Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 Dec 1998 22:22:19 +0000

Dexippus@-------- wrote:


> I can remember one day the Nun asking me to lead a prayer to God....I stood up
> and invoked Zeus! Oh the look on her face! : )

Now there's a good boy......

Pythia

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 Dec 1998 00:04:21 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-12-07 16:07:50 EST, you write:
>
> << The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that there is
> one
> other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>

Flamen Dialis, I think.

>
> Those positions are held for life, correct?
>
I think this is a MAJOR area for change in the Constitution, although
it's historically correct.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 Dec 1998 00:06:31 -0500

Pythia wrote:
>
> From: Pythia kingan@--------
>
> Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> > I can remember one day the Nun asking me to lead a prayer to God....I stood up
> > and invoked Zeus! Oh the look on her face! : )
>
> Now there's a good boy......
>
> Pythia

What do you wanna bet he didn't get any Holy Card for that one?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:27:36 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 01:53:33 EST, you write:

<< None of my training in San Diego City schools or
the San Diego County Schools as a teaching cadet and later as a
researcher ever reveled any training even remotely similiar >>

I went to St Augustine High School in San Diego. North Park Area.

I was reading translated Latin Classics at 9th grade, by 10th we were starting
on translating the Gallic Wars into English, because of its clear classical
Latin. In Drama I was studing The Merchant of Venice, and other Shakespeare
plays. We were starting comparitive religions, and touched briefly on the
Religio Roma.

I became a believer in the gods in the 11th grade. I'd spill several drops of
my drink in sacrifice, i'd light candles to dieties, but I had to keep it a
secret, as I came from a good Catholic family.

Because I received a Classical education, this is the reason I believe in the
gods today. The Catholic leadership (in my opinion) concated a "minstrone" of
all of the avilable religions, to make it attractive to all citizens of Rome.

Therefore, there is no Pagan as far as I see. Our gods were here first. It
is the Catholics "The self proclaimed one true religion" who labeled us Pagans
and false god worshippers. Since our Rome, like the Late Republic and The
Early Principate, tolerate all religions, no one is a Pagan. We all worship
and honor gods or a god, each in our own way. I move that the word Pagan be
dropped from our Nova Roma Lexicon and soon.

Q. Fabius Maximus
Paterfamiles Gens Fabian

Subject:	Re: return of the prodigal
From:
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:12:13 -0500

>
>Salvete Omnes et L. Iunia Cypria
>
>It's the erstwhile Lucina Iunia Cypria, back from a long exile in the
>land of no internet access.>snip< Nonetheless, I am back and
>happy to be so.
>
I hope I speak for everyone when I say "Good to have you back!"

Ave ac Valete, L Equitius

Subject:	Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:37:50 -0500

Salvete Quirites

>> << The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that there
is
>> one other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>
>
>Flamen Dialis, I think.

Also the Flamen Martialis et Flamen Quirinalis.
>>
>> Those positions are held for life, correct?
>>
Yes.

>I think this is a MAJOR area for change in the Constitution, although
>it's historically correct.


ART.VI sec.3 of the Nova Roma Constitution states"...fifteen Pontifices, six
of whom must be of the Patrician class, six of whom must be of the the
Plebian class and three of whom may be of either class."
Let us try to get the College Pontificium up and running before we
think about changes.

Valete, L Equitius Cincinnatus, Flamen Martialis

Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:59:19 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 01:53:32 EST, you write:

<< I, of course, cannot comment on
church sponsored education systems and their curriculums except to say
that I am well aware that the Catholic High School students I knew in
Portland, Oregon where I lived for the three years it took me to finish
High School, seemed to be the recipients of a much superior all around
education than was offered to me. >>

well I went to Public Schools all my life. Those catholic children in public
school had to go to seperate catechism classes to learn all the pope stuff.
So when I was asked to lead prayer, I utilized what I had learned in my
secular school...Zeus was God therefore he should be mentioned in prayer. : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:00:55 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 03:27:47 EST, you write:

<< Since our Rome, like the Late Republic and The
Early Principate, tolerate all religions, no one is a Pagan. We all worship
and honor gods or a god, each in our own way. I move that the word Pagan be
dropped from our Nova Roma Lexicon and soon. >>

Yes...but I like the term "Pagan". I like the identity. And since our modern
society is so bent on labels, why not use it.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Gods in School (was Terminology ("Roman Pagan"))
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:53:30 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 01:24:14 EST, you write:

<< I went to school my first 11 years in New Jersey, ca. 1949-1960, and I had
the
Greek and Roman religion in elementary school. In Junior High School the old
religions were mentioned in the relevant places in history class. I seem to
remember "Mythology" (that's what it was all classified as) being a part
story
time for those years we had that. >>


Yes. We didn't learn any Latin or anything like that. But I was introduced
to fables of the Greek Gods and Goddesses in elementary school. We needed to
know the 12 Olympians and some well known myths like Cupid and Psyche and
Pandora's Box. Then in Junior High we were introduced to the Iliad and the
Odyssey and dwelve much further into it.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:56:04 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 01:45:34 EST, you write:

<< What do you wanna bet he didn't get any Holy Card for that one? >>

Nah...I was immediately led by my ear out into the hall where the Nun
repeatedly slapped my knuckles with a ruler. I can remember crying. My mom
was called to come pick me up. I can remember sitting in the Nun's office and
having my mom walk in. She sat down and laughed. I then laughed too. She
said, "what made you pray to Zeus?". I said, "She (the nun) asked me to lead
a prayer. I didn't think it mattered to what god." My mom just laughed and
gave me a hug and kiss and we left. It was never mentioned after that.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Classics wasTerminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:14:43 EST

In a message dated 12/9/98 12:53:33 AM Central Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

> Although I am cetainly no expert on Catholic Beginning schools, I do
> have two teaching credentials for teaching in California. I do not
> believe that I have ever heard of teaching Classics at any level but the
> college level.

Really? My children got Ancient history in the 6th and 8th grades - covering
ancient Rome, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, etc. They covered not only the
history, but the legends, myths, and religions of the area and era. The
students were encouraged to do creative research, and to dress the part for
reports. In the 9th, 10th, and 11th grades, my daughter took Latin, and the
teacher taught not just the language but the culture and religions of the
countries which used Latin. They've read several of the plays of the era, and
know some of the architectural styles, and even had a day at school where they
shared the foods eaten then (the school cafeteria prepared it and served it as
a normal school lunch).

And it's not just the Classical era with which they did this - they did it
also with other time periods and cultures. The most popular times, though,
seem to be the Medieval period of Northern Europe and early American History.

They attend a public school in the South. Maybe that makes a difference?

Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tri bune Plebis
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:27:11 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius [SMTP:v--------l@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:38 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of
> Tribune Plebis
>
> From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
> Salvete Quirites
>
> >> << The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that
> there
> is
> >> one other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>
> >
> >Flamen Dialis, I think.
>
> Also the Flamen Martialis et Flamen Quirinalis.
> >>
> >> Those positions are held for life, correct?
> >>
> Yes.
>
I guess if you want to take over the position of Flamen Dialis,
Flamen Martialis or Flamen Quirinalis, you're going to have to kill one of
them!
This is just SO Rex Nemorensis. Get out your golden sickles, all you
potential pontiffs!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:48:31 -0500 (EST)

It sounds like your mom had a lot better sense than the Nun did. What a
hell of a way to treat a kid!!!

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:57:21 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii


>
>Yes...but I like the term "Pagan". I like the identity. And since our
modern
>society is so bent on labels, why not use it.
>
There is at least one answer for that question, Dexippe, though you might
have asked it rhetorically.

Nova Roma aims to re-build the culture and society of the Roman Republic;
what 'modern society' likes to do is of little to no relevance to us,
especially in such areas as these.

Part of the beauty of this group is the opportunity that we have to strive
for something which improves upon what we have experienced as the norm.
This is a chance to break free of the false dichotomies, such as white vs.
black, communist vs. capitalist etc. etc., and the strife associated with
them, at least within the realm of dealing with each other within this
community.

If we can do away with the practice of innaccurate labeling, I see no reason
not to do so.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Yo queiro Nova Roma
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:31:18 -0500

In one of Lindsey Davis' novels, Marcus Didius Falco the private informer
for Vespasian, buys a pancake filled with spicy minced pork at an outdoor
stall,and eats it as he strolls along.

Hmmmm... this sounds real familiar. Could it be...a Gordita?

I had no idea that Taco Bell went back that far!


-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Classics wasTerminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:33:36 -0500 (EST)

As I said in my original message I think I got shortchanged in my public
education. My first twelve years of school were at a variety of places,
none of which were very big. My father was a Heavy-Duty Diesel Mechanic
and a very good one. He ended his life as a Maintenance Superintendant
at a very large Dam Project in Turkey, but the towns we lived in were
usually pretty small. There was a lot of geography of course, but
culture and religion was a little on the scarce side, and the teachers
usually were better trained as prison keepers than as sharers of
culture. It was an interesting childhood, bt not particulrly revealing
as far as the ancient world was concerned.

As my friend Ericius said, it was not until I got into the Navy, where
there was a lot of time to read, did I get into the classics.

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:03:56 -0500 (EST)

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Claudia wrote:

> From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
> Dexippus@-------- wrote:
> >
> > From: Dexippus@--------
> >
> > In a message dated 98-12-07 16:07:50 EST, you write:
> >
> > << The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that there is
> > one
> > other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>
>
> Flamen Dialis, I think.
>
> >
> > Those positions are held for life, correct?
> >
> I think this is a MAJOR area for change in the Constitution, although
> it's historically correct.

Of the positions that are patrician only, only the Rex and Regina Sacrorum
are in the constitution. The Flamen Dialis, the Flamen Martialis and the
Flamen Quirimalis and the Princeps Senatus are patrician by tradition and
custom though not yet enforceable by law. The Tribune of the Pleb and the
Curule Aedile are open to plebeians only and are written into the
Constitution. I don't see this as being an area in need of change though
some do not agree.

As for the lifetime appointments, unlike in ancient times, these positions
can be resigned, so we have kept true to the spirit of the ancients while
providing people an out you might say.


Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:19:57 -0500 (EST)

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Lucius wrote:

> From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
> Salvete Quirites
>
> >> << The Rex and Regina Sacrorum have to be patrician. I think that there
> is
> >> one other position like this but I cannot find it now. >>
> >
> >Flamen Dialis, I think.
>
> Also the Flamen Martialis et Flamen Quirinalis.
> >>
> >> Those positions are held for life, correct?
> >>
> Yes.
>
> >I think this is a MAJOR area for change in the Constitution, although
> >it's historically correct.
>
>
> ART.VI sec.3 of the Nova Roma Constitution states"...fifteen Pontifices, six
> of whom must be of the Patrician class, six of whom must be of the the
> Plebian class and three of whom may be of either class."
> Let us try to get the College Pontificium up and running before we
> think about changes.

While not fully staffed yet, it is "up and running," albeit slowly. :)


Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Curule Aedile was Patrician-only priesthoods
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:06:13 -0500

Salvete Deci Iuni et alii


>Of the positions that are patrician only, only the Rex and Regina Sacrorum
>are in the constitution. The Flamen Dialis, the Flamen Martialis and the
>Flamen Quirimalis and the Princeps Senatus are patrician by tradition and
>custom though not yet enforceable by law. The Tribune of the Pleb and the
>Curule Aedile are open to plebeians only and are written into the

I think that you meant "Plebeian Aedile" not "Curule Aedile" as the position
open only to Plebeians. The Curule Aedile can be elected from either class.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:15:36 -0800

Dexippus@-------- wrote:

> having my mom walk in. She sat down and laughed. I then laughed too. She
> said, "what made you pray to Zeus?". I said, "She (the nun) asked me to lead
> a prayer. I didn't think it mattered to what god." My mom just laughed and
> gave me a hug and kiss and we left. It was never mentioned after that.
>
> --Dexippus

You don't need me to tell you this...
That's a great Mom.

Ericius

Subject:	Re: Roman Paganism/ Religio Romana.... Whatever!! Here ye go, an answer!
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:56:28 -0600 (CST)

I too like the terminology of pagan as an identifier among the
larger "pagan" community and as a very self-descriptive frame of
religious thought. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Roman Paganism/ Religio Romana.... Whatever!! Here ye go, an a...
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:54:11 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 20:49:46 EST, you write:

<< So there!


Noct'a >>
You tell em sistah!!!!!!

Crys

Subject:	Fully e-capable again
From:	Anita Megas amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:29:26 -0600

Avete Omnes:

I am once again fully e-capable. Folks I've promised lyrics, articles
and such to will be able to receive such once again.

Valete - Venator

Subject:	Re: Classics wasTerminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:29:03 EST

In a message dated 12/9/98 3:01:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Nodigio@-------- writes:

<< They attend a public school in the South. Maybe that makes a difference?
>>
Nope I help at an SCA Demonstration for a 6th grade class in Northern Ohio. It
was about the Middle ages. I gave talk about being a woman of the Middle east
in the 8-9th century.
It must be a current curriculum. The week before they had a lively discussion
and role-playing about Rome and its people. I had a grand time!! I hope to
have fired a few imaganations!!

Sheika Aminah OOPS P.A.Olivia