Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Anger management (or the lack thereof)
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:04:56 +0000

Amethyst C Light wrote:
>

<snip..........

he lost in Vegas
> (Vegas....boy that almost had me screaming)!! I suggested they come
> here, but he says that's not possible because his girlfriend doesn't like
> the cold

Amethyst, This describes a self centered man with a gambling
addiction....
yes. Gambling is an addiction!

>
> Tom wants me to travel to California for Terrys birthday (March 31st).
> That will be about 6 weeks after Lapis is born, and born by cesarian no
> less.

This is a no brainer......Fall for it once shame on him, fall for it
twice shame on YOU! Don't do this under any circumstances!

> I have just about killed myself trying to keep Tom in Terrys life. I was
<snip>

Waste of both your time....

I have yet to see any child support (he hasn't
> volunteered and the state hasn't moved on any of the information I
<snip>

And you won't see a cent until the government attaches whatever he
hasn't gambled away......but if he has left other women with souvenirs
there may not be much to go around.

I get my hopes up that Tom will put Terry first in his life and
> EVERY FLIPPING TIME he proves me wrong.

<snip>

Of course he does! And that is because you do not trust your instincts,
and are trying to be a "nice girl" and not fuss! You know as well as
everyone reading this that only the occasional pang of his guilty
conscience, and perhaps his overblown ego, EVER brings Terry to his
thoughts.

> Neither childs father seems to feel the same.

And you will never make them feel it either.

<snip>
> really feel like I am being the heavy for saying I can't do it -- that
> they need to come to us, even if it IS more expensive.

This is an example of what I call "DOORMAT SYNDROME". As long as you
continue to feel it is OK for people to walk on you, you will continue
to attract men who use you and then leave. Amethyst, you have no
obligation to anyone but your children....and you DON'T HAVE TO
ACCOMODATE ANYONE...but yourself and your children.

Amethyst, I am sorry to sound so hard, but as I can't come out to help
you in February, I felt I should give you my best, right here. There may
be those who will disagree with me, but I feel right about this.

I don't know what your background is, but it is clear to me that the
choices you have made reflect a very low opinion of yourself. But just
because this was how you related to the world in the past, there is no
universal Law that says you must continue to so. You are your own best
expert, and until you make the CHOICE to trust yourself and your
instincts, you will be stuck in the old pattern.

I really do wish you every blessing,

Pythia


Subject:	One Giant step for me!!
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:19:12 -0600

Salvete

I had to do it before I 1) lost my nerve and 2) could even think of
sleep.

I called Tom and Angela and told them that I was NOT moving. I promised
myself and (more importantly) Terry that we would stay right here until
Lapis was at LEAST a year old (visits and trips not included, but none of
those before I am healed from the surgery). I told Terrys father he had
to come here to see Terry.

He says he is coming here in February, alone, to tend Terry while I give
birth to Lapis. I need only give him the date of the c-section and he
will be here. He will spend one week.

I will believe it when I see it. It solves the "What to do with Terry"
dilemma, but I still wonder if, the day before the section, I will get a
phone call explaining some other reason why it can't happen and leaving
me high and dry in the process. I think I will work out some kind of
Plan B.

For me this is a HUGE step. I asked Juno to give me strength to deal
with this and I got it (I could FEEL the energy of so many people also,
helping me along -- my NR family and my PP friends). I don't have to
travel when I'm about to deliver and I don't have to travel with two
small children either. This strength surprises me. I have shown it with
Terrys dad before (always in desperation, like lifting the burning
overturned car off of a loved one -- a woman once called it "Mommy Tiger
Syndrome"), but never so calmly and so assured (at least I sounded and
felt that way when I talked to Ters dad). It's kind of....liberating??
It feels good anyway.

Hope springs eternal. Hopefully this is the beginning of something good
for Ter. Maybe Angela (who I DO like) HAS improved the personality of my
daughters father (although I still think SHE would make the better father
to Terry). I sure hope so.

Maybe I can sleep now.

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:00:14 -0500 (EST)

Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
little bit.
Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing to
build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas for
expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
expanding.
While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am elected
Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
for next year’s elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)

Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
speech of mine.

Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul

Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Candidacy of F. Claudia Juliana
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:41:40 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 m--------oon@-------- wrote:

> From: m--------oon@--------
>
> Candidate’s Statement: Flavia Claudia Juliana, running for Consul

> These are ideas which can, with hard work, become real. I’m not going
> into excruciating detail because I don’t have the space, but I’d like
> Citizens to consider these plans.
>
> -- Establishment of a Nova Roma University. This will offer various
> educational forums to our Citizens and others on Roman history,
> politics, Latin, architecture, archaeology, brewing and vinting, and the
> Roman pantheon. This can be done through pages on the Web but will begin
> as interactive mail-order courses taught by our Citizens who are
> knowledgeable in the fields. These are informative, not accredited.
>
> -- Public Education. This is pure PR, to make the general public aware
> of NR and our goals
>
> -- Roman Fair. Establishing a yearly "renaissance fair’ with a Roman
> theme
>
> -- Expansion of the Macellum into a mail-order catalog.
>
> -- Expansion of the Eagle into a literary and historical journal.
>
> -- Establishment of a physical homeland for Nova Roma.

I think that these are wonderful long term goals for Nova Roma which I
hope to see in my lifetime too as would most of our citizens. Perhaps the
best course, however, would be to concentrate on a few for the coming year
while keeping an eye to the future. The expansion of the Eagle is a very
real possibility for the coming year. Being the editor of the Eagle, what
ideas do you have in mind in that respect?

Of the other goals you mentioned, the one dearest to the hearts of many,
myself and Cincinnatus included, is a physical capitol or center for Nova
Roma. It will also be the most difficult to attain. I would suggest
establishing a fund, separate from the treasury, that would start to build
up the capital necessary for what will be an expensive goal to achieve.
People could contribute what money they could spare while a percentage of
money that comes into the Nova Roma treasury could go directly to that
fund, which would not be touched for any reason. This would be one
way of working for the future while also concentrating on immediate goals.

A possible goal for this coming year, similar to your idea of a Nova Roma
University but with wider applications is Nova Roma Publications.
These would be publications, mostly flyers and booklets at first,
published by and for Nova Romans. There is a definite market for this. The
noble Venator, candidate for Quaestor, is working on a booklet on brewing.
He had wanted to know whether selling a single item would be worth putting
in the Macellum. I think his booklet will be worth buying but why should
it be alone? There are many talented people in Nova Roma with a bent for
writing. We have a market here for their works and the means to promote
those works. Unfortunately, at first, we can only promote, not publish
ourselves, but we can provide the means so people can sell their works to
the Nova Roman public with a spot in the Macellum, "Nova Roma
Publications." There are many who would gladly put together their own
publications to sell, if only booklets and monograms at first. The
formation and promotion of "Nova Roma Publications" will be one of the
goals of mine and Cincinnatus' consulship.

Gratias Vestri Ago, Cives.

Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul

Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:01:21 -0000

Salvete!

>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>both of our population and of our treasury.
You should also not forget another important goal: correct working of the
Nova Roman institutions and magistracies according to the Constitution, with
the respect for the will of the people. That's why I vote Patricia Cassia!

You wanted three elements for the Triumvirate. there they are:

Decius Iunius Palladius: Senator and candidate for Consul.
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: Senator and candidate for Consul.
Quintus Caecilius Metellus: Senator and candidate for Tribune! Umbelievable!
How can a Senator watch over the Senate's actions?

Now you have the triumvirate, Cincinnatus! And I'm not watching too much
TV!!!! You'd better watch your step if you want to win the elections!

Ave Res Publica!

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:00 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------

Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
little bit.
Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing to
build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas for
expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
expanding.
While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am elected
Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
for next years elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)

Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
speech of mine.

Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul

Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.


Subject:	anger and Roman religion
From:	pjane pjane@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:52:04 -0500 (EST)

Amethyst's difficulties give us a good jumping-off point for a discussion:
What Roman deities exemplify the qualities that are most needed when
dealing with anger?

I asked Juno last night to help Amethyst do what is best for her children
and herself. It turns out Juno is one of Amethyst's personal Matrones, so
She was a better choice than I'd thought!

Here on the Nova Roma list, feelings have run high over the election, and
will no doubt continue to do so through the campaign season. It's very easy
to get irritated at someone's e-mail; should we choose a God or Goddess as
patron/matron of the list, to help us turn that passion into productive
energy for the advancement of Nova Roma?

What's your opinion?

Patricia Cassia

"Dulce et decorum est desipere in loco." (It is right and proper to be
foolish on occasion.) - attributed to Dr. Josiah S. Carberry, mythical
Brown University professor of psychoceramics


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:40 -0000

That's why I vote Flavia Claudia... a bug... =)

Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo <amg>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:57 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>Salvete!
>
>>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>>both of our population and of our treasury.
>You should also not forget another important goal: correct working of the
>Nova Roman institutions and magistracies according to the Constitution,
with
>the respect for the will of the people. That's why I vote Patricia Cassia!
>
>You wanted three elements for the Triumvirate. there they are:
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>Quintus Caecilius Metellus: Senator and candidate for Tribune!
Umbelievable!
>How can a Senator watch over the Senate's actions?
>
>Now you have the triumvirate, Cincinnatus! And I'm not watching too much
>TV!!!! You'd better watch your step if you want to win the elections!
>
>Ave Res Publica!
>
>Valete!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:00 AM
>Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
>
>
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>
>Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
>main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
>little bit.
>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
>depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing to
>build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
>tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
>treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
>for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
>that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas for
>expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
>expanding.
>While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
>at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
>be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
>that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
>bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
>of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
>Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
>in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
>you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
>To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
>the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
>could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
>to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
>I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am
elected
>Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
>into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
>be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
>With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
>be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
>for next years elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
>non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)
>
>Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
>speech of mine.
>
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul
>
>
>
>
>Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
>Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
>Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:14:18 -0000

Valete!

>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
>depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved.
How will you increase the treasury? Taxes?

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:00 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------

Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
little bit.
Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing to
build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas for
expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
expanding.
While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am elected
Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
for next years elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)

Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
speech of mine.

Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul

Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	FJGA@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:22:02 EST

I'm the member of a conspiracy? Wow, that's news to me and everyone who knows
me. As for your rather bizarre comments regarding Senators and Tribunes if
you'd do some basic reading you'd see that MANY Pleb Senators (including the
great Gaius Marius) sat as Tribune of the Plebs while seated in the Senator
(another famous one being Cato who vigorously oppossed Caeser's rise and died
in the civil wars).

If I may offer some unsolicited advice you may consider attempting to find
another platform. This "X-Files" conspiracy of yours has gotten rather old
plus I don't smoke (so I ain't Cancer Man). I genuinely admire the work you
did on the Luisitanian website and I'm not gonna attack it to further myself
in this election. My platform has always been very upfront, I chose to be a
Plebian because I felt that someone was needed to represent and protect that
class from the earliest days of NovaRoma. I rejected several attempts to make
me a Patrician, even going so far as to chose a Gens that is one of the first
and most illustrious of the Plebian class of ancient Rome.

Metellus


Subject:	Fw: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:46:56 -0000

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
To: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

>Salve Mettelli!
>
>Then why don'y you speak for the people, seing such things as Consuls
>candidating together?
>I just think your silence was suspicious.
>Moreover, since the beginning of my campaign, I've been under pressure by
>some of your fellow senators... That's not good for the Res Publica. It's
>enough to have 2 consuls running together. I just don't want to have also a
>Tribune running with them. As to your honesty, you are right. I don't know
>you enough. I just expected you to speak as you are doing now.
>
>And I ask the Iuppiter to punish me if I'm being unfair or in 'pugna
fides'.
>
>Vale!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
>To: amg <amg>; <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
>
>
>>I'm the member of a conspiracy? Wow, that's news to me and everyone who
>knows
>>me. As for your rather bizarre comments regarding Senators and Tribunes if
>>you'd do some basic reading you'd see that MANY Pleb Senators (including
>the
>>great Gaius Marius) sat as Tribune of the Plebs while seated in the
Senator
>>(another famous one being Cato who vigorously oppossed Caeser's rise and
>died
>>in the civil wars).
>>
>>If I may offer some unsolicited advice you may consider attempting to find
>>another platform. This "X-Files" conspiracy of yours has gotten rather old
>>plus I don't smoke (so I ain't Cancer Man). I genuinely admire the work
you
>>did on the Luisitanian website and I'm not gonna attack it to further
>myself
>>in this election. My platform has always been very upfront, I chose to be
a
>>Plebian because I felt that someone was needed to represent and protect
>that
>>class from the earliest days of NovaRoma. I rejected several attempts to
>make
>>me a Patrician, even going so far as to chose a Gens that is one of the
>first
>>and most illustrious of the Plebian class of ancient Rome.
>>
>>Metellus
>>
>


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	Arthur Souza Rodrigues artscorporation@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:48:58 -0300

At 10/11/98 21:37:00, you wrote:
>From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
>
>Ave Cives!
>
> Taking into consideration the discussion about the purposes and the
>limits of this list, I feel obliged to make this explanation.
> The reason why I will answer this message trough this list and not
>privately is that there can be more citizens in Brasilia Provincia with the
>same difficulties as Arthur. As some of you know, Brasilia has got a lot of
>Cives, but we are rather isolated than working as a real nation.
> One of our problems regarding the integration with Nova Roma is the
>English language. I am quite sure each novaroman citizen in Brasilia can
>understand English, but it remains nevertheless a FOREIGN language for us.
>That is why I will answer Arthur in Portuguese.
>

Exatamente. Ainda sou um veleador nesta língua bárbara. :( A entendo, porém na hora de escrever...

>Salve, Arthur!
>
> Bem-vindo a Nova Roma!
>
> Sua primeira mensagem para esta lista já a havia visto, e iria mesmo
>responde-la de pronto se nao tivesse me perdido em meio a tantas outras
>mensagens. Acredito que outros concidadaos tambem o fariam, nao fosse ter
>ela chegado a esta lista bem no meio de uma seria discussao institucional
>(nao se preocupe, entretanto, pois nem sempre as coisas por aqui sao assim
>tao sisudas!).

Tudo bem! :) E se uma pessoa realemente quer algo, ela tem que insistir, não acha?

>
> Causa-me imensa alegria sabe-lo tao interessado nas coisas romanas, ja
>que sao justamente delas que eu e muitos amigos diletos (como, v.g. o
>proprio Antonius Gryllus, que lhe respondeu anteriormente) nos vemos
>rodeados, e com a ajuda delas que perseveramos nesta vida. Nao imagino como
>seria minha vida sem os poemas de Horacio, ou mesmo sem as frases mais
>simples e lapidares da sabedoria dos antigos. Nao sobreviveria por muito
>tempo neste lugar se a vida fosse somente Coca-cola, hamburguer e filmes de
>Hollywood...

Óhh Roma! :~( Queria tanto ter nascido 3 mil anos atrás! :~( Nem me diga sobre essa corja Norte-Americana (poucos salvam).

>
> Suponho que voce, efetivamente, ainda nao se inscreveu como cidadao.
>Para tanto, precisara escolher um nome e uma familia (isto se voce nao
>quiser comecar uma familia). Tendo ja feito tudo que se impoe, basta comecar
>a se inteirar do funcionamento de nossa Republica. Para isso, nada melhor do
>que acompanhar a e-mail list, visitar a pagina de Nova Roma, e se comunicar
>com outros concidadaos.

Inscrevi-me sim! Com o Gens Rodrigues. Porém ainda não obtive resposta.

>
> Eu e a gens Horatia estamos a sua disposicao, bem como a de todo e
>qualquer brasileiro em NR, para esclarecer qualquer duvida e prestar
>qualquer esclarecimento, e mesmo para simplesmente batermos um papo.
>Outrossim, estudamos a ideia de montarmos uma pagina sobre a Provincia
>Brasilia e uma lista de discussoes.

Foi um prazer conhecê-lo! Sou Arthur Souza Rodrigues, 15 anos, cidadão da cidade mineira de Juiz de Fora. Meu ICQ: 1779742 . Devo estar mudando-me para
Brasília daqui a três anos, se passar no vestibular PAS/UnB.

>
> Um grande e cordial abraço!

Outro!

>
>
>Valete Cives!
>
>Titus Horatius Atticus
>
>esteves@--------
>
>

Arthur "Art" Souza Rodrigues
Arthurus Rodrigues


Subject:	Can anyone help a school kid who's NOT on the list?
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:40:18 EST

Salvete,

This letter has come to the Nova Roma site. I personally don't have the time
to help this kid out... but if anyone can, that would be great!

This person is NOT on the Nova Roma list. If you can answer his questions
please reply --------im direc-------- ravajidn@--------

Interestingly enough, we get at least one school kid asking for assistance
each month. Usually these are simple questions dealing with a part of a report
they're writing or whatever. I'm just too busy right now to deal with this
one, and am hoping someone from the list can help. Thanks!

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subj: Information on the Roman Pantheon and other temples/religions
Date: 11/13/98 2:28:42 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: ravajidn@-------- (D N Ravaji)
To: liber@--------
CC: feedback@--------

Hi there,
I am a year 9 student at Westlake Boys High School, in Auckland, New Zealand.
Presently, I am in desperate need of information related to Roman architecture
of temples and religion. I am required to construct a scale model of the
PANTHEON Roman temple accompanied by research and would be very greatful if
you could provide me with the appropriate information, thankyou.

I need information regarding the God/s which the temple was made for and how
they were worshipped / what those Gods were responsible for. I also need
information regarding the building and construction of the original temple.
Please send all informa-------- --------e a--------avajidn@--------

If hard copy information is needed to be sent, please inform me and I would be
very happy to provide you with a sum to cover possible expenses. If you cannot
obtain this (or relevant information) (even if you can) and you know of other
people / organizations that can provide me with information can you please
forward this message to them.

Thanking you most in anticipation of your future cooperation

Nick Ravaji (ravajidn@--------) WBHS
Auckland, New Zealand


Subject:	Re: Graecus' Fw: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:41:33 -0600 (CST)

...and I have about *had it* with Graecus' irresponsible frothing at
the mouth. Need I remind the List that this candidate was the man who
once proposed a list of 'Christian Public Enemies of the State'? Just
the sort of thing Nova Roma needs right now, eh?

--L Maria Fimbria (who is all done pretending that this hasn't upset
her just a little bit...)
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Can anyone help a school kid who's NOT on the list?
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:53:14 EST

In a message dated 11/13/98 7:45:00 AM Central Standard Time,
C--------us622@-------- writes:

> This letter has come to the Nova Roma site. I personally don't have the time
> to help this kid out... but if anyone can, that would be great!
>

I sent him a few sites and some directions on how to locate more if those
weren't enough.

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: Graecus' Fw: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:06:06 -0000

Salvete omnes!

>...and I have about *had it* with Graecus' irresponsible frothing at
>the mouth.
Well, there are many people who don't speak at all, not even against my
irresponsibility... Is there any truth in my words?

>Need I remind the List that this candidate was the man who
>once proposed a list of 'Christian Public Enemies of the State'?
We are now out of context. By that time a citizen of Nova Roma had been
insulted and humiliated by a man of the extreme right in the USA. In my list
would only figure those past characters who were responsible for the death
of Roman pagan innocents. I had never intended to persecute christians or
whatever, and all of you know that I am extremely tolerant towards other
religions in Nova Roma. This is also the man who proposed the addition of
links to Gnostic Christian sites. So, am I an enemy of the christians?

Valete omnes!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: legion6@-------- legion6@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 2:45 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Graecus' Fw: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

From: legion6@--------

...and I have about *had it* with Graecus' irresponsible frothing at
the mouth. Need I remind the List that this candidate was the man who
once proposed a list of 'Christian Public Enemies of the State'? Just
the sort of thing Nova Roma needs right now, eh?

--L Maria Fimbria (who is all done pretending that this hasn't upset
her just a little bit...)
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Mdria Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:59:22 -0500

D. Iunius Palladius wrote:

> That could be a slogan
> for next year’s elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
> non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)

Is this guy a politician or WHAT??
(Chuckling and wishing I'D thought of it!)

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Goddess Overtime
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:04:09 -0600

Salvete --

Well, Juno sure worked overtime on me. The help I have received this
entire summer (I needed a life change and I sure got one!!) and the help
received last night!!

I talked to my mother this morning and she informed me that she and my
aunt have decided to send my aunt here to help with Lapis' birth!! As my
aunt is 72 and Terrys dad is 30 my aunt will be the one staying at my
house and (since it is just in her to effectively take over <G>) be
Terrys primary care giver while I am in the hospital. Terrys dad will
just have to stay in the motel down the street (he'll bitch, but it's
that or nothin'). This news was shocking, to say the least! I'm glad
though. I may make it through the rest of this pregnancy relatively
stress-free.

I want to thank everyone who replied and prayed and lit candles, etc for
me last night. I know some men participated, although quietly :-). I
thank them too. I know not all men are insane <G> and have met a whole
new breed of caring ones.

Unsolicited parting advice: Be careful what you ask for, you may just
get it. I asked for a life change and I got it all right!! I am happy
in our little home and happy in our 'as-simple-as-I-can-make-it' life,
although the getting here was rough.

Again I thank you all!!!!!!!

"The Mommy Tiger" (or is it perhaps Lion or Peacock??)

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:07:22 -0800

Uh..Graecus..isnt Patrician Cassia running for Quaestor? Opps..you made an
error..thats not too good for a Trib of the Plebs candidate! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor (fellow Quaestor of Patricia Cassia)
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
Paterfamilias of the Patrican Gens Cornelia

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:57 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>Salvete!
>
>>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>>both of our population and of our treasury.
>You should also not forget another important goal: correct working of the
>Nova Roman institutions and magistracies according to the Constitution,
with
>the respect for the will of the people. That's why I vote Patricia Cassia!
>
>You wanted three elements for the Triumvirate. there they are:
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>Quintus Caecilius Metellus: Senator and candidate for Tribune!
Umbelievable!
>How can a Senator watch over the Senate's actions?
>
>Now you have the triumvirate, Cincinnatus! And I'm not watching too much
>TV!!!! You'd better watch your step if you want to win the elections!
>
>Ave Res Publica!
>
>Valete!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:00 AM
>Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
>
>
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>
>Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
>main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
>little bit.
>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
>depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing to
>build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
>tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
>treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
>for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
>that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas for
>expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
>expanding.
>While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
>at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
>be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
>that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
>bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
>of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
>Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
>in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
>you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
>To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
>the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
>could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
>to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
>I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am
elected
>Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
>into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
>be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
>With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
>be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
>for next years elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
>non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)
>
>Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
>speech of mine.
>
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul
>
>
>
>
>Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
>Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
>Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Goddess Overtime
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:14:16 -0500

Amethyst C Light wrote:

> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
>
> Unsolicited parting advice: Be careful what you ask for, you may just
> get it. I asked for a life change and I got it all right!! I am happy
> in our little home and happy in our 'as-simple-as-I-can-make-it' life,
> although the getting here was rough.

All RIGHT, Juno! Way to go, girlfriend Crys!
Ain't major life change a bitch? But worth it -- independence is it's own
reward, made sweeter by friends who care.

Okay, now I'm in Hallmark territory....

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:24:35 -0000

Salve Sulla!

>Uh..Graecus..isnt Patrician Cassia running for Quaestor? Opps..you made an
>error..thats not too good for a Trib of the Plebs candidate! :)
Oh yes! You are right! I thought it would go unnoticed! =)

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: L.Corn--------s Sulla Al--------us@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 3:17 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus

>From: "L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@--------
>
>Uh..Graecus..isnt Patrician Cassia running for Quaestor? Opps..you made an
>error..thats not too good for a Trib of the Plebs candidate! :)
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor (fellow Quaestor of Patricia Cassia)
>Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
>Paterfamilias of the Patrican Gens Cornelia
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:57 AM
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
>
>
>>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>>
>>Salvete!
>>
>>>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>>>both of our population and of our treasury.
>>You should also not forget another important goal: correct working of the
>>Nova Roman institutions and magistracies according to the Constitution,
>with
>>the respect for the will of the people. That's why I vote Patricia Cassia!
>>
>>You wanted three elements for the Triumvirate. there they are:
>>
>>Decius Iunius Palladius: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>>Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: Senator and candidate for Consul.
>>Quintus Caecilius Metellus: Senator and candidate for Tribune!
>Umbelievable!
>>How can a Senator watch over the Senate's actions?
>>
>>Now you have the triumvirate, Cincinnatus! And I'm not watching too much
>>TV!!!! You'd better watch your step if you want to win the elections!
>>
>>Ave Res Publica!
>>
>>Valete!
>>
>>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
>>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:00 AM
>>Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
>>
>>
>>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>>
>>
>>
>>Salvete Cives! I have mentioned in a previous message what I thought the
>>main goal of the next year should be and I want to expand on that a
>>little bit.
>>Our main goal for the coming year should be and will be, *growth,*
>>both of our population and of our treasury. All other goals of the future
>>depend exclusively upon those aims being achieved. We will be continuing
to
>>build on the foundation that our illustrious Founders left us. Of the two
>>tandem objectives I have put forth, growth of the population and the
>>treasury, the most important is the continuing growth of our population,
>>for our treasury cannot grow without citizens to put money *into*
>>that treasury. In a previous message, I expounded upon some of my ideas
for
>>expanding the treasury, today I will discuss how to keep our population
>>expanding.
>>While we have had a slow, steady growth in citizens--we stand today
>>at 176 Nova Romans--we must not be complacent that this will continue to
>>be the case without a conscious effort. What I propose to do to continue
>>that growth, fellow Romans, is to put our most important resource to work
>>bringing more citizens. That most important resource is you, the citizens
>>of our Republic. Each and every one of you are conduits into and out of
>>Nova Roma. You bring fresh ideas into our nation and you also represent us
>>in the wider world. I intend to use the office of consul to encourage
>>you to bring new citizens to Nova Roma and to reward you for your efforts.
>>To be honest I do not know what form that reward will take. At first
>>the rewards could not be anything tangible but perhaps a title or order
>>could be created for those who contribute most towards bringing new people
>>to our Republic for such people will be worthy of honor and thanks.
>>I will ask for your help in this area in putting forth ideas if I am
>elected
>>Consul. What do we name the order? How many people should one bring
>>into Nova Roma to be recognized? Any other ideas in this regard will
>>be welcome. I would like to hit 500 citizens by the end of my consulship.
>>With the help of each and every one of you, we can do that and we will
>>be ready to launch ourselves towards 1000 in 2000! That could be a slogan
>>for next years elections. 1000 in 2000! (forgive the use of the
>>non-Roman dating system but it has a nice ring to it!)
>>
>>Thank you for your time, citizens and for listening to this long-winded
>>speech of mine.
>>
>>
>>Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>>
>>Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>>
>> Seneca
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
>> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>>
>> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
>>Extant 331-363 A.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Palladius and Cincinnatus
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:31:02 EST

In a message dated 11/13/98 9:28:39 AM Central Standard Time,
amg@-------- writes:

> Oh yes! You are right! I thought it would go unnoticed! =)
>

Unnoticed? In Nova Roma? During elections? Good Luck!

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: Anger management (or the lack thereof)
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:51:42 -0500

Salve Crystallina

I wouldnt consider moving out there before the baby is born. I'm no expert
on ob/gyn, but I know that it's a little late for you to do any travelling,
and certainly far too late in the pregnancy to relocate (travelling with
burdens, physical and emotional).

I hope that it works out.

Vale

Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: Amethyst C Light amethystcrystallight@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 11:30 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Anger management (or the lack thereof)

>I talked to Ang (the girlfriend) who agrees that traveling 6 weeks after
>childbirth/major abdominal surgery was quite insane, but then suggested I
>may want to consider *moving* to where they are *before* the baby comes,
>reapply for aid there (MN will cut me off after I have been out of the
>state 30 days), have the baby and live happily ever after. Maybe they
>are *both* nuts and deserve each other. They have even offered me a rent
>free house (4 bedrooms...basically a duplex that won't be a duplex once I
>move in), transportation, everything!!! Basically MOVING out there!!
>Talking about moving me and my babies to California (actually 1 baby, as
>they want to do this BEFORE Lapis is born!!)!! And *I'm* half
>considering it!!! Am I desperate or what?????? Could this be the
>answer?? I hear California is tough on child support....maybe.
>


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:36:34 -0500

Salve Arture

Multum doleo sed non potui legere tuam epistulam solas paucas partes eius
Qualem linguam habes in mente scribens de barbara lingua

>Exatamente. Ainda sou um veleador nesta língua bárbara. :( A entendo, porém
na hora de escrever...
>

>
>Óhh Roma! :~( Queria tanto ter nascido 3 mil anos atrás!

Si recte intellexi desideras ut natus sis ante MMM annos ut posses vivere
cive Romano antiquae rei publicae Verumne

Vale

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: anger and Roman religion
From:	"RMerullo" merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:22:02 -0500

Salvete Patricia Cassia et alii

I think that your idea is a good one. Maybe you or another knowledgeable
Nova Roman could point out also a related ritual.

-----Original Message-----
From: p-------- p--------@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:05 AM
Subject: [novaroma] anger and Roman religion

>Here on the Nova Roma list, feelings have run high over the election, and
>will no doubt continue to do so through the campaign season. It's very easy
>to get irritated at someone's e-mail; should we choose a God or Goddess as
>patron/matron of the list, to help us turn that passion into productive
>energy for the advancement of Nova Roma?
>
>What's your opinion?
>
>Patricia Cassia

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:06:09 -0000

Amice Merulle!

You understand portuguese! Isn't it similar to Latin?

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: RMerullo merullo@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 3:53 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Could anybody read this? :-)

From: "RMerullo" merullo@--------

Salve Arture

Multum doleo sed non potui legere tuam epistulam solas paucas partes eius
Qualem linguam habes in mente scribens de barbara lingua

>Exatamente. Ainda sou um veleador nesta lmngua barbara. :( A entendo, porim
na hora de escrever...
>

>
>Shh Roma! :~( Queria tanto ter nascido 3 mil anos atras!

Si recte intellexi desideras ut natus sis ante MMM annos ut posses vivere
cive Romano antiquae rei publicae Verumne

Vale

Gaius Marius Merullus

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
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Subject:	Re: Can anyone help a school kid who's NOT on the list?
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:26:40 -0800

Salve, Secunda Floria Zonara.

> I sent him a few sites and some directions on how to locate more if those
> weren't enough.
>
> Secunda Floria Zonara

Could you please send me, or post to the list, the sites you referred "the kid"
to? I would sock them away to use in future situations of this sort. (And to see
what I can learn from them. I am always trying to learn.)

Thank you Zonara.

Vale,
Caius Aelius Ericius


Subject:	Re: anger and Roman religion
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:56:45 -0000

Salvete!

>>should we choose a God or Goddess as
>>patron/matron of the list, to help us turn that passion into productive
>>energy for the advancement of Nova Roma?
Maybe Concordia.

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: RMerullo merullo@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:43 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: anger and Roman religion

>From: "RMerullo" merullo@--------
>
>Salvete Patricia Cassia et alii
>
>I think that your idea is a good one. Maybe you or another knowledgeable
>Nova Roman could point out also a related ritual.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: p-------- p--------@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:05 AM
>Subject: [novaroma] anger and Roman religion
>
>
>
>>Here on the Nova Roma list, feelings have run high over the election, and
>>will no doubt continue to do so through the campaign season. It's very
easy
>>to get irritated at someone's e-mail; should we choose a God or Goddess as
>>patron/matron of the list, to help us turn that passion into productive
>>energy for the advancement of Nova Roma?
>>
>>What's your opinion?
>>
>>Patricia Cassia
>
>
>Valete
>
>Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: reply to Candidate Palladius
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:44:30 -0500

If this is a double post, I apologize. I'm having e-mail techical woes.
If not, read on...

D. Iunius Palladius wrote:

> From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
> On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 m--------oon@-------- wrote:
>
> > From: m--------oon@--------
> >
> > best course, however, would be to concentrate on a few for the coming year
> while keeping an eye to the future. The expansion of the Eagle is a very
> real possibility for the coming year. Being the editor of the Eagle, what
> ideas do you have in mind in that respect?

Soliciting more scholarly works, expanding pages, working out a budget
that we
can live with, soliciting outside advertising, arranging for printing
and
outside distribution. This is tough, but not impossible. I'dllike to see
the
Eagle become a respected journal for "armchair historians," a group that
is
greatly overlooked in favor of professional historians. But many of
history's
most important discoveries have come from amateur historians.

>
>
> Of the other goals you mentioned, the one dearest to the hearts of many,
> myself and Cincinnatus included, is a physical capitol or center for Nova
> Roma. It will also be the most difficult to attain. I would suggest
> establishing a fund, separate from the treasury, that would start to build
> up the capital necessary for what will be an expensive goal to achieve.
>

Regardless of the outcome of the elections, Palladius, I think we're
pretty
much in accord for Nova Roma's future. (Obviously, this isn't the
Clinton/Dole
debates, is it?) A very, very good idea for Nova Roma Publications, and
one that
I feel sure we can bring off. Not only would it build up our Treasury,
but it
would build our reputation -- an even more important factor than the
Treasury! I
believe we can publish as well as promote, and there are many options
for us to
get this done.

The only question I have regarding your campaign and your vision for
Nova Roma
is the increase in population, and even then, I don't disagree with the
goal,
merely the method and timing. Before we can grow too much bigger, I'd
like to
see more of the current population engaged in active involvement with
Nova Roma.
This involves putting a structure in place with committees and projects
(perhaps
the goals of the Sodalicum proposals?) that will interest various
segments of
our population. Thus, we give potential Citizens a more solid reason to
join us,
and something concrete and fulfilling to do when they become Citizens. I
suggest
that we concentrate on this first, then go whole-hog to increase the
population!

-- Claudia


Subject:	My language is my country
From:	"T. Horatius Atticus" esteves@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:39:22 -0200

Avete Quirites!

Some considerations about the future usage of the Latin language in Nova
Roma.

Primo: (Necessary digression) The title of this message is a quotation
of Fernando Pessoa, perhaps the most important poet of the Portuguese
language. I don't think its meaning could ever be well translated in
English, as this language is spoken almost throughout the world. But every
person that speaks Portuguese and have travelled a litlle knows perfectly
what Pessoa is talking about. I myself (and a I love trips) can say: what a
relief coming back to Brasil, and speak my language, understanding and being
understood for everyone, beeing able to espress myself correctly and
accurately (not always though!).

Secundo: (Coming to the point) It is not easy for me to write in
English, and even if it were, English is a foreign language for me. It is
not very pleasant for a foreigner to communicate with native speakers. Of
course you are in general very polite and woudn't be able to make fun of a
syntax or an orthographic error, but it doesn't solve the problem. Some
novaromani from Brasil aren't so involved in NR as they should because of
the language problem. It isn't funny for somebody that speaks quite
correctly his own language, to speak imperfectly another language UNLESS
everybody is in the latter situation.

Tertio: (The point) Things are going well now because the great majority
of the cives is north-american (or, namely, from the USA). However we shall
grow, and if we want to be a real Nation, we must have our own language
haben. The discussion about adopting the Latin was already held in this
list and on the Forum´s board, but I think there is much more to be said on
the topic. I am not so naïve to think it could be possible to banish the
English and use the Latin in the near future (I mean in NR, I am not an
anti-USA terrorist) but it is something we, as a nation, could dream about.

Quarto: (To the Consuls to be) The candidates Palladius and Claudia
Iuliana include in their platform (not as promisses, well understood) ideas
such as a phisical homeland for NR. Well, what language would we be speaking
in our homeland? English??? Well, we could drink Coke and play baseball as
well (I am very respectfully trying to exercise the north american irony).
I. e.: it is part of my dreams that our community speak Latin and before we
have a country, we must have a language.

Valete!

Titus Horatius Atticus


Subject:	Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:43:31 EST

Salvete,

As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision undertaken
by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the Senate
voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined by
the Constitution.

In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter or
suspend parts of the Constitution at will.

I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The Constitution, as
our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or any
Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its provisions
can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.

By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself up
as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident be
upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy to
any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might not
have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.

I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds of
our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
transfer of power.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:00:02 -0000

Salvete!

Senate of Rome, obey to the Constitution!!!! I needn't say more as I've
already said everything in previous emails, which some of you accused to be
from a lunatic or terrorist.

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:51 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>Salvete,
>
>As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
undertaken
>by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
Senate
>voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
>elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined by
>the Constitution.
>
>In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter or
>suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>
>I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The Constitution,
as
>our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
any
>Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
provisions
>can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>
>By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself
up
>as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
be
>upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy
to
>any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
not
>have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>
>I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
of
>our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
>Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>transfer of power.
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:24:07 -0000

P.S. Ave Res Publica! Ave Roma!

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:51 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>Salvete,
>
>As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
undertaken
>by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
Senate
>voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
>elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined by
>the Constitution.
>
>In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter or
>suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>
>I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The Constitution,
as
>our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
any
>Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
provisions
>can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>
>By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself
up
>as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
be
>upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy
to
>any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
not
>have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>
>I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
of
>our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
>Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>transfer of power.
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Fwd: Office of Quaestor
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:23:21 -0500 (EST)

I apologize for my delay in providing something for the Eagle. We had a
severe power outage here (sagging high power line brushed a low poer
line and cancelled power to about 15,000 to 20,000 people). It also
shifted my olde model TV from Aux. Circuit (Webtv circuit) to fail safe
circuit Normal. I had to get a TV repairman out here to get it shifted
back to Aux. Circuit again. Anyway I am back on lim=ne after an absence
of about three or four days. If this listing exceeds 500 words justcutt
off the offending sentence(s). Thank You for the caution.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:33:12 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 JoeBloch@-------- wrote:

> From: JoeBloch@--------
>
> Salvete,
>
> As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision undertaken
> by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the Senate
> voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
> elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined by
> the Constitution.
>
> In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter or
> suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>
> I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The Constitution, as
> our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or any
> Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its provisions
> can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.

With all due respect to our Co-Founder, Germanicus, this is nothing but
alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
tribal system. Once a proper elected system is in place, with Tribunes of
the Plebs in place, then any such "power grab" as Germanicus is speaking
about would be impossible. Besides if such an attempt were made, people
would leave and there would be no Nova Roma.

This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
the elections to be carried out on time. In the New Year, with a full
elected system in place, the Comitiae can be formed legally and the
Constitution amended to prevent this from happening again.

> By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself up
> as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident be
> upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy to
> any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might not
> have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.

And if that happened people would vote with their feet and leave. There is
no power grab going on here for we would be shooting ourselves in the foot
by trying something such as you are suggesting. Nova Roma is voluntary and
people would not choose to stay in an organization where its government
tried such a coup.

> I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds of
> our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
> Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections.

Without speakers of the centuries? How would the Comitia Plebis be
convened or would we just do without Tribunes of the Plebs? I don't think
we can do without the Tribunes of the Plebs. The only way to elect them
according to the Constitution is by convening the Comitia Plebis.

> Don't usurp the
> Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
> transfer of power.

Elections are being held on time. This first year was an extraordinary
year and voting directly is an extraordinary measure. The only way to do
that was by passing a Senatus Consultum to allow that. That will never
happen again as the Constitution will be amended in the coming year to
prevent that from happening again. One of the legally formed comitiae
will agree to amend the Constitution (any comitia can do it, not just the
Comitia Centuriatia). This is a one time measure being done in *good
faith* and not a way to usurp power. You are doing Nova Roma no good by
such alarmism.

Decius Iunius Palladius, Praetor Urbanus, Senator

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:36:30 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salvete!
>
> Senate of Rome, obey to the Constitution!!!!

If we did follow it to the letter in this instance, the Comitia Plebis
would not be convened and Tribunes of the Plebs would not be elected. I
want to see elected Tribunes of the Plebs and I know you do. Bear with us
through this extraordinary circumstance.

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:44:54 -0000

Salve Palladius!

>This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
>the elections to be carried out on time.
Well, I don't doubt that. But you should have annouced the measure to the
citizens. The citizens must know what is going on. That's all I ask.
Sometimes our acts in good faith can be badly interpreted if we hide them.

Ave Roma!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 6:34 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 JoeBloch@-------- wrote:
>
>> From: JoeBloch@--------
>>
>> Salvete,
>>
>> As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
undertaken
>> by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
Senate
>> voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next
month's
>> elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined
by
>> the Constitution.
>>
>> In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter
or
>> suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>>
>> I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The
Constitution, as
>> our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
any
>> Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
provisions
>> can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>
>With all due respect to our Co-Founder, Germanicus, this is nothing but
>alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
>it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
>Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
>either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
>have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
>elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
>Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
>Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
>directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
>tribal system. Once a proper elected system is in place, with Tribunes of
>the Plebs in place, then any such "power grab" as Germanicus is speaking
>about would be impossible. Besides if such an attempt were made, people
>would leave and there would be no Nova Roma.
>
>This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
>the elections to be carried out on time. In the New Year, with a full
>elected system in place, the Comitiae can be formed legally and the
>Constitution amended to prevent this from happening again.
>
>> By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting
itself up
>> as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
be
>> upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same
philosophy to
>> any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
not
>> have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>
>And if that happened people would vote with their feet and leave. There is
>no power grab going on here for we would be shooting ourselves in the foot
>by trying something such as you are suggesting. Nova Roma is voluntary and
>people would not choose to stay in an organization where its government
>tried such a coup.
>
>> I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the
bounds of
>> our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>> Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections.
>
>
>Without speakers of the centuries? How would the Comitia Plebis be
>convened or would we just do without Tribunes of the Plebs? I don't think
>we can do without the Tribunes of the Plebs. The only way to elect them
>according to the Constitution is by convening the Comitia Plebis.
>
>> Don't usurp the
>> Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>> transfer of power.
>
>
>Elections are being held on time. This first year was an extraordinary
>year and voting directly is an extraordinary measure. The only way to do
>that was by passing a Senatus Consultum to allow that. That will never
>happen again as the Constitution will be amended in the coming year to
>prevent that from happening again. One of the legally formed comitiae
>will agree to amend the Constitution (any comitia can do it, not just the
>Comitia Centuriatia). This is a one time measure being done in *good
>faith* and not a way to usurp power. You are doing Nova Roma no good by
>such alarmism.
>
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius, Praetor Urbanus, Senator
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Little Sister
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:48:59 -0500 (EST)

I have read your account of your situation with your ex-husband and the
trials that you are undergoing through no fault of your own. I have
been most interested in the advice provided to you by several of the
ladies of Nova Roma.

I have read all with care and I wish to comfort you with the statement
that I agree essentially with all the ladie's comments.

I especially agree with those ideas that as long as you act the part of
a rug, then their will always be that one ignorant person who will wipe
his feet. You MUST realize that you are as good as anyone else and
better than most! The horrendous idea of your traveling from Minnesota
to California is not only rediculous, but insulting as well. I would
not consider letting my wife do anything so irresponsible even were she
so dotty as to suggest it, which thank god she is not!

Little Sister, into your care have the gods thrust this child, and the
one on the way as well. As you have seen, your faith has rewarded you
with that which the gods have intended for you. The honor of what has
been chosen as your responsibilities should be taken as a sign of
approval, by your faith, and also as a sign that your decisions and your
abilities are recognized as being paramount in the lives of your
children.

Take the advice of those who were kind enough to give specific advice.
Roll it around in YOUR head, and then make YOUR decisions, and I
guarantee that you will be much happier and much more content than in
the past. There are those who believe (obviously I am one) that making
my own decisions, right or wrong, is much more satisfying than relying
on others who do not know the whole story (and nobody but you will ever
know the WHOLE story).

In closing, my dear, listen to your friends, ask for help as you have
done, consider the options at your liesure, and make your decisions,
then take comfort that they are YOUR decisions, and that you have the
backing of your faith, and the bestwishes of your friends. Believe me,
little sister, there are those in my world who do not have any of the
above. They are already dead, but they don't realize it yet. You on
the other hand have much of which is the good life, and through the dint
of hard work and your own good common sense, you will gain more.

All the Best;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: My language is my country
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:42:29 -0500

T. Horatius Atticus wrote:

> From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
>
> Secundo: (Coming to the point) It is not easy for me to write in
> English, and even if it were, English is a foreign language for me. It is
> not very pleasant for a foreigner to communicate with native speakers. Of
> course you are in general very polite and woudn't be able to make fun of a
> syntax or an orthographic error, but it doesn't solve the problem. Some
> novaromani from Brasil aren't so involved in NR as they should because of
> the language problem. It isn't funny for somebody that speaks quite
> correctly his own language, to speak imperfectly another language UNLESS
> everybody is in the latter situation.

We don't mind your English. Some of us natives don't even write it that well.
Please don't let that hold you back from expressing your opinion.

> Quarto: (To the Consuls to be) The candidates Palladius and Claudia
> Iuliana include in their platform (not as promisses, well understood) ideas
> such as a phisical homeland for NR. Well, what language would we be speaking
> in our homeland? English??? Well, we could drink Coke and play baseball as
> well (I am very respectfully trying to exercise the north american irony).
> I. e.: it is part of my dreams that our community speak Latin and before we
> have a country, we must have a language.

This is a VERY good point! Where would the homeland be and in what language? I'm
all for Latin as a Nova Roma language, as soon as we all have the time to learn
it. I think this is a wonderful goal, but one that we will achieve slowly. Nova
Roma Latin language classes would be a great idea!

Thank you for your intelligent observations!

Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: reply to Candidate Palladius
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:57:14 -0500 (EST)

On Fr--------3 Nov 1998 m--------oon@-------- wrote:

> From: m--------oon@--------

> D. Iunius Palladius wrote:
>
> > From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 m--------oon@-------- wrote:
> >
> > > From: m--------oon@--------

> > Of the other goals you mentioned, the one dearest to the hearts of many,
> > myself and Cincinnatus included, is a physical capitol or center for Nova
> > Roma. It will also be the most difficult to attain. I would suggest
> > establishing a fund, separate from the treasury, that would start to build
> > up the capital necessary for what will be an expensive goal to achieve.
> >
>
> Regardless of the outcome of the elections, Palladius, I think we're
> pretty
> much in accord for Nova Roma's future. (Obviously, this isn't the
> Clinton/Dole
> debates, is it?)

Not at all, I think that the visions expressed here are not so far apart.

> A very, very good idea for Nova Roma Publications, and
> one that
> I feel sure we can bring off. Not only would it build up our Treasury,
> but it
> would build our reputation -- an even more important factor than the
> Treasury! I
> believe we can publish as well as promote, and there are many options
> for us to
> get this done.
> > The only question I have regarding your campaign and your vision for
> Nova Roma
> is the increase in population, and even then, I don't disagree with the
> goal,
> merely the method and timing. Before we can grow too much bigger, I'd
> like to
> see more of the current population engaged in active involvement with
> Nova Roma.
> This involves putting a structure in place with committees and projects
> (perhaps
> the goals of the Sodalicum proposals?) that will interest various
> segments of
> our population. Thus, we give potential Citizens a more solid reason to
> join us,
> and something concrete and fulfilling to do when they become Citizens. I
> suggest
> that we concentrate on this first, then go whole-hog to increase the
> population!

I think that an organization that does notgrow stagnates. The more new
citizens we have, the more people we will
have who can be involved and the more new ideas we will have flowing into
Nova Roma. There are citizens that have joined within the last week or two
who are contribututing to our nation in interesting ways, such as Primus
Fabius, who lives in Roma herself. Many of you have seen his fascinating
posts on this list and his perspective living in the ancient city itself.
He is part of a growing number of citizens we have in Rome and Italy. He
and others with fresh ideas will continue to join us. My emphasis is on
our *citizens* bringing us new citizens. They know people who will be
assets to our Republic. I do not think such a drive is beyond the realm
of possibility for the next year and such a drive in itself can be a way
of increasing involvement. For example a person may create a Sodalicum
devoted to a particular subject or hobby and then work to bring like
minded people into it, not just from within Nova Roma but outside of it as
well.

This will be my last campaign statement until late Sunday or Monday due to
family circumstances beyond my control which some of you are already
aware of. Have a Good Weekend everybody!

Decius Iunius Palladius, Candidate for Consul

Palladius and Cincinnatus: For Rome, the Mos Maiorum and the Future!

1000 in 2000!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:56:32 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salve Palladius!
>
> >This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
> >the elections to be carried out on time.
> Well, I don't doubt that. But you should have annouced the measure to the
> citizens. The citizens must know what is going on. That's all I ask.
> Sometimes our acts in good faith can be badly interpreted if we hide them.

I agree with you entirely. It has not been announced yet because we are
(or were, I haven't checked today) on a final vote to make it a unanimous
announcement. Once that was completed it would have been announced. This
message from Germanicus jumped the gun as the English expression goes and
I had to respond immediately. I am glad that you know we are not acting on
a desire to usurp power. This whole issue is rather last minute for all of
us unfortunately but we shall get through it as a nation. We ask the
People of New Rome for your trust. The elections will be carried out on
time.

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	R:[novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	Fabio Incutti incutti@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:55:49 +0100

Salvete cives,

I'd like to say a few words about the present matter.
First, i strongly belive that Constitution is the supreme law to respect in any situation, under any circumstance. Otherwise we could say bye to democracy as well.
Therefore, any solution to crisis should be found within the Constitution.

From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------

The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
tribal system. Once a proper elected system is in place, with Tribunes of
the Plebs in place, then any such "power grab" as Germanicus is speaking
about would be impossible. Besides if such an attempt were made, people
would leave and there would be no Nova Roma.

This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
the elections to be carried out on time. In the New Year, with a full
elected system in place, the Comitiae can be formed legally and the
Constitution amended to prevent this from happening again.
If, as the Senate says, there is an emergency situation, our Constitution provides a very good way out: to elect a Dictator.
I think that the Senate has used a power that do not belong to the Senate itself and, doing so, incurred into an error in proceeding.
Better would have been to elect a Dictator, with a term of about 1 month, telling him to adopt the same resolution that the Senate took.
The result would have been (and could still be, if the Senate retires the Consultum and appoint the Dictator) much more respectful of our Constitution.

Valete omnes.
Primus Fabius

Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	"T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:03:09 -0200

T. Horatius Atticus s. d. Gaio Mario

>Salve Arture
>
>Multum doleo sed non potui legere tuam epistulam solas paucas partes eius
>Qualem linguam habes in mente scribens de barbara lingua
>
>>Exatamente. Ainda sou um veleador nesta língua bárbara. :( A entendo,
porém
>>na hora de escrever...

forsitan arturus noster latini usum non habeat quare linguae lusitanae
peritus egomet reddere possum
ego multum doleo te sermonem lusitanum non intellegere
sane anglicam vult pro barbara lingua adulescens
anglii nonne barbari erant
:-)

>>Óhh Roma! :~( Queria tanto ter nascido 3 mil anos atrás!
>
>Si recte intellexi desideras ut natus sis ante MMM annos ut posses vivere
>cive Romano antiquae rei publicae Verumne

Ita vero est

Vale


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	m--------oon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:16:56 -0500

This is in reply to Germanicus' posting on the list, which was long, and I won't
quote it here.

For those of you who don't understand the concept of the Voting Tribes and
Centuries -- and I didn't until recently -- think of it as the U.S. House of
Representatives. Each of us is assigned to voting tribe, like a State. Within our
Tribe, we elect a spokesman or representative to speak for us and vote on the laws
proposed by the Senate. We're also assigned to a Century, where we also choose our
spokesmen. In the old days of Rome, this was because most people could not take
the time needed to hike all the way into Rome itself to keep up with politics --
no sound bites, no TV debates, no Latium-to-Rome shuttle flights -- so they
elected representatives who'd stay in Rome, hang out at the forum, and keep up.
This should sound real familiar to you Americans, particularly.

Right now, there just has not been time to assign everyone to a Tribe and a
Century and let us elect our representatives to vote on laws, etc. So instead of
letting our spokesman vote for us in the matter of changing the law -- because we
don't HAVE any spokemen yet -- the Senate used their Constitional power to allow
us to vote independently in these elections.

I don't see this as a power grab, and I don't see it happening again. Yes, the
Senate could have acted earlier to form the Tribes and Centuries, but let's face
it: we're growing REAL fast and the Senators have jobs and lives outside of Nova
Roma, just like the rest of us. NR's not even a year old. We've had to deal with
heated religious debates, a big influx of new Citizens, the complete resignation
of a Consul, and a lot more. The Senate, like the rest of us, can't do everything
at once, so I have confidence that they're doing the best they can.

I do hope that this latest development won't cause a general panic on the list.
Really, it isn't anything serious. Nova Roma has a considerable number of people
who LOVE the intricacies and Machiavellian maneuvers of Roman politics, and this
is a great example! I, for one, think it's pretty interesting and educational.
Some of us joined for the religion, some for the re-enactments, some for the
history...and some for the wonderfully emotional recreation of the Roman political
world. Beats sitting at home watching the History Channel!

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:45:07 -0000

Salvete omnes!

>Right now, there just has not been time to assign everyone to a Tribe and a
>Century and let us elect our representatives to vote on laws, etc. So
instead >of letting our spokesman vote for us in the matter of changing the
law -- >because we don't HAVE any spokemen yet -- the Senate used their
>Constitional power to allow us to vote independently in these elections.
That's true. That's the best way. But Germanicus also defended it. I'll
forward the letter of Germanicus to you.

>The Senate, like the rest of us, can't do everything
>at once, so I have confidence that they're doing the best they can.
I agree. But sometimes things should be more clear in order to avoid guys
like me playing the cornicen.

>I do hope that this latest development won't cause a general panic on the
list.
It won't. I'm not watching too much television... I know when to stop. And I
know that the Senate could not be acting with *bad faith*. I just would have
preferred the Senate to think a little before calling me lunatic, terrorist
and agent of discord.

>Really, it isn't anything serious. Nova Roma has a considerable number of
>people who LOVE the intricacies and Machiavellian maneuvers of Roman
>politics, and this is a great example!
You can bet that. But above all, I LOVE Nova Roma, and this example will be
soon burried.

Valete omnes!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon@-------- m--------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:25 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: m--------oon@--------
>
>This is in reply to Germanicus' posting on the list, which was long, and I
won't
>quote it here.
>
>
>For those of you who don't understand the concept of the Voting Tribes and
>Centuries -- and I didn't until recently -- think of it as the U.S. House
of
>Representatives. Each of us is assigned to voting tribe, like a State.
Within our
>Tribe, we elect a spokesman or representative to speak for us and vote on
the laws
>proposed by the Senate. We're also assigned to a Century, where we also
choose our
>spokesmen. In the old days of Rome, this was because most people could not
take
>the time needed to hike all the way into Rome itself to keep up with
politics --
>no sound bites, no TV debates, no Latium-to-Rome shuttle flights -- so they
>elected representatives who'd stay in Rome, hang out at the forum, and keep
up.
>This should sound real familiar to you Americans, particularly.
>
>Right now, there just has not been time to assign everyone to a Tribe and a
>Century and let us elect our representatives to vote on laws, etc. So
instead of
>letting our spokesman vote for us in the matter of changing the law --
because we
>don't HAVE any spokemen yet -- the Senate used their Constitional power to
allow
>us to vote independently in these elections.
>
>I don't see this as a power grab, and I don't see it happening again. Yes,
the
>Senate could have acted earlier to form the Tribes and Centuries, but let's
face
>it: we're growing REAL fast and the Senators have jobs and lives outside of
Nova
>Roma, just like the rest of us. NR's not even a year old. We've had to deal
with
>heated religious debates, a big influx of new Citizens, the complete
resignation
>of a Consul, and a lot more. The Senate, like the rest of us, can't do
everything
>at once, so I have confidence that they're doing the best they can.
>
>I do hope that this latest development won't cause a general panic on the
list.
>Really, it isn't anything serious. Nova Roma has a considerable number of
people
>who LOVE the intricacies and Machiavellian maneuvers of Roman politics, and
this
>is a great example! I, for one, think it's pretty interesting and
educational.
>Some of us joined for the religion, some for the re-enactments, some for
the
>history...and some for the wonderfully emotional recreation of the Roman
political
>world. Beats sitting at home watching the History Channel!
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Fw: Nova Roma in Peril?
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:46:22 -0000

As I promised in my last posting...

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 9:46 PM
Subject: Nova Roma in Peril?

>Salve,
>
>I am writing to you this day with a heavy heart. I am for the first time
>genuinely afraid for our nascent Republic. I'm only sending this email to a
>few friends at first, to get your reaction and suggestions. Maybe I'm
>overreacting; it wouldn't be the first time. But I really don't think I am.
>
>I'm not referring to the recent intense discussions about the role of
religion
>in the government. I think such discussions can be healthy, and the fact
that
>they have gone on for so long with few if any hurt feelings says a lot for
us
>all.
>
>I'm referring to a Senatus Consultum which has been voted on and passed as
of
>the 11th of November (why it has not been made public yet, I cannot say,
but I
>can guess). It presents a plan to suspend voting by tribes and centuries
this
>year, to allow for direct elections of magistrates.
>
>The issue came up as I was helping with the technical matters regarding the
>upcoming election. As the Constitution now reads, each century and tribe
must
>elect a speaker, who then votes for the actual candidate for office. It's
>cumbersome, and could easily be rewritten; in fact, I presented the Consuls
>with such a rewrite more than a week ago that could have been voted on by
the
>People, the Constitution amended, and the elections could have gone on
>normally.
>
>Now, here's the catch.
>
>Rather than presenting the subject to the people for a vote, as the
>Constitution prescribes, the Senate has taken it upon themselves to issue
the
>change. Sure, it's temporary. And sure, it'd probably make the elections go
>smoother this year. But that's not my point.
>
>What would happen, in effect, is that the Senate would claim for themselves
>the power to alter, or at least suspend, the Constitution.
>
>I think that setting such a precident is a disasterous idea (and I'm
speaking
>as someone who may very well be a member of the Senate myself). If they can
>make this small change this year, who is to say what they could do next
year?
>Make explicit religious qualifications for office? Nullify the powers of
>magistrates that oppose them? Take away rights held by the people?
>
>The Constitution specifically says that changes to itself must be made by
>laws. Laws passed in the Comitiae. Laws voted on by the people. This
attempted
>power-grab by the Senate has me bothered beyond belief. Not for the
specifics
>of what they wish to do, but for the dangerous precident it would set, were
it
>to be allowed to stand.
>
>And the worst part is, it doesn't NEED to happen this way. There is plenty
of
>time to vote on a Constitutional amendment before the elections.
>
>I hope that we can keep this among ourselves until something of a consensus
>can be reached. If nobody else thinks this is as much of a threat as I do,
>then the last thing I want to do is cause more divisiveness on the email
list.
>Either way, I welcome your thoughts.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder and Citizen
>Paterfamilias of Gens Vedia
>


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	"Merullo" Merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:03:24 -0500

Salvete Amice Graece et alii

>
>You understand portuguese! Isn't it similar to Latin?
>
Well, I think that it may be a bit of an exaggeration to say that I
understand it. Let's see what Arturus Rodriges writes in answer to my post;
if I understand that, I may be able to agree with your assertion to some
extent.

As far as similarity to Latin, it seems to me that the bulk of the
Portuguese vocabulary is derived from Latin, as is the case with other
languages spoken in that geographic area. But the sound! The nasal and
fricative (?) sounds have no equivalents in Italian or Spanish, and those
fricatives (you know, the "sshh" and "ssch" type sounds) sometimes make your
language sound almost Slavic.

Is it true in your experience that many Portuguese native speakers can
understand Spanish?

Please excuse my obsession with the trivia of language.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	m--------oon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:44:02 -0500

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> It won't. I'm not watching too much television... I know when to stop. And I
> know that the Senate could not be acting with *bad faith*. I just would have
> preferred the Senate to think a little before calling me lunatic, terrorist
> and agent of discord.

Graecus, I don't think the *Senate* called you any of this! If anyone did, it's
his/her OWN PERSONAL opinion and not the Senate's or the People's! Don't let it
trouble you.

> >Really, it isn't anything serious. Nova Roma has a considerable number of
> >people who LOVE the intricacies and Machiavellian maneuvers of Roman
> >politics, and this is a great example!
> You can bet that. But above all, I LOVE Nova Roma, and this example will be
> soon burried.

Nova Roma is getting to be more fun by the minute!

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:13:09 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 13:34:28 EST, Decius Iunius writes:

> The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
> it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
> Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
> either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
> have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
> elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
> Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
> Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
> directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
> tribal system.

I would have expected more legal scholarship from someone supposedly.entrusted
to guard our Constitution and enforce our laws.

In order to properly pass a law to change the Constitution, only the Comitia
Centuriata need be convened. Either of our Consuls can do so, as I did several
times in the past.

The Speakers for the Centuries are elected only for the duration of the vote
in question. In the case of a vote on a law, they are elected by their
respective Centuries at the time the vote is called. Voting on laws, such as
those dealing with changes to our Constitution, have nothing whatsoever to do
with the regularly scheduled elections of magistrates in December.

There is plenty of time to hold the vote in the Comitia Centuriata to alter
the Constitution before the magisterial elections. As I am led to understand,
all the members of the Senate were presented with the necessary changes to
make voting within the tribes and centuries direct more than a week ago. But,
rather than act on those changes, within the Constitutional framework as it
now stands, the Senate decided to sieze a power for itself that it does not
and should not have.

And even if this is not an intentional attempt by the Senate to grab power
over the Constitution, the end result is the same. And I think our Republic
cannot stand if that power is taken by the Senate, rather than remaining in
the hands of the Citizens, where it belongs.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:15:13 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 13:37:14 EST, you write:

> If we did follow it to the letter in this instance, the Comitia Plebis
> would not be convened and Tribunes of the Plebs would not be elected. I
> want to see elected Tribunes of the Plebs and I know you do.

This is another straw man. It is an issue which was discussed and (I had
thought) dealt with while I was still in the Senate.

Before the elections are held, the Senate has the power to appoint a Tribune
of the Plebs. The Senate must simply do so the day before the elections. That
interim Tribune (who was to have been Metellus, before he ascended to take my
place as Consul) can then convene the Comitia Plebis to hold its elections.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Merullo" Merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:09:33 -0500

Maybe it should be

Vale Res Publica Ave Imperator

But actually no, if the Republic is toppled, there wont be any Octavian to
pick up the pieces this time. Come on folks, let's not blow it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:20 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>P.S. Ave Res Publica! Ave Roma!
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:51 PM
>Subject: [novaroma] Elections and the Constitution
>
>
>>From: JoeBloch@--------
>>
>>Salvete,
>>
>>As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
>undertaken
>>by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
>Senate
>>voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
>>elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined
by
>>the Constitution.
>>
>>In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter
or
>>suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>>
>>I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The
Constitution,
>as
>>our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
>any
>>Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
>provisions
>>can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>>
>>By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself
>up
>>as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
>be
>>upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy
>to
>>any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
>not
>>have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>>
>>I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
>of
>>our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>>Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
>>Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>>transfer of power.
>>
>>Valete,
>>
>>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>>Co-Founder, Citizen
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	procedural question was Elections and the Constitution
From:	"Merullo" Merullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:21:21 -0500

Salvete Deci Iuni et alii

Thank you for your message. It was a relief. I actually was going to ask
you whether you had considered such a Senatus Consultum.

But, there is one point about which I am curious:

>alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
>it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
>Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
>either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
>have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
>elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the

Couldn't Iulianus or Metellus have convened the Comitia Centuriata? I could
have sworn that convening the Comitia Centuriata was listed under the
consular powers in the NR constitution. Actually, dont even bother trusting
my memory: look at Article III-2-6:

"summon the Comitia Tributa and Comitia Centuriata and put forth matters for
the people to vote upon."

In light of this consular power, why didn't one of the sitting consuls call
the Comitia Centuriata? I think that a good answer to this question would
help to allay any fears that someone is riding roughshod over the
constitution.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:24:14 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 14:24:58 EST, Flavia Claudia writes:

> For those of you who don't understand the concept of the Voting Tribes and
> Centuries -- and I didn't until recently -- think of it as the U.S. House
of
> Representatives. Each of us is assigned to voting tribe, like a State.
> Within our
> Tribe, we elect a spokesman or representative to speak for us and vote on
> the laws
> proposed by the Senate. We're also assigned to a Century, where we also
> choose our
> spokesmen. In the old days of Rome, this was because most people could not
> take
> the time needed to hike all the way into Rome itself to keep up with
> politics --
> no sound bites, no TV debates, no Latium-to-Rome shuttle flights -- so they
> elected representatives who'd stay in Rome, hang out at the forum, and keep
> up.
> This should sound real familiar to you Americans, particularly.

Actually, this isn't the case. Only the Speakers for the tribes of one of the
three Assemblies-- the Comitia Populi-- are permanently elected. The speakers
for the plebian tribes, and the centuries of the third Assembly, are only
elected for the duration of the vote in question. Every individual is still
required and expected to vote in each and every election, and on each and
every law.

The point is, each tribe votes as a unit, and each century votes as a unit.
The Speakers were intended merely to voice that vote.

> Right now, there just has not been time to assign everyone to a Tribe and a
> Century and let us elect our representatives to vote on laws, etc. So
> instead of
> letting our spokesman vote for us in the matter of changing the law --
> because we
> don't HAVE any spokemen yet -- the Senate used their Constitional power to
> allow
> us to vote independently in these elections.

Once again, this is incorrect.

A) It would take a grand total of five minutes on a spreadsheet to assign
everyone to a tribe and century.

B) Each speaker for the centuries and tribes would have to be re-elected each
election anyway. Each election is going to be a vote for speakers under the
current system; this election would be no different, and no harder to manage.

C) The Senate does *NOT* have the power to change the Constitution. Even for a
good cause. Even for a temporary term. That can only be done by a vote of the
Comitia Centuriata, which must then be ratified by the Senate. But without a
law to ratify, there is nothing the Senate can do to usurp the power of the
Constitution.

> I don't see this as a power grab, and I don't see it happening again. Yes,
> the
> Senate could have acted earlier to form the Tribes and Centuries, but let's
> face
> it: we're growing REAL fast and the Senators have jobs and lives outside of
> Nova
> Roma, just like the rest of us. NR's not even a year old. We've had to deal
> with
> heated religious debates, a big influx of new Citizens, the complete
> resignation
> of a Consul, and a lot more. The Senate, like the rest of us, can't do
> everything
> at once, so I have confidence that they're doing the best they can.

I hereby offer ten minutes of my life to assign people to tribes and centuries
(which, I might point out, is the job not of the Senate, but the Censors). Let
me just fire up Excel, sort people in the database by gens name, and rattle
down some numbers. There. Done!

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:41:32 -0800

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:50 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>Salvete,
>
>As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
undertaken
>by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
Senate
>voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
>elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined by
>the Constitution.
>
>In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter or
>suspend parts of the Constitution at will.

As I explaind to you in the Taverna Germaincus..who can say what law is more
powerful, we do not have a supremacy Clause in our Constitution..becuase we
do not have it...the Supreme law of the land is in doubt...Therefore, the
Seante (as teh only standing body of govenrment) has legislative perogrative
until the Tirbes and Comita are established. Besides...doesnt this mean
that the laws you passed are now not valid? since you used the same process
to pass them?

>I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The Constitution,
as
>our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
any
>Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
provisions
>can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.

As for establsihing a precedent..that is not a valid arguement since the
Supremacy of the Constitutin is in doubt. Any legal professional will tell
you that you need a Supremacy Clause to strenghen and define the importance
of Laws. Who can say what law is MORE important..we dont have a
judicary...therefore legal interpation will vary..that is the one flaw of a
written Constitution..Germanicus.

>By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself
up
>as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
be
>upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy
to
>any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
not
>have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.

No its not..dont be so alarmist..the Precedent ceases to be a precedent when
the Constitution is corrected..look at Stare Decises...it changes as the
laws are changed and as the Constitution is revised to account for those
changes! NR is not going ot have a governmental revolution..thats not
happening..the Senate is using its authority to promote NR and to have
elections...not hoarding power for itself. The Senate cannot decree not to
have elections...once the Supremacy clause is inserted in the
Constituion....

>I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
of
>our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
>Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>transfer of power.

I hereby urge the Seante to move forward with having the elections..and then
inserting a supremacy clause in the Constitituiton...that way this "threat"
as Germanicus calls it can no longer be anticipated! Germancius forgot this
clause when he wrote the Constiutiton..now he is using the legal maneuver to
delay our elections. Lets not give in to fear..lets rise above it and
correct our Constitution!

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:43:27 -0800

Graecus, the Constitution is being obeyed..However, the Constituiton's
supremacy is in doubt and we dont have a Judicial body to interpret which is
stronger..the Constitution or the Senatus Consulta...since that is not in
the Constitution the Supremacy of the Constitution is in doubt. Therefore
the Senate is within the bounds of the Constitution.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 10:05 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>Salvete!
>
>Senate of Rome, obey to the Constitution!!!! I needn't say more as I've
>already said everything in previous emails, which some of you accused to be
>from a lunatic or terrorist.
>
>Valete!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:51 PM
>Subject: [novaroma] Elections and the Constitution
>
>
>>From: JoeBloch@--------
>>
>>Salvete,
>>
>>As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
>undertaken
>>by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
>Senate
>>voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next month's
>>elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined
by
>>the Constitution.
>>
>>In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter
or
>>suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>>
>>I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The
Constitution,
>as
>>our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
>any
>>Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
>provisions
>>can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>>
>>By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting itself
>up
>>as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this precident
>be
>>upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same philosophy
>to
>>any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
>not
>>have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>>
>>I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
>of
>>our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>>Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
>>Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>>transfer of power.
>>
>>Valete,
>>
>>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>>Co-Founder, Citizen
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:45:26 -0800

Let see about this..shall we..the Senatus Consulta was PASSED on 11/11/98,
and its only 11/13/98. dont you think that its going ot be up on the site
today? Chill out..we dont have a daily newspaper to keep us reported on
daily events do we?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo amg@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 10:41 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>Salve Palladius!
>
>>This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
>>the elections to be carried out on time.
>Well, I don't doubt that. But you should have annouced the measure to the
>citizens. The citizens must know what is going on. That's all I ask.
>Sometimes our acts in good faith can be badly interpreted if we hide them.
>
>Ave Roma!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 6:34 PM
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution
>
>
>>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 JoeBloch@-------- wrote:
>>
>>> From: JoeBloch@--------
>>>
>>> Salvete,
>>>
>>> As some of you may know, I have recently become aware of a decision
>undertaken
>>> by the Senate which has caused me grave concern. Earlier this week, the
>Senate
>>> voted on a Senatus Consultum to alter the mechanisms by which next
>month's
>>> elections will take place. These are mechanisms that are clearly defined
>by
>>> the Constitution.
>>>
>>> In effect, the Senate has decided to claim for itself the right to alter
>or
>>> suspend parts of the Constitution at will.
>>>
>>> I think this is an enormously dangerous precident to set. The
>Constitution, as
>>> our founding document, must not be subject to the whims of the Senate or
>any
>>> Magistrate. The Constitution itself sets forth the _only_ way its
>provisions
>>> can be changed: by a law voted into effect by the Comitia Centuriata.
>>
>>With all due respect to our Co-Founder, Germanicus, this is nothing but
>>alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
>>it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
>>Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
>>either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
>>have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
>>elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
>>Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
>>Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
>>directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
>>tribal system. Once a proper elected system is in place, with Tribunes of
>>the Plebs in place, then any such "power grab" as Germanicus is speaking
>>about would be impossible. Besides if such an attempt were made, people
>>would leave and there would be no Nova Roma.
>>
>>This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
>>the elections to be carried out on time. In the New Year, with a full
>>elected system in place, the Comitiae can be formed legally and the
>>Constitution amended to prevent this from happening again.
>>
>>> By attempting to circumvent this requirement, the Senate is setting
>itself up
>>> as the overriding authority over Nova Roma. Indeed, should this
precident
>be
>>> upheld, there is nothing to prevent them from applying the same
>philosophy to
>>> any part of the Constitution. Why, should the Senate decree it, we might
>not
>>> have elections at all. Farewell Republic, hello Oligarchy.
>>
>>And if that happened people would vote with their feet and leave. There is
>>no power grab going on here for we would be shooting ourselves in the foot
>>by trying something such as you are suggesting. Nova Roma is voluntary and
>>people would not choose to stay in an organization where its government
>>tried such a coup.
>>
>>> I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the
>bounds of
>>> our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
>>> Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections.
>>
>>
>>Without speakers of the centuries? How would the Comitia Plebis be
>>convened or would we just do without Tribunes of the Plebs? I don't think
>>we can do without the Tribunes of the Plebs. The only way to elect them
>>according to the Constitution is by convening the Comitia Plebis.
>>
>>> Don't usurp the
>>> Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
>>> transfer of power.
>>
>>
>>Elections are being held on time. This first year was an extraordinary
>>year and voting directly is an extraordinary measure. The only way to do
>>that was by passing a Senatus Consultum to allow that. That will never
>>happen again as the Constitution will be amended in the coming year to
>>prevent that from happening again. One of the legally formed comitiae
>>will agree to amend the Constitution (any comitia can do it, not just the
>>Comitia Centuriatia). This is a one time measure being done in *good
>>faith* and not a way to usurp power. You are doing Nova Roma no good by
>>such alarmism.
>>
>>
>>Decius Iunius Palladius, Praetor Urbanus, Senator
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>>
>> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>>
>> Seneca
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
>> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>>
>> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
>> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: R:[novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:48:23 -0800

First we are not a democracy..any implications of such woudl be completey
false. Second..that is in doubt...regarding the Supremacy of the
Constitution...if it doesnt say it..then how do you come to your
conclusion...Look at anyother Living Constituiton, they all include a
Supremacy Clasue (in the US Constitution its Article VI Section 2) It is
absolutly essental that it be included!. Otherwise its in doubt and we do
not have a Judical body to interpret that!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
Fro--------abio Incutti incutti@--------
To: '<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>' <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 11:06 AM
Subject: [novaroma] R:[novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

Salvete cives,

I'd like to say a few words about the present matter.
First, i strongly belive that Constitution is the supreme law to respect in
any situation, under any circumstance. Otherwise we could say bye to
democracy as well.
Therefore, any solution to crisis should be found within the Constitution.

From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------

The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. There is no
Tribune of the Plebs to Convene the Comitia Plebis. In order to convene
either the Comitia Populi or the Comitia Centuriatia there would first
have to be elections within each tribe and century for speakers. The
elections for candidates start from the 15th of this month through the
Ides of December. Considering that it is impossible to properly form the
Comitiae, a Senatus Consultum has been passed for the people to vote
directly for their candidates this *one* time without the use of the
tribal system. Once a proper elected system is in place, with Tribunes of
the Plebs in place, then any such "power grab" as Germanicus is speaking
about would be impossible. Besides if such an attempt were made, people
would leave and there would be no Nova Roma.

This Senatus Consultum was done in *good faith* by the Senate to permit
the elections to be carried out on time. In the New Year, with a full
elected system in place, the Comitiae can be formed legally and the
Constitution amended to prevent this from happening again.
If, as the Senate says, there is an emergency situation, our Constitution
provides a very good way out: to elect a Dictator.
I think that the Senate has used a power that do not belong to the Senate
itself and, doing so, incurred into an error in proceeding.
Better would have been to elect a Dictator, with a term of about 1 month,
telling him to adopt the same resolution that the Senate took.
The result would have been (and could still be, if the Senate retires the
Consultum and appoint the Dictator) much more respectful of our
Constitution.

Valete omnes.
Primus Fabius

Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit


Subject:	Re: rei gerundae causa
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:01:19 EST

If the way this system is to work, the division of citizens into tribes and
centuries, why was this never done? I can't believe that this important point
was over looked. And why centuries? We are not forced to serve in the
legiones which why the century system was implemented. We hardly have the
population of two centuries let alone 1,000.

In short the Senate should have the Censors make the necessary appointments by
the end of this week. With a population of about 150, this can't be that
hard.

Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: rei gerundae causa
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:58:51 -0800

Would you care to answer that Germanicus?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis

-----Original Message-----
From: SFP55@-------- SFP55@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:03 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: rei gerundae causa

>From: SFP55@--------
>
>If the way this system is to work, the division of citizens into tribes and
>centuries, why was this never done? I can't believe that this important
point
>was over looked. And why centuries? We are not forced to serve in the
>legiones which why the century system was implemented. We hardly have the
>population of two centuries let alone 1,000.
>
>In short the Senate should have the Censors make the necessary appointments
by
>the end of this week. With a population of about 150, this can't be that
>hard.
>
>Q. Fabius
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:05:40 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 15:48:20 EST, you write:

> As I explaind to you in the Taverna Germaincus..who can say what law is more
> powerful, we do not have a supremacy Clause in our Constitution..becuase we
> do not have it...the Supreme law of the land is in doubt...Therefore, the
> Seante (as teh only standing body of govenrment) has legislative
perogrative
> until the Tirbes and Comita are established. Besides...doesnt this mean
> that the laws you passed are now not valid? since you used the same process
> to pass them?

And as I explained to you, it is self-evident that the Constitution is the
Supreme Law of the Land. The inferior position of Senatus Consultae to laws
passed by the Comitiae is explicitly stated in the Constitution.

But think about this. Even if there is some loophole (which I still dispute)
about some missing clause that you think should be there, wouldn't the thing
to do be to PUT ONE IN??? Rather than use these schuyster-like tactics, and
abuse it? I still don't think it is necessary-- any child could tell you that
the Constitution must outrank any other legal maneuver in a nation of laws
such as we have. But if it's so all-fired precious to you, then let's put it
in. Now.

When I proposed laws and they were passed by the Comitia Centuriata, each
Century consisted of only one person. Each person was, therefore, the de facto
speaker for their Century. Each Century voted for the only speaker they could
have; the only member of that century. But now the situation is very very
different. There will be an average of 1.7 people per century. Thus, Speakers
would have to be elected.

But that's all immaterial. Because we can do away with the Speakers entirely.
Keep the tribes, keep the Centuries. But have the voting within them be
direct. We will have (presumably) election officers capable of counting the
votes by century and tribe. Why do we need a speaker to voice that vote?

That's what I proposed more than a week ago. A Constitutional change to make
the voting within tribes and centuries direct. The majority within each tribe
or century carries the day. Simple. Effective.

And LEGAL, if it's done by the passage of a law within the Comitia Centuriata,
not by Senatus Consultum.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:09:49 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 15:49:45 EST, you write:

> Graecus, the Constitution is being obeyed..However, the Constituiton's
> supremacy is in doubt and we dont have a Judicial body to interpret which
is
> stronger..the Constitution or the Senatus Consulta...since that is not in
> the Constitution the Supremacy of the Constitution is in doubt. Therefore
> the Senate is within the bounds of the Constitution.

You are the only person who doubts the Constitution's supremacy. Any child
knows that the Founding Document has supremacy over what comes later.

But if not, then, hey? Why worry? Heck, why bother with laws at all? Why
bother with the Constitution?

Let's stop playing at being a Republic and just call ourselves an Oligarchy.
Because that's what you're wanting, Sulla.

You say we need some clause? Fine, put it in. But with or without it, we all
know the Constitution must be the supreme law of the land.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: R:[novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:15:33 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 15:54:37 EST, you write:

> Second..that is in doubt...regarding the Supremacy of the
> Constitution...if it doesnt say it..then how do you come to your
> conclusion...

You are the only one doubting this.

I.IV states: "This Constitution may be altered by law passed by one of the
comitia; such alterations to this Constitution must be ratified by a vote of
two-thirds of the entire Senate before it shall take effect."

So, a law is required to change the Constitution. And how does a Senatus
Consultum become a law? V.V. states:

"There shall be no limit on the issues upon which a Senatus Consultum may be
issued, and they may be regarded as the official statements of the policies of
Nova Roma, but not as law, until and unless they are ratified as such by one
of the three comitia."

So a Senatus Consultum isn't a law until it goes through one of the three
Comitia. So, where does that leave us?

1) You need a law to change the Constitution.
2) A Senatus Consultum doesn't have the force of law on its own.
3) You can't change the Constitution with a Senatus Consultum.

Seems fairly simple. Even someone not in law school can figure that one out.
(Indeed, it seems that ONLY someone not in law school can...)

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Octavian?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:13:09 -0500

Merullus, I'm sorry, but I deleted your post as I was trying to reply to
it, so it isn't quoted here.

You made the point that there was no Octavian around to pick up the
pieces if the Republic crumbles.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. There's always a potential dictator with
the purple in mind. Don't discount the possibility of a future Augustus
or Tiberius in the crowd. (As a Claudian with declared political
ambitions, I should know 'em when I see 'em! Although I should hope that
a Republic wouldn't let me or anyone else get that far.)

I question this discussion coming up just at the time when both
Cincinnatus and Palladius are trying to deal with family tragedies which
prevent their being able to fully answer these charges of "usurping
power." Certainly Palladius tried to give us an answer, but he can't be
constantly online right now. And certainly I agree that the Senate could
have acted in a different way. But we DO have the elections coming up
and we ARE able to vote.

Does Germanicus have the best interest of Nova Roma at heart? I'm sure
he took any opposition of his return to the Senate as a rebuff, but it
wasn't meant that way. There were differing opinions within NR, but it
remains that anyone taking the drastic step of resigning a Citizenship
(not merely the office of Consul which took a great deal of time, and is
understandable) should accept the fact that he must start from the same
place as the other Citizens. This is not a punishment, but a desire to
treat all Citizens equally, without favor. His contributions have been
enormous, that is not to be discounted. But many of you -- including the
current Senate, especially the ones who stepped in to fill the gap after
Germanicus resigned -- have also contributed greatly to Nova Roma. Have
your efforts been worth less than his? To be a Citizen is certainly not
a step down, merely a change. We're all proud to be Citizens, I should
hope.

But Germanicus himself has referred in his first post to his desire to
return to the Senate. Apparently he does not want it to be the same
Senate who refused to re-instate him -- which I suppose is also only
human and understandable. And so we have this public attempt to
undermine the Senate and the candidates for Consul under the guise of a
technical constitutional argument. Coming right at a time when we were
to have our first elections, this is very bad timing -- as much of a
disgrace as he has accused the Senate of instigating. Anything that the
Senate does now is temporary, as it is all about to change with the
elections. If Germanicus wishes to return to the Senate, let him run for
office. If he says that he is prevented from doing so, I recall no law
passed that prohibited him. If he consented not to run because he
hesitated to cause a rift in Nova Roma...well, I think that his present
actions speak for themselves.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: rei gerundae causa
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:21:03 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 16:04:40 EST, the aptly-named Sulla writes:

> Would you care to answer that Germanicus?
>

Which? Why the Centuries and tribes weren't assigned from the beginning? Or
why it hasn't been done since my absence?

To the first, because we didn't think it was necessary. As long as the Comitia
Centuriata was the only Assembly doing any voting, and as long as the
population remained under the threshold of 118 (after which point there would
be more than one person in at least SOME of the centuries), the point was
moot. Since it would take no more than a few minutes to assign the actual
Century and Tribe numbers, it was felt that it could wait until the elections
were a little closer.

To the second, I couldn't say. Quintus is right; it's not that hard, and the
Censors should be able to do it in mere minutes.

There's still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus

PS: Next time, try to give me more than 3 minutes before bugging me for an
answer, huh, Sulla?


Subject:	Re: My language is my country
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:06:43 -0600

On Fr--------3 Nov 1998 13:42:29 -0500 m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

>>Nova Roma Latin language classes would be a great idea!
>
>
>Flavia Claudia
>

I would LOVE that!! When it's all set up, let me know!!

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: My language is my country
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:20:36 -0500

Amethyst C Light wrote:

> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
>
> On Fr--------3 Nov 1998 13:42:29 -0500 m--------oon@-------- wr--------:
>
> >>Nova Roma Latin language classes would be a great idea!
> >
> >
> >Flavia Claudia
> >
>
> I would LOVE that!! When it's all set up, let me know!!

Are you kidding? We can't even seem to get to the elections! ;-)
Politics. You gotta love it.

-- FC


Subject:	Re: anger and Roman religion
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:40:18 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 07:05:04 EST, you write:

<< should we choose a God or Goddess as
patron/matron of the list, to help us turn that passion into productive
energy for the advancement of Nova Roma? >>

This is a good idea. I would suggest a God and a Goddess...let's keep
balance. Perhaps Mercurius and Minerva. The God of Communication and the
Goddess of Wisdom and Understanding....

--Dexippus
Augur


Subject:	Re: My language is my country
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:42:06 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 16:29:08 EST, you write:

> From: m--------oon@--------
>
>
>
> Amethyst C Light wrote:
>
> > From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethyst C Light)
> >
> > On Fr--------3 Nov 1998 13:42:29 -0500 m--------oon@-------- wr--------:
> >
> > >>Nova Roma Latin language classes would be a great idea!
> > >
> > >
> > >Flavia Claudia
> > >
> >
> > I would LOVE that!! When it's all set up, let me know!!
>
> Are you kidding? We can't even seem to get to the elections! ;-)
> Politics. You gotta love it.
>
> -- FC

Actually, at one point, we were negotiating with a place that does on-line
Latin classes. They wouldn't give our Citizens so much as a 5% tuition break
to promote their wares on our web site, so it kind of broke down. I think an
on-line Latin course would be a terrific idea. Heck, even if it was just a
non-interactive thing that people could download, that'd be terrific.

We've got more than a few Latin scholars in our ranks. How 'bout it?

(Also, I wonder how much effort would be involved in setting up a Latin-
English dictionary? A translating-program in java would be even better, but
even a simple on-line dictionary would be of immense value, and I'm sure we'd
see a LOT of people involved in Classical Studies using it, if it was a
quality piece of work.)

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Octavian?
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:38:36 EST

Salvete omnes,

Flavia's post is so offensive, mean-spirited, and petty that it doesn't
deserve any response, save to say that I make these objections out of a love
for Nova Roma. As she pointed out, I am now just another Citizen, and I'm
exercising my right of free speech the same as any other Citizen. If there are
any malicious motives present, they're on her end.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: My language is my country
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:47:26 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 12:43:11 EST, you write:

<< Well, what language would we be speaking
in our homeland? English??? Well, we could drink Coke and play baseball as
well >>

I vote for Valley-Girl as the official Language of Nova Roma! And let's drink
Chardonnay and play Majong!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:50:55 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 13:34:30 EST, you write:

<< With all due respect to our Co-Founder, Germanicus, this is nothing but
alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. >>

Why wasn't this made public? Why wasn't a memo distributed explaining the
action?

-Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:49:11 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 12:50:43 EST, you write:

<< I hereby urge the Senate to abandon this plan and remain within the bounds
of
our Constitution. There is more than enough time to call the Comitia
Centuriata to vote prior to next months elections. Don't usurp the
Constitution on the eve of its greatest triumph; the orderly and legal
transfer of power. >>

I second that motion! WE MUST ALL ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION AS IT IS SET
FORTH. No one...not the Senate...not the Pontiffs...not former
Magistrates...should be "above" the law!

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus


Subject:	Official Beverage (was Re: [novaroma] Re: My language is my country)
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:54:17 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 16:51:14 EST, you write:

> I vote for Valley-Girl as the official Language of Nova Roma! And let's
> drink
> Chardonnay and play Majong!

Welllll I'd probably hold out for Latin rather than Valley-Girl (although
Klingon has some appeal...).

Now as far as the Official Beverage of Nova Roma, I vote for mead. They had it
in ancient Rome, and it's beyond question the Ambrosia that the ancient
Skalds, er, Poets, sang of.

Or Coors. I'm easy that way. : )

Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:55:13 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 15:14:53 EST, you write:

<< And even if this is not an intentional attempt by the Senate to grab power
over the Constitution, the end result is the same. And I think our Republic
cannot stand if that power is taken by the Senate, rather than remaining in
the hands of the Citizens, where it belongs.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so!
>>

I have faith that the Senate is working in the best interest of the people.
However, I would tend to agree that this should have been made public and that
a democratic solution should be considered.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Octavian?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:00:38 -0500

JoeBloch@-------- wrote:

> From: JoeBloch@--------
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Flavia's post is so offensive, mean-spirited, and petty that it doesn't
> deserve any response, save to say that I make these objections out of a love
> for Nova Roma. As she pointed out, I am now just another Citizen, and I'm
> exercising my right of free speech the same as any other Citizen. If there are
> any malicious motives present, they're on her end.
>

Geeze, how come any time we disagree with this guy, we're offensive, mean-spirited
and petty, but he can accuse the Senators of wrong-doing and power-grabbing?

I guess it DID deserve a response, huh?

Is it getting hot in here? Where are those slaves with the peacock feather fans?

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:03:39 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:

> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-11-13 13:34:30 EST, you write:
>
> << With all due respect to our Co-Founder, Germanicus, this is nothing but
> alarmism. The reason a Senatus Consultum was passed to do this is because
> it is impossible to form the various comitiae at this time. >>
>
> Why wasn't this made public? Why wasn't a memo distributed explaining the
> action?
>

Dex, I think it was explained that it didn't even come up for a vote until
today, and was originally proposed on the 11th. Germanicus just jumped in
before the Senate had a chance to post.

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	Re: Octavian?
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:13:17 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 17:11:02 EST, you write:

> Geeze, how come any time we disagree with this guy, we're offensive, mean-
> spirited
> and petty, but he can accuse the Senators of wrong-doing and power-
grabbing?
>

No, not "we". Just "thee". Everyone else speaks to issues. You malign
individuals. Therein lies the difference.

Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:14:54 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 17:12:32 EST, you write:

> Dex, I think it was explained that it didn't even come up for a vote until
> today, and was originally proposed on the 11th. Germanicus just jumped in
> before the Senate had a chance to post.
>

Actually, Flavia, that is incorrect. The deciding third vote was cast on the
11th. At that point, it passed. They were merely waiting to announce it until
it was unanimous.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Official Beverage (was Re: [novaroma] Re: My language is my country)
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:06:11 -0500


Subject:	Re: Official Beverage (was Re: [novaroma] Re: My language is m...
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:11:41 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 18:05:53 EST, you write:

> The Official Game is no doubt the one in which the mallet-wielding
> player must mercilessly batter a gopher randomly popping out of the
> holes in a box. If it isn't, then I suggest it be, since it's not
> only great for relieving stress but also quite demonstrative of NR
> politics.

Surely gladiatorial games aren't ruled out...

Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Official Beverage (was Re: [novaroma] Re: My language is m...
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:25:51 -0600

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:11:41 EST JoeBloch@-------- writes:
>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 18:05:53 EST, you write:
>
>> The Official Game is no doubt the one in which the mallet-wielding
>> player must mercilessly batter a gopher randomly popping out of
>the
>> holes in a box. If it isn't, then I suggest it be, since it's not
>> only great for relieving stress but also quite demonstrative of NR
>> politics.
>
>Surely gladiatorial games aren't ruled out...
>
>Germanicus
>

OOOOOOOOOO!!!! Can I suggest a certain 2 non-fathers to play with the
Nova Roman Lions????????

MEOW-MEOW HISS-HISS!!!

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
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Subject:	Re: Official Beverage (was Re: [novaroma] Re: My language is m...
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:30:26 -0500


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:12:20 -0800

-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:07 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 15:48:20 EST, you write:
>
>> As I explaind to you in the Taverna Germaincus..who can say what law is
more
>> powerful, we do not have a supremacy Clause in our Constitution..becuase
we
>> do not have it...the Supreme law of the land is in doubt...Therefore,
the
>> Seante (as teh only standing body of govenrment) has legislative
>perogrative
>> until the Tirbes and Comita are established. Besides...doesnt this mean
>> that the laws you passed are now not valid? since you used the same
process
>> to pass them?
>
>And as I explained to you, it is self-evident that the Constitution is the
>Supreme Law of the Land. The inferior position of Senatus Consultae to laws
>passed by the Comitiae is explicitly stated in the Constitution.

No..that is not the case....or else why would it be in other
Constitutions...just becuase the Constituion is distributing powers does not
mean that those powers are weaker than its own..thats why other
Constitutions..contain them! Look at history..Germanicus..let it be your
judge! and reference the Articles of Confederation and the US
Constitution..for good HISTORICAL examples!

>But think about this. Even if there is some loophole (which I still
dispute)
>about some missing clause that you think should be there, wouldn't the
thing
>to do be to PUT ONE IN??? Rather than use these schuyster-like tactics, and
>abuse it? I still don't think it is necessary-- any child could tell you
that
>the Constitution must outrank any other legal maneuver in a nation of laws
>such as we have. But if it's so all-fired precious to you, then let's put
it
>in. Now.

If its legal..then use it..our plan is to make it illegal..but reform only
comes from expierience...I hope your experience in Roman Politics has taught
you the art of making laws so you can side step them..Becuase that is what
the Ancients did...Germanicus..I am trying to uphold the Mos Maiourm in the
most Roman way..finding a loophole so we can correct this problem! look at
Cicero...executing Roman citiznes on trial during the Catline
Conspiracy..Look at my C.Marius..enlisting the Proleteraiat into the
military..both loopholes in the Mos Maiourm. Yes..I am for using the
loophole..then IMMEDIATELY after the elections..sealing it up forever!

>When I proposed laws and they were passed by the Comitia Centuriata, each
>Century consisted of only one person. Each person was, therefore, the de
facto
>speaker for their Century. Each Century voted for the only speaker they
could
>have; the only member of that century. But now the situation is very very
>different. There will be an average of 1.7 people per century. Thus,
Speakers
>would have to be elected.

How convieninet of an interpretation..but that was not what we were told..we
were told to Vote..based on that reasoning..everyone now is the spokesperson
of their own TRIBE..correct Germanicus?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:19:05 -0800

No..that is not the case..History has proven that wrong...Germanicus..look
at the Articles of Confederation! that was a historical Constitution..but
failed in the face that it did not establish its own supremacy! and I am
saying the same thing about our Constitution..it fails to establish its own
Supremacy!

I want an Oligarchy..no..I am not even in the Senate...whereas you were!
Why would I want a Oligarchy...give me a reason?

Philosophically an Oligarchy is completly unsound Plato, Aristotle, Cicero
even proved that they dont work..and if you want..I give give you specific
examples! Therefore an Oligarchy would not work..in NR or in any other
Nation. I do not want an Oligarchy..I want the Republic to be a stable
institution..dont put words in my mouth..Germanicus..LOL..they dont work! :)

I am glad you seem to think that the Constitution is the law of the
land..hehehe..Prove it!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:14 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 15:49:45 EST, you write:
>
>> Graecus, the Constitution is being obeyed..However, the Constituiton's
>> supremacy is in doubt and we dont have a Judicial body to interpret
which
>is
>> stronger..the Constitution or the Senatus Consulta...since that is not
in
>> the Constitution the Supremacy of the Constitution is in doubt.
Therefore
>> the Senate is within the bounds of the Constitution.
>
>You are the only person who doubts the Constitution's supremacy. Any child
>knows that the Founding Document has supremacy over what comes later.
>
>But if not, then, hey? Why worry? Heck, why bother with laws at all? Why
>bother with the Constitution?
>
>Let's stop playing at being a Republic and just call ourselves an
Oligarchy.
>Because that's what you're wanting, Sulla.
>
>You say we need some clause? Fine, put it in. But with or without it, we
all
>know the Constitution must be the supreme law of the land.
>
>There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:26:47 -0800

So what you are saying is that the vote was not complete?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 2:23 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 17:12:32 EST, you write:
>
>> Dex, I think it was explained that it didn't even come up for a vote
until
>> today, and was originally proposed on the 11th. Germanicus just jumped
in
>> before the Senate had a chance to post.
>>
>
>Actually, Flavia, that is incorrect. The deciding third vote was cast on
the
>11th. At that point, it passed. They were merely waiting to announce it
until
>it was unanimous.
>
>There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:32:02 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:17:52 EST, you write:

> How convieninet of an interpretation..but that was not what we were told..we
> were told to Vote..based on that reasoning..everyone now is the
spokesperson
> of their own TRIBE..correct Germanicus?
>

Huh?

It's not a "convenient interpretation". It's the way things were. You know...
before you became a Citizen... those Dark Ages.

People were told to vote, it is true. And would it have made sense to say
"Okay, first you have to vote for a spokesman for your tribe. Of course, there
is only one person in your tribe, so first you need to vote for yourself.
Then, having voted for yourself, you can vote for or against the law."???

Common sense, Sulla.

There's still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:36:45 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:24:33 EST, you write:

> I am glad you seem to think that the Constitution is the law of the
> land..hehehe..Prove it!

Simple. The People know it is. And political power must, by definition, come
from the People. We all know that the Constitution is sovereign, and no amount
of legalistic wrangling is going to change that. This isn't some second-year-
law-school exercise. If you want to support the Senate in their usurpation of
the rights of the people, then go ahead. I'll continue to fight for the people
over the Senate, even if-- especially since-- I was once a Senator.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:35:05 -0800

Then given that interpreation..those "spokespersons" should still be the
spokespersons...Correct?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 20:17:52 EST, you write:
>
>> How convieninet of an interpretation..but that was not what we were
told..we
>> were told to Vote..based on that reasoning..everyone now is the
>spokesperson
>> of their own TRIBE..correct Germanicus?
>>
>
>Huh?
>
>It's not a "convenient interpretation". It's the way things were. You
know...
>before you became a Citizen... those Dark Ages.
>
>People were told to vote, it is true. And would it have made sense to say
>"Okay, first you have to vote for a spokesman for your tribe. Of course,
there
>is only one person in your tribe, so first you need to vote for yourself.
>Then, having voted for yourself, you can vote for or against the law."???
>
>Common sense, Sulla.
>
>There's still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:39:50 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:32:21 EST, you write:

>
> So what you are saying is that the vote was not complete?

Leave it to a lawyer to let technical quibbles stand above principle and
substance. Once the majority of yea votes had been cast, the matter had been
decided. I can point to Senatus Consultae that certain Senators never voted
yea or nay on. Does that mean the vote is still out, and the matter is still
unresolved? Of course not.

Back to law school with you, Sulla. You need to learn the value of common
sense.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:37:21 -0800


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:44:33 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:40:37 EST, you write:

> Then given that interpreation..those "spokespersons" should still be the
> spokespersons...Correct?

For someone who talks so much about our Constitution, you seem woefully
uninformed about it.

Speakers for the Centuries are elected only for the duration of the vote at
hand. They are re-elected for every vote. In those Centuries where there are
more than one person, under the current system, there is no guarantee who the
new speaker would be for a new vote.

There is still enough time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:42:47 -0800

No..Germanicus I know the value of letting a vote be completed..the vote is
not over till all the ballots are counted..regardless if the outcome is
apparent or not..that implies that voting doesnt count..or that one vote
doesnt matter..thats not a good principle to be instilling on our
citiziens..especially our new citizens Germanicus!

Every vote counts!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
-----Original Message-----
From: JoeBloch@-------- JoeBloch@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:41 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Elections and the Constitution

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-13 20:32:21 EST, you write:
>
>>
>> So what you are saying is that the vote was not complete?
>
>Leave it to a lawyer to let technical quibbles stand above principle and
>substance. Once the majority of yea votes had been cast, the matter had
been
>decided. I can point to Senatus Consultae that certain Senators never voted
>yea or nay on. Does that mean the vote is still out, and the matter is
still
>unresolved? Of course not.
>
>Back to law school with you, Sulla. You need to learn the value of common
>sense.
>
>There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Co-Founder, Citizen
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:54:24 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:43:09 EST, you write:

> by what defination? Political philosphy has proven that not all power
> orignates at the people..it is propertied people..Germanicus..change hardly
> ever begins at the bottom..but at the middle or Top..

So, Candidate Sulla, you eschew giving power to the Citizens? I'm sure your
would-be constitutents will be happy to hear that.

> So..if you are so much with the People Germanicus..when are you going to
> become a Pleb and run for Tribune of the Plebs to "protect" the people from
> the Senate?

The matter has actually been mentioned privately before now. And no, I will
not. I will continue to serve Nova Roma in the coming year in many ways. I
don't see serving in elected office as being one of those ways. I am sure that
at least one of the candidates for Tribune of the Plebs will act honorably to
protect the integrity of our Constitution.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do so.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:03:27 -0800


Subject:	Re: Could anybody read this? :-)
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:18:11 -0800 (PST)

Salvete

OK I realise that for some of you English isn't your first language,
but can someone please prov=ide a translation?

Vale

Noct'a
In humble honour of the lone hero who defeated Bill Gates

---"T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@-------- wrote:
>
> From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
>
> T. Horatius Atticus s. d. Gaio Mario
>
>
> >Salve Arture
> >
> >Multum doleo sed non potui legere tuam epistulam solas paucas
partes eius
> >Qualem linguam habes in mente scribens de barbara lingua
> >
> >>Exatamente. Ainda sou um veleador nesta língua bárbara. :( A
entendo,
> porém
> >>na hora de escrever...
>
>
> forsitan arturus noster latini usum non habeat quare linguae lusitanae
> peritus egomet reddere possum
> ego multum doleo te sermonem lusitanum non intellegere
> sane anglicam vult pro barbara lingua adulescens
> anglii nonne barbari erant
> :-)
>
> >>Óhh Roma! :~( Queria tanto ter nascido 3 mil anos atrás!
> >
> >Si recte intellexi desideras ut natus sis ante MMM annos ut posses
vivere
> >cive Romano antiquae rei publicae Verumne
>
>
> Ita vero est
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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>


Subject:	Re: Elections and the Constitution
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:14:46 EST

In a message dated 98-11-13 21:09:19 EST, you write:

> Well you dont sound very Loyal to your Patrician status! you should be a
> Pleb! :)

I'm loyal to Nova Roma. Try it sometime.

There is still time to act Constitutionally. Do it.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder, Citizen


Subject:	Official Beverages
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:26:15 -0800

Valete Omnes, Strenuus Salus et Bona Fortuna!

I would offer that the official beverages (as we have imbibing and
non-imbibing Citizens) be Pyment {a Mead made from Honey and Grapes} and
Grape Juice, either of which lend themselves to Mulling (the flavoring
with spices of a warmed beverage). To that end I offer, a Mulling
recipe.

4 quarts of Pyment (or Red Grape juice) 2 cups of Honey
In a muslin spice/teabag place: 1/2 tsp cracked Nutmeg, 1 tsp cracked
Allspice, 1 tsp whole Cloves, 4 tsp cracked Cinnamon, 1/2 tsp cracked
Cardamon and 1/2 tsp cracked crystal Ginger
Slice thinly 1 each, fist sized Lemon and Orange

Simmer all together for 30 minutes, stirring to make sure the honey
dissolves. Serve hot in big mugs, with a Firecherry garnish. (See the
November Eagle for recipe.) Makes 16 servings.

Valete, Venator

VENATOR PRO QUAESTOR! PRAESCRIPTUM PRO OMNES! SUCCESS PRO NOVA ROMA!
RES PUBLICA, NIL OLIGARCHIA! AMICUS, NIL CHAO!
POPULI PRO SENATUS! SENATUS PRO POPULI! OMNES PRO IUS!