Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:13:30 +1100 (EST)

> Here's your chance to educate. Most "pagans" don't know a damned
> thing about paganism. Not before Gerald Gardner anyway,and they
barely know
> who HE is. They know Celtic -- or think they do -- because all the
Llewellyn
> books talk about it and it's just so trendy and everyone knows you
can't be
> a witch unless you're Celtic (read: Irish -- they stop there.) They
might
> admit that, OK, Asatru exists. Somewhere. They have this friend who
thinks
> that Thor Rules. And some of them might have seen part of
"I,Claudius" while
> surfing towards the Fox network to watch "Charmed."
>
> But to them, pagan is heathen and heathen is Irish Celtic.
>
> Greek, Roman, Etruscan....the reaction is usually "duh". Although
> they might know about something called Sumerian because the
Necronomicon is,
> like, so cool.
>
> If I sound disgruntled it's because I just finished an interview in
> which the interviewer asked me if I believe in witches. I said no,
but I DO
> believe in the Medusa, which kind of put an end to a wasted hour of
clueless
> questions. She also asked me how I could practice paganism because
none of
> it was ever written down, so didn't we have to make it all up?
>

I have already posted an informative post on the message board of the
site I visit and I've had lots of positive replies.

Actually, all the people who visit the chat room know a lot more than
you would have them know.

I know Shamans, Druids, Celts, Asaru practitioners and many, many more!

They are not all Celts, they are also well rounded in thir knowledge


>Where's Homer, Virgil, Cicero, et al when you need 'em?
Well we have a Cicero, a Homer and a Vergil? I don't believe we have
yet! LOL!


> -- Flavia Claudia

Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Terminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:19:48 +1100 (EST)

> That is so very true that the majority of people don't have a clue
> in the world as to what Roman Paganism really is. Even in school I
> believe they just say something to the effect of well- "the Romans
just
> adopted Greek deities and called them by different names" or something
> to that effect and then add that animals were killed in sacrifices or
> some other obscure reference and that's about it. Unless someone
happens
> to take a more specialized college class on the ancient Romans and
> particularly religion or have enough interest in Roman civilization
and
> culture to read on their own, one would never really know what it's
all
> about.
> In time maybe a few pamphelets and even a book or two published by
Nova
> Roma would be in order. Just something that would express the feel of
> Religio Romana- the Lares, Penates, the Roman holidays and how they
were
> changed often by the Catholic church into different meanings while
> retaining pagan customs, the concepts of augury and other forms of
> divination, oracles, differences between public and private religious
> practice, wedding and funeral customs, oaths, rituals both ancient and
> reinvented, on Sybil, the role of priesthoods, etc. etc. etc.
> Granted such a project might not be underway for quite some time and
any
> such thing would require the full endorsement of the pontiffs. Our own
> websight is even rather vague about all this to the general public
and I
> can understand why so many people would find difficulty understanding
> the Religio Romana. It is also important to emphasize in any
> publications the universal adaptability of the Religio Romana and its
> ability to cross cultures in an evolutionary way especially in modern
> times and concerning private family rituals. The
> difference in private and public religion is a very important point
too.
> Though the public religion has nothing to do with let's say Wicca
there
> can be a great deal of adaptability for members of the Wiccan
community
> or any other religious community to mix and match in private religious
>worship.
I think, yes, there could be a lot more information out there.
And yes we should have more on the website.
Yes, there are a few Wiccans here, I also like to look at other paths,
mostly in interest but I do do Wiccan rituals alongside my Roman ones.



Just
> something to think about,
*Thinking*
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Noct'a

Subject:	Roman Paganism/ Religio Romana.... Whatever!! Here ye go, an answer!
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:44:01 +1100 (EST)

OK this is part of the Declaratio Religionis Romanae!

“We hold that a Roman Pagan may be defined as a person who actively
performs rites, rituals, and/or prayers to any or all of the gods and
goddesses of ancient Pagan Rome as the majority of their spiritual
involvement. We acknowledge also that individuals may at times work
with Roman deities without considering themselves as Roman Pagans.”


So there!


Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Classics wasTerminology ("Roman Pagan")
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:21:33 +0000

Nodigio@-------- wrote:


> Really? My children got Ancient history in the 6th and 8th grades - covering
> ancient Rome, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, etc. They covered not only the
> history, but the legends, myths, and religions of the area and era. The
> students were encouraged to do creative research, and to dress the part for
> reports. In the 9th, 10th, and 11th grades, my daughter took Latin, and the
> teacher taught not just the language but the culture and religions of the
> countries which used Latin. They've read several of the plays of the era, and
> know some of the architectural styles, and even had a day at school where they
> shared the foods eaten then (the school cafeteria prepared it and served it as
> a normal school lunch).
>
> And it's not just the Classical era with which they did this - they did it
> also with other time periods and cultures. The most popular times, though,
> seem to be the Medieval period of Northern Europe and early American History.
>
> They attend a public school in the South. Maybe that makes a difference?

They sound SOO lucky! I send my children to a public school in a fairly
toney suburb of the supposed "Athens Of The North", Boston....and they
are basically growing up without the benefit of an education! Today, I
asked my daughter if she remembered the name of the author of the book
she is reading for class.....her answer? "We don't need to know that, we
just need to know the book"......GRRRR!

How I am praying she gets in to Exeter where Greek Philosophy counts as
a religion credit!

Best, Pythia

Subject:	Re: Curule Aedile was Patrician-only priesthoods
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:41:37 -0500 (EST)

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, RMerullo wrote:

> From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
> Salvete Deci Iuni et alii
>
>
> >Of the positions that are patrician only, only the Rex and Regina Sacrorum
> >are in the constitution. The Flamen Dialis, the Flamen Martialis and the
> >Flamen Quirimalis and the Princeps Senatus are patrician by tradition and
> >custom though not yet enforceable by law. The Tribune of the Pleb and the
> >Curule Aedile are open to plebeians only and are written into the
>
> I think that you meant "Plebeian Aedile" not "Curule Aedile" as the position
> open only to Plebeians. The Curule Aedile can be elected from either class.

Yes, you're right, thanks. A hectic week and only able to scan messages
quickly unfortunately, thus the oversight.

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Fully e-capable again
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:06:14 -0500 (EST)

Welcome back my friend! Things were not the same without you!!!
Well----------------yeah maybe they were, but they wweren't as much
fun!!!!!! Glad to see you on the link again.

M. Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:56:03 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 15:33:04 EST, you write:

<< It sounds like your mom had a lot better sense than the Nun did. What a
hell of a way to treat a kid!!! >>

Yeah...my mom and dad are catholic but not devout. They go to church for
weddings and funerals and on occasion to light a candle for good luck. Going
through CCD was all just for the motions for me. My parents did it because
"well...you have to".

--Dexippus
<<ah those old-world italians and their crazy ways!>>

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tribune Plebis
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:52:22 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 13:52:55 EST, you write:

<< Let us try to get the College Pontificium up and running before we
think about changes. >>

I concur whole heartedly.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tri bune Pl...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:53:05 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 14:45:53 EST, you write:

<< This is just SO Rex Nemorensis. Get out your golden sickles, all you
potential pontiffs! >>


Oh golen sickle! I thought you said golden pickle! Damn!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:58:34 EST

In a message dated 98-12-09 15:41:09 EST, you write:

<< Nova Roma aims to re-build the culture and society of the Roman Republic;
what 'modern society' likes to do is of little to no relevance to us,
especially in such areas as these. >>


Yes, but we are Nova Roma. I don't think we can escape all of modern
socieities norms. Hell...they didn't have computers in ancient Rome either!
: )

The term "Pagan" identifies who we are. Just as "Christian", "Muslim", "Jew",
"Gay", whatever else...identifies a person. And while I agree that labels
should matter nothing, we (society) tends to rely on them.


--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: burn the heretic
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:05:36 EST

In a message dated 98-12-10 00:30:58 EST, you write:

<< You don't need me to tell you this...
That's a great Mom. >>

Yeah! Mom's cool! I'm now the daughter she never had...well, the second
daughter she never had, I have a sister! : )

--Dexippus
<<Loves His Mom!>>

Subject:	Re: Vacation time (yippee!)
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:18:18 -0800

Salve, Aprica.

Enjoy your well earned holiday. The best to you and yours for
Saturnalia (Winterfest, etc.) and for the New Year. Thank you
for all that you have done for all of us.

Bene vale.

C. Aelius Ericius

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:20:29 EST

>The term "Pagan" identifies who we are. Just as "Christian", "Muslim",
>"Jew",
>"Gay", whatever else...identifies a person. And while I agree that labels
>should matter nothing, we (society) tends to rely on them.
>
>
>--Dexippus

That's part of the problem -- "pagan" DOESN'T identify who we are. It
lumps us together with all sorts of vastly different groups who have in
common ONLY that they are not Christian. "Roman" identifies who we are --
"pagan" only identifies who we AREN'T.


L. Sergius Aust.



cum ballistae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti ballistas habebunt.

(When ballistas are outlawed, only outlaws will have ballistas.)

Subject:	Re: Classics wasTerminology ("Roman Pagan") my view
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:40:53 EST

In a message dated 12/9/98 4:25:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

<< My father was a Heavy-Duty Diesel Mechanic
and a very good one. He ended his life as a Maintenance Superintendant
at a very large Dam Project in Turkey, >>
Hmm my father was a bricklayer for Harvester. He served in W.W.II and had
hopes of being a History teacher or at least a professor. The war changed that
but it gave him a good understanding of the greater mechanics of life. He was
unable to go to school but he gave to my brothers and I the zest to learn.
My parent knew that they may not able to give us a college education so they
made sure we got the most of our public education. Yes, public schools. As a
family they were involved in what we did. WE watched educational program
together and they made sure we learned from the simplest of car trips.
the biggest thing is that too many parent leave education to just the
classroom!
My late father and I built catapults together and planted gardens, my late
mother helped me find ricotta cheese (no mean feat in the 70's) to make sacred
cakes and Roman green beans for Latin class in high school.
It is however never too late to educate your selves, you can make up for the
lost time a bit.avale yourself to the resources around you already.


PA Olivia
who is missing her parents this year,

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:19:58 -0500 (EST)

I think that Dexhas a good point. While modern labels shoud not mean
anything to us, they really do, if we choose to begin to educate the
general public around us. We have mentioned several places on the
onelist that we (Nova Roma) should begin to try to be more involved with
the world outside Nova Roma, and begin an education program for the
"other worlders". We have made a begining with Crys' Roman Chilren Web
Page and Venator's proposed work with wine, recipes, and all is sure to
be interesting to outsiders as well.

So, if you would educate someone, in the adult world, you should have
some idea about what his / her words or terms mean to them, before you
can correct the thought in their mind. I think, at least o the basis of
my experience, that you may have a task set for you in edicating the
great American public, not only because they may have no idea, what you
are doing in your religious preferences, but also because these
religions that we discuss and live every day are religions of history
only to most people. I am a new member as you all know, and I came into
this micronation determined to be as penminded as possible because I
knew it would be different, and it really was. It took me a little
while to see that your various religious views were really serious, not
because of you, but because of me and my pre-established ideas.

Now don't get upset with my words, as they are only revealing what a
person entering your world for the first time perceived even though he
was as prepared as he could be. I do not doubt for one second your
collective sincereity, and I can see from some of the stories you have
told how your beliefs could and did evolve. My reason for entering in
to the discussion was simply to give you an idea of some of the obstacle
that could stand in your way in order to effectively begin to enlighten
the public. When most people can' t tell a Confederate Soldier (1863)
from a British Highland Officer (1776) you have your work cut out!

Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician-only priesthoods was The position of Tri bune Pl...
From:	Anita Megas amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:27:37 -0600

Heilsa Allir et Salvete Omnes!

"Golden Sickles!?" When did this become the Druidic List!? >(({;-{)

Vertu Saell and Valete - Venator

> << This is just SO Rex Nemorensis. Get out your golden sickles, all you
> potential pontiffs! >>

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:51:23 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/10/98 9:41:57 PM EST, LSergAust@-------- writes:

<< That's part of the problem -- "pagan" DOESN'T identify who we are. It
lumps us together with all sorts of vastly different groups who have in
common ONLY that they are not Christian. "Roman" identifies who we are --
"pagan" only identifies who we AREN'T. >>

But "Roman Pagan" does identify us as a unique group. Yes..."Pagan" is an
umbrella term. But so is "Christian" (are you Catholic, Protestant, Born-
Again, etc.).

--Dexippus