| Subject: |
Re: Afranius Siagrius |
| From: |
Oplontian@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:25:48 EDT |
|
Salvete,
Here is the little I could find about Syagrius:
Aegidius was Master of the Soldiers under the Emperor Majorian. When Majorian
was deposed in 461 ce, Aegidius broke with the authorities and set up an
independent Roman state based on Soissons in northern Gaul. Aegidius died in
464 and was succeeded by his son Syagrius. Syagrius was apparently both
popular and capable. According to Gibbon: :...the reign of Syagrius ...
seemed to revive the original institution of civil society". He may have used
the title "Patricius" or even "Rex Romanorum". In 486 the army of Syagrius
was defeated by a Frankish force led by Clovis. Syagrius escaped to Toulouse,
but was imprisoned and executed soon afterward. Aegidius is listed in "Who
Was Who in the Roman World", Syagrius is very briefly mentioned in Ferrill's
"Fall of the Roman Empire" and somewhat more fully in chapter 38 of Gibbon's
"Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". There must be more information out
there somewhere. It might be productive to consult a couple of ancient
authors: Sidonius Apollinaris, and Gregory of Tours, who are two of Gibbon's
sources.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"Nathan Hicks" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 02:40:44 -0400 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s germa--------s@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:57 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" germa--------s@--------
>
>Hehehehe I think you might find this of interest on this topic. It's a bit
>long, but worth it...
>
>"We Are the Other People"
>by Oberon Zell
I feel compelled to make a defence of the Bible, out of
a love for clarity.
>But whatever happened to Adam? After all, way back
>there in chapter 2:17, warning Adam about the magic
>fruit of knowlege, Jahweh had told him that "on the day
>you eat of it you shall most surely die." So, when did
>Adam die?
>
>Gen. 5:4 - Adam lived for eight hundred years after
>the birth of Seth and he became the father of sons and
>daughters.
>5 In all, Adam lived for nine hundred and thirty
>years; then he died.
>
>Hey, that's pretty good! Nine hundred and some odd
>years isn't bad for a man who's been told he's gonna die
>the next day!
Although nowadays 'shall' and 'will' simply express the
futurity of a verb, orginally they had the meanings 'to
be obliged' and 'to wish'. Anglo-Saxon, in fact, didn't
have a future tense. That want of a future tense, as we
see here, has persisted to a degree and become a source
of ambiguity. The passage is saying only that, when Adam
eats of the tree, he is, on that day, obliged to die on
some other day, whether near or far as men reckon time.
I don't regard the correct interpretation as one that's
very hard to arrive at. Yet at the same time, he offers
his own views as confidently there as elsewhere. Perhaps,
then, all of his remarks are as flawed elsewhere as there.
I doubt him and I've never even read the book that he's
picking apart. :)
(And who'd ever trust the authority of a man who's hung
a 5-foot model of the Enterprise in his house anyway?)
Cn. Aelius Rusticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
"michael cessna" clinkerbuilt@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:03:13 PDT |
|
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts
>
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" germa--------s@--------
>
<HUGE snip of excellent material>
>
>I, personally, have no intention of dealing in any manner with the
>Volkish wing of occultism. We will suffer nothing but harm by such
>associations.
>
>
>>
Salve, omnes!
Well said, Consul.
I have to weigh in, here. For the record, this email addy is the real
me. Having said that, I will now admit that I lurk, under a couple of
assumed identities, on various Volkish/Racist lists. I do this in order
to 'keep my ear to the ground', so to speak.
The secret to the success of these leeches, is that they play upon the
fears of individuals cursed with a 'siege mentality', while, at the same
time, telling them what GREAT people they are, for being concerned about
what's going on around them--and, "Oh!, by the way, we've got this great
plan to help; all you have to do is do your little part...."
It's pretty revolting. They've got to have Goebbels' works in front of
them...and, sadly they've probably got Carnegie, as well. This, in my
view, is the greatest threat we face. We will, undoubtedly, be dealing
with this for some time, but we must remember that the spirit of Roma
walks with us; all we have to do is follow her.
Sorry for the heaviness, but I think it had to be said.......
(clearing the Podium, alter egos returning to lurk mode)
Valete,
Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:25:06 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/4/98 12:03:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
legion6@-------- write--------r>
<< I'm a Christian, and I get it from my fellow (??)-
believers all the time!! I have been kicked out of or made to feel
unwelcome in more churches than you could shake a forked stick at, for
such reasons as: >> (snipped)
This is so true. Christians even attack other christians. Look at the
problems in Ireland and even as far back as the inquisition (most of the
victims burned or killed were christians of sects other than the established
church)
I find it rather humorous (and this is not a jab at the christians) that
Christianity has so million different sects and off-shoots and each one is
claiming to be the "only way". I have found (with a few exceptions) that most
christians have a very limiting view of Divinity (i.e. God). "God is
this...and God is that...and if you try to tell me otherwise, I'll yell and
scream and condemn you to hell!" No wonder I left christianity at such a
young age.
In comparison, Pagans also have numerous traditions and sects (if you will),
but rarely do you ever hear a Pagan proselytizing that Wicca is the "only way"
or all non-Asatruars will plummit into the abyss or "one is only saved through
the worship of Apollo".
Perhaps this is the strength of polytheism (again...no jab at the christians
here). That the belief in the diversity of the Divine allows us (humans) to
see and honor (if not in the least, respect) the diversity of the mundane.
I would be very interested to learn how many wars were fought on the basis of
ideology before the spread of monotheism throughout the world compared to
after. Any history enthusiasts care to take a stab at it?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:31:42 EDT |
|
In a m--------g--------t--------/4/98 2:37:33 PM East--------Daylight Tim--------ingan@--------
writes:
<< > - not wearing a dress
- being a woman in the militaryNow this is a surprise! Marius, I thought
you were male! >>
Ho-hum! Are you insinuating that a man cannot wear a dress? LOL...just
playing with ya, Pythia!
--I'm actually writing this while in a drunken slumber in Grand Rapids. My
friend, Michael, and I flew out here for the weekend to spend Labor Day with a
mutual friend. For the flight, Michael was dressed in drag...so I found
Pythia's comments amusing--
--Dexippus
<<needs coffee!>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:53:20 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/4/98 4:56:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
greco@-------- writes:
<< How do we plan to approach and deal with these elements? >>
Well, first off...I don't see how anyone could mistake Nova Roma as a
Mussolini-inspired, Italian-Fascist group. And if they did, they would
probably already have themselves inclined to such ridiculous fronts. One look
at the website and it becomes clear that we are a reconstructionist
organization of the Classical mindset and partial to the Pagan spiritual path.
Furthermore, upon reading our website, it becomes clear that Nova Roma has NO
political agenda. We are not a call to arms against any macronation nor are
we calling for a Pagan-jihad.
I think our inter-micronations-relations committe (if we have one) should keep
true to this. No relations should be formed with any group (Pagan or non)
that aligns itself with racial purists, pro-nationalist, or cultural-centric
groups.
This is not to say that just because an organization might use the same
symbolism as one of these groups, that we shouldn't open relations. We do
understand that the Nordic Swastika is not equivalent to the Nazi Swastika
(the later is a corruption of the former). We should base our relations on a
group's purpose and structure and not soley by their symbolism.
We would probably do well to educate the public about the differences therein
if we were ever to align ourselves with such organizations.
--Dexippus
<<my .02 cents after 3 cups of coffee>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:02:32 EDT |
|
In a m--------g--------t--------/4/98 7:06:51 PM East--------Daylight Tim--------ingan@--------
writes:
<< About Hellenic Pagan Front, or HPF: It is a nazi site masquerading as a
Hellenic site. There is fundimentally no difference between what Koballos
spouts, and any other brand of neo-nazi spirituality. >>
I totally agree with Pythia here! I too was a bit afronted upon reading this
site's material. Koballos claims that he is not anti-semitic but all his
quotes referring to the "jew-god" and the oppression of the Hellenes by the
"jews" is too obvious, if not just plain stupidity on his part.
<<I do hope Nova Roma will distance itself from this group, because although
HPF strenuously denies its a nazi group, Koballos' ideology is identical,
and he has strong links to the nazi "Black Metal" bands in Greece, and the
rest of Europe.>>
I whole-heartedly agree! And this is what I was speaking about in an earlier
post. Just because a group is Pagan, doesn't mean we should align ourselves
with them (either officially or be having a link). Has anyone ever listened
to the lyrics of any of the Black Metal bands? They are neo-nazi call to arms
and propaganda sometimes laced with references to Zeus and Pagan Deities.
This is an abomination to our (Pagans) entire faith and purpose and should not
be supported in any way by Nova Roma.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:17:01 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/4/98 9:57:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
germa--------s@-------- writes:
<< Hehehehe I think you might find this of interest on this topic. It's a bit
long, but worth it...
"We Are the Other People"
by Oberon Zell >>
I actually have this as a Pagan tract (you know, those funny little comic
strips that you can hand evangelists once they hand you one of their own). I
didn't know Oberon Zell had his hand in writing it? Or maybe he didn't? Oh
well...interesting reading and perspective, isn't it?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:21:20 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/4/98 11:25:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
germa--------s@-------- writes:
<< But you're right. This is more a discussion for an Asatru list >>
Maybe...but I personally find it interesting. I don't have much knowledge
about Asatru and have recently been finding the topic and the movement
interesting as it relates to the broader Neo-Pagan Community. So I don't mind
it being off-topic.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:27:52 EDT |
|
In a message da--------9/5/98 2:39:48 AM Eas-------- Dayligh--------me, moman@--------
writes:
<< (And who'd ever trust the authority of a man who's hung
a 5-foot model of the Enterprise in his house anyway?)
>>
Spock! Are you out of your Vulcan mind?
While I'm probably aligned to agree with some of the "Other People" story
(i.e. the Hebrew bible is for the Hebrews...other people were on earth before
Yahwe created Adam and Eve, etc.), I do often feel the need to further
question anyone's interpretation or ideas. Especially from someone who breads
Unicorns!!!!!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Insulting comments and Heathen Fronts |
| From: |
pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 05 Sep 1998 12:53:35 -0700 |
|
> While I'm probably aligned to agree with some of the "Other People" story
> (i.e. the Hebrew bible is for the Hebrews...other people were on earth before
> Yahwe created Adam and Eve, etc.),
This is the one part of the piece I actually find a little off, because it seems
to validate racial theories of separate creation. Yeah, the Hebrew bible belongs
to "the Hebrews", the way the Eddas belong to the Norse, I have a hard time
accepting that differant Gods created differant races.
Pythia
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
--
_______________________________________________________________________
the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: More about Heathen Fronts ETC. |
| From: |
"Robert Woolwine" Alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:40:42 -0700 |
|
All that I can say, is that, in being a Jew, I have never forced my belief
on anyone. I dont know if there are anyother Jews on NR, but as far as I
will go, I will not deny my heritage (which was the source of my problem at
my former employer), I will not deny my religion (which at this point I
really do not have one). And I will not allow myself to hear observe or
contribute to religious slurs about my relatives. I am a citizen of NR, and
a Quaestor for our growing republic. I am pleased about the reactions of
our citizens regarding this subject, and I am proud to continue to be a
citizen, and serve the republic in any capacity. While I am not religious,
I do understand that for many of you, religion plays an important part to
your life. I have no problem, personal or otherwise, in how, what, and when
you practice your religion.
Well, being a Jew I had to speak up, because I felt that I needed to. Being
also a victim of Religious discrimination via a Christian College.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla,
Quaestor
-----Original Message-----
From: pythia kingan@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 4:24 PM
Subject: [novaroma] More about Heathen Fronts ETC.
>From: pythia kingan@--------
>
>The Hellenic Pagan Front page brought something else to mind for me. I
>believe very strongly that the origin of anti-semitism is the fact that
>the original religions were surpressed.
>The Hebrew bible leaves you only two choices, 1. its written
>specifically for Jews or 2. the Jews aren't really the Jews, the
>Christians are. So it's no wonder that taken to its logical conclusion,
>people want their own religions back.
>
>But to accuse the Jews of inflicting their religion on Europe by force
>is ludicrous. The other option, if you believe Koballos' "Pagan Tale",
>is that the Greeks, and the rest of Europe were naive morons who were
>led astray by conniving rich middle easterners, dupes who had no
>critical faculties of their own. Therefore, they bear no responsibility
>for their own problems.
>
>Pythia
>--
>_______________________________________________________________________
>the Studio at the Sign Of The Harp:
>
>Beautuful and Unique Jewelry inspired by the Ancient World.
><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>
><a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Grrr! I'm so angry! and I don't like how these posts have tur |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:34:35 -0400 |
|
Asseri@-------- wrote:
>
>
> Hold on here ,stupity and vulgar behavior is not limited to christains. Ididts
> abound in life.I have a physical defect and I can tell you how cruel and nasty
> humans can be. But you see that is the key: HUMANS. All sides commit that sin.
> Some one else posted that same thought but it has been ignored. I have known
> just as many vulgar pagans as I have christians so no one side is with out
> blame.
> This is like a blade that swing both ways. IF you notice how modern christian
> writers view modern pagans you see very much the same worries that the leaders
> of Roman voiced. have we learned nothing!
> The Nova Roma main web page states that one need not be pagan to belong maybe
> "but it helps" should be added.If I was reading our posts for the first time
> I would be rethinking belonging. We must remember that the good lady should
> have our support but we need not let become a Us vs them.
>
Well spoken.
Can we please agree that there were atrocities on both sides and let it
GO, fer pete's sake? This is the Nova Roma list...not the "Let's Bash
Other Religions" list. Get over it.
As guilty as anyone,
F. Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Afranius Siagrius |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:38:38 -0400 |
|
C--------us622@-------- wrote:
>
> From: C--------us622@--------
>
> Salve,
>
> I've never heard of Afranius Siagrius! Can't imagine how this fascinating bit
> of history escaped me. I too would love to hear more on the subject. At the
> very least, Antonius, could you possibly do a write up on this for "The
> Eagle"? I personally have always been interested in the last attempts to hold
> on to Classical civilization in the face of "the dark ages"...
>
PLEASE do a piece for the Eagle! About 500 words, please...more and I
have to continue it in the next issue, but if it takes more, that's what
we'll do. Interesting subject!
-F. Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: books |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:44:41 -0400 |
|
pjane wrote:
>
>
> It's so cool to be new to all this Roman stuff - I still have so many great
> books to read!
>
I highly recommend Suetonius' "The Twelve Caesars." What great gossip --
accurate or not! This guy was the Joan Rivers of Rome. Get the edition
translated by Robert Graves, then read "I Claudius."
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
-F. Claudia
|
