| Subject: |
Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs. |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:20:07 -0500 (EST) |
|
I have stayed out of the race for Tribune of the Plebs but since Graechus
has decided to take a break from campaigning to influence the Consul race,
I thought I would take a break and respond to a few of his insightful
comments.
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:
> Salve cives!
>
> Do never forget those who sacrificed their personal ambitions for the
> welfare of the Res Publica. Remember Flavia Claudia and Flavius
> Germanicus.
As do you, I regret that Claudia left the race. She helped make it a real
race with a conclusion that was not certain.
As for Germanicus, I'm not sure what his leaving and returning to Nova
Roma has to do with your race for Tribune but I suppose it makes a good
slogan for you.
Remember what happenned recently:
> All the arguments they presented are false!
> And they even tried to cover this issue!
I know you mean well, but such accusations serve no one when you get a bit
carried away in the spirit of the moment.
> The Senators may have access to the codes,
> which means that they can know who votes in who.
There is nothing like slander by implication. "Senators may have access to
the codes." You don't know for certain but you then continue on the
assumption that they do.
The only Senator that has complete voter codes is Cassius. Of the three
candidates for Consul, myself and Claudia had partial old 2 digit codes,
left over from a list that we got from Germanicus. It was not the full 4
digit codes that Cassius recently assigned. Neither Cincinnatus nor
Metellus has the citizens list and even mine is incomplete.
As for setting up the page that people do the actual voting on, no
candidate had anything to do with that, myself included.
No candidate is counting votes or knows who votes for whom. Not Metellus,
not Cincinnatus and not me.
> They are also
> candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of
> powers?
> Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of Dictatorship.
Oh please, it's getting a bit deep in here I think.
> Do it through your vote:
>
> Vote the following:
>
> Consuls:
> No votes!!!
You mean vote for us! Thank you Graechus!
> Scandal after scandal,
Scandal after scandal? This sounds like the Clinton White House. Where,
pray tell, are the scandals other than in your postings?
> Consul candidates have more than once menaced
> the sovereignty of the People and the Constitution,
You mean "have never menaced the sovereignty of the People and the
Constitution."
> showing
> pro-dictatorship tendencies, specially Senator Lucius Cincinnatus.
> By imposing their work as a team they demand grabing all the power,
> or no power at all. Give them the latter.
So, what you are saying is that you would like to have the consul
candidates get few votes, perhaps damaging their (our) auctoritas and
their (our) ability to get things in this next crucial year? I think that
this is more damaging to the future of Nova Roma than any imaginary
dictatorship or grab for power. You may quite possibly be elected to a
powerful and *responsible* position in Nova Roma. Start sounding like it
or is it just going to be your intention to use your veto on a personal
whim, because you dislike the candidates for consul, or have delusions
that we are "threats to the Republic?"
Just because Consuls are a team does not mean that they agree on
everything. The advantage of a team is that the candidates will try to
work together for the benefit of Nova Roma, rather than squabbling over
conflicting visions.
> Vote well to save the Res Publica! Rome needs you!
Or as you have put it: "Don't vote so as to damage Nova Roma!"
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:20:57 -0500 (EST) |
|
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
> Salve Senators Palladi and Cincinnati!
Salve Graechus!
> >So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.
> The voting I've SUGESTED I think is demanding to same the Res Publica from
> dictatorship and favoritism:
Your suggestion, if it has *any* impact, was made with the aim of damaging
Nova Roma.
> 1st - If the Consuls are ellected with few votes, they will be more careful
> next time they think of changing the electoral laws at their will.
What we did was preserve the Constitution intact for the coming year,
without any hasty votes to alter voting procedures, that had been proposed
by some people. The Senatus Consultum, while irregular, was legal and did
not alter the Constitution, which to me was of paramount importance.
The Supremacy Clause that been proposed will make the constitution supreme
and invioable, something I support. Once this clause is approved, any
similar senatus consultum would in the future be impossible without the
approval of one of the comitiae.
Speaking of the Comitiae, the first order of business for the coming
year will be to set up the comitiae as working institutions. If elected
Graechus, I hope you will *help* us in this process with constructive
criticism and aid.
> 2nd - To vote me for Tribune is to counter balance the power of the Consuls,
>as I promise, dear Senators, if ellected I'll keep you always under my
>eyes!!!
That's what the position is for Graechus. I for one will be excited to
have active and *responsible* Tribunes of the Plebs.
>If you were honest you would agree that you deserve this. I think
>that both Palladius and Cincinnatus are capable and competent... But
>don't forget that Julius Caesar and Augustus were also capable.
Why Greachus, are you trying to flatter us or insult us? Which of us is
Caesar and who is Augustus? I'm the younger of us! Can I be Augustus? :)
> 3rd - While I have sugested a vote, you have forced it by ploting against
> Flavia Claudia whom I was going to vote for Consul.
Plotting? I think not. I campaigned rather hard and many citizens heard
from me individually. I had no time to plot.
> Even if I am not ellected, I hope you learn something with this ellections.
>THE PEOPLE WANT A RES PUBLICA WHERE ALL CITIZENS COLLABORATE AS A TEAM.
> Nova Roma is the only team I know.
And do you intend to be a part of it or do you intend to become the rogue
Tribune that the ancients feared?
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:21:57 -0500 (EST) |
|
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Cheri Scotch wrote:
> From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
> > The SENATE does NOT have citizen data!
> >
> But your running mate does. He's a Censor, right? You
> and your running mate don't speak to each other? Maybe I should have
> been the one to threaten voter fraud and collusion instead of you.
Now Claudia, I have the same list that you did, though not as complete as
yours. That is why such a charge against you would have been ridiculous
because you could have made the same accusation against me.
> Actually,everyone should have Citizen Data in the form
> of a Citizen's Directory,so we can all keep in touch. Every "club' has a
> directory of members -- why shouldn't NR?
In hard copy or in a protected, citizens only spot on the web? I know
that when this idea was proposed before there were many objections for
privacy reasons. I suppose people could check off when they join
whether they would want to be listed.
> Running as a team merely improves the chances that a
> political faction will be elected to office, and thus have more control
> over the Senate and legislation.
Yes, that is an advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage, one hopes, is
that a team would be more likely to work together for the good of the
state, whereas 2 separate candidates might spend more time fighting among
themselves than working together. Of course, that can happen with a team
as well. In our case, I don't think the 3 of us were so far apart that
severe disagreement would have been an issue no matter who was elected.
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:50:04 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Salve Metelli!
>Why bother to explain anything to Graecus? He will merely find another
bizarre
>conspiracy run by myself, one of the Consular candidates or Cassius, to
scream
>about in hopes that he'll get more votes.
I would agree with you if I was not well fundamented on facts. I'm talking
about reality, you know? Have you read the mailing list recently? Maybe not.
Maybe you know the news through you fellow Senators Palladius and
Cincinnatus... But Nova Roma is alive outside of the Senate! You must know
it if you want to be Tribune! By the way... Who are you defending with this
statement? It is not the Res Publica for sure, not the Constitution and even
less the people!
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 10:10 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
>From: FJGA@--------
>
>Why bother to explain anything to Graecus? He will merely find another
bizarre
>conspiracy run by myself, one of the Consular candidates or Cassius, to
scream
>about in hopes that he'll get more votes.
>
>Metellus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs. |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:36:27 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Salve Palladi!
>As do you, I regret that Claudia left the race. She helped make it a real
>race with a conclusion that was not certain.
>
>As for Germanicus, I'm not sure what his leaving and returning to Nova
>Roma has to do with your race for Tribune but I suppose it makes a good
>slogan for you.
About Germanicus, I started to like him on the day he risked not becoming
again a Senator of Nova Roma for the sake of the Constitution. Indeed he
makes a good slogan for me, because I'm proud of him and cannot stop from
trying to deserve the respect of my fellow citizens by not betraying him as
many did throughout this campaign.
>I know you mean well, but such accusations serve no one when you get a bit
>carried away in the spirit of the moment.
Senator Palladius, this is not the White House. The people must know! Or do
you plan to create a political police too in order to defend the integrity
of the Government. I prefer you to defend that integrity with transparency
of acts.
>There is nothing like slander by implication. "Senators may have access to
>the codes." You don't know for certain but you then continue on the
>assumption that they do.
I said 'may' to give you a chance for you or Cincinnatus to reply. I was not
sure. Now that you have answered I believe your word. Nevertheless that does
not destroy my other arguments, strongly based on facts that you know more
than me. I'm talking about accusing Flavia Claudia.
>> They are also
>> candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of
>> powers?
>> Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of
Dictatorship.
>
>Oh please, it's getting a bit deep in here I think.
My desire is for you to be right. Anyway I'm sorry, but I've saw too many
things already. I cannot take risks and the neither can the people.
>So, what you are saying is that you would like to have the consul
>candidates get few votes, perhaps damaging their (our) auctoritas and
>their (our) ability to get things in this next crucial year? I think that
>this is more damaging to the future of Nova Roma than any imaginary
>dictatorship or grab for power.
Few votes give you Constitutional power but tells you to think about your
actions. It will simply tell you that your recent actions were wrong or at
least not enough transparent to the people.
>You may quite possibly be elected to a
>powerful and *responsible* position in Nova Roma. Start sounding like it
>or is it just going to be your intention to use your veto on a personal
>whim, because you dislike the candidates for consul, or have delusions
>that we are "threats to the Republic?"
I love Nova Roma and contrary to what Metellus says I'm not a lunatic. I
won't use my veto unless you commit a crime against the Constitution or the
people, not because I disagree with you. The government will be yours, and I
will let the people judge you through their words and votes rather than
through my personal point of view, which can be wrong like that of any human
being.
>Just because Consuls are a team does not mean that they agree on
>everything. The advantage of a team is that the candidates will try to
>work together for the benefit of Nova Roma, rather than squabbling over
>conflicting visions.
Don't make us laugh, Palladius. The citizens of Nova Roma are intelligent.
> >So Now who is the Dictator?? He will tell us how to vote.
> The voting I've SUGESTED I think is demanding to same the Res Publica from
> dictatorship and favoritism:
>Your suggestion, if it has *any* impact, was made with the aim of damaging
>Nova Roma.
You are accusing me of something I've not accused you. I hope that you
recognise my real aim of providing the citizens a Res Publica where they can
think and speak freely, where anyone may take the Cursus Honorum path
without having to make favours to magistrates and Senators.
I've also candidated myself for Plebeian Aedile and I'm already working on
it. So, try to get real facts to support your accusations before throwing
them. You are playing the demagogue.
>What we did was preserve the Constitution intact for the coming year,
>without any hasty votes to alter voting procedures, that had been proposed
>by some people. The Senatus Consultum, while irregular, was legal and did
>not alter the Constitution, which to me was of paramount importance.
>The Supremacy Clause that been proposed will make the constitution supreme
>and invioable, something I support. Once this clause is approved, any
>similar senatus consultum would in the future be impossible without the
>approval of one of the comitiae.
It was legal but not transparent. You should have thought about it, or were
you already so confident on your power and on your certain ellection for
Consul?
>Speaking of the Comitiae, the first order of business for the coming
>year will be to set up the comitiae as working institutions. If elected
>Graechus, I hope you will *help* us in this process with constructive
>criticism and aid.
Don't even doubt it. The Comitiae are of extreme importance to the people
and one of my main responsibilities.
> 2nd - To vote me for Tribune is to counter balance the power of the
Consuls,
>as I promise, dear Senators, if ellected I'll keep you always under my
>eyes!!!
>That's what the position is for Graechus. I for one will be excited to
>have active and *responsible* Tribunes of the Plebs.
I will keep you under my eyes WITH RESPONSIBILITY. That's one of the
responsibilities consecrated in the Constitution which by now you may have
forgotten.
> 3rd - While I have sugested a vote, you have forced it by ploting against
> Flavia Claudia whom I was going to vote for Consul.
>Plotting? I think not. I campaigned rather hard and many citizens heard
>from me individually. I had no time to plot.
What about Cincinnatus? Read again my email.
> Even if I am not ellected, I hope you learn something with this
ellections.
>THE PEOPLE WANT A RES PUBLICA WHERE ALL CITIZENS COLLABORATE AS A TEAM.
> Nova Roma is the only team I know.
>And do you intend to be a part of it or do you intend to become the rogue
>Tribune that the ancients feared?
I want to work as the member of a team, but not as the member of a mafia.
> But your running mate does. He's a Censor, right? You
> and your running mate don't speak to each other? Maybe I should have
> been the one to threaten voter fraud and collusion instead of you.
>Now Claudia, I have the same list that you did, though not as complete as
>yours. That is why such a charge against you would have been ridiculous
>because you could have made the same accusation against me.
Fortunately you recognise that one of your arguments was false.
> Running as a team merely improves the chances that a
> political faction will be elected to office, and thus have more control
> over the Senate and legislation.
>Yes, that is an advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage, one hopes, is
>that a team would be more likely to work together for the good of the
>state, whereas 2 separate candidates might spend more time fighting among
>themselves than working together. Of course, that can happen with a team
>as well. In our case, I don't think the 3 of us were so far apart that
>severe disagreement would have been an issue no matter who was elected.
Again, the people are intelligent, don't try to be a cheater. By the way, do
you think that this also should apply to relationships across magistracies?
Why not teams of 2 Consuls and 2 Tribunes of the Plebs? Well, maybe this is
already working like this and I don't know... Neither does the people...
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 7:20 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the
office of Tribune of the Plebs.
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>
>I have stayed out of the race for Tribune of the Plebs but since Graechus
>has decided to take a break from campaigning to influence the Consul race,
>I thought I would take a break and respond to a few of his insightful
>comments.
>
>
>On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
>> Salve cives!
>>
>> Do never forget those who sacrificed their personal ambitions for the
>> welfare of the Res Publica. Remember Flavia Claudia and Flavius
>> Germanicus.
>
>As do you, I regret that Claudia left the race. She helped make it a real
>race with a conclusion that was not certain.
>
>As for Germanicus, I'm not sure what his leaving and returning to Nova
>Roma has to do with your race for Tribune but I suppose it makes a good
>slogan for you.
>
>Remember what happenned recently:
>
>> All the arguments they presented are false!
>> And they even tried to cover this issue!
>
>I know you mean well, but such accusations serve no one when you get a bit
>carried away in the spirit of the moment.
>
>
>> The Senators may have access to the codes,
>> which means that they can know who votes in who.
>
>There is nothing like slander by implication. "Senators may have access to
>the codes." You don't know for certain but you then continue on the
>assumption that they do.
>
>The only Senator that has complete voter codes is Cassius. Of the three
>candidates for Consul, myself and Claudia had partial old 2 digit codes,
>left over from a list that we got from Germanicus. It was not the full 4
>digit codes that Cassius recently assigned. Neither Cincinnatus nor
>Metellus has the citizens list and even mine is incomplete.
>
>As for setting up the page that people do the actual voting on, no
>candidate had anything to do with that, myself included.
>
>No candidate is counting votes or knows who votes for whom. Not Metellus,
>not Cincinnatus and not me.
>
>> They are also
>> candidates (except Cassius). Where is the concept of separation of
>> powers?
>> Rome needs your help to save the Republic from the danger of
Dictatorship.
>
>Oh please, it's getting a bit deep in here I think.
>
>
>> Do it through your vote:
>>
>> Vote the following:
>>
>> Consuls:
>> No votes!!!
>
>You mean vote for us! Thank you Graechus!
>
>
>> Scandal after scandal,
>
>Scandal after scandal? This sounds like the Clinton White House. Where,
>pray tell, are the scandals other than in your postings?
>
>> Consul candidates have more than once menaced
>> the sovereignty of the People and the Constitution,
>
>You mean "have never menaced the sovereignty of the People and the
>Constitution."
>
>> showing
>> pro-dictatorship tendencies, specially Senator Lucius Cincinnatus.
>> By imposing their work as a team they demand grabing all the power,
>> or no power at all. Give them the latter.
>
>So, what you are saying is that you would like to have the consul
>candidates get few votes, perhaps damaging their (our) auctoritas and
>their (our) ability to get things in this next crucial year? I think that
>this is more damaging to the future of Nova Roma than any imaginary
>dictatorship or grab for power. You may quite possibly be elected to a
>powerful and *responsible* position in Nova Roma. Start sounding like it
>or is it just going to be your intention to use your veto on a personal
>whim, because you dislike the candidates for consul, or have delusions
>that we are "threats to the Republic?"
>
>Just because Consuls are a team does not mean that they agree on
>everything. The advantage of a team is that the candidates will try to
>work together for the benefit of Nova Roma, rather than squabbling over
>conflicting visions.
>
>
>> Vote well to save the Res Publica! Rome needs you!
>
>
>Or as you have put it: "Don't vote so as to damage Nova Roma!"
>
>
>Palladius
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
A carefully thought-out decision (long, but important) |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:51:57 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete, quirites!
Those citizens who are subscribed to this mailing list will all
be aware of the political campaigning which has been going on in the
run-up to the Nova Roman elections, and many of us have expressed
disappointment in the level of personal enmity which has been apparent
between some candidates. For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
seen has meant that I have today finally decided to implement a
decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
Eagle. This is not a lightly-taken, throwaway decision, intended to
make some kind of 'point'. It is also not made in reaction to any one
particular incident, but to a general climate which I have come to
dislike. I have simply come to the realisation that Nova Roman
politics is not for me, and indeed been put off Nova Roma in general
to such an extent that I no longer wish to play such an active role in
our community.
Had I the time to devote to Nova Roma, I might prefer to stay
within the political field, trying to give a positive input into our
discussions, and to develop positive activities within my province.
However, I have come to feel that my time and energies would probably
be used more profitably on my PhD, which as many of you will know, I
am working for at Oxford University, England. I have simply found that
every time I come to open my e-mail account, I feel less and less
enthralled at the prospect of the often rather petty mails I will have
to read, and would now prefer to devote the time I currently spend in
front of a computer to research and study, from which I get a greater
satisfaction.
This is not to say that I intend to disappear altogether. Despite
the actions of some individuals, I still feel that Nova Roma is
potentially a wonderful idea, and I have many valued friends among her
citizens. I will therefore be retaining my citizenship, and continuing
to act as the materfamilias of the Gens Claudia Lucentia. I may remain
subscribed to this mailing list, simply deleting the political mails
which, as a politician, I currently have to read, and concentrating on
the more positive aspects of Nova Roma, such as the various collegia
which are now springing up. I do wish to make a contribution as a
private citizen, but feel that this would be a more flexible role for
me to play, allowing me to organise further activities with Nova
Romans in Britannia, research topics of interest to the state, etc.,
but freeing me from the world of politics, which I have now realised
is not for me. You must think of me as a Sallust figure, who has
retired from public life to study history in her suburban villa,
removed from, but still mildly interested in, the goings-on in the
nearby capital.
I realise that this move will come as a great shock to many,
especially since I have given no previous indication of how I felt on
this matter. I had been telling myself for a long time that the best
way to make Nova Roman politics into a more pleasant experience would
be to stay within the political arena, working for the good of the
state. But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
to me. I also realise that I have made this announcement at a very
busy time for Nova Roma, and must apologise for this. I realised that
I had to make this move now, rather than later, since I knew that I
would not want to act as Praetor Urbanus if I had been elected, and
felt that it was better to withdraw my candidacy now, than to be
elected and then resign the post. Should anyone already have voted for
me, as I know some people have already cast their votes, I can only
apologise even more deeply for the waste of your vote. I know that by
withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office. Again,
apologies, but I do feel that both my erstwhile fellow-candidates are
extremely capable of filling the position, and wish them both luck in
the office.
With regards to my positions of Praetor Britanniae and European
distributor of the Eagle, these will both now need to be filled by new
applicants, and I realise that this, too, is an unnecessary headache
for the Censors at this time. With this in mind, I must state that I
am prepared to be patient about passing on these offices. Whilst I do
want to lay them down as soon as possible, I will continue to carry
out their duties (I feel it is especially important that subscribers
to the Eagle should not miss out on receiving the magazine they have
paid for because of my resignation), until new officials can be found.
I will myself take responsibility for as much of the process necessary
to find new officials as possible, mailing all the citizens of
Britannia to explain that I have resigned, and that the position of
Praetor will need to be filled by one of them. Once someone has come
forward, I have explained what the office involves properly to them,
and they have agreed that they would like to do it, I can then point
them in the direction of the Censors to organise the change-over.
As I have said, I am not disappearing, and I will certainly
remain subscribed to this mailing list for the next couple of weeks,
while my resignation is sorted out. After that, I will always be
contactable at this address, although I may check my e-mail less often
than I used to, and may also unsubscribe from the mailing list. Once
again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be disappointed
or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
Multas felicitates,
Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
FJGA@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:13:27 EST |
|
Thank you Graecus, your latest rant proves my point completely. I rest my
case.
Metellus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:10:46 -0000 |
|
Salve Mettelle!
>Thank you Graecus, your latest rant proves my point completely. I rest my
>case.
Yes, the only one case in your campaign. =)
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: FJGA@-------- FJGA@--------
To: amg <amg>; <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as
it is
>Thank you Graecus, your latest rant proves my point completely. I rest my
>case.
>
>Metellus
>
|
| Subject: |
A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:08:43 -0500 |
|
Salvete, Quirites et Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
> Once again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be
disappointed
>or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
>Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
> Multas felicitates,
>
This is indeed sad news, but you must do what needs to be done.
I wish you the best of Fortuna in you pursuits and the time to enjoy them.
Vale Aprica, but not goodbye! L Equitius
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision (long, but important) |
| From: |
Robert Woolwine alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 07:26:33 -0800 |
|
Ave Claudia Aprica,
I am truly disappointed that you have resigned yourself from the race of
Praetor Urbanis. After all of our discussions I was looking forward to
working with you. Even up to last week...I had no idea that you were even
contemplating this decision. NR will suffer with you not being involved.
You had very good ideas and I will strive to implment them! I do hope that
your studies will be successful. And, maybe in the future you will feel
more comfortable to run again. I would support in any capacity. I am glad
that you will still remain active at NR in any capacity. And, I hope I can
still consult you in regards to any issue. I have valued your opinions
since we began our debates on policy! The best of luck to you! Vale!
Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Candidate for Praetor Urbanis
Claudia Aprica wrote:
> From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>
> Salvete, quirites!
> Those citizens who are subscribed to this mailing list will all
> be aware of the political campaigning which has been going on in the
> run-up to the Nova Roman elections, and many of us have expressed
> disappointment in the level of personal enmity which has been apparent
> between some candidates. For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
> seen has meant that I have today finally decided to implement a
> decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
> disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
> wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
> to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
> Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
> Eagle. This is not a lightly-taken, throwaway decision, intended to
> make some kind of 'point'. It is also not made in reaction to any one
> particular incident, but to a general climate which I have come to
> dislike. I have simply come to the realisation that Nova Roman
> politics is not for me, and indeed been put off Nova Roma in general
> to such an extent that I no longer wish to play such an active role in
> our community.
> Had I the time to devote to Nova Roma, I might prefer to stay
> within the political field, trying to give a positive input into our
> discussions, and to develop positive activities within my province.
> However, I have come to feel that my time and energies would probably
> be used more profitably on my PhD, which as many of you will know, I
> am working for at Oxford University, England. I have simply found that
> every time I come to open my e-mail account, I feel less and less
> enthralled at the prospect of the often rather petty mails I will have
> to read, and would now prefer to devote the time I currently spend in
> front of a computer to research and study, from which I get a greater
> satisfaction.
> This is not to say that I intend to disappear altogether. Despite
> the actions of some individuals, I still feel that Nova Roma is
> potentially a wonderful idea, and I have many valued friends among her
> citizens. I will therefore be retaining my citizenship, and continuing
> to act as the materfamilias of the Gens Claudia Lucentia. I may remain
> subscribed to this mailing list, simply deleting the political mails
> which, as a politician, I currently have to read, and concentrating on
> the more positive aspects of Nova Roma, such as the various collegia
> which are now springing up. I do wish to make a contribution as a
> private citizen, but feel that this would be a more flexible role for
> me to play, allowing me to organise further activities with Nova
> Romans in Britannia, research topics of interest to the state, etc.,
> but freeing me from the world of politics, which I have now realised
> is not for me. You must think of me as a Sallust figure, who has
> retired from public life to study history in her suburban villa,
> removed from, but still mildly interested in, the goings-on in the
> nearby capital.
> I realise that this move will come as a great shock to many,
> especially since I have given no previous indication of how I felt on
> this matter. I had been telling myself for a long time that the best
> way to make Nova Roman politics into a more pleasant experience would
> be to stay within the political arena, working for the good of the
> state. But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
> energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
> to me. I also realise that I have made this announcement at a very
> busy time for Nova Roma, and must apologise for this. I realised that
> I had to make this move now, rather than later, since I knew that I
> would not want to act as Praetor Urbanus if I had been elected, and
> felt that it was better to withdraw my candidacy now, than to be
> elected and then resign the post. Should anyone already have voted for
> me, as I know some people have already cast their votes, I can only
> apologise even more deeply for the waste of your vote. I know that by
> withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
> for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
> effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office. Again,
> apologies, but I do feel that both my erstwhile fellow-candidates are
> extremely capable of filling the position, and wish them both luck in
> the office.
> With regards to my positions of Praetor Britanniae and European
> distributor of the Eagle, these will both now need to be filled by new
> applicants, and I realise that this, too, is an unnecessary headache
> for the Censors at this time. With this in mind, I must state that I
> am prepared to be patient about passing on these offices. Whilst I do
> want to lay them down as soon as possible, I will continue to carry
> out their duties (I feel it is especially important that subscribers
> to the Eagle should not miss out on receiving the magazine they have
> paid for because of my resignation), until new officials can be found.
> I will myself take responsibility for as much of the process necessary
> to find new officials as possible, mailing all the citizens of
> Britannia to explain that I have resigned, and that the position of
> Praetor will need to be filled by one of them. Once someone has come
> forward, I have explained what the office involves properly to them,
> and they have agreed that they would like to do it, I can then point
> them in the direction of the Censors to organise the change-over.
> As I have said, I am not disappearing, and I will certainly
> remain subscribed to this mailing list for the next couple of weeks,
> while my resignation is sorted out. After that, I will always be
> contactable at this address, although I may check my e-mail less often
> than I used to, and may also unsubscribe from the mailing list. Once
> again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be disappointed
> or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
> Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
> Multas felicitates,
> Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
>
> ==
> **********************************************************************
> Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
> **********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
To would-be magistrates (long and impolite) was A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:57:13 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes
>be aware of the political campaigning which has been going on in the
>run-up to the Nova Roman elections, and many of us have expressed
>disappointment in the level of personal enmity which has been apparent
>between some candidates. For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
Well, I would expect any election campaign to become at least a bit
adversarial. In the case of Nova Roma's first election season, it has been
going a bit far in some places, but not in the former race for Praetor
Urbanus. Scaevola and Sulla have been debating their positions on the
agenda for the office reasonably and amicably. Am I the only civis who is
left wondering what drove Aprica out of the race?
>decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
'toying with for weeks'? But only a few weeks ago you announced your
candidacy; ergo you started having second thoughts within a week or so of
declaring yourself in.
>disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
>wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
>to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
>Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
>Eagle. This is not a lightly-taken, throwaway decision, intended to
>make some kind of 'point'. It is also not made in reaction to any one
>particular incident, but to a general climate which I have come to
>dislike. I have simply come to the realisation that Nova Roman
>politics is not for me, and indeed been put off Nova Roma in general
>to such an extent that I no longer wish to play such an active role in
>our community.
>However, I have come to feel that my time and energies would probably
>be used more profitably on my PhD, which as many of you will know, I
>am working for at Oxford University, England. I have simply found that
Good for you and good luck.
>every time I come to open my e-mail account, I feel less and less
>enthralled at the prospect of the often rather petty mails I will have
>to read, and would now prefer to devote the time I currently spend in
I dont mind the volume so much...one can always delete them. I do sometimes
dread that one of the spiteful messages will take aim at something I said;
actually, that has happened once, even though I'm not a magistrate,
candidate or anything else! O Di Immortales, bless this brave world of Nova
Roma, that has spite and slander to spare even for a nobody like me!
. I may remain
>subscribed to this mailing list, simply deleting the political mails
>which, as a politician, I currently have to read, and concentrating on
But surely every politician has heard of plausible deniability, as in "I do
not recall that exchange, it might have been stored on my drive that crashed
at such and such time."
> I realise that this move will come as a great shock to many,
You betcha!
>especially since I have given no previous indication of how I felt on
>this matter. I had been telling myself for a long time that the best
>way to make Nova Roman politics into a more pleasant experience would
>be to stay within the political arena, working for the good of the
>state.
Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
>energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
>to me.
I do not mean this as a personal attack, but I really must at this point
express deep disappointment. I really do wish you well in your endeavors
and admire your pursuit of excellence, but I feel that a disservice has been
done to me and every other civis of Nova Roma.
I also realise that I have made this announcement at a very
>busy time for Nova Roma, and must apologise for this. I realised that
>I had to make this move now, rather than later, since I knew that I
>would not want to act as Praetor Urbanus if I had been elected, and
>felt that it was better to withdraw my candidacy now, than to be
>elected and then resign the post. Should anyone already have voted for
>me, as I know some people have already cast their votes, I can only
>apologise even more deeply for the waste of your vote. I know that by
>withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
>for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
>effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office.
And that, plus this being the very first election in Nova Roma, makes this a
painful blow. Do you not realize, Aprica, that your race was for some of us
the only reason to bother voting at all? What is the purpose now of any
patrician picking up a ballot? There is no race for Consul; noone ran for
Curule Aedile; there are three separate quaestorships, and thus again no
choice for patrician, or plebeian, voters there; we cannot vote for Tribune
or Plebeian Aedile. The Praetor race was the last game in town, so to
speak, and now that too is history.
Please, next year, let us all think about the magistracies and the elections
a little more seriously and long. If one declares candidacy and then backs
out at the last minute, others who might have run fairly and served well
might have can in the worst case be thus swayed not to run; in the best
case scenario the legitimacy of the election takes a hit. In later years,
if we make it, recovery from such an incidence would be a sure thing; that
is not the case now!
>than I used to, and may also unsubscribe from the mailing list. Once
>again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be disappointed
>or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
>Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
It is your decision and I'll live with it along with everyone else.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:16:10 EST |
|
Salvete,
While Claudia's announcement is very sad, I'm afraid that this sort of thing
doesn't come as a surprise. Truly, the surprising thing is that Nova Roma has
not seen a few dozen public resignations just like this one.
I myself have been just as upset by the recent interpersonal situations as
Quinta Claudia has. The only difference is that I believe that both Nova Roma
AND it's Citizens will continue to grow and mature as time goes on, and so see
no reason to give up. The goal of preserving and rebuilding the best aspects
of Classical Civilization is just too important to abandon when things start
getting difficult.
It would be wonderful to be able to blame the Elections for all the current
list and chatroom difficulties, but that isn't the case. The real problem is
that some of us have been acting like complete Barbarians rather than
Civilized adults.
Hopefully this latest loss will give each of us a chance to examine not just
Nova Roma, but also ourselves. All these problems could have been avoided by
simple respect and civility.
A few things to consider...
1. Have you responded in anger to anyone in the list or chatroom in the last
two months? Just because someone provokes you doesn't mean you have to answer
in kind.
2. Have you insulted anyone personally? Called them names?
3. Have you put effort into continuing arguments rather than stopping them?
4. If angry at someone personally, have you taken the problems to personal
email, or fought it out in the list and the live chat?
5. Have you been making posts while upset, without waiting at least 24 hours
to cool off?
6. Have you accused other Citizens of things which would *demand* that they
publically defend themselves?
Certainly the Elections have made situations more difficult, but to date I
can't recall seeing anything that couldn't have been resolved by a few kind
words and a bit of adult restraint.
So. We've lost one of our most skilled and knowledgable Praetors, and the
Province of Brittania is now without Nova Roman representation. My hope is
that we can learn from this, and not continue to make the same mistakes.
In any case, I thank Quinta Claudia Apricia for her efforts and friendship,
and do wish her well. Hopefully no one will think ill of either her or her
decision.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
In a message dated 98-12-03 06:57:37 EST, Quinta Claudia Apricia writes:
<< Salvete, quirites!
Those citizens who are subscribed to this mailing list will all
be aware of the political campaigning which has been going on in the
run-up to the Nova Roman elections, and many of us have expressed
disappointment in the level of personal enmity which has been apparent
between some candidates. For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
seen has meant that I have today finally decided to implement a
decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
Eagle. This is not a lightly-taken, throwaway decision, intended to
make some kind of 'point'. It is also not made in reaction to any one
particular incident, but to a general climate which I have come to
dislike. I have simply come to the realisation that Nova Roman
politics is not for me, and indeed been put off Nova Roma in general
to such an extent that I no longer wish to play such an active role in
our community.
Had I the time to devote to Nova Roma, I might prefer to stay
within the political field, trying to give a positive input into our
discussions, and to develop positive activities within my province.
However, I have come to feel that my time and energies would probably
be used more profitably on my PhD, which as many of you will know, I
am working for at Oxford University, England. I have simply found that
every time I come to open my e-mail account, I feel less and less
enthralled at the prospect of the often rather petty mails I will have
to read, and would now prefer to devote the time I currently spend in
front of a computer to research and study, from which I get a greater
satisfaction.
This is not to say that I intend to disappear altogether. Despite
the actions of some individuals, I still feel that Nova Roma is
potentially a wonderful idea, and I have many valued friends among her
citizens. I will therefore be retaining my citizenship, and continuing
to act as the materfamilias of the Gens Claudia Lucentia. I may remain
subscribed to this mailing list, simply deleting the political mails
which, as a politician, I currently have to read, and concentrating on
the more positive aspects of Nova Roma, such as the various collegia
which are now springing up. I do wish to make a contribution as a
private citizen, but feel that this would be a more flexible role for
me to play, allowing me to organise further activities with Nova
Romans in Britannia, research topics of interest to the state, etc.,
but freeing me from the world of politics, which I have now realised
is not for me. You must think of me as a Sallust figure, who has
retired from public life to study history in her suburban villa,
removed from, but still mildly interested in, the goings-on in the
nearby capital.
I realise that this move will come as a great shock to many,
especially since I have given no previous indication of how I felt on
this matter. I had been telling myself for a long time that the best
way to make Nova Roman politics into a more pleasant experience would
be to stay within the political arena, working for the good of the
state. But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
to me. I also realise that I have made this announcement at a very
busy time for Nova Roma, and must apologise for this. I realised that
I had to make this move now, rather than later, since I knew that I
would not want to act as Praetor Urbanus if I had been elected, and
felt that it was better to withdraw my candidacy now, than to be
elected and then resign the post. Should anyone already have voted for
me, as I know some people have already cast their votes, I can only
apologise even more deeply for the waste of your vote. I know that by
withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office. Again,
apologies, but I do feel that both my erstwhile fellow-candidates are
extremely capable of filling the position, and wish them both luck in
the office.
With regards to my positions of Praetor Britanniae and European
distributor of the Eagle, these will both now need to be filled by new
applicants, and I realise that this, too, is an unnecessary headache
for the Censors at this time. With this in mind, I must state that I
am prepared to be patient about passing on these offices. Whilst I do
want to lay them down as soon as possible, I will continue to carry
out their duties (I feel it is especially important that subscribers
to the Eagle should not miss out on receiving the magazine they have
paid for because of my resignation), until new officials can be found.
I will myself take responsibility for as much of the process necessary
to find new officials as possible, mailing all the citizens of
Britannia to explain that I have resigned, and that the position of
Praetor will need to be filled by one of them. Once someone has come
forward, I have explained what the office involves properly to them,
and they have agreed that they would like to do it, I can then point
them in the direction of the Censors to organise the change-over.
As I have said, I am not disappearing, and I will certainly
remain subscribed to this mailing list for the next couple of weeks,
while my resignation is sorted out. After that, I will always be
contactable at this address, although I may check my e-mail less often
than I used to, and may also unsubscribe from the mailing list. Once
again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be disappointed
or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
Multas felicitates,
Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
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From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
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Subject: [novaroma] A carefully thought-out decision (long, but important)
>>
|
| Subject: |
Latin translaiton and Nova pagina (web) Provinciae Italiae |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:26:08 -0500 |
|
Salvete Prime Fabi et alii
>Fro--------Fabio Incutti" incutti@--------
>
>I'd like to welcome all of you fellow citizens (and anyone else interested)
>to visit the new and quite complete home page of Provincia Italiae!
>
>The url is: <a href="http://members.it.tripod.de/Primus_Fabius/index.html" target="_top" >http://members.it.tripod.de/Primus_Fabius/index.html</a>
>
>As you may notice, not all of the links are currently active (but they will
I tried it and could not get through using MS Internet Explorer 4.0. Has
anyone seen it yet?
>be soon). I've also made an attempt to create a bi-lingual page, with the
>first three articles of the Constitution in Italian (the others will come).
>I'm impatient to add the Latin version asap.
(gulp)..Uh-oh..I'm not ready! Please be patient Prime Fabi. I have begun
and Scaevola has offered to do the editing, but I have not yet been able to
send him my work, which so far consists of the Preamble. Please realize
that Latin is not my native language, and so I cannot work nearly so fast as
you have on the Italian version. In fact, I am quite certain that I shall
finish it in not less than 4 months; subsequently I'll send the translation
to the Senate for their approval; it's entirely possible that the Senate
will kick it back to me or to a third party if they are not satisfied for
whatever reason (although with Scaevola's years of Latin study, I think that
I shall be spared this event). Anyway, I have to warn you that it may be
some months before the Latin is available.
>
>Moreover, the home page of Collegium Advocatorum is on its way. Anyone
>interested in giving an hand (strongly accepted) will be welcome. Also, I'd
How are things going in the Collegium Advocatorum offline?
>like some suggestions about the organizing of the Museum of Rome. The idea
>is to make a number of links to some thematic pages (ex: daily life, law,
>war, architecture, ships, etc.), containing materials and links to other
>sites. I'd appreciate help on this topic too.
The Roman Legions page about which Venator informed us recently
(<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/</a>) would seem worthy of
inclusion.
>
>Valete.
>
>Primus Fabius C.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
The end to bickering |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:54:18 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salvete Cives!
Cassius is right, I am surprised that we have not lost more people here in
Nova Roma from all the fighting, the arguments and the tones that have
been taken on occasion by some people. I am guilty of this too. If my
recent discussions with Greachus (I will discontinue them, or take
them private, for harming Nova Roma is the farthest thing from my
mind) have helped drive Aprica out of the race for Praetor Urbanus, then I
am truly sorry, for she was one of our "rising stars." I hope that she
will reconsider giving up her positions. Leaving is not the answer but
staying to work with us is.
I will take Cassius' list to heart, especially as Consul. The future of
Nova Roma is at stake and the loss of one talented as Aprica does not help
that future.
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Germanicus |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:56:05 -0500 (EST) |
|
On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:
> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Salve Graechus!
> >As for Germanicus, I'm not sure what his leaving and returning to Nova
> >Roma has to do with your race for Tribune but I suppose it makes a good
> >slogan for you.
> About Germanicus, I started to like him on the day he risked not becoming
> again a Senator of Nova Roma for the sake of the Constitution. Indeed he
> makes a good slogan for me, because I'm proud of him and cannot stop from
> trying to deserve the respect of my fellow citizens by not betraying him as
> many did throughout this campaign.
Germanicus risked nothing in the debate over the Constitution. His
speaking out neither hurt him nor helped him. It was a non-issue. The
consensus among the senate and among many though not all citizens was that
we should wait a few months before readmitting him to the Senate. This
was decided before the Constitutional issue came up. So we are waiting. He
is a consular and a Founder of Nova Roma. While I think he was wrong on
the issue you are referring to, his opinions on that issue did not hurt
his chances of readmission to the Senate in a few months, if he will still
be willing to serve amomg us. I hope he will be.
Vale,
Palladius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: the voting page |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:24:50 -0600 |
|
On Thu, 3 Dec 98 06:41:10 -0000 -------- p--------@-------- writes:
>As a candidate, I will not participate in the vote-counting, which
>will
>be yet another arduous task for Cassius.
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
I can't resist....sorry you 2...I'm feelng a bit silly!!!
Cassia: :::whip crack::: Get to work you underworked mule!!!!! :::whip
crack:::
Cassius: I's gettin to it Miz Cassia!! I's gettin to it!!!!!
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at <a href="http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html" target="_top" >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html</a>
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Latin translaiton and Nova pagina (web) Provinciae Italiae |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:25:14 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-03 11:49:15 EST, you write:
<< The Roman Legions page about which Venator informed us recently
(<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/</a>) would seem worthy of
inclusion. >>
Actually, no. There is many parts that are inaccurate, and I wouldn't want
further misinformation spread about the Army.
I've contacted the page maintainer, explained his errors and has given him
citations to look up. He was advised by SCA people in Roman combat, which is
a little more "free-wheeling" then the disciplined Romans would allow.
He is looking into it. But at this time no changes have been made.
Vale!
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Latin translaiton and Nova pagina (web) Provinciae Italiae |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:31:55 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-03 11:49:15 EST, you write:
<< <a href="http://members.it.tripod.de/Primus_Fabius/index.html" target="_top" >http://members.it.tripod.de/Primus_Fabius/index.html</a> > >>
Salve
Well done, Primus. This will be a wonderful addition to NR on line "Ring"
Vale
Q Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:46:49 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
This decision of Claudia Aprica makes me very sad too. I have voted on her
this afternoon...
Although I understand that things have become difficult sometimes, I must
say that I have never become personal enemy of anyone, and I've tried to
keep my attacks political and not personal.
Maybe you can blame me for accusing people of political acts, but that's
all. I don't think of anyone in Nova Roma as a bed person, not even a bad
citizen. I only blame some persons of not having been politically correct
sometimes. And talking about responsibility, it is not a question of words,
it is also a question of acts. And those who are magistrates, senators or
candidates have oftenly to answer for their acts.
We are going to have ellections... The people can decide who is more honest
and responsible. The people has the right to decide, and if they don't like
some candidate (e.g. me) they won't ellect him for sure.
Of course there is demagogy... Mostly on the opposite side =), it is
normal... But our citizens are intelligent and will surely make the right
choice. After the ellections we are all going to work together (that's what
I expect) to improve Nova Roma, each magistrate doing his job with
responsibility.
For the Gods' sake, this is a real nation! And as a real nation, politics
must be treated seriously.
I won't resign my candidacy for Tribune. I'll let the people decide, and I
hope that decision to be difficult, so as to make the people seriously think
about the arguments of every candidates.
I repeat: I am not personal enemy of anyone here, and I know that some of
the people I attack and attack me are not my personal enemies. I'm not in
any way bothered with what people have being telling publicly about me. And
I've never insulted anyone personally... If any of my words make you feel
personally affected, please show it to me publicly.
Claudia, I desire the Gods to help you... And hope that your resignation was
not my fault. If it was, I apologize to you and to the people of Nova Roma.
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
>In a message dated 98-12-03 06:57:37 EST, Quinta Claudia Apricia writes:
>
><< Salvete, quirites!
> Those citizens who are subscribed to this mailing list will all
> be aware of the political campaigning which has been going on in the
> run-up to the Nova Roman elections, and many of us have expressed
> disappointment in the level of personal enmity which has been apparent
> between some candidates. For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
> seen has meant that I have today finally decided to implement a
> decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
> disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
> wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
> to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
> Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
> Eagle. This is not a lightly-taken, throwaway decision, intended to
> make some kind of 'point'. It is also not made in reaction to any one
> particular incident, but to a general climate which I have come to
> dislike. I have simply come to the realisation that Nova Roman
> politics is not for me, and indeed been put off Nova Roma in general
> to such an extent that I no longer wish to play such an active role in
> our community.
> Had I the time to devote to Nova Roma, I might prefer to stay
> within the political field, trying to give a positive input into our
> discussions, and to develop positive activities within my province.
> However, I have come to feel that my time and energies would probably
> be used more profitably on my PhD, which as many of you will know, I
> am working for at Oxford University, England. I have simply found that
> every time I come to open my e-mail account, I feel less and less
> enthralled at the prospect of the often rather petty mails I will have
> to read, and would now prefer to devote the time I currently spend in
> front of a computer to research and study, from which I get a greater
> satisfaction.
> This is not to say that I intend to disappear altogether. Despite
> the actions of some individuals, I still feel that Nova Roma is
> potentially a wonderful idea, and I have many valued friends among her
> citizens. I will therefore be retaining my citizenship, and continuing
> to act as the materfamilias of the Gens Claudia Lucentia. I may remain
> subscribed to this mailing list, simply deleting the political mails
> which, as a politician, I currently have to read, and concentrating on
> the more positive aspects of Nova Roma, such as the various collegia
> which are now springing up. I do wish to make a contribution as a
> private citizen, but feel that this would be a more flexible role for
> me to play, allowing me to organise further activities with Nova
> Romans in Britannia, research topics of interest to the state, etc.,
> but freeing me from the world of politics, which I have now realised
> is not for me. You must think of me as a Sallust figure, who has
> retired from public life to study history in her suburban villa,
> removed from, but still mildly interested in, the goings-on in the
> nearby capital.
> I realise that this move will come as a great shock to many,
> especially since I have given no previous indication of how I felt on
> this matter. I had been telling myself for a long time that the best
> way to make Nova Roman politics into a more pleasant experience would
> be to stay within the political arena, working for the good of the
> state. But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
> energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
> to me. I also realise that I have made this announcement at a very
> busy time for Nova Roma, and must apologise for this. I realised that
> I had to make this move now, rather than later, since I knew that I
> would not want to act as Praetor Urbanus if I had been elected, and
> felt that it was better to withdraw my candidacy now, than to be
> elected and then resign the post. Should anyone already have voted for
> me, as I know some people have already cast their votes, I can only
> apologise even more deeply for the waste of your vote. I know that by
> withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
> for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
> effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office. Again,
> apologies, but I do feel that both my erstwhile fellow-candidates are
> extremely capable of filling the position, and wish them both luck in
> the office.
> With regards to my positions of Praetor Britanniae and European
> distributor of the Eagle, these will both now need to be filled by new
> applicants, and I realise that this, too, is an unnecessary headache
> for the Censors at this time. With this in mind, I must state that I
> am prepared to be patient about passing on these offices. Whilst I do
> want to lay them down as soon as possible, I will continue to carry
> out their duties (I feel it is especially important that subscribers
> to the Eagle should not miss out on receiving the magazine they have
> paid for because of my resignation), until new officials can be found.
> I will myself take responsibility for as much of the process necessary
> to find new officials as possible, mailing all the citizens of
> Britannia to explain that I have resigned, and that the position of
> Praetor will need to be filled by one of them. Once someone has come
> forward, I have explained what the office involves properly to them,
> and they have agreed that they would like to do it, I can then point
> them in the direction of the Censors to organise the change-over.
> As I have said, I am not disappearing, and I will certainly
> remain subscribed to this mailing list for the next couple of weeks,
> while my resignation is sorted out. After that, I will always be
> contactable at this address, although I may check my e-mail less often
> than I used to, and may also unsubscribe from the mailing list. Once
> again, I offer my fullest apologies to those who will be disappointed
> or feel let down by my resignation, but I hope that the citizens of
> Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my decision.
> Multas felicitates,
> Q. Claudia Lucentia Aprica.
>
> ==
> **********************************************************************
> Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:51:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; contact
<a href="mailto:novaroma-owner@--------" >novaroma-owner@--------</a>
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> Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Subject: [novaroma] A carefully thought-out decision (long, but important)
>
> >>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Germanicus |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:51:10 -0000 |
|
Salve Senator Palladie!
>While I think he was wrong on
>the issue you are referring to, his opinions on that issue did not hurt
>his chances of readmission to the Senate in a few months, if he will still
>be willing to serve amomg us. I hope he will be.
With this public statement, I am satisfied about the issue.
Vale!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:19 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Germanicus
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>
>On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
>> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>Salve Graechus!
>
>> >As for Germanicus, I'm not sure what his leaving and returning to Nova
>> >Roma has to do with your race for Tribune but I suppose it makes a good
>> >slogan for you.
>
>> About Germanicus, I started to like him on the day he risked not becoming
>> again a Senator of Nova Roma for the sake of the Constitution. Indeed he
>> makes a good slogan for me, because I'm proud of him and cannot stop from
>> trying to deserve the respect of my fellow citizens by not betraying him
as
>> many did throughout this campaign.
>
>Germanicus risked nothing in the debate over the Constitution. His
>speaking out neither hurt him nor helped him. It was a non-issue. The
>consensus among the senate and among many though not all citizens was that
>we should wait a few months before readmitting him to the Senate. This
>was decided before the Constitutional issue came up. So we are waiting. He
>is a consular and a Founder of Nova Roma. While I think he was wrong on
>the issue you are referring to, his opinions on that issue did not hurt
>his chances of readmission to the Senate in a few months, if he will still
>be willing to serve amomg us. I hope he will be.
>
>
>Vale,
>
>Palladius
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
><a href="http://www.onelist.com/advert.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html</a> for more information.
>
|
| Subject: |
Courtesy and Thoughtfulness |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:59:09 -0500 (EST) |
|
I agree completely with Cassius and Palladius regarding the necessity of
the subjects above.
I pledge to the citizens of Nova Roma that I will take the ideas of
Cassius to heart, and never to say, do or intimate to another member of
Nova Roma any comment which I would not use to myself.
Clever sayings are part and parcel of politics, but outright attacks and
name calling is a brutish way of delivering one's message. The real
politician, never allows impolite words or blunt acusations to pass his
/ her lips, but rather maintains the courtesy of an equal to whoever is
the target of the given speech. If you wish a good example, give your
attention to the meetings of the British Parliment, or the U.S. Senate /
House of Representatives, or for that matter, any government body in any
country.
If English is not your first language, you must be extremely careful not
to overstep the bounds of extraordinary courtesy, since English is a
strange language, and many pitfalls lie in it's usage, if you are not
cognizant with it on a daily basis.
I ask all of you who are candidates to adhere simply to the 'Golden
Rule." It is much maligned in our age, but "Do Unto Others As You Would
Have Them Do Unto You" is an excellent line to follow, even in rebutting
another's point or position. Another good thing to remember is "If you
can't prove it don't say it."
One would think that obvious, but apparently it is not. A person who is
perfectly innocent can be detroyed by gossip and half truths. I have
seen it happen here in America as well as in Spain, England, and
Portugal. Please, I ask all of you to consider Cassius' rules of
behavior as well as the above two, in communicating over this net It is
hard enough to communicate without no thought to courtesy.
We have lost two very valuable candidates essentially through the
ignorance of failing to consider courtesy
(My utmost regrets ladies for your decisions, but certainly you are more
capable than I of guaging your needs and your resources. I regret not
having you among us as candidates, but thank you both for your extensive
efforts on the part of Nova Roma).
Let us stop this now, and devote ourselves to providing to each other
the courtesy and thoughtfulness that we ourselves desire.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Gentes confusion (big time) |
| From: |
amethystcrystallight@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:00:28 -0600 |
|
Salvete --
I was wondering if there was a limit to Gentes? How many can there be I
know there are 115 now? I got curious enough to take another look at the
page. I thought what I found out was interesting. Could someone please
explain to me about Gens with no/unknown patron deities (39), no
knowledge if they are accepting new members/or just plain aren't (14) and
no members except the pater/materfamilias (88). The last one makes some
sense, since the pater/materfamilias is often in another country or
something. Is this a lot? I am not trying to pick any fights, I am just
trying to understand. I joined Junia gens because it worshiped mostly
who I did. Not specifically, yet close enough to win a bet. Should I
have started my own Gens (I'm not now, I like it in the one I'm in and
I'm not leaving until Palladius throws us out bag and baggage <G>)? And
I know (well, I'm 90% sure) at least one of the Patrician Paterfamilias
can no longer be contacted by email and has unsubbed from the emil list
thinking he wasn't NR's idea of a 'Roman Pagan' (don't ask me, I got this
information 6 months ago or better). and was waffling about whether or
not to just plain give up his citizenship. He WAS Pleben gentes, but now
has moved up to Patrician. Is this OK? Is there some sort of thing
somewhere that says if you don't participate, your gentes will be
cancelled or something? I never heard of most of these people. Maybe
that's like 'real' families tho (I know a higher percentage or NR than I
do my Bios family).
Could someone explain this to me please.
Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>
___________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: To would-be magistrates (long and impolite) |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:09:04 -0800 (PST) |
|
---RMerullo rmerullo@-------- wrote:
> Well, I would expect any election campaign to become at least a bit
> adversarial. In the case of Nova Roma's first election season, it
has been
> going a bit far in some places, but not in the former race for Praetor
> Urbanus. Scaevola and Sulla have been debating their positions on the
> agenda for the office reasonably and amicably. Am I the only civis
who is
> left wondering what drove Aprica out of the race?
I agree that the campaign for Praetor Urbanus has been an
amicable one. Sulla and Scaevola have had absolutely nothing to do
with my decision to resign, and as I said in my original post, my
decision has not come in reaction to _any_ individual, or _any_
particular event. I tried not to say anything too harsh in my original
post, but if you really want a fuller explanation, then I suppose the
honest truth is that I am not so enamoured with Nova Roma in general
as I used to be. Whilst there are many fine and good citizens in Nova
Roma, and I don't want to cause offence to any of them, I have slowly
become more and more disillusioned with some of the personal attacks
which I have seen on the e-mail list. I suppose this is a natural
feature of most internet discussions, and perhaps the truth is that my
personality is not suited to the general atomsphere of the 'net.
> >decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
>
> 'toying with for weeks'? But only a few weeks ago you announced your
> candidacy; ergo you started having second thoughts within a week or
so of
> declaring yourself in.
OK, perhaps it's more accurate to say that I've felt more and
more unhappy about Nova Roman politics since I declared my candidacy,
and became closely involved in it.
> But I have now decided that I simply do not have the surplus
> >energy to do that, and that the demands of my PhD are more important
> >to me.
>
> I do not mean this as a personal attack, but I really must at this
point
> express deep disappointment. I really do wish you well in your
endeavors
> and admire your pursuit of excellence, but I feel that a disservice
has been
> done to me and every other civis of Nova Roma.
Yes, I know - you have every right to feel this way. I know that
what I've done is hardly to be recommended, but at the end of the day,
I've had to make a choice - my commitment to a virtual community, most
members of which I have never met, or my commitment to my studies. It
had become clear that my PhD needed more time that I was able to give
it, and so I chose in favour of it. I don't just want to scrape along
in my PhD - I want to produce a really top-rate piece of work, and
that actually requires almost full-time attention. It occurred to me
that if I had spent all the time I have spent reading Nova Roman
e-mails on studying Latin instead, I would be virtually fluent in
Latin by now. When I come to the end of my life, I'd rather die
knowing that I'd achieved a sound grasp of Latin, than knowing that
I'd spent an hour reading e-mails every day. I'm sorry - that's kind
of harsh on Nova Roma. But it's how I honestly feel.
> > I know that by
> >withdrawing my candidacy, I am bringing down the number of candidates
> >for Praetor Urbanus to the same number as the positions, and thus
> >effectively depriving the people of a choice for this office.
>
> And that, plus this being the very first election in Nova Roma,
makes this a
> painful blow. Do you not realize, Aprica, that your race was for
some of us
> the only reason to bother voting at all?
This, I hadn't really realised, and I am truly sorry for it.
ut the magistracies and the elections
> a little more seriously and long. If one declares candidacy and
then backs
> out at the last minute, others who might have run fairly and served
well
> might have can in the worst case be thus swayed not to run; in the
best
> case scenario the legitimacy of the election takes a hit. In later
years,
> if we make it, recovery from such an incidence would be a sure
thing; that
> is not the case now!
Again, you're quite correct. I'm not really proud of what I've
done, and went through a lot of heartache before I finally decided to
do it. But I hope that what I did was the best way to handle how I
felt in the circumstances. The alternative would have been to stand by
and get elected, knowing that I wasn't really prepared to put my all
into the office, and then do a 'fading' act, as for instance some of
the early provincial preators did. Since I am responsible for several
offices, including the distribution of the Eagle in Europe, which
involves the management of Nova Roman money, I felt that the most
responsible course I could take would be to declare my resignation
now, and step down neatly and properly from the offices, rather than
failing to fulfill their duties properly.
> > I hope that the citizens of
> >Nova Roma can understand my reasons for this, and respect my
decision.
>
> It is your decision and I'll live with it along with everyone else.
For this, my thanks.
Valete,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: The end to bickering |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:25:32 -0800 (PST) |
|
---"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- wrote:
> I hope that she
> will reconsider giving up her positions.
I'm sorry, and flattered that you hope I'll reconsider, but I do
stick by my decision. Besides, going back on an announcement like that
really _would_ be irresponsible, and would give the people of Nova
Roma every reason to be extremely annoyed with me.
> Leaving is not the answer but
> staying to work with us is.
I know that this is true to an extent, and I had been trying to
tell myself that the best way to help make Nova Roman politics a
positive thing would be to stay in. But in the end, I wasn't
convincing myself any more, and knowing in my heart of hearts that I
simply didn't want to be part of the political scene any more, what
could I do? Keep on pretending, at the expense of my PhD, or admit how
I felt, and resign as responsibly as possible?
Again, I am sorry for the many ramifications my resignation has
had, but I as I have explained, for me it had really become the only
reasonable option. Believe me, I wouldn't have done it if I'd felt
there was any other path to go along.
Thanks for the support, Palladius, and all those others who have
voiced similar opinions.
Valete,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:43:45 -0800 (PST) |
|
---C--------us622@-------- wrote:
> So. We've lost one of our most skilled and knowledgable Praetors,
and the
> Province of Brittania is now without Nova Roman representation. My
hope is
> that we can learn from this, and not continue to make the same
mistakes.
>
Not quite - although I do intend to resign as Praetor, I am happy
to fill the post until a replacement can be found. I don't want to
leave Birtannia entirely in the lurch! I have already mailed the
citizens of Britannia to tell them that the post of Praetor is open,
and to ask whether any of them would be interested in taking it up.
I'll happily discuss the position and its responsibilities with anyone
who comes forward, and help to make the change-over to the new Praetor
as smooth as possible, laying down my post when the new person takes
up theirs. Ditto my position as Distributor of the Eagle - subscribers
need not worry, since I _will_ continue to send out the Eagle until
someone else can be found to do it. I suppose that is no-one at all
comes forth for either of these positions, then I will just have to
stick with them - I am not so irresponsible as to just abandon them
altogether. But I really do hope that someone will feel inspired to
take one each post, and perhaps serve Nova Roma better than I
ultimately feel I am able to.
> In any case, I thank Quinta Claudia Apricia for her efforts and
friendship,
> and do wish her well. Hopefully no one will think ill of either her
or her
> decision.
Many thanks for this Cassius. All Nova Romans can be assured of
retaining my friendship, and indeed to an extent, my efforts, as I do
still intend to play a part in Nova Roma, but of a different kind. As
a private citizen, I hope that I still will have the opprtunity to
contribute to Nova Roma, by for instance organising local gatherings
or researching topics of interest to the state. The difference will be
that I will be relieved of the pressures of political office, and can
make my contributions at my own leisure.
Valete,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: Latin translaiton and Nova pagina (web) Provinciae Italiae |
| From: |
"Fabio Incutti" incutti@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:49 +0100 |
|
Ave Merulle,
> I tried it and could not get through using MS Internet
> Explorer 4.0. Has
> anyone seen it yet?
I could read it whit MS Explorer, anyway I'll check for bugs.
>
> >I'm impatient to add the Latin version asap.
>
> (gulp)..Uh-oh..I'm not ready!
Well, I'll wait ;-)
>
> How are things going in the Collegium Advocatorum offline?
Hope to put it on the web next week.
>
> The Roman Legions page about which Venator informed us recently
> (<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/</a>) would seem worthy of
> inclusion.
Thanks
Vale
Primus Fabius C.
----------------------------------------------------
Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit
|
| Subject: |
Primus Fabius |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:34:05 -0500 |
|
Anyone who thinks there is too much bickering on the list has only to
read the excellent posts from Primus Fabius, who has consistently posted
good ideas and interesting information to this list.
Io Fabius!
--Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Gentes confusion (big time) |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:39:28 -0500 |
|
Amethystia I Crystallina wrote:
>
> From: amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
>
> Salvete --
>
> I was wondering if there was a limit to Gentes? How many can there be I
> know there are 115 now? I got curious enough to take another look at the
> page. I thought what I found out was interesting. Could someone please
> explain to me about Gens with no/unknown patron deities (39), no
> knowledge if they are accepting new members/or just plain aren't (14) and
> no members except the pater/materfamilias (88).
I'm the only "Claudia."
And although we may be Imperial, not many people want to join a gens
whose members regularly murder each other.
-- always looking over my shoulder at family dinners,
Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Saturnalia Eagle |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 15:08:41 -0500 |
|
I hate to break in on all the fun campaign blood-letting, but...
The Eagle deadline is approaching fast! And this month, it's an
all-Saturnalia issue! At least, I hope it will be -- depends on what you
guys send in!
You can look forward to not one, not two, but THREE yummy,
diet-destroying holiday recipes from Venator; Our usual Calendar with
all the festivals listed; an explanation of Saturnalia & it's customs
(although I'd like to have something about how the Legions celebrated --
I hear they had a real good time); and probably Patricia Cassia's TELA
ROMANA, although don't be disappointed if she doesn't get to it this
issue because of her house-moving -- we'll just make her do two of them
for January or February!
]
Plus some surprises and a new feature: Meet The Cives!
So do your voting, get the elections over with, and get busy writing for
the Eagle!
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Aqulia |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:10:43 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-03 14:36:46 EST, you write:
<< read the excellent posts from Primus Fabius, who has consistently posted
good ideas and interesting information to this list.
Io Fabius!
>>
That's my boy! So Claudia, my posts are worthless?? :-)
BTW Got my Aquila. Well done! As a newsletter editor myself I
understand the hard work that goes into one.
Again thanks. About subscriptions. There is a missprint. It says 5 dollars.
It should be 10, right?
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:16:23 EST |
|
Ok...I was going to save this question until after elections, but I think I
need to ask it here now:
Why do we need a Tribune of the Plebes? If all members are equal and the
whole Patrician title was just a reward to the first 20 or so members who
joined, what is the need for a Tribune of the Plebes? Do Patricians have some
other power or say that I'm not aware of? If not, then it seems that there is
more power in being a Plebe than there is being a Patrician. If such is the
case, either give the Patricians a Tribune...give the Patricians some power
over the Plebes that a Trib of the Plebes needs to protect his/her people
against...or eliminate a Trib of the Plebes (for next election).
Can someone help clarify and educate me on this?
Thanks,
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Attn: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office ... |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:18:31 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-03 06:33:58 EST, you write:
<< I'm proud of him and cannot stop from
trying to deserve the respect of my fellow citizens by not betraying him as
many did throughout this campaign. >>
Oh let's just not go there anymore....ok?
--Dexippus
"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision (long, but important) |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:30:50 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-03 06:57:42 EST, you write:
<< For my part, the unpleasantness which I have
seen has meant that I have today finally decided to implement a
decision which I have been toying with for weeks. I have been
disillusioned by the arguing I have witnessed to such an extent that I
wish to withdraw not only my candidacy for Praetor Urbanus, but also
to lay down my other official positions in Nova Roma, namely the
Praetorship of Britannia and my role as European distributor of the
Eagle. >>
Ok..I've been trying to keep somewhat quiet during this whole political thing
because politics is just not my ball of wax (nor do I want it to be). But I
feel that I must now enter my .02 cents here.
It is my personal belief that the whole election process has turned vicious
and out of hand. I'm in shock at the accusations flying across from one to
another questioning each other's character and position. I do hope that this
will not become a characteristic in each election.
Furthermore, it is my personal belief that the root cause of this unrest is
due to what I perceive as a move away from our first and foremost goal: The
Re-establishment of the Religio Romana. It was my understanding that the
rebirth of the Roman Pagan Religion was of foremost importance before anything
else. This is not to say that elections should not have been held until every
piece of the Religio was in place. However, it seems as though somewhere
along the line we dropped the ball on our focus on the Gods and moved more
into the secular and political mode.
The viciousness that is characteristic of this year's elections is due
undoubtedly (IMHO) to our turning of our heads and hearts from the Gods and
Goddesses of Ancient Rome (The Olympians who made Roma Antica the glory that
she was). We lost our soul in pursuit of the secular and the political. We
abandoned our protectors much like our Ancient Brethren abandoned them at the
first fall of the Empire. <<I know this is going to cause back lash from our
non-religious and non-Pagan citizens, but hell...>>
Therefore, my fellow citizens....let us turn back to our inspiration! Let us
open our arms to the spirit of our Pagan Ancestors! Let us re-dedicate
ourselves to the will of the Gods and Goddesses! Once we do so, they will
lead us down the road to Victory and Glory! And perhaps next year we will be
of greater strength and number!
Ave Romana!
--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Augur, Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
Masterofhistory masterofhistory@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:40:36 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete,
I have been asked that question before. I am working on a post which
explains the structure of the orders, the Tribune of the People and
basically why Roma Antiqua had such a convoluted form of government.
I want to do this without sounding condescending to some or insulting
to others' intelligence. The Roman government does not resemble the
government many of you learned about in civics class. When time
permits me I'd like to continue on this thought.
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Candidate for Tribune of the People
|
| Subject: |
Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:28:45 -0600 (CST) |
|
As I'm certain most of us are sick of people nonsensically slamming
each other, petty bickering, argueing, maligning, etc. etc. etc. there
really is a simple solution to end this once and for all. It is called a
CENSOR. Though a person in that office might be hesitant to do so maybe
what we do need is a classroom moniter of sorts and this is kind of what
the job is supposed to entail. Noone is going to like doing it and it
won't make for winning a popularity contest but in reality someone has
to do it. It has become self-evident.
There should be a policy set in effect prohibiting personal attacks,
disruptive posts, etc. and official guidelines for implementing somewhat
punitive action beginning with one or two private email warnings, and
depending on the severity up to and including termination of citizenship
for those select individuals who can't cease and desist yet with a legal
hearing of some sort for someone wishing to contest that if they so
desired. I don't think this would be too difficult to figure out and I
think we really need to start doing this. There is no reason or excuse
for anyone to have to put up with personal attacks in an otherwise
enjoyable place to be. A process such as I just mentioned would end
that and also discourage revenge minded posters in the future. Any
thoughts from our current Censors?
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:28:53 -0500 (EST) |
|
I always thought that a Tribune of the Plebs was a kind of rallying
point for programs that Plebians wished the Republic to consider, as
well as a way to stop the government (or attempt to stop them) from
actions that the Plebians disapproved of. To a great extent the
difference had it's root in wealth (what doesn't) and the fact that the
wealthy tend to end up in the Government sinc it takes a lot of cash to
put on games, pay supporters, buy special seats at the games, grease a
few palms, etc.
In our world, as it is today, since there is not a lot that money can do
for anyone at this stage (still useful though) there is no difference.
However, we are spread out over the world pretty thinly, and a Tribune
of the Plebs, in my mind should be creating a list of the things that
our citizens want done, and a list of what they don't want and be active
campaigning for the do's and against the do not's. Not so much as a
person helping just Plebs, but rather a person helping all citizens. It
is sort of the thng to have to, because it wouldn't be Roman no to have
them, and we are trying to be as Roman as possible.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: A carefully thought-out decision |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:33:56 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
Like all who have posted on this topic so far I too very much regret Q.
Claudia Lucentia Aprica's decision to withdraw her candidacy and resign her
official positions, and want to add my voice to the thanks to her for her
work for Nova Roma to date.
I think that the lesson for us all is not merely that we need to display
courtesy in our email exchanges, but that we need once the election is over
to focus ourselves more on constructive activities as opposed to
politico-constitutional internal disputes. Though Aprica kindly says that
neither Sulla nor I are implicated in her reasons for her decision, I am
certainly aware myself of having contributed to their being too much
politics, not enough religion & culture on the list.
As soon as this pub closes ...
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: Tribunes (Was Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...) |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:35:03 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Dexippus writes ...
>Why do we need a Tribune of the Plebes? If all members are equal and the
>whole Patrician title was just a reward to the first 20 or so members who
>joined, what is the need for a Tribune of the Plebes? Do Patricians have
some
>other power or say that I'm not aware of? If not, then it seems that
there is
>more power in being a Plebe than there is being a Patrician. If such is
the
>case, either give the Patricians a Tribune...give the Patricians some
power
>over the Plebes that a Trib of the Plebes needs to protect his/her people
>against...or eliminate a Trib of the Plebes (for next election).
I guess it's there because we're copying the Constitution of Roma Antiqua.
Why did the Romans keep Tribunes after the L. Hortensia in 287 BCE made
plebis scita binding on everyone, and the big class differences came to be
between Senatorials, Equites and the poor? The historians I have read say
it was mainly a matter of tradition, but in addition
(1) Since the tribunes could veto the acts of all other magistrates, they
could guard against a power-grab by the Consuls acting together.
(2) Provocatio ad populum, i.e. the citizen's right to appeal to Com.
Centuriata against a Consul's order that he be killed, worked by asking for
a Tribune's intercessio (veto).
(3) Under the Lex Publilia Philonis of 337 BCE no proposed law could be
introduced in the Comitiae Centuriata or Tributa without the prior
agreement of the Senate, and in any event only the Consuls could introduce
bills in these bodies (this last is reflected in our Constitution). The
practical/ political inconvenience of these rules meant that after 287 most
laws were introduced by Tribunes in the Concilium Plebis and passed as
plebis scita.
Thus even if the Tribune's job is no longer to uphold the Plebeians against
the Patricians, he or she still has an important potential role in civil
liberties & law reform ...
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fabii |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:10:08 -0500 |
|
SFP55@-------- wrote:
>
> From: SFP55@--------
>
>
> >>
> That's my boy! So Claudia, my posts are worthless?? :-)
> BTW Got my Aquila. Well done! As a newsletter editor myself I
> understand the hard work that goes into one.
> Again thanks. About subscriptions. There is a missprint. It says 5 dollars.
> It should be 10, right?
>
> Q. Fabius
Whoa! Got my Fabii confused! AND Q. Fabius, I should have said. You're
both terrific! You know how we women just get all flustered around guys
named Fabio.
The Eagle is a mere $5 for one year, $10 for 2 years -- such a bargain!
And we have an unexpected Celebrity Guest cover on the Saturnalia issue.
You cives don't want to miss this!
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: the voting page |
| From: |
"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:17:36 PST |
|
>As a candidate, I will not participate in the vote-counting, which will
>be yet another arduous task for Cassius.
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
Yet another thing to thank Cassi for!
THANK YOU CASSI!!!!!
Noct'a
Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae
__________________________________________________
To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man’s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor’s by history?
Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________
You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods
Hàvamàl (The words of the God Odin)
__________________________________________________
Quote of all time!
Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.
(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)
Vergil
__________________________________________________________
And especially for my friend Venator;
"The ill-minded man who meanly thinks,
fleers at both foul and fair;
he does not know,
as know he ought,
that he is not free from flaws."
-The Sayings of the High One
___________________________________________________________
And for those who believe they have little to offer,
"Not great things needs give to a man:
bringeth thanks oft a little thing;
with half a loaf and a half-drained cup
I won me oft worthy friend."
Havamal
|
| Subject: |
Fun time! |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:56:00 EST |
|
Salve,
Just wanted to let you know... Rusticus just resigned his Citizenship and sent
the Censors a very nasty letter. I know he was a friend of yours in the
chatroom and whatnot, so I figured I ought to let you know. Hey, it's rats of
a sinking ship time! ;)
Actually, I figured this would come a month ago during the "Constitutional
crisis" with Germanicus and Sulla. My timing must be off! It's sad but I'm not
terribly worried.. right after the elections I'll be able to devote my time to
building up the Citizenship and getting more historical stuff going.
Hope you didn't take this one hard... :P
Cassius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fun time! |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:00:27 EST |
|
AAAARRRGGGHHH! Now I know how Pythia felt... I was trying to send the message
about Rusticus to Flavia Claudia, and instead posted it to the list! Yeah,
it's just been one of those days.
Anyway, Flavia... that message was for you. I meanwhile, am going to go make a
*big* sign that says:
"DON'T SEND PERSONAL EMAILS TO THE NOVA ROMA LIST!"
and put it right up over my computer. Then I'm going to go take a nice
soothing shower, and go to bed early. So there! ;)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
OK STOP THIS NOW!!!! |
| From: |
"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:40:59 PST |
|
OK I am SO annoyed now.
What has become of the lot of you?
Why on earth are we lowered to getting at each other?
This is appaling behaviour, not what I expected of Romans at all!
Too much s**t has gone on now can you all just stop it and see if we
Fights between people are not what is needed
People have left and/or resigned their election application.Good people
too.
This is stupid and there's NO need in it at all
Can try to get back to somewhere near normal?
If not t
|
| Subject: |
OK STOP THIS NOW!!!! |
| From: |
"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:40:59 PST |
|
OK I am SO annoyed now.
What has become of the lot of you?
Why on earth are we lowered to getting at each other?
This is appaling behaviour, not what I expected of Romans at all!
Too much s**t has gone on now can you all just stop it and see if we
Fights between people are not what is needed
People have left and/or resigned their election application.Good people
too.
This is stupid and there's NO need in it at all
Can try to get back to somewhere near normal?
If not t
|
| Subject: |
OK STOP THIS NOW!!!! |
| From: |
"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:42:19 PST |
|
OK I am SO annoyed now.
What has become of the lot of you?
Why on earth are we lowered to getting at each other?
This is appaling behaviour, not what I expected of Romans at all!
Fights between people are not what is needed and especially not these
vicious attacks!
People have left and/or resigned their election application.Good people
too.
This is stupid and there's NO need in it at all
Too much s**t has gone on now can you all just stop it and see if we
can try to get back to somewhere near normal?
If not there's not much point in continuing.
Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Noct'a to her friends
Materfamilias of the Plebian Gens. Iulia Casearia
Barkeep of the Papillae Lupae
__________________________________________________
To be ignorant of what has happened before your birth is to remain
always a child. For what is the meaning of a man’s life unless it is
intertwined with that of our ancestor’s by history?
Cicero
Orator 120
____________________________________________________________
You will discover Runes and imaginative staves
Very great staves, very strong staves
Which a powerful thule paited, and great Gods created
Carved by the prophet of the Gods
Hàvamàl (The words of the God Odin)
__________________________________________________
Quote of all time!
Excudent alii spirantia mollius aeracredo equidem, uiuos ducent de
marmore uoltus,orabunt causus melius, caelique meatusdescribent radio,
et surgentia sidera dicent:tu regere imperio populos, Romane,
memento;hae tibi erunt artes, pacique imponere morem,parcere subiectis,
et debellare superbos.
(Others shall mould, I doubt not, the breathing bronze more
delicatelyand draw living features out of marble, others shall plead
causes moreeloquently, trace the motions of the heavens with a rod, and
tell therisings of the stars. Thou, Roman, forget not to govern the
nationsunder thy sway. These shall be thy arts: to crown peace with law,
tospare thew conquered, and to defeat the proud.)
Vergil
__________________________________________________________
And especially for my friend Venator;
"The ill-minded man who meanly thinks,
fleers at both foul and fair;
he does not know,
as know he ought,
that he is not free from flaws."
-The Sayings of the High One
___________________________________________________________
And for those who believe they have little to offer,
"Not great things needs give to a man:
bringeth thanks oft a little thing;
with half a loaf and a half-drained cup
I won me oft worthy friend."
Havamal
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fun time! |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:51:43 -0500 (EST) |
|
Thank you for the thoughtful gesture. I'm sorry to hear that Rusticus
has resigned but it is a third problem that I have heard this week (The
two ladies withdrawing).
I think that one has to think themselves important to do something like
that, and since I don't qualify (in my own mind) I guess a lot of it
goes over my head. I guess it would really bother me if you or
Palladius, or Venator, or Mettellus were to resign, but I guess I can
handle this disappointment.
Great minds work together; I was about to write you and tell you how
much I appreciate your extra work. I used to be in a similar case,
working quietly for a large group and never hearing any appreciation so
here's mine. I know you are working your tail off, and I appreciate it,
and further if there is anything that I can do to help, please do not
hesitate to ask. I really mean it. I don't write too bad a letter, and
if you tell me what you want done I will be glad to do it. I used to be
a technical writer in the Navy for a Lt, Cdr. who was a
real.........Well, anyway they called him Von Burtram behind his back.
You should be a cinch after him!!!!!!!! Anyway give it some thought.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: To would-be magistrates (long and impolite) |
| From: |
Ira Adams iadams@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:25:05 -0600 |
|
Salve Claudia Aprica.
As one who neglected his doctorate for a long time before finishing it, I
applaud you for having the courage to do the right thing. You have a lot
of time and work invested already, and your prime responsibility to
yourself _should be_ to follow through on what you have started there.
I am among those who regret that you may be participating less in the
immediate future, because I think your participation has been a positive
contribution toward the growth and maturity of Nova Roma. I hope we can
carry on without it, if necessary.
Things going on here have also caused me to pause and reconsider how
deeply I want to be involved here. So far, I've decided to hold out for a
while, although I did decide not to stand for a magistracy partly for
these kinds of reasons. There have been indications here of trends that
don't bode well for Nova Roma. I hope they don't continue.
Bona fortuna, Claudia Aprica! Don't leave entirely, please.
Lucius Sergius Australicus
quemadnoum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4bc - 65ad
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fun time! |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:40:47 -0500 |
|
C--------us622@-------- wrote:
>
> From: C--------us622@--------
>
> Salve,
>
> Just wanted to let you know... Rusticus just resigned his Citizenship and sent
> the Censors a very nasty letter. I know he was a friend of yours in the
> chatroom and whatnot, so I figured I ought to let you know. Hey, it's rats of
> a sinking ship time! ;)
>
> Actually, I figured this would come a month ago during the "Constitutional
> crisis" with Germanicus and Sulla. My timing must be off! It's sad but I'm not
> terribly worried.. right after the elections I'll be able to devote my time to
> building up the Citizenship and getting more historical stuff going.
>
> Hope you didn't take this one hard... :P
shit.
I'm taking the whole thing hard.
the wonderful Fabius has started a new column for the Eagle...Postcards
from Rome. Isn't that great?
-- FC
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fun time! |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:44:18 -0500 |
|
C--------us622@-------- wrote:
>
> From: C--------us622@--------
>
> AAAARRRGGGHHH! Now I know how Pythia felt... I was trying to send the message
> about Rusticus to Flavia Claudia, and instead posted it to the list! Yeah,
> it's just been one of those days.
>
> Anyway, Flavia... that message was for you. I meanwhile, am going to go make a
> *big* sign that says:
>
> "DON'T SEND PERSONAL EMAILS TO THE NOVA ROMA LIST!"
>
> and put it right up over my computer. Then I'm going to go take a nice
> soothing shower, and go to bed early. So there! ;)
>
> Vale,
>
>
Awwwww...poop. I just did the same thing and used profanity besides!
Sorry, all.
Uh...I guess the secret's out about the new Eagle column, huh? Well, one
more reason to subscribe! Only $5 -- cheaper than going to see "PSYCHO"
and twice as much fun!
Another rule...before you hit the "reply" button, make sure that your
correspondent didn't mess up! (Notice how I'm gracefully blaming
Cassi...?)
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: guns don't kill people... |
| From: |
Claudia missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:47:53 -0500 |
|
Ira Adams wrote:
>
> quemadnoum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.
>
> (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
> Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4bc - 65ad
Seneca? I thought Charlton Heston made this up!
So THAT'S where that bumper sticker originally came from.
-- FC
|
| Subject: |
Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:09:01 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/3/98 4:28:58 PM Central Standard Time,
dean6886@-------- --------es:
> There is no reason or excuse
> for anyone to have to put up with personal attacks in an otherwise
> enjoyable place to be.
Even though I have not personally attacked anyone online, or named any names,
or pointed any fingers (although I have sometimes questioned things) - I have
still been accused of doing such. People will take things personally which
were never intended as such - and even when the poster specifically stated
that it was not meant personally, it was still viewed as an attack by one
person or another. Online posting is difficult in many ways because words
alone must convey meaning. There are no voice tones, facial expressions, or
body language to observe and lend interpretation. And I've noticed few people
regard the helpful emoticons used. If someone wants to take a post personally
(even if the post was not directed at them), there is nothing anyone can do
(except ignore the responder, apologize - and I have seen few apologies
accepted - or attempt to explain and dig oneself in deeper).
If netiquette and peer pressure and plain comman sense aren't enough, seting
up a 'monitor' won't be enough either.
To institute a Censor to actually review and decide if any posts are attacking
posts (and possibly deleting them!) would make me leave Nova Roma so fast a
tornado couldn't keep up!
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: guns don't kill people... |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:29:45 EST |
|
Flav--------laud--------2/3/98 9:47 PM m--------oon@--------
>> quemadnoum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.
>>
>> (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
>> Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4bc - 65ad
>
>Seneca? I thought Charlton Heston made this up!
>So THAT'S where that bumper sticker originally came from.
>
>-- FC
Maybe basic truths just remain unchanged through the centuries?
L. Sergius Aust. (wish I could remember to send all my Nova Roma mail
through my Roman mail name!)
Here's another for the National Pilum Association...
cum ballistae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti ballistas habebunt.
(When ballistas are outlawed, only outlaws will have ballistas.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:32:58 EST |
|
Nodigio@-------- 12/3/98 10:09 PM Nodigio@--------
>If netiquette and peer pressure and plain comman sense aren't enough, seting
>up a 'monitor' won't be enough either.
>
>To institute a Censor to actually review and decide if any posts are
>attacking
>posts (and possibly deleting them!) would make me leave Nova Roma so fast a
>tornado couldn't keep up!
>
>Secunda Floria Zonara
I had thought of asking for a more active list moderator/moderators. What
gave me pause was that it might introduce a delay into the exchange of
ideas (and other stuff ;-)
Lot's of times, this list posts almost as fast as our chat room, and is a
whole lot easier to get along with.
L. Sergius Aust.
in ullam rem ne properemus.
(Let's not rush into anything.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Stop it! |
| From: |
"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:06:20 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete!
I just want to apologise for posting that message 3 times.
As you can see this is from my Yahoo address as my Hotmail account is
messing up!
It was an accident!
I don't, however, apologise for anything I said except to people who
have not said anything out of order to anyone.
I hope those people know I did not meanthem in that post.
A. I. C. Nocturnia
|
