Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Anglocentricity
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:45:01 +0000

T. Horatius Atticus wrote:
>
> From: "T. Horatius Atti-------- esteves@--------

>
> I don't know how many of you think like Dexippus. Maybe I am in the wrong
> pub; that can be easily resolved.
>
> T. Horatius Atticus

Salve Atticus,

As much as I like Dex, he was totally out of line. Of course he admitted
it was late and he was tired, but I found his comments offensive too. I
hope you realize that most of the US citizens in Nova Roma don't feel
that this is some sort of "American Imperialist" thing. I don't believe
Dex really feels that way either.

I think the idea that individuals willing to translate our Constitution,
and any other documents into any language at all, is fabulous! I can
only believe that Dex imagined we would get bogged down in the sort of
minutae the Plebean candidates are engaging in. In any event, I hope you
won't "change pubs".

For what it is worth, I give you my apology. I wish I could give it to
you in Portuguese, or better yet, in Latin, but as I cannot speak either
of those languages, I am limited in a way that hopefully Nova Roma will
not be.

In peace, Pythia

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Subject:	Re: Roma=Death?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:56:33 +0000

Claudia wrote:
<snip>
> > "C'mon folks", let's accept the patterns. Let us all be christians,
> > heterosexuals, English speakers. And why all this Roma thing? Roma is death!
>
> Uh...this is NOVA ROMA? We're a micronation devoted to the restoration
> of the Roman virtues and Religio Romana? Going to be kind of hard to do
> that without mentioning Roma....
>
> Are you SURE you read the Website?
>
> -- a very confused
> Flavia Claudia

Hoo boy...am I the only one who understood that this was an attempt at
sarcasm?
I would bet the farm that this is not Atticus' actual belief. There has
been a complete misunderstanding, here...and lets not let it grow any
further!

in Concord, Pythia
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Subject:	Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:22:37 -0000

Salvete omnes!

Dear Senator Metellus,

>As to why I didn't prematurely explain everything to everyone, as I've said
>several dozen times to you (so please read this and accept it, this has
gotten
>rather old and stupid) Germanicus jumped the gun and conclusions and
started a
>panic. This is a TEMPORARY measure for this years elections only! I've told
>you this several times so stop acting like a fool please.
That temporary measure was not simply ANY measure... It was a measure having
to do with the ELECTIONS!! More! Those who voted it were at the same time
CANDIDATES for the elections!!!!
My point is: the other candidates and the people had no opportunity of
telling how they wanted to be ellected, how they wanted to VOTE! This was
the previledge of only 3 candidates! One of them was YOU.
Do you think it is insanity to have demanded an immediate explanation -
which you unfourtunately did not give unlike your fellow Senators -, at
least to me and Avidius Tullius Callidus! Now you call me insane and
demagogue!
But you are right! Right now, I cannot ask for explanations! It's too late!

I just want you to admit that you failed as candidate for Tribune of the
Plebs, and I repeat, for not giving the explanations that your rival
candidates and the people deserved!!!!!!! This would be the honest thing for
you to do!

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
To: amg <amg>; <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6

>Amazing how your opinions always seem to become that of "the people".
Sounds
>rather like that of a demagogue now doesn't it?
>
>As to why I didn't prematurely explain everything to everyone, as I've said
>several dozen times to you (so please read this and accept it, this has
gotten
>rather old and stupid) Germanicus jumped the gun and conclusions and
started a
>panic. This is a TEMPORARY measure for this years elections only! I've told
>you this several times so stop acting like a fool please.
>
>Metellus
>


Subject:	Solar cults....
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:41:41 -0000

Salvete omnes!

I think that the Nova Roma Web page is lacking in what concerns solar cults such as the Sol Indigites and the later (time of Aurelian) monotheism of Sol Invictus.

Sol Invictus was a monotheist religion created by Emperor Aurelian based on a sincretism between Sol-Apollo-Mithras. Its 'Christmas' was on December 25th (winter solstice) when Sol ressurrected. This was also the date of Mithras' ascension to the heavens after coming to Earth. (It should be noted that this date was adopted by the Christians in order to celebrate their Christmas).

I propose Sol Invictus to be accepted as part of the official Religio Romana. Like this we will be also paying homage to one of the most competent Emperors: Julian. In fact Emperor Julian was monotheist and his God was precisely the Sol Invictus.

If my proposal is accepted, it will not be in vain, as I - if my fellow citizens and the Collegium Pontificum approves - offer myself to the the a priest.


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:44:54 -0000

P.S.

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo <amg>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:38 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Solar cults....

Salvete omnes!

I think that the Nova Roma Web page is lacking in what concerns solar cults such as the Sol Indigites and the later (time of Aurelian) monotheism of Sol Invictus.

Sol Invictus was a monotheist religion created by Emperor Aurelian based on a sincretism between Sol-Apollo-Mithras. Its 'Christmas' was on December 25th (winter solstice) when Sol ressurrected. This was also the date of Mithras' ascension to the heavens after coming to Earth. (It should be noted that this date was adopted by the Christians in order to celebrate their Christmas).

I propose Sol Invictus to be accepted as part of the official Religio Romana. Like this we will be also paying homage to one of the most competent Emperors: Julian. In fact Emperor Julian was monotheist and his God was precisely the Sol Invictus.

If my proposal is accepted, it will not be in vain, as I - if my fellow citizens and the Collegium Pontificum approves - offer myself to the the a priest.


Subject:	Re: Plebs and Patricians
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:02 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 2:30:51 PM EST, jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

<< I have noticed on several occasions in different places that
comments regarding the Plebs as a lesser class of people or pepe who did
not quite have the picture, or people who are in some way just one step
under the Patrician Class. This is a message of inquiry. Is the fact
that the only difference in Nova Roma between Patricians and Plebs the
fact of the joinig date?? >>

Well Audens, you are very much correct. The only difference between Plebeian
and Patrician here in Nova Roma is the joining date. As an incentive to join
early, those of us who did were awarded "Patrician" status. It's just a title
thing...has no real sway here in Nova Roma. Yep...class bashing as well as
culture bashing has no place here.

<<<Not as clever, handsome, intelligent, or beautiful (You will always win in
that
category Dex) >>>

Well thank you, sweetie! But you're beatiful too! : )

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: translation
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:51:10 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 2:44:12 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< Dudes:
I totally volunteer to like, translate the entire constitution into
Val-Speak. We like totally need this, I'm so sure. As IF.
>>

Like...ya know..I like totally suggested this like oh so long ago. But like
Germi didn't take me...like, ya know...totally seriously. I mean...GOD...ya
know?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Vestals and society
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:56:37 -0500

L.Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>
> From: "L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@--------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Claud----------------oon@--------
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:11 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conquering New Members
>
> >From: Claud----------------oon@--------
> >
> >James Mathews wrote:
> >
> >> acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are you up
> >> for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so new
> >> members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio Commander's
> >> Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much larger
> >> than we were!!!!!!!
> >>
> >As was discussed in the Chat Room, it depends on the size of the Gladius
> >and how well the Legionary wields it.
> >
> >I, of course, have no knowledge of the matter.
>
> Yeah..sure Ms. Carter..I have sinned in my heart..lol...like we all believe
> you! :)
>
Hmmmmm.mmm... might be a good time to post my research on the Vestal
Order and the matter of chastity and thier standing in Roman society.
Remember, these were NOT Catholic nuns and should not be judged by those
restrictive standards. They were Patrician girls from rich families,
they were not cut off from society, and went out as they pleased,
proceded by a lictor, even to fancy dinner parties and to the Games. In
fact, they had reserved seats in front near the Emperor(in Imperial
times) or the Consuls (in Republican times). Great seats were a real
perk to being a Vestal!

Many were politically active behind the scenes and used the power of
their families and friends sometimes to Machiavellian extent. If the
current Virgo Maxima was weak, sometimes the stronger Vestals controlled
her decisions. The person of a Vestal was inviolate, but she wasn't
blind, deaf, mute - or stupid. Many of the Vestals were strong-willed,
outspoken and sophisticated. Just because they didn't engage in sex
didn't mean they didn't know about it. The Romans were not loose
morally, but they did have a fairly healthy attitude toward sex. Any
society that produces those little door-bells shaped like phalluses, and
with a Priapus by every door, couldn't have been terribly repressed.
Puritanism hadn't been invented yet -- proof that the Romans were
certainly luckier than WE are!

Plus, the Vestals had to listen to the many woes of married women
complaining about thier husbands -- or bragging, as the case may have
been. Must have been like Melrose Place around the old Domus Vestales!
Vestals got to hear all the dirt!

Although a Vestal could marry after her 30 years were up, they rarely
did so. I can't possibly prove this assertion, BUT...privately, after
reading research on women confined for long periods with only other
women for company (such as in harems where many of the women may have
never even seen the Sultan, much less gone to bed with him), I think
that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG time,
folks. Must have been some white knuckles clutching the Arena seats
while watching those Games, too.

-- Flavia Claudia
Virgo Maxima, and keepin' her hands to herself


Subject:	Re: election procedures
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:01:58 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 2:52:41 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< my cousin
Claudia Aprica and I would like to propose the following changes to the
election procedure of Tribune Plebis.

** No votes allowed. You guys are gonna have to mudwrestle for it.**

Not only will this save time, but it will also raise funds for the
Treasury by allowing us to sell tickets and tasty beverages. Not to
mention the high amusement factor.
>>

I'll pay money to see that! Men in mud...ooooooooo what a turn on!

Hey Flavia...where's my Eagle?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Issues
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:03:31 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 3:00:04 PM EST, rmerullo@-------- writes:

<< Really, there is nothing personal about discussing Emperor Constantine, is
there? A discussion does not have to be come "us vs. them" over every
single issue, does it? Also, issues discussed in this Forum, I am fairly
certain, do not generally represent threats to the foundations of this
organization. >>

no...but it just seems like every issue turns into a heated debate. I am so
looking forward to Pax

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was Anglocentricity??)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:04:44 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 3:07:06 PM EST, amethystcrystallight@--------
writes:

<< In the meantime, I am forwarding this to EVERYBODY!!!! Smile and laugh
and be happy and play nice. 'Cause if I hafta get up and waddle over
there........:-(
>>

Ooooooo...Girl! Don't mess with mama! : )

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:06:47 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 3:57:32 PM EST, masterofhistor--------.. writes:

<< Claudii and company present the event of the year! Election by
mudwrestling. Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY December 13th at the Circus
Maximus 7:00pm. Thrill to the exploits of the men who would be
Tribune! This is a hard-hitting, action-packed battle roy-al you'll
be telling your grandchildren about. We're selling you the whole seat
- but you're only gonna need the edge! If you miss this, you better
be dead! Or in jail! >>

And it is a battle to the death, right?

--Dexippus
<<blood thirsty mud sports!>>


Subject:	Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:09:28 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 4:34:15 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< Oh dear. Did we forget to tell you that you have to be nekkid?
We sold lotsa tickets already when we announced that part. Especially to
the Vestal Virgins, who bought all those primo seats up front and paid
top dollar. >>

But they're still standing behind me! Back off Girls! Chastity-holders get
sloppy seconds!

--Dexippus
<<blood thirsty mud sports!>>


Subject:	Re: Anglocentricity
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:16:16 -0000

Salve Dexippe!

>In my humble opinion...this entire list has gotten "personal". Byzantine
vs.
>Rome, Constantine vs. Julian, Christians vs. Pagans, Candidates vs.
>Candidates, Patricians vs. Plebes, Nationals vs. Nationals.....etc. etc.
etc.
Ahahahah! Good one! Specially the Candidates vs Candidates! Don't worry. The
war between candidates (at least for Tribune of the Plebs) has no personal
aims!

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Dexippus@-------- Dexippus@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 7:24 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Anglocentricity

>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-25 10:53:40 EST, you write:
>
><< Take this to Private Emails!! It has gotten personal! >>
>
>
>In my humble opinion...this entire list has gotten "personal". Byzantine
vs.
>Rome, Constantine vs. Julian, Christians vs. Pagans, Candidates vs.
>Candidates, Patricians vs. Plebes, Nationals vs. Nationals.....etc. etc.
etc.
>
>--Dexippus
>
>"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:19:14 -0000

Vale!

>Just because they didn't engage in sex
>didn't mean they didn't know about it.
Well, that is not quite true... The rules do no say that they couldn't
engage in lesbian sex! =)

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Claud----------------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 3:06 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Vestals and society

>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
>L.Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>>
>> From: "L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@--------
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:11 PM
>> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conquering New Members
>>
>> >From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>> >
>> >James Mathews wrote:
>> >
>> >> acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are you up
>> >> for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so new
>> >> members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio Commander's
>> >> Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much larger
>> >> than we were!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >As was discussed in the Chat Room, it depends on the size of the Gladius
>> >and how well the Legionary wields it.
>> >
>> >I, of course, have no knowledge of the matter.
>>
>> Yeah..sure Ms. Carter..I have sinned in my heart..lol...like we all
believe
>> you! :)
>>
>Hmmmmm.mmm... might be a good time to post my research on the Vestal
>Order and the matter of chastity and thier standing in Roman society.
>Remember, these were NOT Catholic nuns and should not be judged by those
>restrictive standards. They were Patrician girls from rich families,
>they were not cut off from society, and went out as they pleased,
>proceded by a lictor, even to fancy dinner parties and to the Games. In
>fact, they had reserved seats in front near the Emperor(in Imperial
>times) or the Consuls (in Republican times). Great seats were a real
>perk to being a Vestal!
>
>Many were politically active behind the scenes and used the power of
>their families and friends sometimes to Machiavellian extent. If the
>current Virgo Maxima was weak, sometimes the stronger Vestals controlled
>her decisions. The person of a Vestal was inviolate, but she wasn't
>blind, deaf, mute - or stupid. Many of the Vestals were strong-willed,
>outspoken and sophisticated. Just because they didn't engage in sex
>didn't mean they didn't know about it. The Romans were not loose
>morally, but they did have a fairly healthy attitude toward sex. Any
>society that produces those little door-bells shaped like phalluses, and
>with a Priapus by every door, couldn't have been terribly repressed.
>Puritanism hadn't been invented yet -- proof that the Romans were
>certainly luckier than WE are!
>
>Plus, the Vestals had to listen to the many woes of married women
>complaining about thier husbands -- or bragging, as the case may have
>been. Must have been like Melrose Place around the old Domus Vestales!
>Vestals got to hear all the dirt!
>
>Although a Vestal could marry after her 30 years were up, they rarely
>did so. I can't possibly prove this assertion, BUT...privately, after
>reading research on women confined for long periods with only other
>women for company (such as in harems where many of the women may have
>never even seen the Sultan, much less gone to bed with him), I think
>that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
>developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
>of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
>that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG time,
>folks. Must have been some white knuckles clutching the Arena seats
>while watching those Games, too.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
> Virgo Maxima, and keepin' her hands to herself
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: language
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:11:04 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 4:37:02 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<>

Ierce-fay! I-ay elieve-bay is-thay olves-say e-thay oblem-pray!

--Exxipus-day


Subject:	Re: (humor) conquest
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:18:26 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/25/98 9:01:37 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

<< But of course! And Dex's beauty, too! >>

All fall before the beauty of Damianus Lucianus Dexippus -- Divus Maximus
Extremus!

--Me : )


Subject:	Re: Cute
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:14:53 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/25/98 7:47:14 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

<< Personally, I think Marthat Stewart would choose a tie dyed egg pattern in
mauves and yellows. >>

And ya know she has a recipe for the dyes!

--Dexippus
Antibellum Marthum Stewartum Disgustum


Subject:	Re: Attention Plebeans Election Posting #6
From:	FJGA@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:17:12 EST

I can't decide whether you are simply a fool or a person who is so pathetic
that they need to fight with everyone constantly. However I can understand one
fact, you are so desperate to win you will rant and rave continually until
someone listens to your tantrums.

I hope all of by fellow Plebians will read these exchange and understand that
the lunatic gentleman from Lusitania will undoubtably continue to behave this
way if he is elected anything higher than street cleaner. One of the key
facets to NovaRoma is a modicum of dignitas. From this gentleman's attitude,
rants, tantrums and attacks he's proven that he hasn't the slightest regard
for this basic tenant of Roman society. I may disagree with people within our
nation but I do attempt to behave in a respectable manner when I disagree.
Please remember this when you vote soon.

Metellus

PS As to your other accusations I won't even bother to attempt to answer you.
You've proven to me and many others not worth the time or effort.


Subject:	Re: Anglocentricity
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:15:59 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/25/98 7:59:01 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

< >>

yeah...that would be personal. But my point on that post was how almost every
issue has blossomed into heated debate.

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: [Fwd: [hellenicpagan] Re: Oceania]
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:19:48 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 9:14:37 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< All RIGHT! Start with Salem, MA! You can't possibly get more humdrum
than here! Being conquered would be a welcome change.
>>

Nope...I disagree! Salem is a cool place! Start here...Lodi, NJ! Nothin'
goin' on here!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Speaking of mood swings........
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:20:46 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 9:20:11 PM EST, amethystcrystallight@--------
writes:

<>

Please...it was a breath of fresh air.

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	FJGA@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:22:30 EST

Your research into the history of the Vestals order has proven pretty amazing
to me and many others in NR. Taking an essential part of the Roman
civilization and returning it to the present is defintely one of our goals!

I have an idea for starting a group as well but I hesitate to announce it for
fear of accusations of attempting to sway the electorate. Thoughts anyone?

Metellus


Subject:	Re: Collegium Advocatorum
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:13:50 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/25/98 7:18:02 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

<>

This was my initial understanding of it when it was first proposed. But
hey..I don't want to start another debate.....

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: Conquering New Members
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:29:54 EST

In a message dated 11/25/98 9:40:58 PM EST, jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

<< For crying out loud let's get moving! Dex can you whip up a good augery
for this campagn >>

Audens...you got it!

I sat on my porch for 3 hours yesterday and I saw a cute little squirrel
digging in the ground off to my left. Then suddenly a wolf came streaming
from my right side and attacked the squirrel.

I conclude that this is good omen for Nova Roma. Onward oh Legioneers!
Conquer the squirrels! Conquer the barbarians! Ave Marzuvius!

--Dexippus
Augur


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:33:06 EST

In a message dated 11/26/98 6:39:13 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:

<>

Well..if it was practiced in ancient Rome, then isn't it already? I hope you
are not suggesting aboundoning the Olympian deities in favor of just Sol
Invictus.

--Dexippus
<<here we go again>>

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:52:13 -0000

Salve Dexippe!

>I hope you
>are not suggesting aboundoning the Olympian deities in favor of just Sol
>Invictus.
Not at all! Although Julian paid honour to Sol Invictus in special, his view
of religion was very open and e recognised pagan Gods has different aspects
of God. The symbolism of 'Sol' simply relates to the 'Divive Light' and
'Sol' of believed by some philosophers, namely the Stoics.

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Dexippus@-------- Dexippus@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 3:41 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Solar cults....

>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 11/26/98 6:39:13 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:
>
><Romana. >>
>
>Well..if it was practiced in ancient Rome, then isn't it already? I hope
you
>are not suggesting aboundoning the Olympian deities in favor of just Sol
>Invictus.
>
>--Dexippus
><<here we go again>>
>
>"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
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>


Subject:	Re: Anglocentricity
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:56:31 EST

In a message dated 11/26/98 10:12:32 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:

<< Don't worry. The
war between candidates (at least for Tribune of the Plebs) has no personal
aims! >>

OK...glad to hear! : )

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:55:46 EST


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:07:02 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/26/98 10:25:07 AM EST, FJGA@-------- writes:

<>

SAY IT! DON'T HOLD BACK!

"I see you shiver with antici.............................."SAY
IT".................pation!"

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:09:58 EST

In a message dated 11/26/98 10:48:03 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:

<< Not at all! Although Julian paid honour to Sol Invictus in special, his
view
of religion was very open and e recognised pagan Gods has different aspects
of God. The symbolism of 'Sol' simply relates to the 'Divive Light' and
'Sol' of believed by some philosophers, namely the Stoics. >>

Okay...I can relate to that. Kinda like my own underlying belief that the
gods and goddesses are reflections of a greater Divine Source. That ultimate
Divinity is beyond our comprehension so it reveals itself to us in forms that
we can understand (i.e. the archetypes we call Gods and Goddesses). This is
also a prominent Hindu belief. When accused of idolatry by christian
missionaries, Hindus would explain that they are not worshipping the idol, but
the power behind that idol. (I don't think the missionaries accepted
this...oh well).

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:52:29 -0600

On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:22:30 EST FJGA@-------- writes:

>I have an idea for starting a group as well but I hesitate to announce
>it for
>fear of accusations of attempting to sway the electorate. Thoughts
>anyone?
>
>Metellus
>

I am going to propose something as well. Here's my suggestion:

Wait until AFTER the election!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I'm
doing, mostly because I don't know that my little proposal would even be
recognized. :-) Elections... um .... preoccupy peoples minds (?) <G>

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:49:41 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: Claud----------------oon@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:57 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Vestals and society

>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
>Although a Vestal could marry after her 30 years were up, they rarely
>did so. I can't possibly prove this assertion, BUT...privately, after
>reading research on women confined for long periods with only other
>women for company (such as in harems where many of the women may have
>never even seen the Sultan, much less gone to bed with him), I think
>that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
>developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
>of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
>that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG time,
>folks.

Very thought-provoking, Claudia. This research has the makings
of an excellent documentary.

Rusticus


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:27:44 -0000

Salvete!

>Certainly no record exists
>>of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
>>that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG time,
>>folks.
Maybe this can also be connected to the college to which Saphus belonged...
It seems that it was a college of women for the cult of Aphrodite... Well,
contrary to what happenned to Vestals, it seems that the service lasted for
a short time, and after that many girls married... But if we read the poems
of Saphus, although she died for a man, they transpire a big sensual feeling
when she describes her female pupils.
Well but as you know, also unlike Vestals, the college of Lesbus was very
criticized by contemporary MALE writers for its homosexual practices.

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Na-------- Hicks moman@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 5:11 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Vestals and society

&g--------om: "Na-------- Hicks" moman@-------- >
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:57 AM
>Subject: [novaroma] Vestals and society
>
>
>>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>>
>>Although a Vestal could marry after her 30 years were up, they rarely
>>did so. I can't possibly prove this assertion, BUT...privately, after
>>reading research on women confined for long periods with only other
>>women for company (such as in harems where many of the women may have
>>never even seen the Sultan, much less gone to bed with him), I think
>>that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
>>developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
>>of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
>>that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG time,
>>folks.
>
>
>Very thought-provoking, Claudia. This research has the makings
>of an excellent documentary.
>
>
>Rusticus
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Collegium Advocatorum
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:53:31 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/26/98 9:31:30 AM Centr--------t--------rd Time, Dexippus@--------
writes:

> restrictive. Maybe a Collegium Vernaculorum, whose sole duties would be
> translating official documents (and posts, when requested) into other
> languages. >>
>
> This was my initial understanding of it when it was first proposed.
>
I thought so, too, at first, but then I really read it, and the actual
proposal was to translate and mediate between the different speakers of the
languages, to offer counsel on the meanings behind the interpretations and to
represent those who don't speak the majority language. To be an advocate - an
attorney, as it were. There will come a time when we will need trained
interpretors of the Laws and Constitutions, not just for the speakers of
minority languages within Nova Roma (and who's to knoiw what the minority
languages will be - 20 years from now?), but for those who use the Laws in any
language.

After a great deal of thought, I feel the 2 purposes need to be separate. A
Collegium Advocatorium to interprete the Laws and the Consitution, regardless
of the language in which it is needed, or what language the cive speaks. And
a Collegium Vernaculorum, whose purpose will be to translate from one langugae
to another (preferably by native speakers of the languages). These two should
work closely together. But the Collegium Vernaculorum would help translate
the languages - whether it be the political rhetoric of the Laws and
Consitution and candidates and issues, or whether it be the poetry, stories,
recipes, rituals, etc.

Put simply - the Collegium Advocatorium interprets, the Collegium Vernaculorum
translates.

Of course, ther will be some overlap.

I'm all for being a member of the Collegium Vernaculorum (since I neither have
nor want legal training, but do speak several languages).

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:55:55 EST

In a message dated 11/26/98 9:58:50 AM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< I think that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever said
that particular practice was forbidden to them. >>

You have to remember, homosexuality was not a Roman staple, until it was
imported from Macedon. But once it was established in Rome, it was never
looked down upon. Many famous late republican personages were bi-sexual if
you read between the historians' lines. Roman tastes for such vices seemed be
seasonal. One season it was in, the next not. Also cults tended to
prosecuted when it was big deal, politically. Otherwise they were left alone.

My two denarii.
Vale
Q Fabius


Subject:	5 Acres Should Be Enough
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:58:52 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America

November 26, 1998
Year of Rome 2751

Avete et Salutatio... Tribune Marcus (Mathews) and
fellow NovaRoma Romani

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantia;
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
gwmetz@-------- 610-353-4982

Tribune Marcus, where is this 5 acre battleground?
If it is within a reasonable (2-3 hours) proximity to the
Provincia or Eastern Pennsylvania, perhaps Legio XXIV
could assist in persuading some of the populace to join
up with NovaRoma rather than face our blades.
Our gladii are big enough and we have a good idea on how
to wield them.

Perhaps we could have a "NovaRoma Gathering" and invite
the local populace to attend AND then join NovaRoma under
the threat of enslavement, sacrifice or whatever.

Legio XXIV's resume follows...

Legio XXIV has been organized as a reenactment unit to display roman
and other ancient military dress, tactics and history at faires, schools
or other public functions.

Displays of actual combat are not normally executed, although we do
demonstrate roman military formations and tactics; such as the
"Wedge", "Battle Line" and "Tortista" or "Turtle" formation of shields.

We now number four members, but with the assistance of our allied
Legio XX, stationed in the Provincia Maryland, we may be able to able
field a respectable force of legionnaires

Our time period is rather wide, 1st century BC thru the 2nd century AD,
with emphasis on the usual 1st Century AD Roman Period.

As we are interested in portraying ancient military armour, dress
and style. . . "Thru the Ages". . . Sumarians, Spartans, Macedonians,
Greeks, Celts, and other ancient military personnel, along with those
just interested in ancient military history are also welcome. . . So. . .
a variety of reasonably accurate armour, weapons and dress would be
acceptable and encouraged.

The primary period of history, however, would be First Century AD Roman.
We are allied with NovaRoma, a roman interest group in Morristown, NJ.
Contact them at www.novaroma.org

I have done roman impersonation and theatrical work for 20 years,
using hollywood style dress and I still do some of that.
After seeing Legio XIIII and the Ermine Street Guard dressed in
steel armor, in historical documentaries; I realized that there were
real reenactors out there and decided to get involved in more
authentic roman reenactment.

The Legion supplied Roman atmosphere and demonstrated roman
military dress at the Red Cross of Constantine Ladies Nite Dinner,
in Newtown Square, PA, on June 20th; and at the RCC's Eastern
Regional Conclave, near Harrisburg, PA in October 1998.
The RCC is a Masonic invitational order, of which I am a member,
which claims Constantine as its Illustrious and Royal Founder.
I represented Constantine in Legato-Tribune military dress.

Legio XXIV was also represented at the "Roman Days" encampment,
hosted by Legio XX, at Marietta Mansion in Glenn Dale, MD,
on June 13-14, 1998.

The Legion participated in a military heritage and time line event at
Fort Malden, in Amherstburg, Ontario; south of Detroit, on Aug 1 & 2.

We took part in the Columbus Day Parade, Piermont, NY,
north of New York City on the west side of the Hudson River,
off the Palisades Pkwy, on October 11th.

Word is getting around about us and I have had a couple of inquires to
have us turn-out in the upcoming months.
Legio XXIV is looking for more than just a few good Romans.
We would welcome you coming onboard with us.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Legio XXIV looks forward to assisting NovaRoma in its recruiting
efforts and stands ready to defend NovaRoma, if called upon to
do so.

As always; I, Gallio Velius Marsallas and Legio XXIV remain;

Vestrum in Vinculi Republica Romani
Yours in the Bonds of the Republic of Rome

Gallio / George

ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
|| | | ||
|| |||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||
\/ | | \/
| |
| |


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	Shawn Kelley discordianpirate@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:59:24 -0800 (PST)

---Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 11/26/98 10:48:03 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:
>
> << Not at all! Although Julian paid honour to Sol Invictus in
special, his
> view
> of religion was very open and e recognised pagan Gods has different
aspects
> of God. The symbolism of 'Sol' simply relates to the 'Divive Light'
and
> 'Sol' of believed by some philosophers, namely the Stoics. >>
>
> Okay...I can relate to that. Kinda like my own underlying belief
that the
> gods and goddesses are reflections of a greater Divine Source. That
ultimate
> Divinity is beyond our comprehension so it reveals itself to us in
forms that
> we can understand (i.e. the archetypes we call Gods and Goddesses).
This is
> also a prominent Hindu belief. When accused of idolatry by christian
> missionaries, Hindus would explain that they are not worshipping the
idol, but
> the power behind that idol. (I don't think the missionaries accepted
> this...oh well).
>
> --Dexippus
>
>

Yes...there's also the theory that the gods are created by the human
mind and given form in some type of as of yet unexplained ""ether"" on
a plane different from this one,kind of like if you were making a
robot...this theory of course leads to the idea of the inherent power
that the human mind holds over the gods,and the more followers that a
god has the more sophisticated s/he/it becomes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>


Subject:	Re: Vestals and society
From:	Shawn Kelley discordianpirate@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:00:20 -0800 (PST)

---Claud----------------oon@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
> L.Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> >
> > From: "L.Corn--------s Sulla" Al--------us@--------
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Claud----------------oon@--------
> > To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:11 PM
> > Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conquering New Members
> >
> > >From: Claud----------------oon@--------
> > >
> > >James Mathews wrote:
> > >
> > >> acres will hold. How about it Cassus ' Dex and the Senate are
you up
> > >> for just a small military campaign to pick up a thousand or so
new
> > >> members. I'm sure that given the choice between the Legio
Commander's
> > >> Gladius and a membership in Nova Roma, that we wil end up much
larger
> > >> than we were!!!!!!!
> > >>
> > >As was discussed in the Chat Room, it depends on the size of the
Gladius
> > >and how well the Legionary wields it.
> > >
> > >I, of course, have no knowledge of the matter.
> >
> > Yeah..sure Ms. Carter..I have sinned in my heart..lol...like we
all believe
> > you! :)
> >
> Hmmmmm.mmm... might be a good time to post my research on the Vestal
> Order and the matter of chastity and thier standing in Roman society.
> Remember, these were NOT Catholic nuns and should not be judged by
those
> restrictive standards. They were Patrician girls from rich families,
> they were not cut off from society, and went out as they pleased,
> proceded by a lictor, even to fancy dinner parties and to the Games.
In
> fact, they had reserved seats in front near the Emperor(in Imperial
> times) or the Consuls (in Republican times). Great seats were a real
> perk to being a Vestal!
>
> Many were politically active behind the scenes and used the power of
> their families and friends sometimes to Machiavellian extent. If the
> current Virgo Maxima was weak, sometimes the stronger Vestals
controlled
> her decisions. The person of a Vestal was inviolate, but she wasn't
> blind, deaf, mute - or stupid. Many of the Vestals were strong-willed,
> outspoken and sophisticated. Just because they didn't engage in sex
> didn't mean they didn't know about it. The Romans were not loose
> morally, but they did have a fairly healthy attitude toward sex. Any
> society that produces those little door-bells shaped like phalluses,
and
> with a Priapus by every door, couldn't have been terribly repressed.
> Puritanism hadn't been invented yet -- proof that the Romans were
> certainly luckier than WE are!
>
> Plus, the Vestals had to listen to the many woes of married women
> complaining about thier husbands -- or bragging, as the case may have
> been. Must have been like Melrose Place around the old Domus Vestales!
> Vestals got to hear all the dirt!
>
> Although a Vestal could marry after her 30 years were up, they rarely
> did so. I can't possibly prove this assertion, BUT...privately, after
> reading research on women confined for long periods with only other
> women for company (such as in harems where many of the women may have
> never even seen the Sultan, much less gone to bed with him), I think
> that the Vestals, being women with normal sex drives, must have
> developed...ahem...alternate sexual tastes. Certainly no record exists
> of any Vestal being persecuted for being gay, but then, nobody ever
said
> that particular practice was forbidden to them. 30 years is a LONG
time,
> folks. Must have been some white knuckles clutching the Arena seats
> while watching those Games, too.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
> Virgo Maxima, and keepin' her hands to herself
>
>

Of course we don't know what the definition of ""sex"" may have been
for the Vestals...I doubt that they would be asked to swear under oath
that their activities in their own view were not sex...as it was so
eloquently put once ""eatin' ain't cheatin"". I don't think i need to
make any more allusions here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>


Subject:	Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:32:36 PST

>From bounce-novaroma--2362-a_i_c_nocturnia=<a href="mailto:hotmail.com@--------" >hotmail.com@--------</a> Thu
Nov 26 07:07:57 1998
>Received: (qmail 13250 invoked by alias); 26 Nov 1998 15:07:52 -0000
>Received: (qmail 13226 invoked from network); 26 Nov 1998 15:07:51
-0000
>Received: from unknown (HELO imo15.mx.aol.com) (198.81.17.5) by
pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 1998 15:07:51 -0000
>Received: from Dexippus@-------- by imo15.mx.--------com (IMOv16.10) id
9WCTa19406 for <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:06:47 -0500
(EST)
>From: Dexippus@--------
>Mess--------ID: e398d191.365d6e87@--------
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:06:47 EST
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 224
>Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; contact
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>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: election procedures Mudwrastlin
>
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 11/25/98 3:57:32 PM EST, masterofhistor--------..
writes:
>
><< Claudii and company present the event of the year! Election by
> mudwrestling. Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY December 13th at the Circus
> Maximus 7:00pm. Thrill to the exploits of the men who would be
> Tribune! This is a hard-hitting, action-packed battle roy-al you'll
> be telling your grandchildren about. We're selling you the whole seat
> - but you're only gonna need the edge! If you miss this, you better
> be dead! Or in jail! >>
>
>
>And it is a battle to the death, right?
>
>--Dexippus
><<blood thirsty mud sports!>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Salvete quirites,

As you know, Flavia.
I will be wrestling with the candidaties, although being the Caesar, I
will not be wrestling for promotion, just fun!!!

So when do we start?

LOL

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae

__________________________________________________

To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man�s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor�s by history?

Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________

You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods

H�vam�l (The words of the God Odin)

__________________________________________________

Quote of all time!

Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.

(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)

Vergil


Subject:	Re: language
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:55:08 PST

>From bounce-novaroma--2366-A_I_C_Nocturnia Thu Nov 26 07:17:29 1998
>Received: from [209.207.164.13] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id
MHotMail308954624821235065325003520046093301230; Thu Nov 26 07:17:29
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(EST)
>From: Dexippus@--------
>Mess--------ID: 37dd570d.365d6f88@--------
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:11:04 EST
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 224
>Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; contact
<a href="mailto:novaroma-owner@--------" >novaroma-owner@--------</a>
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>Subject: [novaroma] Re: language
>
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 11/25/98 4:37:02 PM EST, m--------oon@--------
writes:
>
><>
>
>Ierce-fay! I-ay elieve-bay is-thay olves-say e-thay oblem-pray!
>
>--Exxipus-day
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I agree-ay! I'm-ay ot-nay ery-nay ot-hay on-ay it-ay ut-bay I an-cay
ick=pay it-ay up-ay again-ay.

octurnia-nay

Err, no I'm not going to do my signature!

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae

__________________________________________________

To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man�s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor�s by history?

Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________

You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods

H�vam�l (The words of the God Odin)

__________________________________________________

Quote of all time!

Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.

(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)

Vergil


Subject:	Re: Collegium Advocatorum
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:33:19 EST

Salvete,
I think that the idea of having a separate "Collegium Advocatorum" and a
''Collegium Vernaculorum" to deal with the differing issues of translation and
interpretation is excellent. Since several citizens have expressed their
willingness and ability to provide translations, it ought to be possible to at
least set up a "Collegium Vernaculorum" in the very near future. I know that
it is desirable to discuss a proposed action before rushing in and doing it,
but I hope that this idea does not become one of those things that gets
furiously debated for two weeks and then forgotten. I have been concerned
about Nova Roma's efforts, or apparent lack of effort, to communicate with its
international members, and I think that having the Constitution and other
principal documents available in at least 3 or 4 languages (and Latin) is a
very desirable thing.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:40:51 PST

>From bounce-novaroma--2381-A_I_C_Nocturnia Thu Nov 26 08:17:44 1998
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(EST)
>From: Dexippus@--------
>Mess--------ID: b02503d4.365d7d56@--------
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:09:58 EST
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 224
>Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; contact
<a href="mailto:novaroma-owner@--------" >novaroma-owner@--------</a>
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>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Solar cults....
>
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 11/26/98 10:48:03 AM EST, amg@-------- writes:
>
><< Not at all! Although Julian paid honour to Sol Invictus in special,
his
>view
> of religion was very open and e recognised pagan Gods has different
aspects
> of God. The symbolism of 'Sol' simply relates to the 'Divive Light'
and
> 'Sol' of believed by some philosophers, namely the Stoics. >>
>
>Okay...I can relate to that. Kinda like my own underlying belief that
the
>gods and goddesses are reflections of a greater Divine Source. That
ultimate
>Divinity is beyond our comprehension so it reveals itself to us in
forms that
>we can understand (i.e. the archetypes we call Gods and Goddesses).
This is
>also a prominent Hindu belief. When accused of idolatry by christian
>missionaries, Hindus would explain that they are not worshipping the
idol, but
>the power behind that idol. (I don't think the missionaries accepted
>this...oh well).
>
>--Dexippus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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Basically like the All, Dex?

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae

__________________________________________________

To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man�s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor�s by history?

Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________

You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods

H�vam�l (The words of the God Odin)

__________________________________________________

Quote of all time!

Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.

(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)

Vergil


Subject:	Languages and ideas
From:	Masterofhistory masterofhistory@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:43:12 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes,

I have been trying to follow the list threads on language,
translations and the formation of new collegia here in Nova Roma. I
think it was a good idea to begin discussing this on the list even if
conversation got a bit heated at times. Also, I think now would be a
good time for people to post their ideas for interest groups, sodalia
or collegia. As a candidate for Tribune of the People, I have said
many times that I want to hear people's ideas about how Nova Roma
could grow and develope. We need organizations within Nova Roma to
facilitate the exchange of ideas and knowledge about the ancient
world.

I think it would be an excellent idea to have an institute of
languages here at Nova Roma. The society we rebuild spoke and wrote
Latin, they came to dominate those civilizations with long literary
traditions of their own, for example the Greeks, Egyptians and
Hebrews. If we have the talent among us to study and teach aspects of
these ancient languages, I believe it could only help our
understanding of the ancient world. This would, of course take a
great deal of time and effort, but we are (I believe) up to the task.

We may very well need a institute to assist in clarifying points to
Nova Romans whose native language is not English. I do not think that
tha Americans here are disinterested in other languages, just
inexperienced. An institute of modern languages could serve as a
forum to assist both citizens who don't know English well and native
English speakers who would like to understand a foreign language better.

I think such proposals are well worth further consideration and
discussion. Let's try to think about this objectively and openly, we
are all Nova Romans here - and that is no small thing.

Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Candidate for Tribune of the People


Subject:	Collegium Vernaculorum - 1st Attempt
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:10:53 EST

Below is the beginning of my own personal efforts to translate the
Constitution into one of the other languages. I chose German, as it is the
language with which I am most comfortable. This is only Article 1. Does
anyone wish me to continue?

Constitution of NOVA ROMA

Beschaffenheit des NOVAS ROM

Preamble
We the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and sovereign nation,
here
set forth this Constitution as the foundation and structure of our governing
institutions
and common society.

Pr�ambel legten wir der Senat und die Leute des Novas Rom, wie unabh�ngige und
souver�ne Nation, hier diese Beschaffenheit als die Grundlage und die Struktur
unserer regelnanstalten und allgemeinen Gesellschaft fest.

As the spiritual heir to the Republic of ancient Rome, Nova Roma shall
endeavor to
exist, in all manners practical and acceptable, as the modern restoration of
the ancient
Roman Republic. The culture, religion, and society of Nova Roma shall be
patterned
upon those of ancient Rome.

Als der geistige Erbe zur Republik von altem Rom, bem�ht sich Nova Rom, zu
existierenen, in allen praktischen und annehmbaren Weise, als die moderne
Wiederherstellung der alten r�mischen Republik. Die Kultur, die Religion und
die Gesellschaft des Novas Rom patterned nach denen von altem Rom.

Article I: Introduction
Nova Roma, as an established Sovereign Nation, is organized as a Republic
consisting of Citizens and Gentes, religious institutions, and governing
institutions founded upon ancient Roman example. Nova Roma consists of held
and claimed territories including: a central Sacred Capitol, established Roman
religious Temples and Shrines in various locations around the world, and
"temporary" Sacred Territories existing for the duration of ceremonies
wherever
rites of the Religio Romana are held and officiated by recognized members of
the
religious institutions of Nova Roma.

Artikel I: Einleitung Nova Rom, wie hergestellte souver�ne Nation, wird als
Republik organisiert, die aus B�rgern und Gentes, frommen Anstalten und den
regelnanstalten gegr�ndet werden nach altem r�mischem Beispiel besteht. Nova
Rom besteht aus den angehaltenen und behaupteten Gegenden einschlie�lich: ein
zentrales Sacred Capitol, hergestellte r�mische fromme B�gel und ein Shrines
in den verschiedenen Standorten um die Welt und " die tempor�ren " Sacred
Gegenden, die w�hrend der Dauer von Zeremonien existierenen, wohin rites des
Religio Romana von anerkannten Bauteilen der frommen Anstalten des Novas Rom
angehalten und amtiert werden.

As a nation, Nova Roma shall be the temporal homeland and worldly focus for
the
Religio Romana. The primary functions of Nova Roma shall be to promote the
study and practice of pagan Roman civilization, defined as the period from the
founding of the City of Rome in 753 BCE to the removal of the altar of Victory
from the Senate in 394 CE and encompassing such fields as religion, culture,
politics, art, literature, language, and philosophy.

Als Nation ist Nova Rom der zeitliche Homeland und worldly der Fokus f�r das
Religio Romana. Die Prim�rfunktionen des Novas Rom sind, die Studie und die
Praxis der pagan r�mischen Zivilisation zu f�rdern, definiert als die Periode
von der Gr�ndung der Stadt von Rom in 753 BCE zum Abbau des Altar des Sieges
vom Senat in CER 394 und vom Umgeben solcher Felder wie Religion, Kultur,
Politiken, kunst, Literatur, Sprache und Philosophie.

The legal, sacral, and accounting year of Nova Roma shall begin on the Kalends
of
Martius (March 1st).

Das zugelassene, sacral und Rechnungsjahr des Novas Rom f�ngt auf dem Kalends
von Martius an (M�rz 1.).

This Constitution may be altered by law passed by one of the comitia; such
alterations to this Constitution must be ratified by a vote of two-thirds of
the
entire Senate before it shall take effect.

Diese Beschaffenheit kann durch das Gesetz ge�ndert werden, das laengs ein
des comitia verabschiedet wird; solche �nderungen zu dieser Beschaffenheit
m�ssen durch eine Stimme von zweidrittel des gesamten Senats best�tigt werden,
bevor er wirksamIST.

Wherever appropriate, the term "civil law" refers to the laws and regulations
of the
localities, states, and countries in which Nova Roma and its Citizens finds
itself
operating. The term leges Novae Romae refers to only those internal laws
passed
by the various Comitiae and applicable only to Nova Roma and its Citizens.
Where conflicts between these arise, the civil law shall prevail, but recourse
to
the civil law is not sufficient to prevent revocation of Citizenship for
violations of
the leges Novae Romae.

Wohin passend, die Bezeichnung " Zivilrecht " die Gesetze und die Regelungen
der Stellen, der Zust�nde und der L�nder anspricht, in denen Nova Rom und
seine B�rger sich findet, zu funktionieren. Die Bezeichnung legesnovas Romae
spricht nur jene internen Gesetze an, die laengs des verschiedenen Comitiae
verabschiedet werden und nur auf Nova Rom und seine B�rger anwendbar. Wo
$�berschneidungen zwischen diesen entstehen, herscht das Zivilrecht vor, aber
Entsch�digung zum Zivilrecht ist nicht gen�gend, R�cknahme der
Staatsb�rgerschaft f�r Verletzungen der legesnovas Romae zu verhindern.

This Constitution shall be legally in effect when it is ratified by a two-
thirds majority
of the Citizens of Nova Roma. At that moment, all those who occupy pro tem
positions within the organization shall be automatically installed in the
appropriate magistrateship without the need for formal elections to be held.
Those
magistrates shall be automatically installed as members of the Senate, without
having to wait for their terms of office to expire. From the time of
ratification
until the first scheduled elections, the Senate may fill all offices by
Senatus
Consulta, as necessary.

Diese Beschaffenheit ist erlaubterweise in Wirklichkeit, wenn sie von einer
zweidrittel Majorit�t der B�rger des Novas Rom best�tigt wird. An diesem
Moment allem die, die, die besetzen, Protem innerhalb der Organisation in
Position bringt, ist installiert automatisch in das passende magistrateship
ohne die Notwendigkeit an den formalen Wahlen angehalten zu werden. Jene
Richter sind automatisch als Bauteile des Senats installiert, ohne zu m�ssen,
zu warten, da� ihre Amtszeiten ablaufen. Seit Best�tigung, bis das erste
Wahlen einplante, kann der Senat alle B�ros durch Senatus Consulta f�llen, wie
ben�tigt.

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: Conquering New Members
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:35:12 -0500 (EST)

My Dear;

Discussing it in the Chatroom and looking down the blade held by a
determined centurio are two far different kettles of Garum!!!!

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Collegium Advocatorum
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:32:03 -0500

----------------an impersonal post to Nova Roma follows this separator; if
you think that it's personal, you have misunderstood and should either
re-read it or re-boot your
computer--------------------------------------------------------------

Salvete Floria et alii

Good point, but, since we still have fewer than CC cives, I think that one
umbrella collegium may suffice for now. It could always divide later as
necessary.

And, I still urge caution against instituting participation of advocates
into day-to-day dealings among NR cives. I think that the collegium could
be useful when people are already trying and failing to communicate with
other parties, particularly magistrates.

But, all this is probably moot, since I fear that the proponents of the
collegium have already been driven away.

I hope that I am wrong about that.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: Nodigio@-------- Nodigio@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:55 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Collegium Advocatorum

:From: Nodigio@--------
:
:In a message dated 11/26/98 9:31:30 AM Central Standard Time,
Dexippus@--------
:writes:
:
:After a great deal of thought, I feel the 2 purposes need to be separate.
A
:Collegium Advocatorium to interprete the Laws and the Consitution,
regardless
:of the language in which it is needed, or what language the cive speaks.
And
:a Collegium Vernaculorum, whose purpose will be to translate from one
langugae
:to another (preferably by native speakers of the languages). These two
should
:work closely together. But the Collegium Vernaculorum would help translate
:the languages - whether it be the political rhetoric of the Laws and
:Consitution and candidates and issues, or whether it be the poetry,
stories,
:recipes, rituals, etc.
:
:Put simply - the Collegium Advocatorium interprets, the Collegium
Vernaculorum
:translates.
:
:Of course, ther will be some overlap.
:
:I'm all for being a member of the Collegium Vernaculorum (since I neither
have
:nor want legal training, but do speak several languages).
:
:Secunda Floria Zonara
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
:to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
:select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.


Subject:	Re: 5 Acres Should Be Enough
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:42:23 -0500

Salvete Marsallas et Audens et alii

If you legionnarii need a castra borealia on your way to conquering some
town in Quebec, I have ten acres up here near via LXXXIX that you're welcome
to use. Just e-mail me first.

While you're here you can show me some Roman tactics. All I know is a
couple of saber fencing moves, and I'd enjoy the opportunity to broaden my
repertoire.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: GWMETZ@-------- GWMETZ@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 4:58 PM
Subject: [novaroma] 5 Acres Should Be Enough

the menu bar on the left.


Subject:	Re: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was Anglocentricity??)
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:10:19 -0500

Salvete Venator et alii

I think that Nova Roma's use of Esperanto would be a bit like re-inventing
the wheel. Latin was the language of the Roman Republic; the orations and
correspondence of prominent Romans like Cicero are already written in Latin,
providing us with a body of literature; people prayed to Iuppiter Optimus
Maximus and the gods and goddesses in Latin, not Esperanto.

Besides, Dexippus has made a good point in cautioning against many official
languages. If we adopt Esperanto as such, magistrates that want to be
effective in the future will have two foreign tongues, at a minimum, to
master -- Latin and Esperanto.

But, Venator, if you know Esperanto, I do not see anything wrong at all with
your translating NR material into that language for publication on a website
somewhere. Why not?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
-----Original Message-----
From: Venator amgunn@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 9:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was
Anglocentricity??)

:From: Venator amgunn@--------
:
:Salvete Omnes!
:
:Amethystia I Crystallina wrote:
:>
:> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
:>
:> Salvete all!!!!
:>
:> As my mother often said "You WILL be nice or I will kick your ________
:> (insert appropriate body part)!!"
:>
:> Y'all need to chill!!!! Maybe we should simply make up a NEW language
:> and everyone can quit this petty 'official language' BS. (SNIP)
:
:I have found Amethystia to be a person I like and from whom I have come
:to expect good sense. How about Esperanto as an official language
:alongside Latin, as well as the current Lingua Franca of English?
:
:--
:|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
:| ___ ___ |
:| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
:| / . \/^\/ . \ |
:| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
:| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
:| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
:| "-V-" |
:|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
:| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
:| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
:| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
:| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
:| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
:|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
:
:
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
:to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
:select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
:


Subject:	MY bright idea (was:Languages and ideas)
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:52:31 -0600

On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:43:12 -0800 (PST) Masterofhistory
masterofhistor--------.. writes:
>Also, I think now would be a
>good time for people to post their ideas for interest groups, sodalia
>or collegia. As a candidate for Tribune of the People, I have said
>many times that I want to hear people's ideas about how Nova Roma
>could grow and develope. We need organizations within Nova Roma to
>facilitate the exchange of ideas and knowledge about the ancient
>world.
>

Salvete --

OK...here's MY bright idea....(well, someone suggested I 1. already HAD
started it and so 2. would be the best candidate for the job (well, maybe
'candidate' isn't the right word <G>). I was going to wait until after
the elections, but since the subject has been brought up.......

I would like to begin the Sodalis Pro Infantia (the Society for
Childhood). The focus, of course, would be the children of Ancient
Rome/Nova Roma. I hope to (eventually) cover all ages from 1 day old to
Citizenship (15 years old).

Here are some of my ideas for the Sodalis Pro Infantia:

*Stories of the Gods and/or Roman children (submitted by Citizens and/or
their children)
*History of children of Rome
*Games and toys from Roman times
*Raising children with Roman values
*The role of children in Ancient Rome
*How Roman children were educated
*Mailing list for Roman families (e-mail)
*Pictures of the children of Nova Roma (a family album) or at least names
(a 'not-quite-citizens' list)
*How the holidays were celebrated by/with children (we all know Santa is
*actually* Saturn incognito <G>)

Any suggestions, comments, ideas, volunteers, donations of material, etc
would be greatly appreciated!!!! I thank those who have already given me
material, support and guidance (I even thank Venator for getting me
started in the first place).

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

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Subject:	Ideas
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:03:55 -0500 (EST)

Ideas are seldom the problem in and of themselves. The presentation of
ideas can really screw up the whle works! An idea per se, is usually a
breath of fresh air, however, I would expect the presenter to be aware
of his / her audience and to the needs of that audience before the
presentation is made.

The citizens of Nova Roma are not afraid of new ideas, but in many cases
it is the style of presentation that makes it appear that way. Until I
have met a person face to face or have seen their repeated messages on
this List I am usually kind of careful with my ideas. It seems to me
that onelist is one of the most tolerant groups of folks that I have
ever dealt with.

It is a little like living in another country. If you give the
communication effort a real try, and don't act like you are superior,
almost 100% of the time the people of that country will come to your
aid. Act superior, and watch how fast you get wiped off the chalkboard
of life!!!

Having said all that what is your idea Mettelus?

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Conquering New Members
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:10:42 -0500 (EST)

Many Thanks Oh Most Honored Augurer.

Well we have the Augury that we need, now All I need is a Commission
from the Senior Consul.

Honored Roman!!
I most respectfully request a Commission on this proposed Campaign for
new memebers to Nova Roma. I pledge to thee my assigned legions
diligent search for such and the comforting fact that they will not come
to harm (We know that but they don't) and only may be displaced for a
few short months until the applicatio papers are drawn up.

Vale Honored Roman!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens
Nova Roma Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Collegium Vernaculorum - 1st Attempt
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:14:59 -0800

Waes Hael Secunda Floria Zonara!

Vielen Danke!

That's about the extent of my mostly forgotten High School German. I
would welcome this translation!

Auf wiedersehen und Rom fur immer!
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|


Subject:	Re: Happy... Happy... Joy... Joy...(was Anglocentricity??)
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:20:18 -0800

Salvete Gaius Marius Merullus et alia!

I haven't any language except my tenuous grasp of American-English.
Perhaps Secunda Floria's efforts at a German translation will help
revive my small ability in that language. I just offered Esperanto as a
talking point. I'm going to make the struggle to learn the Latin. In
Valeria Octavia (from Hawaii) we have another Latin enthusiast, so I'm
sure I'll get some good advice on the Mother Tongue.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:25:01 -0500 (EST)

You know that is a very nice view of the face of God. Imagine a godlike
figure(s) of the Gods that you hold dear. That particular God face
turned toward you streaming a clear and blinding light of truth and
majesty. And on different subjects in rows stretching far away to the
horizan, they see the lights of their own Gods but they also see the
lights of Gods of others and those as yet unknown in aa lesser light,
but a light of God. That is a very interesting concept, and the
differect septs or sects of a given religon as seen through different
filters for color as standards to live up to. That is very clear to me,
and I think goes well with my own personal set of ideas. I can see the
true clear light of my God clearly, but to a lesser degre I can see the
ligt shining on the faces of other as brightly as my own. From that
vision I can perceive the goodness of other beliefs, and therefor
respect those other beliefs who have lit the lives of those with whom I
choose to deal. That's kind of neat, for two reasons; one for the
instant pickup in my own mind of that phenomena, and for the continued
understandig, a I strove to put my vision into words.

I thank my friend Praetor of Lustitania, you hae given me a glimpse of
something that I think will be quite valuable in the coming future.

M.Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Solar cults....
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:31:39 -0500 (EST)

You don't think the missionaries accepted this!!!!!

Have you ever talked to a missionary? Honestly some of them that are
within my own religion embarass me to tears, damn near!!!

My wife supports them in their efforts because it gives her pleasure to
do so. But, I wouldn't walk across the street to hear their words,
because the words do not reflect anything of what I have read and
studied. Religion at times can be difficult when mixed with a generous
amount of politics. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Business during the Election Period
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:48:20 -0500 (EST)

This is an item that I would like to seen taken up by the Tribunes after
the election. I made the mistake of proposing an idea prior to the
elections, and nothing has happened. I don't even know if the proposal
was received.

Now before anyone hastens to chastise me about those in office being
very busy, don't bother, because I am familiar wit the feeling I too
have got a back-log of things to do. However, that is not the point.
The simple fact is that things freeze up during the election period and
frankly my vote will go to the person who acts on my requests like
"business as usual." Now I also know about work and family and illness,
(I have my own unit) but responsibility enters into it as well. The
holders of the present offices should at least have notified me as to
the status of my application and asked if I could help things along, by
writing messages, dealing with problems, answering inquiries, etc. I am
perhaps not qualified to be a Consul, or Censor or Senator but I am not
stupid either. I am currently standing for the position of Quaestor,
which is defined as one in charge of an appointed task by the Senate.
Well lads and lassies, if you have work on the books and you do, and you
haven't been able to get to it, then you need help. If you need help,
that qualifies as an appointed task does it not? So, ASK!!!!!! That is
the best way I know of to get things moving again.

Thank You for listening to this Political Broadcast.

Marcus Municius Audens
Standing for the position of Nova Roman Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Collegium Advocatorum
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:10:55 -0500 (EST)

I am much taken with the idea of translation, but I don't think I care
for the idea of translators acting in a legal aspect as lawyers, since
the requirements are very different. That's why I like Zonara's idea
At the present we have a problem, and it is a serious one. We have a
constitution written in english with a variety of members who do not
speak / read english as a first language. Let us consentrate on that
problem, and while we are doing that, discuss (argue or whatever) the
aspect of a Collegium of Advocatorum, simply because we do not have that
need yet, as we have had no request for the use of Advocates.

You may not like the politics of some of those whom you have heard, but
the need to have our ruling documents translated is here and now. I
would very much like to see the Consul and the Senate agree on a method
to get starated on this program, announce the start of the program, and
report on the progress of the program at selected intervals. I would
further like to see the Tribunes put that effort on their calendars to
make sure these reports are made clearly, concisely and on time. Now I
do not have the skill to do the translation (i don't even do English
very well) but I see a need for this quite clearly and I hope that all
levels of this government do as well. If they do not, is this not the
job of the Tribunes to see to things like this? My politics is probably
different than yours, and I don't do it very well, but you who are
standing for Tribunes, my request is for you to write that down in your
notebooks, and pursue it. If you don't like my ideas, then tell me why.
I'll listen, I'm pretty good at that, but be straightforward, I'm pretty
good at that too

Thank You For Your Kind Attention to this Political Announcement

Marcu Minucius Audens
Standing for the position of Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Apologia ad Atticus
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:25:04 -0800

Avete Omnes;

I have had an e-letter from Atticus. The olive branch I offered has
been accepted. Let us go on from here as adults. I promise to never
again compose a letter which could be construed, generally, as an ad
hominum. I shall keep vehement disagreements to private e-mail.

Where do we go from here? To the Field of Mars to vote! (That is where
the polling place is set up, isn't it?) I hope that I can be of us as
Quaestor.

To our Non-Anglophone Cives, I bid thee Well Come. Let all our
discussions be towards a bright future for Nova Roma.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|


Subject:	Re: Apologia ad Atticus
From:	"L.Cornelius Sulla" alexious@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:40:05 -0800

I am very pleased that this discussion has been debated and concluded by
all sides amicabily. May all of our debates end that amicably! May all of
our citizens, present and future end amicabily. Good luck to you Atticus
your words have been heeded and will be acted, and Venator, I am glad that
you and Atticus have patched up your differences! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis

----------
> From: Venator amgunn@--------
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Apologia ad Atticus
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 10:25 PM
>
> From: Venator amgunn@--------
>
> Avete Omnes;
>
> I have had an e-letter from Atticus. The olive branch I offered has
> been accepted. Let us go on from here as adults. I promise to never
> again compose a letter which could be construed, generally, as an ad
> hominum. I shall keep vehement disagreements to private e-mail.
>
> Where do we go from here? To the Field of Mars to vote! (That is where
> the polling place is set up, isn't it?) I hope that I can be of us as
> Quaestor.
>
> To our Non-Anglophone Cives, I bid thee Well Come. Let all our
> discussions be towards a bright future for Nova Roma.
>
> --
> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
> | ___ ___ |
> | /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
> | / . \/^\/ . \ |
> | / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
> | /.-' ).( '-.\ |
> | /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
> | "-V-" |
> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
> | omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
> | non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
> | nunc est bibendum - Horace |
> | in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
> | in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: Plebs and Patricians
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:55:21 -0800

Salvete.

Audens, carus, another one I can not snip.

The only serious talk that I have seen of Patricians being better than
Plebs has been on the part of of Plebian Tribune candidates. They are
playing too seriously in the classs orders of Roma Antiqua and have
forgotten that that there is nobody here but us. I think that the
orders of Patricaina and Plebian should be abandoned. Perhaps in a few
years, if Nova Roma survives so long, the idea of some gentes having
been around "since the beginning" will mean something. Of course I do
not think things will be any better in this field. It seems to be
something in the DNA. What the supposed Pleb-Patri schtick has been has
been basically been people saying "I'm better than you because somewhere
it says I'm less than you." Like everything else with that type of
trip, that is utter nonsense.

We've got to work towards making Nova Roma work. Let's scrap this order
thing entirely.

Caius Aelius Ericius
Citizen of Nova Roma

James Mathews wrote:
>
> My Dear;
>
> I have noticed on several occasions in different places that
> comments regarding the Plebs as a lesser class of people or pepe who did
> not quite have the picture, or people who are in some way just one step
> under the Patrician Class. This is a message of inquiry. Is the fact
> that the only difference in Nova Roma between Patricians and Plebs the
> fact of the joinig date?? This was explained to me by the Consul upon
> my application to Nova Roma. If Plebs and Patricians are like the two
> political parties in our countries today, and the titles bandied about
> in a political sense, then I can live with that. If anyone thinks that
> you ar superior as a Patrician because your application to Nova Roma
> predated mine by a few months, then I would remind all Patricians who
> have similar ideas that you are in my opinion dead wrong. Class
> bashing, just as culture bashing has no place here.
>
> My Plebian station, I was informed by the Senior Consul, had no real
> meainng in Nova Roma and did not signify that there were any limitations
> upon me in regard to that title. I would like to have that position
> verified, as I do not feel that I am inferior to anyone. Not as clever,
> handsome, intelligent, or beautiful (You will always win in that
> category Dex) perhaps, but Inferior to No-one.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Translation of constitution
From:	Ricci razenna@--------
Date:	Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:07:36 -0800

Attention Flavia Claudia: Regarding the following, I will need that
ValSpeak translation of The Constitution ASAP for the benefit of the
southern regio of my province.

Caius Aelius Ericius
Praetor ad Californiam Provinciam

James Mathews wrote:
> I urge the Provincial Praetors to review this technical
> offering in order to get our onelist to the greatest number of our "out
> of U.S." members as possible.
>
> M. Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!