Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Corrected Ballot
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:19:52 EST

In a message dated 11/30/98 10:47:43 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< Shoot. There goes my write-in Consular vote for Pee Wee Herman. >>

And mine for RuPaul!

--Dexippus

<>


Subject:	Re: It's Crys/Be nice to me/Dr. report
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:31:49 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/1/98 8:05:59 PM Centr--------t--------rd Time, M--------2Two@--------
writes:

>
>
>
> <A HREF="<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/roma/sodwel.htm">Sodalis" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/roma/sodwel.htm">Sodalis</a> Pro
> Infantia </A>

That bright blue lettering on a purple field is pretty, but very hard for my
old eyes to see well. Other than that, I think it'll be a great page!

Secunda Floria Zonara


Subject:	Re: BALLOT DECISION
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:24:56 -0600 (CST)

>Not to worry, your vote went fine! The system is up and running
>without a hitch! :)

...Except for one little thing: the absence of Flavia Claudia from the
list of candidates for Consul. I've been told and told that she was
going to be left on all versions of the ballot "to avoid confusion",
and when I went online to vote today I did not find that to be the
case.

Failing an adjustment to the online ballot, when might I reasonably
expect to receive a paper ballot I can use (or e-mail equivalent)?

Sign me 'One Stubborn Roman...'
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: BALLOT DECISION
From:
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:46:06 EST

In a message dated 12/2/98 2:41:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
legion6@-------- write--------r>
<< From: legion6@--------

>Not to worry, your vote went fine! The system is up and running
>without a hitch! :)

>...Except for one little thing: the absence of Flavia Claudia from the
list of candidates for Consul. I've been told and told that she was
going to be left on all versions of the ballot "to avoid confusion",
and when I went online to vote today I did not find that to be the
case.

I have no idea who told you that Flavia Claudia was going to be left on the
ballot. It certainly wasn't me. There will be enough difficulty tallying votes
without having to sort out running/not running candidates...

> Failing an adjustment to the online ballot, when might I reasonably
expect to receive a paper ballot I can use (or e-mail equivalent)?

A paper ballot has been mailed to you in the Election copy of the Eagle.
Please do note that your vote for Flavia Claudia will simply not be counted
since she's firmly declared herself out of the race. Not to worry though, this
certainly isn't the last we'll hear from her! Very likely she'll run for a
Magistracy again next year, once we have the voting process sorted out and
things won't be quite so insane. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: BALLOT DECISION
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 02 Dec 1998 07:49:53 -0500

legion6@-------- wrote:
>
>
> ...Except for one little thing: the absence of Flavia Claudia from the
> list of candidates for Consul. I've been told and told that she was
> going to be left on all versions of the ballot "to avoid confusion",
> and when I went online to vote today I did not find that to be the
> case.
>
> Failing an adjustment to the online ballot, when might I reasonably
> expect to receive a paper ballot I can use (or e-mail equivalent)?
>
> Sign me 'One Stubborn Roman...'

Wow! If I ever want to cross the Rubicon and take Rome, I sure hope I
have Marius as my General. What a Master of Horse or Praetorian this one
would make!

Thanks so much for your support, honorable Marius Fimbria. I hope I can
count on it for next year, when my Vestal term is up and I can run again
with no objections? (Huh. Guess I just lost the element of surprise for
the next elections.)

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs.
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:17:00 -0000

Salve cives!

Do never forget those who sacrificed their personal ambitions for the wellfare of the Res Publica. Remember Flavia Claudia and Flavius Germanicus. Remember what happenned recently:

>-- but Palladius and Cincinnatus made it very clear by their actions
>that if I was elected, neither of them was willing to work with me,
>their public statements to the contrary: either they're a team or
>nothing, I guess. But I did ask Palladius about the accusation of voter
>fraud, and he said that his running mate had indeed planned to make that
>objection.
>Palladius is apparently upset that I made this public, but I'm real,
>real sick of this backroom politics thing. If they can say it in
>private, they might as well come clean in public. It isn't a personal
>thing, after all, it has to do with public office.
>As I understand it, the objections to my running as Consul seemed to be:
>1) that I'm already a Vestal, however, nothing in our constution says
>that a Vestal can't run for office, and many priests did hold office in
>Rome. I think one of our present candidates is Flamen Martialis
>2) that I ws running as an independent candidate. Again, nothing in the
>Constution says you have to run as a team. Especially in an unopposed
>race, this kind of smacks of collusion. If they're a team, Nova Roma had
>no real choice without a third candidate.
>3) they seemed to be under the impression that, as editor of the Eagle
>and keeper of the database. I knew what the voter codes would be. I
>suppose they figured that I'd just fiddle around with the votes so I'd
>be sure to win. Hey, thanks a lot for the confidence in my honesty,
>guys. Really appreciate it. However, the voter codes were assigned by
>Cassius AFTER I'd given him the Citizen database. I have no idea who has
>what code. But as the entire Senate has access to the database (I've
>given the list to them more than once) they probably have as good an
>access to the codes as I do.
>
>Flavia Claudia

All the arguments they presented are false! And they even tried to cover this issue!
The Senators may have access to the codes, which means that they can know who votes in who. They are also candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of powers?
Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of Dictatorship. Do it through your vote:

Vote the following:

Consuls:
No votes!!! Scandal after scandal, Consul candidates have more than once menaced the sovereignty of the People and the Constitution, showing pro-dictatorship tendencies, specially Senator Lucius Cincinnatus. By imposing their work as a team they demand grabing all the power, or no power at all. Give them the latter.

Tribunes of the Plebs:
Antonius Gryllus Graecus and any candidate from the other two.

Plebeian Aediles:
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Other offices can be filled at will, as neither candidate has menaced the wellfare of the Res Publica. On the contrary, all have shown a desire to work more and better for Nova Roma.

Vote well to save the Res Publica! Rome needs you!

"People of Rome, beware of the Triumvirates!!" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:19:04 -0500

Ave Et Salvete

All the arguments they presented are false! And they even tried to cover this issue!
The Senators may have access to the codes, which means that they can know who votes in who. They are also candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of powers?

The SENATE does NOT have citizen data!
I never had nor do I now have any of the citizens data! I do know the address and phone number of the members of my own gens but I do not have their vote codes, that is sent to them by mail in the Eagle just like everyone else! I do not have the computer program to handle the information that was kept by Germanicus before he renounced his citizenship.

Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of Dictatorship. Do it through your vote:

Yes by all means vote! Every one!

Vote the following:

So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.

Consuls:
No votes!!! Scandal after scandal, Consul candidates have more than once menaced the sovereignty of the People and the Constitution, showing pro-dictatorship tendencies,
specially Senator Lucius Cincinnatus. By imposing their work as a team they demand grabing all the power, or no power at all. Give them the latter.

It was not my idea to have the elections this way (Consules running as a team)
it was the edict of Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus. Where do you get off saying this about me Graecus? You seen to be the one playing the demagogue not me.

Valete Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: History lesson: Dictatorships
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:11:25 EST

In a message dated 98-12-02 12:33:42 EST, you write:

<< Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of Dictatorship.
Do it through your vote: >>

I think Graecus is refering to a tyranny here not a dictatorship. The
Dictator in Rome is clearly defined. Originally adopted from the Latins, the
office was appointed by the Senate, after a nomination by a Consul, and only
in a major crisis. Usually this would be military in nature. What gave the
dictator such
power was his rulings could not be vetoed or appealed. However once the
crisis was past or 6 months elapsed, the Dictator was expected to step down
and gave the power back to the magistrates. If he did not, he could be
removed, usually by approved force by the Senate. My name sake was really the
last true dictator, he was appointed after the disaster of Cannae.

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus was a famous legendary dictator.
In 458 with the Consular army trapped by Aequi (an Oscan tribe) on Mt Algidus,
Cincinnatus (who was working on his farm in Latinum) was informed
of Senate's degree, and returned to Rome, raised an army of two Legiones,
(likely of young boys and old men) and set off to raise the seige.
He caught the Aequi by surprise, (with what they thought was the whole Roman
army before them, what passed for pickets then, probably weren't posted) and
routed them. After rescuing his colleague, he returned to Rome, turned down
the Senate's offer of a triumphus, disbanded his army, and returned to his
farm, after being in power for 16 days. This is often used
as great example of the Roman government's different offices of the Republic
working at their best.

Valete!
Q Fabius Maximus


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:33:10 -0000

Salvete omnes!
Salve Senators Palladi and Cincinnati!

>So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.
The voting I've SUGESTED I think is demanding to same the Res Publica from dictatorship and favoritism:
1st - If the Consuls are ellected with few votes, they will be more careful next time they think of changing the electoral laws at their will.
2nd - To vote me for Tribune is to counter balance the power of the Consuls, as I promise, dear Senators, if ellected I'll keep you always under my eyes!!! If you were honest you would agree that you deserve this. I think that both Palladius and Cincinnatus are capable and competent... But don't forget that Julius Caesar and Augustus were also capable.
3rd - While I have sugested a vote, you have forced it by ploting against Flavia Claudia whom I was going to vote for Consul.

> It was not my idea to have the elections this way (Consules running as a team)
> it was the edict of Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus. Where do you get off saying this about me Graecus? You seen to be
> the one playing the demagogue not me.
You have read what Flavia Claudia told about you. You had the idea of accusing her of ellectoral fraud.

Even if I am not ellected, I hope you learn something with this ellections. THE PEOPLE WANT A RES PUBLICA WHERE ALL CITIZENS COLLABORATE AS A TEAM. Nova Roma is the only team I know.

Valete omnes!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius v--------l@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 5:33 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is

Ave Et Salvete

All the arguments they presented are false! And they even tried to cover this issue!
The Senators may have access to the codes, which means that they can know who votes in who. They are also candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of powers?

The SENATE does NOT have citizen data!
I never had nor do I now have any of the citizens data! I do know the address and phone number of the members of my own gens but I do not have their vote codes, that is sent to them by mail in the Eagle just like everyone else! I do not have the computer program to handle the information that was kept by Germanicus before he renounced his citizenship.

Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of Dictatorship. Do it through your vote:

Yes by all means vote! Every one!

Vote the following:

So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.

Consuls:
No votes!!! Scandal after scandal, Consul candidates have more than once menaced the sovereignty of the People and the Constitution, showing pro-dictatorship tendencies,
specially Senator Lucius Cincinnatus. By imposing their work as a team they demand grabing all the power, or no power at all. Give them the latter.

It was not my idea to have the elections this way (Consules running as a team)
it was the edict of Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus. Where do you get off saying this about me Graecus? You seen to be the one playing the demagogue not me.

Valete Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: History lesson: Dictatorships
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:36:33 -0000

Salve Fabi Maxime!

Yes, that was tirany what I meant, or dictatorship with its nowadays meaning.

Gratias tibi!

Vale amice!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:20:55 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius [SMTP:v--------l@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 12:19 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such
> as it is
>
>
> The SENATE does NOT have citizen data!
>
But your running mate does. He's a Censor, right? You
and your running mate don't speak to each other? Maybe I should have
been the one to threaten voter fraud and collusion instead of you.

Actually,everyone should have Citizen Data in the form
of a Citizen's Directory,so we can all keep in touch. Every "club' has a
directory of members -- why shouldn't NR? It wouldn't include the voting
codes, but would list name, Roman name, address, e-mail, Provincia, and
URL, if any, and what interests the Citizen has (re-enactments, history,
politics, Latin, etc.)
>
> So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.
>
It's Graecus' right to endorse whatever candidates he
likes. I don't recall your being upset when your supporters urged people
to vote for you.
>
> It was not my idea to have the elections this way (Consules
> running as a team)
> it was the edict of Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus.
>
I don't recall who's idea it was, but don't keep blaming
this on Cassius. Cassius was ASKED about candidates for Consul running
as a team. When he was asked to post an opinion, he was at work where
he was unable to check his sources, and so he simply said it was okay to
run as a team. Later, after he checked historical sources, he went back
on this, saying that it wasn't REQUIRED to run as a team. I was allowed
to run as an independent candidate, soit couldn't have been a
requirement.

You're about to be Consul. Take responsiblity for your
decisions and stop blaming Cassius.

Running as a team merely improves the chances that a
political faction will be elected to office, and thus have more control
over the Senate and legislation.

Flavia Claudia Juliana


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:15:33 -0500

Salvete

>> The SENATE does NOT have citizen data!
>>
> But your running mate does. He's a Censor, right?

ALL I said was I did not and I do not have the Data. Our computer does not
have the program.

> Maybe I should have been the one to threaten voter fraud and collusion
instead of >you.
>
Where did you hear this? Not from me.
>
> Actually,everyone should have Citizen Data in the form
>of a Citizen's Directory,

I've already stated that citizens should know who their fellow century and
Tribe members are.
>>
> It's Graecus' right to endorse whatever candidates he
>likes.

This was not an endorsement but an attack.
>>
>> It was not my idea to have the elections this way (Consules
>> running as a team)
>> it was the edict of Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus.
>>
> I don't recall who's idea it was, but don't keep blaming
>this on Cassius.
>
---Check his post on the Thursday,October 15, 1998 12:07 PM---
"SENIOR CONSUL, JUNIOR CONSUL-Note, these candidates must run as a team.
No single applications please."

> You're about to be Consul. Take responsiblity for your
>decisions and stop blaming Cassius.

I do if I make one, which I did not in this case. I was not consulted.

"Cogita ante salis"

Vale L Equitius


Subject:	Re: History lesson: Dictatorships
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:17:12 -0500

Salvete

>SNIP< My name sake was really the last true dictator, he was appointed
after the disaster of Cannae.
>
Correct.

>Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus was a famous legendary dictator.

You mean Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus.

>In 458 with the Consular army trapped by Aequi (an Oscan tribe) on Mt
Algidus,
>Cincinnatus (who was working on his farm in Latinum) was informed
>of Senate's degree, and returned to Rome, raised an army of two Legiones,
>(likely of young boys and old men) and set off to raise the seige.
>He caught the Aequi by surprise, (with what they thought was the whole
Roman
>army before them, what passed for pickets then, probably weren't posted)
and
>routed them. After rescuing his colleague, he returned to Rome, turned
down
>the Senate's offer of a triumphus, disbanded his army, and returned to his
>farm, after being in power for 16 days. This is often used
>as great example of the Roman government's different offices of the
Republic
>working at their best. Valete!Q Fabius Maximus

Thank you Q Fabius, I love this bit of History.

Vale L Equitius


Subject:	Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:	FJGA@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:26:55 EST

Why bother to explain anything to Graecus? He will merely find another bizarre
conspiracy run by myself, one of the Consular candidates or Cassius, to scream
about in hopes that he'll get more votes.

Metellus


Subject:	Information on worship in Ancient times
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:21:52 -0500

Nocturnia wrote:

>I am looking for any information about Divus Augustus and the worship of
>him in Ancient times. <snip>
>If you know of any books or websites that would be of use I would be
>extremely grateful to have them.

I think Robert Ogilvie's "The Romans and their Gods" has a chapter on the
imperial cult - but can't check now because my books are in piles waiting
for shelves.

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister


Subject:	Pictures for Family album
From:	amethystcrystallight@--------)
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:42:15 -0600

Salve --

I am now accepting pictures (preferably in .jpg) of citizens and their
children for the Sodalis web page. Please email them privately either to
this --------ess or the M--------2Two@-------- --------ess.

Thank you very much.

Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


Subject:	Re: Hurrah!
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:08:52 PST

>
>From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
>
>Shucks! Just when I thoght we'd have some peace!
>
>Ericius
>
>[This has been a test of your senses of humor and your knowledge
>of your fellow citizens.]
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Not likely!! LOL ;)

Never get any peace and quiet here!

(Well I sure know me fellow citizens!)

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae

__________________________________________________

To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man’s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor’s by history?

Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________

You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods

Hàvamàl (The words of the God Odin)

__________________________________________________

Quote of all time!

Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.

(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)

Vergil

__________________________________________________________
And especially for my friend Venator;

"The ill-minded man who meanly thinks,
fleers at both foul and fair;
he does not know,
as know he ought,
that he is not free from flaws."
-The Sayings of the High One

___________________________________________________________
And for those who believe they have little to offer,

"Not great things needs give to a man:
bringeth thanks oft a little thing;
with half a loaf and a half-drained cup
I won me oft worthy friend."
Havamal


Subject:	Re: Information on worship in Ancient times
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:25:40 -0500

Salvete

There is not much about the worship of Agustus in there but this is a
Great Book! Only 130 pages and packed with information.
It is also available from Amazon.com for $12.50, ISBN 0-393-00543-7
This can and should be added to the Macellum page and Nova Roma will get
credit.

Vale L Equitius Cincinnatus

>I think Robert Ogilvie's "The Romans and their Gods" [in the Age of
Agustus]" has a chapter on the
>imperial cult - but can't check now because my books are in piles waiting
>for shelves.
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister