Subject:	Last posting: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs.
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:02:23 -0000

Salve cives!

In these ellections vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs. He is the man who tells you the truth.

"Ego Concordiam amo sed veritatem populo romano occultare non possum nec volo" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:	"Fabio Incutti" incutti@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:19:12 +0100

Ave Gaius et avete alii,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Troy [mailto:dean6886@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:29 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
>
>
> From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
>
> As I'm certain most of us are sick of people
> nonsensically slamming
> each other, petty bickering, argueing, maligning, etc. etc. etc. there
> really is a simple solution to end this once and for all. It
> is called a
> CENSOR.

I'm sorry I do not agree with you. One of the greatest conquers of the
history of the mankind since the falling of Rome is the freedom of speaking
and our constitution recognize this right to our citizens. I think that NR
would not survive without.

This right implies that in the name of democracy you have to be patient and
to admit that someone else, more rude, unpolite and not educated has the
same right that you have to express himself. And the grater challenge is
that you are supposed to demonstrate the superiority of your being gentle,
educated and polite, only by the means of your ideas.

This in general. In the particular situation of this list, I think that
there is a number of possible solutions. First, a generic monitus from the
Authority (the Censors?) to respect the other citizens and the Virtutes of
Rome. Second, just set your e-mail program to ignore e-mail coming from some
individuals or having specified arguments and notify the thing to the
sender. I guess that the author will understand in short that his arguments
are not welcomed.

All of this without having any Big Brother watching at our postings to
decide if they are acceptable or not.

With respect and consideration (no personal intentions in this posting!)

Vale

Primus Fabius C.
----------------------------------------------------
Mihi Fortuna Adiuvat, Invidia Perit

Subject:	Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:28:11 EST

Salve!
well here is a suggestion. How about no campaining on the list other than to
post intent to run. Anything more than that use the Eagle , use a website
either Nova Roma or your own or pay for it your self. What would you think of
that.?

Ancinna Olivia

Subject:	Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:37:23 -0000

Salve!

>How about no campaining on the list other than to
>post intent to run. Anything more than that use the Eagle , use a website
>either Nova Roma or your own or pay for it your self. What would you think
of
>that.?
I still think that campaign messages bear no problem if well identified on
the heading.

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)


-----Original Message-----
From: Asseri@-------- Asseri@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 12:28 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION


>From: Asseri@--------
>
>Salve!
> well here is a suggestion. How about no campaining on the list other than
to
>post intent to run. Anything more than that use the Eagle , use a website
>either Nova Roma or your own or pay for it your self. What would you think
of
>that.?
>
>Ancinna Olivia
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: Last posting: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs.
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:18:00 -0800

My apologies for what I've thought. This clears it all up.
Graecus is a comedian. LOL

Ericius

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> Salve cives! In these ellections vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> for the office of Tribune of the Plebs. He is the man who tells
> you the truth. "Ego Concordiam amo sed veritatem populo romano
> occultare non possum nec volo" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:44:59 -0500

Salvete omnes

The only justifications for censoring someone's post would be profanity,
blatant name-calling or physical threats.

If we start to weed out 'disruptive posts' without a strict definition of
what makes it disruptive, there will be a stifling effect. In any group of
people there will always be disagreement, and even unfriendly behavior.
This is not a catastrophe but a part of life.

I am confident that the Praetores Urbani can build a framework for
resolution of disputes between cives, so that noone will be thinking that
they can make any wild accusation that suits their fancy with impunity.
This will reduce slanderous public statements.

But from what I have seen, this list is not all that outrageous. The
problem that really disrupted my communication was the barbaric invasions
into the chatroom, from which our noble Consul Marcus Cassius Iulianus has
defended us.

I have enough faith in my fellow cives of Nova Roma not to want to censor
their speech. If I did not feel that way, I'd just leave.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Troy dean6886@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION


From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)

As I'm certain most of us are sick of people nonsensically slamming
each other, petty bickering, argueing, maligning, etc. etc. etc. there
really is a simple solution to end this once and for all. It is called a
CENSOR. Though a person in that office might be hesitant to do so maybe

Subject:	Re: Last posting: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs.
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:37:32 -0000

>My apologies for what I've thought. This clears it all up. Graecus is a comedian. LOL
Hey! What are you doing? I'm doing my job seriously!!! =)

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
-----Original Message-----
From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 3:09 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Last posting: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs.


My apologies for what I've thought. This clears it all up. Graecus is a comedian. LOL
Ericius

Antonio Grilo wrote:

Salve cives! In these ellections vote Antonius Gryllus Graecus for the office of Tribune of the Plebs. He is the man who tells you the truth. "Ego Concordiam amo sed veritatem populo romano occultare non possum nec volo" - Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: Tribunes (Was Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:40:24 -0000

Vale!

>The historians I have read say
>it was mainly a matter of tradition, but in addition
>
>(1) Since the tribunes could veto the acts of all other magistrates, they
>could guard against a power-grab by the Consuls acting together.
>
>(2) Provocatio ad populum, i.e. the citizen's right to appeal to Com.
>Centuriata against a Consul's order that he be killed, worked by asking for
>a Tribune's intercessio (veto).
>
>(3) Under the Lex Publilia Philonis of 337 BCE no proposed law could be
>introduced in the Comitiae Centuriata or Tributa without the prior
>agreement of the Senate, and in any event only the Consuls could introduce
>bills in these bodies (this last is reflected in our Constitution). The
>practical/ political inconvenience of these rules meant that after 287 most
>laws were introduced by Tribunes in the Concilium Plebis and passed as
>plebis scita.
>
>Thus even if the Tribune's job is no longer to uphold the Plebeians against
>the Patricians, he or she still has an important potential role in civil
>liberties & law reform ...
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Magister dixit!

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ma--------r MikeMa--------r@--------
To: INTERNET:<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 10:40 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Tribunes (Was Campaign of Antonius Gryllus
Graecus...)


>From: Mike Ma--------r MikeMa--------r@--------
>
>Salvete omnes!
>
>Dexippus writes ...
>
>>Why do we need a Tribune of the Plebes? If all members are equal and the
>>whole Patrician title was just a reward to the first 20 or so members who
>>joined, what is the need for a Tribune of the Plebes? Do Patricians have
>some
>>other power or say that I'm not aware of? If not, then it seems that
>there is
>>more power in being a Plebe than there is being a Patrician. If such is
>the
>>case, either give the Patricians a Tribune...give the Patricians some
>power
>>over the Plebes that a Trib of the Plebes needs to protect his/her people
>>against...or eliminate a Trib of the Plebes (for next election).
>
>I guess it's there because we're copying the Constitution of Roma Antiqua.
>Why did the Romans keep Tribunes after the L. Hortensia in 287 BCE made
>plebis scita binding on everyone, and the big class differences came to be
>between Senatorials, Equites and the poor? The historians I have read say
>it was mainly a matter of tradition, but in addition
>
>(1) Since the tribunes could veto the acts of all other magistrates, they
>could guard against a power-grab by the Consuls acting together.
>
>(2) Provocatio ad populum, i.e. the citizen's right to appeal to Com.
>Centuriata against a Consul's order that he be killed, worked by asking for
>a Tribune's intercessio (veto).
>
>(3) Under the Lex Publilia Philonis of 337 BCE no proposed law could be
>introduced in the Comitiae Centuriata or Tributa without the prior
>agreement of the Senate, and in any event only the Consuls could introduce
>bills in these bodies (this last is reflected in our Constitution). The
>practical/ political inconvenience of these rules meant that after 287 most
>laws were introduced by Tribunes in the Concilium Plebis and passed as
>plebis scita.
>
>Thus even if the Tribune's job is no longer to uphold the Plebeians against
>the Patricians, he or she still has an important potential role in civil
>liberties & law reform ...
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: stopping it
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:49:00 -0500 (EST)

Cassia, I couldn't have said it better, myself.

Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Praetor SE USA Provincia


> Where does each of us fit in to the goal of developing a stronger and
> better Nova Roma? Only you can decide.


----------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Recipe: Honey Cake (to make us all so sweet)
From:	amethystcrystallight@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:14:18 -0600

Salvete --


I cannot remember everyone who expresses an interest in honey (only
Venator and Audens spring to mind), but as it seems NR needs a little
sweetness right about now, I am forwarding this to everybody. Make it,
eat it and be sweet!!!!!!


Fara Med Godanum! -- Crys and Terry and Lapis Stone (due late Feb.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Ivnia Crystallina and Primus Ivnia Terrelina
amethystcrystallight@-------- / mater2romani@--------
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: mater2romani@-------- (Amethystia I Crystallina)
To: amethystcrystallight@--------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:55:56 -0600
Subject: Fw: [pagantable] Recipe: Honey Cake
Message-ID: 19981204.081831.-2517.0.Mater2Romani@--------


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A.I.Crystallina (10/13/68) a.k.a Crys
P.I.Terrelina (3/31/97) a.k.a Terry
Lapis Stone (due February) a.k.a Lapis
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Jacques A'Lucard" glassma--------..
To: <a href="mailto:pagantable@--------" >pagantable@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:30:14 -0600
Subject: [pagantable] Recipe: Honey Cake
Message-ID: 3.0.5.32.19981203213014.0079ce10@--------

Honey Cake (Jewsih orgin)

1 stick butter, softened
1 cup sugar
4 large eggs
3/4 cup honey
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
3 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
2 1/2 teaspoons baking powder
1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
3/4 cup milk
1 cup walnuts, chopped

Honey Glaze

4 tablespoons butter
1/4 cup honey

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Cream together the butter and sugar
in
a bowl. Beat in the eggs one at a time. Stir in the honey and vanilla
extract. In another bowl. combine the flour, baking powder, cinnamon,
baking soda, salt, and nutmeg. Alternately stir parts of the flour
mixture
and the milk into the creamed mixture. Fold in the walnuts. Bake in a
greased 10 x 13 inch pan for 35 minutes, or until a knife inserted in the
middle comes out clean. For the glaze, heat the butter and honey,
stirring
to mix. Prick the cake with a fork and pour on the glaze. Makes about
two
dozen 2 inch pieces.

Enjoy!

Love, Light, Peace, and Big Bear Hugs,
Jacques

~~~
Goddess, grant me the serenity to accept those things I cannot change,
the
courage to change those I may, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those
I
had to kill because they pissed me off.

ICQ# 16645938
glassma--------..
--------ues.alucard@--------

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Subject:	A recipe and Re: stopping it
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:30:03 EST

Hailsa All;

Having been a bit of a torchthrower myself, I can only say that censorship of
the list - from an individual monitor - would not be conducive to the free
wheeling expression of ideas we have in Nova Rome.

If I may offer three ideas: be quicker at admitting mistake and offense, Keep
to the Virtues - Civic and Private - and think twice - pause - think again -
then self-edit. I have pledged to do so in future.

On another note entirely, an old family recipe. It goes nicely as a topping
for warm garlic bread. It is an Olive and Fig paste. A recipe from my
maternal grandmother's father's family - originally from the Campagnia Region
of Italy.

1 1/4 cup of oil-cured, pitted olives (an 8 oz jar should be sufficient),
drain
1/4 cup of anchovy fillets in oil (a 2 oz can should suffice), drain and
reserve oil
3 Tbs of capers, drain if using jarred
6 dried figs, rough chopped
1/4 tsp black pepper, coarse grind
1/4 tsp white pepper
1/4 cup extra Virgin olive oil
Put the olives, anchovies, capers and figs on a cutting board. With a large
chef's knife minced all the ingredients into a nice paste. Remove to a mixing
bowl and add in the remaining ingredients - stirring well.

(Flavia Claudia, before you abrade me for sending this to the list instead of
the 'Eagle' -Remember 'Good Recipes' to the list, 'Excellent Ones' to the
Eagle. SUBSCRIBE Y'all!)

-Warning: The usage of AOL is temporary while I find a new ISP dialer for
using 'Netscape'. All mail is being received via 'Netscape'. I just can't
send out right now.-

Vertu Saell! - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator

Subject:	Mechanics of replying was Fun time!
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:23:41 -0500

Salvete omnes


>Another rule...before you hit the "reply" button, make sure that your
>correspondent didn't mess up! (Notice how I'm gracefully blaming
>Cassi...?)
>


Even this is unsafe. If you want to send private e-mail, you may have to go
the whole nine yards and look up the person's address.

Every time I hit 'reply' on a Nova Roma message, it opens a new message to
the Nova Roma list quoting the message that I was just viewing. 'Reply' is
only good for posting to the list.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: censorship (another history lesson.)
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:12:15 EST

Salve!

Amazing. Now we are talking censorship!! And why? I mean most of the so-
called personal attacks were part of people's campaign. And if you are
students of history you would know that Romans conducted politics that way.

As far as I know we had no stabbings, (a common occurence) nobody's house
torched, though I think there were people who wanted to do that if they could
reach each other!! Consider. In the days of the Republic (as I'm fond to
say) the candidati would stand around the Forum each hawking their wares and
trying to out bellow each other! When he got tired or his voice gave out, his
nomenclator would take over. Followers of both (sectatores) would stand
around adding to the din. Votes would be bought by divisores, (no one tried
to bribe me, which I found disappointing) threats would made etc. to get that
citizen to vote for the aspiriant.
There was no police force for crowd control. The closest would be the
nocturni, who main job was to tell revelers to shut up so people could sleep!

Now think? How do you recreate this in our Forum? It would have been cool to
have candidates get their own sectatores from the citizenry so when they would
visit the Tavern or the Marketplace, their followers could type in every
minute "Vote for (name here) he parties better then anyone!!" Rather
disruptive. Well all we could do is attack each other's politics. Which we
did with Roman gusto. There was no colorful attacks on peoples' ancestory.
Instead everybody resorted to "mudslinging" as we Yanks call it. It ain't
American, but very Roman.
You'll notice that our Latin members said little about it, it is normal in
their countries, but out here in the good ole' USA, look out!! All of you,
don't be so thin skinned. Once this election is over I suspect much of this
will tail off.

Finally, may I make a suggestion? Next time you people read the list with a
stack of mail, start at the bottom and work your way up. After you have read
all the posts, than you can start commenting on them. That way you get the
full range of comments before you speak.

Just tryin' to help.

Vale
Q. Fabius

Subject:	Re: Wanted gentleman expert on naval war
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:31:21 EST

Salve Audens!!

You looking for me!!

Q. Fabius

Subject:	Re: censorship (another history lesson.)
From:	jmath669642reng@-------- (James Mathe--------/td>
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:40:04 -0500 (EST)

I really think your last posting is a great one. I for one did not know
a great deal that you said although I did know about those supporters of
the candidate. I for one, as a candidate would llike to have some of
these ideas down with some references to prove them (to others who might
want some proof after I torch their house--{just kidding (-: (-: (-:
})

I think your posting is right on, although a little late, maybe I can
practice for next year. I thought though that there was a police force
called the Urban Cohorts that served as a nite watch and also as a force
in putting out fires.

I shall save your posting for next year, and if you can think of any
other neat stuff like that, I for one would appreciate hearing about it.
Our motto is be more Roman right? Well, I pledge myelf to really work
on it next year!!!!!

Vale;
M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: censorship (another history lesson.)
From:	Claud----------------oon@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:40:45 -0500

SFP55@-------- wrote:
>
>
>
> As far as I know we had no stabbings, (a common occurence) nobody's house
> torched, though I think there were people who wanted to do that if they could
> reach each other!!

Yeah, I was disappointed in the lack of historical violence! had my
dagger all ready, too! Although I DID offer to arm-wrestle Palladius for
the Consulship and he agreed.

Consider. In the days of the Republic (as I'm fond to
> say) the candidati would stand around the Forum each hawking their wares and
> trying to out bellow each other!

We did this already.

When he got tired or his voice gave out, his
> nomenclator would take over. Followers of both (sectatores) would stand
> around adding to the din. Votes would be bought by divisores, (no one tried
> to bribe me, which I found disappointing)

Hey, I TRIED to bribe people! It's just that, as a Vestal, I couldn't
supply what they wanted. I had to fall back on money.


> Now think? How do you recreate this in our Forum? It would have been cool to
> have candidates get their own sectatores from the citizenry so when they would
> visit the Tavern or the Marketplace, their followers could type in every
> minute "Vote for (name here) he parties better then anyone!!"

Venator did this in the Chat Room and quite amusingly, too! And he DOES
party better than anyone.


Rather
> disruptive. Well all we could do is attack each other's politics. Which we
> did with Roman gusto. There was no colorful attacks on peoples' ancestory.
> Instead everybody resorted to "mudslinging" as we Yanks call it.

We tried mudwrestling, too, but none of the candidates were having any.
I was also kind of looking forward to the attacks on ancestry -- I was
going to print them in the Eagle's gossip column. Or NOT print them if
the -- ahem-- donation -- to the Treasury was generous enough.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Urban Cohors
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:49:34 EST

In a message dated 98-12-04 13:40:11 EST, you write:

<< I thought though that there was a police force
called the Urban Cohorts that served as a nite watch and also as a force
in putting out fires. >>
That was during the principate. It was formed by Octavian. It was three in
number. Later it was increased to a Legio's ten, but I forget under which
emperor.

Interestlingly Crassius had a fire dept during the republic. But it was a
"pay as you go" organization. You paid their price when they responded,
otherwise they'd let your villa burn. And if you were poor, forgedaboutid!!

Q Fabius!

Subject:	Campaign reform was Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:54:41 -0500

Salvete Olivia et alii



>From: Asseri@--------
>
>Salve!
> well here is a suggestion. How about no campaining on the list other than
to
>post intent to run. Anything more than that use the Eagle , use a website
>either Nova Roma or your own or pay for it your self. What would you think
of
>that.?
>
>Ancinna Olivia
>
Wow, Nova Roma is moving really fast; before the first elections are
officially over we're already talking about campaign reform :).

This is an interesting idea, one that would surely have a real impact on
both campaigns and list traffic. And it is reminiscent of the debate in the
U.S over whether tax money should be provided to candidates to support
campaign activities.

I favor equal access for all candidates; I do not want to lend my ears more
to one candidate than another simply because that one candidate has found
more sponsors for getting the message to me. I am more interested in what a
candidate says (or doesnt say), or, in the rare event that it is somehow
measurable, what the candidate has already done (or not done).

I therefore favor allowing candidates to use the Forum to promote their
ideas; after all, it seems to me that that is the main function of the
Forum, to propagate ideas.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Mechanics of replying was Fun time!
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:05:30 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, RMerullo wrote:

> From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
> Salvete omnes
>
>
> >Another rule...before you hit the "reply" button, make sure that your
> >correspondent didn't mess up! (Notice how I'm gracefully blaming
> >Cassi...?)
> >
>
>
> Even this is unsafe. If you want to send private e-mail, you may have to go
> the whole nine yards and look up the person's address.
>
> Every time I hit 'reply' on a Nova Roma message, it opens a new message to
> the Nova Roma list quoting the message that I was just viewing. 'Reply' is
> only good for posting to the list.

It depends on your system of course. On mine, it asks which address to
reply to. If I don't reply directly to the list, it then asks "send to all
recpients." I suppose it all depends on the program you use. Many people
think of Pine as primitive but i find it quite versatile.


Palladius


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Ritual of Concordia
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:12:31 EST

Patricia,

How long of a drive is it from New Jersey to Maine? I'm trying to fit this
into my hectic schedule.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Flaming- A SIMPLE SOLUTION
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:14:14 EST

In a message dated 98-12-03 17:28:54 EST, you write:

<< As I'm certain most of us are sick of people nonsensically slamming
each other, petty bickering, argueing, maligning, etc. etc. etc. there
really is a simple solution to end this once and for all. It is called a
CENSOR. >>

well, personally I think that would be the end. It is wrong to place one
person in charge of policing discussions. We are all adults and if we try to
behave civilized, I think we can resolve this without the aid of censorship.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Tribunes (Was Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...)
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:17:47 EST

In a message dated 98-12-03 17:41:45 EST, you write:

<< Thus even if the Tribune's job is no longer to uphold the Plebeians against
the Patricians, he or she still has an important potential role in civil
liberties & law reform ... >>


Then I ask again why not have the Tribune's position be voted on by all
members of Nova Roma instead of just by the Plebes?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Campaign of Antonius Gryllus Graecus...such as it is
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:15:55 EST

In a message dated 98-12-03 17:34:46 EST, you write:

<< a Tribune
of the Plebs, in my mind should be creating a list of the things that
our citizens want done, and a list of what they don't want and be active
campaigning for the do's and against the do not's. Not so much as a
person helping just Plebs, but rather a person helping all citizens. It
is sort of the thng to have to, because it wouldn't be Roman no to have
them, and we are trying to be as Roman as possible. >>


Then shouldn't the election of a Tribune be open to all Nova Romans regardless
of class distinction (i.e. Pats vs. Plebs)?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: OK STOP THIS NOW!!!!
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:22:55 EST

In a message dated 98-12-03 21:43:02 EST, you write:

<< OK I am SO annoyed now.
What has become of the lot of you?
Why on earth are we lowered to getting at each other?
This is appaling behaviour, not what I expected of Romans at all! >>

I second that!

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King

Subject:	A separate list for campaigning
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:25:32 -0500 (EST)

Salvete! Let me say publically that while my arguments with Graechus were
heated, I did not feel that they were not personal. I don't feel he
attacked me personally and I don't think he took any of what I said
personally. Politics can be rough, and some of us enjoy a good heated
argument, hypebole, demagoging and all. (You know those Tribunes of the
Plebs--:)just kidding!) It is really quite Roman. However, many people do
not enjoy it, they see political fighting in their own countries and feel
that politicians do more of that than get things done. This has become the
case here in the United States. In addition, it is the end of the campaign
season, voting has started and people are sick of politics for the moment.
Rather than exclude rough and tumble politics, I would be in favor of
setting up a separate list for it. Now I know the idea of separate lists
for one topic or another has been mentioned here but I think that a
separate list for earnest political discussion might really be a good
idea. People could still post political statements or adds on the main
list but argument would be for elsewhere. This list could be put in effect
the day after the Ides of October, the beginning of the campaign season
and close the day before voting would start. There the candidates could
arm wrestle, mud wrestle and argue to their hearts' content. :)

Just an idea,


Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Fun time!
From:
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:21:21 EST

In a message dated 98-12-03 21:07:16 EST, you write:

<< Just wanted to let you know... Rusticus just resigned his Citizenship and
sent
the Censors a very nasty letter. >>

On what grounds? Why did he resign? I think this is getting out of hand and
perhaps it's about time we take a look at what we are actually doing here?


<<right after the elections I'll be able to devote my time to
building up the Citizenship and getting more historical stuff going. >>

I would say let's fix the mechanism before we bring others into the fold.
There is obviously something wrong here if we have cives resigning and sending
nasty letters to censors and candidates foregoing positions and what not.

--Dexippus

"Can't we all just get along?" -- Rodney King

Subject:	Re: Ritual of Concordia
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:25:28 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> Patricia,
>
> How long of a drive is it from New Jersey to Maine? I'm trying to fit this
> into my hectic schedule.
>
About 10 hours, I hear from my friends in Mt. Holly.

-- Claudia

Subject:	Re: Ritual of Concordia
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:32:34 EST

In a message dated 98-12-04 16:28:41 EST, you write:

<< About 10 hours, I hear from my friends in Mt. Holly. >>

Oh Dear Gods! Ok...let me see what I can do.

--Dexippus

Subject:	The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:49:43 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 3 Dec 1998 Dexippus@-------- wrote:

> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> Ok...I was going to save this question until after elections, but I think I
> need to ask it here now:
>
> Why do we need a Tribune of the Plebes? If all members are equal and the
> whole Patrician title was just a reward to the first 20 or so members who
> joined, what is the need for a Tribune of the Plebes? Do Patricians have some
> other power or say that I'm not aware of? If not, then it seems that there is
> more power in being a Plebe than there is being a Patrician. If such is the
> case, either give the Patricians a Tribune...give the Patricians some power
> over the Plebes that a Trib of the Plebes needs to protect his/her people
> against...or eliminate a Trib of the Plebes (for next election).
>
> Can someone help clarify and educate me on this?


Well, while I agree with you to an extent, I think that the position
should stay historically accurate for a few reasons.

1. To change the nature of the position would be to take another step away
from Roma Antiqua.

2. The position does provide protection for the plebeians. While there is
less of a distinction bewteen patricians and plebeians in Nova Roma than
ancient Rome, there is one similarity between the ancients and us that is
obvious: the patricians, having been here first, have an early lock on the
power in Nova Roma. Often our name recognition is greater, we hold most of
the magistrate positions, priesthoods, etc, and have greater influnece by
having been here longer. The Tribune of the Plebs position helps relative
newcomers to Nova Roma by providing them a powerful position that people
who have been here a long time--in general--cannot run for and get a lock
on. Of course, as time moves on the plebeians by virtue of numbers will
gain most of the power, a parallel to Roma Antiqua. This year, while all
candidates for consul were patricians, only 1 of 3 for Praetor Urbanus was
and 1 out of 3 for quaestor was. In a few years there will little if any
political advantage to being a patrician.

In many ways we are copying Roma Antiqua quite closely. Is it fair that
plebeians only can run for the position of Tribune of the Plebs? Maybe
not, but it is Roman.


Palladius



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:47:17 -0500

D. Iunius Palladius wrote:
>
> From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
>> Rather than exclude rough and tumble politics, I would be in favor of
> setting up a separate list for it.

Wonderful idea! Palladius, still up for a little one-on-one arm
rasslin'? Or would you rather wait for Venator to fill the
pudding-wrestling pit? I was kind of looking forward to this -- what
other chance does a Vestal have for full-contact sports with a guy of
the opposite male gender?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Piperbarbus
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:11:32 -0500

Amgunn@-------- wrote:
>

>
> Vertu Saell! - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
>
For those of us who are Latin-challenged, would you tell us what
Piperbarbus means? I know "barbus" means "beard" but what's the Piper?
You play the panpipes or something?

Mystified,
Flavia Claudia

Subject:	gens Tullia
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:13:08 -0500

I've lost the address correction you sent me for the Eagle, with the
apt. number.
Would you please e-mail me again? Thanks.

-F. Claudia

Subject:	Re: Ritual of Concordia
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:20:37 -0500 (EST)

I do the trip from New London CT to Philadelphia, PA about thre times a
year and that is about 5 1/2 to 6 hrs with two rest stops. From here
(NL) to Boston is about two hours and from Boston to the Maine Border
about an hour and a half. The sticker is that the earlier you leave in
the morning the better time you make. We usually leave about 3 A.M. to
get to Philly by 7:30 / 8:00, Set up the tent, unload the truck, have
breakfast and get ready to play by 9:30 - 10:00 A.M. Next year in order
to attend a Roman Activity, I think I'll fly. The fares are pretty
cheap, and I can leave the driving to Eastern Airlines!!!!

A. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:36:44 -0500 (EST)

I think that's a good idea! At first I did not think so, but after the
campaign, I think it would be a good idea. One of the advantages wuld
be that you could carry out your campaign more in keepinng with a
Republican Rome Campaign. We are learning as we go, and if you do not
want to watch or listen to the campaign that's fine but if you wish to
vote for who you think is the best, then the cives will have to get down
and dirty with the candidates.

I would have liked to know what I know now about Roman Political
Campagning. I must now reconsider my choices for office based upon what
Palladius and Fabious have said.

I also tthink that prior to our next campaign (in
another year) that we should set up sme kind of rules based on Roman
Republican campaigning for the enjoyment of those political types who
enjoy rough and tumble politics.

I also think that at the same time we should remember that the Roman
Religio is still in place, and secure for those who need a place to
worship in their own way, and remember that a threat to the Religio is a
personal threat to our friends in Nova Roma

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: censorship (another history lesson.)
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:11:55 -0800 (PST)

> Yeah, I was disappointed in the lack of historical violence! had my
> dagger all ready, too!

That I'd have liked to see!!

Although I DID offer to arm-wrestle Palladius for
> the Consulship and he agreed.

So what happened? Can we still look forward to it?

> Consider. In the days of the Republic (as I'm fond to
> > say) the candidati would stand around the Forum each hawking their
wares and
> > trying to out bellow each other!

Well I have quite a reputation in The Taverna so, maybe if we take up
this custom I'll get elected even when I ain't standin!


> Hey, I TRIED to bribe people! It's just that, as a Vestal, I couldn't
> supply what they wanted. I had to fall back on money.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, should I comment on that? LOL
>
> > Now think? How do you recreate this in our Forum? It would have
been cool to
> > have candidates get their own sectatores from the citizenry so
when they would
> > visit the Tavern or the Marketplace, their followers could type in
every
> > minute "Vote for (name here) he parties better then anyone!!"
>
> Venator did this in the Chat Room and quite amusingly, too! And he
DOES
> party better than anyone.
>
Yes, we had our fair share of Grafitti! I should know, I had to clean
it up after work!!


> We tried mudwrestling, too, but none of the candidates were having
any.

Well we tried eh?
I did offer, even though I'm not standing!
I hope we can look forward to mud-wrestling, or rather
pudding-wrestling at the next elections!




Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Piperbarbus
From:	Amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:30:35 EST

Hej and Salve Flavia Claudia!

I have decided to change my Praenomen from Stephanus to Piperbarbus,
Pepperbeard.

This will bring my full Roman name, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, into accord
with my Asatru Religious use name, Piparskegg UllRsson Veithmadur -
Pepperbeard son of UllR the Huntsman.

It may not be completely correct Roman usage, but it is (I think) in the
spirit of a Norseman, living in Rome and "Latinizing" his name.

Vertu Saell and Vale!

Venator!

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:38:27 -0800 (PST)

> Wonderful idea! Palladius, still up for a little one-on-one arm
> rasslin'? Or would you rather wait for Venator to fill the
> pudding-wrestling pit? I was kind of looking forward to this -- what
> other chance does a Vestal have for full-contact sports with a guy of
> the opposite male gender?
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

Hehe!

As I've said before, count me in!!!!


Noct'a

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:46:02 EST

>I also think that at the same time we should remember that the Roman
>Religio is still in place, and secure for those who need a place to
>worship in their own way, and remember that a threat to the Religio is a
>personal threat to our friends in Nova Roma
>
>M. Audens

Where is this coming from? I'm not aware of any threat having been raised
against the Religio Romana. At least not an open threat -- I do think
there is a danger of dilution by people who want to equate it with
popular twentieth century pagan movements. However it suffered the same
sort of dilution in Roma Antiqua (which is probably what really led to
the fall of Rome).

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:04:03 -0800

And what would keep the lower life forms (lol nothing personal to anybody)from
spamming?

Ericius

D. Iunius Palladius wrote:

> From: "D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
>
> Salvete! Let me say publically that while my arguments with Graechus were
> heated, I did not feel that they were not personal. I don't feel he
> attacked me personally and I don't think he took any of what I said
> personally. Politics can be rough, and some of us enjoy a good heated
> argument, hypebole, demagoging and all. (You know those Tribunes of the
> Plebs--:)just kidding!) It is really quite Roman. However, many people do
> not enjoy it, they see political fighting in their own countries and feel
> that politicians do more of that than get things done. This has become the
> case here in the United States. In addition, it is the end of the campaign
> season, voting has started and people are sick of politics for the moment.
> Rather than exclude rough and tumble politics, I would be in favor of
> setting up a separate list for it. Now I know the idea of separate lists
> for one topic or another has been mentioned here but I think that a
> separate list for earnest political discussion might really be a good
> idea. People could still post political statements or adds on the main
> list but argument would be for elsewhere. This list could be put in effect
> the day after the Ides of October, the beginning of the campaign season
> and close the day before voting would start. There the candidates could
> arm wrestle, mud wrestle and argue to their hearts' content. :)
>
> Just an idea,
>
> Palladius
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Welcome to <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
From:	"Márcio Oliveira" marcio-oliveira@--------
Date:	Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:33:08 -0200

Thanks a lot Patricia

Severo Tracius Primus
Citizen

<a href="mailto:novaroma-owner@--------" >novaroma-owner@--------</a> escreveu:

> Salve! (hello!)
>
> Welcome to the Nova Roma list! The topic of this list is anything that relates
> to ancient Rome or to the modern organization called Nova Roma. If you arrived
> here without checking out the Nova Roma web site, please go to
> <a href="http://www.novaroma.org" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org</a>. Citizenship is free, and we invite you to apply.
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
> www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
> on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
> between digest and normal mode.
>
> Thanks,
> Patricia Cassia
> Quaestor, Nova Roma

Subject:	Re: A separate list for campaigning
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:47:20 -0500

Salvete Deci Iuni et alii


: Rather than exclude rough and tumble politics, I would be in favor of
:setting up a separate list for it. Now I know the idea of separate lists
:for one topic or another has been mentioned here but I think that a
:separate list for earnest political discussion might really be a good
:idea. People could still post political statements or adds on the main


At the risk of annoying cives sensitive to "me too" posts, I have to say
that this idea seems too sound not to receive my expression of support.


Me too.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Moriturne Res Publica
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:56:24 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii


:
:I would say let's fix the mechanism before we bring others into the fold.
:There is obviously something wrong here if we have cives resigning and
sending
:nasty letters to censors and candidates foregoing positions and what not.
:
If Nova Roma is a serious organization undertaking actually to do something
(and I think that it is), it is inevitable that some people will not agree
with the direction and jump ship.

If the rate of defections surpasses that of enlistment, the war will of
course be lost. Thus far that has not happened, even during numerous
crises. The prognosis is still good.

I think that you are right in pointing to Religio Romana as the force that
can bind us together, Dexippe, even though it will prevent many casual
enthusiasts of Rome from joining.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus