Subject:	Why Rome is in Rome, not in Veii (was Re: Chat Issue)
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:47:55 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes...

Ericius said:

>p.s. Did you ever read the story of what decided them not to move the
>"city" to somewhere else? It's in Livy. A grunt can get a chuckle out
>of it.

Oh, yes...and remind me to include that one when I write up some of the
legendry for the Web site. There's the Senate, what's left of it,
arguing about whether to rebuild Rome after the sack-and-burn or
whether to move the whole show to some prefab Etruscan town; someone
brings up the favorable omens surrounding the founding of the City at
its present location; and just as everybody's in the mood for a sign
from the Gods, a centurion of one of Camillus' Legions parks the troops
in the Forum and tells the standard-bearer "Plant 'er there, Sergeant,
this is where we're gonna stay...' The Senate, for once, decided to
take the advice of an old non-com! My Web rendition will be more
graceful than the preceding, but for those unfamiliar with the tale
that's the gist of it...

Enjoy!
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Why Rome is in Rome, not in Veii
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 03:26:05 -0700 (PDT)

> >p.s. Did you ever read the story of what decided them not to move
the
> >"city" to somewhere else? It's in Livy. A grunt can get a chuckle
out
> >of it.
>
> Oh, yes...and remind me to include that one when I write up some of
the
> legendry for the Web site. There's the Senate, what's left of it,
> arguing about whether to rebuild Rome after the sack-and-burn or
> whether to move the whole show to some prefab Etruscan town; someone
> brings up the favorable omens surrounding the founding of the City at
> its present location; and just as everybody's in the mood for a sign
> from the Gods, a centurion of one of Camillus' Legions parks the
troops
> in the Forum and tells the standard-bearer "Plant 'er there,
Sergeant,
> this is where we're gonna stay...' The Senate, for once, decided to
> take the advice of an old non-com! My Web rendition will be more
> graceful than the preceding, but for those unfamiliar with the tale
> that's the gist of it...
>
> Enjoy!


I wrote an essay which started out from that passage in Livy last
year, about Rome as a sacred space, and the sacred boundary of the
pomerium, which defined that space. Livy presents the arguments for
staying in Rome in the form of a speech from the dictator, Camillus
(NB - remember a 'dictator' in this context is an emergency military
leader, _not_ a tyrant!). The basic arguments centre around the idea
that the actual physical space occupied by Rome is not just neutral
ground, but the home of her gods. Camillus argues that the sacred
cults of Rome cannot be moved without committing sacrilege, since the
places where religious rites are performed are an essential part of
the rituals. The speech is obviously unlikely to be even remotely
linked to what Camillus actually said (if anything), since these
events took place c. 350 years before Livy was born, but it does
present what seems to have been the prevailing view of Rome's cults in
Livy's day (late republic / early empire). Foreign cults might (or
might not) be physically accepted into the city of Rome - until this
happened, they did not become part of the official state religion.
This strikes me as an interesting issue for Nova Roma, since our
nation is virtual, and (as yet) has no physical centre. I guess this
is part of the reason why the constitution states that property on
which a Nova Roman ritual or gathering is taking place becomes Nova
Roman 'territory' for the duration of the ritual. Since the gods of
Rome have a fundamental link with the physical land which is Rome, our
rituals would presumably be ineffective if they did not take place on
what was at least temporarily Nova Roman territory. As I understand
it, because of this link, the very act of performing the ritual makes
the land on which it takes place spiritually 'Roman'.
Anyone have any further thoughts on this? It's something to muse
over, anyway.
Valete,
Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************

Subject:	Web address
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:37:34 -0500

Salve

I have been able to update my page a bit. Is the Nova Roma address still
www.novaroma.org? Or was it just down that day?

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

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Subject:	Re: Web address
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:18:01 -0400

Salve

The new url is

<a href="http://novaroma.org/" target="_top" >http://novaroma.org/</a>

- Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: Amethyst C Light amethystcrystallight@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 8:43 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Web address


>From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
>Salve
>
>I have been able to update my page a bit. Is the Nova Roma address still
>www.novaroma.org? Or was it just down that day?
>
>Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
>amethystcrystallight@--------
><a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com</a>
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
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Subject:	Re: Web address
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:34:15 EDT

In a message dated 10/14/98 8:43:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
amethystcrystallight@-------- writes:

<<
I have been able to update my page a bit. Is the Nova Roma address still
www.novaroma.org? Or was it just down that day?
>>

There is no new URL. The server that we're with has gone down twice in one
month... we're contacting them today to do some serious complaining.

The Nova Roma website is still at: <a href="http://www.novaroma.org" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org</a>

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: Why Rome is in Rome, not in Veii
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:02:02 EDT

In a message dated 10/14/98 6:23:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- writes:

<<
I wrote an essay which started out from that passage in Livy last
year, about Rome as a sacred space, and the sacred boundary of the
pomerium, which defined that space. Livy presents the arguments for
staying in Rome in the form of a speech from the dictator, Camillus
(NB - remember a 'dictator' in this context is an emergency military
leader, _not_ a tyrant!). The basic arguments centre around the idea
that the actual physical space occupied by Rome is not just neutral
ground, but the home of her gods. Camillus argues that the sacred
cults of Rome cannot be moved without committing sacrilege, since the
places where religious rites are performed are an essential part of
the rituals. The speech is obviously unlikely to be even remotely
linked to what Camillus actually said (if anything), since these
events took place c. 350 years before Livy was born, but it does
present what seems to have been the prevailing view of Rome's cults in
Livy's day (late republic / early empire). Foreign cults might (or
might not) be physically accepted into the city of Rome - until this
happened, they did not become part of the official state religion.

It was definitely accepted that Rome itself was a place of power, and
historical events have more or less shown that to be a fair assumption! As far
as foreign cults, this had more to do with society than actual place... there
was always some suspicion of how a religion would change the "national
charachter" of Rome itself.

> This strikes me as an interesting issue for Nova Roma, since our
nation is virtual, and (as yet) has no physical centre. I guess this
is part of the reason why the constitution states that property on
which a Nova Roman ritual or gathering is taking place becomes Nova
Roman 'territory' for the duration of the ritual. Since the gods of
Rome have a fundamental link with the physical land which is Rome, our
rituals would presumably be ineffective if they did not take place on
what was at least temporarily Nova Roman territory. As I understand
it, because of this link, the very act of performing the ritual makes
the land on which it takes place spiritually 'Roman'.
Anyone have any further thoughts on this? It's something to muse
over, anyway.

The "temporary territory" concept was indeed created for this purpose, in
additioin to being yet another Micronational claim. Even so, I seriously doubt
that anyone in the ancient world believed that the Roman deities were
ineffective outside of Rome itself. There were certainly enough foreign
Provincia in which the Religio Romana was practiced! We of course do consider
Rome to be a "spiritual homeland"... even with the Vatican sitting on top of
it! ;)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Valete,
Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica. >>

Subject:	New Flamen Martialis! :)
From:	NovaRomaNH@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:31:09 EDT

Salvete, Omnes,

I'm pleased to announce to the list that the Pontificial College has completed
it's second vote, on the application from Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus for the
position of Flamen Martialis.

The Collegia has voted a unanimous YES! Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus is now the
Flamen Martialis of Nova Roma. He is charged with establishing and guiding the
worship of Mars within our Micronation... if any of you Reenactor folks out
there are interested in involvement with the cult of Mars, Cincinnatus is the
person to contact!
We'll be adding his Email address to the Priesthood page this week.

Congratulations L. Equitius Cincinnatus, our new Flamen Martialis! :)

On another note... if you have an application before the Pontificial College,
please do bear with us. The process of choosing priests within Religio Romana
is far from a "rubber stamp" process! We've been evaluating everything, and
have needed to contact candidates for more information so some of the voting
is taking time. If anyone has specific questions about their application, or
would like to apply, please send an Email to the Pontiffs through the
Priesthood page on the Nova Roma site.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: New Flamen Martialis! :)
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:00:08 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete!


I would like to say a hearty Congratulations Cin!!

I'm sure you will do well in your job.


Nocturnia


---Nov------------------------ wrote:
>
> From: Nov------------------------
>
> Salvete, Omnes,
>
> I'm pleased to announce to the list that the Pontificial College has
completed
> it's second vote, on the application from Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus for the
> position of Flamen Martialis.
>
> The Collegia has voted a unanimous YES! Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
is now the
> Flamen Martialis of Nova Roma. He is charged with establishing and
guiding the
> worship of Mars within our Micronation... if any of you Reenactor
folks out
> there are interested in involvement with the cult of Mars,
Cincinnatus is the
> person to contact!
> We'll be adding his Email address to the Priesthood page this week.
>
> Congratulations L. Equitius Cincinnatus, our new Flamen Martialis! :)
>
> On another note... if you have an application before the Pontificial
College,
> please do bear with us. The process of choosing priests within
Religio Romana
> is far from a "rubber stamp" process! We've been evaluating
everything, and
> have needed to contact candidates for more information so some of
the voting
> is taking time. If anyone has specific questions about their
application, or
> would like to apply, please send an Email to the Pontiffs through the
> Priesthood page on the Nova Roma site.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
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Subject:	Re: Chat Issue
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:23:38 EDT

In a message dated 98-10-13 00:28:32 EDT, you write:

<< I just wanted to drop everyone a line...especially if you know me in the
Forum, that my handle, Sulla, has been used by a lurker who is spewing his
hatred in the chat room. I am not the one doing it. and Avidus Tullus
Callidus and Marius Fimbra have witnessed this happening first hand. I just
wanted to let everyone know, that I am not the one.

Now back to your regular sponsered mailing list. :) >>

Well, I haven't been in the chat rooms lately but I am appalled to hear that
anyone (either Nova Roman or not) is espousing hatred. And it is even worse
that someone would use your handle to do it.

Being already pissed off about the hatred being espoused even after the death
of Matthew Shepard, I'm in a no tolerance mood right now!

FIND THE HATE AND KILL IT!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Chat Issue
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:27:07 EDT

In a message dated 98-10-13 03:48:24 EDT, you write:

<< Not all, not even most, but *some* of these pests can be turned around
by a noble and dignified example. Let us turn the same face to them
that the Conscript Fathers did to the invading Gauls. Let's show them
what CIVILIZATION means, and what it is to be a part of something
deeper and more vast than the flurries and excitements of the moment. >>

And if we can carry this beyond the chat room, then we will create a better
world!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Chat Issue
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:25:55 EDT

In a message dated 98-10-13 01:00:52 EDT, you write:

<< Dammit Dex, are you sure you can't get onto talk city? :) >>


I cannot get into Talk City. However, I do not want to be the one holding
everyone back. If the majority wish to go with Talk City, please make the
move. I have not been a frequent visitor to the chat room due to personal
evening commitments so I do not feel it right that I keep us from progress
just in the seldom event that I can join a chat every now and then.


--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Why Rome is in Rome, not in Veii
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:48:10 EDT

In a message dated 98-10-14 11:05:38 EDT, you write:

<< We of course do consider
Rome to be a "spiritual homeland"... even with the Vatican sitting on top of
it! ;) >>

Ho-hum...I own the Vatican. I'm just letting the Pope rent it out for the
moment. Afterall, I don't have the heart to kick an old man out of his
apartment!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: New Flamen Martialis! :)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:51:42 EDT

In a message dated 98-10-14 15:02:23 EDT, you write:

<< I would like to say a hearty Congratulations Cin!!

I'm sure you will do well in your job. >>


I second that! Now get Mars to kick some ass on that chat room!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Why Rome is in Rome, not in Veii
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:14:39 -0400

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-10-14 11:05:38 EDT, you write:
>
> << We of course do consider
> Rome to be a "spiritual homeland"... even with the Vatican sitting on top of
> it! ;) >>
>
> Ho-hum...I own the Vatican. I'm just letting the Pope rent it out for the
> moment. Afterall, I don't have the heart to kick an old man out of his
> apartment!
>
Even if his apartment's big enough to house a small country?
And Dex, did you ever wonder about that guy? He wears all that jewelry,
those cute satin slippers, and he wears a dress with a lot of gold
embroidery. Now, does that just shout "bad drag" or WHAT?

Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Chat room change
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:35:57 -0400 (EDT)

Dear Nova Romans,

In order to deal with the chat-room pest we have moved to a new chat room
on BeSeen. The new URL is now linked from the Forum Romanum page
(<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/forum_romanum.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/forum_romanum.html</a>), but those of you who have
the chat room bookmarked separately will want to change that address to
<a href="http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/w/10275" target="_top" >http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/w/10275</a>.

The "new" Beseen rooms feature some new commands. I reproduce the
instructions below. Troublesome chatters can be "ignored" or "booted." If
two people get together and boot someone, that person cannot join the chat
for 2 minutes (we can adjust the number of people and the time).

I strongly recommend using "ignore" to filter out the comments of a
disgusting person, rather than taking action against him. These people just
want attention, and now we have a way to keep them from getting it.

Beseen also has an option to pay a one-time $19.95 fee to get rid of the
top ad and gain the power to filter out objectionable words and permanently
ban certain people. If these options are important to the Citizenry,
perhaps one or more chat users might consider contributing this amount.

Patricia Cassia

_________

Instructions for the new chat room are the same as for the old one, but
include these options:

** Whisper: Whispering allows you to say something privately to another
chatter. Other chatters will see you whispering, but they can't hear what
you're saying. Enter your message like "/w Handle Message".
For instance, entering:

/w Bob How are you?

(and press "Say It!", or the Return key) Sends the message "How are you?"
privately to Bob. No one else will be able to see what you said.

** Ignore: If someone is being a pest, you may simply ignore them. Enter
the command "/i Handle" to ignore a specific person.
For example:

/i Bob

(and press "Say It!" or the Return key)
Will filter out all messages from Bob. Bob can talk all he wants, but you
can't hear him.

** Un-ignore: This allows you to stop ignoring someone. This command has
the form "/u Handle".
For example:

/u Bob

(and press "Say It!" or the Return key)
Will allow you to once again hear what Bob is saying. (If you weren't
really ignoring Bob in the first place, this has no effect)

** Action: The action command lets you describe what you are doing. The
command has the form "/a what you are doing".
For example (assuming your handle is Bob), entering:

/a taps his foot impatiently

(and hitting "Say It!" or the Return key)
causes the screen to display:
** Bob taps his foot impatiently ** , allowing everyone to know what you
are up to.

** Boot: You may "boot" people out of the chat room. This parameter is
configurable by the room owner and may not be allowed in all chat rooms.
Each chat room has a "booting level" which corresponds to the number of
different peo ple which have to "boot" someone before they are knocked
out of the room for a certain period of time. This command has the form
"/b Handle"
For example, entering:

/b Bob

(and press "Say It!" or the Return key)
Will give Bob the "boot". Once enough people have "booted" Bob, he will
be banished for a certain number of minutes (configurable by the room
owner). Bob will see a message which tells him that he has been booted,
giving the number o f seconds until he is allowed back in.

Subject:	and more on chat
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:40:27 -0400 (EDT)

Good point, Ms. Claudia! I just went and tried to register for the new
Beseen room using the same handle by which I'm already registered. It
wouldn't let me.

Now, I imagine that if you register as the same name with a space after it,
you could get in -but then we could boot or ignore the one with the space.

Patricia Cassia

Subject:	Names of the Months
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:00:25 -0700

Salvete!

I'm posting this to the entire list so as to get input from the folk who are
truly Latin enabled.

My understanding, and my Latin dictionary has the months that end in "-ber"
actually doing that in Latin. e.g October. My Latin dictionary has it as
October -bris.
The names are not in the form "Octobrus" like our calendar page shows. They are
actually
September
October
November
December.
The Seventh, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth months in the old calendar where the
year began with mensis Martius.

I've been meaning to ask this of Rusticus, but I haven't run into him for a while.

Valete.
Ericius

Subject:	Re: New Flamen Martialis! :)
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:24:21 -0700

Salve Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Flamen Martialis!

Salus et Fortuna!

Benedictus ex Civis Germanicus,

Vale,

Stephanus Ullerius Venator, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria