| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:39:50 -0700 |
|
michael cessna wrote:
s out there ? I thought
> >that the Michael Wood series "In the Footsteps of Alexander the >Great"
> was good.
> >Valete,
> >Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> Salve,
>
> I have to say, I thought 'In the Footsteps fo Alexander the Great' was
> fantastic--except for the very end...Michael Woods really put a damper
> on an otherwise fine program by ultimatly 'dissing' 'Big Al'. I must
> say, I was quite disappointed.
>
> If anyone is interested, I'll try to transcribe his comments...
>
> Vale,
>
> G. Marius Asiaticus
> >>
> >
> >
>
Yeesh, I hated the Michael Woods Docurubbish on Alexander. I don't think he
spoke to a single person who knew anything. Instead, we got his conjecture,
delivered in his "British Public School" (Which means private for all the
Americans) accent and attitude.
For example "We really have no idea if Alexander stopped here, but can't
you just imagine Alexander....bla bla bla....., and here we are collecting
much needed supplies at the little post office...how quaint..."
Everything from his dissing Israeli border guards, to all the pictures of
him sitting on various ruins irritated me. I wished he spent more time on
some of the really interesting ethnographic stuff, especially the Kalash
tribe in the Hindu-Kush, instead of himself.
Needless to say I was very dissappointed with that particular program.
Pythia
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
SDmtwi@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:32:27 EDT |
|
Salve, Claudia Aprica.
Your experience is one that, sadly, I've shared on a number of occasions.
You have my sympathy. When I'm upset over something, I often turn to the
Meditations of M. Aurelius Antoninus to calm and center myself. Here are some
of my favorite quotes from that work.
"If thou art able, correct by teaching those who do wrong; but if thou canst
not, remember that indulgence is given to thee for this purpose."
"Penetrate inwards into men's leading principles, and thou wilt see what
judges thou art afraid of, and what kind of judges they are of themselves."
"It is thy duty to leave another man's wrongful act there where it is."
"When another blames thee or hates thee, or when men say about thee anything
injurious, approach their poor souls, penetrate within, and see what kind of
men they are. Thou wilt discover that there is no reason to take any trouble
that these men may have this or that opinion about thee. However thou must be
well disposed towards them, for by nature they are friends. And the gods too
aid them in all ways, by dreams, by signs, towards the attainment of those
things on which they set a value."
"He who does wrong does wrong against himself. He who acts unjustly acts
unjustly to himself, because he makes himself bad."
"What are these men's leading principles, and about what kind of things are
they busy, and for what kind of reasons do they love and honour? Imagine that
thou seest their poor souls laid bare. When they think that they do harm by
their blame or good by their praise, what an idea!"
In other words, your antagonist, whether others saw it or not, only proved
what a jerk he was, while you did exactly the right thing. Do right, and be
content in your own virtue.
Vale,
T. Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: This is so quiet... |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:32:04 -0400 |
|
C--------us622@-------- wrote:
>
> From: C--------us622@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-09-03 13:55:25 EDT, you write:
>
> << Subj: [novaroma] This is so quiet...
> Date: 98-09-03 13:55:25 EDT
> From: amg@-------- (Antonio M. R. C. Grilo)
> Reply-to: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>
> From: "Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
> >>
>
> LOL! It's perhaps the worst time of year for anything on the Internet, since
> it's "Back to school" time! Things will pick up after Labor Day Weekend.
>
> In the meantime I'll happily start a new topic... does anyone else out there
> think "The History Channel" does an absolutely crappy job on anything dealing
> with ancient Rome? Every show I've seen them do so far has been completely
> negative!
A&E does a better job, and with more credible scholars. I just wish
History Channel would stop referring to ancient religious rituals as
"spells." Wonder if they'd do the same when referring to
transubstantiation?
F. Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:40:11 -0400 |
|
Claudia Aprica wrote:
>
> But now I am just fuming about the whole experience! What gave him
> the right to be so self-satisfied, righteous and complacent? I really
> don't care what people's religious beliefs are, as I believe that's an
> entirely personal thing which is pretty much irrelevant to anyone
> other than the person concerned.
You're right, and you could have said that -- not that he would have
listened. Get over it and don't upset yourself. What impact does this
jerk have on YOUR life?
Try to remember that the majority of Christians disapprove of guys like
this, and consider them an embarrassment. Anyone who has to build up his
religion at the expense of someone else's has a bigger problem than
merely religious differences.
F. Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:45:35 -0400 |
|
Molly Schneider wrote:
>
>
> You're on a dig? Too cool! May I ask where?
>
Molly's right! We seemed to have overlooked that bit! Please tell us
more about the dig!
- F. Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:38:17 PDT |
|
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
>
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>Yeesh, I hated the Michael Woods Docurubbish on Alexander. I don't
>think he spoke to a single person who knew anything. Instead, we got
>his conjecture, delivered in his "British Public School" (Which means
>private for all the Americans) accent and attitude.
>For example "We really have no idea if Alexander stopped here, but
>can't you just imagine Alexander....bla bla bla....., and here we are
>collecting much needed supplies at the little post office...how
>quaint..."
>
>Everything from his dissing Israeli border guards, to all the >pictures
of him sitting on various ruins irritated me. I wished he >spent more
time on some of the really interesting ethnographic stuff, >especially
the Kalash tribe in the Hindu-Kush, instead of himself.
>
>Needless to say I was very dissappointed with that particular >program.
>
>Pythia
>
>
>>
Salve, Pyhtia,
Yeah, I'd have to say that I agree with you, especially on the
Kalash...I saw something about them on the web the other day...I'll have
to go back and find it.......
Vale,
G. Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! & History channel |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:59:02 +0100 |
|
Salve!
I'm with you too. I know that type of Christians very well. They burned
innocent people alive in Lisbon until the XVIII century, for the shame of
Humankind.
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: R-------- razenna@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 1:58 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! & History channel
>From: R-------- razenna@--------
>
>It is connected you know.
>
>Aprica, always know that I we are with you. That type of person,
>and I'v also found a number that weren't Christian, simply obnoxious
>yahoos, are probably best dealt with the way you did it. Too bad it
>raises the blood p[ressure and aggravates the ulcers. (Though I must
>confess to thinking of anthills. :-] ) I have found that I just
>can not bring my self to come out and tell outsiders what I am. Of
>course
>the yahoos are ever obnoxious. I get riled up when they turn their
>persecution rays on others who do not fit into their Paradise.
>
>Keep your armour on, and your weapons sharp. But keep them sheathed.
>
>Bene Vale
>Ericius
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:03:33 +0100 |
|
Salve!
In case there are more cases of Nazaren persecution, I propose that the
senate of Nova Roma shall postmously vote a list of historic Christian
public enemies of Rome, responsible for the crimes comitted towards the
followers of the Religio Romana in the 3rd, 4th and 5th centuries.
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Troy dean6886@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 2:59 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Grrr! I'm so angry!
From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
True that there was probably nothing you could have said or done
to change that persons opinion. The fact being that some people feel
directly intimidated by the possibility of any other belief other than
their own being valid. Narrow-minded fanaticism is all around us all the
time. That's why there are religious wars.
Don't even be angry at the man- feel sorry for him and his limited
ability to cope. Pretty much ignoring the guy at the bar was I think the
best way you could have handled it.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:48:00 -0700 |
|
>
>
>
> Yeah, I'd have to say that I agree with you, especially on the
> Kalash...I saw something about them on the web the other day...I'll have
> to go back and find it.......
>
> Vale,
>
> G. Marius Asiaticus
> >>
Salve Marius,
If you saw something about the Kalash, it was probably at my site!;)
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp</a>
I have a whole section about them. And if it was not at my site, would you
mind emailing me the link so I can add it? Thanks!
Pythia
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! and I don't like how these posts have tur |
| From: |
Asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:15:40 EDT |
|
In a message dated 98-09-04 06:01:28 EDT, you write:
<< n case there are more cases of Nazaren persecution, I propose that the
senate of Nova Roma shall postmously vote a list of historic Christian
public enemies of Rome, responsible for the crimes comitted towards the
followers of the Religio Romana in the 3rd, 4th and 5th centuries.
>>
Hold on here ,stupity and vulgar behavior is not limited to christains. Ididts
abound in life.I have a physical defect and I can tell you how cruel and nasty
humans can be. But you see that is the key: HUMANS. All sides commit that sin.
Some one else posted that same thought but it has been ignored. I have known
just as many vulgar pagans as I have christians so no one side is with out
blame.
This is like a blade that swing both ways. IF you notice how modern christian
writers view modern pagans you see very much the same worries that the leaders
of Roman voiced. have we learned nothing!
The Nova Roma main web page states that one need not be pagan to belong maybe
"but it helps" should be added.If I was reading our posts for the first time
I would be rethinking belonging. We must remember that the good lady should
have our support but we need not let become a Us vs them.
My thoughts
P. Ancinna Olivia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
Asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:26:57 EDT |
|
In a message dated 98-09-04 00:42:43 EDT, you write:
<< Try to remember that the majority of Christians disapprove of guys like
this, and consider them an embarrassment. Anyone who has to build up his
religion at the expense of someone else's has a bigger problem than
merely religious differences.
F. Claudia >>
what wise words! I wish I had seen this post first but I didn't before I
posted my own frustration.
Olivia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:16:19 -0700 |
|
Salus et Fortuna, Antonius Gryllus Graecus, Salve!
>
> From: "Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salve!
>
> In case there are more cases of Nazaren persecution, I propose that the
> senate of Nova Roma shall postmously vote a list of historic Christian
> public enemies of Rome, responsible for the crimes comitted towards the
> followers of the Religio Romana in the 3rd, 4th and 5th centuries.
>
> Vale!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> (Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
I'll try and find the original reference. Current linguistic advances
indicate that the word was mistranslated to Nazarene (being an indicator
of his possible place of origin) when refering to the eminent Rabbi
Yeshua ben Yusef's religious reform and teaching activities. There are
strong indications that the word should be Nazarite, which was a sect of
Judaism in the time period in question. Samson is also believed to have
been a Nazarite.
Which doesn't negate your call for paying attention to the historical
record of the followers of the "Prince of Peace." My paternal
grandfather's family came to the U.S. because they were ethnic Germans
caught up in the same tragedies which befell their Jewish neighbors
during the Pogroms in Imperial Russia.
I've always found it interesting that "Holy War" didn't occur in Europe
(nor ,seemingly, elswhere for that matter) until the advent of
prostletyzing Middle-Eastern, desert religions. The moral and ethical
lessons are of great value, I just wish these people (like the "Flock"
member in the Public House) would actually listen and act upon the words
of their "Good Shepard."
I do go on sometimes. I might still be a Roman Catholic if the Church
had stayed with the Latin Mass and stayed out of "Liberation Theology."
But...
Fare Thee Well with the Gods, Stay Strong my Friends!
Stephanus Ullerius Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:18:09 EDT |
|
In a message dated 98-09-04 06:01:26 EDT, you write:
<<
In case there are more cases of Nazaren persecution, I propose that the
senate of Nova Roma shall postmously vote a list of historic Christian
public enemies of Rome, responsible for the crimes comitted towards the
followers of the Religio Romana in the 3rd, 4th and 5th centuries.
>>
Oh please, let's not do this! Nova Roma has both Pagan and Christian Citizens,
all who are enthusiasts of Classical Roman culture. We'd do much better to
share our similarities and common interest than deepening any existing
differences.
If I were a Christian citizen, I'd certainly feel badly about this guy being
an idiot in the bar, but I'd be absolutely *shocked* that people would be
proposing creating a big "religious rift" on the official Nova Roma site. This
seems less like "defense against prosecution" (and NO ONE has prosecuted Nova
Roma) and much more like deliberately starting a whole new conflict.
Pax, everyone.
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: Afranius Siagrius |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:21:46 EDT |
|
Salve,
I've never heard of Afranius Siagrius! Can't imagine how this fascinating bit
of history escaped me. I too would love to hear more on the subject. At the
very least, Antonius, could you possibly do a write up on this for "The
Eagle"? I personally have always been interested in the last attempts to hold
on to Classical civilization in the face of "the dark ages"...
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
In a message dated 98-09-03 15:48:50 EDT, Antonius Gryllus Graecus writes:
<<
Although it falls a little outside the pagan period of Rome, I have always
been interested of the last moments of the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Although the official date for its fall is 476 AD, there is another
important date that have been forgotten by most historians. Maybe because
unlike me (and I'm sure many of you), when they read or write the history
book, they don't feel that burning hope that at the end of the chapter, the
Roman Empire will always last one more minute.
The date I am talking about is 486 AD. After the child Emperor Romulus
Augustulus was deposed by Odoacre, one governor in Gaul whose name was
Afranius Siagrius, still resisted the barbarian wave. He governed his
territory until 486, when he was finally defeated and killed by the Francs
of Clovis, and I think it was near Soissons.
Anyone can tell anything more about this last Western Roman governor?
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! and I don't like how these posts have tur |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:43:56 -0700 |
|
Salus et Fortuna P. Assina Olivia, Salve!
>
> From: Asseri@--------
>
> Hold on here ,stupity and vulgar behavior is not limited to christains.
> Idiots abound in life. I have a physical defect and I can tell you how
> cruel and nasty humans can be. But you see that is the key: HUMANS. All
> sides commit that sin. Some one else posted that same thought but it
> has been ignored. I have known just as many vulgar pagans as I have
> christians so no one side is with out blame.
>
S. Ullerius: I have had an e-converstion with one of my co-religionists
who has Cerebral Palsy. She has received unwarrented grief from within
our Faith Community because she has chosen to stay single and shall not
have children. These pro-breeding bigots give what I think of as Family
a bad rap. I try real hard to look beyond the package in which the Gods
have placed the Heart, Mind and Spirit. I do admit, though, that I
don't have the strength to face another person who is much less able
than I (physically or mentally) every day. Please, don't think that I
believe your physical defect disables you. I don't know you personally,
this is just for the sake of discussion.
>
> This is like a blade that swing both ways. IF you notice how modern
> christian writers view modern pagans you see very much the same worries
> that the leaders of Roman voiced. have we learned nothing! The Nova
> Roma main web page states that one need not be pagan to belong maybe
> "but it helps" should be added.If I was reading our posts for the first
> time I would be rethinking belonging. We must remember that the good
> lady should have our support but we need not let become a Us vs them.
>
> My thoughts
> P. Ancinna Olivia
>
S. Ullerius: I think the blade swings at the broad Pagan/Heathen
community when we consciencely (or unconsciously) denigrate the
"mainstream' religions by using a lower case letter at the beginning of
the proper names thereof: i.e. christian vis-a-vis Christian. We should
be mindful of past excesses, be cautious of present and future problems,
but advance ourselves on our chosen Paths. We gain Strength when we can
travel together in our broad Faith Community. But, we do not have the
resources (nor many of us the inclination) to live apart. I think we do
ourselves no good if we can not show this little courtesy to potential
adversaries, or potential friends.
May Thee and Thine Fare Well with the Blessings of All the Holy Ones!
S. Ullerius Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:03:47 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete omnes (and especially Aprica--this stuff has no *business*
happening to someone so nice!!)--
I'm afraid it's not just pagans who get 'slagged' (as you put it) by
people like this. I'm a Christian, and I get it from my fellow (??)-
believers all the time!! I have been kicked out of or made to feel
unwelcome in more churches than you could shake a forked stick at, for
such reasons as:
- being a Roman
- being an intellectual
- being respectful of others' belief-systems
- liking wolves
- liking dragons
- wearing a T-shirt with a griffin on it
- wearing a T-shirt with a cowboy angel on it
- wearing a T-shirt with elves on it
- playing role-playing games
- cutting my hair short
- not getting baptized right
- not speaking in tongues
- speaking in church at all
- not wearing a dress
- having ever been a Catholic
- being a woman in the military
...sigh...the hits just keep on comin'. I have not attended church
regularly for ten years, and not at all for at least seven. I'm not
ashamed of my faith, per se, but since the fun-dumbs took over it's
become nearly impossible for me to associate with other Christians.
I've pretty well decided that, if I can still be considered a Christian
at all, it most be some long-extinct heretical sect! (More seriously,
I have begun looking into the Celtic (Pelagian) Church.)
I find it easier and more enjoyable to have an intelligent, meaningful
discussion of personal religious beliefs with my pagan friends from the
RenFaire circuit than I do with other Christians. Something's off
about that. Christianity in the U.S. seems to have devolved into a
collection of knee-jerk responses, Bible quotes and bumper-sticker
theology.
OK, here's my slag story...
For a while I was subscribed to a mailing-list for Latin teachers of
all grade levels. There was this one persistantly-obnoxious individual
who would go on about what was morally right and wrong in classical
culture and how much of it the tender innocents at his private-academy
high school ought or ought not to be exposed to. And always, at the
end, with the monotony and regularity of Cato on Carthage, he would
cheerfully tell everyone else on the List how and why they were going
to hell if they didn't see things HIS way. After a particularly nasty
few months I'd finally Had It!! and wired him to state the following:
- I didn't recall anyone on the List asking him for his religious
views...
- If he was going to share them anyway, he ought to do it privately
and only with whoever expressed interest, not on the List...
- If so much of what was contained in his syllabus was an affront to
his beliefs, what the hell was he doing in Classics?...
- If all he had managed to derive from Christ's teachings was the
threat of hellfire, he had *completely missed the point*...
- and, finally, a request for this man to cease misrepresenting God,
harassing others and embarrassing himself.
It was *weeks* before he posted again, and then it was very tame and
confined to the topic at hand. Oh, that felt good. One could wish
they were as readily-handled in face-to-face...
Curate bene, et nolite permittere illegitimi vobis opprimere!
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:10:17 -0400 |
|
responsible for the crimes comitted towards the
> followers of the Religio Romana in the 3rd, 4th and 5th centuries.
> >>
>
>Oh please, let's not do this! Nova Roma has both Pagan and Christian
Citizens,
>all who are enthusiasts of Classical Roman culture. We'd do much better to
>share our similarities and common interest than deepening any existing
>differences.
>
>Pax, everyone. Marcus Cassius Julianus,Consul
>
Salvete Cives
I can understand the feelings Aprica has being in the minority. I
usually just file it away or forget it when I hear a remark from someone,
but I have the feeling this was more directed at Aprica personally. As for
we others, it is something akin to a siege and Nova Roma having as a stated
goal the restoration of the Religio Romanum we feel defensive. And this
defensiveness does grow tiresome, however "a liberal attitude of gentlemanly
indifference is always at a disavantage when faced with zealotry."The Demise
of Paganism, James J. O'Donnell.
Having said this, I say "here here" to M Cassius Julianus. Let us
choose a path of understanding rather than ignorance.
Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Afranius Siagrius |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:33:00 -0700 |
|
Salus et Fortuna Omnes, Salvete!
Just spent a couple of hours webcrawling. Nada on Afrianus Siagrius
from the capabilities of 9 different search engines.
It's off to (shudder) the actual written word!
Pax
S. Ullerius Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:49:20 -0700 |
|
legion6@-------- wrote:
> From: legion6@--------
> I have been kicked out of or made to feel
> unwelcome in more churches than you could shake a forked stick at, for
> such reasons as:
> -
> - liking dragons
This reminds me of the time in my past "fundy" incarnation, when I was
critisized for letting mytoddler wear my old "medallion" from the '60's (
remember those?). It was an owl. I repeat, an OWL. I was told that it was a
pagan symbol and I shouldn't let her wear it!! Now of course I an very proud
to wear Athena's totem, but I must add that this happened at a very fundy
place and was one person's opinion. This is not a reflection of most people
in churches.
> - not wearing a dress
- being a woman in the militaryNow this is a surprise! Marius, I thought
you were male!
> ///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
And there is the explanation ;-)
Best, Pythia
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:39:01 PDT |
|
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
>
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>
>> Yeah, I'd have to say that I agree with you, especially on the
>> Kalash...I saw something about them on the web the other day...I'll
>>have to go back and find it.......
>>
>> Vale,
>>
>> G. Marius Asiaticus
>> >>
>
>Salve Marius,
>
>If you saw something about the Kalash, it was probably at my site!;)
><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp</a>
>I have a whole section about them. And if it was not at my site, would
you
>mind emailing me the link so I can add it? Thanks!
>
>Pythia
>--
>
>>
Salve, amica,
Now that you mention it, it probably was your site...but last night,
with nothing better to do, I searched Yahoo with the entry "kalash"... I
got about 200 or so hits, but didn't have time to scan them all...
Vale,
G. Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:59:12 -0700 |
|
>
> Now that you mention it, it probably was your site...but last night,
> with nothing better to do, I searched Yahoo with the entry "kalash"... I
> got about 200 or so hits, but didn't have time to scan them all...
>
> Vale,
>
> G. Marius Asiaticus
> >>
Asiaticus,
This is true, but many of them are links to science fiction and Role playing
sites, as the words "Kalas" and "Kalash" seem to be popular there! Remember
"Kayless" of Klingon fame? Same sort of thing, I think!
Pythia
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
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_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Concordia |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete, omnes!
Many thanks for all your wise and kind words about my experience,
and thanks especially to Titus Labienus Fortunatus for the quotations
from Marcus Aurelius - they were extremely appropriate.
The postscript to my previous message, which I wrote on the way
home from the pub last night, is that after I got home, I dedicated
some incense to Concordia. I asked firstly that I should be able to
get over what had happened, and feel a sympathy with, rather than
antagonism towards this guy, and secondly, that people in general
should be less inclined to lay into each other like that, and more
ready to understand each other. To explain briefly what this meant for
me, I see Concordia (who is one of my patron deities) as a
personification of the power which is in all of us to aim for concord
with our fellow beings, so the offering was for me a way of accessing
that power within myself, and turning myself towards concord.
After I had made the offering, I thought a little more about what
had happened, and ended up feeling what several people have expressed
in their posts - rather sorry for this guy, and slightly worried about
what was going on inside his head to make him act like that. I fully
realise that it is not only Christians who behave like that - I know
many Christians who are fine and decent people, with Concordia flowing
freely in their veins (although they call that force by another name).
I also learnt a little more about him today from the girl on the dig
who had brought him to the pub, and it seems that he has been through
some rough times psychologically, and I guess was overreacting through
a kind of fear. So, the offering seems to have worked for me, and I
don't feel upset about it anymore.
Also I have to add that I think the stuff about making a
public-enemy list is a very bad idea, and totally NOT in keeping with
the idea of Concordia at all. I'd like to feel that Nova Roma is able
to welcome people of all faiths who are interested in Roman culture.
Oh, and the dig? Well, Pavo (my son) and I are both involved in
it - it's an Oxford University Archaeological Society dig,
investigating the line of a road associated with a military base, and
some of the camp ditches around the base. It's a lot of fun, and I'm
learning a lot, although it's very hard work - most of the ditches are
visible now as deposits of thick grey clay (from when they silted up),
which we have to shovel out to find out what shape and how deep they
were. I've found a few bits and pieces - a gigantic bone, some Iron
Age pottery, lots of animal teeth and lots of snail shells! Some coins
have also been found by a metal detectorist who's helping out, while a
few people have been lucky enough to find really large pieces of pots,
almost entire pots, and some rather nice Samian ware. Oh, and a horse
skull! We hope that by the end of the dig (a week on Sunday), we'll
have been able to discover a bit more about how long the camp was in
use, and the same about the road - I'll let you all know if anything
particularly exciting is revealed.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough for now. Thanks again, everyone,
for your intelligent and sensitive posts. With people like you lot as
fellow-citizens, I am proud to call myself a Nova Roman!
Vale!
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:59:41 PDT |
|
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
>
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>
>Asiaticus,
>
>This is true, but many of them are links to science fiction and Role
>playing sites, as the words "Kalas" and "Kalash" seem to be popular
>there! Remember "Kayless" of Klingon fame? Same sort of thing, I
>think!
>
>Pythia
>
>
>>
Pythia,
True, but the article I spent the most itme on was from a chess player
who had married a Kalash woman....his site had several links....
Asiaticus
>>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Afranius Siagrius |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:07:25 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve, Venator--
You won't find Syagrius (the spelling I've seen) in _Who was Who in the
Roman World_; by some oversight, while there is a cross-reference to
his article in the bio of Clovis, there is no article itself. Neither
is he in the Index of Persons Mentioned [w/o a separate article].
Sigh...
Nevertheless, I did fashion a nice little subplot around him in the
AD&D game that I'm running!
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends
|
| Subject: |
Roleplaying Game (was: Grrr...) |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:47:28 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve, Pythia...
>Now this is a surprise! Marius, I thought
>you were male!
>> ///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
>And there is the explanation ;-)
Guess I blew my own cover on that one, yes? (You see why I would never
make it as a secret agent.) Nova Roma's is the first chat-room [almost
typed 'chat-rome'!] I ever ventured into [after several years on the
'Net, yet]. I'd heard all the horror stories about tacky people trying
to pick up girls; and besides, the whole Chat thing sounded much too
cocktail-party-loungish for me and I have *never* enjoyed that sort of
thing.
So when I found Nova Roma's room and finally decided to take the
plunge, my gut instinct said the *last* thing I wanted to be was
obviously-female. Besides, I'm such a tomboy anyway...and one of my
favorite authors, Sherry Turkle (she writes a lot about the
sociological dimensions of computing), has written at length on the way
that chat rooms and other Internet get-togethers give us a chance to
try on new identities or other, possibly-suppressed aspects of our
existing selves. So--MariusFimbria. (I won't tell him he's a girl if
you don't!) >(<|;-) <----Roman Smiley
And now you know. Cheers!
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(What this means is the following: As there were no women in the
Legions, when I do my reenactor gig it is as legionary Lucius Marius
Fimbria. [I look pretty male in the armor.] He has been my second
skin for five and a half years now!)
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:41:15 -0700 |
|
Is he the guy who says his child was kidnapped by some born again
Christians? Let me know what you think about his site. If its the same guy,
I thought it was quite interesting but I had questions about his
credability. I want to link it to my page, but I am very careful. Let me
know what you think.
All the best, Pythia
michael cessna wrote:
> From: "mic-------- cessna" clinkerbuilt@--------
>
> >Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
> >
> >From: pythia kingan@--------
> >
> >
> >Asiaticus,
> >
> >This is true, but many of them are links to science fiction and Role
> >playing sites, as the words "Kalas" and "Kalash" seem to be popular
> >there! Remember "Kayless" of Klingon fame? Same sort of thing, I
> >think!
> >
> >Pythia
> >
> >
> >>
> Pythia,
>
> True, but the article I spent the most itme on was from a chess player
> who had married a Kalash woman....his site had several links....
> Asiaticus
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
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_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Concordia |
| From: |
pjane pjane@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:08:16 -0400 (EDT) |
|
>From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>...after I got home, I dedicated
>some incense to Concordia.
What an excellent idea! I expect we all should do that a little more often.
Thanks for telling us about the dig - it sounds fascinating! Where are you
digging?
Patricia Cassia
"It is thy duty to leave another man's wrongful act there where it is." -
M. Aurelius Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
pjane pjane@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:08:10 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Labienus wrote:
> Your experience is one that, sadly, I've shared on a number of
>occasions.
>You have my sympathy. When I'm upset over something, I often turn to the
>Meditations of M. Aurelius Antoninus to calm and center myself. Here are some
>of my favorite quotes from that work.
Hey, thanks! I hope you (and M. Aurelius) don't mind, but I stole one for
my new sig line.
It's so cool to be new to all this Roman stuff - I still have so many great
books to read!
Patricia Cassia
"It is thy duty to leave another man's wrongful act there where it is." -
M. Aurelius Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"Manius Viaus Greco" greco@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:56:03 -0700 |
|
Salvete et avete, cives,
Claudia Aprica wrote:
"However, he continued. 'I mean', he said 'this Roman thing
is only one step away from all that weird Norse Oden stuff.
And that,' he continued, 'is only one step away from joining
the National Socialist party and waving your fasces'."
In one respect, this guy was right. Our work could be
confused with the Italian political stance in WWII. Now,
before I get jumped on for saying that -- remember that I
put the word "could" in there. That's important.
This actually touches on some of the work that I do in two
of the other groups I work with: the Arktion Federation /
Order of the Jarls of Baelder and the White Order of Thule.
Both of these groups draw on the principles used by the
NSDAP -- but they are by no means "White Power," anti-
Semitic or Holocaust revisionist groups. No more than Nova
Roma is a resurgence of Italian fascism. They simply take
the position that some of the principles involved are
valuable and work, and others should never have been
implemented in the first place.
But the fact is that most people will not look beyond the
superficial. Explanations like that don't work and never
have, except with those people who are, for lack of a better
term, compulsive philosophers.
We're going to get this flack until we can prove, by our
actions both online and IRL, that we are 1) a serious
organization and 2) that our actions are beneficial not only
to ourselves but to society at large as well. There's the
chance that organizations that are similar to ours will
affect this in a negative manner, though, and because of
this we may end up having to fight the opinion mentioned
because it will at times be based in fact.
As an example: one of the sites we link to from the Religio
Romanum page, the Hellenic Pagan Front (linked to under the
title "Heiron Mysteria"), uses the same emblem as a
Christian White Power political party associated with Alpha,
called the National Alliance. Aplha, if you haven't heard of
it, is an American white supremacist organization suspected
of involvement with domestic terrorism. The HPF is also
associated with the Heathenfront, which has Totemkopf
graphics as the footer on each of its pages and *may* be the
pagan equivalent to Stormfront, the main white power
resource on the net. Some of the links that they provide are
to 1) Pillage and Plunder, a Skinhead resource site, 2)
Germania, which introduces itself as "Revealing the roots of
National Socialism," and 3). Universal Order, a site by
"World View Productions, a wholly owned subsidiary of Odessa
International" (the meaning of "Odessa" should be clear).
We may not like that comments such as the one quoted come
about, but the fact is that they are, to a degree, accurate.
This is one of the things that I was referring to in my post
about intergroup diplomacy on the message board.
I think the main question is not "how do we avoid these
comments or deal with them?" but "how do we deal with the
organizations that actually do these things?" I don't know
how experienced our Consuls, Pontifexes, et. al. are in
micronation politics; I would assume that they are
experienced enough to do their jobs admirably. However, with
our pagan element we are going to be drawn into the world of
occult politics -- and that may be something that we were
not, and possibly are not, prepared for.
How do we plan to approach and deal with these elements?
Valete,
Manius Viaus Greco
‰
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:18:20 -0700 |
|
Manius Viaus Greco wrote:
> From: "Manius Viaus Greco" greco@--------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As an example: one of the sites we link to from the Religio
> Romanum page, the Hellenic Pagan Front (linked to under the
> title "Heiron Mysteria"), uses the same emblem as a
> Christian White Power political party associated with Alpha,
> called the National Alliance. Aplha, if you haven't heard of
> it, is an American white supremacist organization suspected
> of involvement with domestic terrorism. The HPF is also
> associated with the Heathenfront, which has Totemkopf
> graphics as the footer on each of its pages and *may* be the
> pagan equivalent to Stormfront, the main white power
> resource on the net. Some of the links that they provide are
> to 1) Pillage and Plunder, a Skinhead resource site, 2)
> Germania, which introduces itself as "Revealing the roots of
> National Socialism," and 3). Universal Order, a site by
> "World View Productions, a wholly owned subsidiary of Odessa
> International" (the meaning of "Odessa" should be clear).
>
>
Now THIS is interesting! I couldn't believe that Heiron Mysteria had a link
to anything like HPF so I checked it out. She does not! I repeat there is no
link to HPF on Jasmine's site. HOWEVER, if you go to the RELIGIO page at
Nova Roma and hit the link called Heiron Mysteria you will be taken to
Hellenic Pagan Front. This needs to be remedied immediately.
About Hellenic Pagan Front, or HPF: It is a nazi site masquerading as a
Hellenic site. There is fundimentally no difference between what Koballos
spouts, and any other brand of neo-nazi spirituality. The basic premise is
that Europe, as Aryan, and Indo-european, is held prisoner by the eeevil
Jews through their agents the Christian church. According to this genius,
the Aryans are fundimentally polytheistic, and the Semites are fundimentally
monotheistic. Basically the Semites have Greece and the rest of Europe
trapped under their will, and have forced them to worship the "jew" god
(that's a quote).
Nevermind that the Jews have nothing to do with Jesus, and forget the fact
that they were themselves polytheistic, having worshipped the moon, (that's
the origin of the Sabbath, referred to as a Queen) the sun( read the story
of Samson,his name means the sun, Delilah means the night) and a variety of
other Gods.
Awhile ago I did a search for this group and could only find a link to it's
guestbook, there was no link back to it's homepage.
So I signed it, asking for more info. I never was contacted, but damn, now
my webname is on that infernal guestbook!!
I do hope Nova Roma will distance itself from this group, because although
HPF strenuously denies its a nazi group, Koballos' ideology is identical,
and he has strong links to the nazi "Black Metal" bands in Greece, and the
rest of Europe.
I am deeply troubled by all of this, as I know my noble and most blessed
Gods do not desire division, but concord, (as Claudia Aprica pointed out)
truth, and not racist double speak.
A heavy hearted Pythia ;(
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
More about Heathen Fronts ETC. |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:37:02 -0700 |
|
The Hellenic Pagan Front page brought something else to mind for me. I
believe very strongly that the origin of anti-semitism is the fact that
the original religions were surpressed.
The Hebrew bible leaves you only two choices, 1. its written
specifically for Jews or 2. the Jews aren't really the Jews, the
Christians are. So it's no wonder that taken to its logical conclusion,
people want their own religions back.
But to accuse the Jews of inflicting their religion on Europe by force
is ludicrous. The other option, if you believe Koballos' "Pagan Tale",
is that the Greeks, and the rest of Europe were naive morons who were
led astray by conniving rich middle easterners, dupes who had no
critical faculties of their own. Therefore, they bear no responsibility
for their own problems.
Pythia
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Oplontian@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:34:51 EDT |
|
Salve,
How do we get to the real Heiron Mysteria site rather than that nasty surprise
linked to the Religio page ?
Vale, Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:37:18 -0700 |
|
Oplonti--------... wrote:
> From: Oplonti--------...
>
> Salve,
> How do we get to the real Heiron Mysteria site rather than that nasty surprise
> linked to the Religio page ?
> Vale, Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
<a href="http://www.users.fl.net.au/~hiera" target="_top" >http://www.users.fl.net.au/~hiera</a> ought to do it....and, Germanicus, how the hell
did that happen in the first place?
Pythia
>
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:39:26 -0700 |
|
I hope this works better! <a href="http://www.users.fl.net.au/~hiera/hieron.html" target="_top" >http://www.users.fl.net.au/~hiera/hieron.html</a>
Pythia
>
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
>
> Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
> <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
> <a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:16:34 -0400 |
|
>From: "Manius Viaus Greco" greco@--------
>
>This actually touches on some of the work that I do in two
>of the other groups I work with: the Arktion Federation /
>Order of the Jarls of Baelder and the White Order of Thule.
>Both of these groups draw on the principles used by the
>NSDAP -- but they are by no means "White Power," anti-
>Semitic or Holocaust revisionist groups. No more than Nova
>Roma is a resurgence of Italian fascism. They simply take
>the position that some of the principles involved are
>valuable and work, and others should never have been
>implemented in the first place.
Nova Roma as an organization will not be engaging in any contact with the
Arktion Federation or its sub-groups; their liberal use of terms like
"Aryan", "Volkish" and less well-known White Power code words (not to
mention their apparent embracing of Satanist groups like the Order of the
Nine Angles) makes them completely inappropriate as an organization we would
want to deal with. Nova Roma has no time for dealing with racism in any
form, and despite your protestations to the contrary, I believe they are, by
lending credence to racist doctrines, promoting racism. As long as I remain
Consul or have any influence over the policies of Nova Roma, they (and any
other crypto-racist organization) will remain anethema.
>But the fact is that most people will not look beyond the
>superficial. Explanations like that don't work and never
>have, except with those people who are, for lack of a better
>term, compulsive philosophers.
Having been on the outskirts of the Movement myself for many years through
my association with Volkish Asatru, I can assure you my assessment is not
superficial. I long ago renounced such nonsense, but I am shamed to see not
everyone has had my revelations.
>We're going to get this flack until we can prove, by our
>actions both online and IRL, that we are 1) a serious
>organization and 2) that our actions are beneficial not only
>to ourselves but to society at large as well. There's the
>chance that organizations that are similar to ours will
>affect this in a negative manner, though, and because of
>this we may end up having to fight the opinion mentioned
>because it will at times be based in fact.
>
>As an example: one of the sites we link to from the Religio
>Romanum page, the Hellenic Pagan Front (linked to under the
The link to the HPF has been removed from the Religio Romana page. When it
was originally included, it was a link to a far more benign site. As
webmaster, I hereby apologize for its having remained on the web site this
long. I had already spoken out against the Helenic Pagan Front on the
Helenic Pagan email list, and to find a link to them on my own site fills me
with shame.
<snip>
>We may not like that comments such as the one quoted come
>about, but the fact is that they are, to a degree, accurate.
>This is one of the things that I was referring to in my post
>about intergroup diplomacy on the message board.
It is not accurate in any sense. We are attempting to recreate the best of
the ancient Roman Republic. Mussolini raped ancient Rome for some convenient
symbols to bolster his shakey ideology. I want no part of that, any more
than most mainstream Asatruar want any part of the Nazi regime that raped
Norse mythology for convenient and powerful symbols. I have a Benito
Mussolini t-shirt that I wear as a joke; but for anyone to make a serious
association between what we're trying to do here and Fascist Italy is
ludicrous.
>I think the main question is not "how do we avoid these
>comments or deal with them?" but "how do we deal with the
>organizations that actually do these things?" I don't know
>how experienced our Consuls, Pontifexes, et. al. are in
>micronation politics; I would assume that they are
>experienced enough to do their jobs admirably. However, with
>our pagan element we are going to be drawn into the world of
>occult politics -- and that may be something that we were
>not, and possibly are not, prepared for.
>
>How do we plan to approach and deal with these elements?
I, personally, have no intention of dealing in any manner with the Volkish
wing of occultism. We will suffer nothing but harm by such associations.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:54:04 -0400 |
|
Hehehehe I think you might find this of interest on this topic. It's a bit
long, but worth it...
"We Are the Other People"
by Oberon Zell
"Ding-dong!" goes the doorbell. Is it Avon calling?
Or perhaps Ed McMahon with my three million dollars? No,
it's Yahweh's Witlesses again, just wanting to have a
nice little chat about the Bible...
Boy, did they ever come to the wrong house! So we
invite them in: "Enter freely and of your own will..."
(Hey, it's Sunday morning, nothing much going on, why
not have a little entertainment?) Diane and I amuse
ourselves watching their expressions as they check out
the living room: great horned owl on the back of my
chair; ceremonial masks and medicine skulls of dragons
and unicorns on the wall; crystals, wands, staffs,
swords; lots of Goddess figures and several altars; boa
constrictors draped in amorous embrace over the elkhorn;
white doves sitting in the hanging planters; cats and
weasels underfoot; iron dragon snorting steam atop the
wood stove; posters and paintings of wizards and
dinosaurs and witchy women, some proudly naked;
sculptures of mythological beasties and lots more
dinosaurs; warp six on the star-filled viewscreen of my
computer; a five-foot model of the USS Enterprise and
the skeleton of a plesiosaur hanging from the ceiling;
very, very many books, most of them dealing with
obviously weird subjects... To say nothing of the great
horned owl perched on the back of my chair and the
Unicorn grazing in the front yard. You know; early
Addams Family decor.
And then, of course, it being late in the morning,
you can expect Morning Glory to come wandering out
naked, looking for her wake-up cup of tea. Morning Glory
naked is a truly impressive sight, and the Witlesses
look as if she'd set titties on stun as they stand
immobilized, hands clasped over their genitals. With the
stage set and all the actors in place, the show is ready
to begin.
Their mission, of course, it to save our heathen
souls by turning us on to "The Word of the Lord" - their
Bible. I guess they figure some of us just haven't heard
about it yet, and we're all eagerly awaiting their
joyous tidings of personal salvation through giving our
rational faculties to Jesus. Every time they come
around, I look forward to trying out a new riposte.
Sure, it may be cruel and sadistic of me, but hey, I
didn't call them up and ask them to come over; they
entered at their own risk!
This time should be pretty good. After letting them
run off their basic rap while lovely Morning Glory
serves us all hot herb tea, I innocently remark: "But
none of that applies to us. We have no need for
salvation because we don't have original sin. We are the
Other People."
"Hunh? What?" they reply eloquently. It's clear
they've never heard this one before.
"Right," I say. "It's all in your Bible." And I
proceed to tell them the story, using their own book for
reference:
Genesis 1:26 - The [Elohim] said, "Let us make
humanity in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves,
and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the
birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beasts and all
the reptiles that crawl upon the earth."
Elohim is a plural word, including male and female,
and should properly be translated "Gods" or "Pantheon."
27 The Gods created humanity in the image of
themselves, In the image of the Gods they created them,
Male and Female they created them.
28 The Gods blessed them, saying to them, "Be
fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and conquer it. Be
masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven and
all living animals on the earth."
Now clearly, here we are talking about the original
creation of the human species: male and female. All the
animals,plants, etc. have all been created in previous
verses. This is before the Garden of Eden, and Yahweh is
not mentioned as the creator of these people. The next
chapter talks about how Yahweh, an individual member of
the Pantheon, goes about assembling his own special
little botanical and zoological Garden in Eden, and
making his own little man to inhabit it:
Gen 2:7 - Yahweh God fashioned a man of dust from the
soil. Then he breathed into his nostrils a breath of
life, and thus the man became a living being.
8 Yahweh God planted a garden in Eden which is in the
east, and there he put the man he had fashioned.
9 Yahweh God caused to spring up from the soil every
kind of tree, enticing to look at and good to eat, with
the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil in the middle of the garden.
15 Yahweh God took the man and settled him in the
garden of Eden to cultivate and take care of it.
Now this next is crucial: note Yahweh's precise
words:
16 Then Yahweh God gave the man this admonition, "You
may eat indeed of all the trees in the garden.
17 Nevertheless of the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil you are not to eat, for on the day you eat of
it you shall most surely die."
Fateful words, those. We will refer back to this
admonition later.
Then Yahweh decides to make a woman to go with the
man. Now, don't forget that the Pantheon had earlier
created a whole population of people, "male and female,"
who are presumably doing just fine somewhere "outside
the gates of Eden." But this setup in Eden is Yahweh's
own little experiment, and will unfold to its own
separate destiny.
21 So Yahweh God made the man fall into a deep sleep.
And while he slept, he took one of his ribs and enclosed
it in flesh.
22 Yahweh God built the rib he had taken from the man
into a woman, and brought her to the man.
Right. Man gives birth to woman. Sure he does. But
that's the way the story is told here.
25 Now both of them were naked, the man and his wife,
but they felt no shame in front of each other.
Well, of course not! Why should they? But take
careful note of those words, as they also will prove to
be significant . . .
Now this next part is where it starts to get
interesting. Enter the Serpent:
Gen. 3:1 - The serpent was the most subtle of all the
wild beasts that Yahweh God had made. It asked the
woman, "Did God really say you were not to eat from any
of the trees in the garden?"
2 The woman answered the serpent, "We may eat the
fruit of the trees in the garden.
3 "But of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the
garden God said, 'You must not eat it, nor touch it,
under pain of death'"
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "No! You will
not die!
5 "God knows in fact that on the day you eat it your
eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing
good and evil."
What a remarkable statement! "Your eyes will be
opened and you will be like gods, knowing good and
evil." The Serpent directly contradicts Yahweh.
Obviously, one of them has to be lying. Which one, do
you suppose? And, if the serpent speaks true, wouldn't
you wish to eat of the magic fruit? Wouldn't it be a
good thing, to become "like gods, knowing good and
evil"? Or is it preferable to remain in ignorance?
6 The woman saw that the tree was good to eat and
pleasing to the eye, and that it was desirable for the
knowledge that it could give. So she took some of its
fruit and ate it. She gave some also to her husband who
was with her, and he ate it.
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they
realized that they were naked. So they sewed fig leaves
together to make themselves loincloths.
The author makes an interesting assumption here: that
if you realize you are naked you will automatically want
to cover yourself. Further implications will unfold
shortly...
8 The man and his wife heard the sound of Yahweh God
walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they
hid from Yahweh God among the trees of the garden.
9 But Yahweh God called to the man. "Where are you?"
he asked.
10 "I heard the sound of you in the garden," he
replied. "I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid."
11 "Who told you that you were naked?" he asked.
"Have you been eating of the tree I forbade you to eat?"
And so the sign of the Fall becomes modesty. Take
note of this. The descendants of Adam and Eve will be
distinguished throughout history from virtually all
other peoples by their obsessive modesty taboos, wherein
they will feel ashamed of being naked. It follows that
those who feel no shame in being naked are, by
definition, not carriers of this spiritual disease of
original sin!
12 The man replied, "It was the woman you put with
me; she gave me the fruit, and I ate it."
Right. Blame the woman. What a turkey!
13 Then Yahweh God asked the woman, "What is this you
have done?" The woman replied, "The serpent tempted me
and I ate."
So of course she blames the serpent. But just what
did the serpent do that was so evil? Why, he called
Yahweh a liar! Was he wrong? Let's see...
21 Yahweh God made clothes out of skins for the man
and his wife, and they put them on.
Out of skins? This means that Yahweh had to kill some
innocent animals to pander to Adam and Eve's new
obsession with modesty!
And now we come to the crux of the Fall. Yahweh had
said back there in chapter 2:17, regarding the fruit of
the tree of knowledge, that "on the day you eat of it
you shall most surely die." The Serpent, on the other
hand, had contradicted Yahweh in chapter 3:4-5: "No! You
will not die! God knows in fact that on the day you eat
it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods,
knowing good and evil." So what actually happened? Who
lied and who told the truth about this remarkable fruit?
The answer is given in the next verse:
22 Then Yahweh God said, "See, the man has become
like one of us, with his knowledge of good and evil. He
must not be allowed to stretch his hand out next and
pick from the tree of life also, and eat some and live
forever."
Get that? Yahweh himself admits that he had lied! In
fact, and in Yahweh's own words, the Serpent spoke the
absolute truth! And moreover, Yahweh tells the rest of
the Pantheon that he intends to evict Adam (and
presumably Eve as well) to keep them from gaining
immortality to go with their newly-acquired divine
knowledge. To prevent them, in other words, from truly
becoming gods! So who, in this story, comes off as a
benefactor of humanity, and who comes off as a tyrant?
THE SERPENT NEVER LIED!
This story, to digress slightly, bears a remarkable
resemblance to a contemporary tale from ancient Greece.
In that version, the Serpent (later identified as
Lucifer, the Light-Bearer) may be equated with the
heroic titan Prometheus, who championed humanity against
the tyranny of Zeus, who wished for people to be mere
slaves of the gods. Prometheus, whose name means
"forethought," gave people wisdom, intelligence, and
fire stolen from Olympus. Moreover, he ordained the
portions of animal sacrifice so that humans got the best
parts (the meat and hides) while the portion that was
burned to the gods was the bones and fat. In punishment
for this defiance of his divine authority, Zeus
condemned Prometheus to a terrible punishment for an
immortal: to be chained to a mountain in the Caucasus,
where Zeus' gryphon/eagle (actually a Lammergier) would
devour his liver each day. It would grow back each
night. Zeus promised to relent if Prometheus would
reveal his great secret knowledge: Who would succeed
Zeus as supreme god? Prometheus refused to tell, but
history has revealed the answer...
The interesting thing about all this is that the
Greeks properly regarded Prometheus as a noble hero in
his defiance of unjust tyranny. One may wonder why the
Serpent is not so well regarded. On the contrary, snakes
are loathed throughout Christiandom.
23 So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of
Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken.
24 He banished the man, and in front of the garden of
Eden he posted the cherubs, and the flame of a flashing
sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.
So that's it for the Fall. But the story of Adam and
Eve doesn't end there.
Gen 4:1 - The man had intercourse with his wife Eve,
and she conceived and gave birth to Cain...
2 She gave birth to a second child, Abel, the brother
of Cain. Now Abel became a shepherd and kept flocks,
while Cain tilled the soil.
3 Time passed and Cain brought some of the produce of
the soil as an offering for Yahweh,
4 while Abel for his part brought the first-born of
his flock and some of their fat as well. Yahweh looked
with favor on Abel and his offering. But he did not look
with favor on Cain and his offering, and Cain was very
angry and downcast.
Well, why shouldn't he be? Both brothers had brought
forth their first fruits as offerings, but Yahveh
rejected the vegetables and only accepted the blood
sacrifice. This was to set a gruesome precedent:
8 Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let us go out;" and
while they were in the open country, Cain set on his
brother Abel and killed him.
Accursed and marked for fratricide,
16 Cain left the presence of Yahweh and settled in
the land of Nod, east of Eden.
We can assume that the phrase "left the presence of
Yahweh" implies that Yahweh is a local deity, and not
omnipresent. Now Eden, according to Gen. 2:14-15, was
situated at the source of the Tigris and Euphrates
rivers, apparently right where Lake Van is now, in
Turkey. "East of Eden," therefore, would probably be
along the shores of the Caspian Sea, right in the
Indo-European heartland. Cain settled in there, among
the people of Nod, and married one of the women of that
country. Here, for the first time, is specifically
mentioned the "other people" who are not of the lineage
of Adam and Eve. I.e., the Pagans.
So let's look at this story from another viewpoint:
There we were, around six thousand years ago, living in
our little farming communities around the Caspian Sea,
in the land of Nod, when this dude with a terrible scar
comes stumbling in out of the sunset. He tells us this
bizarre story, about how his mother and father had been
created by some god named Jahweh, and put in charge of a
beautiful garden somewhere out west, and how they had
gotten thrown out for disobedience after eating some of
the landlord's forbidden magic fruit of enlightenment.
He tells us of murdering his brother, as the god of his
parents would only accept blood sacrifice, and of
receiving that scar as a mark so that all would know him
as a fratricide. The poor guy is really a mess
psychologically, obsessed with guilt. He is also
obsessively modest, insisting on wearing clothes even in
the hottest summer, and he has a hard time with our
penchant for skinny-dipping in the warm inland sea. He
seems to believe that he is tainted by the "sin" of his
parent's disobedience; that it is in his blood, somehow,
and will continue to contaminate his children and his
children's children. One of our healing women takes pity
on the poor sucker, and marries him...
17 Cain had intercourse with his wife, and she
conceived and gave birth to Enoch. He became builder of
a town, and he gave the town the name of his son Enoch.
With both of their first sons not turning out very
well, Adam and Eve decided to try again:
25 Adam had intercourse with his wife, and she gave
birth to a son whom she named Seth...
26 A son was also born to Seth, and he named him
Enosh. This man was the first to invoke the name of
Yahweh.
Now it doesn't mention here where Seth's wife came
from. Another woman from Nod, possibly, or maybe someone
from another neolithic community downstream in the
Tigris-Euphrates valley. But her folks also, cannot be
of the lineage of Adam and Eve, and must also be counted
among "the other people."
But whatever happened to Adam? After all, way back
there in chapter 2:17, warning Adam about the magic
fruit of knowlege, Jahweh had told him that "on the day
you eat of it you shall most surely die." So, when did
Adam die?
Gen. 5:4 - Adam lived for eight hundred years after
the birth of Seth and he became the father of sons and
daughters.
5 In all, Adam lived for nine hundred and thirty
years; then he died.
Hey, that's pretty good! Nine hundred and some odd
years isn't bad for a man who's been told he's gonna die
the next day!
Well, the story goes on, and maybe next time the
Witlesses come to visit I'll tell more of it. But
suffice it to say that those of us who are not of
Semitic descent (i.e., not of the lineage of Adam and
Eve) cannot share in the Original Sin that comes with
that lineage. Being that the Bible is the story of that
lineage, of Adam and Eve's descendants and their special
relationship with their particular god, Yahweh, it
follows that this is not the story of the rest of us. We
may may have been Cain's wife's people, or Seth's wife's
people, or some other people over the hill and far away,
but whichever people the rest of us are, as far as the
Bible is concerned, we are the Other People, and so we
are continually referred to throughout. Later books of
the Bible are filled with admonitions to the followers
of Jahweh to "learn not the ways of the Pagans..." (Jer
10:2) with detailed descriptions of exactly what it is
we do, such as erect standing stones and sacred poles,
worship in sacred groves and practice divination and
magic. And worship the sun, moon, stars and the "Queen
of Heaven." "You must not behave as they do in Egypt
where once you lived; you must not behave as they do in
Canaan where I am taking you. You must not follow their
laws." (Lev 18:3) For Yahweh, as he so clearly
emphasises, is not the god of the Pagans. We have our
own lineage and our own heritage, and our tale is not
told in the Bible.
We were not "made" like clay figurines by a male
deity out of "dust from the soil." We were born of our
Mother the Earth, and have evolved over aeons in Her
nurturing embrace. All of us, in our many and diverse
tribes, have creation myths and legends of our origins
and history; some of these tales may even be actually
true. Like the descendants of Adam and Eve, many of us
also have stories of great floods, earthquakes, volcanic
eruptions and other cataclysms that wiped out whole
communities of our people, wherein "I alone survived to
tell the tale." Nearly all of our ancestral tribes (and
especially those of us who today are reclaiming our own
Pagan heritage) lack that peculiar obsessive body
modesty that seems to be a hallmark of the original sin
alluded to in the story of the Fall. We can be naked and
unashamed! Why, our Goddess even tells us, "as a sign
that you are truly free, you shall be naked in your
rites." Not being born into sin, we have no need of
salvation, and no need of a Messiah to redeem our sinful
souls. Neither heaven nor hell is our destination in the
afterlife; we have our own various arrangements with our
own various deities. The Bible is not our story; we have
our own stories to tell, and they are many and diverse.
In a long life, you may get to hear many of them...
May you live long and prosper!
©1997 Church of All Worlds, inc. All rights reserved.
-----Original Message-----
From: pythia kingan@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 7:06 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>
>
>Manius Viaus Greco wrote:
>
>> From: "Manius Viaus Greco" greco@--------
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> As an example: one of the sites we link to from the Religio
>> Romanum page, the Hellenic Pagan Front (linked to under the
>> title "Heiron Mysteria"), uses the same emblem as a
>> Christian White Power political party associated with Alpha,
>> called the National Alliance. Aplha, if you haven't heard of
>> it, is an American white supremacist organization suspected
>> of involvement with domestic terrorism. The HPF is also
>> associated with the Heathenfront, which has Totemkopf
>> graphics as the footer on each of its pages and *may* be the
>> pagan equivalent to Stormfront, the main white power
>> resource on the net. Some of the links that they provide are
>> to 1) Pillage and Plunder, a Skinhead resource site, 2)
>> Germania, which introduces itself as "Revealing the roots of
>> National Socialism," and 3). Universal Order, a site by
>> "World View Productions, a wholly owned subsidiary of Odessa
>> International" (the meaning of "Odessa" should be clear).
>>
>>
>
>Now THIS is interesting! I couldn't believe that Heiron Mysteria had a link
>to anything like HPF so I checked it out. She does not! I repeat there is
no
>link to HPF on Jasmine's site. HOWEVER, if you go to the RELIGIO page at
>Nova Roma and hit the link called Heiron Mysteria you will be taken to
>Hellenic Pagan Front. This needs to be remedied immediately.
>
>About Hellenic Pagan Front, or HPF: It is a nazi site masquerading as a
>Hellenic site. There is fundimentally no difference between what Koballos
>spouts, and any other brand of neo-nazi spirituality. The basic premise is
>that Europe, as Aryan, and Indo-european, is held prisoner by the eeevil
>Jews through their agents the Christian church. According to this genius,
>the Aryans are fundimentally polytheistic, and the Semites are
fundimentally
>monotheistic. Basically the Semites have Greece and the rest of Europe
>trapped under their will, and have forced them to worship the "jew" god
>(that's a quote).
>
>Nevermind that the Jews have nothing to do with Jesus, and forget the fact
>that they were themselves polytheistic, having worshipped the moon, (that's
>the origin of the Sabbath, referred to as a Queen) the sun( read the story
>of Samson,his name means the sun, Delilah means the night) and a variety of
>other Gods.
>
>Awhile ago I did a search for this group and could only find a link to it's
>guestbook, there was no link back to it's homepage.
>So I signed it, asking for more info. I never was contacted, but damn, now
>my webname is on that infernal guestbook!!
>
>I do hope Nova Roma will distance itself from this group, because although
>HPF strenuously denies its a nazi group, Koballos' ideology is identical,
>and he has strong links to the nazi "Black Metal" bands in Greece, and the
>rest of Europe.
>
>I am deeply troubled by all of this, as I know my noble and most blessed
>Gods do not desire division, but concord, (as Claudia Aprica pointed out)
>truth, and not racist double speak.
>
>A heavy hearted Pythia ;(
>
>
>--
>_______________________________________________________________________
>the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
>
>Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
><a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 21:27:42 -0700 |
|
Waes Hael and Salvete Flavius Vedius Germanicus!
>
> I, personally, have no intention of dealing in any manner with the
> Volkish wing of occultism. We will suffer nothing but harm by such
> associations.
>
I apologize in advance for this being way off topic for a what should be
a Roman themed discussion list.
Do you make a distinction between Volkish Wotanists (like David and
Katya Lane's 14 Words/Order Bruder Schweigen, etc., - Aryan as
Ubermensch, all else are "Mud People") and Folkish Asatru/Odinism
(Valgard Murray's Asatru Alliance, Steve McNallen's Asatru Folk
Alliance, et alia - be proud and don't apologize because you're
European, everyone should honor their own Ancestors and Their Ways)? I
know I'm oversimplifying, but this is an important issue to me.
I consider myself Folkish (or Racist as some would have it). I admit
that I am most comfortable with persons who resemble me most strongly.
These are the persons who represent the bulk of my friendships. While I
have no desire to extend my most intimate interpersonal or religious
relationships, I try very hard not to let these feelings color my
opinion on someone based simply on appearence. I don't hate based on
the package that the Holy Ones put one's Heart, Mind and Spirit into,
that would be ludicrous and stupid. I just wish the right to have the
most intimate areas of my life reserved.
I read Nova Roma's webpage thoroughly and corresponded with you before I
applied for Citizenship. I agree with what Nova Roma is trying to
re-create; Retro-Heathenry doing it's best based on the available
documentary and archaeological evidence. I also agree with the stated
aims of trying to redress the grievous ways that our Cultural Ancestors
did some things: i.e. equality for Women, encouraging universal
literacy, having a fully informed electorate... I enjoy the emphasis I
see in the discourse here and in the bulletin board, especially the
intellectual and philosophic variety. Alma Mater Roma was a truly
cosmopolitan popourri of cultures, not always compatible, but always
lively.
I am pleased I found Nova Roma.
Thanks for the read.
Fare Thee Well with the Holy Ones!
S. Ullerius Venator
"Hate is like drinking poison, and waiting for the other fella to die."
- A. Nonius Mus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 21:41:27 -0700 |
|
Salvete Flavius Vedius Germanicus:
Wonderful story. Perhaps this "Other People" lineage explains why so
many good people are turning back to the Holy Ones who created their
ancestors.
Sum ergo cogito!
S. Ullerius Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:21:53 -0400 |
|
>Do you make a distinction between Volkish Wotanists (like David and
>Katya Lane's 14 Words/Order Bruder Schweigen, etc., - Aryan as
>Ubermensch, all else are "Mud People") and Folkish Asatru/Odinism
>(Valgard Murray's Asatru Alliance, Steve McNallen's Asatru Folk
>Alliance, et alia - be proud and don't apologize because you're
>European, everyone should honor their own Ancestors and Their Ways)? I
>know I'm oversimplifying, but this is an important issue to me.
Absolutely. I know there's a vast gulf between the AFA and the SS Action
Group. On the other hand, there is a great deal of membership overlap
between them. I personally know quite a few people in the AFA who are
hard-core Nazis. Institutionally, they aren't welcome, but in reality, they
see the AFA and the AA as places where their views are tolerated, if not
openly acknowledged (I recall a few years ago an AA gathering where someone
consecrated a sword with the name "Kaffirs Bane".)
I think that Folkish Asatru is a fine thing, and has a very definite place
within the broader spectrum of Asatru belief. (I honestly think that
Folkishism has no place in Nova Roma however.) When I was referring to the
"Volkish Wing of occultism" I was referring to the neo-Thule people;
Theosophists who cling to 50+ year old conceptions of the progression of the
races, as well as the hard-core racist Wotanists. For a faith that places
such an emphasis on ancestry, I think a certain modicum of "Volkishness" is
a necessary, even vital, thing.
But you're right. This is more a discussion for an Asatru list.
Vale,
Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 22:36:06 -0700 |
|
Salus et Fortuna Flavius Vedius Germanicus;
Thank you for the clarification. I shall try and add to Nova Roma as a
Citizen and a Roman, new come from Scandia-Germania (culturally folks,
not literally).
By the way, I am preparing a booklet on the brewing of Mead, Ale, Cider
and related beverages. I'll share it when done. In the meantime, if
anyone needs advice on brewing, or vinting, please write.
Valete, Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: History Channel |
| From: |
"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:39:11 PDT |
|
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: History Channel
>
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>Is he the guy who says his child was kidnapped by some born again
>Christians? Let me know what you think about his site. If its the >same
guy, I thought it was quite interesting but I had questions >about his
credability. I want to link it to my page, but I am very >careful. Let
me know what you think.
>
>All the best, Pythia
>
>
>>
DING!!! That's him. Not sure what I think of his story...I have a hard
time buying the concept of a couple of Moslem nations allowing infidels
to 'kidnap' a Muslim child...I think there's more to this than meets the
eye...I've had unpleasent experiences with situations like this, so, my
advice is to step carefully..........
Asiaticus
>>
>
>
|
