Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 03:02:37 -0400 (EDT)

On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Patrick Dunn wrote:

> From: "Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------

> Seems to me would be wiser to make Latin an official ceremonial language
> -- used for oaths of office, national anthems, things like that -- and
> make English the official business language. After all -- Latin's a
> dead language, and Nova Roma's a living nation.

An excellent point. I think Latin should be *the* ceremonial language but
the official language of business should be English. There could be Latin
translations but it should be primarily in English, which is the
international language.

Personally, with all due respect to my fellow Praetor Urbanis, I don't
think this needs to be written into law at this time (and as Flavius
Vedius has pointed out, cannot be done yet in the Comitia Populi).
However, if people feel strongly about having this stated officially
I think that perhaps a policy statement in the form of a Senatus Consultum
would be more appropriate as it would avoid the odium of writing this into
law and possibly alienating those whose native tongue is not English.

D. Iunius Palladius

Senator, Praetor Urbanis

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Colleges of Pontiffs
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:16:45 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 21:23:21 EDT, you write:

<<
Cassius, in the Senatus Consulta site, put forward some names of people
to be enlisted into the pontiff college, saying that they wee "Pagan
citizens that seem to have the greatest knowledge of Religio Romana, and
who have been practicing for the longest amount of time."
Souunds good, but could you enlarge upon your statement?

I'm not really quite sure how to enlarge upon that statement, I'm afraid! The
constitution provides the possibility for 15 members of the Pontificial
College. The first people I've proposed are folks that have been best known by
the Senate as being knowledgeable in the field of Religio Romana, and who have
been practicing the religious path on their own before Nova Roma was created
and started to be a focus for Roman worship.

>I would like
to know. And "longest" is a realtive term. No?

No, not really. Starting the Pontificial College with folks that have been
involved with Religio Romana before there even WAS a Nova Roma seems like a
good way to set a firm foundation. There are of course *many* Citizens who are
practicing Pagans and who have a wonderful amount of knowledge... and no doubt
several of those folks will be added into the Pontifical College as their
talents become known. In the meantime, starting with individuals who helped
build Nova Roma from the idea stage into something real seems like a rational
beginning.

Vale,

Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages AND Comitia Voting
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:08:43 -0400

>
>> Seems to me would be wiser to make Latin an official ceremonial language
>> -- used for oaths of office, national anthems, things like that -- and
>> make English the official business language. After all -- Latin's a
>> dead language, and Nova Roma's a living nation.
>
>Personally, with all due respect to my fellow Praetor Urbanis, I don't
>think this needs to be written into law at this time (and as Flavius
>Vedius has pointed out, cannot be done yet in the Comitia Populi).
>However, if people feel strongly about having this stated officially
>I think that perhaps a policy statement in the form of a Senatus Consultum
>would be more appropriate as it would avoid the odium of writing this into
>law and possibly alienating those whose native tongue is not English.
>D. Iunius Palladius,Senator, Praetor Urbanis

Savete Omnes

OK! I went to BOTH Consuls Privately and in Good Faith Before I Made
This Proposal. Both of Them Agreed and Endorsed It.
I wrote it in the simplest terms possible which left room for broad
interpretation on it's use.
NOW, as far as comitia voting is concerned the recent vote to change
the constitution was called under the Comitia Centuriata, Which does not
exist EITHER, So that vote is invalid, No?
If I seem upset well I am! I have made objections Privately in the
past based on constitutional grounds that were ignored! Now I make a
proposal and I get the Constitution thrown in my FACE Publicly!

Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:14:04 -0500 (CDT)

>After all -- Latin's a dead language, and Nova Roma's a living nation.

Latin a dead language? This was the last group of people I ever
thought I'd hear *that* from. Are we not about reviving/resurrecting
an entire culture and way of life that has been considered 'dead' for
over 1500 years? Why should the language which expresses that culture
be any exception? I am a very new citizen of Nova Roma, but I have
been personally living a 'Roman Way' for over seven years, and my
friends can vouch for that Latin is *quite* lively anywhere within a
50' radius of me!

Sharing, as it does, roots and grammatical structure with the Romance
languages that are descended from it, I think Latin would actually be
easier for many (if not most) Western Europeans to pick up than would
English. (Not to mention a sizeable Hispanic contingent in the
Americas!)

I like the thought, elsewhere expressed, that we can use Latin to the
extent made possible by our knowledge of it; i.e., very few of us (even
me) would be ready to go whole-hog with it right now, but we can work
towards that ability and that possibility.

English -or- Latin with English translation would work for me.
--- ***Note new E-mail address!!***
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Official Languages AND Comitia Voting
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:53:32 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-10 11:09:17 EDT, L Equitius Cincinnatus writes:

<< OK! I went to BOTH Consuls Privately and in Good Faith Before I Made
This Proposal. Both of Them Agreed and Endorsed It.
I wrote it in the simplest terms possible which left room for broad
interpretation on it's use.
NOW, as far as comitia voting is concerned the recent vote to change
the constitution was called under the Comitia Centuriata, Which does not
exist EITHER, So that vote is invalid, No?
If I seem upset well I am! I have made objections Privately in the
past based on constitutional grounds that were ignored! Now I make a
proposal and I get the Constitution thrown in my FACE Publicly!
>>

Ouch! Lucius certainly DID come to me with this proposal, and I thought it was
a fine idea, and still do! Since Nova Roma is involved with reviving Classical
Roman culture, it only makes sense that Latin be included as an official
language. I say that as someone who's command of Latin is VERY poor... I
certainly can't use Latin much myself, but definitely feel it needs to be
included within Nova Roma as possible.

It happens that most of the people involved with Nova Roma speak English, and
it's also sensible to include it as our "common" language. This does NOT mean
that we should exclude other languages, or the people who speak them by any
means! We simply need to make ourselves accessable without losing a basic
focus.

As far as the Constitution thing, I don't think that anyone was trying to
cause any trouble or insult. We simply need to arrange the Centuries for
proper voting.

I believe we should do the Official Language vote before we re-arrange the
voting process. Lucius is absolutely correct that if we could have one vote as
things stand, we can do another. However... after this vote our next priority
should be to arrange the voting process along more historical lines.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul


Subject:	Re: Official Languages AND Comitia Voting
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:26:17 -0400

Salvete

> NOW, as far as comitia voting is concerned the recent vote to change
> the constitution was called under the Comitia Centuriata, Which does not
> exist EITHER, Now I make a
> proposal and I get the Constitution thrown in my FACE Publicly!
> >>
>Ouch! Lucius certainly DID come to me with this proposal, and I thought it
was
>a fine idea, and still do! <snip>but definitely feel it needs to be
>included within Nova Roma as possible.
>
>It happens that most of the people involved with Nova Roma speak English,
and
>it's also sensible to include it as our "common" language. This does NOT
mean
>that we should exclude other languages, or the people who speak them by any
>means! We simply need to make ourselves accessable without losing a basic
>focus.
>
Yes, exclusion is not the point at all!

>As far as the Constitution thing, I don't think that anyone was trying to
>cause any trouble or insult. We simply need to arrange the Centuries for
>proper voting.
>
Again, yes ( another thing to be ironed out.)

>I believe we should do the Official Language vote before we re-arrange the
>voting process. Lucius is absolutely correct that if we could have one vote
as
>things stand, we can do another. However... after this vote our next
priority
>should be to arrange the voting process along more historical lines.
>Valete, Marcus Cassius Julianus
>Consul
>
Good, now I think we are getting somewhere. I am waiting for
Germanicus to get back to me with some information before I proceed.
Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	Re: Comitia Populi Voting Procedures
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:24:19 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-09 21:34:09 EDT, you write:

<< I respectfully ask our good Praetor Urbanis to withdrawl his bill from
consideration, pending the election of the speakers of the tribes of the
Comitia Populi, to take place as soon as practical. >>

I can support that.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Colleges of Pontiffs
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:23:22 EDT


Subject:	Re: Colleges of Pontiffs
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:30:47 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-10 10:17:20 EDT, you write:

<< The first people I've proposed are folks that have been best known by
the Senate as being knowledgeable in the field of Religio Romana, and who
have
been practicing the religious path on their own before Nova Roma was created
and started to be a focus for Roman worship. >>

I can support that. But I think if we are going to nominate based upon
practice, it should be made clear in exactly what form that practice has taken
place.

--Dexippus
<<sorry, don't mean to be a hard ass about this...just having bad catechism
flashbacks>>


Subject:	Re: Official Languages AND Comitia Voting
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:33:10 EDT

In a message dated 98-08-10 11:09:16 EDT, you write:

<< If I seem upset well I am! I have made objections Privately in the
past based on constitutional grounds that were ignored! Now I make a
proposal and I get the Constitution thrown in my FACE Publicly! >>

Oooo! Take a chill pill!

But I can understand your frustration. Personally, I don't believe we should
wait for a tribal vote (or whatever it's called)...I was under the impression
that we'd be voting on it as we have voted on issues in the past. But
again...my knowledge of Roman Politics is a bit slim.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Official Languages AND Comitia Voting
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:28:31 -0700

Salus et Fortuna, L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus, et alia;

I understood your proposal perfectly well. I voted in favor. I have
been in on the formative stages of several organizations in the past.
There are always roughshod growing pains.

By all rights, I should have voted against the Latin, as I am a Citizen
from the wilderlands to the north of Germania and English only should be
my preference.

I voted in favor of "Latin and/or English" because I believe that we can
be adult and agree on the proper circumstances for one, the other or
both.

Latin is not actually a dead language as one correspondant stated, it
has largely become embedded in English, Italian, Romanian, Spanish,
etc... It is in disuse as a stand alone language, except amongst
scholars and conservative clerics, but can be very useful to us as Nova
Roman Citizens (yes, even us naturalized Barbarians) for cultural and
litugical purposes. English is a de facto international language of
industry, commerce, science and air traffic control.

I think that, from observing their writing, our Citizens from the
non-English as a first language world have as good as or better a grasp
of the language than many Americans of my acquaintence.

This should be a non-issue, as the proposal only formalizes what I see
in the Nova Roma site and the applicable posts.

I shall descend the Rostrum now, who's next?

Valete

S. Ullerius Venator

aka Steven Ullrsson, Asatruar, Brewer, Gourmet and Smith :{)