Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:26:39 +0000

JEEZ, You GOTTA love this guy!

Pythia

> Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
> Vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus, the face of a Roman, the face of the
> people!
> Vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs!
>
> "I'll show my face for the people!" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>
> Name: agg.jpg
> agg.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:01:18 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 18:06:21 EST, you write:

<< This really does have historical precident from Ancient Rome! Money
equals Public Office! Just like in the old days! Now, if I tot up how
much time & money I've spent on NR, do I get an automatic appointment to
the Senate? >>

I nominate Flavia Claudia for Diva Extrema Maxima!

--Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:03:27 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 18:15:39 EST, you write:

<< As I understood NR..we are a Micronation...as a political body it is more
THAN just the religion..according to our Mission...we have real intentions
of forming an Nation.

That seems more than Religious to me. >>

But you can not escape or explain away the religious aspects. It's imbedded
in what Nova Roma stands for and what existed in the Ancient Republic.

Nova Roma was founded as a Religious Organization and then moved to be a
micronation. The Religio is the backbone of the rest of the organization.

--Dexippus
<<has calmed down since this afternoon...Thank you St. John's Wort! Nature's
Prozac!>>


Subject:	Re: The rewards of voting
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:02:25 -0500

LSergAust@-------- wrote:
>
>
> Ah, Yes! You jogged my memory. In running down the list, I forgot that
> important "historic Roman practice" of giving lavish bribes to voters! By
> all means let's adhere to that one. Do we get to band together to set the
> going rate, or do we just bargain individually with each candidate?

No, I think collective bargaining is definitely the way to go. Let's
call in the Teamsters to represent us poor oppressed voters! So far, I
haven't gotten as much as a tacky bumper sticker from this crop of cheap
candidates. No question that they're all qualified and I'd be glad to
have any of them represent Nova Roma -- BUT let's see some trinkets for
us voters!

Bribe early and bribe often!
>
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
> certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

Now THAT'S funny!


Subject:	Re: Cleopatras' City
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:06:05 -0500

Megas-Robinson wrote:
>
> From: Mega--------bin--------amgunn@--------
>
> Ave Omnes!
>
> Anyone else catch the news blurp this morning on the archaeological
> discoveries in the harbor at Alexandria? Know more about it?
>
Yeah! Unbelievable! A French team of underwater archaeologists found
Cleo's summer palace, among other things. They did something very
unusual -- they brought up artifacts, photographed them, and PUT THEM
BACK where they belonged! The idea is to build an underwater museum.
Apparently, the city is in only 15 meters (I think it was) of water and
is easily accessible except the water is dark with sewage and is fairly
stinky. Which is probably why no one dived in there before now!

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: OT: Asatru, Odinism, Theodish... Info
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:09:00 -0500

A. Iulia wrote:
>
> Dancing
> girls are shown wearing "bikini briefs", and a pair of woman's panties
> made of leather have been found, but it is not known if these were
> common items of apparel.

They were, but only by the women of the gens De Sade.

- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:12:42 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 18:21:23 EST, you write:

<< I have seen this Religious discussion go on and on..and I have posed this
question to some Citizens..now I am going to post it to everyone. Is NR more
important than the relgion or is the Religion more important than the State.
Becuase as I see it..the State is more important than the religion... >>

Sulla...with no offense implied...you can not seperate the Religion from the
State in Nova Roma. Doing so will violate the spirit that the organization
was founded upon. Yes...we are a micronation...but we follow a system
somewhat different than the Puritanism of the American model. We are
ROMAN....our model is based upon ANCIENT ROME...there was not seperation in
ANCIENT ROME...and there is no seperation in NOVA ROMA.

All the literature clearly states the importance (if not leadership) of the
Religio Romana within Nova Roma. Why some have chosen to ignore this upon
applying for citizenship is beyond me.

Again...Christian, Moslem, Jew, Hare Krishna...I don't give two fig newtons
and a melba toast...as long as when the duty to offer appropriate prayer,
honor, and offerings to the Gods of Rome are called for by one's position,
that said person can do so with clear concious and heart.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:12:04 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-05 18:06:21 EST, you write:
>
> << This really does have historical precident from Ancient Rome! Money
> equals Public Office! Just like in the old days! Now, if I tot up how
> much time & money I've spent on NR, do I get an automatic appointment to
> the Senate? >>
>
> I nominate Flavia Claudia for Diva Extrema Maxima!
>
> --Dexippus
> Divus Maximus Extremus
>
I'll take it. Especially if it involves jewelry.

-- FC


Subject:	Early Roman Fleets
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:16:02 -0500 (EST)

Peter Connolly gives credance to the story that Rome built it's early
fleet by modelling their galley's on a Carthiginian ship that was
stranded on a reef and captured at the outset of the war. The first
Roman Fleet consisted of 100 quinqueremes and 20 triremes. The
prospective crews were taught how to row on land while the ships were
being built.

The first ships, however, proved to be so slow and clumsy that the
Romans realized that they would not be able to compete with the Punic
seaman and turned to their strong point which was their army. A long
plank was devised with a long iron spike at the end of it. The plank
swivled on a pole in the prow of the ship, The "boarding plank" was
about 1.2 meters wide and 11 meters long while the pole around which it
swiveled was about 7 meters high and about 20 centimeters thick. The
"plank" had a knee high fence running along each side, and was raised by
a pulley attached to the top of the pole. As the galley came close to
an enemy ship the "plank" was dropped on to the opposing ship where the
spike stuck in the deck and locked the two ships together. The
"marines" then mounted the plank, resting the rims of their shields on
the knee-high fencing so that they were completely protected. This
device turned a naval battle into a fight between marines which the
superb Roman infantry were bound to win. The sailors nick-named this
new weapon the "raven" (corvus) because of it's beak.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune
Standing for the Position of Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Constitution, Explanations, Germanicus
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:21:51 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 19:59:01 EST, you write:

<< My own opinion is that Germanicus' explanation for his sudden departure
was fully satisfactory, and that the interests of Nova Roma would best be
served by accepting him back in the Senate without any such probationary
period.
>>

Sorry...but I don't think a "cooling off" period of 3 - 6 months is too much
to ask. Why is this such a rush issue? I'm sure Germanicus is here to stay
now...so what's 3-6 months in the whole scheme of it all?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:31:46 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 20:06:05 EST, you write:

<< Well, (1) that was intended as a value-free description and not as an
insult to anyone, and (2) it was actually inaccurate to the extent that
none of us CAN "imitate" the Religio Romana because we have only tidbits
and fragments of information about it -- we don't have enough information
to enable us to imitate it. >>

Well...it was offensive and I do think you should offer up a public apology
instead of an explanation of your intent.

<<I actually have no idea what religion you "believe in" but the Religio
Romana hasn't been actively practised for many centuries, which certainly
seems to make "long-dead" an accurate adjective. It also shouldn't be
offensive to anyone who isn't just looking to take offense. If the
sight/sound of the word "dead" being used in reference to something
important to you is threatening or unpleasant for you, then I apologize
for having made you uncomfortable.>>

Well...you're wrong again...the Religio Romana has been practiced by certain
obscure sects since it stopped being a state religion in Rome. See Pythia's
page concerning a tribe that still practices Hellenic Paganism for one
example.

And the "long dead" remark was highly offensive not just because I am "looking
to take offense" but because it glearingly insulted my own religious beliefs.
I do not know what religion you follow but I'm sure you would be quite
insulted if (perhaps a christian) I made a remark akin to "The first time the
wood ever nailed the carpenter!"

--Dexippus
<<please, christian citizens, take no offense to my last statement. It was
meant as an example of what can be insulting>>

P.S. Again...apologize for your insult...not for my taking offense!


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:35:54 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 20:34:52 EST, you write:

<< Does it matter what religion we are?
As long as we love Rome and continue to work for the good of Nova Roma. >>

No...it doesn't matter what religion you are, but the offices are tied to the
religion. Clear and simple. You can't be an Arch-Bishop of the Catholic
Church unless you are Catholic. You can't be president of the Southern
Baptist Convention unless you are a Southern Baptist. You can't be President
of Israel unless you are a Jew.

<<I agree that the Constitution is a thing to be respected and not
changed at our very whim and fancy, but this is a serious need!!
How can someone fulfill a promise to a God that they don't believe in?
I know I wouldn't be able to fulfil that sort of a promise!>>

Then I would ask you not to run for office where you may be asked to do so.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:40:10 EST

Hiya Dex,

> Hold on Cassius, I think by Germanicus' own statement that it was on a whim.
> Which I think he then stated he regretted.

Let me be among the first to say ( having NEVER left Nova Roma myself), that
it was FAR from a *whim* that led Germanicus to leave. I was there, trust me
on this one...:) Does he regret the events that transpired? Dunno....that is
a *personal* issue for him. I can tell you this much.....unless you were
there, please refrain from such arbitrary judgements such as the use of the
term *whim*. It is insulting and untrue in this case.

<<When
the project was finally put into motion, Germanicus put forth a truly
Herculean effort to see that Nova Roma would succeed. He's invested literally
hundreds of dollars into Nova Roma directly, spent yet another few hundred
hours designing the website and writing the Constitution, and done everything
possible to ensure Nova Roma's survival

Agreed...but then why relinquish it so easily and in such haste? Again..this
doesn't fortify my faith.>>

I hate to be so very blunt, but where exactly does this come from????
Germanicus has more than explained his position to the people. Leave it at
that. Why is it that a select few insist that such explanations are lacking?
Your faith is an issue for you. Germanicus' dedication to, and undeniable
contributions to, Nova Roma stand by themselves. I am highly suspect of those
demanding *further explanation*. As someone else said.....if what has been
presented has not satisfied you (and even that much was beyond wat was
technically owed) nothing ever will.

Perhaps some among us prefer to *punish* Germanicus for his departure, as
opposed to listening with an open mind to the reasons and truly putting the
good of Nova Roma before their own petty desire for spite?

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:43:13 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 17:42:17 EST, you write:

> << A new foreign cult has been proposed for Nova Roma: that of the
> mysteries of Cornholio. >>
>
> Sounds like we've had that here from the start.
>
> --Dexippus

What IS with you?????? I truly do not understand (or perhaps misinterpret)
your sarcasm disguised as attempted wit. I welcome the opportunity (privately
or publicly) to clarify the apparent hostility masked as sarcasm that you
display. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:44:07 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 21:35:09 EST, you write:

<< Hell's Bells! That's what makes it so hard to have a real discussion in
this group -- so many people just determined to react to how something is
said rather than to WHAT is said. Gods forbid that we should be able to
have any freedom of expression here. >>

Freedom of expression is welcome...but not blatant insults. As we have the
freedom of speech, this doesn't necessarily mean that we can yell "Fire!" in a
crowded movie theatre on a whim.

If your intention was not to insult, then you should be more careful with your
choice of words.

<<Nova Roma must decide if we really want to be crippled
> from the start by restricting our leadership/public servants to a small
> group of people who choose to try to imitate a long-dead religious
> tradition.>>

A less offensive translation:

"Nova Roma may wish to investigate if we really want to restrict
leadership/public servants to a group of people who follow one specific
spiritual path."

There! Is that so hard? Must I be an English teacher too?

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
<<Please remember it!>>

<<Yep...working my last GAY nerve!>>


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:46:31 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 18:06:26 EST, you write:

> (WARNING! THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE READ BY THE
> SATIRE-IMPAIRED. SERIOUS INJURY COULD RESULT. I AM A PROFESSIONAL --
> DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.)
> This really does have historical precident from Ancient Rome! Money
> equals Public Office! Just like in the old days! Now, if I tot up how
> much time & money I've spent on NR, do I get an automatic appointment to
> the Senate? (I thought I was doing it for love, but now I see that I was
> incredibly naive.) I mean, it wouldn't be nearly as much as Germanicus
> and Cassius have spent, but still...I should at least be a couple of
> rungs up on the Cursus Honorum, maybe a junior Senator.

Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point? Sarcasm
for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
through such actions.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:51:58 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 21:35:29 EST, you write:

<< Come on now, Dex -- we are making little effort to be true to the
historic practices of Rome. If we were, none of the women here would dare
be intruding opinions into these discussions, the juveniles would be
slapped down when they presumed to offer advice to their elders, most of
our population would be slaves, and we would be killing our neighbors to
loot their temples and treasuries. And those are just a few of the
historic practices of Rome. Most of these historic practices are
prohibited explicitly by the Constitution of Nova Roma. >>

Exactly my point. These issues have been outlined and dealt with in the
Constitution prior to the formation of Nova Roma. We do realize in this day
and age that women do play a vital role in society and culture and should be
allowed to do so...we do realize that slavery is an unnecessary evil...we do
realize that child abuse is wrong...there is no question here. Hell...do ya
think a Flaming Fag like me would be an Augur in Ancient Rome
(well..ok...probably!) But the underlying point is that the organization WAS
born out of Roman Paganism and IS a Roman Pagan organization. The
Constitution presents this as the backbone of the Republic.

And again...if we are going to abandon our pursuit of historiocity. Then let
there be Collegia of differing faiths...modern and old. Let there be Nova
Roman sponsored Wiccan events! Let there be Jews-for-Jupiter or Christians-
for-Carthage...or Pagans-for-Pope John Paul! You can't open the valve without
letting loose the flood gate!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: OT: Asatru, Odinism, Theodish... Info
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:54:14 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 22:10:15 EST, you write:

<< > Let's get back to thongs Roman.

Gads, the thick fingers I have sometimes, THINGS Roman. >>

I was more excited with the THONGS Roman! : P~~~

--Dexippus
<<fanning himself>>


Subject:	Re: OT: Asatru, Odinism, Theodish... Info
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:55:05 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 22:22:47 EST, you write:

<< I, for one, would welcome a discussion about Roman undergarments. I
understand
there are several mosaics of bikini-clad Roman girls practicing sports. I've
got the tunic and the toga, but what to wear underneath??? >>

I offer to inspect all offical (and non-official) Roman undergarments! Now
taking numbers!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: OT: Asatru, Odinism, Theodish... Info
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:55:56 EST

In a message dated 98-11-05 22:43:00 EST, you write:

<({;{)
>>

Yeah...a little late...office work keeping me busy and away from the important
aspects of my life!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:58:02 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:14:29 EST, you write:

<< I'll take it. Especially if it involves jewelry. >>

Every little piece you can fit to wear, hon!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:05:27 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:40:43 EST, you write:

<>

I will apologize for being insulting (yes...I am MAN enough to apologize).
But if I read Germanicus' post correctly he did say that he made the decision
in haste. This is all I was alluding to.

<<Your faith is an issue for you. >>

I was not talking about my religious faith. But the faith in leadership
without conviction.

<<Perhaps some among us prefer to *punish* Germanicus for his departure, as
opposed to listening with an open mind to the reasons and truly putting the
good of Nova Roma before their own petty desire for spite? >>

I don't think anyone here is looking to "punish" Germanicus. As I have said,
I am glad he is back. But to come back, and request a government position,
and be re-instated so soon seems a bit much right now. Healing
period...probation...whatever you wanna call it...what's the problem with
that?

And no petty desire for spite here, girl! I dropped that ego when I was in
High School.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:08:53 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:43:36 EST, you write:

<< What IS with you?????? I truly do not understand (or perhaps misinterpret)
your sarcasm disguised as attempted wit. I welcome the opportunity
(privately
or publicly) to clarify the apparent hostility masked as sarcasm that you
display. Looking forward to hearing from you. >>

Priscilla..with all do respect....Up until now I have never seen you on this
board. Is this the first time you are reading any of my posts? Sarcasm?
Hostility? Ok...call it what you may...but others on this board know how
often I respond "tongue in cheek" to posts.

Grain of salt...sweetie! Take it with a grain of salt! <<and Tequila if you
have it!>>

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:10:17 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:47:02 EST, you write:

<< Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point?
Sarcasm
for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
through such actions. >>

GRAIN OF SALT!

"Laugh a little...Smile a little...hey, what the hell, cry a little! That's
the story of...that's the glory of LOVE!"

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:12:44 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 01:05:39 EST, you write:

> I will apologize for being insulting (yes...I am MAN enough to apologize).
> But if I read Germanicus' post correctly he did say that he made the
> decision
> in haste. This is all I was alluding to.

Cool...and more than fair, thank you! :)

<<I don't think anyone here is looking to "punish" Germanicus. As I have
said,
I am glad he is back. But to come back, and request a government position,
and be re-instated so soon seems a bit much right now. Healing
period...probation...whatever you wanna call it...what's the problem with
that?>>

I guess it is all a matter of perspective. I could likewise say what is the
difference between an appointment to the SEWnate now or three months from now?
To censure a person witha probation period can be seen as a *punishment* of
sorts.....he is back, he is willing to contribute. I guess I see no need for
a probationary period other than as a *time-out-chair* of sorts. I also am
woman enough to admit that this is my own perception and certainly open to
interpretation by others.

<<And no petty desire for spite here, girl! I dropped that ego when I was in
High School.>>

Glad to hear it......LOL ;P

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:15:35 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 01:12:51 EST, you write:

<< Glad to hear it......LOL ;P

Priscilla Vedia Serena >>

: ) Pax sweatheart! Pax!

--Dexippus
<<going to bed now...these e-mails are giving me a headache....ok, I
know...they're mostly from me! Ha Ha Ha!>>


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:16:07 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 01:09:05 EST, you write:

> Priscilla..with all do respect....Up until now I have never seen you on this
> board.

You may not have seen me on this board, but you have met me in person. :)
All in all just an observation on my part. ;)

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: The rewards of voting
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:11:53 -0600

On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:05:05 -0800 "L.Cornelius Sulla"
Al--------us@-------- writ--------br> >From: "L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@--------
>
>Why should we bribe when most of us..execpt for the Tribs of the Plebs
>are
>running unopposed...there is no reason to Bribe the Masses!
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
>Candidate for Praetor Urbanis

Never mind the masses -- bribe me!!!!!!!!!

(please email for my account information -- I'm saving for
college......for all 3 of us!!!!!)

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:17:44 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 01:11:58 EST, you write:

> "Laugh a little...Smile a little...hey, what the hell, cry a little! That's
> the story of...that's the glory of LOVE!"

Great song....especially for we altos......LOL

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Ceasers Cesarian
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:37:55 -0600

Salvete --

Ummmm.......I remember hearing somewhere that Ceaser wasn't born by
cesarian, so why's it named after him (or is it)??

Yup, I'm thinking of doing it again. (Another c-section -- NOT another
baby!!!!)

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: Early Roman Fleets
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:10:52 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:16:21 EST, you write:

Salve Audens!

The Consul was asking about roman triremes. Not Quints.
Wanna help build a Liburnian?

Q.Fabius


Subject:	Re: religious wars
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:24:26 -0000

Salve Dexippe!

>ALL GODS ARE ONE GOD AND ALL GODDESSES ARE ONE GODDESS. This is not
>monotheism...what is meant by this statement is that underlying all the
>manifestations of God or Goddess is an ultimate source of "power". I call
>this Divinity. So whether Divinity chooses to manifest itself as Jupiter,
>Venus, Diana, Odin, Hecate, Aman-Ra, Yahweh, Ganesha, or whatever...it's
still
>coming from the same source. However...this is not to say that each
archetype
>isn't distinct and individual. They each have their own personal likes,
>dislikes, etc. The power comes from the same source, but the energy
revealed
>by the archetypes is different (and this is what we connect to depending
upon
>our needs and wants).

Have you read Plotinus?

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Dexippus@-------- Dexippus@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:56 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: religious wars

>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-04 19:37:49 EST, you write:
>
><< If Nova Roma had been a strictly Pagan organization with no other
> beliefs allowed, there STILL would be conflict between...say, the Pagans
> and the Wiccans and the Asatru. >>
>
>I can only speak for myself. My personal spiritual practice has its
>foundation in Wicca. In so much as when I worship, I cast a circle, call
>quarters, bless salt and water...the whole shabang. The Deities I relate
to
>as God and Goddess are Roman.
>
>In the Declaration of Roman Paganism, Nova Roma defines a Roman Pagan as
>anyone who worships the Ancient Gods and Goddesses of Rome in either the
>reconstructed practice of the Religio Romana or in a modern form (I take
this
>as being "Wiccan-ish").
>
>Perhaps it is because my Deities are Roman that I have no problem
performing
>strictly Religio rites when need be. But I personally hold to the belief
that
>ALL GODS ARE ONE GOD AND ALL GODDESSES ARE ONE GODDESS. This is not
>monotheism...what is meant by this statement is that underlying all the
>manifestations of God or Goddess is an ultimate source of "power". I call
>this Divinity. So whether Divinity chooses to manifest itself as Jupiter,
>Venus, Diana, Odin, Hecate, Aman-Ra, Yahweh, Ganesha, or whatever...it's
still
>coming from the same source. However...this is not to say that each
archetype
>isn't distinct and individual. They each have their own personal likes,
>dislikes, etc. The power comes from the same source, but the energy
revealed
>by the archetypes is different (and this is what we connect to depending
upon
>our needs and wants).
>
>This personal belief of mine has allowed me to take part in Celtic rituals,
>Greek rituals, Native American rituals, and Santeria rituals without
feeling a
>betrayal against my own Patrons and Matrons. In the end...it's ultimately
>Divinity that is being worshiped and not just the archetype.
>
>Now...if others who follow a different path can do the same thing when it
>comes to their participation in public office of Nova Roma and in honoring
and
>worshiping the Gods of our Religio, then I am fine with that. But if it's
>going to cause stress on them and a failure to honor the Gods and Goddesses
>who Nova Roma has sworn allegiance to, then please forgoe the
position...for
>your own spiritual ease and for that of Nova Roma.
>
>I don't think we are in a religious war...we're just trying to iron this
all
>out.
>
>--Dexippus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:33:56 -0000

Salve!

>If I was a Plebian, I'd vote for this guy. You can't say he's not
>putting everything he's got into the campaign!
Oh, dear! Now you are giving Metellus the same argument that the patricians
are supporting the other candidates!!!!! =))))

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon@-------- m--------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 2:13 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the
office of Tribune of the Plebs

>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>Antonio Grilo wrote:
>>
>> Vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus, the face of a Roman, the face of the
>> people!
>> Vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs!
>>
>> "I'll show my face for the people!" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>
>> Picture Attachments:
>
>If I was a Plebian, I'd vote for this guy. You can't say he's not
>putting everything he's got into the campaign!
>
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:52:02 -0000

Salve Cives!

Quintus Metellus followed the maxim of Julius Caesar. He chose to be a king in Gaul rather than a slave in Rome.

"I a son of the people!" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	Mike Macnair m.macnair@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:22:28 +0000

If NR was a state IRL I would probably agree with Sulla's post - as a
subject of a Kingdom which has a Christian Church "by Law Established", I
would rather live in a state where church and state were separated - which,
I think, implies that if the religions practised in the state think that
political life is an aspect of the religious life, then all religions
equally should be able to perform public ceremonies to sanctify public
acts.

But while NR is a Micronation, it does not dispose of state coercive powers
IRL in relation to any territory. IRL, NR is a voluntary association:
no-one has to join, and no-one has to take office (and no-one needs to be
able to take office to defend themselves from persecution by the coercive
powers of the state). So we can't "deduce" what's more important from
political science of (as I read Sulla's post) a materialist cast. What's
important is what (a) the Founders who wrote the Constitution, and (b) we
the citizens who joined up on this basis, think is important.

So I come back to my own previous posts. The Constitution is written on the
basis that NR is committed to the reconstruction of the Religio, not just
as something that some people do, but as PART OF THE POINT OF THE
ORGANISATION. From this it follows that magistrates must carry out those
public religious observances which reflect the understanding of classical
religion that all things, including res publicae, have a divine aspect to
them. Actually, if we didn't take this line, we would not be "merely" a
reenactor group, but less than a reenactor group. We would also be denying
the neoroman pagans among us the right to associate on the basis of the
Coonstitution as it is. That's not defending religious freedom - it's
opposing religious freedom IRL on the basis that the religious bit of the
Constitution is not to be taken seriously (which could be argued equally of
many small religious groups), ergo office has no/ should have no religious
duties; ergo (any) small religious groups can be controlled by supporters
of more mainstream views.

None of this is a big deal right now & maybe the whole argument triggered
by the Germanicus issue is OTT. The problem I think is not Germanicus'
request to rejoin the Senate; it's that some people (not just Sulla) are
using arguments for the limits of magistrates' religious duties which have
much wider implications than they perhaps perceive ...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

"L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@-------- on 11/05/98 11:14:22 PM

Please respond to <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>

To: novaroma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
cc: (bcc: Mike Macnair/LAW/Lancaster_University/UK)
Subject: [novaroma] Political Discussion

I have seen this Religious discussion go on and on..and I have posed this
question to some Citizens..now I am going to post it to everyone. Is NR
more important than the relgion or is the Religion more important than the
State. Becuase as I see it..the State is more important than the
religion...That is not saying that the religion is not important..or that I
am trivilizing the issue...I am not. BUT, as a political scientist, this
can create a major shift in the emphasis of our "microNation." WE are an
Nation. and the development of Nations forced religious issues in the back
drop...becuase Religion serves as a divesive instead of a Cohesive force
when it comes to the State. Religion has been used as a tool of the State
since Ancient times...not the other way around.

Now, I expect alot of response to this..and let me state my personal
opinion. I believe that the State is more important than the religion. I
believe that the religion will survive, as it has up to this point. But,
the State needs nurturing and support from all elements of society. That
is my PRIMARY concern..is the growth and development of the State. As a
citizen, who supports the Goals of Nova Roma. I am offering my services to
the State to accomplish its goals...Political, Social and Religious. I
have my own beliefs and some of them differ from the Majority, and that is
perfectly fine....that is life in a Republic.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:39:14 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 00:52:32 EST, Dexippus writes:

> And again...if we are going to abandon our pursuit of historiocity. Then
> let
> there be Collegia of differing faiths...modern and old. Let there be Nova
> Roman sponsored Wiccan events! Let there be Jews-for-Jupiter or
Christians-
> for-Carthage...or Pagans-for-Pope John Paul! You can't open the valve
> without
> letting loose the flood gate!
>

GACK!!! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

"Jews for Jupiter"!!!

I'm dying!!!!! hehehehehehehe

Sorry, but that was just too frigging funny!!

Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:08:09 -0500

JusticeCMO@-------- wrote:

> I guess it is all a matter of perspective. I could likewise say what is the
> difference between an appointment to the SEWnate now or three months from now?
> To censure a person witha probation period can be seen as a *punishment* of
> sorts.....he is back, he is willing to contribute. I guess I see no need for
> a probationary period other than as a *time-out-chair* of sorts. I also am
> woman enough to admit that this is my own perception and certainly open to
> interpretation by others.
>
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena

Excuse me, but can anyone tell me who this person is? I don't have a Citizenship
application for her, and she's not in the Great Sacred Database. Or is this
application pending by the Censors? Thanks for any info.

Also, what's a SEWnate? Is this supposed to be insulting or clever or just a typo?
Is this a new form of Latin just when I'm struggling with the old one?

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:09:29 -0500

JusticeCMO@-------- wrote:

> From: JusticeCMO@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-05 17:42:17 EST, you write:
>
> > << A new foreign cult has been proposed for Nova Roma: that of the
> > mysteries of Cornholio. >>
> >
> > Sounds like we've had that here from the start.
> >
> > --Dexippus
>
> What IS with you?????? I truly do not understand (or perhaps misinterpret)
> your sarcasm disguised as attempted wit. I welcome the opportunity (privately
> or publicly) to clarify the apparent hostility masked as sarcasm that you
> display. Looking forward to hearing from you.
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena

Speaking of hostile...

-- FC


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:15:00 -0500

JusticeCMO@-------- wrote:

> From: JusticeCMO@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-05 18:06:26 EST, you write:
>
> > (WARNING! THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE READ BY THE
> > SATIRE-IMPAIRED. SERIOUS INJURY COULD RESULT. I AM A PROFESSIONAL --
> > DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.)
> > This really does have historical precident from Ancient Rome! Money
> > equals Public Office! Just like in the old days! Now, if I tot up how
> > much time & money I've spent on NR, do I get an automatic appointment to
> > the Senate? (I thought I was doing it for love, but now I see that I was
> > incredibly naive.) I mean, it wouldn't be nearly as much as Germanicus
> > and Cassius have spent, but still...I should at least be a couple of
> > rungs up on the Cursus Honorum, maybe a junior Senator.
>
> Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point? Sarcasm
> for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
> through such actions.
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>

Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem to apply.

-- FC


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:27:09 -0000

Salve!

>> And again...if we are going to abandon our pursuit of historiocity. Then
>> let
>> there be Collegia of differing faiths...modern and old. Let there be
Nova
>> Roman sponsored Wiccan events! Let there be Jews-for-Jupiter or
>Christians-
>> for-Carthage...or Pagans-for-Pope John Paul! You can't open the valve
>> without
>> letting loose the flood gate!

Very good speech! =)

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 1:40 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Constitution/Explanations

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-06 00:52:32 EST, Dexippus writes:
>
>> And again...if we are going to abandon our pursuit of historiocity. Then
>> let
>> there be Collegia of differing faiths...modern and old. Let there be
Nova
>> Roman sponsored Wiccan events! Let there be Jews-for-Jupiter or
>Christians-
>> for-Carthage...or Pagans-for-Pope John Paul! You can't open the valve
>> without
>> letting loose the flood gate!
>>
>
>GACK!!! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
>
>"Jews for Jupiter"!!!
>
>I'm dying!!!!! hehehehehehehe
>
>Sorry, but that was just too frigging funny!!
>
>Germanicus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:47:50 -0000

Salvete!

>> Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point?
Sarcasm
>> for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
>> through such actions.
>>
>> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>>
>
>Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
>Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
>And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem >to apply.
Lets calm down a little... I become sad when I see people insulting each
other personally... Imagine that you were candidates for the ellections...!
We would have a civil war!

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon@-------- m--------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 2:31 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations

>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>
>
>JusticeCMO@-------- wrote:
>
>> From: JusticeCMO@--------
>>
>> In a message dated 98-11-05 18:06:26 EST, you write:
>>
>> > (WARNING! THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE READ BY THE
>> > SATIRE-IMPAIRED. SERIOUS INJURY COULD RESULT. I AM A PROFESSIONAL --
>> > DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.)
>> > This really does have historical precident from Ancient Rome! Money
>> > equals Public Office! Just like in the old days! Now, if I tot up how
>> > much time & money I've spent on NR, do I get an automatic appointment
to
>> > the Senate? (I thought I was doing it for love, but now I see that I
was
>> > incredibly naive.) I mean, it wouldn't be nearly as much as Germanicus
>> > and Cassius have spent, but still...I should at least be a couple of
>> > rungs up on the Cursus Honorum, maybe a junior Senator.
>>
>> Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point?
Sarcasm
>> for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
>> through such actions.
>>
>> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>>
>
>Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
>Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
>And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem to apply.
>
>-- FC
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:46:53 -0500

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salve!
>
> >If I was a Plebian, I'd vote for this guy. You can't say he's not
> >putting everything he's got into the campaign!
> Oh, dear! Now you are giving Metellus the same argument that the patricians
> are supporting the other candidates!!!!! =))))

Oops. Uh...that was not meant as an endorsement! This has been a non-paid
not-political announcement.

-- FC


Subject:	Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:01:14 -0500

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salvete!
>
> >> Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point?
> Sarcasm
> >> for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you bring
> >> through such actions.
> >>
> >> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> >>
> >
> >Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
> >Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
> >And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem >to apply.
> Lets calm down a little... I become sad when I see people insulting each
> other personally... Imagine that you were candidates for the ellections...!
> We would have a civil war!
>
> Vale!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> (Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

This guy is a TERRIFIC politician!
By the way, I just love your campaign ads, Graecus. Reminds me of the old
graffiti they used to chalk on walls in the Republic.

-- FC


Subject:	Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:37:30 -0000

Salve!

>Reminds me of the old
>graffiti they used to chalk on walls in the Republic.
Well, it was my intention =).

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon@-------- m--------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 3:09 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)

>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>
>
>Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
>> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>>
>> Salvete!
>>
>> >> Satirical warning not withstanding...what precisely was your point?
>> Sarcasm
>> >> for it's own sake? Hmmmmm......one wonders as to what benefit you
bring
>> >> through such actions.
>> >>
>> >> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>> >>
>> >
>> >Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
>> >Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
>> >And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem >to
apply.
>> Lets calm down a little... I become sad when I see people insulting each
>> other personally... Imagine that you were candidates for the
ellections...!
>> We would have a civil war!
>>
>> Vale!
>>
>> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>> (Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>This guy is a TERRIFIC politician!
>By the way, I just love your campaign ads, Graecus. Reminds me of the old
>graffiti they used to chalk on walls in the Republic.
>
>-- FC
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	New T-shirt
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:41:17 -0500

I think "Jews for Jupiter" would make a great T-shirt.
A menorah with a lightning bolt, maybe?
Sulla? You in?

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	What was that? Huh?
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:27:02 -0500

Salivete

What is it we were talking about? Something about religion,
conscience...seems to have slipped my mind. After reading about this
strophium, I guess I just dont care anymore. I just want to see someone
(other than Dexippus) model this thing!

Thanks for this information, Nocturnia. Now would someone please post a
really boring message about the nuances and subtleties of constitutional
law, so that I can move on with life?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Iulia iuliacaesaria@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: OT: Asatru, Odinism, Theodish... Info

>From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
>
>
>Salvete!
>
>Sorry couldn't resist replying to this one!!
>
>
>The strophium is the Roman brassiere. It is a band of soft linen 6" to
>8" wide (or a folded wider strip), long enough to go around the body
>at least twice. It can be worn in several ways, for example placing
>the center of the band at the back and crossing the ends in front to
>support the breasts, then wrapping the ends around and tucking them in
>again. Evidence is scarce, however, and pins or ties may have been used.
>
>While the tunica often served as an undergarment, there are also
>references to the supparum, subucula, and (for matrons) indusium,
>which may all be slip-like garments, hanging from the waist. Dancing
>girls are shown wearing "bikini briefs", and a pair of woman's panties
>made of leather have been found, but it is not known if these were
>common items of apparel.
>
>
>
>LOL
>
>Noct'a (I thank Marius Fimbria for this!!)
>
>---JoeBloch@-------- wrote:
>>
>> From: JoeBloch@--------
>>
>> In a message dated 98-11-05 22:01:48 EST, you write:
>>
>> > Let's get back to thongs Roman.
>>
>> I, for one, would welcome a discussion about Roman undergarments. I
>understand
>> there are several mosaics of bikini-clad Roman girls practicing
>sports. I've
>> got the tunic and the toga, but what to wear underneath???
>>
>> Well SOMEONE had to lighten the mood!
>>
>> Germanicus
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: New T-shirt
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:21:14 -0800

Umm..a menorah would have too many outlets for lightening..but
Hey..Chanakukah is coming up...Yep..that sounds good to me! Just watch where
you are pointing that thing..that especially goes for Dex! we dont want you
to get an unpleasant shock =)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon@-------- m--------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 7:54 AM
Subject: [novaroma] New T-shirt

>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>I think "Jews for Jupiter" would make a great T-shirt.
>A menorah with a lightning bolt, maybe?
>Sulla? You in?
>
>-- F. Claudia
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:32:30 -0500

>> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
> Excuse me, but can anyone tell me who this person is? I don't have a
> Citizenship application for her, and she's not in the Great Sacred
> Database. Or is this application pending by the Censors? Thanks for
> any info.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia

Might she be that Priscilla Vedia who formerly was Germanicus' fiancee
but last month made his wife?

C.A.R.


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:27:13 -0500

Salvete Marce Muci et alii

I'll follow our Senior Consul's lead in saying "Me Too".

You have summed up the essence of the debate, I think, in very clear
terms -- except for 'IRL'. I'll have to check around for the meaning of
that one...

For what it's worth, I studied Political Science also, I got a minor in it
with a concentration in Comparative Analysis in fact. This background does
not provide me with any answers, or even relevant insight, into resolution
of the situation. The courses of action that I proposed (having the
Collegium Pontificum research the Senate's role in Religio Romana in Roma
Antiqua, and having the NR Senate review the constitution and perhaps remove
any association of religious duty from the Senate's functions) were based on
my own imperfect interpretation of those things to which you refer, I think,
in this post -- the old Mos Maiorum and the literature (which I would
perhaps label 'charter') of Nova Roma.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mi--------acnair m.macnair@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 5:23 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Political Discussion

If NR was a state IRL I would probably agree with Sulla's post - as a
subject of a Kingdom which has a Christian Church "by Law Established",
I
would rather live in a state where church and state were separated -
which,
I think, implies that if the religions practised in the state think that
political life is an aspect of the religious life, then all religions
equally should be able to perform public ceremonies to sanctify public
acts.

But while NR is a Micronation, it does not dispose of state coercive
powers
IRL in relation to any territory. IRL, NR is a voluntary association:
no-one has to join, and no-one has to take office (and no-one needs to
be
able to take office to defend themselves from persecution by the
coercive
powers of the state). So we can't "deduce" what's more important from
political science of (as I read Sulla's post) a materialist cast. What's
important is what (a) the Founders who wrote the Constitution, and (b)
we
the citizens who joined up on this basis, think is important.

So I come back to my own previous posts. The Constitution is written on
the
basis that NR is committed to the reconstruction of the Religio, not
just
as something that some people do, but as PART OF THE POINT OF THE
ORGANISATION. From this it follows that magistrates must carry out those
public religious observances which reflect the understanding of
classical
religion that all things, including res publicae, have a divine aspect
to
them. Actually, if we didn't take this line, we would not be "merely" a
reenactor group, but less than a reenactor group. We would also be
denying
the neoroman pagans among us the right to associate on the basis of the
Coonstitution as it is. That's not defending religious freedom - it's
opposing religious freedom IRL on the basis that the religious bit of
the
Constitution is not to be taken seriously (which could be argued equally
of
many small religious groups), ergo office has no/ should have no
religious
duties; ergo (any) small religious groups can be controlled by
supporters
of more mainstream views.

None of this is a big deal right now & maybe the whole argument
triggered
by the Germanicus issue is OTT. The problem I think is not Germanicus'
request to rejoin the Senate; it's that some people (not just Sulla) are
using arguments for the limits of magistrates' religious duties which
have
much wider implications than they perhaps perceive ...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

"L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@-------- on 11/05/98 11:14:22 PM

Please respond to <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>

To: novaroma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
cc: (bcc: Mike Macnair/LAW/Lancaster_University/UK)
Subject: [novaroma] Political Discussion

I have seen this Religious discussion go on and on..and I have posed
this
question to some Citizens..now I am going to post it to everyone. Is NR
more important than the relgion or is the Religion more important than
the
State. Becuase as I see it..the State is more important than the
religion...That is not saying that the religion is not important..or
that I
am trivilizing the issue...I am not. BUT, as a political scientist,
this
can create a major shift in the emphasis of our "microNation." WE are
an
Nation. and the development of Nations forced religious issues in the
back
drop...becuase Religion serves as a divesive instead of a Cohesive force
when it comes to the State. Religion has been used as a tool of the
State
since Ancient times...not the other way around.

Now, I expect alot of response to this..and let me state my personal
opinion. I believe that the State is more important than the religion.
I
believe that the religion will survive, as it has up to this point.
But,
the State needs nurturing and support from all elements of society.
That
is my PRIMARY concern..is the growth and development of the State. As a
citizen, who supports the Goals of Nova Roma. I am offering my services
to
the State to accomplish its goals...Political, Social and Religious. I
have my own beliefs and some of them differ from the Majority, and that
is
perfectly fine....that is life in a Republic.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:27:54 -0500

Salvete Luci Sergi et alii

I am trying to extricate myself from the debate, but still losing the fight.
Oh well.

I think that you must have missed quite a few posts on this debate, because
it is not about compulsory practice of any religion for the citizenry at
large. Rather, it is about the extent of public participation in religion
required of

A) Magistrates (Consul, Praetor etc.)
B) Senators

It wont help any resolution of the topic to admix to the above notions about
religion being forced like this -

>From: LSergAust@--------
>

>way in Nova Roma. I just don't think it desireable that we have a
>draconian law to bind everyone to a _particular form of religious
>practice_ as a requirement for full participation. That is where my
>dissention mainly lies.

If that is where your dissension lies, abandon that dissension! No such law
exists or has been proposed publicly.

>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: LSergAust@-------- LSergAust@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:33 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Political Discussion


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:56:38 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 11:35:19 EST, you write:

> >> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> >
> > Excuse me, but can anyone tell me who this person is? I don't have a
> > Citizenship application for her, and she's not in the Great Sacred
> > Database. Or is this application pending by the Censors? Thanks for
> > any info.
> >
> >-- Flavia Claudia
>
>
> Might she be that Priscilla Vedia who formerly was Germanicus' fiancee
> but last month made his wife?
>

That's exactly the case. : ) I've already squared it away with Flavia
regarding the database. But hey, Censors! Could she be put back on the gentes
page??

Germanicus


Subject:	Quints and Corvus
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:03:06 -0500 (EST)

Yeah I know, but your earlier comment about
The Raven" caught my attention. I went to P. Connolly and he had a nice
short explanation so I thought I would throw it in.

A Liburnian is another matter! One of my favorite historical vessels.
Do we have a reference (s) for the detaled study of such? Do we have a
model company from which we can get plans or better still a model kit?

When I was going to College at San Diego State they had a large parking
lot on a lower level of the campus. The stairs leading up to the campus
buildings was called "Heart Attack Hill." Anyway, we used to have fleet
re-enactments on the parking lot with a Classical Professor in charge of
the action. If you came the first time you were assigned as "1st
Officer" to one of the Captains of a single vessel who had been there
before. Gradually you worked your way up to the Captain of your own
vessel, a division command (5 vessels) and finally a squadron command
(12 to 15 vessles). It was all very facinating and of course the
Professor had gleaned the organization and tactics from a wide variety
of resources and had combined that with some logical ideas that rose
from the battles themselves. It was a really creative idea. I finally
made Captain of my own vessel, but then graduated from School and was
talked into being a Sea Explorer Post Advisor (BSA-Senior Scouting) and
there went my weekends for about three years. Then I moved suddenly out
to the East Coast in 1980.

It would be fun to build some models and work out some strategies. I
don't even remember the Professor's name, and he is probably retired by
now anyway, but I am sure that those orgnization tables and ship / fleet
tactics are still available. If you are up for it count me in!!!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune
(Prospective Liburnian Commander!!)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Yes, this should help was Thank you was Explanations
From:	"Merullo" Merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:59:28 -0500

Salvete

How does it help to resolve this to resort to personal attacks?

If you want to call someone "petty", send them a message directly, or,
better yet if possible, go to his house and say it to his face.

Oh, and if you dont want people who have no business giving you opinions,
stop going public with trash.
>
>I hate to be so very blunt, but where exactly does this come from????
>Germanicus has more than explained his position to the people. Leave it at
>that. Why is it that a select few insist that such explanations are
lacking?
>Your faith is an issue for you. Germanicus' dedication to, and undeniable
>contributions to, Nova Roma stand by themselves. I am highly suspect of
those
>demanding *further explanation*. As someone else said.....if what has been
>presented has not satisfied you (and even that much was beyond wat was
>technically owed) nothing ever will.
>
>Perhaps some among us prefer to *punish* Germanicus for his departure, as
>opposed to listening with an open mind to the reasons and truly putting the
>good of Nova Roma before their own petty desire for spite?
>
>Priscilla Vedia Serena

Serena? Hmmm...maybe my cognomen should be "Tacitus"

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Office of Quaestor
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:57:46 -0500 (EST)

To all Romans in the institution of Nova Roma; I beg your indulgence
for a few moments of your valuable time.

I am standing for the position of Quaestor, unopposed (to the best of my
knowledge) but never-the-less I feel that it is only fair to you, the
Citizens of Nova Roma, who it is that is standing before you, asking for
your support.

I have a military background of some forty years in the United States
Submarine Force (20 years day for day), 20 Years in the private business
of building submarines (20 years).
During those 40 years, I have risen through the naval ranks from Seaman
Recruit to Chief Warrant Officer, and qualified as Nuclear Weapons
Handling Officer, Division Officer, Officer of the Deck Underway (500
foot ship) and Comand Duty Officer. I left the Navy and completed my
Bachelors Degree in History, and my Masters Degree in Reading Education.
I have two teaching certificates; one for teaching history in grades
9-12, and the second for teaching reading in grades 4-12. I have served
in the Boy Scouts of America for about 38 years and am still serving as
an Asst. Council Commissioner for Communication in the Connecticut
Rivers Council of New England. I have been honored by a Doctorate in
Boy Scout Commissioner Science and a Silver Beaver Award. I have for 16
years been the Chairman of the Zoning Board of Appeals in the town in
which I reside. I have been a first-person re-enactor for French and
Indian War, Revolutionary War, and Civil War as an Engineer and belong
to two Roman Legions (XXth Valera Victrix and IXth Hispana) as a Milles
Imunnes (Gromaciti, Agrimmensores, Gubernator and Architechturas)

I stand before you as a candidate for the position of Quaestor for the
position vacated by Sulla in his quest for further honors within Nova
Roma. I have Sulla's blessing to stnd for this position. I am proud to
say that I enjoy the support of Venator and the appreciation of our Most
Honored Senior Consul as well as other well known members of Nova Roma.

My purpose of standing for a position of this type is that I, as a
citizen of Nova Roma, seek my share of this micronation's work to do. I
have contributed in her Chat Room, and on her bulletin board and
generously on her E-Mail net, as well as contributing to her newsletter
and applying for status as an Equestrian and submitting a proposal for a
special club of military archetechture and cartography, but I do not
feel that is sufficient. Therefore I seek an office in which I can
literally complete a portion of the internal work required to keep this
micro-nation solvent, and moving along the lines to fulfillment as
evidenced by the efforts of those most excellent and far-seeing men of
Rome , Germanicus and Consul Cassius.

I have tried to stay away from the religious and political discussions
of the past few days as I am neither an expert on religion or politics.
I know that my personal beliefs in religion are satisfying to me, but in
no way will hinder me in the position as a Quaestor or in any of the
duties required of me under the present Constitution. My only position
in the political world is to do my work to the best of my ability,
listen with ten times the attention that one gives to careful
communication, and for the most part let my accomplishments and others
signal to the citizens of Nova Roma my abilities and possible future
endeavors.

In closing it is my intention to carefully complete the work required of
this post, in a quiet and efficient manner, to the best of my ability.
I seek no higher office than to satisfy the needs of my superiors
appointed over me, to fully back the justly elected and appointed of
Nova Roma in their efforts, and use what ideas that may come to me for
the betterment of the Nova Roma State and her Executive Officers.

My fellow citizens the above tells you some small part of the skills,
abilities and experience that I bring to this post for which I stand.
It is then up to you as the citizens and voters of this most august
state to decide, if I am worthy of this office. To that end I most
humbly and respectfully reqest of you the support needed for election to
this position and the blessings of the Gods of Rome on my efforts.

I thank you for your most kind attention.

Marcus Minucius Audens;
Nova Roma Military Tribune
for Engineering and Cartography

Standing for the Position of Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Apology was Yes, this should help was Thank you was Explanations
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:04:10 -0500

Amici et cives

I apologize for my previous post with the sarcastic subject line. I meant
to delete it, it was obviously unproductive.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

-----Original Message-----
From: Merullo Merullo@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:50 PM
Subject: Yes, this should help was Thank you was Explanations

>Salvete
>
>How does it help to resolve this to resort to personal attacks?
>
>If you want to call someone "petty", send them a message directly, or,
>better yet if possible, go to his house and say it to his face.
>
>Oh, and if you dont want people who have no business giving you opinions,
>stop going public with trash.
>>
>>I hate to be so very blunt, but where exactly does this come from????
>>Germanicus has more than explained his position to the people. Leave it
at
>>that. Why is it that a select few insist that such explanations are
>lacking?
>>Your faith is an issue for you. Germanicus' dedication to, and undeniable
>>contributions to, Nova Roma stand by themselves. I am highly suspect of
>those
>>demanding *further explanation*. As someone else said.....if what has
been
>>presented has not satisfied you (and even that much was beyond wat was
>>technically owed) nothing ever will.
>>
>>Perhaps some among us prefer to *punish* Germanicus for his departure, as
>>opposed to listening with an open mind to the reasons and truly putting
the
>>good of Nova Roma before their own petty desire for spite?
>>
>>Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
>Serena? Hmmm...maybe my cognomen should be "Tacitus"
>
>Valete
>
>Gaius Marius Merullus
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>>
>
>


Subject:	Re: Office of Quaestor
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:53:12 -0500

James Mathews wrote:

> To all Romans in the institution of Nova Roma; I beg your indulgence
> for a few moments of your valuable time.

Audens, congratulations. EXCELLENT presentation for a candidate. Thank you for
informing us of your position and your goals for yourself and NR. I'm sure we can
count on yourhard work on the micronations behalf.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Punishment for Germanicus?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:57:03 -0500

> >Perhaps some among us prefer to *punish* Germanicus for his departure, as
> >opposed to listening with an open mind to the reasons and truly putting the
> >good of Nova Roma before their own petty desire for spite?

No, I definitely feel that Germanicus has quite enough punishment.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:01:16 -0500

RMerullo wrote:

> From: "RMerullo" merullo@--------
>
> Salivete
>
> What is it we were talking about? Something about religion,
> conscience...seems to have slipped my mind. After reading about this
> strophium, I guess I just dont care anymore. I just want to see someone
> (other than Dexippus) model this thing!
>

A very good argument for establishing a cult of Venus, I guess. Or a "Miss
Nova Roma" candidate for the Miss Universe contest.Merullus, you nasty man!
;)

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	A hundred thirty-five messages!
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:11:51 PST

Is there a way to subscribe to this list as a digest? I just don't have
the time or the energy to read through a few hundred "me too" posts!
*grumbles* *grumps*

--M. Gladius Saevus


Subject:	The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:18:00 -0600

Salvete --

This is *way* off topic, but that has over stopped me before, and it sure
ain't gonna now!!! :-) May not be the worst thing, considering.

I wanted to announce that my son will be born by planned cesarian
section. First let me say that I really don't want to go this route, but
considering my circumstances, I really have no choice.

No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery scheduled
for February 15th (a Monday). This is a date that has been popping up in
dreams and meditation anyway, so I'm going to see if I can run with it!!

Just thought I would add a little something that wasn't political and
wasn't religious (very) and wasn't too nasty or sarcastic, although I am
ready to defend my decision to have a second PLANNED cesarian (there
really ARE reasons and I *will* explain them if needed -- maybe someone
could help us out). Just feeling a bit defensive these days......go
figger????

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:39:10 -0500

Amethyst C Light wrote:

> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
> Salvete --
>
> I wanted to announce that my son will be born by planned cesarian
> section. First let me say that I really don't want to go this route, but
> considering my circumstances, I really have no choice.

That's the way I'd choose! They give you anethesia, you wake up a Mom! Skip
all those nasty parts!(Can you tell I've never done this???)

> No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery scheduled
> for February 15th (a Monday). This is a date that has been popping up in
> dreams and meditation anyway, so I'm going to see if I can run with it!!

You know that all our thoughts will be with you, girlfriend! Let us know what
happens.This is going to be our FIRST Nova Roma baby, isn't it? I'm so
excited!! We're going to have to get together a ritual to Juno Lucenta for
you, as a sidelight to our Concordia in January. (In Maine. In January.)

> Just thought I would add a little something that wasn't political and
> wasn't religious (very) and wasn't too nasty or sarcastic,

We can always count on you to be nice.

-- FC


Subject:	Kids R Nova Roma
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:47:01 -0500

I'm not sure whether this is a matter for the Censors or the Consuls or
who, but...

With the pending birth of a mini-Citizen, shouldn't we set up a Register
of Births or something? What was the ancient practice of registering
newborn babies? I seem to remember reading something about this.

I kind of like the idea of having some recognition of the children of
Nova Roma. Maybe some of you parents can come up with something? I'd
also like to see an establishment of the Camilli/Camillae, which
consisted of children who assisted the priesthood at the rites -- kind
of like altar boys and girls. I wish I had time to research this, but
between the Eagle, promoting a new book, and writing another one, I just
can't. But I think it would be a good thing for the foundation of Nova
Roma -- something for our kids (the collective 'our'!) to help make the
Virtues and the Religio real to them.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	List issues
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:43:19 -0500 (EST)

You can go to <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and click on "User Center" to switch
your subscription to digest. I'm tempted to do so myself, and I'm one of
the moderators!

Up to now, Nova Roma's list has needed little in the way of moderation. But
recent events have become out of hand. As list-Quaestor, may I offer a
couple of ideas?

1) Personal attacks never change anyone's mind. Even under extreme
provocation, you will win more friends and believers in the long run by
taking the high road, offering gentle criticism or factual correction where
needed. If others are weak or stupid, this will show in their posts; the
rest of the list doesn't need it pointed out to them.

2) On mailing lists, we can't see when someone is joking or being
sarcastic, and that often leads to misunderstandings. I'm a much funnier
person in real life than I am on a mailing list! Also, because we have a
number of members whose first language is not English, we need to be
really, really clear in our communication.

3) If someone's post makes you angry, go ahead and really work your
feelings out in your reply - but don't send it. Look at it again 24 hours
later. Chance are you'll realize that your angry words would do more harm
than good. If you sent the nasty reply anyway, you'll need to go back 24
hours later and apologize. If you sent it to the whole list, the list
deserves an apology.

4) When quoting someone else's message, it is a courtesy to remove all but
the most relevant sentence or two - just enough so that list members know
what you're responding to. Also, put your response at the top so we don't
have to scroll through something that's old news just to see what you said
about it.

5) This list has gotten really high traffic lately, and I'm sure I'm not
the only one who's starting to groan when she sees a mailbox full of Nova
Roma messages. If your message is primarily intended for one or two people,
send it to them instead of to the list. If you've expressed a viewpoint
once, there's no need to repeat it.

6) Consider carefully whether what you're about to say is productive for
Nova Roma. The Virtues page
(<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html</a>) describes the ideals of a
Roman; I encourage you to pay special attention to Clementia and Concordia.

I have enjoyed being part of an organization where we have been able to
discuss serious matters, disagree amicably and even have a little fun. This
has been a refreshing change for me from various Celtic Pagan
organizations, and I have grown to respect Roman culture and religion more
as a result. I would hate to see us lose this spirit or start to take our
own egos too seriously.

May we be blessed with continued Comitas (friendliness)!

Patricia Cassia


Subject:	Re: A hundred thirty-five messages!
From:	"Gauis Triumphius" poeticfiend@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:20:14 PST

>Subject: [novaroma] A hundred thirty-five messages!
>
>From: "Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
>
>
>Is there a way to subscribe to this list as a digest? I just don't
have
>the time or the energy to read through a few hundred "me too" posts!
>*grumbles* *grumps*
>
>--M. Gladius Saevus

Me too! (er um) I mean I agree with you that the list can be painfully
long some days.

Gaius Triumphius


Subject:	apology to Moms!
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:34:01 -0500

I owe Amethyst a BIG Apology!

Not having had any kids, I had no idea what went on during a c-section,
and my flippant attitude sure was inappropriate to this subject.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's no excuse.

My apologies also to any women who have had to make this choice, or have
had to have a c-section whether they wanted it or not. Mea culpa, big
time. And thank you, Drusus, for sending me e-mail about this.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: apology to Moms!
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:57:26 -0600

On Fr--------6 Nov 1998 15:34:01 -0500 m--------oon@-------- wr--------:
>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>I owe Amethyst a BIG Apology!
>

LOL!!! Myself....I found it sorta cute. I was awake through Terrys
birth and the pain afterwards was a bit annoying (I have a high tolerence
for pain), but.... If you don't have kids, I can understand the
assumption (I had it myself before Terry). :-) So, apology accepted,
though I don't think you really owe me one.

>Not having had any kids, I had no idea what went on during a
>c-section,
>and my flippant attitude sure was inappropriate to this subject.
>Ignorance may be bliss, but it's no excuse.
>

Maybe not. I guess I just don't insult that easially. Trust me --
ignorance IS bliss..LOL

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: List issues
From:	Masterofhistory masterofhistory@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:23:40 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Nova Romans,

I want to thank you Patricia Cassia for posting your list issues. Out
here in the sticks, I enjoy reading the mail I receive no matter what
the subject is about, however 125+ messages took a long time to sort,
read and digest (I think I need some Rolaids now).

I hope everyone reads and finds agreement with the Quaestor's
guidelines, they should help keep our exchanges informed, civil and
hopefully beneficial. This mail list, if used effectively, can
inform, create dialogue, educate and elucidate the citizens of Nova
Roma on nearly limitless topics. I hope we, as Nova Romans, are able
to invoke the spirit of Concordia and direct this list towards a
higher standard. I think that we are capable of doing so.

Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Qf Callidus, Praedans
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Candidate for Tribune of the People


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:27:59 -0800 (PST)

---Amethyst C Light amethystcrystallight@-------- wrote:

> I wanted to announce that my son will be born by planned cesarian
> section. First let me say that I really don't want to go this
route, but
> considering my circumstances, I really have no choice.
>
>
> No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery
scheduled
> for February 15th (a Monday). This is a date that has been popping
up in
> dreams and meditation anyway, so I'm going to see if I can run with
it!!
>

Amethystia,
I'm sure you already know this, but I just wanted to say we'll
all be thinking of you, and praying for you (in our various different
ways!). Best of luck for February 15th!
Di cum te sint (may the gods be with you)!
Vale,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************


Subject:	Call for all Romans!!
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:32:30 EST

Guys and Gals read below.
Good chance to gain some publicity for NR by helping out!
Q. Fabius

Hello,
I am producing a 4-part television documentary on the Roman Empire in the
First Century. To help visualize some events and social institutions, I
would like to contact any groups that re-enact in costume such First
Century events as:

- Roman sea-faring crafts (large or small boats)
- Roman land vehicles (such as chariots or simple carts and litters)
- Roman Army marches;
- Gladiatorial Contests;
- Roman crafts production;
- Roman cooking;
- Roman dress (togas, women's wear, etc.)
- Roman battles;
- Roman Tent construction;
- Anything else of interest.

Suggestions, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, are all greatly appreciated.

Contact: mkoval@--------

Thanks.


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:37:40 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 09:16:07 EST, you write:

> Excuse me, but can anyone tell me who this person is?>>

::Scratching head:: Can *anyone * tell you? LOL I certainly can. ;) I am
a citizen and have been as of March 1998. My Roman name is Priscilla Vedia
Serena (ayup, Vedia as in Flavius Vedius Germanicus.......we were married
three weeks ago. :) )

<>

Hmmmm, now this worries me. I hope that my citizenship wasn't discarded when
my husband left? YIPE! *I* never left, so if there is information that needs
to be re-supplied I'll be happy to do so, just contact me privately and I will
send it along.
>
> Also, what's a SEWnate?>>

It is a version of *Senate* that one's fingers produce when typing in the wee
hours of the morning.


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:44:09 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 09:22:40 EST, you write:

> Lady, what exactly is your PROBLEM?
> Just sit back and try to remember to take your medication, all right?
> And you might rethink that "serena" cognomen. Doesn't quite seem to apply.

LOL......*sigh*. Interesting. Thank you for your concern regarding my
cognomen, it is entirely uneccesary. :) I suggest we take comments such as
the above private. Othere than that, have a fab weekend hon.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:49:00 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 09:43:54 EST, you write:

> Lets calm down a little... I become sad when I see people insulting each
> other personally...

I agree. My original comment regarding the *apparent* (emphasis mine) sarcasm
during what is already, in some quarters a somewhat tense discussion, was
intended as a serious inquiry. I genuinely did not set out to flame, and if
that was how it was taken, I obviously chose poor wording and for that I
apologize.

As for personal insults regarding typos and medication......*sigh*.....I do
not see the need. In point of fact, while my wording may have been poor I do
make a conscious attempt not to stoop to such tactics. In general, I have
found, that once a person needs to *go there* they have already lost the
debate.

But enough of that. Apology stands for what was a poorly phrased original
post. I look forward to an end to any budding flame-fests.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:51:26 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 11:35:19 EST, you write:

> Might she be that Priscilla Vedia who formerly was Germanicus' fiancee
> but last month made his wife?

:) Yep.....none other. Rumors to the contrary notwithstanding, I have been
here quietly reading along during the entire 9 months of my citizenship. :)

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Yes, this should help was Thank you was Explanations
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:59:50 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 12:51:05 EST, you write:

> How does it help to resolve this to resort to personal attacks?>>

It doesn't. See my previous post.

<<If you want to call someone "petty", send them a message directly, or,
> better yet if possible, go to his house and say it to his face.>>

Again, see a previous post regarding personal attacks in general.

<<Oh, and if you dont want people who have no business giving you opinions,
> stop going public with trash.>>

Oh, now THIS is priceless. I will have to go back and deliberate on how
exactly stating my personal opinion of a situation is trash. Especially in
light of the fact that the person I was addressing has stated at various times
(regarding this issue) comments such as *some* people perhaps taking NR as no
more than a D&D game. That certainly could have been taken as a personal
insult, considering the context, yet it was taken (rightly so) as one person's
interpretation of a situation. Again, I am fascinated that one person's
*post* is in your opinion *trash*.

Even more disconcerting is that in the midst of condemning personal attacks
you make one....::scratching head::. Leading by example? Naahhhh......


Subject:	Re: Punishment for Germanicus?
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:08:05 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 14:04:45 EST, you write:

> No, I definitely feel that Germanicus has quite enough punishment.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

A moment of your time......

As it has become obvious that Flavia Caludia cannot contain her need to take
pot shots at me personally, I will no longer reply publicly to her posts. She
has clearly demonstrated that she cannot take herself out of the sandbox long
enough to stop throwing mud.

I work with children all day and see no need to act like one in my personal
life. Flavia Claudia is free to continue her temper tantrum in public for as
long as she likes, but will find no audience in me.

I will continue to read the list daily (as I have for months now), as well as
to reply as I see the need, but until and unless FC is able to comport herself
with more dignitas towards me her posts will go unanswered in public.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:10:40 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 14:19:59 EST, you write:

> I wanted to announce that my son will be born by planned cesarian
> section. First let me say that I really don't want to go this route, but
> considering my circumstances, I really have no choice.
>

Congratulations and best of luck!! No need to explain or defend.......may the
Gods and Goddesses smile on you and your family.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:02:04 -0600

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:10:40 EST JusticeCMO@-------- writes:

>Congratulations and best of luck!! No need to explain or
>defend.......may the
>Gods and Goddesses smile on you and your family.
>
>Priscilla Vedia Serena
>

Thanks!!! I'm sorry if I sounded so defensive, but the Parents on
another email list have been all but begging me NOT to have a second
section. Course, none of them has come forward to Terry-sit while I'm in
the hospital, or pay for a week of continuous child care, but...... oh
well

BTW....I had no idea you just got married...I had no idea who you
were....anyway, congratulations yourself...basically what you said right
back at ya!!

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: Punishment for Germanicus?
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:08:39 -0800 (PST)

---JusticeCMO@-------- wrote:
>
> From: JusticeCMO@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 14:04:45 EST, you write:
>
> > No, I definitely feel that Germanicus has quite enough punishment.
> >
> > -- Flavia Claudia
>
> A moment of your time......
>
> As it has become obvious that Flavia Caludia cannot contain her need
to take
> pot shots at me personally, I will no longer reply publicly to her
posts. She
> has clearly demonstrated that she cannot take herself out of the
sandbox long
> enough to stop throwing mud.
>
> I work with children all day and see no need to act like one in my
personal
> life. Flavia Claudia is free to continue her temper tantrum in
public for as
> long as she likes, but will find no audience in me.
>
> I will continue to read the list daily (as I have for months now),
as well as
> to reply as I see the need, but until and unless FC is able to
comport herself
> with more dignitas towards me her posts will go unanswered in public.
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>

I really very much hate to get involved in this - my usual policy
when things get nasty on the mailing-list is just to keep very, very
quiet.
However, it strikes me that the above post _is_ a personal
attack, just disguised as magnanimous sentiments.
If a post is offensive, it's usually best just to delete it and
forget about it (you have every right to delete this one if you don't
like it!).
Vale,
Aprica.

==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:58:10 -0800 (PST)

The offices are tied to religion? Why?
Some, obviously have to be, eg priests but do magistrates really have
to follow the Religio Romana?

You said:
Then I would ask you not to run for office where you may be asked to
do so.

I only said I would not be able to fulfil a promise to
a God which I didn't believe in.
I am a practitioner of the Religio Romana, but I do not believe that
you could fulfil a promise to a God which you didn't believe in!
Could you honestly say, if you weren't a practitioner of the Religio
Romana, you wouldn't want to stand for office?
Do you think that is right?
Look at it from the perspective of people of other beliefs.

A. I. C Nocturnia

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-05 20:34:52 EST, you write:
>
> << Does it matter what religion we are?
> As long as we love Rome and continue to work for the good of Nova
Roma. >>
>
> No...it doesn't matter what religion you are, but the offices are
tied to the
> religion. Clear and simple. You can't be an Arch-Bishop of the
Catholic
> Church unless you are Catholic. You can't be president of the
Southern
> Baptist Convention unless you are a Southern Baptist. You can't be
President
> of Israel unless you are a Jew.
>
> < changed at our very whim and fancy, but this is a serious need!!
> How can someone fulfill a promise to a God that they don't believe in?
> I know I wouldn't be able to fulfil that sort of a promise!>>
>
> Then I would ask you not to run for office where you may be asked to
do so.
>
> --Dexippus
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:11:32 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 01:16:12 EST, you write:

<< You may not have seen me on this board, but you have met me in person. :)
>>

Yes...I realized after I signed off last night who you are. : )

By the way...congratulations to you and Joe on your nuptials. I hope the day
was all you expected it to be.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:30:57 -0800

Unto Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina,

Does Stephanus Ullerius Venator,

Present Greetings and Salutations!

My Friend,

I have just read the posts of your decision to bring the young one into
the world. I should like to present my congratulations over the
strength you are showing, as well as the good grace and humor.

I can well sympathize with any doubt you may have. Both of my sisters
were single mothers for some time, so I know a little of what you are
experiencing.

You are stronger than you realize and have the basis of an adoptive
family in New Rome, if for no other reason than the moral support you
shall receive, which so many in your circumstances never get.

I shall drink Symbel to Thee and Thy Children, Born and Unborn, when
next I give Blot to the Holy Ones. May All the Holy Ones, but
especially the Mother Goddesses of us all watch over and keep you
healthy, safe and content. May you prosper.

Benedictus and Waes Hael

Venator aka Ullrsson


Subject:	Re: .[novaroma] Re: religious wars
From:
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:42:00 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 04:20:35 EST, you write:

<< Have you read Plotinus? >>

No..can you give me a rundown?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of T...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:43:28 EST

Ok...I know someone had a list of all the candidates...but I must admit, in
the hooplah of all these discussions, I have lost it.

Can someone resend it my way?

Thanks,

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Constitution/Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:46:19 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 08:39:53 EST, you write:

<< I'm dying!!!!! hehehehehehehe

Sorry, but that was just too frigging funny!! >>

: ) Glad you got a chuckle! Good to hear you laugh again!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:47:50 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 09:16:04 EST, you write:

<< Also, what's a SEWnate? >>

I thought it meant throwing the Senate into the Sewer or something to that
affect.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:53:57 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 09:43:47 EST, you write:

<< We would have a civil war! >>

I'm a Yankee! Blue is in this year! Grey went out when Donna Karen declared
"No More Black!"

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:56:51 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 11:30:47 EST, you write:

<>

You're not gonna find a better model than me! Cindy Crawford was pickin'
garbage before I taught her how to walk and wear that mole!

--Dexippus
"I have one thing to say...YOU...BETTER...WORK!"


Subject:	Re: New T-shirt
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:57:45 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 11:32:14 EST, you write:

<< ust watch where
you are pointing that thing..that especially goes for Dex! we dont want you
to get an unpleasant shock =) >>

Oh don't worry about me...I take very good care of my electrical appliances.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:00:03 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 12:10:54 EST, you write:

<< But hey, Censors! Could she be put back on the gentes page?? >>

Uh...no...I have a problem with that. Who is she, where did she come from?
How do I know she's truly your wife?

LOL...only kidding all! It's now just comical isn't it?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Apology was Yes, this should help was Thank you was Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:03:20 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 13:09:26 EST, you write:

<>

Hey...it gave me a chuckle...I call that productive.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Office of Quaestor
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:02:49 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 12:57:51 EST, you write:

<< To all Romans in the institution of Nova Roma; I beg your indulgence
for a few moments of your valuable time. >>

----cut for space

Well said and well spoken.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: A hundred thirty-five messages!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:06:01 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 14:12:07 EST, you write:

<< Is there a way to subscribe to this list as a digest? I just don't have
the time or the energy to read through a few hundred "me too" posts!
*grumbles* *grumps* >>

Yeah...and I'm sorry for that. I've been posting much on the board. But
hey...you all know me....get me going and it takes something bigger than life
to stop me.

--Dexippus
<<invoking the Water elementals to cool my head>>


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:07:52 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 14:19:58 EST, you write:

<< No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery scheduled
for February 15th (a Monday). >>

I still maintain the baby should be given the Nova Roman name of Romulus to
honor his planned birth on the Lupercalia!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Kids R Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:10:28 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 14:55:39 EST, you write:

<< With the pending birth of a mini-Citizen, shouldn't we set up a Register
of Births or something? What was the ancient practice of registering
newborn babies? I seem to remember reading something about this. >>

I would think that would be left to the Vestals...

Can someone clarify or confirm?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:20:09 -0800 (PST)

Salve!!

I think we should hold auditions!

All applicants, male or female alike, are to prepare their own
Strophum and be ready at our command to show it off!

Noct'a

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 11:30:47 EST, you write:
>
> <>
>
> You're not gonna find a better model than me! Cindy Crawford was
pickin'
> garbage before I taught her how to walk and wear that mole!
>
> --Dexippus
> "I have one thing to say...YOU...BETTER...WORK!"
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Kids R Nova Roma
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:23:22 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 14:55:39 EST, you write:
>
> << With the pending birth of a mini-Citizen, shouldn't we set up a Register
> of Births or something? What was the ancient practice of registering
> newborn babies? I seem to remember reading something about this. >>
>
> I would think that would be left to the Vestals...
>
> Can someone clarify or confirm?
>
> --Dexippus
>
I can. NO WAY! Who am I, Louise Woodward or something?
I hope this clears the matter up for you.

Really, though, I think the NR parents should get together and research
some way to include children in the Micronation. Maybe their own page on
the Website...with some of Pythia's lovely stories from mythology? And a
spot for the kids' artwork and stories about Rome?

I'm sure Patricia Cassia just loves the idea of adding more to the
Website!

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	Re: Punishment for Germanicus?
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:55:11 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 20:15:46 EST, you write:

> However, it strikes me that the above post _is_ a personal
> attack, just disguised as magnanimous sentiments.>>

Actually not trying to be magnanimous at all. :) Just information and an
explanation. I sincerely desire a cease to ANY personal attacks on this list.
We can certainly, as a group, disagree at times, but there is never a need to
drop the level of the conversation to it's basest form.

> If a post is offensive, it's usually best just to delete it and
> forget about it (you have every right to delete this one if you don't
> like it!).

Agreed. And there was no need to delete this post, as you made a point in a
polite way. :) That is something we should all strive for, and something
Nova Romans, as a rule, manage to acomplish regardless of the subject matter.

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: New cult for NR!
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:57:00 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 20:28:17 EST, you write:

> Yes...I realized after I signed off last night who you are. : )

::waves:: Well cool! And hello again!

> By the way...congratulations to you and Joe on your nuptials. I hope the
> day
> was all you expected it to be.

Thank you very much! It was perfect....okay okay so maybe I am biased! LOL
Seriously though, the good wishes are very welcome and it truly was an
unforgettably wonderful day. :)

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:58:43 EST

Gaius Marius Merullus wrote:
{SNIP}
>I think that you must have missed quite a few posts on this debate, because
>it is not about compulsory practice of any religion for the citizenry at
>large. Rather, it is about the extent of public participation in religion
>required of
>
>A) Magistrates (Consul, Praetor etc.)
>B) Senators
>
>It wont help any resolution of the topic to admix to the above notions about
>religion being forced like this -
>
>
>>From: LSergAust@--------
>>
>
>>way in Nova Roma. I just don't think it desireable that we have a
>>draconian law to bind everyone to a _particular form of religious
>>practice_ as a requirement for full participation. That is where my
>>dissention mainly lies.
>
>If that is where your dissension lies, abandon that dissension! No such law
>exists or has been proposed publicly.

Actually, according to many of our coutrymen/women here, that is the law
as it exists now. Although it is contrary to what one might be led to
think upon reading the main page of our Web site, the Constitution says:

"All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be
required to observe the Sacred Days of the Year, and to honor and offer
sacrifice to the Gods and Goddesses that made and make Rome great."

Many people here have interpreted that to mean that anyone who feels
unable to practice the public rites of the reconstructed Religio Romana
is not entitled to participate fully in the life of the nation.
"Citizens" who are not permitted to serve in public office are thereby
denied full participation. I agree that there is some semantic leeway
here, depending upon how our current authorities interpret this clause of
the Constitution. However, clearly, some citizens want it interpreted in
the most conservative, literal, "fundamentalist" and exclusionary way. I
hope they don't prevail. Time will tell.

I have to say that I, myself, have some ambivalence about this. I have
said many times that I think the centrality of religion to both public
and private life was an important part of the Roman way of life, as was
the duty of each Roman to serve the Republic. And I would hate to lose
the particular Roman character of the Religio Romana in public rites. But
I would also hate to see good people excluded from full participation for
religious reasons.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

Like you, however, I am going to try to extricate myself from the melee'
here. Everyone's position seems to be clear by now.

nullae satisfactionis potiri non possum


Subject:	Re: Who is this?
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:59:13 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 21:12:03 EST, you write:

> Uh...no...I have a problem with that. Who is she, where did she come from?
> How do I know she's truly your wife?

::evil grin:: Heh heh heh......oh dear! They're on to me.....;P
>
>
> LOL...only kidding all! It's now just comical isn't it?

Now that ya mention it.....yup! LOL

Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:09:54 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 20:06:30 EST, you write:

<< I do not believe that
you could fulfil a promise to a God which you didn't believe in!
Could you honestly say, if you weren't a practitioner of the Religio
Romana, you wouldn't want to stand for office?
Do you think that is right?
Look at it from the perspective of people of other beliefs. >>

Nocturnia...you are correct, but remember that Nova Roma is a volunteer
organization. We all volunteered to become citizens and abide by the
constitution. Not change it once we're in to suit our personal desires or
wishes.

Nova Roma was founded as a Roman Pagan organization. We have been gracious to
open our doors to people of other faiths (as is only right). But I would dare
not join the church choir down the street because I want to sing and then try
to get them to perform a public Wiccan ritual! It just won't work!

In the same voice...if non-Roman Pagans wish to become citizens of Nova Roma,
they are more than welcome to. If they can perform the duties of a magistrate
without violating their own personal beliefs, then they are welcome to run for
office (note: this may include offering prayer, sacrifice, or offerings to a
deity at any given point in time). If they can not do so, then I maintain
that they abstain from seeking public office.

I, and others, are taking our belief and position of dedication to the Ancient
Gods and Goddesses of Rome very seriously. And I would not be too happy to
find someone in a leadership position who thinks of it nonchalantly (did I
spell that right?).

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:19:11 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 21:26:59 EST, you write:

<< All applicants, male or female alike, are to prepare their own
Strophum and be ready at our command to show it off! >>

Stand Back...Ms. Damianus Lucianus Dexippus coming through!

--ME


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:22:47 -0800 (PST)

Salvete

> I, and others, are taking our belief and position of dedication to
the Ancient
> Gods and Goddesses of Rome very seriously. And I would not be too
happy to
> find someone in a leadership position who thinks of it nonchalantly
(did I
> spell that right?).

Dex, I also take my beliefs very seriously but even if a
non-pagan/non-Romanpagan was in a magistracy they wouldn't think of it
nonchalantly(I followed your spelling!).
I think that all who are in Nova Roma have respect for the Religio
Romana whether they follow it or not.
Just as you or I have respect for their beliefs.

> Nova Roma was founded as a Roman Pagan organization. We have been
gracious to
> open our doors to people of other faiths (as is only right). But I
would dare
> not join the church choir down the street because I want to sing and
then try
> to get them to perform a public Wiccan ritual! It just won't work!

Hmm do you know me personally? I actually belong to a church choir!!
A Cathedral choir no less!

Noct'a
In humble thanks to Marius Fimbria I use this abbreviation!

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 20:06:30 EST, you write:
>
> < you could fulfil a promise to a God which you didn't believe in!
> Could you honestly say, if you weren't a practitioner of the Religio
> Romana, you wouldn't want to stand for office?
> Do you think that is right?
> Look at it from the perspective of people of other beliefs. >>
>
>
> Nocturnia...you are correct, but remember that Nova Roma is a
volunteer
> organization. We all volunteered to become citizens and abide by the
> constitution. Not change it once we're in to suit our personal
desires or
> wishes.
>
> Nova Roma was founded as a Roman Pagan organization. We have been
gracious to
> open our doors to people of other faiths (as is only right). But I
would dare
> not join the church choir down the street because I want to sing and
then try
> to get them to perform a public Wiccan ritual! It just won't work!
>
> In the same voice...if non-Roman Pagans wish to become citizens of
Nova Roma,
> they are more than welcome to. If they can perform the duties of a
magistrate
> without violating their own personal beliefs, then they are welcome
to run for
> office (note: this may include offering prayer, sacrifice, or
offerings to a
> deity at any given point in time). If they can not do so, then I
maintain
> that they abstain from seeking public office.
>
> I, and others, are taking our belief and position of dedication to
the Ancient
> Gods and Goddesses of Rome very seriously. And I would not be too
happy to
> find someone in a leadership position who thinks of it nonchalantly
(did I
> spell that right?).
>
> --Dexippus
>
>
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> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Kids R Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:22:09 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 21:37:19 EST, you write:

<< Who am I, Louise Woodward or something? >>

Well...having never met you, I can't not say for sure. But hey, maybe...maybe
not!

LOL

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Political Discussion
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:29:48 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 21:59:38 EST, you write:

<< However, clearly, some citizens want it interpreted in
the most conservative, literal, "fundamentalist" and exclusionary way. I
hope they don't prevail. Time will tell. >>

Oh let's not go there...alright! I could say the same about "some citizens
who are the most liberal and have no reverence for the purpose of our nation".

I doubt anyone here is a Fundie...there's just the idea of following our
original direction. Plain and simple. See my earlier posts about non-Pagans
serving in public office as long as they can perform their sacred duties when
called on.

And I'm still waiting for that public apology! <<long-dead religion>>

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:31:57 EST

In a message dated 98-11-06 22:22:11 EST, you write:

<< Hmm do you know me personally? I actually belong to a church choir!!
A Cathedral choir no less! >>

Ok...now would they have you lead a Pagan ritual before practice or
performance? If they do...I want to meet that Pastor!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:34:40 -0800 (PST)

*Sets up the catwalk and the lighting*
*In her best presenter voice*

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen. We are here today for a show
centering completely on Roman undergarments.

OK and here we have Damianus Lucianus Dexippus modelling the Strophum.
This ancient undergarment comes from Rome and was the equivalent of a
modern-day brassiere.
This amazing item can be worn in many different ways, our model,
Dexippus is showing us the straightforward wrap around and underneath
support way.

Next, Dexippus will be modelling as a dancing girl and showing off our
range of bikini briefs.

Thank you that is all for this show

Noct'a

Humble thanks to Marii

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 21:26:59 EST, you write:
>
> << All applicants, male or female alike, are to prepare their own
> Strophum and be ready at our command to show it off! >>
>
> Stand Back...Ms. Damianus Lucianus Dexippus coming through!
>
> --ME
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:38:57 -0800 (PST)

Nah,

No leading of rituals. I also tend not to do any rituals in the
Cathedral anyway

Noct'a
In humble respect of the lone soldier

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 22:22:11 EST, you write:
>
> << Hmm do you know me personally? I actually belong to a church
choir!!
> A Cathedral choir no less! >>
>
> Ok...now would they have you lead a Pagan ritual before practice or
> performance? If they do...I want to meet that Pastor!
>
> --Dexippus
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Explanations
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:52:19 -0800 (PST)

Salvete!

Hey Pythia, I get on really well with the Canons from my Cathedral and
probably know more about what goes on in that place than most of the
congregation!!

Golf, yes that's a good one, but at Manchester Cathedral, Astronomy
helps, which is good as I study it!!

Noct'a

Thinking of helping to form a legion for the lone soldier

---Pythia kingan@-------- wrot--------r> >
> From: Pythia kingan@--------
>
> A. Iulia wrote:
> >
>
>
> >
> > Hmm do you know me personally? I actually belong to a church choir!!
> > A Cathedral choir no less!
> >
>
> This made me laugh! I go to an Anglican church too. The more "bells
and
> smells" the better! lol
>
> You know the requirements for being a good Episcopalian(Anglican)?
>
> I . You need to know how to make a good Gin and Tonic,
>
> II. You need to play (choose any that apply) Golf, Squash, or Tennis
>
> III. You need to know how to arrange the seating at a dinner
party.(You
> can cook if you want, but catered is ok, too)
>
>
> ;-), Pythia
>
>
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> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:54:12 -0600

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:07:52 EST Dexippus@-------- writes:

><< No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery
>scheduled
> for February 15th (a Monday). >>
>
>
>I still maintain the baby should be given the Nova Roman name of
>Romulus to
>honor his planned birth on the Lupercalia!
>
>
>--Dexippus
>

Actually, I don't know exactly WHO would be in charge of giving Lapis his
(at least temporary) Latin/Roman name. I have put my poor, dear
Palladius on the spot to come up with one, not 100% sure if it is
actually his 'job'. You don't want me doing it -- my Latin is
horrible!!!!! You thought the Auger/Augur thing was a hoot?!?!?!

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: What was that? Huh?
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:06:32 -0600

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:34:40 -0800 (PST) "A. Iulia"
iuliacaesaria@-------- writes:

>Next, Dexippus will be modelling as a dancing girl and showing off
>our
>range of bikini briefs.
>
>Thank you that is all for this show
>

Gee Dex, I sure wish I had your figure!!! I wish I had ANYBODYS figure
(I'm looking more like a Teletubbie every day!!)

Where's the snack bar???

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:44:07 EST

In a message dated 11/6/98 1:21:11 PM Central Standard Time,
amethystcrystallight@-------- writes:

<< although I am
ready to defend my decision to have a second PLANNED cesarian (there
really ARE reasons and I *will* explain them if needed -- >>

I've been a counselor for women with repeat c-sections - if you have any
questions or concerns, or just need a little support for your decision, let me
know.....

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: The Birth of Lapis Stone (Secundus Iunius Something-or-other)
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:16:18 -0800

Amethyst C Light wrote:

> Salvete --
>
> No date is certain, but I am going to try to have the surgery scheduled
> for February 15th (a Monday).

Lupercalia!!! That is a good birth day for a boy Roman.

> This is a date that has been popping up in
> dreams and meditation anyway, so I'm going to see if I can run with it!!
> Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)

Vale,
Ericius


Subject:	Re: Venit Concordia! (Thank you was Explanations)
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:32:46 -0800

Thank the Guardians of Civilizations! Another Yankee! (I don't want to be the
onlyl one getting shot at.)

Ericius

> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-06 09:43:47 EST, you write:
>
> << We would have a civil war! >>
>
> I'm a Yankee!

> <snip>

> --Dexippus