| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan") |
| From: |
michael marconi mdm8@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Dec 1998 17:21:40 -0500 |
|
Salve!
I couldn't agree with you more ! You are differently right with your
observation in that almost all pagan, witchcraft and wiccan books are Celtic in
nature.
What follows is a few books that I had planned on ordering. I would
appreciate any info that you can give me --about the books.
John Drescher-" Invocations and Benedicitions for the Revised Common Lectionary"
Donald Michael Kraig-"Modern Magick:Eleven Lessons in High Magical Arts."
Franz Bardon-"The Practice of Magical Evocation"
Ray T. Malbrough-"The Magical Power of the Saints;Evocation and Candle Rituals"
Barbara E. Vordebrueggen-"Summoning Forth Wiccan Gods & Goddesses: The Magic of
Invocation &Evocation."
If you hadn't already guessed it, I am a Christian and a Pagan! I believe
that one can see the truth(s) in both practices with out being a heretic in
either.
Vale!
Lucius Marconius Romanus
Fortuna fortibus favet.
Cheri Scotch wrote:
> From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: A. Iulia [SMTP:iuliacaesaria@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:48 PM
> > To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> > Subject: [novaroma] Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
> >
> > From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
> >
> >
> > I, personally, came to Paganism first and when I came across the
> > Religio Romana and started to practice it I called myself a Roman Pagan.
> > I visit a Pagan chatroom almost as much as our own Taverna (which some
> > people can testify to being a *lot*), and when I say I follow the
> > Religio Romana they haven't a clue what I mean, actually not many
> > understand Roman Paganism either, but there's more chance they'll
> > understand what I mean if I say that.
> >
> Here's your chance to educate. Most "pagans" don't know a damned
> thing about paganism. Not before Gerald Gardner anyway,and they barely know
> who HE is. They know Celtic -- or think they do -- because all the Llewellyn
> books talk about it and it's just so trendy and everyone knows you can't be
> a witch unless you're Celtic (read: Irish -- they stop there.) They might
> admit that, OK, Asatru exists. Somewhere. They have this friend who thinks
> that Thor Rules. And some of them might have seen part of "I,Claudius" while
> surfing towards the Fox network to watch "Charmed."
>
> But to them, pagan is heathen and heathen is Irish Celtic.
>
> Greek, Roman, Etruscan....the reaction is usually "duh". Although
> they might know about something called Sumerian because the Necronomicon is,
> like, so cool.
>
> If I sound disgruntled it's because I just finished an interview in
> which the interviewer asked me if I believe in witches. I said no, but I DO
> believe in the Medusa, which kind of put an end to a wasted hour of clueless
> questions. She also asked me how I could practice paganism because none of
> it was ever written down, so didn't we have to make it all up?
>
> Where's Homer, Virgil, Cicero, et al when you need 'em?
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan") |
| From: |
michael marconi mdm8@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Dec 1998 17:27:03 -0500 |
|
Salve!
I couldn't agree with you more ! You are differently right with your
observation in that almost all pagan, witchcraft and wiccan books are
Celtic in nature.
What follows is a few books that I had planned on ordering. I would
appreciate any info that you can give me --about the books.
John Drescher-" Invocations and Benedicitions for the Revised Common
Lectionary"
Donald Michael Kraig-"Modern Magick:Eleven Lessons in High Magical
Arts."
Franz Bardon-"The Practice of Magical Evocation"
Ray T. Malbrough-"The Magical Power of the Saints;Evocation and Candle
Rituals"
Barbara E. Vordebrueggen-"Summoning Forth Wiccan Gods & Goddesses: The
Magic of Invocation &Evocation."
If you hadn't already guessed it, I am a Christian and a Pagan! I
believe that one can see the truth(s) in both practices with out being a
heretic in either.
Vale!
Lucius Marconius Romanus
Fortuna fortibus favet.
Cheri Scotch wrote:
> From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: A. Iulia [SMTP:iuliacaesaria@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:48 PM
> > To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> > Subject: [novaroma] Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
> >
> > From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
> >
> >
> > I, personally, came to Paganism first and when I came across the
> > Religio Romana and started to practice it I called myself a Roman
> Pagan.
> > I visit a Pagan chatroom almost as much as our own Taverna (which
> some
> > people can testify to being a *lot*), and when I say I follow the
> > Religio Romana they haven't a clue what I mean, actually not many
> > understand Roman Paganism either, but there's more chance they'll
> > understand what I mean if I say that.
> >
> Here's your chance to educate. Most "pagans" don't know a
> damned
> thing about paganism. Not before Gerald Gardner anyway,and they barely
> know
> who HE is. They know Celtic -- or think they do -- because all the
> Llewellyn
> books talk about it and it's just so trendy and everyone knows you
> can't be
> a witch unless you're Celtic (read: Irish -- they stop there.) They
> might
> admit that, OK, Asatru exists. Somewhere. They have this friend who
> thinks
> that Thor Rules. And some of them might have seen part of "I,Claudius"
> while
> surfing towards the Fox network to watch "Charmed."
>
> But to them, pagan is heathen and heathen is Irish Celtic.
>
> Greek, Roman, Etruscan....the reaction is usually "duh".
> Although
> they might know about something called Sumerian because the
> Necronomicon is,
> like, so cool.
>
> If I sound disgruntled it's because I just finished an
> interview in
> which the interviewer asked me if I believe in witches. I said no, but
> I DO
> believe in the Medusa, which kind of put an end to a wasted hour of
> clueless
> questions. She also asked me how I could practice paganism because
> none of
> it was ever written down, so didn't we have to make it all up?
>
> Where's Homer, Virgil, Cicero, et al when you need 'em?
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
>
> -------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
MithraCon II |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:23:59 -0500 (EST) |
|
For those of you who may be interested, I forward this message for your
review. The CC above will be able to answer specific questions that you
may have.
I had talked with Cassius about Mithrras, shortly after I joined Nova
Roma and he had indicted that there might be an interest in Nova Roma in
regard to this relegion. It was one of the favorite religions of the
Roman Legions and is the religion of the character that I have written
some few stories about and shared with the Eagle Editor. I hope that
offering meets the needs of someone within Nova Roma.
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: What Shoud I do??? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:13:53 -0500 (EST) |
|
I would like to join with Patricia Cassia in welcoming you to Nova Roma.
You are most welcome to our micronation. You ask what you can do and
how you can get started. You are in much the same situation as I was
when I joined just a few months ago. Patricia Cassia has given you an
excellent set of ideas, and probably all that I can do, perhaps, is to
provide you a couple of tips, but here we go:
Since you are a new member, we (Nova Roma) can only surmise that you
have read the Nova Roma homepage and have reviewed the Constitution that
you will find there as well as several interesting statements as to who
we are, and what we do. There is also a list of the current officers of
the micro-nation (which will change in January). What I did was to take
that list and add to it all the E-Mail addresses for each of them and
added normal mail addresses for the few people who had exchanged them
with me for specific purposes. Then I read through the messages on the
Message Board which will give you a good idea, what our interests are,
and how we look at the world. At this point you will be ready for the
Chat Room. I recommend that you spend some time there chatting with the
members and getting to know them and letting them get to know you.
I strongly recommend that you log onto the Email List (Onelist) and read
the omments from the various personnages that use the list. Feel free
to comment on any of the messages either personnally or to the list. In
the case of a disagreement, and the disagreement is considereble, the
whole list would like you to consider taking the argument into the
personal E-mail address of your corresponder. There are disagreements
and they are part of our micro-nation. It is how things are determined
at ths point in our history, and are not to be shunned. Remember too,
that a polite argument can often be a convincing one.
I would urge also that you look seriously at subscribing to our Nova
Roma Magazine, the Eagle, and enjoy the wide variety of samplings of
Roman life that our editior has provided for your enjoyment.
Having done all that, you should begin o have some ideas about the
things that we do, the things we are interested in as well as some of
our goals. At that point you should make some decisions about what you
are inteested in, and contact those people who have similar interests
and discuss with them your ideas.
There are quite a variety of interets in Nova Roma, just to list a few;
Religion, politics, Roman Republican Government, the Military (navy or
the legions), Citizen participation, Voting, Everyday Roman Lifestyle,
Duties of elected and appointed officers, the geographical division of
Nova Roma and what is being done by the Praetors of those divisions for
the citizens of that division. There are many other areas of interest
in addition to those which are too numerous to list here. In order to
get to know us, you must be a frequent contributor, as well as a good
listener. If you still have questions as Patricia Cassia, has
generously offered before me, do not hesitate to contact me at my
personnal E-Mail address or upon the Onelist with your Questions,
Comments or Ideas.
Once again welcome to Nova Roma; our strength is in our individual
citizens whom we hold valuable and the key to new ideas and new
endeavors!!!!
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant ;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune
Legio XXIV--Specialist in Engineering and Cartography
Standing for the Office of Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: What Shoud I do??? |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:37:55 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-07 23:50:23 EST, you write:
<< I'm Severo Tracius, from Brazil and I can to this nation a few days ago.
I'm completely lost and I wanna know how can I help the improvement of
this nation and how can I work here. >>
Welcome aboard friend! Join in anyway you feel comfortable. Perhaps one of
our citizens in Brazil can help you if they haven't spoken to you already.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:25:11 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-07 16:07:50 EST, you write:
<< The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that there is
one
other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>
Those positions are held for life, correct?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Religio Romana |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:29:58 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-07 18:28:19 EST, you write:
<< Actually, 'Religio Romana' is left as is, untranslated, as the name of the
state religion in several places on the website. Why not stick with that
term? Noone calls catholicism 'Religio Romana'; they may confuse 'Roman
religion' with catholicism, but that's a different matter. >>
I wasn't suggesting we change "Religio Romana" to "Roman Paganism" anywhere it
reads in the websit. Only that we should be (as we all are) aware that Roman
Paganism is the official state religion in Nova Roma. And that the Founders
clearly defined what is meant by Roman Paganism in such documents as
"Declaration of Roman Paganism" and "What We Mean By Pagan Reconstruction".
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan") |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:27:46 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-07 18:04:50 EST, you write:
<< What follows is a few books that I had planned on ordering. I would
appreciate any info that you can give me --about the books. >>
The only one on your list that I have read is Donald Michael Kraig's "Modern
Magic". It is a great book. If you are interested in Kabbalah, it's clear
and concise. However, don't get caught up in all the hooplah of memorizing
all the correspondencies and such. It can get mind boggling.
--Dexippus
<<my first teacher drilled Kabalah into my head...now I can't stand the damn
thing!>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan") |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:34:32 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-07 19:18:52 EST, you write:
<< Though the public religion has nothing to do with let's say Wicca there
can be a great deal of adaptability for members of the Wiccan community
or any other religious community to mix and match in private religious
worship. >>
Absolutely! I incorporate a lot of Classical Roman Paganism into my Wicca
practice. For me, Wicca is the foundation of the ritual structure, Classical
Roman Paganism is the house built on top.
It is a shame that many "wiccans" out there haven't a clue of the great Pagan
traditions of the Mediterranean. They equate being Pagan with being of an
Irish (Celtic) tradition. It's sad...didn't they ever have a Classics course
in grammar school?
I can remember learning the Greek Myths in grammar school. I was about the
same age as when I was going to catechism classes for my catholic upbringing.
I can remember one day the Nun asking me to lead a prayer to God....I stood up
and invoked Zeus! Oh the look on her face! : )
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan") |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:02:55 -0500 (EST) |
|
Although I am cetainly no expert on Catholic Beginning schools, I do
have two teaching credentials for teaching in California. I do not
believe that I have ever heard of teaching Classics at any level but the
college level. I know that I have never had a course in it, in the 13
different schools that I attended during my first 12 years in school,
altough I did study it. on a personal basis quite intensely in the Navy
in my younger days. None of my training in San Diego City schools or
the San Diego County Schools as a teaching cadet and later as a
researcher ever reveled any training even remotely similiar. I
completed my Master's in Education in Reading, also without ever hearing
mentioned such a course in public schools, and with my personal
background in the Classics, I am sure I would have at least noted it's
being offered.
I think that you are 100% correst in that there are not very many people
who get anything like what you suggest. I, of course, cannot comment on
church sponsored education systems and their curriculums except to say
that I am well aware that the Catholic High School students I knew in
Portland, Oregon where I lived for the three years it took me to finish
High School, seemed to be the recipients of a much superior all around
education than was offered to me. I did, however, attend a Polytechnic
High School where if one applied him / herself one could easily get a
job with the training provided and have a two year head start on the
four year Oregon Apprenticeship Program. I f you were an A student, you
could expect at least two job offers upon graduation. I was one of the
lucky ones; I had an A- average out of High School and had three job
offers. At the time that was important to me and my parents, as neither
of them had ever gone past their Sophamore Year in school due to the
Depression and requirement to leave school and work for the home. But.
I joined the Navy and made that my career, much to the disappointment of
my mother at least.
M. Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
return of the prodigal |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Dec 1998 18:47:48 PST |
|
Salve Omnes,
It's the erstwhile Lucina Iunia Cypria, back from a long exile in the
land of no internet access. It seems like I've missed quite a bit, since
my only contact with Roma was the Eagle. Reading over the latest posts
has left me both happy that things are still tooling along and dismayed
that such acrimoniousness is being displayed. Nonetheless, I am back and
happy to be so.
Vale,
L. Iunia Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: Terminology ( |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:52:46 PST |
|
----Original Message Follows----
|
| Subject: |
Re: Gods in School (was Terminology ("Roman Pagan")) |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:39:13 -0800 |
|
James Mathews wrote i response to Dexippus:
> Although I am cetainly no expert on Catholic Beginning schools, I do
> have two teaching credentials for teaching in California. I do not
> believe that I have ever heard of teaching Classics at any level but the
> college level. I know that I have never had a course in it, in the 13
> different schools that I attended during my first 12 years in school,...
I went to school my first 11 years in New Jersey, ca. 1949-1960, and I had the
Greek and Roman religion in elementary school. In Junior High School the old
religions were mentioned in the relevant places in history class. I seem to
remember "Mythology" (that's what it was all classified as) being a part story
time for those years we had that. We also had what were purported to be African,
Chinese and "Indian" (AmerInd) mythology. And Aesop's fables. I plumb got sick
of Aesop's fables!
One of the reasons might (Repeat -- *Might* ) have been that the school was still
running on FDR's New Deal ideology. With the WW-II patriotism rituals of
everybody is great, we are all one world family, we can do anything if we pull
together. [Me? I was mainly in a daze and trying to dodge bullies and other
terrors.]
Another possible factor was that the neighborhood was largely Italian ancestry
(grandparents being off the boat). This would be less of an influence than the New
Deal classicism than some might assume because the Italians were not possessed of
any real (school board) power that showed. The Irish still ran the town a nd they
had no intention of giving it up. Of course demographics ignores politics,
whether legitimate or otherwise.
Yes. I got a good introduction to Classical Mythology from school, and pursued it
further in the libraries I had access to, the school's and the branch public
library. Of course reading didn't help me get on any better than the school
bullies, I just escaped them.
Audens, it was during my hitch in the Navy that I first read Livy's Early History
of Rome, as well as the Aeneid, Cicero and Horace. And re-read the Odyssey --
Again.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
|
