Subject:	Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.
From:	"Robert Woolwine" Alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:55:47 -0700

Ok everyone, lets just calm down a bit. THe long term objective of Nova Roma is to actually exist physically. However, that is a long term objective, and not one that will happen anytime soon. Right now, we are still trying to "reinvent" the culture, customs and traditions of Ancient Rome. Then, when that is complete (if it ever will be), then we need to concentrate on donations. Becuase, we will never be able to reach any substantial goal without financial contributions. Lets not concentrate on the ends, yet. But on the means to the ends. We dont want to upset any citizen on issues that at this time are completly irrelevant.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor

What came first the Chicken or the Egg?

-----Original Message-----
From: michael marconi mdm8@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 11:43 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.



Ira Adams wrote:

From: Ira Adams iadams@--------
> Hello,
>
> HOLD the bust!!!! Are we daydreaming or am I going insane? The
>idea
>of creating a bust can wait till Nova Roma is more established. We are
>placing
>the cart before the horse. First, lets get a homeland, to build this
>micronation,
>and then worry about the BUST.
>
> Thanks
>
>Lucius Marconius Romanus

Actually, you seem a bit confused about what is going on here. (I have no
idea whether you are insane or not. :-) ) Nobody is looking for a
"homeland," whatever that might be. This micronation exists in
"cyberspace"

Maybe, you read the fourth paragraph from 'Declaratio Nova Roma' wrong. The concept of a micronation is more than setting in front of a computer and living in "cyberspace." Obtaining land for a micronation is a fact!! Well, I see no need to throw stones at each other--for both of us are probably doing our best -as all citizens should.
Fortuna fortibus favet.
Vale
L. Marconius Romanus
as a community of like-minded (to _some_ extent, anyway)
individuals, and it is that community that we need to be building. Part
of the matter of any nation or community is its history. Thus it is
perfectly appropriate for us to begin an archive of those who have served
Nova Roma. This is an essential part of building our Mos Maiorum.
I agree with Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus, that we should have a "hall" of
photos of current magistrates. After all, the vast majority of citizens
never meet face-to-face, and it would be nice to have a visual notion of
the people we are talking, debating, and discussing with.

There should also be an archive of photos of previous magistrates, by
year. It wouldn't be hard to put the pictures of all the magistrates for
the year into one composite picture, like a page from a yearbook, so that
clicking on the year would pull up that composite image.

For this year, it would be a pretty small image. In future years, as more
offices are filled, we might need to separate it out into more than one
composite.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.

Subject:	Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.
From:	dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:05:54 -0500 (CDT)

Yes, having pictures in a cyberhall might be a nice idea, but I
do disagree that this micronation exists solely in cyberspace.
The internet is just another medium where like-minded people can
exchange ideas and help to organize our institutions. Actions like
handing out flyers within local communities and having a presence at
events like pagan festivals or frequenting even Renaissance fairs or any
other community event will eventually lead to the establishment of local
activity groups of various kinds- whether religious in nature, guild
related, reading groups, or whatever.
In time hopefully many communities will have Nova Roma "communities
of people" available where citizens can participate in the things they,
as a group most wish to pursue.
As time goes on we do wish to establish landed areas if for no other
purpose than to establish areas of worship for Nova Roman pagans - a
temple dedidated to whatever god or goddess, or to even one day go
beyond just that one day far in the future and have a central area for
the public state sponsored religion and a forum somewhere.
Granted this isn't going to happen tommorrow, and maybe not even
within our lifetimes, but we can establish the foundations for that to
occur. There can be land acquired for other reasons too- such as a place
to gather regularly for other activities on a locallized level -
whatever that may be- anything is possible. My only point is that I
wouldn't discount anything.


Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: ritual correction?
From:
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:32:25 EDT

In a message dated 98-09-13 12:25:05 EDT, you write:

> I request that the College of Pontiffs re-examine the matter of the
"adoratio" gesture as it is included in our rituals. It was recently
changed from a gesture with arms uplifted and extended in a "Y" position
to a gesture in which one touches fingertips to the lips and flings the
hand out -- a kind of "kiss off" gesture.

The reason this was changed was actually to bring the rituals back into their
original form. The "Y" positoin DOES exist within Roman ritual, but it is not
the "Adoratio". This correction was made when we'd finally noticed the
mistake.

>The ancient illustrations of religious rites I have seen portray the
person officiating using the first gesture. It seems to be an almost
universal gesture of worship. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest
that Roman priests used the "kiss off" gesture in their rituals.

This "kiss off" gesture as you've called it is actually an offering of a kiss.
Possibly it could even be considered an offering of the breath of life.

> More to the point (for me), the first gesture feels natural and
appropriate, whereas the second feels ridiculous and inappropriate -- I'm
not inclined to "kiss off" the Divine.

If this single gesture is completely repugnant to you, I'm sure that it's not
a great affront to the gods to change it to the "Y" position. THAT position,
by the way, is actually a position of invocation of deity.

> If the "kiss off" gesture is really what is historically meant by the
term "adoratio" then perhaps we are using the wrong term.

Again, this term has been corrected back to it's original meaning. The error
was a small one that managed to escape notice for a few months. A lot has gone
into the Nova Roma site, and we've actually fairly lucky in regard to text
error.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

Subject:	The means and the ends.
From:	"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:49:28 +0100

Salvete omnes!

I must agree with Lucius Sulla. The idea of phisical existence for Nova Roma - and above all the reborn of the Religio Romana - is somewhat long term. It's that religion is a very social and cultural thing. While it is nowadays easy to be a christian (the majority of families tach their childs from the beginning), to be a Roman pagan demands culture and literacy, because the knowledge of the Roman Gods and culture is written in the books. I think this is the major obstacle to our expansion, and we must find some means to overcome it. The key is to approach the people, and this is a very difficult task.

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob--------Woolwin----------------us@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 8:04 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.


Ok everyone, lets just calm down a bit. THe long term objective of Nova Roma is to actually exist physically. However, that is a long term objective, and not one that will happen anytime soon. Right now, we are still trying to "reinvent" the culture, customs and traditions of Ancient Rome. Then, when that is complete (if it ever will be), then we need to concentrate on donations. Becuase, we will never be able to reach any substantial goal without financial contributions. Lets not concentrate on the ends, yet. But on the means to the ends. We dont want to upset any citizen on issues that at this time are completly irrelevant.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor

What came first the Chicken or the Egg?

-----Original Message-----
From: michael marconi mdm8@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 11:43 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.



Ira Adams wrote:

From: Ira Adams iadams@--------
> Hello,
>
> HOLD the bust!!!! Are we daydreaming or am I going insane? The
>idea
>of creating a bust can wait till Nova Roma is more established. We are
>placing
>the cart before the horse. First, lets get a homeland, to build this
>micronation,
>and then worry about the BUST.
>
> Thanks
>
>Lucius Marconius Romanus

Actually, you seem a bit confused about what is going on here. (I have no
idea whether you are insane or not. :-) ) Nobody is looking for a
"homeland," whatever that might be. This micronation exists in
"cyberspace"

Maybe, you read the fourth paragraph from 'Declaratio Nova Roma' wrong. The concept of a micronation is more than setting in front of a computer and living in "cyberspace." Obtaining land for a micronation is a fact!! Well, I see no need to throw stones at each other--for both of us are probably doing our best -as all citizens should.
Fortuna fortibus favet.
Vale
L. Marconius Romanus
as a community of like-minded (to _some_ extent, anyway)
individuals, and it is that community that we need to be building. Part
of the matter of any nation or community is its history. Thus it is
perfectly appropriate for us to begin an archive of those who have served
Nova Roma. This is an essential part of building our Mos Maiorum.
I agree with Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus, that we should have a "hall" of
photos of current magistrates. After all, the vast majority of citizens
never meet face-to-face, and it would be nice to have a visual notion of
the people we are talking, debating, and discussing with.

There should also be an archive of photos of previous magistrates, by
year. It wouldn't be hard to put the pictures of all the magistrates for
the year into one composite picture, like a page from a yearbook, so that
clicking on the year would pull up that composite image.

For this year, it would be a pretty small image. In future years, as more
offices are filled, we might need to separate it out into more than one
composite.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.

Subject:	Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.
From:	"Stuart Willia--------swillia--------...
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:31:13 +0100

I think it would be good to have pictures of all Nova Roma officials in a
virtual 'hall'; however, I would extend this principle further and suggest
the creation of a 'Hall of Citizens' also, where low resolution pictures of
all Nova Roma citizens could be placed, and from these pictures could be
made links to personal web sites with family trees if they have them.

This way, all would be known to all, and a greater bond between citizens
created. If there is insufficient space on the Nova Roma site, such a
'Hall' could be created on an extension of the site placed on free web space
such as that provided by Xoom. I would be prepared to volunteer to create
such a 'Hall of the Citizens' if my help in this wise would be welcomed, as
I have some small expertise in this area.

The onus would be on the individual citizens to provide scans of no larger
than 320x240 of their head and shoulders, ideally in jpeg format.

Marcus Valerius Secundus
Prospective Citizen
Legio XIIII GMV Domitores Britannorum
Near Letocetum, Britannia

Subject:	Re: Busts of Nova Roman Consuls.
From:	p-------- p--------@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:17:19 -0400 (EDT)

>From: Oplonti--------...
>
>Salvete,
>I like the idea of a "hall" on the site with pictures of the consuls - but why
>limit this to consuls ?

We actually have a photo gallery already, though I believe it only has
pictures of Roman Days last spring. If anyone has a Nova Roma-related
picture - perhaps of a local NR gathering, or of themselves or their legion
in Roman costume - please scan it and e-mail it to me with the relevant
information!

Patricia Cassia

Subject:	busts and micronations
From:	p-------- p--------@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:28:38 -0400 (EDT)

> Yes, having pictures in a cyberhall might be a nice idea, but I
>do disagree that this micronation exists solely in cyberspace.

Of course! It also exists in our minds - and, after the outpouring of
support and thought that follows Germanicus' resignation, I believe it
exists in our hearts as well. Many people care about the success of this
organization, and each one of us can do something to make it succeed.

Patricia Cassia

Subject:	Re: Dex's efforts
From:
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:57:01 EDT

In a message dated 98-09-12 21:29:49 EDT, you write:

<< All right, DEX! You'll get the Civic Crown or something for this! >>

LOL...I'd prefer it to be a tiara! : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Summer Sojourn
From:
Date:	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:56:52 EDT

Hello Fellow Romans,

I've been offline much of the summer--a combination of
holidays, a computer crash, and acquiring slowly a new
computer system.

Back online, I tried the old listmom.maine address to
re-activate my account. Deep, deep silence. Anyway,
finally I had the good sense to meander around the
website--and discovered you all had switched to Onelist.
I "think" I'm aboard, and I hope this address works.

If so, it's good to be back! I'm the lady who presented
the "Roman Wisdom" series. Not much wisdom right now,
but maybe later. :-)

Regards,
--Leonina Beatrix