Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Voting Duration
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:05:09 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" germa--------s@-------- >
> Salve!
>
> While we are talking about the upcoming magisterial elections in December, I
> thought I'd also ask if folks had any thoughts on the duration of the
> smaller votes that are called throughout the year. Recently, these have been
> changes to the constitution, but they could also be laws presented to one of
> the assemblies. I think we've pretty well determined that we don't need
> fifteen days for an email-capable vote, and I think that, at least for these
> sorts of votes, email voting should be sufficient (with allowances for our
> one or two non-email-capable Citizens, of course).
>
> Do you think that five days would be good for such votes? Three? I don't
> think I'd want to make it any shorter than that; not everyone checks their
> email thirty times a day like I do...
>
> Any thoughts?

I would say at least a week, nothing less.

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Voting Duration
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:07:17 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Claudia Aprica wrote:

> From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>
> Salvete!
> Personally, I think more like about seven days should be allowed
> for voting, so that people have a few days to find the mail, plus a
> little time to think as well. I don't think people should be made to
> feel rushed when voting for things, even if they're only relatively
> small matters, and I imagine most people wouldn't want to reply
> straight away to a voting message, but would prefer to have a chance
> to print it out, read it through properly and sleep on it first.
> Valete,
> Aprica.

I agree. I actually had nothing wrong with a full 2 week period but I
suppose I could live with having it shortened to a week.

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Voting Duration
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:13:59 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 7 Aug 1998 legion6@-------- wrote:

> From: legion6@--------
>
> Salve, Magister:
>
> I do not believe the time given for voting should be any less than an
> eight-day (one market-interval). I have recently seen some votes
> flying past me at supersonic speeds, touching down in my Inbox just
> long enough to refuel and then continuing on their relentless
> migration...the term 'railroading' comes to mind, except that the via
> ferrea is not nearly as fast as these votes!

While I do not want to greatly shorten the voting period, I want to point
out that I don't think any vote has been "railroaded" or pushed through
ahead of schedule. Why would that term come to mind?

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Official Languages
From:
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:36:11 -0400

Salvete Omnes Cives!

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus, hereby call the Comitia Populi to order.

Due to the increasing "international" membership of Nova Roma the time has come
to establish official protocols. To this end it is put forth to the Comitia
Populi, that to maintain organized, efficient communications within Nova Roma
official business be conducted in either Latin and/or English. Therefore I
propose the following becomes law.

"All official business shall be conducted in either Latin and/or English."

This law in No way precludes the translation of ALL business into any language
necessary for complete communication.

All citizens are asked to cast their vote Yes or No for this proposed law. When
voti--------either se--------mail to both Ce--------s(ce--------s@--------) with your vote
(please include the word "Vote" in the subject line) or send your vote to the
Office of the Censors, PO Box 1688, Morristown, NJ 07962, no lator than a.d.Xiii
Kal. September(8/20/98)

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:37:04 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 12:47:51 EDT, you write:

<< Why not have it require that all business be conducted in Latin AND
English, the way it's done in Canada where everything has to be done in
both national languages? >>

I can support that.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:36:16 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 12:36:35 EDT, you write:

<< In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus, hereby call the Comitia Populi to order.

Due to the increasing "international" membership of Nova Roma the time has
come to establish official protocols. To this end it is put forth to the
Comitia Populi, that to maintain organized, efficient communications within
Nova Roma official business be conducted in either Latin and/or English.
Therefore I propose the following becomes law.

"All official business shall be conducted in either Latin and/or English."
>>

I would motion to establish English as the official language of business for
all political, economic, and other articles deamed vital in Nova Roman
communications while Latin be reserved for cultural applications (with English
translations corresponding). There are not many citizens here who speak Latin
while even those who do are not fluent (at least to my knowledge). It seems
that all current citizens have a strong command of the English Language as
they would not have been able to apply for citizenship if they had not.

My 2 cents...

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Sun, 09 Aug 1998 14:58:39 PDT

>Salvete Omnes Cives!
>
>In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Equitius =
>Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus, hereby call the Comitia Populi to order.
>
>Due to the increasing "international" membership of Nova Roma the time
=
>has come to establish official protocols. To this end it is put forth
to =
>the Comitia Populi, that to maintain organized, efficient
communications =
>within Nova Roma official business be conducted in either Latin and/or
=
>English. Therefore I propose the following becomes law.
>
>"All official business shall be conducted in either Latin and/or =
>English."
>
>This law in No way precludes the translation of ALL business into any =
>language necessary for complete communication.
>
>All citizens are asked to cast their vote Yes or No for this proposed =
>law. When voting, either send email to both =

>Ce--------s(ce--------s@--------) with your vote (please i--------de the word = >"Vote" in the subject line) or send your vote to the Office of the =
>Censors, PO Box 1688, Morristown, NJ 07962, no lator than a.d.Xiii Kal.
=
>September(8/20/98)
>
>Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

I'd like to discuss this before I vote. Does this mean that official
communications can occur in Latin with no English translation? My
Latin's improving, but not that much, and it's not fair to require those
who don't have a head for languages to pick up another one.

I suggest you amend the bill to permit official communication either in
English, or in Latin with an English translation. Why english? Because
(1) most of our citizens are from English-speaking areas and (2) Basic
English is a commonly known second language in those areas that are not
English speaking.

--M. Gladius Saevus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:59:19 EDT

I have no objection to the proposed law:"All official business shall be
conducted in either Latin and/or English." although I think the phrasing is a
little awkward. The sentence means that official business shall be conducted
in either Latin and English or in English. That makes English the required
language and Latin the optional language. Is that the intention of the law ?
I don't think that we are ready yet to make Latin a requirement for official
business, but that might be a goal to work towards. Who is going to translate
the Constitution and Senatus Consulta ? And who is going to check the
translation for accuracy ? We have a long way to go before Latin can be a
requirement for anything.
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:17:56 -0400 (EDT)

>I would motion to establish English as the official language of business for
>all political, economic, and other articles deamed vital in Nova Roman
>communications while Latin be reserved for cultural applications (with English
>translations corresponding).

I'm with Dex here - while learning Latin is a goal worth working toward
(any volunteers for online classes?), most of us simply don't have the time
if we're holding down jobs, participating in social life and working on
other aspects of this organization.

Patricia Cassia

"Men are from earth. Women are from earth. Deal with it."


Subject:	Attention Nova Britannia
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:51:11 -0400 (EDT)

Cassius and I were talking this weekend about an idea Pythia suggested a
few weeks ago - a New England Provincia outing to the Museum of Fine Arts
in Boston. If you're interested, please e-mail me and suggest a few days
you might be available. We'd probably do it on a Saturday, sometime after
Labor Day.

Also, Cassius and I are performing an open ritual in honor of the
Celto-Roman divine pair of Mercury and Rosmerta, on Saturday, Sept. 5 in
Wells, Maine. You need to preregister if you're attending; again, e-mail me
if you're interested.

Patricia Cassia


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Robert Woolwine" Alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:00:45 -0700

I have already voted against the measure. Becuase we are such a new
organization, it is premature at this juncture to limit ourselves.
Remember, the Roman Civilization brought people together. It did not
separate them. We need to follow that cred. Rome sought to bring together
the elements of other civilizations and we need to do the same.


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:12:39 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 21:03:15 EDT, you write:

<< Remember, the Roman Civilization brought people together. It did not
separate them. We need to follow that cred. Rome sought to bring together
the elements of other civilizations and we need to do the same. >>

This is true but there were official languages. And I do foresee the need to
establish a standard. My hesitation with the proposed amendment is making
Latin an official language. Most citizens do not speak it and it would be
seperatist to make it an official language when it is only understood by a
few. English, however, seems to be an established standard throughout the
world and I have not seen any citizens currently displaying trouble with the
language.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Mike" vergil@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:51:51 -0400

>>I would motion to establish English as the official language of business
for
>>all political, economic, and other articles deamed vital in Nova Roman
>>communications while Latin be reserved for cultural applications (with
English
>>translations corresponding).
>
>I'm with Dex here - while learning Latin is a goal worth working toward
>(any volunteers for online classes?), most of us simply don't have the time
>if we're holding down jobs, participating in social life and working on
>other aspects of this organization.
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
Salvete

I really don't see what the misunderstanding is all about. There is no
requirement to learn Latin. We will have the choice of either Latin or
English or both! Also, whatever needs to be translated into Greek, for
example, that too can be done.
I was thinking that English would be used for most everything and Latin
for Religious and other "special" things!
I was hoping that things would proceed basically the same as they have
been. Just making it "official":>)

Valete L Equitius


Subject:	Official Language
From:	"vergil" vergil@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:05:22 -0400


Subject:	American Heart Association
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:17:26 EDT

Salve Omnes,

On Sunday October 4, I will be walking for the American Heart Association with
a few of my fellow employees at ADP. The walk is to raise money to fight
heart disease and strokes. I'm sure I don't have to go into the importance of
research on these two deadly diseases or that heart disease and stroke are the
2nd and 3rd leading 'cause of death in the U.S. I am, however, looking for
sponsors for my walk. My goal is to raise $100 for the American Heart
Association.

If --------ne would c--------to m----------------edge, ple--------e-m--------me --------exippus@--------
with your committment (please include the amount you wish to pledge) and an
address and phone number (it's required by the AHA). I vow to wear my Nova
Roman t-shirt to the walk if fellow citizens sponsor my walk. I think it
would be good P.R.

Thanks in advance for your kind support.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:20:13 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 21:16:29 EDT, you write:

<< I really don't see what the misunderstanding is all about. There is no
requirement to learn Latin. We will have the choice of either Latin or
English or both! Also, whatever needs to be translated into Greek, for
example, that too can be done.
I was thinking that English would be used for most everything and Latin
for Religious and other "special" things!
I was hoping that things would proceed basically the same as they have
been. Just making it "official":>)
>>

There is nothing wrong with your suggestion, just it's wording. We need to be
very careful with how we "spell things out" in the constitution. Someone
sometime in the future may decide that since Latin is "an" official language,
then tough cookies on those who can't read or understand it.

I understood the spirit of the proposal, but the wording should be clear that,
in the least, english translations will accompany any and all Nova Roman
communications.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Colleges of Pontiffs
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Sun, 09 Aug 1998 18:23:10 -0700

Cassius, in the Senatus Consulta site, put forward some names of people
to be enlisted into the pontiff college, saying that they wee "Pagan
citizens that seem to have the greatest knowledge of Religio Romana, and
who have been practicing for the longest amount of time."
Souunds good, but could you enlarge upon your statement? I would like
to know. And "longest" is a realtive term. No?

Ericius


Subject:	Comitia Populi Voting Procedures
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:33:46 -0400

Salvete!

Before this gets too far, I would like to comment on the mechanics involved in
the voting by the Comitia Populi, to which the recent bill on establishing
official languages has been referred.

According to the Constitution, the Comitia Populi "...shall be made up of thirty
tribes, the composition of which shall be determined by the Censors, but shall
be made up of all Citizens of Nova Roma, regardless of class. Each tribe shall
elect one of its members to speak for it in those matters that shall be refered
to the comitia populi; such speakers shall be appointed for life."

Thus, Citizens as a whole don't vote in the Comitia Populi. Only those 30
speakers of the tribes vote on bills, and so far, those 30 speakers have yet to
be elected. The original plan was to hold those elections along with the
magisterial elections in December, but now that the matter has come up, we
should doubtless get them elected.

I respectfully ask our good Praetor Urbanis to withdrawl his bill from
consideration, pending the election of the speakers of the tribes of the Comitia
Populi, to take place as soon as practical.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Consul and Censor
-----Original Message-----
From: Mik--------rgil@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 12:36 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Official Languages

Salvete Omnes Cives!

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus, hereby call the Comitia Populi to order.

Due to the increasing "international" membership of Nova Roma the time has
come to establish official protocols. To this end it is put forth to the Comitia
Populi, that to maintain organized, efficient communications within Nova Roma
official business be conducted in either Latin and/or English. Therefore I
propose the following becomes law.

"All official business shall be conducted in either Latin and/or English."

This law in No way precludes the translation of ALL business into any
language necessary for complete communication.

All citizens are asked to cast their vote Yes or No for this proposed law.
Whe--------ti--------either se--------mail to both Ce--------s(ce--------s@--------) with your
vote (please include the word "Vote" in the subject line) or send your vote to
the Office of the Censors, PO Box 1688, Morristown, NJ 07962, no lator than
a.d.Xiii Kal. September(8/20/98)

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: Comitia Populi Voting Procedures
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Sun, 09 Aug 1998 18:37:53 -0700

Sounds good, Vedius. I'd like to hear/see the NR tribal plan.

Gratius et
Vale

Ericius


Subject:	Provincial Governor Titles
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:39:18 -0400

Salvete!

The Senate recently passed a Senatus Consultim to standardize the Latin
titles for provincial governors and other provincial magistrates. The system
can be found in a few places on the web site, but the basic nomenclature is
now:

Consuls (elected magistrates in charge of a province).
Proconsuls (for Consuls whose governorship of their province is extended
past the duration of their office-- none yet).
Praetors (appointed magistrates in charge of a province).
Propraetors (for Praetors whose governorship of their provicne is extended
past the duration of their office-- none yet).

Basically, most of the governors are now properly titled Praetors, and come
next year will be titled Propraetors, assuming they stay in their position.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Consul

Nova Roma
Post Office Box 1688
Morristown, NJ 07962
www.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:49:17 -0400

>>"All official business shall be conducted in either Latin and/or =
>>English."
>>
>>This law in No way precludes the translation of ALL business into any =
>>language necessary for complete communication.
>>
>>Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>

>I'd like to discuss this before I vote. Does this mean that official
>communications can occur in Latin with no English translation?

Yes, but why would we do this? My own Latin is still basic.

> My Latin's improving, but not that much, and it's not fair to require
those
>who don't have a head for languages to pick up another one.

There are already many things posted in the Nova Roma website in Latin and
also the English is there.

>I suggest you amend the bill to permit official communication <<<either
>>>in
>English,<< or >>in Latin with an English translation.

It already says: "in EITHER Latin AND/OR English"

> Why english? Because
>(1) most of our citizens are from English-speaking areas and (2) Basic
>English is a commonly known second language in those areas that are not
>English speaking. --M. Gladius Saevus

Yes, this is True.

BTW this proposal is NOT a constitutional amendment.

Valete L Equitius


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:31:14 PDT

>In a message dated 98-08-09 21:03:15 EDT, you write:
>
><< Remember, the Roman Civilization brought people together. It did
not
> separate them. We need to follow that cred. Rome sought to bring
together
> the elements of other civilizations and we need to do the same. >>
>
>
>This is true but there were official languages. And I do foresee the
need to
>establish a standard. My hesitation with the proposed amendment is
making
>Latin an official language. Most citizens do not speak it and it would
be
>seperatist to make it an official language when it is only understood
by a
>few. English, however, seems to be an established standard throughout
the
>world and I have not seen any citizens currently displaying trouble
with the
>language.
>
>--Dexippus

Seems to me would be wiser to make Latin an official ceremonial language
-- used for oaths of office, national anthems, things like that -- and
make English the official business language. After all -- Latin's a
dead language, and Nova Roma's a living nation.

--M. Gladius Saevus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:38:42 PDT

>
>>I suggest you amend the bill to permit official communication
<<<either
>>>>in
>>English,<< or >>in Latin with an English translation.
>
>It already says: "in EITHER Latin AND/OR English"

Right. Which means, "in Latin, in English, or in English and Latin."
Three choices. And I can see the day four hundred years from now when
some smart-ass politician is going to submit a bill in Latin and insist
on discussion and a vote, and no one is going to have any idea what the
hell the damn thing is about.

The language of the bill isn't clear. Clear language is the foundation
of clear reasoning, which is the foundation of good government. The
intentions of the bill's author do not come into play -- what the bill
says comes into play.

But the argument is moot, since as Germanicus points out, we've yet to
elect the heads of those thirty tribes.

--M. Gladius Saevus