Subject:	huh?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:45:39 +0000

Good morning Pat and Cassius!

What exactly does Germanicus hope to achieve with his little poisen pen
this morning?

Also, Cassius, I just sent you an email about the Lekithos I am bidding
on, but you won't get it untill the end of the auction. If you are
interested in having a look, it is #44081097. (It will probobly get up
to about $250

Ave atque Vale,
Pythia

Subject:	Re: huh?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:58:45 +0000

Well, It looks as if I blew this one! I might as well go public!
I really think Germanicus got up on the wrong side of the bed here!
I don't think your post was very helpful in a situation that was an
honest mistake....and if you were so concerned about the proceedings you
should have thought about that before you hightailed out of here and
left everyone to pick up the pieces.

I really don't want to start another of these endless threads about
Germanicus, but I am fairly annoyed about this mornings post. Someone
recently pointed out how new Nova Roma is, and we don't need snipers
coming in at the 11th hour to vent!

I think we can sort out this Ballot discrepancy if we use our
considerable intellects and read the website and the information, rather
than get caught up in these arguments!

I am sorry to have started something here that I did not mean to,but now
that I have I won't shrink from speaking my mind....

(and please don't bid on my husband's Solstice gift ;-)

Pythia
Pythia wrote:
>
> From: Pythia kingan@--------
>
> Good morning Pat and Cassius!
>
> What exactly does Germanicus hope to achieve with his little poisen pen
> this morning?
>
> Also, Cassius, I just sent you an email about the Lekithos I am bidding
> on, but you won't get it untill the end of the auction. If you are
> interested in having a look, it is #44081097. (It will probobly get up
> to about $250
>
> Ave atque Vale,
> Pythia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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Subject:	Re: Religio Romana and Indo-European Paganism
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:22:51 +0000

> Saturnalia???????
>
> As a Roman Shintoist, this is a small part of how we celebrate Saturnalia:

As I know inquiring minds want to know....what exactly IS Roman Shinto,
and how many of you are there?


Best, Pythia

Subject:	Re: Holiday Cheer??/Can't we all just GET ALONG!!!
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:14:38 +0000

Amethystia I Crystallina wrote:


>
> Heck, I'm about to get travel approval for the California trip....why
> not?! You mail me the ticket, we'll be there!!!!!!!

AHEM.......

Am I to understand that you are GOING to California???? Whats this?

Pythia (Glowering down her nose!)

Subject:	BALLOT VOTES Do What Has To Be Done
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:19:20 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


November 20, 1998
Year of Rome 2751

Avete et Salutatio... Marcus

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
gwmetz@-------- 610-363-4982

In reference to "Ballot Discrepancy"; I am not aware of any balloting
procedure where "electors" are not permitted to vote for as many
candidates as there are positions available.
I.E. Two openings for the Office?... then two candidates for the office
may be voted upon ( 1 for each office position open to be filled) by each
"elector".

If a revised "Eagle" and/or ballot is required to be mailed, then so be it.
If I were responsible for the "goof", then I would feel obligated to correct
the error at my expense. A whole new EAGLE may not be needed,
just a second mailing to explain the problem, annul the incorrect procedure
and provide the corrected ballot form.
Perhaps an extension of a week or so to the balloting period would suffice
to give the Citizens time to submit or re-submit the correct ballot form.

This situation reminds me of the adage "When it is too much trouble or
there is not enough time to DO IT RIGHT ?. . . There will always be
enough time to DO IT OVER !

This is out first election. Let's not screw it up. I do not want Legio XXIV
to be "called-out" to quell a voter riot and uprising as our first military
assignment for NovaRoma.


Vestrum in Vinculi Republica Romani
Yours in the Bonds of the Republic of Rome

Gallio / George

O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A

Subject:	Re: Ballot and resignation of candidacy
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:51:02 -0500

>From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
>
>Claudia wrote:
>>
>> I appreciate the support, but don't waste your time or your vote. I had
>> thought that we were friends --well, as friendly as you can get online!
>>
>> As I understand it, the objections to my running as Consul seemed to be:
>> 1)
>> 2) that I ws running as an independent candidate,
>> 3) they seemed to be under the impression that, as editor of the Eagle
>> and keeper of the database.
>> I'm not accepting any more private e-mail or ICQ messages about this.
>> -- flavia Claudia
>
>I believe that Cincinatus and Palladius should reply to this on the List.
>Caius Aelius Ericius


Salvete
So, how does one respond to something like this? Why don't you just ask
me something like... So, when did you stop beating your wife? OR... Are you
still taking drugs?
F Claudia Juliana withdrew her candidacy, that says it all.

Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Re: ballots and candidates
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:32:17 EST

Flavia Claudia incribed:

>They most certainly did NOT try to rig the Consular election. It just
>seems to be more of an election with a third candidate. However,
>Cincinnatus did declare that he was going to charge elction fraud if I
>won. I heard this from two people, one of which was Palladius. But all
>this is academic, isn't it? I'm not running.
>
>And let's not get this "exilable" word bouncing around.

Perhaps I misread your earlier messages. I'm glad there was no rigging of
the election -- so far it seems to be fouled up enough just by innocent
mistakes. Gods forbid that anyone should try deliberately to derail it!

As for exile -- that was just a _little_ joke. After all, it often seems
that we're all about as far apart as we could be already, doesn't it?

I regret that you seem so intent on being out of the running, Flavia
Claudia. I agree that an election in which there are no more candidates
than there are offices is not much of an election.

Hopefully next year it will go more smoothly.

Vale!

L. Sergius Australicus


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Legions-No!!
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:32:23 EST

Marcus Municius Audens, eloquent Military Tribune, opined:
>
>I'm not sure why there should not be a place within Nova Roma for those
>interested in the military prowess and organization of Rome.
>
SNIP
>..... I think you
>err in the limiting nature of your message, but perhaps you did not mean
>it the way it sounded to me, in which case, I beg your pardon. However,
>if you did mean it as exclusitory, then I would debate thee upon this
>subject in the forum, not with anger, not with deceit, and not with arms
>of iron or brass, but rather with the noblest of weapons,
>words whose truth flies far beyod those of balliste or scorpion!!

Another unreferenced reply, made more puzzling by the fact that I haven't
yet seen a message implying that there is no place for military and naval
interests in Nova Roma. On the contrary, many citizen, on a number of
different occasions, have expressed such interests.

Are you certain, Marcus Municius, that you haven't misunderstood
someone's post?
(Not to imply, of course, that there are ever any misunderstandings
around here ;-)

L. Sergius Aust.


si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

(If it ain't broke, don't fix it.)

Subject:	Re: Augurs
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:32:22 EST

M. Gladius Saevus wrote:
>Me, I'm holdingt my head and weeping at the second fall of Rome. . .

It does seem that the Roman Republic has indeed been reborn, complete
with all of it's squabbles, foibles, and flaws. Now, perhaps, it can be
made to work out right?

L. Sergius Aust.



sequella numquam tam bona est quam origo.

(The sequel is never as good as the original.)

Subject:	armor shock!
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:32:25 EST

Salvete omnes.

I recently resumed "knitting" my lorica hamata, after a hiatus of several
months. I'm approaching having a thousand little 7 mm rings assembled. On
the basis of several different texts containing statements that a typical
mail hauberk might contain as many as 25,000 rings, I thought I was
making progress.

Last night I extrapolated from the section of mail I have completed to
the total area of mail I will need, and my figures tell me I will need
upwards of 60,000 rings assembled before I'm through!

There's a chance that by the time I finish this thing, I'll be too old
and feeble to wear it.

L. Sergius Aust.



cum ballistae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti ballistas habebunt.

(When ballistas are outlawed, only outlaws will have ballistas.)

Subject:	Re: Plebs and Patricians
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:32:20 EST

>From: jmath669642reng@-------- (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>Is that an order or a proposal????? Boy, you appointed office-holders
>get pushy in this season of the year!! What is your augury for our
>happiness should we see our way clear through all the "difficulties?"
>
>M. Audens
These unreferenced replies are really confusing to me, at least. To whom
was this intended to be directed?

I guess since I'm not an "office-holder,"I'm safe.

I notice a lot of unreferenced replies on the list. Is it because we're
leaving out information, or is there something not right about how
OneList does message attribution?

L. Sergius Aust.



certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	[Fwd: Firecherries]
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:05:59 -0800

Here's one I've had a number of requests for. You can substitute Cherry
Brandy of Danish Cherry Kijava for the Everclear.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

Subject:	Athena List
From:
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:14:05 EST

There is a onelist mailing list for discussing all things relating to Athena
aka Minerva. To subscribe go to:

<a href="http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Athena" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Athena</a>

Subject:	Re: Translation of constitution
From:	"Fabio Incutti" incutti@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:37:53 +0100

Valete quirites,

please find the following translation into Italian of the first three
chapters of NR Constitution.

As soon as the translation will be complete, I'll put it in the Provincia
Italiae home page.

Valete.

Primus Fabius C.
----------------------------------------------------
Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit
________________________
Premessa
Noi, il Senato ed il Popolo di Nuova Roma, in qualità di nazione
indipendente e sovrana, approviamo e promulghiamo la presente Costituzione
come fondamento e struttura delle nostre istituzioni e della nostra società
civile.
Articolo I. Dichiarazioni fondamentali
1) La Nazione Sovrana di Nuova Roma è una Repubblica composta da Cittadini,
Gentes, istituzioni religiose ed istituzioni politiche, i quali si
conformano all'esempio di quelli dell'antica Roma. Il territorio di Nuova
Roma è composto: da una Sacra Capitale, dai Templi dedicati alla Religione
romana, da ulteriori sedi collocate in vari Paesi del mondo, nonché da
ulteriori Territori Sacri Temporanei, esistenti per il tempo della
celebrazione e collocati ove si svolgono riti della Religione romana,
celebrati da membri delle istituzioni religiose di Nuova Roma.
2) La Nazione di Nuova Roma sarà il centro temporale e la sede della
Religione romana. La funzione primaria di Nuova Roma è quella di promuovere
lo studio e la rinascita della civiltà dell'antica Roma, intendendosi con
ciò la civiltà fiorita nel periodo compreso tra la fondazione della città di
Roma nel 753 a.c. e la rimozione dell'Altare della Vittoria dal Senato nel
394 d.c., in tutti i suoi aspetti come la religione, la cultura, la
politica, l'arte, la letteratura, la lingua, e la filosofia.
3) Il computo degli anni, per fini legali e religiosi, avverrà a partire
dalle Calende di Marzo (primo marzo).
4) La presente Costituzione potrà essere modificata da leggi ordinarie
approvate da uno dei Comitia. Tali modificazioni, per poter avere effetto,
dovranno essere ratificate con il voto favorevole di almeno due terzi dei
membri del Senato.
5) Laddove adoperato, il termine "civil law" si riferisce alle leggi ed ai
regolamenti degli Stati e dei Paesi in cui operano le istituzioni ed i
cittadini di Nova Roma. Il termine leges Novae Romae si riferisce agli atti
legislativi interni approvati dai vari Comitiae ed applicabili solo a Nova
Roma ed ai suoi cittadini. In caso di conflitto tra le suddette norme,
prevarrà la civil law ma quest'ultima non potrà, in alcun caso, essere
invocata contro provvedimenti di revoca della cittadinanza di Nova Roma per
fatti attinenti a violazioni delle leggi di Nova Roma stessa.
6) La presente Costituzione entrerà in vigore con la ratifica da parte dei
due terzi dei cittadini di Nova Roma. Al momento della ratifica, tutti
coloro che occupino cariche pubbliche temporanee saranno automaticamente
ammessi a reggere le magistrature corrispondenti, senza bisogno di formali
elezioni. I magistrati così investiti della carica diverranno
automaticamente membri del Senato, senza necessità di attendere la scadenza
del loro mandato. Dal momento della ratifica della presente Costituzione
fino alla prima elezione popolare, il Senato potrà nominare i titolari delle
magistrature vacanti, secondo la necessità, con propri Senatus Consulta.
Articolo 2. I cittadini.
1) Nella valutazione delle richieste di cittadinanza, Nova Roma non
effettuerà alcuna discriminazione in base alla razza, al sesso, all'età (ad
eccezione dei casi in cui il compimento di una determinata età sia
prescritto dalle norme di legge di determinati Paesi), alle abitudini
sessuali. Potranno essere operate discriminazioni sulla base del credo
religioso, quando sia accertato che un determinato credo è contrario agli
interessi della ricostruzione della romanità. Tali discriminazioni saranno
poste in essere dai Censori e/o da appositi Senatus Consulta.
2) Possono essere cittadini tutti coloro che abbiano compiuto il
diciottesimo anno di età e che abbiano espresso interesse nello studio e
nella pratica della civiltà romana classica, ivi compresi, a titolo
esemplificativo, i suoi aspetti religiosi, politici e culturali. Coloro che
abbiano compiuto il quindicesimo anno di età ma non il diciottesimo anno di
età potranno richiedere la cittadinanza con il permesso scritto dei genitori
o di chi esercita la potestà dei genitori. Non possono ottenere la
cittadinanza coloro che non abbiano compiuto il quindicesimo anno di età ma
costoro potranno essere inclusi in una gens con il permesso scritto dei loro
genitori o di chi esercita la potestà dei genitori, nonché del paterfamilias
o della materfamilias della gens in questione.
3) Ciascun cittadino può, in ogni tempo, rinunciare alla cittadinanza
dandone comunicazione scritta ad un Censore. In tal caso non sarà rimborsata
alcuna somma precedentemente pagata a Nova Roma a titolo di tassa o ad altro
titolo.
4) La cittadinanza può essere revocata, senza diritto ad alcun rimborso di
alcuna somma precedentemente pagata a Nova Roma a titolo di tassa o ad altro
titolo, nei seguenti casi: i) a seguito di apposito Senatus Consultum; ii) a
seguito di giudizio, emesso da un magistrato nel corso di un processo che si
sia svolto secondo le leges Novae Romae, in esito al quale l'imputato sia
stato riconosciuto colpevole di un crimine per il quale è prevista tale
punizione; iii) a seguito di un giudizio sommario da parte di un magistrato
che abbia colto l'interessato in flagranza di reato (così come definita
dall'ordinamento civile) nel corso di manifestazioni patrocinate da Nova
Roma. Il provvedimento di revoca della cittadinanza è, in ogni caso,
appellabile innanzi ai Comitia Centuriata.
5) Ciascun nuovo cittadino che non sia già ricompreso in una delle gentes
esistenti, sarà considerato paterfamilias o materfamilias di una nuova gens
e dovrà registrarsi presso i Censori.
6) Sono garantiti i seguenti diritti di ciascun cittadino, senza che ciò
pregiudichi la possibilità di riconoscimento degli altri diritti che
competono ad ognuno: i) autorità indiscussa di ciascuno in materia di
convinzioni individuali e familiari, relativi rituali e credenze, ad
eccezione del caso in cui la presente Costituzione prescriva la
partecipazione ai riti della Religio Romana, come nel caso dei magistrati e
dei senatori; ii) il diritto e l'obbligo di rimanere soggetti alla civil law
ed ai correlativi diritti e doveri vigenti nei Paesi in cui il cittadino
risiede ed ha cittadinanza propria, senza alcun riguardo per lo status di
doppia cittadinanza rispetto a Nova Roma; iii) il diritto di partecipare con
il proprio voto, quali membri delle varie assemblee, alla decisione sulle
materie rimesse alla decisione popolare secondo quanto previsto dalla
presente Costituzione; iv) il diritto di partecipare a tutte le discussioni
pubbliche ed il diritto di pretendere che le sedi ove tali discussioni si
svolgono siano mantenute dallo Stato; il contenuto di tali discussioni,
indipendentemente da quale esso sia, non potrà essere sindacato dallo Stato,
salvo il caso che ciò comporti un grave ed imminente pericolo per la
Repubblica; v) il diritto di istituire nuovi territori soggetti alla
sovranità di Nova Roma; ciò potrà essere fatto mediante l'erezione ed il
mantenimento di templi dediti alla religione romana, secondo le direttive
del Pontefice Massimo e dell'ordine sacerdotale, ovvero mediante la
dichiarazione di territorialità temporanea di aree adibite a riti pubblici o
privati, per tutta la durata di tali riti; vi) il diritto di rimanere
sovrano e sicuro all'interno della propria abitazione, rispetto alla propria
persona e con riguardo alla propria proprietà; vii)il diritto di richiedere
e ricevere assistenza ed ausilio dal Senato in materia di controversie
religiose o sociali che avvengano tanto all'interno quanto all'esterno della
giurisdizione di Nova Roma; viii) il diritto di intraprendere attività
commerciali all'interno di Nova Roma ed il diritto di attendersi un
ragionevole aiuto per la costituzione di un saldo sistema economico
attraverso il commercio di beni e servizi di ispirazione romanistica; in
ogni caso, i materiali informativi ed ogni altro bene sottoposto a diritti
d'autore da parte dello Stato, rimmarrà sempre di proprietà dello Stato
stesso; i cittadini che si dedichino ad attività commerciali, potranno
essere ammessi nell'Ordo Equester, secondo quanto previsto dalla presente
Costituzione.
7) L'ammissione all'Ordo Equester è subordinata all'adempimento delle
seguenti obbligazioni: i) i cittadini che desiderino far parte dell'Ordo
Equester dovranno aver iniziato e continuato un'attività commerciale che,
direttamente od indirettamente, sia di sostegno allo Stato ovvero promuova
la cultura, la religione ed altri aspetti oggetto di studio sulla Roma
classica; ii) i cittadini che desiderino far parte dell'Ordo Equester
dovranno dimostrare quanto sopra ai Censori; iii) i cittadini potranno
legittimamente atendersi un incoraggiamento da parte dello Stato nelle forme
e nei modi decisi dal Senato e consistenti, tra l'altro, nella concessione
di spazi pubblicitari a prezzi vantaggiosi nelle pubblicazioni ufficiali; i
membri dell'Ordo Equester dovranno contribuire al benessere economico dello
Stato in misura maggiore rispetto agli altri cittadini.

Subject:	2nd Fall of Rome?/2 a worried Uncle Saevus :-)
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:56:54 -0600

Salvete --


Dear, dear Saevus!!! Don't shake your head too hard. I don't think Nova
Roma is falling. She (is NR a 'she'? -- and PLEASE don't start a NR
gender argument <G>) is a toddler at best (yup, I'm full of mommy
comparisons. Stick to what ya know, I say -- and ask about what ya
don't), maybe even just starting to crawl. Babies stumble and sometimes
fall flat on their little faces, look around to see if anyone saw them
(and so know how much the fall hurt -- the more witnesses the worse it
hurt), then they tend to get up and give it another shot (or milk the
unfortunate witness for sympathy <G>). Next thing ya know, they're not
only walking, their running!!!!!!!


How many times did the 9/10 month old US stumble? Or the Brazil? Pick
your country. Surely they didn't just make a government and it was
smooth sailing from there on. If it was, I'm gonna make a country next
time, instead of a baby!! <G>


Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: Ballot and resignation of candidacy
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:59:14 -0800

That's a response. Yep.

Ericius

Lucius wrote:

> From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
> >From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
> >
> >Claudia wrote:
> >>
> >> I appreciate the support, but don't waste your time or your vote. I had
> >> thought that we were friends --well, as friendly as you can get online!
> >>
> >> As I understand it, the objections to my running as Consul seemed to be:
> >> 1)
> >> 2) that I ws running as an independent candidate,
> >> 3) they seemed to be under the impression that, as editor of the Eagle
> >> and keeper of the database.
> >> I'm not accepting any more private e-mail or ICQ messages about this.
> >> -- flavia Claudia
> >
> >I believe that Cincinatus and Palladius should reply to this on the List.
> >Caius Aelius Ericius
>
> Salvete
> So, how does one respond to something like this? Why don't you just ask
> me something like... So, when did you stop beating your wife? OR... Are you
> still taking drugs?
> F Claudia Juliana withdrew her candidacy, that says it all.
>
> Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Ballot and resignation of candidacy
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:21:42 -0000

Salvete omnes!

People of Rome, beware of the triumvirates!

Ave Flavia Claudia! Ave Flavius Germanicus!

People of Rome, you still can show your will in the ellections!

If you are a true Republican, vote for Flavia Claudia! No votes for the
enemies of the Res Publica!

Ave Res Publica! Ave Roma!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

Subject:	Corrected Ballot
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:42:06 -0500 (EST)

Salvete! The general consensus here on the list is that the corrected
ballot be sent out to the people. It need be no more than one page on
plain white paper, just an explanation at the top of why it's being sent
and the ballot. Here is my draft for the ballot. I received my copy of the
Eagle today, so time is of the essence.

I have left Claudia's name on this sample ballot, despite her
withdrawl, to alleviate confusion. Does this ballot look correct to you
overall?

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nova Roma Sample Ballot

Candidates for Consul: Vote for NO MORE THAN 2.
[ ] Claudia Juliana, Flavia.
[ ] Equitius Cincinnatus, Lucius.
[ ] Iunius Palladius, Decius.

Candidates for Praetor Urbanus: Vote For NO MORE THAN 2.
[ ] Claudia Lucentia Aprica, Quinta.
[ ] Cornelius Sulla, Lucius.
[ ] Mucius Scaevola Magister, Marcus.

Candidates for Quaestor: Vote For NO MORE THAN 3.
[ ] Cassia, Patricia. Patrician.
[ ] Minucius Audens, Marcus.
[ ] Ullerius Venator, Stephanus.

Plebeian Magistrates (plebeians only may vote for these)

Candidates for Tribune of the Plebs: Vote for No More Than 2.
[ ] Caecilius Metellus, Quintus.
[ ] Gryllus Graechus, Antonius.
[ ] Tullius Callidus, Avidius.

Candidates for Plebeian Aedile: Vote For No more Than 1.
[ ] Gryllus Graechus, Antonius.

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:55:36 -0500 (EST)

I do not have at my fingertips all the candidates so I trust you for
that. Otherwise it looks like a good ballot, much simpler than our
current mechanical horrors that are in use for United tates elections.

For my part at least, I thank you for the effort and appreciate your
interest.

Marcus Mincius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:20:45 -0500

-----------------------------------------------an impersonal, objective post
to the Nova Roma list follows this separator. If having read the post you
feel that it is personal, you have misunderstood and should either re-read
it or re-boot your
computer------------------------------------------------------

Salvete

This is how I think that it should look:

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Nova Roma Sample Ballot
>
> Candidates for Consul: all citizens vote for one candidate:
> [ ] Claudia Juliana, Flavia.
> [ ] Equitius Cincinnatus, Lucius.
> [ ] Iunius Palladius, Decius.
[ ] Write in________________________________
>
> Candidates for Praetor Urbanus: all citizens vote for one candidate:
> [ ] Claudia Lucentia Aprica, Quinta.
> [ ] Cornelius Sulla, Lucius.
> [ ] Mucius Scaevola Magister, Marcus.
[ ] Write in________________________________
>
> Candidates for Quaestor: all citizens vote for one candidate:
> [ ] Cassia, Patricia. Patrician.
> [ ] Minucius Audens, Marcus.
> [ ] Ullerius Venator, Stephanus.
[ ] Write in________________________________
>
> Plebeian Magistrates
>
> Candidates for Tribune of the Plebs: plebeian citizens vote for one
candidate:
> [ ] Caecilius Metellus, Quintus.
> [ ] Gryllus Graechus, Antonius.
> [ ] Tullius Callidus, Avidius.
[ ] Write in________________________________
>
> Candidates for Plebeian Aedile: plebeian citizens vote for one
candidate:
> [ ] Gryllus Graechus, Antonius.
[ ] Write in________________________________
>
>


The ballots would be counted, and the two candidates for Consul with the
most votes would be Consuls next year, the two with the most for Tribune
would be Tribunes next year etc.

I do not believe that this 'disenfranchises' anyone; could someone explain,
if it does, then how so?

Also, Praetores Urbani and candidates to that high seat, do any of you know
what a Roman ballot looked like? How about even a basic description? Did
anyone do any research into this, and, if so, please comment.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Legions-No!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:00:08 -0500 (EST)

You are absolutly right! I misunderstood the gentleman's post, and I
have received several private messages notifying me of the mistake. I
have replied to the gentleman and apologized and am now indicating to
all who contacted me that my post was written in haste. The gentleman's
original discussion defended the position that I too was defending, and
therefore there was no conflict. However, all was not in vain. This
"fo-pah" has given me the chance to talk one-on-one with some very nice
people which re-enforces my feeling that Nova Roma is a great place to
be, and that Internet Posts should be read and re-read and re-read again
before a hasty answer.

Although I admit to the above mistake, it still would have been fun, I
believe, to have had a debate in this forum under the strict rulership
of a neutral judge who would insure no insults and no below-the-belt
tactics, with specific rounds and a panel to award points. I am aware
that an effort like this would probably not be all that productive and
yet the problems that we encounter as a result of "hasty" words that
hurt the feelings of others, can never be measured.

In all sincerity, I remain your most humble and obedient servant;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Standing for the Position of Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Plebs and Patricians
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:11:23 -0500 (EST)

My Dear L. Sergius Aust.

My response was to Dexippus who had observed that we should be married
actually. I thought that most Nova Romans were very cognizant of our
collective "sweetie's" posts but perhaps I err. I was for awhile
trailing posts behind me like "devils" on a chinese riverboat before
another Nva Roma friend called my attention to it. Perhaps I have
over-compensated. At any rate your continued interest in my posts is
much appreciated and I shall endeavor in the future not to confuse my
public.

Your Servant;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Standing for the Position of Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:47:47 -0500

>Salve Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>The ballots would be counted, and the two candidates for Consul with the
>most votes would be Consuls next year, the two with the most for Tribune
>would be Tribunes next year etc.
>
That is how it is done now.

>I do not believe that this 'disenfranchises' anyone; could someone
explain,
>if it does, then how so?
>
Candidates must first register with the Censores.

>Also, Praetores Urbani and candidates to that high seat, do any of you know
>what a Roman ballot looked like?

Votes were either given orally or on a Wax tablet depending on
circumstances.

Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Hurrah!
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:57:48 PST

Salvete!

Well as you know, my memory card is being sent back as it is faulty.
Since we but hardware from a mail order firm, we assumed this would take
a few weeks as they would expect to receive the faulty goods before
replcaing them.
Well, thanks to the wonderful people at Dabs Direct PLC, our new memory
card arrived today, just as I was off to the post box to post the old
one back.

So I am still here. You can’t get rid of me yet!

Noct’a!



Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae

__________________________________________________


To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man’s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor’s by history?

Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________

You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods

Hàvamàl (The words of the God Odin)

__________________________________________________


Quote of all time!

Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.

(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)

Vergil

__________________________________________________________
And especially for my friend Venator;


"The ill-minded man who meanly thinks,
fleers at both foul and fair;
he does not know,
as know he ought,
that he is not free from flaws."
-The Sayings of the High One

___________________________________________________________
And for those who believe they have little to offer,

"Not great things needs give to a man:
bringeth thanks oft a little thing;
with half a loaf and a half-drained cup
I won me oft worthy friend."
Havamal

Subject:	Re: ballots and candidates
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:00:10 EST

In a message dated 98-11-30 01:32:27 EST, you write:

<< certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>>

And Toto replies:

"Gee you dumb witted pom-pom! Whatever gave you that idea?"

--Dexippus

<<Dear Dorothy -- Hat you! Hate Oz! Took the slippers! Find your own damn
way home! --Toto>>

Subject:	Re: [Fwd: Firecherries]
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:01:36 EST

In a message dated 98-11-30 02:09:44 EST, you write:

<< Here's the directions for making Firecherries.

Take a pint jar of Maraschino cherries and pour off half the juice.
Put in 1/2 tsp of applepie spice powder and 1 1/2 tsp honey.
Top off with Everclear (190 proof grain alcohol).
Recap and shake until well mixed.
Let marinate for 2 weeks.
Enjoy, in moderation. >>

Oh yes! These are Fierce! Highly recommendable!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:10:00 -0800

Salve D. Iunius Palladius:

The new ballot looks fine to me.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

Subject:	Re: Hurrah!
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:15:41 -0800

Hailsa Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia!

You'd be proud, my Varangians and I left the place clean last night. We
even disposed of the reamins of the buffet. I left two Senators and a
Praetor candidate in the Taverna when I left, but they seemed men of
moderate habits.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

Subject:	Re: Hurrah!
From:	Robert Woolwine alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:05:04 -0800

Congrats...hope to see you in the Taverna really soon! :)

Venator...you dont need to take her place now.. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia wrote:

> From: "Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
>
> Salvete!
>
> Well as you know, my memory card is being sent back as it is faulty.
> Since we but hardware from a mail order firm, we assumed this would take
> a few weeks as they would expect to receive the faulty goods before
> replcaing them.
> Well, thanks to the wonderful people at Dabs Direct PLC, our new memory
> card arrived today, just as I was off to the post box to post the old
> one back.
>
> So I am still here. You can’t get rid of me yet!
>
> Noct’a!
>
> Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
> Noct'a to her friends
> Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
> Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
> always a child. For what is the meaning of a man’s life unless it is
> intertwined with that of our ancestor’s by history?
>
> Cicero
> Orator 120
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
> Very great staves, very strong staves
> Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
> Carved by the prophet of the Gods
>
> Hàvamàl (The words of the God Odin)
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Quote of all time!
>
> Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
> marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
> et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
> memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
> et debellare superbos.
>
> (Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
> delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
> causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
> tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
> nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
> tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)
>
> Vergil
>
> __________________________________________________________
> And especially for my friend Venator;
>
> "The ill-minded man who meanly thinks,
> fleers at both foul and fair;
> he does not know,
> as know he ought,
> that he is not free from flaws."
> -The Sayings of the High One
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> And for those who believe they have little to offer,
>
> "Not great things needs give to a man:
> bringeth thanks oft a little thing;
> with half a loaf and a half-drained cup
> I won me oft worthy friend."
> Havamal
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.

Subject:	Re: Ballot and resignation of candidacy
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:34:38 -0500

Domitianus wrote:

> .... Each of us contribute to Nova Roma what we wish to and it is my
>hope that we can find ways to each work together to make Nova Roma
>evolve to its fullest potential. ....
>Is it not possible for all of you for the remainder of the election just
>stick to issues about what You would like to do and when there is a
>debate just make it simple with I disagree because...--- I think there
>would be a lot more interest if it was kept to that format. Could anyone
>disagree????

I agree with this but just wanted to add - don't be too disheartened. The
candidates for Tribune, as I understand it, (I hope!), are doing "political
re-enactment" of the electoral style of the later Republic, only really
toned down, i.e. without bribery, riots, assassinations or malicious
prosecutions. When we've approached "real politics" of the sort people
really fight each other about, as in the discussions of language and
religion, people have been quick to back off from extreme positions. I
think F. Claudia Juliana is mistaken to withdraw [not resign] her candidacy
on the basis of unpublished threats of future accusations, as I would hope
the (alleged) author would have more sense than to make the accusations in
public. Some people are perhaps getting a little overexcited, but the end
of the election is (fairly) nigh...

> Our ballot issue- hey mistakes happen. Let's just go and remail those
>notices and if needed ask publicly for a special donation to pay for
>this. As a matter of fact maybe there should be a once a year
>fundraising drive in lieu of membership fees- totally voluntary and a
>general amount of money asked for for each citizen based on paticipation
>and ability to pay- totally voluntary guidelines. - I don't think asking
>for $15 a year extra for an ordinary citizen up to no more than $25 for
>someone expected as in our websight guidelines to contribute a little
>more. Any of our candidates agree? We do need the funds from somewhere
>to do just about anything and with let's say even 100 citizens
>contributing we'd at least have $1500 or so dollars in choices to make-
>how about it?

I also agree with all of this. Do we have any mechanism by which I could
send money from the UK without putting a large chunk of it into the
bankers' pockets?

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Hurrah!
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:04:55 -0800

Shucks! Just when I thoght we'd have some peace!

Ericius

[This has been a test of your senses of humor and your knowledge
of your fellow citizens.]

Subject:	Re: Ballot and resignation of candidacy
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:09:24 -0500 (EST)

In reply to your enquiry about sending funds fom England I sent a
Traveler's Check to the Royal Engineer's Library for services rendered
and they apparently cashed it without a problem.

As my Travel Agent wife has warned me, however, Traveler's Checks may
not usually be purchased in small amounts in the U.S. I am not
familiar with the policies in England. I do know it is a lot easier in
London to cash T.C.'s than it is in New York, and people are a lot
nicer. I have been prvaledged to visit London on 6 occasions and the
experience has always been great. I live about 200 miles from New York
and have only visited it twice, both times under duress!

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:07:44 -0500

Salvete Luci Equiti et alii


>>The ballots would be counted, and the two candidates for Consul with the
>>most votes would be Consuls next year, the two with the most for Tribune
>>would be Tribunes next year etc.
>>
>That is how it is done now.

Marcus Cassius Iulianus stated in his post Saturday that he was initiating a
discussion period, to end tonight 11.30.98, on how the ballot should be
structured; in light of which, it seems that it has not yet been decided
how it will be done on the actual ballot.
>
>>I do not believe that this 'disenfranchises' anyone; could someone
>explain,
>>if it does, then how so?
>>
>Candidates must first register with the Censores.

I'm sorry Luci Equiti, I got lost. One argument raised against having
voters cast one vote each for candidates to offices with multiple positions
was that doing so would disenfranchise voters; my question was, how would
doing so disenfranchise voters. I do not understand the connection to
registering candidacy with the Censores.
>
>>Also, Praetores Urbani and candidates to that high seat, do any of you
know
>>what a Roman ballot looked like?
>
>Votes were either given orally or on a Wax tablet depending on
>circumstances.

OK, well, I guess that this is one instance in which we'll deviate from
Roman practice for the sake of efficiency. I certainly am not about to
volunteer in the wax tablet making process. But, do you know about the
content, or structure, of the ballots in Roma Antiqua?
>
>Valete L Equitius Cincinnatus
>
>
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Campaign of Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica for Praetor Urbanus
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:14:23 -0500

Salvete, Quirites!

Aprica wrote ...

> Other administration which needs attention before law cases can
>effectively be carried out in Nova Roma includes most importantly the
>proper organisation of the various comitia, including a clear
>statement of their functions and the mechanisms by which they can
>vote. The current constitution is woefully vague, and at times even
>contradictory, regarding the comitia, and if elected, I would make it
>one of my first priorities to work in conjunction with other
>magistrates in order to get these vital assemblies up and running at
>last.

I want to indicate my agreement at least in part with this proposal. Recent
events have made it all too clear that the Constitution is so obscure on
the Comitia as to cause unnecessary disputes. Agreement in part, however,
because if we made our Constitution perfectly clear and consistent, we
would be untrue to the spirit of Roma Antiqua, and a perfectly clear
division of functions between the Comitia Centuriata, Comitia Populi
[Tributa] and Comitia [Concilium] Plebis could not be achieved without
major departure from the Republican Roman Constitution.
This matter also relates to the proposal listed on Palladius' web
page on the elections (but without a text there) to create a "supremacy
clause" making the Constitution supreme law. Suppose we made the
Constitution "supreme law" - what is our "supreme court"? The answer in the
constitution of Roma Antiqua, and ours, must be - the Comitia Centuriata.
In the later Roman Republic laws of constitutional importance usually went
through the Comitia Centuriata, while other laws usually went through the
Concilium Plebis (why not the Comitia Tributa, the historians don't know).
We could if we wished make our Constitution more Roman by restricting
Constitutional amendments to the Comitia Centuriata, voting perhaps by
special procedure or with a special majority. Putting in a "supremacy
clause" would add nothing and be un-Roman.

Valete,

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
Candidate for Praetor Urbanus

Subject:	Re: Plebs and Patricians
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:06:37 EST

In a message dated 98-11-30 15:11:40 EST, you write:

<< My response was to Dexippus who had observed that we should be married
actually. I thought that most Nova Romans were very cognizant of our
collective "sweetie's" posts but perhaps I err. >>


HA HA HA HE HE HE! I blinded you with my beauty again, didn't I Audens?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:34:15 -0500

Merullus suggests the following form of ballot:

>>Nova Roma Sample Ballot
>>
>> Candidates for Consul: all citizens vote for one candidate:
>> [ ] Claudia Juliana, Flavia.
>> [ ] Equitius Cincinnatus, Lucius.
>> [ ] Iunius Palladius, Decius.
> [ ] Write in________________________________

and asks,

>Also, Praetores Urbani and candidates to that high seat, do any of you
know
>what a Roman ballot looked like? How about even a basic description? Did
>anyone do any research into this, and, if so, please comment.

I don't know what a ballot in Roma Antiqua was like (or thought to be
like!), though my hazy recollection of past reading is that the candidates
were announced orally, so there wouldn't be a ballot "paper" like this, and
votes cast in cista (hence the page on the website). But I don't think
Roman procedure would have allowed for write-ins & I'm not clear why
Merullus thinks we need this option. Further argument please?

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:15:44 -0800

Can those who are going to vote via puter just go ahead and cast
their ballots once the polls open, even if they do not have the
new, corrected Eagle?

Ericius.

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:10:06 EST

Gaius Marius Merullus rmerullo@-------- wrote:
>
>-----------------------------------------------an impersonal, objective post
>to the Nova Roma list follows this separator. If having read the post you
>feel that it is personal, you have misunderstood and should either re-read
>it or re-boot your
>computer------------------------------------------------------
Bravo!
>
>Salvete
>
>This is how I think that it should look:
>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Nova Roma Sample Ballot
>>
>> Candidates for Consul: all citizens vote for one candidate:
>> [ ] Claudia Juliana, Flavia.
>> [ ] Equitius Cincinnatus, Lucius.
>> [ ] Iunius Palladius, Decius.
> [ ] Write in________________________________
>>
[SNIP!]

Salve, Gaius Marius.

At the risk of igniting one of those tiresome discussions (not with you
personally, Gaius Marius), I don't think the write-in option could be
allowed and still stay within the process described in the Constitution,
the other sections of the Web site, and the Mas Maiorem.

To be electable, candidates must have declared themselves, been
officially "vetted" as eligible candidates, and have participated in the
campaigning. Write-in candidates get around all that. And with our small
population, such a candidate might easily be elected by a comparitively
small bloc of dedicated supporters, without ever going through the
prescribed process to become a candidate.

Personally, I am inclined to like the freedom of a write-in option, but
as a Roman, I must argue for us to follow our laws (however fuzzy they
may be in parts). That is part of the essence of Roma -- that we conduct
our business lawfully.

Vale.

L. Sergius Aust.



si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

(If it ain't broke, don't fix it.)

Subject:	Re: ballots and candidates
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:10:08 EST

Dexippus@--------

>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-11-30 01:32:27 EST, you write:
>
><< certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
> (You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
> >>
>
>And Toto replies:
>
>"Gee you dumb witted pom-pom! Whatever gave you that idea?"
>
>--Dexippus
>
><<Dear Dorothy -- Hat you! Hate Oz! Took the slippers! Find your own damn
>way home! --Toto>>


:-)

Subject:	Re: Campaign of Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica for Praetor Urbanus
From:	Robert Woolwine alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:14:17 -0800

Mike Macnair wrote:

> From: Mike Ma--------r MikeMa--------r@--------
>
> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> Aprica wrote ...
>
> > Other administration which needs attention before law cases can
> >effectively be carried out in Nova Roma includes most importantly the
> >proper organisation of the various comitia, including a clear
> >statement of their functions and the mechanisms by which they can
> >vote. The current constitution is woefully vague, and at times even
> >contradictory, regarding the comitia, and if elected, I would make it
> >one of my first priorities to work in conjunction with other
> >magistrates in order to get these vital assemblies up and running at
> >last.
>
> I want to indicate my agreement at least in part with this proposal. Recent
> events have made it all too clear that the Constitution is so obscure on
> the Comitia as to cause unnecessary disputes. Agreement in part, however,
> because if we made our Constitution perfectly clear and consistent, we
> would be untrue to the spirit of Roma Antiqua, and a perfectly clear
> division of functions between the Comitia Centuriata, Comitia Populi
> [Tributa] and Comitia [Concilium] Plebis could not be achieved without
> major departure from the Republican Roman Constitution.
> This matter also relates to the proposal listed on Palladius' web
> page on the elections (but without a text there) to create a "supremacy
> clause" making the Constitution supreme law. Suppose we made the
> Constitution "supreme law" - what is our "supreme court"? The answer in the
> constitution of Roma Antiqua, and ours, must be - the Comitia Centuriata.
> In the later Roman Republic laws of constitutional importance usually went
> through the Comitia Centuriata, while other laws usually went through the
> Concilium Plebis (why not the Comitia Tributa, the historians don't know).
> We could if we wished make our Constitution more Roman by restricting
> Constitutional amendments to the Comitia Centuriata, voting perhaps by
> special procedure or with a special majority. Putting in a "supremacy
> clause" would add nothing and be un-Roman.

The problem is now we are mixing modern day political theory with Ancient
Roma...Ancient Roma did not have a written Constitution so this problem did not
ever concern them.....in Today's modern Constitutional government. it is a
matter of great concern. Look at the differences between a Constitution that
did not have a Clause (the Articles of Confederation) and the Modern
Constitution of the US. This is a problem we at NR are facing...and dealing
with....this is a Modern problem..with very little bearing in the past to guide
us.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidiate for Praetor Urbanis


>
> Valete,
>
> M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
> Candidate for Praetor Urbanus
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:46:50 -0500

LSergAust@-------- wrote:
>
>
> At the risk of igniting one of those tiresome discussions (not with you
> personally, Gaius Marius), I don't think the write-in option could be
> allowed and still stay within the process described in the Constitution,
> the other sections of the Web site, and the Mas Maiorem.
>

Shoot. There goes my write-in Consular vote for Pee Wee Herman.

-- F. Claudia

Subject:	OFF TOPIC. Relaxation Excercise.
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:09:52 -0800

HUMOR WARNING. ENGAGE SENSE OF HUMOR.


Stress Management at its finest.

Picture yourself near a stream. Birds are softly chirping in the
crisp, cool
mountain air. Nothing can bother you here. No one knows this
secret place.
You are in total seclusion from that place called "the world".
The soothing
sound of a gentle waterfall fills the air with a cascade of
serenity. The
water is clear. You can easily make out the face of the person
whose head you
are holding under the water.

There now . . . Feeling better?

Subject:	Interesting sites
From:	Venator amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:35:42 -0800

Hailsa All!

I was cruising and found a couple of interesting sites;

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1274/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1274/</a>
maps of Rome
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/</a>
Legion diagrammed
<a href="http://www.freeweb.org/letteratura/romaeterna/english.htm" target="_top" >http://www.freeweb.org/letteratura/romaeterna/english.htm</a>
Gen'l Rome site

Hope they're of use
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| ___ ___ |
| /'( _ )'\ Benedictus et Pacem |
| / . \/^\/ . \ |
| / _)_'-'_(_ \ Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator |
| /.-' ).( '-.\ |
| /' /\_/\ '\ Citizen - Paterfamilias |
| "-V-" |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| omnes Minervae homo - Petronius |
| non ut vivam edo, sed ut edam vivo - Venator |
| nunc est bibendum - Horace |
| in vino veritas, in cervisia felicitas, |
| in ipocras afflatus - A. Nonius Mus |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

Subject:	Re: splitting things up
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:13:03 EST

In a message dated 11/30/98 6:01:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
p--------@-------- writes:

<< The volume of mail is too much -- even
for me, and I'm a confirmed web-geek. So I think at some point we're
going to have to create some interest groups.

Patricia Cassia >>
I think once the elections are over we can go back to the low post volume we
had before. Personally I thought the list was for all things Nova Roma not
just Reglio.
I doubt that we need to spilt this up, divide to conquer as the saying goes!!
In service!
P. A. Olivia