| Subject: |
Re: Announcement of New Member in Gens Luciania |
| From: |
Diana T Hanley Bergman proserpina@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 03 Nov 1998 04:12:20 -0500 |
|
At 15:13 02/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>Salvete Omni,
>
>It is with great pleasure and honor that I formally announce the
acceptance of
>Iustina Luciania Orbianna into Gens Luciania.
>
>Orbianna has shown herself to be a dear and kind-hearted person with whom
I am
>pleased to be aquainted. Having been extremely patient with my application
>process and in my ability to return e-mail and telephone calls at this
time of
>year (Samhain), I am pleased to finally be able to announce her membership.
>
>Orbianna has an extensive academic background in the classics and classical
>religion. I'm sure she will be a source of knowledge to all of us.
>
>Please join me in welcoming Iustina Luciania Orbianna to Nova Roma and Gens
>Luciania!
>
>Ave Orbianna!
>
Gratias, Dex, for your kind introduction, and gratia to those of you who
offered an initial greeting. It's a pleasure for me to be a part of this
group. As Dex has said, my academic interest resides within the classics.
I'm a recent graduate school dropout, having found that the academic route
was no longer my path for reasons to detailed to explain at this time.
Outside of scholarly interest classical religion has always held a place
within my spirit, though I had a difficult time separating the academic
aspect from the spiritual calling I felt. I was a pagan, but I hadn't yet
realized that there were people who used the classical pantheon and
incorporated that into their spirituality. A number of weeks ago a mutual
friend of mine and Flavia's (aka as Lilith), Kerowyn, informed me that
Lilith was involved with a group that was supporting the rebuilding of the
ancient Roman religion. I hadn't spoken to Lilith since the last time I was
in Salem, last October, so I figured it was as good a time as any to
re-establish communication (Lilith is way cool anyway). So I wrote to her
and visited the Nova Roma website, and lo and behold, here I am!!!
It was pure irony that my path crossed with Dex again. I've attended some
gatherings held by a group to which he belongs. I found his gens to be
highly intriguing, so I emailed him, and our common ties were revealed soon
thereafter. I would venture to say that this newly formed connection with
Dex and the rest of Nova Roma has been written in the stars for me.
If you'd like to visit my website, feel free to peruse my garden at
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
Valete,
Orbianna
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------
proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
Scientia est potentia. -Francis Bacon
In Venere semper dulcis est dementia. -Publius Syrus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Announcement of New Member in Gens Luciania |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:47:14 -0000 |
|
Salve Luciania Orbianna!
The Praetor for the Lusitania Provincia welcomes you to Nova Roma!
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dexippus@-------- Dexippus@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 8:16 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement of New Member in Gens Luciania
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>Salvete Omni,
>
>It is with great pleasure and honor that I formally announce the acceptance
of
>Iustina Luciania Orbianna into Gens Luciania.
>
>Orbianna has shown herself to be a dear and kind-hearted person with whom I
am
>pleased to be aquainted. Having been extremely patient with my application
>process and in my ability to return e-mail and telephone calls at this time
of
>year (Samhain), I am pleased to finally be able to announce her membership.
>
>Orbianna has an extensive academic background in the classics and classical
>religion. I'm sure she will be a source of knowledge to all of us.
>
>Please join me in welcoming Iustina Luciania Orbianna to Nova Roma and Gens
>Luciania!
>
>Ave Orbianna!
>
>Vale,
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Explanations |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:50:58 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes!
It would seem that the time has arrived for an explanation regarding my
departure from Nova Roma in September and recent return. I'm sorry it's taken
so long for me to make a public statement, but the circumstances touched me
very personally and deeply. Indeed, I'm still keeping some of the details to
myself.
Simply put, the night before my fateful announcement, I underwent a spiritual
crisis. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Religio Romana and the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome were forever closed to me. Up until that time, the
Religio Romana was central to my involvement with Nova Roma (which, of course,
had originally been conceived by Cassius and myself as a purely religious
organization). Because of these extremely close ties (in my own mind), I
thought the best thing would be to make a clean break, and thus I not only
left my religious positions and offices, but secular as well.
It took nearly six weeks for me to realize it, but that was far too drastic a
course for me to have taken. It may have seemed appropriate to me at the time,
but over the last month and a half I came to realize that I could still
participate meaningfully in Nova Roma and not be involved in its religious
aspects (after all, a large number of Nova Romans aren't practitioners of the
Religio Romana, either). Given that gradual realization, I decided to reapply
for Citizenship.
Many of you know that I have also asked to be reinstated to the Senate (rumors
to the contrary, I do not want any other position within the government). My
motive for asking this is to once again have a voice, one among many, in
guiding the Republic that I helped found. My original resignation was
unnecessary, and I hope my vision and knowledge still have a place within our
society.
I hope that answers a few questions. It's good to be back.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Nova Roma bookstore |
| From: |
pjane pjane@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:28:29 -0500 (EST) |
|
At Ericius' request I've added a small section on Roman Literature
(including the Virgil book he wanted) to the Nova Roma bookstore
(<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html</a>).
Just a reminder: If there's a book you need, you can order it and help
support Nova Roma through this page. If there are books you think we should
offer that aren't there, send them to me (with ISBN numbers if possible)
and I'll add them.
If there's an area of Roman-related literature in which you're
knowledgable, I'm sure your fellow Nova Romans would appreciate your
sharing your expertise about which books are most valuable. For instance,
there are tons of Latin-language learning books out there, and I bet
someone here has expertise in that area or has sampled several of them.
Patricia Cassia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma bookstore |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:11:40 -0500 |
|
Ave et Salvete
>
>At Ericius' request I've added a small section on Roman Literature
>(including the Virgil book he wanted)
C Aelius Ericius wanted that book too? ;-) L Equitius
>to the Nova Roma bookstore
(<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html</a>).
>
>Just a reminder: If there's a book you need, you can order it and help
>support Nova Roma through this page. If there are books you think we should
>offer that aren't there, send them to me (with ISBN numbers if possible)
>and I'll add them.
>
This MAY take a day or two longer to set up but you will be supporting Nova
Roma.
BTW, Patricia do you still have the list of Lindset Davis books? I can
resend them to you.
Vale L Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:15:37 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Salve Germanicus!
First of all, welcome again to Nova Roma! I'm very grateful to you, not only
because are a founder of Nova Roma, but also because I will never forget it
is because of you that I'm currently the Praetor of the Lusitania Provincia.
>but over the last month and a half I came to realize that I could still
>participate meaningfully in Nova Roma and not be involved in its religious
>aspects (after all, a large number of Nova Romans aren't practitioners of
the
>Religio Romana, either). Given that gradual realization, I decided to
reapply
>for Citizenship.
>Many of you know that I have also asked to be reinstated to the Senate
(rumors
>to the contrary, I do not want any other position within the government).
My
>motive for asking this is to once again have a voice, one among many, in
>guiding the Republic that I helped found.
Our sacred constitution says the following:
"Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods,
the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators shall
be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
In my opinion, in order to have Flavius Germanicus again as senator, there
are two alternatives:
1 - Germanicus must be willing to sacrifice to the Gods of Rome.
2 - The Constitution is changed according to its currently prescribed
precepts. Any sugestions?
Now, the oath of office:
"(...)
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, (name) swear TO DO HONOR TO THE GODS AND
GODESSES OF ROME IN MY PUBLIC DEALINGS, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in
my public and private life.
(...)
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and IN THE PRESENCE OF THE GODS AND
GODESSES OF THE ROMAN PEOPLE AND BY THEIR WILL AND FAVOR, do I accept the
position of (title of magistracy) and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto."
Well, does it also have to change? At least it should include:
"I shall always accept the Religio Romana as the official religion of Nova
Roma."
Valete omnes!
Vale Germanicus!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 5:12 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Explanations
>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>Salvete Omnes!
>
>It would seem that the time has arrived for an explanation regarding my
>departure from Nova Roma in September and recent return. I'm sorry it's
taken
>so long for me to make a public statement, but the circumstances touched me
>very personally and deeply. Indeed, I'm still keeping some of the details
to
>myself.
>
>Simply put, the night before my fateful announcement, I underwent a
spiritual
>crisis. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Religio Romana and the
>Gods and Goddesses of Rome were forever closed to me. Up until that time,
the
>Religio Romana was central to my involvement with Nova Roma (which, of
course,
>had originally been conceived by Cassius and myself as a purely religious
>organization). Because of these extremely close ties (in my own mind), I
>thought the best thing would be to make a clean break, and thus I not only
>left my religious positions and offices, but secular as well.
>
>It took nearly six weeks for me to realize it, but that was far too drastic
a
>course for me to have taken. It may have seemed appropriate to me at the
time,
>but over the last month and a half I came to realize that I could still
>participate meaningfully in Nova Roma and not be involved in its religious
>aspects (after all, a large number of Nova Romans aren't practitioners of
the
>Religio Romana, either). Given that gradual realization, I decided to
reapply
>for Citizenship.
>
>Many of you know that I have also asked to be reinstated to the Senate
(rumors
>to the contrary, I do not want any other position within the government).
My
>motive for asking this is to once again have a voice, one among many, in
>guiding the Republic that I helped found. My original resignation was
>unnecessary, and I hope my vision and knowledge still have a place within
our
>society.
>
>I hope that answers a few questions. It's good to be back.
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:24:31 EST |
|
Welcome back Germanicus,
I would be interested to know what "crisis" you felt with the Religio Romana.
Would be quite interesting.
Are you running for Senate in December?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma bookstore |
| From: |
pjane pjane@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:39:52 -0500 (EST) |
|
>C Aelius Ericius wanted that book too? ;-) L Equitius
Edepol, I'm an idiot! I meant Equitius, of course, and my apologies to your
noble self.
>BTW, Patricia do you still have the list of Lindset Davis books? I can
>resend them to you.
Check the page - I think they're on there.
Patricia Cassia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:27:10 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 13:13:26 EST, you write:
<< In my opinion, in order to have Flavius Germanicus again as senator, there
are two alternatives:
1 - Germanicus must be willing to sacrifice to the Gods of Rome.
2 - The Constitution is changed according to its currently prescribed
precepts. Any sugestions? >>
Well...I don't know how much of this is serious...but I do not allocate any
change in the constitution.
--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
Augur, Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:38:21 -0000 |
|
Salve Dexippe!
>Well...I don't know how much of this is serious...but I do not allocate any
>change in the constitution.
Ok! I forgot the 3rd alternative:
3 - Ignore the Constitution and pretend that nothing has appened.
I don't agree with the 3rd... And I don't think that the people would agree
either =).
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dexippus@-------- Dexippus@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 6:27 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Explanations
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-03 13:13:26 EST, you write:
>
><< In my opinion, in order to have Flavius Germanicus again as senator,
there
> are two alternatives:
> 1 - Germanicus must be willing to sacrifice to the Gods of Rome.
> 2 - The Constitution is changed according to its currently prescribed
> precepts. Any sugestions? >>
>
>
>Well...I don't know how much of this is serious...but I do not allocate any
>change in the constitution.
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:44:56 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 13:12:29 EST, you write:
> Our sacred constitution says the following:
> "Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
> engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods,
> the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators
shall
> be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma bookstore |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:49:41 -0500 |
|
Salve
>>C Aelius Ericius wanted that book too? ;-) L Equitius
>
>Edepol, I'm an idiot!
NO, not at all
>I meant Equitius, of course, and my apologies to your noble self.
>
Good Grief, I'm just kidding around no apology please, but thanks for the
"noble self" moniker.
>>BTW, Patricia do you still have the list of Lindsey Davis books? I can
>>resend them to you.
>
>Check the page - I think they're on there.
OK, I'll just pass them along if they are not there.
Vale L Equitius
|
| Subject: |
New Member |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:10:42 -0500 (EST) |
|
Welcome to the World of Nova Roma! I am sure that you will find us at
least and if nothing else "different."
I am sure that as a part of Dex's family you will seldom have the time
to be morose, as he is most skilled at keeping everyone cheered up.
I look forward to getting to know you better, and working with you on
projects as yet unamed.
All the best to you and your gens!
Marcus Municius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune
of Engineering and Cartography
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:25:32 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
Well, I think that you have much to give to Nova Roma and I think that your
withdrawal will be very bad for all of us... Although I defend the Religio
Romana, I also think that we cannot forget what our friends and allies did
for us. Citizen Germanicus did a lot for Nova Roma, much more than I and
most of you have given...
Until 1974, Portugal had a dictatorship, which led our people to an unfair
colonial war that we could not win... A few captains decided to make a 'coup
d'etat', and on April 25th 1974, the dictatorship fell. Since then, Portugal
is a democracy... Many of those captains defended positions that you would
call 'socialist' or 'communist'... But their ideals did not win, and were
checked by another group of officers, who before the 25th April revolution
were on the side of the dictatorship, but afterwards magically turned into
democrats. Today, the captains that gave us freedom are still captains, and
the generals who defended the 'ancien regime' are marshals. The people have
forgotten the men who gave them freedom and democracy. Maybe it is my heart
speaking (bad for a politician), but I would not like the same to happen in
Nova Roma.
A definition of democracy should include:
"The goal of the government is the happyness of the people."
Nova Roma is a democracy by its Constitution. I have reasons to believe that
the people would be happy if Germanicus was accepted as Senator, if he swore
to respect the Religio Romana as the official religion of Nova Roma. Would
you let the people decide?
Valete omnes!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 6:49 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Explanations
>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-03 13:12:29 EST, you write:
>
>> Our sacred constitution says the following:
>> "Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
>> engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the
Gods,
>> the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators
>shall
>> be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
>
>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
>
>Germanicus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"RMerullo" merullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:09:02 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
>
>Are you running for Senate in December?
>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that senators were
inducted by sitting senators from the set of magistrates, rather than
elected by the comitiae from the Novaroman population at large.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Thank you was Explanations |
| From: |
"RMerullo" merullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:57:22 -0500 |
|
Salve Flavi Vedi
Welcome back. Dont you think that you should have waited a little while
longer? I am confident that you would have been deified within another 4-5
months.
Seriously, though, I look forward to chatting with and getting to know you.
Now seems like a good time to say thank you to you and Marcus Cassius
Iulianus for establishing this organization in the manner that you did. As
Damianus Lucianus Dexippus recently was saying, an organization dedicated to
the study and re-creation of Roma could have been done a lot differently,
emphasizing imperial institutions. Your choice of Republican institutions
and your crafting of the constitution have been very wise.
>Many of you know that I have also asked to be reinstated to the Senate
(rumors
>to the contrary, I do not want any other position within the government).
My
>motive for asking this is to once again have a voice, one among many, in
>guiding the Republic that I helped found. My original resignation was
>unnecessary, and I hope my vision and knowledge still have a place within
our
>society.
>
What would happen to the poor miscreant who objected to Germanicus' return
to the senate? Has a suitable substitute for the Tarpeian rock been found?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:25:58 -0500 |
|
>Salvete omnes!
>>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
>Well, I think that you have much to give to Nova Roma and I think that your
>withdrawal will be very bad for all of us... Citizen Germanicus did a lot
for Nova Roma, much more than I and most of you have given...
Agreed.
<Snip>
>A definition of democracy should include:
>"The goal of the government is the happyness of the people."
>Nova Roma is a democracy by its Constitution.
This is incorrect Nova Roma is a Republic.
>I have reasons to believe that the people would be happy if Germanicus was
>accepted as Senator, if he swore to respect the Religio Romana as the
official >religion of Nova Roma. Would you let the people decide?
>
You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow it.
The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
itself.
Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus
>Valete omnes!
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
:
>>
>>> Our sacred constitution says the following:
>>> "Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
>>> engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the
>Gods,
>>> the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators
>>shall
>>> be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
>>
>>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
>>
>>Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:36:46 -0000 |
|
Salve Lucius!
>You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow it.
>The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
>itself.
Yes, I know. But in case the Censors and the Senate appoint Germanicus as
Senator, that would also violate the Constitution. As such, agreement could
be achieved through having the people decide. My point is that I know almost
all Senators and Censors are close friends of Germanicus...
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius v--------l@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:27 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Explanations
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
>>Salvete omnes!
>
>>>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
>>Well, I think that you have much to give to Nova Roma and I think that
your
>>withdrawal will be very bad for all of us... Citizen Germanicus did a lot
>for Nova Roma, much more than I and most of you have given...
>
>
>Agreed.
>
><Snip>
>>A definition of democracy should include:
>>"The goal of the government is the happyness of the people."
>>Nova Roma is a democracy by its Constitution.
>
>This is incorrect Nova Roma is a Republic.
>
>>I have reasons to believe that the people would be happy if Germanicus was
>>accepted as Senator, if he swore to respect the Religio Romana as the
>official >religion of Nova Roma. Would you let the people decide?
>>
>You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow it.
>The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
>itself.
>
>Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus
>
>>Valete omnes!
>>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>:
>>>
>>>> Our sacred constitution says the following:
>>>> "Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
>>>> engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the
>>Gods,
>>>> the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators
>>>shall
>>>> be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
>>>
>>>Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
>>>
>>>Germanicus
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Robert Woolwine" Alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:02:11 -0800 |
|
That is correct.. the Citizens do not vote for Senators..they are
recommended by the Consuls and voted by the Senate.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: RMerullo merullo@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:11 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Explanations
>From: "RMerullo" merullo@--------
>
>Salvete Dexippe et alii
>
>>
>>Are you running for Senate in December?
>>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that senators were
>inducted by sitting senators from the set of magistrates, rather than
>elected by the comitiae from the Novaroman population at large.
>
>Valete
>
>
>Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:15:39 -0500 |
|
>Salve Lucius!
>>You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow
it.
>>The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
>>itself.
>Yes, I know. But in case the Censors and the Senate appoint Germanicus >>as
>Senator, that would also violate the Constitution. As such, agreement could
>be achieved through having the people decide. My point is that I know
almost
>all Senators and Censors are close friends of Germanicus...
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
Ave et Salvete Cives
I'm sorry everyone, but I really resent this. We are trying to follow
the Constitution without reguard to personal relationships.
Not that it is any of your business Graecus, but I myself have meet
Germanicus once in person and talked to him maybe twice on the phone. Is
that what you call a close friend?
I would have sent this private but the last time I sent a private email
to you, Graecus, and requested you keep it that way you choose to respond
publicly.
L Equitius
|
| Subject: |
Address again |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:06:10 -0600 |
|
OK....I give up...what's the mailing address for Nova Roma again?????
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma bookstore |
| From: |
Ricci razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:55:57 -0800 |
|
I remembered saying something about enlarging the Bookstore, but
I was sure I didn't ask for a Vergil book. I'm glad it was
cleared up, I was starting to wonder about alzheimer's.
I might send you some other book suggestions, but later.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
The Explaination |
| From: |
Masterofhistory masterofhistory@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:53:35 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I awoke to find a group of messages on the subject of Germanicus'
return.
In a message dated 98-11-03 13:12:29 EST, you write:
> Our sacred constitution says the following:
> "Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may
not
> engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the
Gods,
> the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and
Senators
shall
> be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
Excellent point. I withdraw my request for reappointment to the Senate.
Germanicus
What's wrong with all of you? This is Germanicus you are talking
about. I and many Nova Romans would be happy to see him back in the
Senate. Constitution, I kept reading... Germanicus helped write the
thing! We ought to be more welcoming and more generous to the man who
helped start it all.
I suppose, however that the final decision rests with the current
Consuls and Senate who know Germanicus best. If Germanicus really
withdrew his request, I hope it was on his own volition and not under
pressure.
I for one am glad he is back.
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Qf Callidus, Praedans
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Candidate for Tribune of the People
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 03 Nov 1998 18:39:52 -0800 |
|
Unto Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Does Stephanus Ullerius Venator,
Present Greetings and Salutations;
My Friend, I thank you for the explanation you chose to give. In light
of this, I agree that your resignation was a drastic measure taken in
haste. Well Come Home!
I appreciate the efforts you made to help establish the New City. I
also hope that you can contribute at a level commensurate with your
time, talent and interest.
As I am one of the persons you refer to, indirectly, yes - there is life
in Rome for non-Religio people, as the welcome I have had shows.
Thanks again,
In Frith, Faith and for Rome,
Venator
|
| Subject: |
The constitution was Explanations |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" merullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:00:53 -0500 |
|
Salvete
Well, personal differences between Cincinnatus and Graecus certainly arent
my business, nor do I want them to be.
In all fairness, however, I dont think that Graecus ever meant to discourage
Germanicus from taking a seat in the Senate. He was merely pointing out
that there was a point in the Constitution barring anyone from that august
body who does not follow Religio Romana in the Nova Roma public.
Now, the Constitution is our basic law; no Nova Roman can overthrow it; to
attempt to do so is to renounce one's belonging here. At the same time, no
law, however fundamental, is so finally written that it cannot be ammended.
For what it's worth, the Constitution probably will have to be changed soon
anyway, since it contains an erroneous point about the comitiae and
elections, namely, it refers to a 'comitia curiata' in the language about
removing a citizen, but fails to identify 'comitia curiata' in the section
on voting and comitiae.
As Germanicus, co-founder of our Micronation, has returned and expressed a
desire to rejoin the Senate, cannot the Senate consider ammending the
Constitution to allow him to do that, and, perhaps in the same session,
review the section on elections?
I for one find it hard to believe that the Senate wouldn't be better off
with him than without him. I dont know him at all personally, but I am
going on the basis of his work with M. Cassius Iulianus in setting Nova Roma
up, and the limited communication (bordering on trivial, I know) I had with
him when I was applying for citizenship.
I havent been elected to speak for the people, nor am I senator, magistrate
or anything else, but I'll say my piece anyway. We have magistrates and
pontiffs to oversee administration of Religio Romana; is it worth it to
aleinate Germanicus from the Senate, just to maintain a religiously pure
Senate, when the public religious duties are already covered by our elected
magistrates?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius v--------l@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 5:43 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Explanations
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
>
>>Salve Lucius!
>>>You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow
>it.
>>>The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the
Senate
>>>itself.
>
>>Yes, I know. But in case the Censors and the Senate appoint Germanicus
>>as
>>Senator, that would also violate the Constitution. As such, agreement
could
>>be achieved through having the people decide. My point is that I know
>almost
>>all Senators and Censors are close friends of Germanicus...
>>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>>
>Ave et Salvete Cives
> I'm sorry everyone, but I really resent this. We are trying to follow
>the Constitution without reguard to personal relationships.
> Not that it is any of your business Graecus, but I myself have meet
>Germanicus once in person and talked to him maybe twice on the phone. Is
>that what you call a close friend?
> I would have sent this private but the last time I sent a private
email
>to you, Graecus, and requested you keep it that way you choose to respond
>publicly.
>
> L Equitius
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Criminy!!! |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:38 -0600 |
|
Salvete --
I just wanted to say welcome back Germanicus!!! I have been a bit under
the weather (or under the knife or the pliers, take your pick).
As happens half the time, the posts have confused the heck out of me!!
Personally, I don't really care what Germanicus does, as long as he's
happy with him.
As far as the Religio/Non-Religio thing goes, please educate me!! Can't
you respect Religio without *being* Religio?? I respect the Catholics
but I don't believe what they do and I don't follow what they do. What's
the difference? Now, if Germanicus (and I DO hate to refer to you as if
you are still gone hon, sorry) was looking towards a Priesthood, I
suppose that would be a different thing. Does the Senate confer with the
gods? Does the Senate have anything to do with the Religio? Should it?
Well in any event, welcome back Germanicus!!!!!!!!! You DO know how to
make an entrance :-)!!!!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Criminy!!! |
| From: |
"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:23:38 PST |
|
Germanicus is back?!? I've been deleting posts based on their subject
lines. Someone fill me in!!!
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:23:38 -0600
>From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>Reply-to: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Criminy!!!
>
>From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
>Salvete --
>
>
>I just wanted to say welcome back Germanicus!!! I have been a bit
under
>the weather (or under the knife or the pliers, take your pick).
>
>
>As happens half the time, the posts have confused the heck out of me!!
>
>
>Personally, I don't really care what Germanicus does, as long as he's
>happy with him.
>
>
>As far as the Religio/Non-Religio thing goes, please educate me!!
Can't
>you respect Religio without *being* Religio?? I respect the Catholics
>but I don't believe what they do and I don't follow what they do.
What's
>the difference? Now, if Germanicus (and I DO hate to refer to you as
if
>you are still gone hon, sorry) was looking towards a Priesthood, I
>suppose that would be a different thing. Does the Senate confer with
the
>gods? Does the Senate have anything to do with the Religio? Should
it?
>
>
>Well in any event, welcome back Germanicus!!!!!!!!! You DO know how to
>make an entrance :-)!!!!!
>
>
>Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
>amethystcrystallight@--------
><a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
<a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:29:49 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 15:11:43 EST, you write:
<< Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that senators were
inducted by sitting senators from the set of magistrates, rather than
elected by the comitiae from the Novaroman population at large. >>
You might be right...I thought they were elected.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The constitution was Explanations |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:29:00 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 20:03:20 EST, you write:
> In all fairness, however, I dont think that Graecus ever meant to discourage
> Germanicus from taking a seat in the Senate. He was merely pointing out
> that there was a point in the Constitution barring anyone from that august
> body who does not follow Religio Romana in the Nova Roma public.
This has really been a fascinating exercise in Constitutional law. A
Constitution riddled with flaws (I ought to know-- I wrote the thing!).
I would like to point out a few things that have stood out in my mind. The
main point, having re-read the relevant sections of the Constitution, is that
the "religious requirement" is not quite as all-encompassing as it appears. It
reads, in part:
"All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to
observe the Sacred Days of the Year, and to honor and offer sacrifice to the
Gods and Goddesses that made and make Rome great. Citizens need not be
practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that
intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its
practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators shall be required to pay due honor
to the Gods. " (Section VI.1.)
The key here being "honor and offer sacrifice" and "pay due honor" being the
requirements for Magistrates and Senators. The Constitution does not require
personal belief nor personal practice of the Religio Romana. It refers to the
role of Magistrates and Senators in the public rites of the State Religion. To
offer a pinch of incense on the public brazier of Iuppiter is what's required;
not to offer heartfelt silent prayers at every stroke of lightning.
Given this, I would have no problem making such observances in the role of
Senator. This, combined with my position as a former magistrate is, I think,
Constitutionally sufficient for me to rejoin the ranks of the Senate.
However, given the controversy that has surrounded the possibility of my
return to that august body, I will not press the issue. If called to serve
within its ranks I shall do so, happily and to the best of my ability. If not,
I shall content myself with the lot of an "ordinary" Nova Roman Citizen which
is, in and of itself, quite an extra-ordinary honor to hold.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:28:08 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 14:22:31 EST, you write:
<< Nova Roma is a democracy by its Constitution. I have reasons to believe
that
the people would be happy if Germanicus was accepted as Senator, if he swore
to respect the Religio Romana as the official religion of Nova Roma. Would
you let the people decide? >>
While I agree with everything you have said, I'm sure that both you and
Germanicus would agree that in a democracy, there is due process.
I wish to say that I harbor no ill feelings towards Germanicus for his
resignation of his positions and citizenship and welcome him back with open
arms. But (and I hope not to be causing a rift here) do think that simply
"re-appointing" anyone to a former position that they have resigned goes
against the democratic system.
While Germanicus may have had his personal reasons for leaving, his
resignation did (IMHO) set us back a few paces as we scrambled to find
replacements and come to terms with what exactly his resignation meant to the
Republic as a whole.
I would welcome Germanicus to pursue a candidacy in the upcoming election if
he wishes to once again take part in the Senate. In that forum, then the
people will certainly decide. But I can not in good concious support re-
appointment no matter who the individual is or what they have done in the
past.
Forgive my drakonianism...it is not meant to spite.
-Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Thank you was Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:29:18 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 15:11:35 EST, you write:
<< What would happen to the poor miscreant who objected to Germanicus' return
to the senate? Has a suitable substitute for the Tarpeian rock been found?
>>
Reading this after my last post! : )
Who wants to hold the whip? : P~~~
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:32:31 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 17:16:14 EST, you write:
<< I'm sorry everyone, but I really resent this. We are trying to follow
the Constitution without reguard to personal relationships.
Not that it is any of your business Graecus, but I myself have meet
Germanicus once in person and talked to him maybe twice on the phone. Is
that what you call a close friend?
I would have sent this private but the last time I sent a private email
to you, Graecus, and requested you keep it that way you choose to respond
publicly. >>
Ooooooo! Girl....RAISE THE ROOF! It's getting hot in here!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:31:05 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 15:27:57 EST, you write:
<< You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow it.
The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
itself. >>
Then I withdraw my former post. : )
--Dexippus
<<should read the constitution more...>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Explaination |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:37:02 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 19:54:11 EST, you write:
<< What's wrong with all of you? This is Germanicus you are talking
about. I and many Nova Romans would be happy to see him back in the
Senate. Constitution, I kept reading... Germanicus helped write the
thing! We ought to be more welcoming and more generous to the man who
helped start it all. >>
I don't think anyone is arguing that Germanicus' return is not welcomed. But
there is a case of due process. IMHO, I can't conciously condone the re-
appointment of someone who resigned his/her position (for whatever reason).
Maybe this is a personal limitation of mine...maybe I should be more open.
But whatever is decided in this case will ultimately have repurcussions
throughout the far future of Nova Roma. Let us not decide in haste...but
think this through with clear thought.
I'm not advocating that Germanicus never be appointed to a government position
again...just perhaps we all need some "healing" time.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:43:07 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/3/98 1:12:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, amg@--------
writes:
From: "Antonio M. R. C. Grilo" amg@--------
Salvete omnes!
Salve Germanicus!
>to the contrary, I do not want any other position within the government).
My motive for asking this is to once again have a voice, one among many, in
guiding the Republic that I helped found.
> Our sacred constitution says the following:
"Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not
engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods,
the Religio Romana, or its practitioners, and Magistrates and Senators shall
be required to pay due honor to the Gods."
Please do note that this passage does not legislate that Magistrates must be
practitioners of Religio Romana! The intent here was that Magistrates should
be publicly respectful to the Gods and to Religio Romana... and that they
should take part in religious observations if required. Let's say the
Priesthood of Nova Roma put on a ritual during a Roman event... the last thing
we'd want would be to have a Magistrate speaking out against Religio Romana,
or refusing to stand respectfully while a rite was being held.
It's important to remember that our Magistrates are not Priests... the only
thing required of them is respect and perhaps an occasional attendance as
required by their position. The hope is that "Moderates" from many faiths will
be able to participate fully in the Cursus Honorum.
> In my opinion, in order to have Flavius Germanicus again as senator, there
are two alternatives:
1 - Germanicus must be willing to sacrifice to the Gods of Rome.
2 - The Constitution is changed according to its currently prescribed
precepts. Any suggestions?
I honestly don't think there would be any problem with Germanicus being
respectful to the Gods of Rome... he's still Pagan after all.
> Now, the oath of office:
"(...)
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, (name) swear TO DO HONOR TO THE GODS AND
GODDESSES OF ROME IN MY PUBLIC DEALINGS, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in
my public and private life.
(...)
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and IN THE PRESENCE OF THE GODS AND
GODDESSES OF THE ROMAN PEOPLE AND BY THEIR WILL AND FAVOR, do I accept the
position of (title of magistracy) and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto."
>Well, does it also have to change? At least it should include:
"I shall always accept the Religio Romana as the official religion of Nova
Roma."
Again, as the Oath reads, a Magistrate must be publicly respectful of the Gods
and Religio Romana, and practice the Roman Virtues. Swearing in the presence
of the Gods denotes respect, and hopefully we won't try to legislate faith.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The constitution was Explanations |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:48:50 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-03 20:03:33 EST, you write:
<< As Germanicus, co-founder of our Micronation, has returned and expressed a
desire to rejoin the Senate, cannot the Senate consider ammending the
Constitution to allow him to do that, and, perhaps in the same session,
review the section on elections? >>
Hmmm...I think I would have a slight problem with a Senate that ammends the
constitution at will to allow for a certain circumstance every now and then.
I think if there is to be any rethinking of the constitution, it should be
regarding checks and balances.
<<We have magistrates and pontiffs to oversee administration of Religio
Romana; is it worth it to aleinate Germanicus from the Senate, just to
maintain a religiously pure Senate, when the public religious duties are
already covered by our elected
magistrates?>>
I don't think anyone is trying to alienate Germanicus. But if the
constitution states that a holder of public office must be a practitioner of
the Religio Romana (and it's a constituion that Germanicus helped create),
shouldn't he also be subject to that? If not, then what faith can we hold in
our constitution...if it is so easily amendable to suit an individual or
circumstance?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:08:32 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/3/98 3:33:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, amg@--------
writes:
<<
Salve Lucius!
>You either haven't read the Constitution or you are trying to overthrow it.
>The member ship of the Senate is determined by the Censores and the Senate
>itself.
>Yes, I know. But in case the Censors and the Senate appoint Germanicus as
Senator, that would also violate the Constitution. As such, agreement could
be achieved through having the people decide. My point is that I know almost
all Senators and Censors are close friends of Germanicus.
Actually, if Germanicus would agree to respect the Religio Romana in all
Public rites, it certainly *would* be constitutional for the Senate and
Consuls to reinstate him as a Senator. He'd have to agree, of course!
As far as the Senators and Censors being close friends of Germanicus, that's
simply ridiculous. Even I, who have known him longest, have met him exactly
three times. Decius Iunius has never had the pleasure, and Cincinnatus has met
him only once.
Favoritism simply has not been an issue here. If it WAS, Germanicus would have
been reinstated on the very first day he returned, instead of all this debate
continuing. I've been very impressed that ALL Citizens have been concerned
first and foremost with Nova Roma itself, rather than being concerned over
personal issues.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Consul speaks on Senatorial Appointments |
| From: |
FJGA@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:24:23 EST |
|
Ok, the situation regarding German8icus is defintely getting out of hand so I
decided I'd better mention a few straight facts to everyone so as to prevent
continued anger and arguement:
1.The Constitution is merely a document we use to guide us. The Senate has
made changes in the Constitution several times since the birth of NovaRoma.
2.Nobody in the Senate is oppossing Germanicus' return to a seat in the
Senate. However we are discussing the larger issues, namely what to do when
any Senator leaves NovaRoma and requests to return.
3.Personal issues have never guided this Senate. The present body is without a
doubt the most fair body of individuals in which I have ever dealt.
I hope this assists everyone.
Metellus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The constitution was Explanations |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:34:29 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 11/3/98 8:50:07 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, Dexippus@--------
writes:
<< << As Germanicus, co-founder of our Micronation, has returned and expressed
a
desire to rejoin the Senate, cannot the Senate consider ammending the
Constitution to allow him to do that, and, perhaps in the same session,
review the section on elections? >>
> Hmmm...I think I would have a slight problem with a Senate that ammends the
constitution at will to allow for a certain circumstance every now and then.
I think if there is to be any rethinking of the constitution, it should be
regarding checks and balances.
Again, there would be no reason to amend the Constitution of Nova Roma to
allow for a Magistrate who was not a religious Roman Pagan. The Constitution
simply calls for public respect, and participation when required. When Nova
Roma was created it was fully understood that we'd end up with Magistrates who
were not actively practicing the Religio Romana... the point was to ensure
that Magistrates would not work *against* it, or publically disrespect it.
<<We have magistrates and pontiffs to oversee administration of Religio
Romana; is it worth it to aleinate Germanicus from the Senate, just to
maintain a religiously pure Senate, when the public religious duties are
already covered by our elected
magistrates?>>
>I don't think anyone is trying to alienate Germanicus. But if the
constitution states that a holder of public office must be a practitioner of
the Religio Romana (and it's a constituion that Germanicus helped create),
shouldn't he also be subject to that? If not, then what faith can we hold in
our constitution...if it is so easily amendable to suit an individual or
circumstance?
Certainly no special allowance would be made for Germanicus. If he agreed to
respect the Roman Gods and Religio Romana, and to take part in any religious
rites where his presence was required by the Priesthood, he'd be fully in
compliance with the Constitution as written. This is all we would expect from
any Magistrate.
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
