| Subject: |
[Fwd: [hellenicpagan] Re: Oceania] |
| From: |
Pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:43:57 +0000 |
|
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:09:05 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/24/98 5:55:44 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:
<< I think that your malicious words are being guided, not by political care
but by envy. Envy of Metellus for being the Senator you wanted to be, and
envy of my protagonism as defender of the people, which is the main duty of
a Tribune of the Plebs! >>
GIRL! NOW RIP THAT WIG OFF!!!!!!!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:05:57 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/23/98 4:30:06 PM EST, masterofhistor--------.. writes:
<< Where was I you ask? I was in the Forum, in the Taverna, using the
e-mail even the phone talking to our constituents, something I doubt
you care to do. >>
{{{eyes turn towards Graecus and Metullus for rebuttals}}}}}
Tennis anyone?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Cute |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:14:19 EST |
|
MARTHA STEWART WILL DIE! THIS I COMMAND!
--Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus
Antibellum Marthum Stewartum Disgustum
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:20:03 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/24/98 1:12:24 PM EST, rmerullo@-------- writes:
<< I and others have brought up the current anglocentricity of Nova Roma as a
potential obstacle to the growth of Nova Roma throughout the orbis terrarum.
The language barrier seems to have been one of the prime impetus in the
proposal to establish the collegium advocatorum.
To contribute to an eventual remedy of the situation, I propose to translate
the constitution into Latin, then Russian.
Before I take any action on this idea, I would like to find out whether
anyone else thinks that it is a good idea. If even a couple of citizens
concur, I intend to move forward. If not, I'll drop it. >>
Well...not to sound like a stick in the mud, but c'mon
folks...Anglocentricity! Ok..so the majority of citizens are english
speaking. The fact of the matter is that english is the universal language.
Sorry if it's not your native tongue, but get over it and move on. It's used
throughout the world for business, airtraffic control, politics, and the like.
Sorry to go off the deep end, but let's say we translate to Russian...and then
to Portuguese...and then to Spanish...what about Italian, Hebrew, Chinese,
Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Arabic,....what do Eskimos speak? Oh...let's not
forget Navaho!
Ok...Dex is losing it at 1:30am with 34 e-mails to go. I think the proposed
collegium is a great idea to help our english-as-a-second-language citizens,
but let's not translate everything into every known language. That's just
insane and counterproductive. Do you know how many damn web pages you'll need
for that?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Sealing wax and rings |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:21:23 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/24/98 1:25:07 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:
<< Or you can do what I did and just cough up the $3.00 at the stationery
store! I had no idea you could do it yourself. Sounds like fun! >>
Ok...where can I get an insignia in the letter "D"? I have been to dozens of
art stores and they don't carry any. I know I used to see letter insignias
for sealing wax....
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:24:41 EST |
|
Metullus,
Looks like you have a "go ahead".
I wish you and those who can help you well. Though I just hope it doesn't get
out of hand for you and NR.
--Dexippus
<<28 more e-mails to go>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Sealing wax and rings |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:11:50 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/24/98 11:24:31 PM Central Standard Time,
Dexippus@-------- writes:
>
> Ok...where can I get an insignia in the letter "D"? I have been to dozens
> of
> art stores and they don't carry any. I know I used to see letter insignias
> for sealing wax....
>
Have you tried the Hallmark Gift Shops and some of the candle boutiques like
Wicks 'n' Sticks? Both of those carry initial seals to use with sealing wax -
and sometimes a few others. And if you can get it - the catalog for Past
Times from England carries a nice selection, too.
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
toga help |
| From: |
Ira Adams iadams@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:27:16 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes.
Does anyone have a source for a pattern for a Republican-era toga? We
have an Imperial pattern on our Web site.
Also, it has been many years since I last donned a toga, and I can't
remember how it's done. We have no clear instructions posted for wearing
one.
L. Sergius Aust.
aut amat aut odit mulier: nihil est tertium.
Publilius Syrus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
Ira Adams iadams@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:27:00 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
Translations of the Consititution may be nice, but I think it will be
important to specify that the original is the only "official" version. It
is no trivial point that meanings change with translation, and it is
almost inevitable that it will come out differently in different
languages.
L. Sergius Aust.
purgamentum init, exit purgamentum.
(Garbage in, garbage out.)
|
| Subject: |
Qui taceat consentire |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:54:09 -0500 |
|
"Qui tacet consentire videtur" is in origin a rule of roman law, though I'd
have to burrow in the library to find the reference. But the roman law
CONTEXT is (I think) joint guardianships of minors and business
partnerships - where it is obvious that there is a duty to respond in some
way to proposals made to you.
Also from the same context - "Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus
approbari debeat" (again this may need correcting from a library), 'what
affects everyone should be approved by everyone'. The medieval lawyers
applied this second rule to require parliamentary consent to laws and
taxes, and then found they needed to use the first to explain why people
who didn't bother to vote in elections still had to pay taxes ...
In roman as well as modern law silence when charged is not a
confession and silence in the face of a defamatory statement (our example)
does not equal consent to the defamation!
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: Cute |
| From: |
Shawn Kelley discordianpirate@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:02:04 -0800 (PST) |
|
---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> MARTHA STEWART WILL DIE! THIS I COMMAND!
>
> --Dexippus
> Divus Maximus Extremus
> Antibellum Marthum Stewartum Disgustum
>
No!!! Martha stewart has helped millions!
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Gallio Velius Marsalas |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:56:12 -0500 (EST) |
|
Greetings Praefectus Marsalas:
My respects to the Praefectus, and my best wishes for his good health
and a light march.
Your comments regarding getting together are very welcome, and if we can
find a central place, your suggestion appeals extremely.
I too, am interested in the military aspect of N.R., but from a military
archetechture and cartography point of view. I am associated with XXth
Legio Valera Victrix in the Baltimore area. I am not familiar with the
town that you gave as your residence. Is it closer to Pittsburgh or
Philadelphia?
You are quite correct that there seems to be little interest in the
military aspects of Rome, within the N.R., but that is the other side of
the coin, in my estimation. The Roman military like all military
services at any point in history is taken from the culture that reqires
the service. It is usually a much stiffer culture within a culture for
the simple reason that you are training people who will be called upon
to give their lives if need be for the needs of the state. To
understand those needs fully one must understand the state which spawns
the military service. For my money, Nova Roma provides that view.
Certainly there are disagreements regarding the political situation,
there are religious questions that must be settled, and there are many
other aspects of Rome that we must solve to make a micro-nation, just as
Rome did 20 centuries ago. But that is the thrill of being part of
something that is going through the same problems of our anchestors.
The Military is an important part of the whole, but not the most
important part, at least not during the Republic. I don't know much
Latin and I am certainly not a Political Science Major, but I can
appreciate what is going on, within this microcasm and enjoy it. True,
sometimes somebody gets carried away, but that too is part of what is
happening, and that is the exciting part about the whole thing. When I
hear two would be candidates debating, that is what happened 2000+ years
ago!!!! My God, how much more exciting can it get. The only thing that
hasn't changed much is man himself, and the same arguments are run off
here with likely the same accusations, the same self-praise, and the
same eagerness that was played out in the Forum of Rome. I consider
myself to be a Military Historian, but I have to tell you that this is
almost like being in a time machine, and I do love it. So go ahead guys
and gals, give it your best shot, we are watching history repeat itself
in every E-Mail Message, and what historian is not up for that???
Vale Honored Praefectus;
For the Republic; Honor and Victory!!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
N.R. Military Tribune (Architechture and Cartography)
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:48:36 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
>I have heard little and have understood less about your "care" for the
>Plebeans, the constitution or Nova Roma in general.
Dear Avidius Tullius Callidus, then you certainly pay no attention to the
mailing list, because one thing I have never done (others did) was to spit
on the Constitution, sacrificing it for political benefits!
Moreover, from what I've seen there was one man who really cared about the
people and the Constitution! That man was Fladius Vedius Germanicus and you
forgot to help him when he needed more. You did not even say a word of
support for his sacrifice of political career... Maybe you were affraid of
disgusting some magistrates and senators you will need for YOUR successful
future!
>I'll just say that since the
>office of Tribune is one that carries with it many responsibilities, I
>have conducted my campaign in a responsible manner. Have you?
I have! And the most obvious evidence was my hosnest position during the
Constitutional crisis, taking into account the bad consequences that could
come from it. But still, there is a difference between being moderate and
being silent!
>Regarding the duties of a Tribune, I certainly know more about them
>than you. I have been the only candidate for the Tribunate which has
>decided to talk about the duties and powers of the office with the
>people. Tribunician veto power has many concerned about its use or
>misuse. You would understand how to relieve their concerns if you
>knew the office better and conversed with the people directly.
There are two Tribunes of the Plebs, did you know that? So, if both Tribunes
agree in the veto decision... Well, something is wrong...
Just concentrate on the real problems. Don't waste the attention of the
people with minor details!
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Masterofhistor--------sterofhistor--------..
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:36 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
>From: Masterofhistor--------sterofhistor--------..
>
>Salve salusque,
>
>I have heard little and have understood less about your "care" for the
>Plebeans, the constitution or Nova Roma in general. As to your
>specific attacks on my campaign style I'll just say that since the
>office of Tribune is one that carries with it many responsibilities, I
>have conducted my campaign in a responsible manner. Have you?
>Regarding the duties of a Tribune, I certainly know more about them
>than you. I have been the only candidate for the Tribunate which has
>decided to talk about the duties and powers of the office with the
>people. Tribunician veto power has many concerned about its use or
>misuse. You would understand how to relieve their concerns if you
>knew the office better and conversed with the people directly.
>
>Regarding your screed about my envy and Metellus, I do not even know
>how to respond to that. Let's just stop the character attacks, we are
>all Nova Romans and that is no small thing.
>
>Respectfully,
>Avidius Tullius Callidus
>Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
>Candidate for Tribune of the People
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:55:33 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
>I agree with Calladius completely and state here and now that he would be
an
>excellent Tribune of the Plebs. He, like myself, appear to be quite annoyed
>and disgusted by the constant conspiracy theories and personal attacks.
Yes, I agree too. You make an wonderful silent and consenting and
politically successful pair! =)
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
To: masterofhistory@-------- masterofhistory@--------;
<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 12:12 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
>From: FJGA@--------
>
>I agree with Calladius completely and state here and now that he would be
an
>excellent Tribune of the Plebs. He, like myself, appear to be quite annoyed
>and disgusted by the constant conspiracy theories and personal attacks.
>
>Metellus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:59:32 -0000 |
|
Salvete!
Oh, by the way, Metellus!
Weren't you in the Senate session when the Constitutional change was
discussed? I wasn't there... But you should have warned the people and
explained the situation... That way, yes, You would have proved to be a good
candidate for Tribune, not the silent way you acted!
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Qui taceat consentire |
| From: |
"Fabio Incutti" incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:32:16 +0100 |
|
Valete, Merello et alii,
>
> Qui taceat consentire
> "Whosoever remains silent (will be deemed) to agree"
It seems to me to remember, from the course of Roman Law History that I took
at University a few yoears ago, that the exact brocard was:
Qui taceat consentire videtur, si loquire debuisset ac potuisset.
Whosoever remains silent (will be demeed) to agree, if he had to speak or if
he could speak.
I guess that is one of that rules of the Roman Law that came up to us from
Pandettae or trought the filter of the Middle Age Law. I'll make some
research.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
"Fabio Incutti" incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:35:42 +0100 |
|
>
> However, since I've been listening to my friend Sulla lately, I would
cautioon
> that translation often reads differently in a language other than the
> one it was written in. We (NR) would want to make sure that
> let's say a
> Russian Cive gets the same thing out of the Constitution that a
> Portuguese speaking Cive does and the same, of course applies
> to all the
> languages represented in NR. That seems to me to be a much larger
> potential problem than just translating the document.
>
My opinion is that the English or the Latin version (or both of them) could
be considered the official Constitution, while all the other transalations
could be considered as simple documents intended for the ease of access for
all citizens.
Vale
Primus Fabius C.
----------------------------------------------------
Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:05:06 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Given the differences between portuguese portuguese =) and brazilian
portuguese, althout Horatius Atticus has offered himself to translate the
Constitution, I will also do it in behalf of portuguese citizens.
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
FJGA@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:14:33 EST |
|
I wish you'd make your mind up. first i'm some deep dark conspirator planning
on destroying NR and setting up a new Emperor. Now I'm a silent consenter to
everything. Just my opinion, but you may wish to get your insults straight.
Thank you once again for proving my point regarding your sanity.
Metellus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:33:23 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
>I wish you'd make your mind up. first i'm some deep dark conspirator
planning
>on destroying NR and setting up a new Emperor. Now I'm a silent consenter
to
>everything. Just my opinion, but you may wish to get your insults straight.
>Thank you once again for proving my point regarding your sanity.
Dear Metellus... Don't run away from my question... You have to answer the
people!
Why did you keep absolute silence about the changing of the Constitution?
Why havn't you proved your honesty and ability as candidate for Tribune? The
motion was approved unanimously, which means that you voted YES!
Let alone my insanity! These facts were real and Germanicus has made them
public! I haven't heard no justification from you! I've only heard your
fellow Senators Palladius and Cincinnatus justifying the decision. You also
have a great responsibility as candidate for Tribune, and as I said before,
you lost your opportunity!
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
To: amg <amg>; <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 12:16 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
>From: FJGA@--------
>
>I wish you'd make your mind up. first i'm some deep dark conspirator
planning
>on destroying NR and setting up a new Emperor. Now I'm a silent consenter
to
>everything. Just my opinion, but you may wish to get your insults straight.
>Thank you once again for proving my point regarding your sanity.
>
>Metellus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Anglocentricity |
| From: |
"T. Horatius Atticus" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:56:43 -0200 |
|
AVETE QUIRITES
>From: Dexippus@--------
>Well...not to sound like a stick in the mud, but c'mon
>folks...Anglocentricity! Ok..so the majority of citizens are english
>speaking. The fact of the matter is that english is the universal
language.
>Sorry if it's not your native tongue, but get over it and move on. It's
used
>throughout the world for business, airtraffic control, politics, and the
like.
Well, primo: no need to be sorry about me, Dexippe, because I wouldn't like
(if the choice had been possible) to speak English as a native language for
aesthetic reasons.
Secundo: "The English is the UNIVERSAL language". I wouldn't be surprised
if I saw the flag of the USA on the web page of NR. Can't you accept that
Roma isn't an north-american institution? If someone here has the wright to
claim the hereditas romana, this is the latin population/culture --
Portuguese, Italians, Spaniards and Brazilians.
I know everything is too easy when Elizabeth Taylor is Cleopatra and another
noth-american actor is Caesar. However NR is not, as far as I know,
Hollywood.
"C'mon folks", let's accept the patterns. Let us all be christians,
heterosexuals, English speakers. And why all this Roma thing? Roma is death!
Let us honour the big, powerful, redemptor USA!
>Sorry to go off the deep end, but let's say we translate to Russian...and
then
>to Portuguese...and then to Spanish...what about Italian, Hebrew, Chinese,
>Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Arabic,....what do Eskimos speak? Oh...let's not
>forget Navaho!
What would be the problem about Navaho if we had Navaho speakers among us in
NR (of course it would be unproductive, because this community, being
north-american citizens speak English)? I don't know what do Eskimos speak,
but if the grouth of NR is to be expected in this area I wouldn't hesitate
to support the idea.
>Ok...Dex is losing it at 1:30am with 34 e-mails to go. I think the
proposed
>collegium is a great idea to help our english-as-a-second-language
citizens,
>but let's not translate everything into every known language. That's just
>insane and counterproductive. Do you know how many damn web pages you'll
need
>for that?
The Collegium has no intention to be a translator's club. The Advocati will
act in case of conflict of interests (and, by extention, difficulties of
relationship between cives or among cives and the State) when their
intervention is requested.
The proposal of translating the Constitution didn't come from the Collegium,
but from a private cives. I cannot speak for the Collegium (and it is not
formed yet) but I don't even accept this Personal Caesarian Constitution!
I don't know how many of you think like Dexippus. Maybe I am in the wrong
pub; that can be easily resolved.
T. Horatius Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Venator amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:48:22 -0800 |
|
> (clip) but I don't even accept this Personal Caesarian Constitution!
>
Salve T. Horatius Atticus, Salus et Fortuna;
Then, Atticus, why did you become a Citizen? If you read the website,
you should have understood that the Constitution is the basis for our
Governance and Institutions, if you can not accept it, then how could
you accept the Organization of which it is the Founding Document?
I have valued your suggestions for a Collegium Advocatum as being a
productive critique, but the anti-Yankee attitude is not. I think, if
our binding fator is a love of our mutual Roman Heritage, we can move
beyond this in our Nova Roman dealings.
As far as modern English not being expressive enough, there is much to
be said in favor of that. I am a native American-English speaker, a
language which is a large ramshackle building which sits upon a
foundation of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon dialect. My maternal
grandparents are Italian, thay barred the speaking of their native
tongue in the home because they came to the United States to be
Americans. Is that a loss to me? I don't realize a loss, since I have
never had the Italian as my own.
Is there a perception that the U.S. is the world Ruffian? Sure. But
would you rather have the Soviet Empire or Communist Chinese Hegemony be
the big dog? Or, if we had stayed out of World War II, as the
Isolationists wanted, what then? The U.S. is an over 200 years old
Republic which uses many democratic principles in its methods of
governance. We have never had a military coup, no generals juntas, no
masses disenfranchished by anything save their own apathy. Have we done
wrong, sure. Have we done good, Yes. The world's getting too small for
Nationalist bickering. We must remain proud of our origins, but use
them as foundation stones for the future. Let's not remain bogged down
in the failed revolutionary rhetoric of the past.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:35:59 -0500 |
|
Salvete Cives
>Why did you keep absolute silence about the changing of the Constitution?
The Constitution was NOT changed. We simply passes a Senatus
Consultum that allowed Nova Roma to hold elections by a 'straight ballot'
rather than through the Centuries, This First Year, just like every other
decision, This First Year. Thus each citizen has their own vote, something
that will not be so after the various Tribes and Centuries are formed. If
you have any questions about the forming of these Comitiae contact the
Censores.
I will leave the rest for the Plebs to discuss, but I just wanted to
get this straight about the Constitution.
Vale, L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus
>Why havn't you proved your honesty and ability as candidate for Tribune?
>The motion was approved unanimously, which means that you voted YES!
>Let alone my insanity! These facts were real and Germanicus has made them
>public! I haven't heard no justification from you! I've only heard your
>fellow Senators Palladius and Cincinnatus justifying the decision. You also
>have a great responsibility as candidate for Tribune, and as I said before,
>you lost your opportunity!
>
>Valete!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
"T. Horatius Atticus" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:33:52 -0200 |
|
Avete
Venator amgunn@--------
>
>> (clip) but I don't even accept this Personal Caesarian Constitution!
>>
>Salve T. Horatius Atticus, Salus et Fortuna;
>
>Then, Atticus, why did you become a Citizen? If you read the website,
>you should have understood that the Constitution is the basis for our
>Governance and Institutions, if you can not accept it, then how could
>you accept the Organization of which it is the Founding Document?
I became a cives because I do love Roma, which had no written Constitution
and I do love the gods, who as our previous web page said, were calling.
Who made the this Holy Unchangeable Constitution? Are we talking about a
rule of organization or about the mosaic Law?
Only a "Simplicius Simplicissimus" (to be polite) could accept that such a
Constitution could be definitive.
>
>I have valued your suggestions for a Collegium Advocatum as being a
>productive critique, but the anti-Yankee attitude is not. I think, if
>our binding fator is a love of our mutual Roman Heritage, we can move
>beyond this in our Nova Roman dealings.
I didn't speak representing the Collegium. I spoke as a LATIN, trying to
express an opinion about the translation of this document you call
Constiution.
>My maternal
>grandparents are Italian, thay barred the speaking of their native
>tongue in the home because they came to the United States to be
>Americans. Is that a loss to me? I don't realize a loss, since I have
>never had the Italian as my own.
Well, part of my family is German and this language was spoken 'zu Hause'.
But I am very proud to be Latin and to speak Portuguese (just to give an
aswer to this familiar affaire brought by you). My god are not the ones from
the northern Pantheon. My Gods are the Olympians.
>Is there a perception that the U.S. is the world Ruffian? Sure. But
>would you rather have the Soviet Empire or Communist Chinese Hegemony be
>the big dog?
Do you think I am a communist? Why, only because I am Brazilian and deffend
myself against imperialistic expressions?
> Or, if we had stayed out of World War II, as the
>Isolationists wanted, what then? The U.S. is an over 200 years old
>Republic which uses many democratic principles in its methods of
>governance.
Why this discussion, my dear Venator? Who is interested about the World War
II? Wouldn't it be more adequate to write something about De Bello Gallico?
> We have never had a military coup, no generals juntas, no
>masses disenfranchished by anything save their own apathy. Have we done
>wrong, sure. Have we done good, Yes. The world's getting too small for
>Nationalist bickering. We must remain proud of our origins, but use
>them as foundation stones for the future. Let's not remain bogged down
>in the failed revolutionary rhetoric of the past.
Bene est. I don't deserve this answer because I have NEVER said something
against your country. If you would be interested about History you could
learn more about the militar Juntas and who supported them in America (the
septentrional portion, well understood).
Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:53:36 -0500 |
|
>From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
>
>Avete
>
>Venator amgunn@--------
>>
>>> (clip) but I don't even accept this Personal Caesarian Constitution!
>>>
>>Salve T. Horatius Atticus, Salus et Fortuna;
>>
>>Then, Atticus, why did you become a Citizen?
>
>I became a cives because I do love Roma, which had no written Constitution
>and I do love the gods, who as our previous web page said, were calling.
>Only a "Simplicius Simplicissimus" (to be polite) could accept that such a
>Constitution could be definitive.
>
>>
>>I have valued your suggestions for a Collegium Advocatum as being a
>>productive critique, but the anti-Yankee attitude is not.
>
>I didn't speak representing the Collegium. I spoke as a LATIN, trying to
>express an opinion about the translation of this document you call
>Constiution.
>
>>never had the Italian as my own.
>
>My god are not the ones from
>the northern Pantheon. My Gods are the Olympians.
>
>>Is there a perception that the U.S. is the world Ruffian? Sure.
>
>Do you think I am a communist? Why, only because I am Brazilian and deffend
>myself against imperialistic expressions?
>
>>The U.S. is an over 200 years old
>>Republic which uses many democratic principles in its methods of
>>governance.
>
> Why this discussion, my dear Venator? Who is interested about the World
War
>II? Wouldn't it be more adequate to write something about De Bello Gallico?
>
>> We have never had a military coup, no generals juntas, no
>>masses disenfranchished by anything save their own apathy>
>
>Bene est. I don't deserve this answer because I have NEVER said something
>against your country. >Atticus
>
OK enough!!!!! Take this to Private Emails!! It has gotten personal!
If Anyone has something to say to an individual say it to THE individual not
the Whole list. Thanks,
Vale L Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collegium Advocatorum |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:14:14 EST |
|
Salvete, Omnes,
I have to date been unable to get involved in the discussion of the Collegium
Advocatorum, due to my personal work schedule and time spent on the coming
elections.
I personally find the Collegium Advocatorum to be an excellent idea! From the
beginning Nova Roma has been intended as a truly International organization.
By definition this means that there will be many folks who have no knowledge
of English (by default the language our main website is in), and who therefore
might have difficulty in taking full advantage of everything Nova Roma has to
offer.
The concept of Citizens giving assistance to Citizens is a sound one. Services
in translating seem to be only one portion of this idea... this Collegium
would give Nova Roma the capacity to introduce itself on a more personal level
around the world, and maintain a real level of *service* among ALL it's
Citizens.
Hopefully this proposal can be considered in terms of positive benefit to
Citizens rather than making it an issue about geography or language. I've been
hoping to hear more from non-US Citizens, (especially since many of them live
in Ancient Roman territory!) and can't help but think that Nova Roma's cause
as a Micronation can be best advanced by as much positive International
recognition as we can get! ;)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
Titus Horatius Atticus writes:
<< Avete Quirites
we'd like to come back to the question of the official language of NR.
As a matter of fact, being non English native, some citizen do find some
difficulties in expressing their ideas or, simplier, in relating with other
citizens, due to the use of English as the official language.
We know very well that nobody, in our Res Publica, will ever be unpolite or
will miss to pay the due consideration to another non English citizen. At
the same time, we guess that everybody here will admit that it is sometimes
hard for a Portugese or an Italian (etc.) to express his own ideas correctly
and without misunderstandings.
Therefore, after an accurate evaluation of the case, we have tought to
establish the _Collegium Advocatorum_ in order to help any citizen in his
relations with the authorities of NR or with other citizens.
We believe that our proposal is in the sense of the goals of Nova Roma: we
want to rescue the ancient tradition of the very first attorneys which were,
at the beginning, the representatives of those who, for many reasons related
to culture, education, census, etc., were not able to self express in any
circumstance of the associated life.
We also propose to the public discussion the following items reguarding the
statute of the Collegium Advocatorum:
1) The access to the Collegium is granted to every citizen of Nova Roma;
2) Any member of the Collegium will help, within his own skills and
possibilities, any citizen who shall ask for;
3) Any citizen shall be free to ask to the Collegium and/or to any single
Advocatus for being represented in any matter;
4) Each year the members of the Collegium will appoint three members to form
the Board of Directors. The BoD shall assign any request of representation
filed directly to the Collegium to a single Advocatus skilled in the
particular matter implied by the request itself.
5) The BoD shall have a disciplinary power against the members of the
Collegium and shall, under given and serious circumstances, decide the
permanent or temporary dismiss of an Advocate. Against the decisions of the
BoD, if in contrast with the Laws and the Constitution of Nova Roma, any
Advocate shall have the right to ask to the Praetor Urbanis for a trial.
6) The representation is basically free from any fee. Should any Advocate
ask for a fee, the citizen shall ask to the Collegium for a Consultum. The
BoD shall evalute the question, the time and the abilities requested to the
Advocatus in order to give his best assistance to the citizen, the amount
asked and any other relevant circumstance; then the BoD shall make a
Consultum with which either shall approve the request of the Advocate or
reject it (in this case appinting another Advocate in case the first refuses
to assist the citizen).
7) The Advocate shall never assume a representation if he is in conflict of
interest with the citizen.
Valete
Primus Fabius
Titus Horatius Atticus
--------------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<DIV>Avete Quirites
we'd like to come back to the question of the
official language of NR.
As a matter of fact, being non English native, some
citizen do find some
difficulties in expressing their ideas or, simplier, in
relating with other
citizens, due to the use of English as the official
language.
We know very well that nobody, in our Res Publica, will ever be
unpolite or
will miss to pay the due consideration to another non English
citizen. At
the same time, we guess that everybody here will admit that it is
sometimes
hard for a Portugese or an Italian (etc.) to express his own ideas
correctly
and without misunderstandings.
Therefore, after an accurate
evaluation of the case, we have tought to
establish the _Collegium
Advocatorum_ in order to help any citizen in his
relations with the
authorities of NR or with other citizens.
We believe that our proposal is in
the sense of the goals of Nova Roma: we
want to rescue the ancient tradition
of the very first attorneys which were,
at the beginning, the representatives
of those who, for many reasons related
to culture, education, census, etc.,
were not able to self express in any
circumstance of the associated
life.
We also propose to the public discussion the following items reguarding
the
statute of the Collegium Advocatorum:
1) The access to the Collegium
is granted to every citizen of Nova Roma;
2) Any member of the Collegium will
help, within his own skills and
possibilities, any citizen who shall ask
for;
3) Any citizen shall be free to ask to the Collegium and/or to any
single
Advocatus for being represented in any matter;
4) Each year the
members of the Collegium will appoint three members to form
the Board of
Directors. The BoD shall assign any request of representation
filed directly
to the Collegium to a single Advocatus skilled in the
particular matter
implied by the request itself.
5) The BoD shall have a disciplinary power
against the members of the
Collegium and shall, under given and serious
circumstances, decide the
permanent or temporary dismiss of an Advocate.
Against the decisions of the
BoD, if in contrast with the Laws and the
Constitution of Nova Roma, any
Advocate shall have the right to ask to the
Praetor Urbanis for a trial.
6) The representation is basically free from any
fee. Should any Advocate
ask for a fee, the citizen shall ask to the
Collegium for a Consultum. The
BoD shall evalute the question, the time and
the abilities requested to the
Advocatus in order to give his best assistance
to the citizen, the amount
asked and any other relevant circumstance; then
the BoD shall make a
Consultum with which either shall approve the request of
the Advocate or
reject it (in this case appinting another Advocate in case
the first refuses
to assist the citizen).
7) The Advocate shall never
assume a representation if he is in conflict of
interest with the
citizen.
Valete
Primus Fabius
Titus Horatius Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
flavia@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:58:27 -0600 |
|
Salvete, Quirites!
Si valetis, valeo. Bene est!
Being a mere 20 year-old, myself, I usually keep quiet and do not
meddle in these complicated and volatile discussions. However, when
I often read these heated debates concerning subjective issues, I
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
"T. Horatius Atticus" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:42:18 -0200 |
|
Avete Quirites
Ave Senator
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>OK enough!!!!! Take this to Private Emails!! It has gotten personal!
>
>If Anyone has something to say to an individual say it to THE individual
not
>the Whole list. Thanks,
>
>Vale L Equitius Cincinnatus
I. Am I supposed to be silent when a Cives in public provocates me??? His
provocation should be private, and in this case I would have answered it in
private.
Is there right to an answer in NR, noble Senator and dear cives?
(Sorry to be so insistent)
II. I resign from any position in the (future) Collegium Advocatorum. This
institution is a very good idea and my presence in it could be
inconvenient.
Valete
T. Horatius Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of Constitution |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:07:09 EST |
|
Salvete,
Translation of Nova Roma materials is certainly something that will need to be
done, sooner or later. The more International Provincia come online the
greater the need for International understanding will be.
In a message dated 98-11-24 13:12:44 EST, Gaius Marius Merullus writes:
>Has anyone begun to translate the text of the constitution?
Not as far as I'm aware. This is not due to disinterest in such a project, or
any kind of oversite... it's simply because Nova Roma is still in it's first
year of existance. Just getting the Constitution and other materials *created*
has been a big step!
> I and others have brought up the current anglocentricity of Nova Roma as a
potential obstacle to the growth of Nova Roma throughout the orbis terrarum.
The language barrier seems to have been one of the prime impetus in the
proposal to establish the collegium advocatorum.
I believe that "Anglocentricity" was not intended to be any kind of insult
here, and hopefully no one will take it as such. Nova Roma was simply begun in
the US, and the website and infrastructure is being maintained from the US.
Using English as the default language has simply been necessary for getting
Nova Roma started.
The intention has been that each of the International Provincia will
eventually be able to maintain it's own local version of the Nova Roma
infrastructure, so that all Citizens will be able to participate fully no
matter where they're from or what language they speak.
>To contribute to an eventual remedy of the situation, I propose to translate
the constitution into Latin, then Russian.
There's no reason NOT to translate the Constitution into these two
languages... but it would be interesting to hear more about why they would
make a good "first choice". Few of our Citizens in *any* nation speak Latin,
and as far as I know we have no Citizens in Russia at the moment. No one has
heard from our Praetor (and only Citizen) there in months. If I had to bet on
languages which would get the most use, I'd pick Spanish, French and Portugese
at present.
> Before I take any action on this idea, I would like to find out whether
anyone else thinks that it is a good idea. If even a couple of citizens
concur, I intend to move forward. If not, I'll drop it.
Since getting materials translated will be an ongoing project for a long time
to come, there's no reason why there would be any reason to drop this
proposal.
>In the event that some of you do think that it is a worthy undertaking, I
shall require the assistance of two editors. Since I'll be tackling the
Latin text first, I'll need to find first an editor proficient in Latin.
The editor should have some knowledge of Latin, preferably including having
read some classical texts and, perhaps, some formal training in composition.
I myself lack the latter and dont even know whether it is included in
University Classics programs anymore. The editor should be able to commit
up to an hour or so a week on the project, reviewing my text and providing
comments, as applicable, on my usage of Latin vocabulary, tenses, moods
etc., and assist in overcoming gaps in vocabulary due to anachronism. The
editor should be flexible as well, and realize that some weeks I may
translate less than others; there may even be weeks during which I am
unable to translate at all. I view the project as requiring several months
for completion. When it is finished, I would intend to submit it to the
Senate for approval and publication (on the website, by e-mail, in the Eagle
and/or however the Senate deems appropriate).
Since I don't speak or read either Latin or Russian, I'm staying out of the
details... ;)
> I realize that the end product will not be a document that Cicero would have
consented to incorporate into a speech from the rostra, but I think that it
would be foolish to allow insistence upon perfection to deter us from so
much as an attempt.
It would certainly be very difficult to attain perfection in ANY of the
translating that will be done! However, that's a limitation that all
International communities face.
>Upon the Senate's acceptance of the Latin text, I would then seek a Russian
editor and undertake the Russian text in much the same fashion. I think
that the Russian text would move much faster, however, and be done within
one month. The task of a fluent Russian editor would likewise be much
easier.
Again, knowing perhaps four Russian words, I'm keeping out of this... ;)
> I think that, if I can successfully complete this project for the benefit of
Nova Roma, it will only help our common goals, including population growth,
particularly outside anglophone countries. I do not pretend to be a Latin
author or authority, but I did study the language and feel that I could
produce a reasonable translation.
Again, there is a LOT of translating that needs to be done. We'll no doubt
need to be continually translating both older and new materials in perpetuity.
There is of course no problem in storing such translations as files, so that
they can be provided to the various Provincia at need.
One thing we will be UNABLE to do is provide translated copy of everything, in
every language, on the Nova Roma website. The costs of such bandwidth would be
massive, and there would be more information than we could effectively manage
in any case. This is why the various Provincia are important... so that
Citizens in all countries will have full access to information and local
participation.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
-
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity/Replies to attacks. |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:56:50 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 11:48:20 EST, you write:
<< Am I supposed to be silent when a Cives in public provocates me??? His
provocation should be private, and in this case I would have answered it in
private. Is there right to an answer in NR, noble Senator and dear cives?
T. Horatius Atticus >>
I think this is a good example of what we don't need on our list. Since New
Rome is a micronation, and we allow membership to everybody, things like this
are going to occur. No one person's views are going to be 100% correct.
I've watch the debates, the political posterings with interest. This is how
(if we believe the Roman historians) Rome's political machine worked. I like
it. It opens a window on to period of history long disused. This is one of
the values of New Rome, in my opinion.
However I have had disagreements with several individuals on this list. But I
have always contacted them in private. Each person posting on this list has a
person--------m--------ddress. Mine is SFP55@-------- On other lists I've run, I
have always had the poster leave his e-mail address under his name so readers
can contact them, one on one. Perhaps we should all do this.
Last if you are attacted on this list (i.e. in public as Atticus says) don't
respond.
I don't believe any anyone here will think you less of a person if you don't,
and I know I myself will have a higher opinon of your self control.
Valete!
Q Fabius
sfp55@--------
|
| Subject: |
Fabius pro pace |
| From: |
"Fabio Incutti" incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:05:11 +0100 |
|
Ave quirites,
I'd like to spend a few words about the recent facts between Horatius and
Venator, even if I'll ignore the content of their mailings.
I consider NR an attempt to use the new technologies to abolish the
traditional borders of existing nations in order to create a broader concept
of nation based on the common sharing of ideals by its citizens.
It makes me feel sad to see that two citizens of NR disagree becouse of the
defense of their respective nationality. I believe that NR is not here to
decide if the USA are an imperialistic Empire or if Brazil is a mere colony
of the US. I have my personal feelings towards both the countries but I will
not reveal (here).
The freedom of speach is at the very deep base of NR but the respect of the
other citizens lies at at a deeper level. I'm sorry that our Constitution do
not say anything about respect (even if the point is underintended).
In the present situation, I see that the freedom of speach has been
considered prior than the respect and that both the parties have forgotten
that they are here to establish "NR reborn".
But, and this is more serious, they have forgotten that NR is not a jungle
and that we have laws. So, if anyone thinks that he has been offended, the
right thing to do is not to answer, but to ask for justice!
I do exhort the two of the citizens to settle amicably their dispute (in
private) or to ask for a judgement.
Moreover, I want to remind to my dear friend Horatius that he has not been
found guilty of anything, so there is no sense in resign from any public or
private office.
Thank you for your attention.
Valete,
Primus Fabius C.
----------------------------------------------------
Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:47:09 -0000 |
|
Vale!
>The Constitution was NOT changed. We simply passes a Senatus
>Consultum
Thank you for the remark.
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius v--------l@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 3:36 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
>
>Salvete Cives
>
>
>>Why did you keep absolute silence about the changing of the Constitution?
>
> The Constitution was NOT changed. We simply passes a Senatus
>Consultum that allowed Nova Roma to hold elections by a 'straight ballot'
>rather than through the Centuries, This First Year, just like every other
>decision, This First Year. Thus each citizen has their own vote, something
>that will not be so after the various Tribes and Centuries are formed. If
>you have any questions about the forming of these Comitiae contact the
>Censores.
> I will leave the rest for the Plebs to discuss, but I just wanted
to
>get this straight about the Constitution.
>
> Vale, L Equitius Cincinnatus, Praetor Urbanus
>
>>Why havn't you proved your honesty and ability as candidate for Tribune?
>>The motion was approved unanimously, which means that you voted YES!
>>Let alone my insanity! These facts were real and Germanicus has made them
>>public! I haven't heard no justification from you! I've only heard your
>>fellow Senators Palladius and Cincinnatus justifying the decision. You
also
>>have a great responsibility as candidate for Tribune, and as I said
before,
>>you lost your opportunity!
>>
>>Valete!
>>
>>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Sealing wax and rings |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:38:39 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 01:12:41 EST, you write:
<< Have you tried the Hallmark Gift Shops and some of the candle boutiques
like
Wicks 'n' Sticks? Both of those carry initial seals to use with sealing wax
-
and sometimes a few others. >>
Ah! I didn't even think to try those stores! Thanks!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:41:05 EST |
|
Salvete, Omnes,
One of the last things Nova Roma needs to see is "International" bickering...
hopefully this is a thread which can be put to rest with positive feelings on
all sides.
Nova Roma has NEVER been intended as simply a North American organization.
Anyone reading our materials should immediately see that Nova Roma was started
as an *International* Micronation, with Citizens in all parts of the world.
However, the basic infrastructure of Nova Roma was founded and is being
maintained in the United States. Because of this the original materials have
been written in English, and the main Nova Roma website is published in
English. Again it's important to remember that Nova Roma is still in it's
first year and there just simply weren't means to expand in all possible ways
right at the founding.
Still, one of the first orders of business upon the founding was to begin
establishing the various Provincia so that all Citizens may have local access
to Nova Roma. It's actually the Provincia that will allow situations with
translation, etc. be resolved on a practical level. Non-English speaking
Provincia will want to set up their own local infrastructure, with websites in
the language of their region... and surely this will be the means of ensuring
that all Citizens participate equally.
I don't know if it's a help, but there is actually a translating program for
French, German, Italian and Portugese on the Infoseek Website,
www.infoseek.com . It's possible to key in a website URL and have it translate
an entire page, and also simply type in text for direct translation. The
translations that come out of this are pretty weak, but at least they provide
a starting point to work from.
My personal hope is that Nova Roma will grow to such an extent that we'll HAVE
to get our material translated into every language in the world... including
Eskimo and Navajo! ;)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:57 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 00:32:26 EST, you write:
<< Actually Dex as time and manpower permits why not translate the
websight into as many of the more commonly used languages known- this is
an international organization and the more we get the word out that we
exist the better---- no harm done. Our websight is just a central focus
point for communications- eventually I think there will be many more
localized activities and hopefully even more participation from our
group in other pagan events, festivals, our own study groups, small
temples or places of worship, whatever. Translating our websight into
whatever is just fine but noone ever said it has to be done like
tommorrow either. One day at a time. >>
I can see your point. Again...I don't want to be elitist, I just don't want
to faction ourselves by language. And I don't want to see us go beyond our
limits too fast.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Cute |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:41:57 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 03:00:46 EST, you write:
<< No!!! Martha stewart has helped millions! >>
This is the same Martha Steward who instructed her viewers on how to make
mayonaisse for egg salad. And then glazed snearingly at the camera and said
"But for those of you less fortunate, store bought will do!"
She Must Die! String Her Up and Belt Her with Eggs!
--Dexippus
Antibellum Marthum Stewartum Disgustum
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
"Nathan Hicks" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:07:32 -0500 |
|
>From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
>
> "C'mon folks", let's accept the patterns. Let us all be christians,
> heterosexuals, English speakers. And why all this Roma thing? Roma is
> death! Let us honour the big, powerful, redemptor USA!
>
> Do you think I am a communist? Why, only because I am Brazilian and
deffend
> myself against imperialistic expressions?
What problem do you have with America? Dammit, don't you like apple pie?
Rusticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:03:03 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 09:03:04 EST, you write:
<< I wouldn't be surprised
if I saw the flag of the USA on the web page of NR. Can't you accept that
Roma isn't an north-american institution? If someone here has the wright to
claim the hereditas romana, this is the latin population/culture --
Portuguese, Italians, Spaniards and Brazilians.
I know everything is too easy when Elizabeth Taylor is Cleopatra and another
noth-american actor is Caesar. However NR is not, as far as I know,
Hollywood. >>
Ok...here we go....
First...maybe you should learn the history of Nova Roma. The founders were
American! Like it or not, they speak English. Is Nova Roma a north-american
instituion? But the use of english in all its documentation is due to the
fact that its founders are native (by birth) to the North American continent.
Now regarding who as claim to hereditas romana, DNA can only prove that beyond
a shadow of a doubt. Does my being of Italian heritage make me a hereditary
roman? Who knows...maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. Let's not get into that
discussion and further seperate the chasm that is dividing NR lately (just
look at some of these posts recently! Gods!)
<<let's accept the patterns. Let us all be christians,
heterosexuals, English speakers. And why all this Roma thing? Roma is death!
Let us honour the big, powerful, redemptor USA!>>
Well we're not all christians (thank the Gods), we're not all heterosexuals
(Thank the Goddess), and we're not all English speakers (apparently). But
where in the name of Mercurius do you get "let us honour the big, powerful,
redemptor USA". I don't know where you come from, Atticus, but if you are
trying to win points by blasting the USA, you won't do so here. Too many of
us are Americans and would probably not look well onto that. And for those of
us who are not Americans, I would hope that they would be as intolerant of
such approaches. Hey, it may be the in-thing around the rest of the world to
be burning American flags and cursing out the only world super power, but
let's not bring that stuff into Nova Roma. If you want to play the "my
country is better than yours" game, then maybe you should go somewhere else,
because it won't be tolerated here.
<<What would be the problem about Navaho if we had Navaho speakers among us in
NR (of course it would be unproductive, because this community, being
north-american citizens speak English)? I don't know what do Eskimos speak,
but if the grouth of NR is to be expected in this area I wouldn't hesitate
to support the idea.>>
My point here is that where do we draw the line? It is counter productive to
include all known languages into one organization. The term "organization"
implies unity and cohesion. Languages by their nature seperate. I am often
gripped with how people in our modern age are calling for greater cooperation
amongst nations and peoples but everyone wants to speak 10,000 different
languages. The backbone of unity is a common communication. Should that be
english? Who'se to say. The point is only that this world's history has seen
the dominance of the english language. Perhaps then linguists around the
world should develop a completely new language so no one has the upper hand
and we can all start at the same level. But until then, either go with what
we have (english as the dominant language of the planet) or find a way to
traverse to another parallel earth where another language dominates. {{hey,
if you find out how to do that, please let me know!}}}
<<I don't know how many of you think like Dexippus. Maybe I am in the wrong
pub; that can be easily resolved.>>
Atticus, don't make me out to be this insensitive, right-wing, elitist
monster. I'm just voicing concern that if we try to accommodate everyone's
native tongue, that we will in the end have a very hard time communicating and
holding together. Recent posts have indicated that while translations may
help to some degree, the official documents will remain to be the ones in
english (and latin once that's accomplished). I am by far not an "English
Only" advocate. But I do believe that we all must have joined Nova Roma after
visiting the home page (which is in English) and why someone would join
something they couldn't read is beyond my comprehension.
--Dexippus
"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:06:22 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 09:30:16 EST, you write:
<< As much as I like Dex, he was totally out of line. Of course he admitted
it was late and he was tired, but I found his comments offensive too. I
hope you realize that most of the US citizens in Nova Roma don't feel
that this is some sort of "American Imperialist" thing. I don't believe
Dex really feels that way either. >>
It is here that I will offer my apology for my initial post. Pythia is right
in her assumption that being tired and late in the evening, I was not fully
aware of how my words might be construed. So I apologize if I have offended
anyone. For those of you who know me, I am not an "American Imperialist".
<<I think the idea that individuals willing to translate our Constitution,
and any other documents into any language at all, is fabulous! I can
only believe that Dex imagined we would get bogged down in the sort of
minutae the Plebean candidates are engaging in. >>
Yes...another correct assumption.
--Dexippus
"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:10:36 -0500 (EST) |
|
In regard to the above subject, don't let your national pride overcome
the matter of history and the way things are currently. In the Roman
World the international language of commerce and diplomacy was Latin.
In the 16th, through the beginning of the nineteenth centuries the
language of commerce and diplomacy was French, and those who wished to
enter into those pursuits in the new country (United States) either
learned French or went to the wall.
In the present century the language of Commerce and diplomacy is
"English" not some dialog of the United States (which because of it's
size has several-not an enviable situation). Please remember that this
was not a national effort, but rather an international change which
occured over time, and could not have been manipulated by the English or
the Americans even had they wished to do so.
I have visited and lived in the countries that you have listed, and have
struggled to master the language of each in dealing with my needs, and
in all of those places the people were just great in helping me to help
myself. However in all those places Hollywood movies are shown with the
language of that country dubbed in place of "English" and that's what
anyone would expect. No one here is attempting to belittle the various
countries who have citizens who have joined Nova Roma. Your comments
regarding the Constitution and my country are disappointing, for the
simple reason, that culture bashing has no place in Nova Roma.
I am proud of my country, even with it's many faults, but I am proud
also to be able to say, that my years in Spain, and Portugal were well
spent and enjoyable, and my visits to the Azores and to Maderia were a
real adventure. (I have never been to cleaner cities or seen more
industrious people than the Portuguese. The French were a lot of fun
and the Italians were overwhelming in their kindness and generosity. In
Mexico, Columbia, Panama, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Netherlands, Canada (Even
Quebec), Greece, Turkey, Malta, Crete ad others too numerous to mention
I have enjoyed hugely my international friends, and through Nova Roma am
continuing to enjoy their generosity and their skills and knowledge.
Please, if you do not care for what I or others may say, let us work out
our differences on a personal level, one on one, and do not bring our
cultures into the argument. Every country in the world has problems of
some sort or another, and to dwell on those faults rather than to build
upon their strengths is to admit that unlike your countrymen in my
experience, we cannot overcome our predjudices and come to a common
understanding for the good of everyone in Nova Roma
Most Sincerely
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant;
Marcus Minucius Audens
(Citizen of the World-and extremely proud of that fact)
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:20:36 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 10:39:44 EST, you write:
<< Who made the this Holy Unchangeable Constitution? Are we talking about a
rule of organization or about the mosaic Law?
Only a "Simplicius Simplicissimus" (to be polite) could accept that such a
Constitution could be definitive.
>>
Okay...I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but if the plebes are fanning
their bonfires...hell, why not.
This "Holy Unchangeable Constitution" was created to hold this organization
together. Now I'm not familiar with Brazilian history...does your country
have a tendency to change it's constitution every third month? As an
American, I am proud to say that our constitution has remained relatively
unchanged in the 200 years of our existence (yes, amendments have been made,
but the government has stayed the same). I do think there is something to be
said about that whether you feel it is imperialism or not.
<<I didn't speak representing the Collegium. I spoke as a LATIN, trying to
express an opinion about the translation of this document you call
Constiution.>>
Ok...understood...but can we move beyond this and start thinking as Nova
Romans? Would it be productive if I started voicing my opinions as a gay,
italian-american? (all past jokes aside). When I speak on issues like this
it is as a citizen of Nova Roma, not as something else.
<<Do you think I am a communist? Why, only because I am Brazilian and deffend
myself against imperialistic expressions?>>
I don't think that was Venator's intention. I believe that he was bringing to
lite your apparent anti-Americanism and asking you seriously if you would have
been happier with the Soviet Union as the single world super-power or Imperial
China or Nazi Germany? It is something to think about...what if history had
been different. But hey, every empire falls. And the U.S. won't remain
forever the only dominant power on the planet. Maybe Brazil would like to
give it a try? But I'd rather give it to an underdog. Perhaps Australia
would like a shot?
<<I don't deserve this answer because I have NEVER said something
against your country.>>
Well, Atticus...in a way you have. "America the Great Satan" from a previous
post. "Let us honor the great America" or something sarcastically to that
affect in an even more recent post. I must say that I have taken a little
offense to this but haven't made a big deal out of it in order to have you
vent your frustration. But as I have said...let's move beyond the
nationalism...it has no place here in Nova Roma.
--Dexippus
"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:22:07 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-11-25 10:53:40 EST, you write:
<< Take this to Private Emails!! It has gotten personal! >>
In my humble opinion...this entire list has gotten "personal". Byzantine vs.
Rome, Constantine vs. Julian, Christians vs. Pagans, Candidates vs.
Candidates, Patricians vs. Plebes, Nationals vs. Nationals.....etc. etc. etc.
--Dexippus
"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
|
| Subject: |
Plebs and Patricians |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:30:25 -0500 (EST) |
|
My Dear;
I have noticed on several occasions in different places that
comments regarding the Plebs as a lesser class of people or pepe who did
not quite have the picture, or people who are in some way just one step
under the Patrician Class. This is a message of inquiry. Is the fact
that the only difference in Nova Roma between Patricians and Plebs the
fact of the joinig date?? This was explained to me by the Consul upon
my application to Nova Roma. If Plebs and Patricians are like the two
political parties in our countries today, and the titles bandied about
in a political sense, then I can live with that. If anyone thinks that
you ar superior as a Patrician because your application to Nova Roma
predated mine by a few months, then I would remind all Patricians who
have similar ideas that you are in my opinion dead wrong. Class
bashing, just as culture bashing has no place here.
My Plebian station, I was informed by the Senior Consul, had no real
meainng in Nova Roma and did not signify that there were any limitations
upon me in regard to that title. I would like to have that position
verified, as I do not feel that I am inferior to anyone. Not as clever,
handsome, intelligent, or beautiful (You will always win in that
category Dex) perhaps, but Inferior to No-one.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: translation |
| From: |
missmoon missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:36:28 -0500 |
|
C--------us622@-------- wrote:
>
> >
> My personal hope is that Nova Roma will grow to such an extent that we'll HAVE
> to get our material translated into every language in the world... including
> Eskimo and Navajo! ;)
>
Dudes:
I totally volunteer to like, translate the entire constitution into
Val-Speak. We like totally need this, I'm so sure. As IF.
-- Flavia Claudia Buffy
|
| Subject: |
election procedures |
| From: |
missmoon missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:45:20 -0500 |
|
In keeping with the style of campaigning we've seen lately (which is
pretty much in keeping with the old Roman declamatory style), my cousin
Claudia Aprica and I would like to propose the following changes to the
election procedure of Tribune Plebis.
** No votes allowed. You guys are gonna have to mudwrestle for it.**
Not only will this save time, but it will also raise funds for the
Treasury by allowing us to sell tickets and tasty beverages. Not to
mention the high amusement factor.
All candidates will report to the Circus Maximus on election day, where
the Claudii (in honor of our mudslinging ancestors) will provide the
requisite Mud Pit. Last man standing is Trib Pleb. In case of a tie, the
decision will be divined by the Augurs.
May the muddiest man win! Bona Fortuna!
-- Flavia Claudia Juliana
|
| Subject: |
Issues |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:54:45 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
Really, there is nothing personal about discussing Emperor Constantine, is
there? A discussion does not have to be come "us vs. them" over every
single issue, does it? Also, issues discussed in this Forum, I am fairly
certain, do not generally represent threats to the foundations of this
organization.
It is election season, and I don't see any reason why candidates should not
argue about their agenda; it is not particularly dangerous or offensive, to
my mind anyway, if their exchanges are heated and aggressive. I do not
usually enjoy heavy negative campaigning, and I sure would not want people
assassinating my character or making painful jokes at my expense; I do not
support or condone that sort of behavior.
At the same time, people disagree wherever and whenever they congregate. I
for one shall continue to form opinions and communicate them in contexts
where they have relevance, including in this Forum.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>In my humble opinion...this entire list has gotten "personal". Byzantine
vs.
>Rome, Constantine vs. Julian, Christians vs. Pagans, Candidates vs.
>Candidates, Patricians vs. Plebes, Nationals vs. Nationals.....etc. etc.
etc.
>
>--Dexippus
>
|
| Subject: |
Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was Anglocentricity??) |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:07:42 -0600 |
|
Salvete all!!!!
As my mother often said "You WILL be nice or I will kick your ________
(insert appropriate body part)!!"
Y'all need to chill!!!! Maybe we should simply make up a NEW language
and everyone can quit this petty 'official language' BS. It ain't gonna
get done right this minute regardless.
In the meantime, I am forwarding this to EVERYBODY!!!! Smile and laugh
and be happy and play nice. 'Cause if I hafta get up and waddle over
there........:-(
PEACE!!!!! (spoken in deep homy voice <G>)
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: mater2romani@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
To: amethystcrystallight@--------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:40:02 -0600
Subject: Fw: [PP] FW: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...
Message-ID: 19981125.124039.-65969.0.Mater2Romani@--------
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A.I.Crystallina (10/13/68) a.k.a Crys
P.I.Terrelina (3/31/97) a.k.a Terry
Lapis Stone (due February) a.k.a Lapis
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
--------- Forwarded message ----------
Fro--------Jan Curran" ivydruid@--------
To: ivydruid@--------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:54:44 -0500
Subject: [PP] FW: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...
Message-ID: <000c01be1894$4d891b10$63b28018@--------
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ONE & ALL!!!
Things that are said @ THANKSGIVING dinner but aren't really meant how
they sound....
"Whew, that's one terrific spread!"
"I'm in the mood for a little dark meat."
"Tying the legs together keeps the inside moist."
"Talk about a huge breast!"
"It's Cool Whip time!"
"If I don't undo my pants, I'll burst!"
"Are you ready for seconds yet?"
"Are you going to come again next time?"
"It's a little dry, do you still want to eat it?"
"Just wait your turn, you'll get some!"
"Don't play with your meat."
"Just spread the legs open & stuff it in."
"Do you think you'll be able to handle all these people at
once?"
"I didn't expect everyone to come at once!"
"You still have a little bit on your chin."
"Use a nice smooth stroke when you whip it."
"How long will it take after you stick it in?"
"You'll know it's ready when it pops up."
"Wow, I didn't think I could handle all of that!"
"How many are coming?"
"That's the biggest one I've ever seen!"
"Just lay back & take it easy...I'll do the rest."
"How long do I beat it before it's ready?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what Avery cooked up for the holidays
Free software & Free holiday clipart
<a href="http://ads.egroups.com/click/122/0" target="_top" >http://ads.egroups.com/click/122/0</a>
Free Web-based e-mail groups -- <a href="http://www.eGroups.com" target="_top" >http://www.eGroups.com</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:07:40 -0500 (EST) |
|
I can live with that idea. Not because it is the English language, but
rather, some version must remain the "Official" version, so that if we
see the need to amend the constitution some copy will be the copy to
refer to.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:16:01 -0500 (EST) |
|
I don't know about the Garbage factor, but I agree that our current
Constitution in English should be the "Official Version" for the current
period. The suggestion by our Most Honored Senior Consul in regard to
the on-web translating services sounds like a great way for the
Praeators of Provinces to immediately begin the dissolving of the
language barrier. Even if it is a "weak" translation it is better than
nothing. I urge the Provincial Praetors to review this technical
offering in order to get our onelist to the greatest number of our "out
of U.S." members as possible.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Esperanto |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:25:19 -0500 (EST) |
|
I believe that such an International Language was invented and
promulgated internationally some time ago. As I undertand it the
language (subject) was based on Spanish which is probably one of the
easiest to learn and one of the most beautiful to speak. Other
languages were utilized in the make up of this new language, and many
people in the world have learned it, and get together to speak it and
work in it with other countries. It has not been as successful as some
had hoped, but it has dissoved many language barriers in areas when
different speaking peoples were determined to wor together for a common
good.
M.Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin |
| From: |
Masterofhistory masterofhistory@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:58:17 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvere Quirites!
Claudii and company present the event of the year! Election by
mudwrestling. Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY December 13th at the Circus
Maximus 7:00pm. Thrill to the exploits of the men who would be
Tribune! This is a hard-hitting, action-packed battle roy-al you'll
be telling your grandchildren about. We're selling you the whole seat
- but you're only gonna need the edge! If you miss this, you better
be dead! Or in jail!
I'll be wearing a pair of neon green jambs I've been saving for an
occasion such as this. See you there.
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Candidate for Muddy Tribune of the People
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:59:50 -0500 |
|
I hope (!) that the responses of M. Cassius Julianus can be taken as
representative of most Nova Roman opinion on the matter of language and
translation. It is understandable that English should be NR's first
language given that NR was founded from the USA and as yet the majority of
our citizens are in N. American provinciae - but the question whether
english is 'the new latin' remains a matter of opinions, not facts, and
even some states of the US use Spanish as well as English in official
leaflets and adverts. From this side of the Atlantic, as from south of the
Rio Grande, there doesn't seem to be much sign of other languages
"withering away". It may be more practical to carry modern language
translations on the sites of appropriate provinciae, with links from the
main website. But we certainly ought to have a latin version if & when we
can!
On a possibly related matter which may also relate to the campaigners for
tribune - public abuse and insults were in roman law "iniuria", a delict
(tort) carrying a liability to heavy damages! ...
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: Roma=Death? |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:25:12 -0500 |
|
T. Horatius Atticus wrote:
> I know everything is too easy when Elizabeth Taylor is Cleopatra and another
> noth-american actor is Caesar.
I must have seen the wrong movie. I thought it was that Welsh guy.
>
> "C'mon folks", let's accept the patterns. Let us all be christians,
> heterosexuals, English speakers. And why all this Roma thing? Roma is death!
Uh...this is NOVA ROMA? We're a micronation devoted to the restoration
of the Roman virtues and Religio Romana? Going to be kind of hard to do
that without mentioning Roma....
Are you SURE you read the Website?
-- a very confused
Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:31:26 -0500 |
|
Masterofhistory wrote:
>
> From: Masterofhistor--------sterofhistor--------..
>
> Salvere Quirites!
>
> Claudii and company present the event of the year! Election by
> mudwrestling. Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY December 13th at the Circus
> Maximus 7:00pm. Thrill to the exploits of the men who would be
> Tribune! This is a hard-hitting, action-packed battle roy-al you'll
> be telling your grandchildren about. We're selling you the whole seat
> - but you're only gonna need the edge! If you miss this, you better
> be dead! Or in jail!
>
> I'll be wearing a pair of neon green jambs I've been saving for an
> occasion such as this. See you there.
>
> Avidius Tullius Callidus
> Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
> Candidate for Muddy Tribune of the People
>
>
Oh dear. Did we forget to tell you that you have to be nekkid?
We sold lotsa tickets already when we announced that part. Especially to
the Vestal Virgins, who bought all those primo seats up front and paid
top dollar.
-- The Claudii
|
| Subject: |
language |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:33:44 -0500 |
|
I ote-vay or-fay ig-pay atin-lay or-fay official-ay anguage-lay!
Especially in light of the mudwrestling.
- Avia-Flay Audia-Clay
|
| Subject: |
Re: Translation of constitution |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:45:45 -0500 (EST) |
|
Having made reply to my concerns, and explaining your thoughts on the
matter, you may count on my support. I find the whole idea facinating
and hope that in fruitation that the project will open up the possessors
of other languages to join us with their views of this task (NR). I
liked the idea that Cassius forwarded about the net translatio service.
Even though it is described as a weak translation I feel confident that
determined use will improve the system, and I want to get as many people
as possible involved.
I am particularl interested in the Russian langage discussion, because
as my old Spanish Professor told me, Russian is one of the few languages
that is more difficult to learn than English. My wife has a smattering
of Russian from home studies, but I am hopelessly tied to English.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Fwd: [hellenicpagan] Re: Oceania] |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:01:15 -0500 (EST) |
|
Hi in return! Nova Roma is a micro-nation dedicating to preservng the
ancient models of all aspects of Rome (except the conquest aspect) and
are pleased to have this chance to communicate with us. Thank you for
your contact!
I am really not a diplomat, so this greeting will be stated in my own
rough terms, but we are an institution that welcomes all such contacts.
I personnally am interested in the Greek Navy of the 1st and 2nd century
B.C. and how the naval archetechture evolved into the Roman and
Carthiginian Navies of the later period. Any reference or naval
pictures etc. that you may have would be welcomed.
Recipes for special greek period dishes would be welcomed, as well as
any information which was later assimulated into the Roman Culture.
Welcome to the World of Nova Roma!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune for Military Architechture and Cartography
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6 |
| From: |
FJGA@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:57:14 EST |
|
Amazing how your opinions always seem to become that of "the people". Sounds
rather like that of a demagogue now doesn't it?
As to why I didn't prematurely explain everything to everyone, as I've said
several dozen times to you (so please read this and accept it, this has gotten
rather old and stupid) Germanicus jumped the gun and conclusions and started a
panic. This is a TEMPORARY measure for this years elections only! I've told
you this several times so stop acting like a fool please.
Metellus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collegium Advocatorum |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:14:31 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/25/98 10:16:11 AM Central Standard Time,
C--------us622@-------- writes:
> I personally find the Collegium Advocatorum to be an excellent idea! From
the
> beginning Nova Roma has been intended as a truly International
organization.
> By definition this means that there will be many folks who have no
knowledge
> of English (by default the language our main website is in), and who
> therefore
> might have difficulty in taking full advantage of everything Nova Roma has
> to
> offer.
I've been giving this some thought, and while my initial response was
positive, I wavering now. I think I'd prefer for it to be a little more
restrictive. Maybe a Collegium Vernaculorum, whose sole duties would be
translating official documents (and posts, when requested) into other
languages.
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:30:29 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/25/98 10:35:08 AM Central Standard Time,
flavia@-------- w--------s:
> However, when
> I often read these heated debates concerning subjective issues, I
>
>
>
Freeze up? We're waiting in antici--------------
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: Cute |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:45:06 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/25/98 12:54:48 PM Central Standard Time,
Dexippus@-------- writes:
> String Her Up and Belt Her with Eggs!
What an interesting image - a belt made of eggs - boiled and dyed, or plain?
Personally, I think Marthat Stewart would choose a tie dyed egg pattern in
mauves and yellows.
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:58:20 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 11/25/98 1:24:13 PM Centr--------t--------rd Time, Dexippus@--------
writes:
>
> In my humble opinion...this entire list has gotten "personal".
'Xcuse me? I can name several people on this list who haven't done that. But
then, that'd be personal, right? 8->
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: Anglocentricity |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:56:33 EST |
|
>
> >From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------
Why, only because I am Brazilian and
> deffend
> > myself against imperialistic expressions?
>
Ummmmm - what are "imperialistic expressions"? Aren't they expressions made
by an imperialist? And if that's so, then any comments made by a Nova Roman
would by definition be imperialistic - because Nova Roma is an empire - right?
And, therefore, what's wrong with that? Aren't we all - including Brazillian
members - Nova Roman imperialists? (Don't you love fallacious circular
reasoning?)
Speaking imperialistically
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Apologia ad Atticus |
| From: |
Venator amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:59:41 -0800 |
|
Salve Titus Horatius Atticus et Avete Omnes;
I wish to apologize, sometimes my thoughts do not come out in my
writting as well ordered or thought out as they should. I meant no ad
hominum attack and do wish to profer an olive branch between us.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Fwd: [hellenicpagan] Re: Oceania] |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:14:20 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/25/98 5:01:27 PM Central Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:
> Hi in return! Nova Roma is a micro-nation dedicating to preservng the
> ancient models of all aspects of Rome (except the conquest aspect)
Uuummmmm - I thought we were SUPPOSED to conquer new members so our proud and
glorious Nation could grow. Waiting for babies to be born takes WAY too long.
I say, let's go out and CONQUER a few small towns and liberate them from their
humdrum lives so they can support our mighty nation - NOVA ROMA!
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: (humor) conquest |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:59:06 EST |
|
In a message dated 11/25/98 7:37:59 PM Central Standard Time,
p--------@-------- writes:
> Using as weapons our intelligence, charm and feeling for history, of
> course... ;)
But of course! And Dex's beauty, too!
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: (humor) conquest |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:08:06 -0600 |
|
On Wed, 25 Nov 98 20:37:50 -0000 p-------- p--------@-------- writes:
>From: p-------- p--------@--------
>
>Quoth the ever-thoughtful Zonara:
>
>>Uuummmmm - I thought we were SUPPOSED to conquer new members so our
>proud and
>>glorious Nation could grow. Waiting for babies to be born takes WAY
>too
>>long.
>
>I expect Amethystia agrees, along about now!
YOU SAID IT SISTERS!!!!!!!!!! And I do believe I mentioned I will NOT be
populating Nova Roma all by myself!! Some of my Roman sisters can have a
few hundred hours of nausea, backache, insomnia, mood swings, etc. Don't
worry about love ladies, a Roman volunteer (Gentlemen??????? Right this
way, we have magazines AND videos......) and a turkey baster and your in
business (I wish *I* had done it that way!!! <G>)!!
>
>>I say, let's go out and CONQUER a few small towns and liberate them
>from
>>their
>>humdrum lives so they can support our mighty nation - NOVA ROMA!
>
>Using as weapons our intelligence, charm and feeling for history, of
>
>course... ;)
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
I volunteer my little town(OK, it's not MINE per se, but it COULD
be)!!!!!!!! This place is about as humdrum as it gets!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Fwd: [hellenicpagan] Re: Oceania] |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:12:28 -0500 |
|
Nodigio@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Nodigio@--------
>
> In a message dated 11/25/98 5:01:27 PM Central Standard Time,
> jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:
>
> > Hi in return! Nova Roma is a micro-nation dedicating to preservng the
> > ancient models of all aspects of Rome (except the conquest aspect)
>
> Uuummmmm - I thought we were SUPPOSED to conquer new members so our proud and
> glorious Nation could grow. Waiting for babies to be born takes WAY too long.
> I say, let's go out and CONQUER a few small towns and liberate them from their
> humdrum lives so they can support our mighty nation - NOVA ROMA!
>
> Secunda Floria Zonara
>
All RIGHT! Start with Salem, MA! You can't possibly get more humdrum
than here! Being conquered would be a welcome change.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: (humor) conquest |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:14:00 -0500 |
|
pjane wrote:
>
> From: p-------- p--------@--------
>
> Quoth the ever-thoughtful Zonara:
>
> >Uuummmmm - I thought we were SUPPOSED to conquer new members so our proud and
> >glorious Nation could grow. Waiting for babies to be born takes WAY too
> >long.
>
> I expect Amethystia agrees, along about now!
>
> >I say, let's go out and CONQUER a few small towns and liberate them from
> >their
> >humdrum lives so they can support our mighty nation - NOVA ROMA!
>
> Using as weapons our intelligence, charm and feeling for history, of
> course... ;)
>
No. Let's use the Triumvirate Stoogiae offense...cream pies in the face!
Nyukus, Nyukus.
-- FC
|
| Subject: |
Speaking of mood swings........ |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:13:24 -0600 |
|
My dear, dear Romans,
I have been a bit on edge these days and my response to the debate
was.....uncharacteristic (?).
I'm torry!!!
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:07:42 -0600 amethystcrystallight@--------
(Amethystia I Crystallina) writes:
>As my mother often said "You WILL be nice or I will kick your
>________
>(insert appropriate body part)!!"
>
>
>Y'all need to chill!!!! Maybe we should simply make up a NEW
>language
>and everyone can quit this petty 'official language' BS. It ain't
>gonna
>get done right this minute regardless.
>
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was Anglocentricity??) |
| From: |
Venator amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:26:14 -0800 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
Amethystia I Crystallina wrote:
>
> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
>
> Salvete all!!!!
>
> As my mother often said "You WILL be nice or I will kick your ________
> (insert appropriate body part)!!"
>
> Y'all need to chill!!!! Maybe we should simply make up a NEW language
> and everyone can quit this petty 'official language' BS. (SNIP)
I have found Amethystia to be a person I like and from whom I have come
to expect good sense. How about Esperanto as an official language
alongside Latin, as well as the current Lingua Franca of English?
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|
| Subject: |
Conquering New Members |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:40:47 -0500 (EST) |
|
Most Honored Romani!!!
Senior Consul, Augers, and others;
Well why didn't you say so earlier!!!!! Here sits your Military Tribune
with little to do but build models in my own workshop because we don'r
have any land to build real one's on, and drawing maps of the lands that
we don't have. We just had an offer from the XXivth Legion Commander in
PA. to assist in such!
For crying out loud let's get moving! Dex can you whip up a good augery
for this campagn, and If I can pry our Senior Consul away from his busy
schedule to provide me with the required Formal Military Command
Authority, I will gladly round up as many potential members as my 5 1/2
acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are you up
for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so new
members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio Commander's
Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much larger
than we were!!!!!!!
Vale Most Honored and Venerated Romani!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Conquering New Members |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:08:57 -0500 |
|
James Mathews wrote:
> acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are you up
> for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so new
> members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio Commander's
> Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much larger
> than we were!!!!!!!
>
As was discussed in the Chat Room, it depends on the size of the Gladius
and how well the Legionary wields it.
I, of course, have no knowledge of the matter.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Conquering New Members |
| From: |
"L.Cornelius Sulla" Alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:25:40 -0800 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Claud----------------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:11 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conquering New Members
>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
>James Mathews wrote:
>
>> acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are you up
>> for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so new
>> members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio Commander's
>> Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much larger
>> than we were!!!!!!!
>>
>As was discussed in the Chat Room, it depends on the size of the Gladius
>and how well the Legionary wields it.
>
>I, of course, have no knowledge of the matter.
Yeah..sure Ms. Carter..I have sinned in my heart..lol...like we all believe
you! :)
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
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>
|
