| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:33:30 +0000 |
|
Nodigio@-------- wrote:
WOW!! Can you make a "patterns page" for the website!?
Pythia
>
> Speaking of which.......does anyone need patterns? In a previous business
> incarnation, I worked as a garment restorer/duplicator for museums, so I have
> tons of ancient clothing patterns.
>
> Secunda FLoria Zonara
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Are you ready to put all of your color pictures on your website or email
> them to friends? XOOM.com has high quality scanners for only $69.95!
> <a href="http://orders.xoom.com/scn/lsscn1105/" target="_top" >http://orders.xoom.com/scn/lsscn1105/</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Roman kiddies.../Additional address |
| From: |
Pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:55:38 +0000 |
|
Nodigio@-------- wrote:
(well, if they
> didn't MY kids did! I made a whole line of Deity Dollies and Mythological
> Creatures for my children - my son - at 13, still sleeps with his centaur doll
> and my 16 year old daughter loves showing off her Dryad and Minerva dolls).
> They had racing chariots and horses, and all the assorted other things
> children like to play with - sports equipment like balls were common.
>
> We can always create Roman type toys for our children. We can improvise from
> the existing marketed toys, and we can make them from scratch. Who says boys
> can't have as much fun racing chariots as they do racing cars?
>
> Secunda Floria Zonara
Secunda,
Between your Roman Patterns and your ideas for toys, you should be
declared a National Treasure!!
Pythia
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> Did you ever want to participate in video chats, send real-time video
> and video mail? Now you can, AND at a super low price--ONLY $89.95!
> <a href="http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/emzvc921" target="_top" >http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/emzvc921</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna proserpina@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 00:02:46 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I would like to add my opinion to the topic at hand. One of the main
reasons... no, the main reason for my deciding to become a citizen of Nova
Roma was because of the Religio Romana. Had this been just another SCA type
group, I'd have seriously put off applying for citizenship until I'd
forgotten about it more than likely. Now, I'm sure this is not the case for
all citizens of Nova Roma, but I believe there are others who are like me.
I understand that no matter what Religio Romana will always be the state
religion (at least until Constantine comes into power), but some of us wish
to make the Religio our main focus here. Perhaps Nova Roma has grown to the
point where there needs to be a branching from the stem where it has taken
root. I can see a time where there are different "divisions" of Nova Roma
much like the division of email lists that were recently suggested. Let
those who are not practitioners or those who do not honor the Religio have
their place here, but as it was (in the Coloseum! Oops... where did that
come from?) and most certainly not in a place of power, for we wish to
preserve our Religio and not allow another Constantine to make a change of
such magnitude again.
Vale,
Orbianna
At 17:10 07/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
>
> Other goals- interesting, but exactly what goals other than forming
>the basis of a Religio Romana nation/state and informational resource
>that citizens can access in order to pursue hobbies such as history,
>reenactment, etc. I don't think anyone needs to be isolated since if a
>person were let's say a devout Christian opposed to all other forms of
>worship they wouldn't be here.
> There is a distinction made between public and private worship. If
>someone can accept offering a pinch of incense and stand at a
>ceremony/ritual honoring the very real Gods and Goddesses of the Religio
>Romana and yet have their belief in a Christian god or a Hindu
>god/goddess or whatever the case may be in that persons private life
>then there is no conflict of interest in becoming a magistrate. It
>really depends on the moderation of one's own viewpoint of the divine.
>Being respectful toward the Religio. I think that the entire pagan
>community here is kind of wary of someone not taking the Religio Romana
>with any seriousness at all and being elected to an important office- or
>worse trying to actively thwart it. That is why an oath is taken when
>one is elected to the gods. Just something I was thinking about today.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Diana T. Hanley Bergman
proserpina@--------
----------------------------
Don't you know of tormented souls? They need dreams and action and the
purest of passion. And so we throw ourselves into fancies and madness.
-Rodolphe Boulanger in Flaubert's "Madame Bovary"
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
-Edgar Allen Poe
|
| Subject: |
religion |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 00:43:43 -0500 |
|
Maybe I just don't understand the problem.
I'm a pagan. I really believe in it and love it. It WORKS for me.
But I have Christian friends and Jewish friends, and every once in a
while they ask me to go to their services. I don't believe the way they
do, but it isn't going to kill me to sit there, be polite and
respectful, and maybe learn something.
I'd ask them to do the same at one of my rituals. I don't know squat
about Asatru, but I've learned some from listening to the Asatruers
here.(thank ya Venator!)
We've really gotten hot at times on this subject, me too, but I think
we're making this one of those tempest/teapot deals. We've got a big
chance here to do it better than its been done before.
So maybe a Senator isn't a Pagan. So what? It isn't going to kill him
or her to be polite and respect the Religio. It isn't going to kill us
Pagans because a 'non-Pagan' is taking part in a ritual. As long as the
Senator RESPECTS our gods, that's more than enough to get the job done.
Frankly, if a Catholic friend asked me to light a candle in front of St.
Jude or somebody for them, I'd do it. Not because I believe in St. Jude,
but because my friend does and I'm sure Jude wouldn't mind. I don't
think Jupiter Ops Max would mind, either, if a Jewish Senator lit some
incense for him.
As long as the intent of the action is RESPECT for all gods, it
doesn't have to be BELIEF, does it?
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: looking for book |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:56:55 -0500 (EST) |
|
On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 LSergAust@-------- wrote:
> From: LSergAust@--------
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Does anyone here know where I might find the novel _The Protagonists_ by
> Ernest K. Gann?
>
> It is the sequel to _The Antagonists_ by the same author, which is a
> dramatization of the siege of Masada by Legio X under Flavius Silva
> (later made into the movie "Masada").
>
> I have already searched for it at Amazon.com, without success.
>
> Both books should probably be included in our list of books about Rome,
> although I think both are out of print. I found my copy _The Antagonists_
> in a flea market many years ago. Still searching for the sequel. Flavius
> Silva disappeared from history after the "victory," and it would be
> interesting to see what Gann made of his story.
I would try ABE; the Advanced Book Exchange (abebooks.com I believe) where
the inventories of hundreds of used book stores literally around the
world are listed. I have always found the book I was looking for through
them, no matter how obscure.
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:14:08 -0600 |
|
On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 00:43:43 -0500 m--------oon@-------- wr--------:
>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>Maybe I just don't understand the problem.
> As long as the intent of the action is RESPECT for all gods, it
>doesn't have to be BELIEF, does it?
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
I asked this question once. I'm of the same mind as you are. I THOUGHT
the answer was given something like a month ago: That as long as proper
respect was given nobody cared what the personal religion was. Maybe
it's the fact that there is some kind of office involved. Somebody
mentioned the Pope always being Catholic and a couple of other examples.
So, I was of the understanding that no one would ask for a Priesthood if
they weren't Religio Romana but that anyone running for anything, or
participating in a ritual would show respect if they weren't of the state
religion.
I lived with a family that was Conservative Jewish. I was not included
in the Shabbos ceremonies, but I stood quietly by while it was held (this
wasn't my choice, I just figured as a non-Jewish I wasn't supposed to
participate, since I wasn't invited). I went to the funeral of a
Catholic and stood, sat and did whatever everyone else was doing.
I just want clarification. It's bad enough I have to live in the US (I
don't know about England Nocturnia), a country I love but where I can't
live where I want, love who I want, worship out in the open and live half
scared to death for my children because of racism and the religions of
their parents. In a (at the moment) cyber-community, I somehow never
dreamed this issue would ever come up. Now that it has, you're damn
skippy I'm getting nervous!!
I read the Nova Roma web page, albeit some time ago. I joined the
mailing list way before I joined up. I bounced my concerns and fears off
of Palladius before I joined up. I really don't know where this issue
came from, but it's getting a smidge too close to crap I have to deal
with IRL (in real life) for MY comfort anyway.
I'm 'bout ready to burn this flippin soapbox!!!!!!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Non-paid political announcement |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:21:05 -0500 (EST) |
|
Welcome to the race Claudia! I look forward to hearing more of your vision
for the future of Nova Roma!
Decius Iunius Palladius
Candidate for Consul
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
R:[novaroma] Roman kiddies |
| From: |
Fabio Incutti incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:22:58 +0100 |
|
----------
Da: Amethyst C Light[SMTP:amethystcrystallight@--------]
Inviato: domenica 8 novembre 1998 15.06
A: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; mater2romani@j...
Oggetto: [novaroma] Roman kiddies.../Additional address
From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
Salvete cives,
think this will interest many subscribers of this list.
Made me wonder about Roman children.
Did they participate in anything? Were they
like people, or basically educated, fed and housed until they were old
enough to vote.
In ancient Rome the status of kids was the one of members of a familia. That's all.
The paterfamilias had great power over the members of the family and, in the very ancient times, he had the ius vitae et necis, which corresponds, more or less, to a sort of criminal jurisdiction.
Kids were completely subjected to this power and were considered like objects. Infact, the power of _mancipatio_ (i.e. the power to sell or give to others things belonging to the family, such as fields, houses, etc.), was extended to the filiifamilias.
Those given away had a singular status in which they still had their names, but in mancipio (of another paterfamilias).
This kind of organization was tipical of the late monarchy and early Republic times and corresponds to an arcaic and agrestis society; it survived in the Empire but with a great compression of the powers of paterfamilias.
Vale
Primus Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Non-paid political announcement |
| From: |
"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 02:26:04 -0800 |
|
Maybe we should have our Candidates for Consul Debate... to hear their plans
for Nova Roma!
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:21 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Non-paid political announcement
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>
>
>
>Welcome to the race Claudia! I look forward to hearing more of your vision
>for the future of Nova Roma!
>
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius
>
>Candidate for Consul
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Nova Roma as nation/state was Political Discussion |
| From: |
"RMerullo" merullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:01:49 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Corneli et alii
I found your post very interesting and raising questions that transcend the
recent heated debate over religion and its relationship to magistracies and
senatorial rank (but come back to it, strangely enough).
In the interest of pursuing a debate on the applicability of these ideas to
Nova Roma, I would like to match definitions with you.
You use the term 'state'. Do you agree that a state is a set of
institutions through which some population (citizens, subjects etc.)
protects its common interests, by such means as laws and defensive
structures (police, militias, armies)?
Political scientists, as you know, use the combination 'nation/state' to
describe the entities that comprise the modern international system (or, if
you prefer 'sovereign entities). Since Nova Roma is dedicated to
re-building Republican-era Rome, I think that the application of modern
terminology to an ancient subject, and to this specific one, needs some
attention before a meaningful debate can take place.
I offer a definition of 'state' above; now for 'nation'. Shared ethnic or
social identity, usually identifiable by common language (French is spoken
by the nation of French people, German by the nation of German people,
etc.). Of course, not all modern sovereign entities fit this definition
well (Yugoslavia and the United States of America, among others, deviate
significantly from the nation/state model).
I postulate that Republican-era Rome differs even more significantly from
the modern nation/state model. The state apparatus was created largely to
protect the interests of a much more closely-knit group of people - a tribal
nation, whose national bond was more perhaps more like that of the Iroquois
Nation than that of, say, the United Kingdom. Because the development of
modern states has borrowed heavily from Rome, we have a lot of cognates and
similar terms, but with very different meanings.
I hypothesize that part of Roman 'nationality' (not citizenship), in
addition to language, was observance of Religio Romana. The fact that
religious duties were built into public offices of the tribal nation, while
laws dealing with religious diversity or justifying public religious duties
dont seem to be extant (noone has posted anything supporting such, nor have
I ever heard/read of it) lead me to this hypothesis.
But, before this can move forward, can we establish agreement on
definitions, or do they need to be modified?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: L.Corn--------s Sulla Al--------us@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:21 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Political Discussion
I have seen this Religious discussion go on and on..and I have posed
this question to some Citizens..now I am going to post it to everyone. Is
NR more important than the relgion or is the Religion more important than
the State. Becuase as I see it..the State is more important than the
religion...That is not saying that the religion is not important..or that I
am trivilizing the issue...I am not. BUT, as a political scientist, this
can create a major shift in the emphasis of our "microNation." WE are an
Nation. and the development of Nations forced religious issues in the back
drop...becuase Religion serves as a divesive instead of a Cohesive force
when it comes to the State. Religion has been used as a tool of the State
since Ancient times...not the other way around.
Now, I expect alot of response to this..and let me state my personal
opinion. I believe that the State is more important than the religion. I
believe that the religion will survive, as it has up to this point. But,
the State needs nurturing and support from all elements of society. That is
my PRIMARY concern..is the growth and development of the State. As a
citizen, who supports the Goals of Nova Roma. I am offering my services to
the State to accomplish its goals...Political, Social and Religious. I have
my own beliefs and some of them differ from the Majority, and that is
perfectly fine....that is life in a Republic.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
|
| Subject: |
R:[novaroma] Nova Roma as nation/state was Political Discussion |
| From: |
Fabio Incutti incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:58:57 +0100 |
|
Salvete cives,
----------
Da: RMerullo[SMTP:merullo@--------]
Inviato: luned́ 9 novembre 1998 18.01
A: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Oggetto: [novaroma] Nova Roma as nation/state was Political Discussion
Salvete Luci Corneli et alii
You use the term 'state'. Do you agree that a state is a set of
institutions through which some population (citizens, subjects etc.)
protects its common interests, by such means as laws and defensive
structures (police, militias, armies)?
Political scientists, as you know, use the combination 'nation/state' to
describe the entities that comprise the modern international system (or, if
you prefer 'sovereign entities). Since Nova Roma is dedicated to
re-building Republican-era Rome, I think that the application of modern
terminology to an ancient subject, and to this specific one, needs some
attention before a meaningful debate can take place.
I offer a definition of 'state' above; now for 'nation'. Shared ethnic or
social identity, usually identifiable by common language (French is spoken
by the nation of French people, German by the nation of German people,
etc.). Of course, not all modern sovereign entities fit this definition
well (Yugoslavia and the United States of America, among others, deviate
significantly from the nation/state model).
Absolutely right.
I postulate that Republican-era Rome differs even more significantly from
the modern nation/state model. The state apparatus was created largely to
protect the interests of a much more closely-knit group of people - a tribal
nation, whose national bond was more perhaps more like that of the Iroquois
Nation than that of, say, the United Kingdom. Because the development of
modern states has borrowed heavily from Rome, we have a lot of cognates and
similar terms, but with very different meanings.
This, only if you refer to the very origin of Roman State. I mean the original city founded by Latins and Etruscian (is that right in English?) groups - translated into the mitology of the two brothers feed by the wolf. And, also in this case, you should admit, the State/institution had also the meaning of linking together different people having different (even if non opposite) taditirns.
I hypothesize that part of Roman 'nationality' (not citizenship), in
addition to language, was observance of Religio Romana. The fact that
religious duties were built into public offices of the tribal nation, while
laws dealing with religious diversity or justifying public religious duties
dont seem to be extant (noone has posted anything supporting such, nor have
I ever heard/read of it) lead me to this hypothesis.
Being true what I said before, Religio Romana was not only a common religious _feeling_ but also a political _system_ to ensure social coesion.
That's why the State/apparatus couldn't admit religion diversity while, as Roman society become more multiethnic, private religious diversity was accepted.
The fact that you cant find laws prohibiting religious diversity, in my opininion, comes from the essential undivisibility of ancient state and church and from the preminent role of tradition in law. Do not forget that only during the middle Republic times the difference between fas and ius was completely accepted.
So that, in a system which took the basis of its law from the religious non written practice (also the XII laws were seen, at the origins, as a sort of pact with the gods), you should not be surprised not to find the kind of laws you mention.
Valete omnes
Primus Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Res Navalis |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:24:35 -0000 |
|
Salve Caius Aelius Ericius!
Just Wonderful that set of rules!!
Anyone can give me some references on ancient naval warfare?
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ricci raz--------@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 5:16 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Res Navalis
>From: Ricci raz--------@--------
>
>Salvete
>
>The following is the URL for a set of ancient galley rules I
>found on the net. Tehre seems to be a lot of dice throws, the
>ship cards are "reel purty".
>
>The name of the game is Oceanus Strategoi. I'd like to know what
>you think of it.
>
><a href="http://www.netwalk.com/~jkoppe/games/oceanus/oceanu.html" target="_top" >http://www.netwalk.com/~jkoppe/games/oceanus/oceanu.html</a>
>
>Valete.
>
>Caius Aelius Ericius
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Need a jump start on your web site? XOOM.com Web Site Templates 250 helps
>you get your site up and running in no time. Only $29.95!
><a href="http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/" target="_top" >http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/</a>
>
|
| Subject: |
Nova Roma First Birth |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:30:29 -0500 (EST) |
|
Dear Lady;
Please accept my heartfelt congratulations in regard to the forth
coming event. In my estimation the coming subject event will always
take precedence over mere political matters, and be it known to you that
your posts are a welcome relief from such.
I further congratulate you on making your own decision in regard to
the birth of your child. Family can at times be extremely valuable, but
ttere are times when they can overwhelm you with useless advice, and
cause hesitation which can be difficult and dangerous, because in most
cases they simply do not know what they are talking about! I
congratulate you in believing in yourself enough to make your own
decisions.
In closing , my dear, let me also say that I join the rest of our
group in supporting you and in eagerly awaiting the birth of this child.
To this I shall add my prayers for a sucessful and painless delivery.
My thoughts and prayers go with you at this time, and I wish you the
very best from Nova Roma as a member, and myself as an admirer.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Germanicus |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:11:28 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve Respected Roman!!
My dear sir;
I do not know you well, or in actuallity at all ,except by your
reputation which has been in much display on this list of late. First
let me most humbly offer my profound best wishes for your recent
marriage, and for your continued happiness as you move through life with
your new companion. I have also been blessed with a lovely, skilled,
and caring wife of some 38 years, and my world has never been so
satisfying, since my marriage. I sincerely wish that for your and yours
as well.
In regard to your situation, which I know little to nothing about,
I can make no comment, nor would it be proper to do so. However, I feel
constrained to say that if a mere one-fourth of what has been said on
this list regarding your efforts towards this micro-nation Nova Roma is
true, then I would, without stint, support you in anything that you
wished to do. Others within Nova Roma who have my full respect have
pointed out to me and the membership your value, and as an ex-military
man who is quite used to the necessity of making quick decisions with a
minimum of error, I choose to support you on the basis of their
observations.
You have asked to be received back into Nova Roma after a
departure for personal reasons. Your past efforts and reputation lead
me to support you fully in that request and I stand for you, appealing
to the executive officers of Nova Roma in that appeal. You have asked
to be re-enstated into the Senate of Nova Roma, and as I know little of
the political nature of Nova Roma, I cannot unfortunately appeal to
anyone in this area on your behalf, as it is my understanding that the
decision lies with the Senate and perhaps the Consuls as well. In that
case, let me say this. To the Senate and Consuls I wish to point to the
efforts already undertaken by this gentleman in the not distant past and
to assure both of these august bodies my entire support in whatever
decision they will reach in regard to your request,
In closing, my dear sir, let me assure you of my support in
your future involvement with Nova Roma in whatever our executive
officers shall decide, and if there is any way in which I may be of
service to you or your family, you have but to ask.
Vale Honored Roman!!!
Marcus Municious Audens
Nova Roma Mlitary Tribune
for Engineering / Cartography
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Liburnians / Galley Warfare |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:55:39 -0500 (EST) |
|
Boy!! Talk about small world! Is Professor Coox still around? I am
sure he wouldn't remember me, but I thought he was a damn fine
instructor and historian. I was studing history at the time, and then
decided to grt my Master's in Reading Education(at that time a new
Master's Course at San Diego State.
I took all my undergraduate courses in the Navy, and after my retirement
at Grossmont. I retired in 1974 and was going to both schools for
awhile. My Master's completion came in at just the right time and I got
a great job at Convair as a Quality Assurance Analyst. I got to tell
engineers where they screwed up! That's how I got a job out here at
General Dynamics--Electric Boat, where I retired as a Senior Program
Coodinator (Helping Engineers talk to real people (-: (-: (-:).
The three way view of the liiburnian sounds great! Do you plan to copy
it and send it to interested people or what?
If you taught Galley Warfare and Tactics, you must have some information
about it. What do you think about putting together some sort of handout
/ notebook about the subject and add it to the Nova Roma Library?
I am glad to be with you, but am not sure what that means. Do you have
a club of some kind, some interested people or are yousome kind of
military study group? It doesn't really make any difference, But I'm
curious.
Thanks for the additional info, and I'll be loking for your reply.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Two E-Mail Listings |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:25:16 -0500 (EST) |
|
P. Cassius;
I for one do not believe another list would be in the best interest of
Nova Roma at te present time. Everyone feels the necessity of speaking
his / her mind about the continuing situations that face Nova Roma, and
I think that important in an organization who < for the most part, is
not able to "face to face" with te memberships. My attention to the
listas it is, I feel strongly, has aquainted me with new friends who
have the same interests / philosphies as I have (or nearly so) and there
are many whose interests and focus differs from my own. I rely on this
web to become more at one wit this Nova Roma.
Two lists would take additional effort, and I mgt become so devoted to
one list that I neglected the other (it has happened), and personnally I
do not think that would be good for my maintaining a balanced view of
this constantly evolving micro-nation.
Color my vote for two lists a flaming no.
Marcus Miucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Germanicus |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:42:04 EST |
|
Salve, Tribune Marcus Municious Audens!
I'm deeply touched, and even stunned, by your (quite public and unabashed)
show of support. I like to think my efforts in our early history were of some
value, but I would remind everyone that it was, from the beginning, a team
effort. No one person was invaluable, myself included.
While I have withdrawn my request to be re-introduced to the Senate, I have
made it known that I would be pleased to serve our Republic in any way I am
asked. If it turns out that the Senate seems the appropriate place to do so,
then I will gladly retake my place there.
Thanks again for your support and confidence, and I only hope that in the
future I am allowed to serve Nova Roma as I have in the past.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Citizen
In a message dated 98-11-09 15:11:42 EST, you write:
> Salve Respected Roman!!
>
> My dear sir;
> I do not know you well, or in actuallity at all ,except by your
> reputation which has been in much display on this list of late. First
> let me most humbly offer my profound best wishes for your recent
> marriage, and for your continued happiness as you move through life with
> your new companion. I have also been blessed with a lovely, skilled,
> and caring wife of some 38 years, and my world has never been so
> satisfying, since my marriage. I sincerely wish that for your and yours
> as well.
>
> In regard to your situation, which I know little to nothing about,
> I can make no comment, nor would it be proper to do so. However, I feel
> constrained to say that if a mere one-fourth of what has been said on
> this list regarding your efforts towards this micro-nation Nova Roma is
> true, then I would, without stint, support you in anything that you
> wished to do. Others within Nova Roma who have my full respect have
> pointed out to me and the membership your value, and as an ex-military
> man who is quite used to the necessity of making quick decisions with a
> minimum of error, I choose to support you on the basis of their
> observations.
>
> You have asked to be received back into Nova Roma after a
> departure for personal reasons. Your past efforts and reputation lead
> me to support you fully in that request and I stand for you, appealing
> to the executive officers of Nova Roma in that appeal. You have asked
> to be re-enstated into the Senate of Nova Roma, and as I know little of
> the political nature of Nova Roma, I cannot unfortunately appeal to
> anyone in this area on your behalf, as it is my understanding that the
> decision lies with the Senate and perhaps the Consuls as well. In that
> case, let me say this. To the Senate and Consuls I wish to point to the
> efforts already undertaken by this gentleman in the not distant past and
> to assure both of these august bodies my entire support in whatever
> decision they will reach in regard to your request,
>
> In closing, my dear sir, let me assure you of my support in
> your future involvement with Nova Roma in whatever our executive
> officers shall decide, and if there is any way in which I may be of
> service to you or your family, you have but to ask.
|
| Subject: |
So sorry!! |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:49:17 -0600 |
|
To NR as a whole --
I'm afraid I got a bit snippy in my post earlier and I am so sorry. I
shall blame it on hormones and try to be nicer from now on. I came close
to posting in Ebonics, but as it is about as good as my Latin, I
restrained myself <G>.
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma First Birth |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:48:19 -0600 |
|
On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:30:29 -0500 (EST) jmath669642reng@-------- (James
Mathews) writes:
>Dear Lady;
> Please accept my heartfelt congratulations in regard to the
>forth
>coming event. In my estimation the coming subject event will always
>take precedence over mere political matters, and be it known to you
>that
>your posts are a welcome relief from such.
>
Dearest Audens --
This is a good thing, as I plan on dragging Nova Roma with me into this
final trimester, beginning with an update on Lapis when I go too the
doctors tomorrow. Things ought to be getting interesting. <G>
> In closing , my dear, let me also say that I join the rest of our
>group in supporting you and in eagerly awaiting the birth of this
>child.
>To this I shall add my prayers for a sucessful and painless delivery.
I, too will be praying to whichever god is in charge of Morphine!! <G>
>My thoughts and prayers go with you at this time, and I wish you the
>very best from Nova Roma as a member, and myself as an admirer.
>
>M. Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
Keep flattering me!!! I'll make the Senate marry us!!! (the Senate did
that, right? I'm learning....sort of)
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Roman Navy. Info on naval website. |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:54:26 EST |
|
Salve Antonius Gryllus Graecus
The best resource on ancient Galley Warfare is
<a href="http://www.showgate.com/medea/bulfinch/grkship.html" target="_top" >http://www.showgate.com/medea/bulfinch/grkship.html</a>. One of my articles is on
Greek and Roman battle tactics "Mare Nostrum" is there. This is for Greek
warfare, primarily though Roman does make a showing. I haven't found one that
is dedicated to Romans. <sigh> Something else to do!
Vale!
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Lusitane |
| From: |
"T. Horatius Atticus" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:19:26 -0200 |
|
Ave Graece! Avete cives!
Considering my macaronic English and my chronic lack of time, I have been
more reading than participating of this list. Ignotum vixi, but less for
philosophical virtue than out of the circumstances. Now I have finally found
the time to join to this happy group.
There is something I wanted to send Graeco, but couldn't untill now. I
have chosen to post it in the mail list in order to render homage to the
lusophone community and to the Portuguese itself, already called "the last
flower of the Lazio". That is a poem that can be read in Latin and in
Portuguese. Perhaps it will not be so interesting for the ones, vwho don't
speak a neo-roman language, but I beg for your indulgence...
(Legete hos versus lingua Lusitana et deinde sermone Latino, accento tantum
trasposito)
Aurora
Salve, Aurora! Eia, refulge!
Eia! anima valles, montes.
Hymnos canta, o Philomela,
Hymnos jucundos, insontes.
Eia! Surge, vivifica
Pendentes ramos, Aurora.
Aureos fulgores emitte,
Pallidas messes colora.
Protege placidos somnos
Inquietas mentes tempera.
Duras procellas dissipa,
Terras, flores refrigera.
Extingue umbrosos vapores,
O Sol, divina flamma.
Lucidas portas expande
Tristes animos inflamma.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Gentes list |
| From: |
Oplontian@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:34:09 EST |
|
Salvete,
Is there something amiss with the Gentes list on the website ? I was just
looking at it and noticed that the gentes Arturia and Caecilia Metella are no
longer listed, and the gens Antonia is listed twice - as Patrician and as
Plebian.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:46:22 EST |
|
Amethyst C Light 11/9/98 2:14 AM amethystcrystallight@--------
>I just want clarification. It's bad enough I have to live in the US (I
>don't know about England Nocturnia), a country I love but where I can't
>live where I want, love who I want, worship out in the open and live half
>scared to death for my children because of racism and the religions of
>their parents. In a (at the moment) cyber-community, I somehow never
>dreamed this issue would ever come up. Now that it has, you're damn
>skippy I'm getting nervous!!
>
Amethystia Ivnia, racism exists everywhere, in all societies I know of,
although the U. S. seems to have an especially abundant harvest of it
recently. It's as alive on the Internet as anywhere else. I haven't
encountered any hint of it in Nova Roma, though. Let's hope we can keep
it that way. I can't imagine what you're getting nervous about here. I
don't think anything that's been discussed here poses a threat of any
sort.
>I read the Nova Roma web page, albeit some time ago. I joined the
>mailing list way before I joined up. I bounced my concerns and fears off
>of Palladius before I joined up. I really don't know where this issue
>came from, but it's getting a smidge too close to crap I have to deal
>with IRL (in real life) for MY comfort anyway.
Now you're worrying me, madame. If Nova Roma isn't "real life" then I
don't know why we should be here. I, at least, didn't sign up for any
fantasy trip or D&D game. I thought I was signing up for a "real life"
community, aiming at having a "real life" impact (however tiny in the
foreseeable future) on the "real" world we live in (or at least some
small parts of it). I don't really know what kind of "crap" you have to
deal with, but Nova Roma isn't likely to always be rose gardens and
sweetness and light, either. Apparently you have more friends readily at
hand here than where you are typing from, but I doubt that NR will offer
much in the way of escape from reality. Your fellow citizens may offer
you some support.
L. Sergius Aust.
------------------------------------------------------------
vita brevis sed amor longus, et amor omnia vincit.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Germanicus |
| From: |
Ricci razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:07:44 -0800 |
|
Yes. Hear him! Hear him!
James Mathews wrote:
> Salve Respected Roman!!
>
> My dear sir; <...Snip...>
>
> In regard to your situation, which I know little to nothing about,
> I can make no comment, nor would it be proper to do so. However, I feel
> constrained to say that if a mere one-fourth of what has been said on
> this list regarding your efforts towards this micro-nation Nova Roma is
> true, then I would, without stint, support you in anything that you
> wished to do. Others within Nova Roma who have my full respect have
> pointed out to me and the membership your value, and as an ex-military
> man who is quite used to the necessity of making quick decisions with a
> minimum of error, I choose to support you on the basis of their
> observations.
>
> You have asked to be received back into Nova Roma after a
> departure for personal reasons. Your past efforts and reputation lead
> me to support you fully in that request and I stand for you, appealing
> to the executive officers of Nova Roma in that appeal. You have asked
> to be re-enstated into the Senate of Nova Roma, and as I know little of
> the political nature of Nova Roma, I cannot unfortunately appeal to
> anyone in this area on your behalf, as it is my understanding that the
> decision lies with the Senate and perhaps the Consuls as well. In that
> case, let me say this. To the Senate and Consuls I wish to point to the
> efforts already undertaken by this gentleman in the not distant past and
> to assure both of these august bodies my entire support in whatever
> decision they will reach in regard to your request, < ... Snip ... >
>
> Vale Honored Roman!!!
>
> Marcus Municious Audens
> Nova Roma Mlitary Tribune
> for Engineering / Cartography
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
Valete fellow Nova Romans!
Caius Aelius Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Two E-Mail Listings |
| From: |
Ricci razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:14:52 -0800 |
|
Here Audens has another articualte view of an opinion I hold.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:23:53 -0600 |
|
On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:46:22 EST LSergAust@-------- writes:
>>
>Amethystia Ivnia, racism exists everywhere, in all societies I know
>of,
>although the U. S. seems to have an especially abundant harvest of it
>
>recently. It's as alive on the Internet as anywhere else. I haven't
>encountered any hint of it in Nova Roma, though. Let's hope we can
>keep
>it that way. I can't imagine what you're getting nervous about here. I
>don't think anything that's been discussed here poses a threat of any
>sort.
I was referring to the religious, not the racial. Seems there have been
some pretty heated discussions, or is that some other list?
>>Nova Roma isn't likely to always be rose gardens and
>sweetness and light, either. Apparently you have more friends readily
>at
>hand here than where you are typing from, but I doubt that NR will
>offer
>much in the way of escape from reality. Your fellow citizens may offer
>
>you some support.
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
And you got the idea I wanted to escape from reality where? NR is my
home, full of my people, Christian and Pagan alike. The religious
discussion on this list has been bugging me since it started, maybe
because I don't much care for discord. If wanting the people I care
about to stop bickering back and forth is wanting to escape, then I want
to escape. Argument never causes anything but harm, and maybe I have
confused 'debate' with 'argument'. Wouldn't be the first time.
I guess I'm just tired of the whole issue. Or just plain tired.
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 21:25:24 -0500 |
|
LSergAust@-------- wrote:
>
>
>
> Now you're worrying me, madame. If Nova Roma isn't "real life" then I
> don't know why we should be here. I, at least, didn't sign up for any
> fantasy trip or D&D game. I thought I was signing up for a "real life"
> community, aiming at having a "real life" impact (however tiny in the
> foreseeable future) on the "real" world we live in (or at least some
> small parts of it). I don't really know what kind of "crap" you have to
> deal with, but Nova Roma isn't likely to always be rose gardens and
> sweetness and light, either.
Hey, I get about as much stress here as in the office, but with much
more intelligent people in NR! If this isn't real life, I don't know
what is: there are real people on the other end of the computer, right?
-- unless you're all 'bots and I've been misinformed.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
All clarified!! And what a relief!! |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:49:51 -0600 |
|
I have received my clarification and am happy I am not nuts (well, not
about this issue anyway)!! :-)
I will now go back to my little corner, pick up my grape juice and resume
the watch. Thank you bery, bery much -- group been bery, bery good for
me!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:42:03 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-09 21:40:52 EST, you write:
> Hey, I get about as much stress here as in the office, but with much
> more intelligent people in NR! If this isn't real life, I don't know
> what is: there are real people on the other end of the computer, right?
> -- unless you're all 'bots and I've been misinformed.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
I am not programmed to respond in that area.
Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: All clarified!! And what a relief!! |
| From: |
JoeBloch@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:52:40 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-09 21:51:22 EST, you write:
> I have received my clarification and am happy I am not nuts (well, not
> about this issue anyway)!! :-)
>
Well I'd like to see it, for one!
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:53:38 EST |
|
Amethyst C Light 11/9/98 9:23 PM amethystcrystallight@--------
>And you got the idea I wanted to escape from reality where?
|
| Subject: |
Re: What IS Nova Roma?? (was Explanations) |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna proserpina@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:53:53 -0500 |
|
At 19:24 08/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
>On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:40:38 -0800 (PST) "A. Iulia"
>iuliacaesaria@-------- writes:
>
>>This is not, primarily, a religious organisation.
>
>
>I was under the impression it was. It is the one and only reason I
>joined. So what's the deal? What IS Nova Roma?
>
I have to say I agree with you there.
Orbianna
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------
proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
Scientia est potentia. -Francis Bacon
In Venere semper dulcis est dementia. -Publius Syrus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma as nation/state was Political Discussion |
| From: |
"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:58:31 -0800 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: RMerullo merullo@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:17 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Nova Roma as nation/state was Political Discussion
Salvete Luci Corneli et alii
I found your post very interesting and raising questions that transcend the recent heated debate over religion and its relationship to magistracies and senatorial rank (but come back to it, strangely enough).
Thank you, I am trying to go beyond the religious issues...to what I believe is being overlooked in some of our citizens posting..and that is the State itself. First off..I do not want to see religion divide our state. We are all here for one abiding reason. that is our Love of all things Roman.
In the interest of pursuing a debate on the applicability of these ideas to Nova Roma, I would like to match definitions with you.
You use the term 'state'. Do you agree that a state is a set of institutions through which some population (citizens, subjects etc.) protects its common interests, by such means as laws and defensive structures (police, militias, armies)?
No a state is much more than that..that is too simple a defination..to me a State is a Soverign entity. That has the power to make, implement and enforce its laws, is made up of citizens, and have the ability to defend itself..but much more thant that. Philosophically we are not a nation...we are a state.
Political scientists, as you know, use the combination 'nation/state' to describe the entities that comprise the modern international system (or, if you prefer 'sovereign entities). Since Nova Roma is dedicated to re-building Republican-era Rome, I think that the application of modern terminology to an ancient subject, and to this specific one, needs some attention before a meaningful debate can take place.
No..according to our Constition it states..unequiviocally we are a Soverign state. and I quote from the first line of our Constition. "We the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and Soverign Nation, here set forth this Constiution and structure of our governing institions and common society." Even our Constitution declares htat we are more than just a religious organization WE are a Nation, just as the United States is a Nation, and as Ancient Rome was a State!
I offer a definition of 'state' above; now for 'nation'. Shared ethnic or social identity, usually identifiable by common language (French is spoken by the nation of French people, German by the nation of German people, etc.). Of course, not all modern sovereign entities fit this definition well (Yugoslavia and the United States of America, among others, deviate significantly from the nation/state model).
True that is a basic defination of a Nation. Granted.
I postulate that Republican-era Rome differs even more significantly from the modern nation/state model. The state apparatus was created largely to protect the interests of a much more closely-knit group of people - a tribal nation, whose national bond was more perhaps more like that of the Iroquois Nation than that of, say, the United Kingdom. Because the development of modern states has borrowed heavily from Rome, we have a lot of cognates and similar terms, but with very different meanings.
I disagree...Republican Rome would of been a nation up to the point it began conquiring other peoples. Once Rome became a power (during the Punic Wars) it was no longer made up of Romans...it was made up of other peoples too..Italians, Sicilians, Greeks, and others. By the time the End of the Republic came...Lets face it ....Rome was an Empire, long befroe the first Emperor..even long before C. Caesar. Even after Citizenship was bestowed on all inhabitants of the Empire in 212 (i believe) Rome was not a Nation..but a State..in a sense..the Ulitmate State.
I hypothesize that part of Roman 'nationality' (not citizenship), in addition to language, was observance of Religio Romana. The fact that religious duties were built into public offices of the tribal nation, while laws dealing with religious diversity or justifying public religious duties dont seem to be extant (noone has posted anything supporting such, nor have I ever heard/read of it) lead me to this hypothesis.
But, before this can move forward, can we establish agreement on definitions, or do they need to be modified?
Well..my definatation is still the same..I think that the Constituion uses the word Nation becuase of our common similarty the love of all things Roman. My problem with this is that we are losing track of the one thing we need to constantly focus on..and that is the stability of the State. Our Government cannot prosper when its citizens disagree on such issues. We need to compromise so that we can protect the State Religion, while allowing our CITIZENS the oppourntinty to particiapte in the Government. Compromise is essential in any Republic whether it be Ancient Rome or the United States. WIthout the ability to comprosmise we alienate our citizens, and prevent our goverment to tap into its full potental of Citizens. I have stated before that as I am running for Praetor Urbanis, and Next year I will be running for Consul, I will make it my agenda to see that OUR State will be able to utilize its most precious resource, OUR CITIZENS. Because we cannot allow the ability to compromise suffer for the sake of Religion or any other devisive issue.
I stand to you as a Fellow Roman, who respects the State Religion, as much as I respect my own personal belief. We must allow a compromise it is in the Best interest of the State, and in the best interest of ourselves.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: L.Corn--------s Sulla Al--------us@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:21 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Political Discussion
I have seen this Religious discussion go on and on..and I have posed this question to some Citizens..now I am going to post it to everyone. Is NR more important than the relgion or is the Religion more important than the State. Becuase as I see it..the State is more important than the religion...That is not saying that the religion is not important..or that I am trivilizing the issue...I am not. BUT, as a political scientist, this can create a major shift in the emphasis of our "microNation." WE are an Nation. and the development of Nations forced religious issues in the back drop...becuase Religion serves as a divesive instead of a Cohesive force when it comes to the State. Religion has been used as a tool of the State since Ancient times...not the other way around.
Now, I expect alot of response to this..and let me state my personal opinion. I believe that the State is more important than the religion. I believe that the religion will survive, as it has up to this point. But, the State needs nurturing and support from all elements of society. That is my PRIMARY concern..is the growth and development of the State. As a citizen, who supports the Goals of Nova Roma. I am offering my services to the State to accomplish its goals...Political, Social and Religious. I have my own beliefs and some of them differ from the Majority, and that is perfectly fine....that is life in a Republic.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
|
| Subject: |
Re: Explanations |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:46:52 -0500 |
|
At 00:46 08/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Nodigio@--------
>Speaking of which.......does anyone need patterns? In a previous business
>incarnation, I worked as a garment restorer/duplicator for museums, so I have
>tons of ancient clothing patterns.
>
>
>Secunda FLoria Zonara
As a matter of fact... Got anything in a nifty Roman style female ensemble?
Diana T. Hanley Bergman
proserpina@--------
----------------------------
Don't you know of tormented souls? They need dreams and action and the
purest of passion. And so we throw ourselves into fancies and madness.
-Rodolphe Boulanger in Flaubert's "Madame Bovary"
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
-Edgar Allen Poe
|
| Subject: |
Quaestor Candidacy |
| From: |
Mega--------bin--------amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:15:10 -0800 |
|
Salvete Nova Romans!
I just wish to re-iterate my candidacy for the office of Quaestor as
announced in my post entitled "Petitio Pro Quaestor."
Bene Gratias!
Valete, Venator
Venator Pro Quaestor! Praescriptum Pro Omnes!
|
| Subject: |
Re: What was that? Huh? |
| From: |
Mega--------bin--------amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:55:03 -0800 |
|
Hej Dex!
>
> But does it match the gold lame toga?
>
> --Dexippus
As long as it compliments, who cares if it matches?
Vale, Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: religion |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:43:48 -0600 |
|
On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:53:38 EST LSergAust@-------- writes:
>But never mind -- if I had seen your later post, I would have killed
>my
>reply.
>
>I get a little carried away sometimes, myself.
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>
Don't worry about it!! Seems the pregnancy hormones are taking over or
eating my brain or something <G>. Nothing like a little paranoia to keep
ya on your toes!!!
>
>certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
>(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
WHEW!!! More clarification!!! What a RELIEF!!!!!!!!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Sharing clarification!! |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light) |
| Date: |
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:52:51 -0600 |
|
On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:52:40 EST JoeBloch@-------- writes:
>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-09 21:51:22 EST, you write:
>
>> I have received my clarification and am happy I am not nuts (well,
>not
>> about this issue anyway)!! :-)
>>
>
>Well I'd like to see it, for one!
>
Ummmmm, let's see...where did I put it......... ahhh, here it
is!!............
********************************************
Salve,
Hope you don't mind me writing to you personally. It's seemed like your
questions aren't getting answered on the list, so I'm hoping I can be of
help!
:)
In a message dated 11/9/98 2:17:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
amethystcrystallight@-------- writes:
>Maybe I just don't understand the problem.
> As long as the intent of the action is RESPECT for all gods, it
>doesn't have to be BELIEF, does it?
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
> I asked this question once. I'm of the same mind as you are. I
THOUGHT
the answer was given something like a month ago: That as long as proper
respect was given nobody cared what the personal religion was. Maybe
it's the fact that there is some kind of office involved. Somebody
mentioned the Pope always being Catholic and a couple of other examples.
So, I was of the understanding that no one would ask for a Priesthood if
they weren't Religio Romana but that anyone running for anything, or
participating in a ritual would show respect if they weren't of the
state
religion.>
You are absolutely correct. Nova Roma makes a clear break between Public
religion, (Religio Romana) and Private religion, which is the business of
each
individual Citizen. We make only two exceptions to this:
1. If someone applies for a Priesthood position, we do insist that they
actually practice Religio Romana personally, and have religious feeling
for
the Roman Goddesses and Gods.
2. If someone applies for a Magisterial position, we ask that they agree
to be
respectful of the Religio Romana and not to work against it. We also ask
that
they be respectful during public religious events.
Really, it's nothing to be all that confused about. You've seemed to let
other
people's confusion get to you... just because folks don't understand
these two
things doesn't mean they're not the facts! :)
> I just want clarification. It's bad enough I have to live in the US
(I
don't know about England Nocturnia), a country I love but where I can't
live where I want, love who I want, worship out in the open and live
half
scared to death for my children because of racism and the religions of
their parents. In a (at the moment) cyber-community, I somehow never
dreamed this issue would ever come up. Now that it has, you're damn
skippy I'm getting nervous!!>
Again, the facts are *real* clear. Religio Romana is the public religion
of
Nova Roma. No person will become a Magistrate if they can't live with
that.
All the discussion on the list is just that... there will NOT be a change
in
policy or on the website. Aside from that one thing, however, religion
doesn't
need to be much of a factor. Citizens can privately practice any religion
they
wish, and we'll always work to make sure that religion doesn't become a
dividing factor.
> I read the Nova Roma web page, albeit some time ago. I joined the
mailing list way before I joined up. I bounced my concerns and fears
off
of Palladius before I joined up. I really don't know where this issue
came from, but it's getting a smidge too close to crap I have to deal
with IRL (in real life) for MY comfort anyway.>
********************************************
Now, anyone may disagree with this if they want. I ain't in it no mo!!
Ya'll wanna hash it out some mo, that's on you!! I'm taking my piece of
mind and running with it!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
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|
