Forum Romanum


Subject:	This is so quiet...
From:	"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:57:12 +0100


Subject:	Re: This is so quiet...
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:50:33 EDT

In a message dated 98-09-03 13:55:25 EDT, you write:

<< Subj: [novaroma] This is so quiet...
Date: 98-09-03 13:55:25 EDT
From: amg@-------- (Antonio M. R. C. Grilo)
Reply-to: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>

From: "Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
>>

LOL! It's perhaps the worst time of year for anything on the Internet, since
it's "Back to school" time! Things will pick up after Labor Day Weekend.

In the meantime I'll happily start a new topic... does anyone else out there
think "The History Channel" does an absolutely crappy job on anything dealing
with ancient Rome? Every show I've seen them do so far has been completely
negative!

Vale,

Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: This is so quiet...
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:39:41 PDT

I know for my part it's the back to school insanity. I barely have time
lately to check my email; but that'll change as soon as I can nurse
those 25 freshmen under my care through the pains of composition.

--M. Gladius Saevus


Subject:	Re: This is so quiet...
From:	Masterofhistory masterofhistory@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT)

I caught these messages on my way out of town. Labor Day is usually a
big vacation time and I'm off now on my own "Walking Into Everywhere"
tour.

To help Cassius with his topic, I would have to add that not only
History channel but Discovery and The Learning Channels also have all
around poor quality history programming. Ancient topics are even
worse, usually revolving around Atlantis or Space aliens and their
pyramids. The notable exception I saw recently was John Keegan's
program A History of Warfare (I think that's it). While taking a
standard approach to the development of the Roman Empire and her
military might, he stuck to the facts of the matter, something these
channels, in my opinion often neglect.

Fortuna faveat vobis; Mercurius faveat mihi,
Avidius Tullius Qf Callidus, Feriator
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia


Subject:	Afranius Siagrius
From:	"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:32:13 +0100

Salve omnes!

Although it falls a little outside the pagan period of Rome, I have always
been interested of the last moments of the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Although the official date for its fall is 476 AD, there is another
important date that have been forgotten by most historians. Maybe because
unlike me (and I'm sure many of you), when they read or write the history
book, they don't feel that burning hope that at the end of the chapter, the
Roman Empire will always last one more minute.
The date I am talking about is 486 AD. After the child Emperor Romulus
Augustulus was deposed by Odoacre, one governor in Gaul whose name was
Afranius Siagrius, still resisted the barbarian wave. He governed his
territory until 486, when he was finally defeated and killed by the Francs
of Clovis, and I think it was near Soissons.
Anyone can tell anything more about this last Western Roman governor?

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)


Subject:	History Channel
From:	pallasathene@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:15:28 -0400 (EDT)

Salve!

SVVBE

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree (after all, that is my gens name) with Cassius on his opnion. I exspect it to be negative, but for some reason, I still feel compelled to watch it anyway! Besides, I can't even remember the last I even learned anything watching those documentaries! The same few subjects are dicussed frequently. Oh, well, at least they're covering Rome to begin with. I'm done venting now. Next!

Minervina Iucundia Flavia, Materfamilias
Praetor of SE USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------\r\nGet your free email from altavista.iname.com


Subject:	Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:25:23 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete, omnes!
I just had a really unpleasant being-slagged-off-for-being-a-pagan
experience, which was also very frustrating, because it happened in a
situation where I couldn't argue back or defend myself. So, I am just
going to have to pour it all out to you guys instead, where I know at
least you'll understand.
Basically, what happened is that I'd gone to the pub with a load of
other people from the dig I'm on at the moment, and we were having a
pleasant, sociable evening, mainly joking about the dig and the people
on the team. One girl had asked me about Nova Roma earlier in the day,
and wanted a flyer so she could check out the web-site and see what
I'd been talking about, so after a while I pulled one I'd brought
along out of my pocket and gave it to her. She said thanks, and went
off to buy a drink, whereupon a friend of hers who'd come along, and I
hadn't met before this evening, picked up the flyer, read it, and
started laying into it.
It was clear from the start that I wasn't going to get a chance to
respond to his jeering - after all, I was in a pub amongst people who
were trying to enjoy a pleasant drink, and I didn't even know this guy
anyway. He wanted to know where Christians fitted in with the idea of
restoring ancient Rome, and kept saying that if we were going to
restore any state, surely we could find a better one than _Rome_! It
was made clear that he was a full-on Christian, and in his view, the
Roman empire was evil, and the enemy of Christianity.
I put up with this much, keeping quiet and trying to maintain my
dignity. However, he continued. 'I mean', he said 'this Roman thing is
only one step away from all that weird Norse Oden stuff. And that,' he
continued, 'is only one step away from joining the National Socialist
party and waving your fasces'.
I'm not making this up here - these are direct quotes from this guy,
word for word. The bottom line was basically that he was a Christian,
and therefore clearly in the right about everything, and I was a
minority, and therefore clearly a weirdo and a crank. I could see
there was no point arguing with someone whose 'views' were as carved
in stone as his, so I just made my excuses and left the pub.
But now I am just fuming about the whole experience! What gave him
the right to be so self-satisfied, righteous and complacent? I really
don't care what people's religious beliefs are, as I believe that's an
entirely personal thing which is pretty much irrelevant to anyone
other than the person concerned. But I have just met one too many
Christians like this guy - people who just assume that they have the
right indiscriminately to slag off anyone else who doesn't happen to
subscribe to the exact same views as they do, and call them a crank in
public, in a tone of voice which makes it clear that there's not even
any point in arguing. I could have tried to explain, calmly and
politely, what Roman paganism actually means to me, and why I feel it
works for me. But what is the point with a person like that? He wasn't
going to listen, and I would have just got even more angry than I
already am.
I guess that's just one of the perils of publicly experssing pagan
beliefs (or even hinting at them - all I did was hand over a flyer,
for Hercules' sake!). There's no hope of ever getting through to
people like that, but I just had to express somewhere my utter disgust
at his anti-social behaviour, and the fact that I'm really upset about
it. I don't want to open up that whole Pagan vs. Christian can of
worms again, as I thought that was a bit over the top in itself. But
why should we put up with being slagged off, when people like him seem
to think they have the right to just go round the place, completely
unchallenged, while they proclaim the superiority of their religion?
Simply, grrrrrr!
Sorry for the rant, everyone!
Vale,
A somewhat calmer Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:54:48 -0400

>From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>
>Salvete, omnes!
> I just had a really unpleasant being-slagged-off-for-being-a-pagan
>experience, which was also very frustrating, because it happened in a
>situation where I couldn't argue back or defend myself. So, I am just
>going to have to pour it all out to you guys instead, where I know at
>least you'll understand.
< A very large Snip>

> Simply, grrrrrr!
> Sorry for the rant, everyone!
> Vale,
> A somewhat calmer Aprica.

Dear Aprica
My sympathies. However, You showed great dignitas. I am proud to
have someone like you as a fellow cives!
I have a saying for you when caught in stitutations like this one.
"Never wrestle with a PIG in the mud, you only get muddy and the Pig
loves it."
You are correct, He would/did not care to have a discussion to
possibly learn something because HE THINKS he knows it all already.
Vale L Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: History Channel
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:01:01 EDT

Salvete,
I agree, History and Learning Channel programs about ancient cultures range
from bad to really bad. I can watch one of these shows for about ten minutes
and then I want to throw something at the TV. Ancient Rome in particular
seems to be singled out for negative treatment. So, are there any good
programs out there ? I thought that the Michael Wood series "In the Footsteps
of Alexander the Great" was good. He also had a series "In Search of the
Trojan War" about ten years ago which I thought was very good. I wish that he
would do something like "In the Footsteps of Hadrian" - a tour of the Empire
at its height, following the course of the Emperor's travels. Wishful
thinking, I know.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:43:54 -0700

Dear Claudia,

I too, think you acted with great dignity. Bear in mind that your actions will
do nothing but reflect well on you, while he will be remembered as a nasty
piece of work. Its not what you say but how you act. I once read an article
that said Hellenism is a religion of orthopraxy, actions, rather than
orthodoxy, words. Keep yer pecker up Aprica! We are all on your team!!

Best,
Pythia
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:

Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:10:22 -0400 (EDT)

> I guess that's just one of the perils of publicly experssing pagan
>beliefs (or even hinting at them - all I did was hand over a flyer,
>for Hercules' sake!).

Feel free to vent! Unfortunately those types are going to be the same no
matter what we do. However, if anyone listening was of a more tolerant
mind, this guy's rant probably IMPROVED the bystanders' view of Paganism!

Next time, buy him a glass of wine, give him a big smile and tell him who
brought it to England...

with sympathy, Patricia Sassia (That was a typo but it was kind of cute so
I left it ...)


Subject:	Re: History Channel
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:43:21 -0400

>
>Salvete,
>I agree, History and Learning Channel programs about ancient cultures range
>from bad to really bad. I can watch one of these shows for about ten
minutes
>and then I want to throw something at the TV. Ancient Rome in particular
>seems to be singled out for negative treatment. I wish that he
>would do something like "In the Footsteps of Hadrian" - a tour of the
Empire
>at its height, following the course of the Emperor's travels. Wishful
>thinking, I know.
>Valete,
>Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
>
Salvete
I agree completely. It all seems so typical of today's need to be
sensational about everything as if the truth were insufficient. Or like that
now famous quote " You can't handle the truth!"
I really like the idea of "In the Footsteps of Hadrian". Who knows with
the renewed interest in Classical civilization we will get more and better
programs. Maybe we should write to these channels and make our feelings
known.
Valete L Equitius


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:43:45 EDT

Salve,
You have my sympathy, Claudia Aprica. I know exactly how you feel. It is so
frustrating when these situations suddenly arise - and yet the only thing to
do is to do nothing and walk away from it.
Vale,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! & History channel
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:57:09 -0700

It is connected you know.

Aprica, always know that I we are with you. That type of person,
and I'v also found a number that weren't Christian, simply obnoxious
yahoos, are probably best dealt with the way you did it. Too bad it
raises the blood p[ressure and aggravates the ulcers. (Though I must
confess to thinking of anthills. :-] ) I have found that I just
can not bring my self to come out and tell outsiders what I am. Of
course
the yahoos are ever obnoxious. I get riled up when they turn their
persecution rays on others who do not fit into their Paradise.

Keep your armour on, and your weapons sharp. But keep them sheathed.

Bene Vale
Ericius


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! & History channel
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:50:09 EDT

In a message dated 98-09-03 20:57:59 EDT, you write:

<< I have found that I just
can not bring my self to come out and tell outsiders what I am. Of
course
the yahoos are ever obnoxious. I get riled up when they turn their
persecution rays on others who do not fit into their Paradise. >>

Well...no one can force your or anyone out of the "closet". It must be an
individual's choice. For me, coming out of one closet made it all the more
easier to come out of them all. I don't hold back and I don't pretend to be
something I'm not.

Gay? Yeah! Pagan? Yeah! Don't like it? Hit the road, Jack! : )
(this is a generalization...I'm not speaking to anyone - especially you
Ericius - personally)

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:58:30 -0500 (CDT)

True that there was probably nothing you could have said or done
to change that persons opinion. The fact being that some people feel
directly intimidated by the possibility of any other belief other than
their own being valid. Narrow-minded fanaticism is all around us all the
time. That's why there are religious wars.
Don't even be angry at the man- feel sorry for him and his limited
ability to cope. Pretty much ignoring the guy at the bar was I think the
best way you could have handled it.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus


Subject:	Re: History Channel
From:	"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:11:03 PDT

>Subject: [novaroma] History Channel
>
>From: p--------s--------ne@--------
>
>Salve!
>
>SVVBE
>
>I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree (after all, that is my gens name)
with Cassius on his opnion. I exspect it to be negative, but for some
reason, I still feel compelled to watch it anyway! Besides, I can't
even remember the last I even learned anything watching those
documentaries! The same few subjects are dicussed frequently. Oh, well,
at least they're covering Rome to begin with. I'm done venting now.
Next!
>
>Minervina Iucundia Flavia, Materfamilias
>Praetor of SE USA
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>
Salve, amicae!!

Well, I suppose it should be obvious--after all, these channels
generally pander to the ideal of 'Political Correctness' <ptuh!>;
showing Roma Aeterna as anything but morally backwards would violate
what they're trying to accomplish...

Hmmm......<musing> I wonder what the PC crowd might be afraid of?
That, maybe...juuust maybe, people might start to think for themselves?
My, what a 'reactionary' thought<heheheheh...>

G. Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
>


Subject:	Re: History Channel
From:	"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:23:56 PDT

>Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
>
>From: Oplonti--------...
>
>Salvete,
>I agree, History and Learning Channel programs about ancient cultures
>range from bad to really bad. I can watch one of these shows for
>about ten minutes and then I want to throw something at the TV.
>Ancient Rome in particular seems to be singled out for negative
>treatment. So, are there any good programs out there ? I thought
>that the Michael Wood series "In the Footsteps of Alexander the >Great"
was good. He also had a series "In Search of the Trojan War" >about ten
years ago which I thought was very good. I wish that he
>would do something like "In the Footsteps of Hadrian" - a tour of the
>Empire at its height, following the course of the Emperor's travels. >
Wishful thinking, I know.
>
>Valete,
>Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
Salve,

I have to say, I thought 'In the Footsteps fo Alexander the Great' was
fantastic--except for the very end...Michael Woods really put a damper
on an otherwise fine program by ultimatly 'dissing' 'Big Al'. I must
say, I was quite disappointed.

If anyone is interested, I'll try to transcribe his comments...

Vale,

G. Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
>


Subject:	Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From:	Molly Schneider stormborn@--------
Date:	Thu, 03 Sep 1998 21:22:02 -0700

Salve!

You're right about not bothering to argue with the jerk. It wouldn't
have done any good, in fact, he was probably just spoiling for an
argument. Whenever this happens to me, I just say, "I'm sorry, I don't
discuss religion with people I don't know very well." If they persist,
I say (as calmly as possible--in fact, *deathly* calm), "I don't believe
you have the right to attack my religion and I don't wish to discuss
this with you. Is that clear?"

I do make my stand for my paganism when the opportunity arises, though.
For example, when people start babbling about Christmas or Easter and
try to include me, I tell them that I don't celebrate Christmas (or
whatever). I'm constantly amazed at how many people ask me why! I tell
them, "I'm not a Christian. I'm a Pagan." I never say, 'Thank God,'
but 'Thank Fortuna,' (or the appropriate deity). Et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera . . .

You're on a dig? Too cool! May I ask where?

Vale,

Honoria Lucia
--
Molly/StormBorn
UF/FKPagan/Cousin/NA/Inn-mate
Lucia Furius at Ancientsites
stormborn@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~StormBorn/" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~StormBorn/</a>