Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:46:47 +0000

Mia Soderquist wrote:
>
> From: Mia Soderquist tuozine@--------
>
> It may be a little tacky, but there's not a bit of wood in our tree...
> It's all plastic and metal.

I am a great fan of artificial trees. The idea of putting an 7 foot pile
of kindling in your living room, just ready and waiting for a sray
spark....strikes me as a baaaaaad idea. Also, its a needless death of
the tree's nymph, with no justifyable reason, like warmth ot shelter, or
the need for space to grow food.

Claudia will be able to report on how nice it looks after she sees it
this weekend!;-)

Best, Pythia

Subject:	Re: Terminology
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:22:59 GMT

Salvete Omnes,

As to what we can call the Religio, I suppose Romano works...
Oh wait, that's a kind of cheese. *wink*

Personally, I do not think the label is very important. E Pluribus Unum
applies to NovaRoma as much as it does to the united States, except in
our case it is from many individuals. Remember that.

May Juno Lucina smile upon you all,

L. Iunia Cypria

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:48:31 GMT

Salvete Omnes,
While I believe that L. Marconius Romanus is as much entitled to his
opinion as anyone, I don't believe that that kind of heavy-handed (so
deemed because of the huge type-face, which from my online days denotes
shouting) moralising belongs on a mailing list. Now, maybe if he hadn't
shouted it me like a fire and brimstone preacher, I wouldn't feel this
way, but he did, and my own initial reaction was to fire back something
unpleasant, but I won't. You may dislike the philosophy of hedonism, but
not everyone views it as you do, and they also are entitled to their
opinions. Remember that. If you wish for a more ascetic approach to
life, by all means, go to with my blessings (or without), but as one who
spent a long time with Aphrodite as her tutelary deity since she drew me
so powerfully, I will not join you in your embrace of it.

L. Iunia Cypria

----Original Message Follows----

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:55:37 GMT

----Original Message Follows----

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:26:56 GMT

Salvete Omnes,

As a deviant I suppose I should find out if we want some kind of
separation of us unsuitable and unlean ones so we don't offend his
righteousness with our stench (too much sex with my husband, sorry).

Seriously, if I have to read much more of his prattle, I'm going to be
ill. Quit preaching and deciding behavior standards for everyone.

My Juno Lucina smile upon you, may Venus bring you joy, and may Diana
always light your way...

Lucina Iunia Cypria

Curule Aedile



----Original Message Follows----

Subject:	Hedonism
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 00:18:25 EST

Perhaps L. Marconius Romanus doesn't understand the philosophical term of
hedonism. Education rather than castigation is the route, after much soul
searching, I have chosen to take. Although I must admit, my initial reaction
was to blast back - one reason why it took me so long to respond.

To that end:

Hedonism is the philosophical belief that pleasure and happiness comprise the
highest good. Nowhere in that philosophical statement does it imply that such
pleasure and happiness must be selfish or derived from the pain, enslavement
or to detriment of any other person. There are many valid paths to hedonism.
A philanthropist may be perceived ultimately as a hedonist, for do they not
bring pleasure and happiness to others? Any volunteer may be perceived as a
hedonist, for their ultimate goal is to provide pleasure and happiness to the
people who benefit from their volunteerism. Many people feel pleasure and
happiness when they bring pleasure and happiness to others. And no one can
deny the moments of pure indulgence - a scoop of handmade French Vanilla
icecream topped with Godiva's chocolate sauce and a sprinkling of toasted
hazelnuts - or a lovely weekend at the spa - but they are made all the sweeter
by their rarity and the effort it takes to achieve them. Hedonism, like any
other philosophical system, is a goal, not an end.

Of course, as with any philosophical system, there are extremists. The Stoic
who denies all pain and emotion. The Epicurean who tries to make everything
sound fortuitous. The Sophist who can only argue speciously instead of
soundly. The Skeptic who believes nothing. The Cynic who believes
selfishness is the only motivator. And so forth.

It is very wrong to try to force ALL followers or believers of a philosophical
system into the extremist mold.

I must admit I am very much in the Omnisian philosophy - a little bit of
everything: Cynic, Epicurean, Stoic, Skeptic, Hedonist, etc.

By his posting, I feel L Marconius Romanus is 1) mistaken in what Hedonism
truly comprises, 2) a staunch Cynic, and worst of all - 3) an intolerant
Censor. I hope I am misreading the post, but several readings of it have not
managed to change my mind. I await further posts from him to know if this was
merely a "knee jerk" reaction, or if it is truly his feeling on the matter.
If the latter, I do pay homage to the Goddess Ignora through Her chosen vessel
- the delete key.

Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:59:37 -0600 (CST)

I was going to stay pretty much out of this discussion on hedonism
but after that post from Lucius Marconius I thought I should say
something.
I just cannot understand why anyone should feel they have the right to
inflict their own personal code of behavior upon everyone else.
Definitions of hedonism aside what is being objected to is I guess the
concept of casual sex for pleasure. Unless you were inproperly
propositioned by someone here I believe it was uncalled for to act as
judge and juror as to how people live their private lives.
There are some very good people in the world who just happen to be
polyamorous, or into what the mainstream might consider unusual sex
practices or whatever the case may be. To each their own- please in the
future don't start characterising people based on misinformed personal
prejudices. I understand that you probably meant well when you posted it
but please think about this openly to see why others have objected to
your post. -- You were directly insulting to one degree or another a
certain segment of our citizentry on a personal level.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Morality reading was Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:14:51 -0500

Salve Merulle,
I just did a quick search on a few subjects and here are some titles to
consider when reading up on Roman morality and sexuality:

Private morality in Greece and Rome : some historical aspects / by W. den Boer

Municipal virtues in the Roman Empire : the evidence of Italian honorary
inscriptions / Elizabeth Forbis

Private lives, imperial virtues : the frieze of the Forum Transitorium in
Rome / Eve D'Ambra

The politics of immorality in ancient Rome / Catharine Edwards.

Sexual life in ancient Rome / by Otto Kiefer

The moral and political tradition of Rome

Sex or symbol : erotic images of Greece and Rome / Catherine Johns

Roman sexualities / edited by Judith P. Hallett and Marilyn B. Skinner

Porneia : on desire and the body in antiquity / Aline Rousselle
-----------

For Roman festivals read:

Ovid's "Fasti"

Ovid's elegiac festivals : studies in the Fasti / John F. Miller

Festivals and ceremonies of the Roman Republic / H.H. Scullard

Ancient magic and ritual power / edited by Marvin Meyer and Paul Mirecki

Magic in the ancient world / Fritz Graf

Literature and religion at Rome : cultures, contexts, and beliefs / Denis
Feeney

Temples, religion and politics in the Roman Republic / by Eric M. Orlin.

"Religious life of ancient Rome; a study in the development of religious
consciousness, from the foundation of the city until the death of Gregory
the Great," by Jesse Benedict Carter

"Roman festivals of the period of the Republic, an introduction to the
study of the religion of the
Romans" William Warde Fowler (a key historian of antiquity)
----------------------------

Well, anyway. I hope this is helpful.

Vale,
Orbianna





At 12:53 16/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
>Salvete Diana et alii
>Could you perhaps post a book title or two where I and others could read
>about lives of common Romans, including their morality? Can you recommend
>anything in the Macellum in this regard?
>
>Valete
>
>Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Re: sick puppy
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:19:00 -0500

Canis aeger?

Canem aegrum
Cane aegro
etc....

At 20:51 17/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Claud----------------oon@--------
>
>Someone on the Horror Writers' List posted this question. We're much
>better equipped than those guys to answer this. Anyone have a
>translation? All I can think of is "canis" something or other...
>
>>
>> What would be the Latin for "sick puppy?" I believe that several people on
>> the list have some Latin, so I thought I'd ask here.
>
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:21:49 -0500

At 03:55 18/12/98 GMT, you wrote:
>From: "Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
>> Salvete!
>>
>> The acting out or the living of a 'pure' hedonistic lifestyle is
>not prudent,
>>and in the long run is very detrimental to the social and spiritual
>morals that
>>our' New Rome' needs to have in order for it to thrive as a living an
>viable
>>reality. When one's personal needs mainly revolve around his/her own
>fetishes
>>without the desire and/or the want for restraint(s) -- than this person
>would add
>>little to the overall community and could rightly be labeled as being
>>self-centered and usually amoral. Greed did not make the Romans great;
>family
>>values and the sense of a strong community were the cement that held
>Rome
>>together-- not the hedonist! Maybe one of the reasons the Roman Empire
>fell were
>>that the Gods lost favor with their hedonistic practices and they
>(Gods) were
>>disheartened by the individuals' attempt to pervert traditions.
>>
>>Valete
>>
>>Lucius Marconius Romanus
All things in moderation said the Great Wayfinder.


Diana T. Hanley Bergman
proserpina@--------
orbianna@--------
----------------------------
Don't you know of tormented souls? They need dreams and action and the
purest of passion. And so we throw ourselves into fancies and madness. -
Flaubert

Linguam compescere virtus non est minima. -Anonymous

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:24:36 -0500

Salvete,
And if I recall correctly, Rome fell *after* it become Christian Rome.
Surely that is an insult to the gods.

Valete!
Orbianna

At 03:55 18/12/98 GMT, you wrote:
>From: "Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
>If the gods ever lost favor, it was because the Romans stopped making
>the appropriate offerings. I don't think the gods ever lost favor -- I
>think Rome lost the gods, not vice versa.
>
>Again, you mischaracterize hedonism.
>
>--Patrick


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:28:14 -0500

Salve Cypria,
Minerva has certainly bestowed these wise words unto us via your email.
Thank you!



At 04:26 18/12/98 GMT, you wrote:
>From: "Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
>
>Salvete Omnes,
>
>As a deviant I suppose I should find out if we want some kind of
>separation of us unsuitable and unlean ones so we don't offend his
>righteousness with our stench (too much sex with my husband, sorry).
>
>Seriously, if I have to read much more of his prattle, I'm going to be
>ill. Quit preaching and deciding behavior standards for everyone.
>
>My Juno Lucina smile upon you, may Venus bring you joy, and may Diana
>always light your way...
>
>Lucina Iunia Cypria
>
>Curule Aedile
>
>

Diana T. Hanley Bergman
proserpina@--------
orbianna@--------
----------------------------
Don't you know of tormented souls? They need dreams and action and the
purest of passion. And so we throw ourselves into fancies and madness. -
Flaubert

Linguam compescere virtus non est minima. -Anonymous

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:34:28 -0500

Salvete omnes et Domitiane,
I must admit that I am rather enjoying your wonderfully intellectual and
down-to-earth responses to this puritanical pagan right-winger. Yay, Nova
Roma! (it's a shame the Republic doesn't have cheerleaders. What do you
say, Dex? Care to volunteer?)

Valete,
Orbianna

At 01:59 18/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
>
> I was going to stay pretty much out of this discussion on hedonism
>but after that post from Lucius Marconius I thought I should say
>something.
>I just cannot understand why anyone should feel they have the right to
>inflict their own personal code of behavior upon everyone else.
>Definitions of hedonism aside what is being objected to is I guess the
>concept of casual sex for pleasure. Unless you were inproperly
>propositioned by someone here I believe it was uncalled for to act as
>judge and juror as to how people live their private lives.
>There are some very good people in the world who just happen to be
>polyamorous, or into what the mainstream might consider unusual sex
>practices or whatever the case may be. To each their own- please in the
>future don't start characterising people based on misinformed personal
>prejudices. I understand that you probably meant well when you posted it
>but please think about this openly to see why others have objected to
>your post. -- You were directly insulting to one degree or another a
>certain segment of our citizentry on a personal level.

> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Diana T. Hanley Bergman
proserpina@--------
orbianna@--------
----------------------------
Don't you know of tormented souls? They need dreams and action and the
purest of passion. And so we throw ourselves into fancies and madness. -
Flaubert

Linguam compescere virtus non est minima. -Anonymous

Subject:	Friday
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:49:21 -0500

Salvete omnes!
<laugh> It's 4:30 in the morning, and I think that I've got a posting rate
to this list equivalent of Dex's. I just thought it was rather humorous to
see all those posts at the same time. Please forgive my deleriously tired
rambling. I napped all evening (from about 7pm on) until a received a phone
call around midnight from a friend in California. I was wired after that,
and now I can't sleep.
Anyway! Happy Friday to each and every one of you! May Lovely Venus bestow
the gift of her favor upon you this evening, on her day. And for those of
you who are not aware that tonight is the New Moon, perhaps you might keep
in mind that today is a day of great inner-reflection. As with all Dark
Moons, it is also a find time for divination and new beginnings.
Tonight I'll be hosting a small gathering to celebrate this lunar phase.
If any of you are in the Philadelphia area you are welcome to stop by.
<ponders for a moment> Is there anyone on this list that *does* live near
the Philadelphia area? I'm just curious now.
Well, TVIF (Thank Venus It's Friday) to all of you, and if you get a
moment, think of Proserpina during this dark time as she reigns Despoina in
the Underworld.

I've rambled enough. Perhaps a few hours of sleep...

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Plebeian Aedile, Oath of Office, Saturnalia, Dies Dei Solis Invicti and other matters of interest to citizens.
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:45:12 -0000

Salvete omnes!

Today I'm going on holidays until the beginning of January. I want to apologize for I won't be able to make my Oath of Office of Plebeian Aedile on the 1st January.
Before departing, I also wanted to wish you all a merry Saturnalia and Dies Dei Mithrae Solis Invicti! =)))

Valete omnes!

(I'll be able to write a few emails during Saturnalia =))

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Mia Soderquist tuozine@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:09:46 -0800 (PST)

---M--------2Two@-------- wrote:
>
> I think all your ideas are cool!! We have no tree, wanna-be or
other (I had
> visions of someone, who shall remain Terry, pulling it down and/or
apart

LOL! Our tree is currently inside one of those collapsable play-yard
fences, and is only decorated from 3 feet up, as Liam, age 1.5 years,
undecorated the bottom on the first day it was up. :)

> before my very eyes), and I so wanted to bake this year, but I
cannot stand
> for more than 5 minutes anymore, so I have <oh the shame!!!> gone
and bought a
> sugar cookie mix and frosting and red and green sprinklies and I
will bake a

I keep thinking that I want to do some baking, but it keeps getting
put off and put off-- but my husband took Tuesday off, so we can bake
then, maybe-- a bunch of sun shaped cookies, and maybe a Yule log. :)


> few cookies every day. I, too am intimidated by roll cakes. If ya
wind up
> with Yule mud, tell everyone you got even closer to the earth and
made the
> gunk found UNDER the log (so THERE!!!)!!!

:) I think I am going to go call my mom and try the coffee can method.
That is so brilliant, I wish I had thought of it myself. I may still
go ahead and make some mud with chocolate pudding and crushed oreos.
It's tasty, and this pregnancy thing has me craving chocolate and meat
(not together!)...

Holidays are tasty. I love it. Going to comb the web today for
recipes for lamb, my husband's favorite meat for celebration.

<snip>

HAPPY SATURNALIA!!!
I used that as the closing on a note I wrote to my daughter's teacher
this morning. I figure it will either confuse or amuse the teacher. :)

Mia

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:34:26 EST

In a message dated 98-12-18 09:10:46 EST, you write:

<< :) I think I am going to go call my mom and try the coffee can method.
That is so brilliant, I wish I had thought of it myself. >>

Zonora is BRILLIANT!!!!!!!! Just another wonderful CyberMater as far as I'm
concerned. <G>

Crys (trying to figger out why I can't get to sleep much before 3am :-( )

Subject:	Stones (was Hedonism)
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:06:05 -0600

Salvete Omnes;

If I may interject. I was not amused by the "Calvinist" post and have
been amused by the "Hedonist" posts. But, let us remember that because
Lucius Marconius may be, May Be, a Christian, we needn't cast a stone at
the entirety of that Religion for the opinions of one man. Lucius
Marius Fimbria and Submariner Audens spring to mind as two Christians
who are good Roman; Proud, Intelligent and Dutiful to their Concept of
Divinity.

I do believe that Rome fell due to the People and Senate turning away
from the Virtues, and thereby loosing the Favor of the Gods.
Christianity may have hastened it, but when a civilization allows itself
to become a welfare state living for entertainment (Pane et Circii) then
younger, stronger, more vigorous or treacherous peoples will out.
Individual Free Will associations will not affect the broader community
if some discretion is exercised.

We are all of us Roman, to a greater or lesser extent. We should strive
to practice the Virtues - Civic et Privatus - in our dealings with each
other.

Slaus et Fortuna Omnes, Valete - Venator

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:10:46 -0500

Salvete Quirites
Thank You Secunda Floria Zonara for the following, this was my
understanding of the philosophy as well. For Marcus Gladius Saevus, you
might try the Golden Mean, "Ne Quid Nimis" 'nothing to excess'. I normally
don't repost the entire original but this one is worth reading again, as are
many that I don't respond to.

Valete L Equitius

>Perhaps L. Marconius Romanus doesn't understand the philosophical term of
>hedonism. Education rather than castigation is the route, after much soul
>searching, I have chosen to take. Although I must admit, my initial
reaction
>was to blast back - one reason why it took me so long to respond.
>
>To that end:
>
>Hedonism is the philosophical belief that pleasure and happiness comprise
the
>highest good. Nowhere in that philosophical statement does it imply that
such
>pleasure and happiness must be selfish or derived from the pain,
enslavement
>or to detriment of any other person. There are many valid paths to
hedonism.
>A philanthropist may be perceived ultimately as a hedonist, for do they not
>bring pleasure and happiness to others? Any volunteer may be perceived as
a
>hedonist, for their ultimate goal is to provide pleasure and happiness to
the
>people who benefit from their volunteerism. Many people feel pleasure and
>happiness when they bring pleasure and happiness to others. And no one can
>deny the moments of pure indulgence - a scoop of handmade French Vanilla
>icecream topped with Godiva's chocolate sauce and a sprinkling of toasted
>hazelnuts - or a lovely weekend at the spa - but they are made all the
sweeter
>by their rarity and the effort it takes to achieve them. Hedonism, like
any
>other philosophical system, is a goal, not an end.
>
>Of course, as with any philosophical system, there are extremists. The
Stoic
>who denies all pain and emotion. The Epicurean who tries to make
everything
>sound fortuitous. The Sophist who can only argue speciously instead of
>soundly. The Skeptic who believes nothing. The Cynic who believes
>selfishness is the only motivator. And so forth.
>
>It is very wrong to try to force ALL followers or believers of a
philosophical
>system into the extremist mold.
>
>I must admit I am very much in the Omnisian philosophy - a little bit of
>everything: Cynic, Epicurean, Stoic, Skeptic, Hedonist, etc.
>
>By his posting, I feel L Marconius Romanus is 1) mistaken in what Hedonism
>truly comprises, 2) a staunch Cynic, and worst of all - 3) an intolerant
>Censor. I hope I am misreading the post, but several readings of it have
not
>managed to change my mind. I await further posts from him to know if this
was
>merely a "knee jerk" reaction, or if it is truly his feeling on the matter.
>If the latter, I do pay homage to the Goddess Ignora through Her chosen
vessel
>- the delete key.


Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Cant we all get along was Hedonism
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:56:25 -0500

Salvete omnes


>down-to-earth responses to this puritanical pagan right-winger

I do not know Romanus, but I cringed when I saw this. I would have been
hurt for sure if anyone chose to start calling me names in public.

I have no desire to attack or defend anyone here, but I wonder whether we
really must continue in this direction.

I echo Dexippus quoting R. King "Can't we all just get along?"

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Morality reading was Hedonism
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:45:10 -0500

Salvete Orbianna et alii

Whoa! I never would have expected that so much had been written on these
subjects!

Have you read all of these titles? Which of them do you recommend most
highly?

Patricia Cassia, will it be possible to add any of these to the NR
bookstore? I want to be able to give NR its cut when I acquire one or two
in the near future...

I myself have read one book that is not entirely unrelated to the topic;
I'll try to find it tonight and post its title, author etc.

Does anyone have a decent bookcase that they can sell me for cheap money? I
fear that all these Roman-related books cluttering my living room floor are
going to cause marital tension at home....

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


>
>Salve Merulle,
> I just did a quick search on a few subjects and here are some titles to
>consider when reading up on Roman morality and sexuality:
>

Subject:	Elections
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:42:50 EST

Salvete Omnes!

I just wanted to congratulate the victors in this years magisterial election.
I am certain that you all will strive to serve our Republic well in MMDCCLII,
and that everyone, myself included, will support your efforts on our behalf.
Congratulations, and may our Republic continue to flourish in the coming year!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Founder and Citizen

Subject:	Being ignored by Marconius Romanus? :-(
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:14:06 EST

Lucius Marconius Romanus --

In reading all these posts, I am still awaiting your response. Mostly I am
pressing because I am still confused. I know I personally asked for your
definition of morality. I was not trying to attack, but was honestly curious.
Our fellow Romans have told me to ask if I don't understand and, as far as you
and your definition of moral and the other questions I asked, I don't
understand. So I ask again.

Thanks,

Crys (on the way to the Senior Center with Terry to spread good cheer and eat
cookies)

Subject:	Re: Moral and other definitions made useless after 1789 AD
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:33:26 -0000

Salvete!

I won't give a definition of moral, but will give a definition of freedom
that I expect every people to follow, at least towards me (otherwise don't
call me comrade, fellow or friend):

- Freedom is everything that does not interfere with the freedom of other
human being.

As such, it's obvious that Moral is to use freedom according to this
definition.

This was what the French Revolution taught us, and we must not forget that
Nova Roma is a nation built after that date. Anything different can only be
regarded as 'Ancien Regime'.

I just wanted to remind all citizens that Nova Roma does not descriminate:
-Race
- Sex
- Sexuality
- Political, Religious or Philosophical thought

Please, remind this when talking about 'Moral'.

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)



-----Original Message-----
From: M--------2Two@-------- M--------2Two@--------
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 5:16 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Being ignored by Marconius Romanus? :-(


>From: M--------2Two@--------
>
>Lucius Marconius Romanus --
>
>In reading all these posts, I am still awaiting your response. Mostly I am
>pressing because I am still confused. I know I personally asked for your
>definition of morality. I was not trying to attack, but was honestly
curious.
>Our fellow Romans have told me to ask if I don't understand and, as far as
you
>and your definition of moral and the other questions I asked, I don't
>understand. So I ask again.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Crys (on the way to the Senior Center with Terry to spread good cheer and
eat
>cookies)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: Friday
From:	Mia Soderquist tuozine@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:48:41 -0800 (PST)

---Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@-------- wrote:
<SNIPPAGE>
> Tonight I'll be hosting a small gathering to celebrate this lunar
phase.
> If any of you are in the Philadelphia area you are welcome to stop by.
> <ponders for a moment> Is there anyone on this list that *does* live
near
> the Philadelphia area? I'm just curious now.
> Well, TVIF (Thank Venus It's Friday) to all of you, and if you get a
> moment, think of Proserpina during this dark time as she reigns
Despoina in
> the Underworld.
>
> I've rambled enough. Perhaps a few hours of sleep...
>
> Valete,
> Orbianna

I am in Newark, Delaware... practically next door. :)
Happy Friday to you too!

Mia

Subject:	Fw: [novaroma] sick puppy
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:06:51 -0500

>
>>Someone on the Horror Writers' List posted this question. We're much
>>better equipped than those guys to answer this. Anyone have a
>>translation? All I can think of is "canis" something or other...
>>>
>>> What would be the Latin for "sick puppy?" I believe that several people
>on
>>> the list have some Latin, so I thought I'd ask here.
>
>
>Salvete,
>
> Aeger canis, sick dog; Aeger canillus, sick (little)dog.
>
>I was able to find the Diminutive (which I had forgotten) in, A Students
>Latin Grammar. A wonderful book for latin study/refresher ISBN
0-521-38587-3
>
>Valete, L Equitius
>
Sorry if this is a repost but I didn't see it on the list.

Subject:	Re: Moral and other definitions made useless after 1789 AD - capitalism obsolete since 1917
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:56:50 -0500

Salvete Antoni Grylle et alii




>From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
>I won't give a definition of moral, but will give a definition of freedom
>that I expect every people to follow, at least towards me (otherwise don't
>call me comrade, fellow or friend):
>
>- Freedom is everything that does not interfere with the freedom of other
>human being.

I agree not to tread on you, Esteemed Praetor and Aedile-Elect; just as I
expect neither you nor anyone else here to do so unto me.
>
>This was what the French Revolution taught us, and we must not forget that
>Nova Roma is a nation built after that date. Anything different can only be
>regarded as 'Ancien Regime'.

While I do not dispute the impact of the French Revolution on history, I ask
that you excuse me if I do not pay too much attention to it in my
examination of history for bases for my own value system. One reason that I
am here is my desire to get 'back to the basics', that is, to incorporate as
much of the life of Republican Rome into my own life as possible. To
examine history thusly means to emphasize events long pre-dating the French
Revolution.

On a similar note, I intend to continue my life in shamelessly capitalistic
pursuits, making money to support myself and my family, despite the
Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 :).
>
>I just wanted to remind all citizens that Nova Roma does not descriminate:
>-Race
>- Sex
>- Sexuality
>- Political, Religious or Philosophical thought
>
I agree and disagree. If you are talking about NR's policy on accepting
citizens, I think that the above is true. If you mean this as a factual
statement describing NR citizens' statements to each other in our forum, I
have to say that I cannot agree that it is valid (although we can strive to
make it so). Also, the word 'discriminate', although it contemporarily
carries strong negative connotations, can be understood as synonymous with
'differentiate'; NR certainly does differentiate in a very biased way: we
esteem all things Roman (especially Religio Romana and, to a lesser extent
perhaps, classical philosophies) most highly, above anything that modernity
has developed.

>Valete!
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Servilia's Birthday
From:	"The Salama family" ariellenewf@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:18:54 -0330

Salve,
I have been a member of Nova Roma for a couple of months and some of you
know me from the taverna, but I have never written to the mailing list
before. Anyway, since someone sent a message about birthdays the other, I
thought I'd add : My 16th birthday is on Monday, December 21, and I thought
that would be a good subject for my first post. Anyway, have a nice
weekend everyone.

Vale,
Julia Servilia Tullia

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday - more Latin practice
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:02:38 -0500

Salvete Servilia et alii

Felicem diem natalem Servilia

And welcome!

Now, Luce Equiti, Marce Muci, and anyone else Latinate, please show me my
errors.


Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Moral and other junk/DONE
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:25:36 EST

Graecus and company --


First of all I wasn't talking to you and you know it. Second of all since I
am apparently not allowed the freedom to ask questions, nor given the respect
to have them answered I will refrain from asking them. NOT a problem!

I am so glad there is nothing but freedom in NR!

BTW, to anyone interested, our trip to the senior center went great! I will
not clog this great list with details. If you want to know how it went or
anything else about us, just email me privately.


Crys (sick and tired and DONE)

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday - more Latin practice
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:57:36 -0500 (EST)

My Dear Gaius Marius Merrullus;

Your already cosiderable skill with latin so far exceeds my own, that in
your presence I sit as a student with a slate, rather than a journeyman
dueling with a Master.

Your lessons are most welcome my friend, but as an exercise to point out
the Master's errors I am out of my depth. I think your words have
something to do with Servilla's Birthday, but only because of the
title!! LOL, (-: (-:

Could you break your words down for me?

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:35:38 -0500

At 09:40 19/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Salvete! Yes! The Western part of the empire had fallen but not on
>account of christianity. And, don't forget about the legacy of the Eastern
>Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, that not only survived but flourished ,
>under Christianity, for well over 1000 years. Valete
>Lucius Marconius Romanus
>
<laugh> What kind of classically educated person would I be if I actually
believed that? Thanks for being so kind in your response however. My point
was that if someone can make the statement that Rome fell because we
dishonored our Gods, then I could make an equally ridiculous statement.
Thank you for the informative response.

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Re: Cant we all get along was Hedonism
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:39:09 -0500

At 10:56 18/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
>Salvete omnes
>
>
>>down-to-earth responses to this puritanical pagan right-winger
>
>I do not know Romanus, but I cringed when I saw this. I would have been
>hurt for sure if anyone chose to start calling me names in public.
>
>I have no desire to attack or defend anyone here, but I wonder whether we
>really must continue in this direction.
>
>I echo Dexippus quoting R. King "Can't we all just get along?"
>
>Valete
>
>Gaius Marius Merullus

Salve Merullus.
I did no hurtful name-calling. I know many people who are proud to be
called right-wing. They live for it. And well Puritanical... I was a
fundamentalist once, and I, again, would have been happy to have been
called such, for it showed my devotion to my savior. Things are a bit
different with me now, obviously, and I most certainly am not offended when
I'm called a nutty pagan liberal.

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Christianos ad leonem!" -Tertullian

Subject:	Re: Moral and other junk/DONE
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:53:01 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 3:36:48 PM Central Standard Time,
M--------2Two@-------- writes:

> Graecus and company --
>
>
> First of all I wasn't talking to you and you know it. Second of all since
I
> am apparently not allowed the freedom to ask questions, nor given the
> respect
> to have them answered I will refrain from asking them.


Did I miss something?????????? I haven't deleted anything yet, let me go
back. Crys, darling, don't let a few MEN get you down - I LIKE hearing about
you and Terry. It makes Nova Roma seem more a community and less a snippy
scholastic journal. Nova Roma IS a community, right? A micronation with
parents, kids, teens, personality clashes and laws that we all break
sometimes, but try to adhere to as best as possible.

As for the question I think you're talking about - it can only from from the
person you are querying - L. M. Romanus, yes?

Invoke Ignora, Dear, She's there for you!

Love Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:58:40 EST

In a message dated 12/17/98 3:30:45 PM EST, kingan@-------- writes:

<< I am a great fan of artificial trees. The idea of putting an 7 foot pile
of kindling in your living room, just ready and waiting for a sray
spark....strikes me as a baaaaaad idea. Also, its a needless death of
the tree's nymph, with no justifyable reason, like warmth ot shelter, or
the need for space to grow food. >>

Absolutely! My family always had artificial trees. It's all in the symbolism
and intent. In fact, the Romans never brought the trees into their home. The
Germans started that. Like I said in an earlier post...they look like corpses
tied to the roofs of cars. Oh the Holocaust of Trees!

--Dexippus
<<celebrating the 2nd Day of Saturnalia>>

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:03:17 -0800 (PST)

> Salve,
> I have been a member of Nova Roma for a couple of months and some
of you
> know me from the taverna, but I have never written to the mailing list
> before. Anyway, since someone sent a message about birthdays the
other, I
> thought I'd add : My 16th birthday is on Monday, December 21, and I
thought
> that would be a good subject for my first post. Anyway, have a nice
> weekend everyone.

Yes, I have met you in chat and I'm glad you have decided to put
yourself into our list!
You have added a lot to the Taverna and I hope to see lots more of you
:) (hint hint!)

Wow! Birthday on Yule!!
Cool!

Well happy birthday and happy Yule!
>
> Vale,
> Julia Servilia Tullia
>
Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Practices and Traditions
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:03:49 EST

In a message dated 12/17/98 8:23:13 PM EST, iuliacaesaria@-------- writes:

<< Oh I am on my way!
Stop the plane, I'm gettin on!

>
> --Dexippus >>
Where is it? >>

Noc'ta...I was going to hold in Rockefeller Center after the Yule Carol on
Sunday but the Mayor said "No". Damn that Giuliani!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:08:01 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/18/98 7:00:57 PM Centr--------t--------rd Time, Dexippus@--------
writes:

> Oh the Holocaust of Trees!
>

One of my favorite Yuletide Carols is "Kill a Tree for Christ". Although I am
of German descent, I do not bring trees into the house. I decorate the
exterior trees - it's more friendly to put our Solar and Fertility symbols on
the trees for our neighbors to view and appreciate. My neighbors LOVE me.

Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Prezzy for Dex!!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:11:23 EST

Thank you Sweetums! : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Claudia missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:12:05 -0500

Nodigio@-------- wrote:
> >
>
> One of my favorite Yuletide Carols is "Kill a Tree for Christ".

Okay, you know I'm not going to let THIS pass! Give us the lyrics!
Venator and I will be glad to sing (as the Unofficial Filkers of Nova
Roma.)

Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:18:51 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 4:27:55 AM EST, --------er--------@--------
writes:

<< Yay, Nova
Roma! (it's a shame the Republic doesn't have cheerleaders. What do you
say, Dex? Care to volunteer?)
>>

Oh Orbiana, my dear Sister...this came up before you blessed us with the
presence of your citizenship. I am already Cheerleader for Nova Roma!

NOVA ROMA RA RA RA
NOVA ROMA SHISH-BOOM-BAH
RA RA RA -- SHISH-BOOM-BAH
YEEEEEEEEAAAAA CEASAR!

--Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus

Subject:	Re: Friday
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:21:08 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 9:22:31 AM EST, --------er--------@--------
writes:

<< TVIF (Thank Venus It's Friday) >>


Oh I Love It! : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Hedonism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:22:30 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 9:38:21 AM EST, mdm8@-------- writes:

<< Yes! The Western part of the empire had fallen but not on account of
christianity. And, don't forget about the legacy of the Eastern Roman Empire,
Byzantine Empire, that not only survived but flourished , under Christianity,
for
well over 1000 years. >>


Ok...this was a heated debate not too long ago so let's just keep it
there...ok?

--Dexippus
<<going out to enjoy the 2nd Day of Saturnalia!...Disco Dancing at the
Colosseum -- a Night Club in Central New Jersey>>

Subject:	announcement
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:24:20 PST

Because those few messages I do read on the Nova Roma list interest me
not at all, in fact, make me sick to my stomach, and because I feel a
need to worship rather than found a nation right now, I am withdrawing
from the Nova Roma list for an indefinite period of time. I am *not*
giving up my citizenship, merely withdrawing from public life. Anyone
who wishes to reach me can do so through this address.

--M. Gladius Saevus

Subject:	Re: Prezzy for Dex!!
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:28:39 -0800 (PST)

>
> Thank you Sweetums! : )

Anytime :)


> --Dexippus
>

Noct'a
Enjoyed Sat.II and is now on Sat.III!

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:31:18 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 8:03:08 PM EST, iuliacaesaria@-------- writes:

<< Wow! Birthday on Yule!!
Cool! >>

Well...the Solstice actually falls on December 22 this year. It fluctuates
each year between December 21 and December 23 (same with the Summer Solstice
in June). So this year she missed it by a day...but close enough!

But I believe the Roman Goddess Angerona had a festival on December 21.
Classic Majors?....care to discuss?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:32:19 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/18/98 8:09:06 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

<< One of my favorite Yuletide Carols is "Kill a Tree for Christ". >>

Zonara,

Please forward me those lyrics! If not for the Yule Carol on Sunday for my
own curiosity!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Prezzy for Dex!!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:33:12 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 8:28:25 PM EST, iuliacaesaria@-------- writes:

<< Noct'a
Enjoyed Sat.II and is now on Sat.III! >>

Ah...yes..that time difference! : )

--Dexippus
<<Damn that Atlantic Ocean!>>

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:39:19 -0800 (PST)

> << Wow! Birthday on Yule!!
> Cool! >>
>
> Well...the Solstice actually falls on December 22 this year. It
fluctuates
> each year between December 21 and December 23 (same with the Summer
Solstice
> in June). So this year she missed it by a day...but close enough!

Ahh thank you amicus Mihi!
Must rearrange my calendar!

>
> But I believe the Roman Goddess Angerona had a festival on December
21.
> Classic Majors?....care to discuss?
>
> --Dexippus
Noct'a
Enjoying Sat.III

Subject:	Re: Prezzy for Dex!!
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:47:53 -0800 (PST)

>
> << Noct'a
> Enjoyed Sat.II and is now on Sat.III! >>
>
> Ah...yes..that time difference! : )

Yes well I get it earlier and, since I'm usually to be found in The
Taverna at late US times, I have LONG festivals!:)

> --Dexippus
> <<Damn that Atlantic Ocean!>>

Tis but a wee pudle :)

Hey Dex when are we gonna see you in The Taverna?
Not seen ye for a bit!

Subject:	Re: announcement
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:37:19 EST

Salve Saevus:

Does this mean you're stepping down as Praetor of the Upper-Midwest US
Provincia as well?

Vale,

Germanicus

Subject:	Re: Graecus!
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:32:26 -0600

Ave Noct'a!

As I said before, soon's we have a Curule Aedile, Consul or Senator who will
sponsor a site, kitchen and ingredients, I'll make the pudding, including a
wading pool of pistachio for Dex :{)

Vale - Venii

A. Iulia wrote:

> From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
> >
> > In a message dated 98-12-17 11:23:16 EST, you write:
> >
> > << Indeed it is quite right. I checked it again and my results for
> Plebeian
> > Aedile are not low at all. As such I will fill the office wilingly
> and will
> > work to institute the Games of Nova Roma. I have already some
> support and
> > people giving me good ideas, specially Q. Fabius Maximus.
> > >>
>
> Congrats Gryllus!
>
> >
> > Huzzah! Can't wait to see the games! Pudding Wrestling Lives!
>
> Oh yes!!!!
> Gryllus, all ye need is Venii, and some mad quirites! I qualify!! LOL
>
>
> > --Dexippus : )
> >
> Noct'a
> A mad pudding wrestler!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Lamb Recipe Was Re: [novaroma] Tree in the house/Yule/Saturnalia...
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:19:02 -0600

Salvete Omnes et Ave Mia;

Had to get in on this one.
Here's how my wife and I cook a 4 - 5 pound boneles lamb roast (we like the
shoulder cut).
Preheat the oven to 350F. Prepare a covered roasting pan by lightly oiling
it with olive oil.
Unwrap the lamb, reserving any juices. Pat it dry.
Grate 1 medium yellow onion, mix in 4 finely minced garlic cloves, 1/4 tsp
fine grind white pepper, 1/2 tsp coarse grind black pepper, 1/2 tsp fine
grind Hungarian paprika and 1/4 cup lemon juice.
Rub this into the meat, plus salt to taste. Place the meat into the roasting
pan and insert a roasting thermometer.
With the reserved meat juice, make up 1 cup of liquid with 1/4 cup lemon
juice and a sufficient quantity of white wine. Whisk in 1/2 tsp each garlic
and onion powders, 1/4 tsp each finely crushed dried oregano and bayleaf.
Peel and quarter 8 Russet potatoes (a 'crinkle' cutter works nicely) and
place them around the meat in the pan. Pour the 'meat-lemon' juice over the
potatoes.
Cover and place in the heated oven. Bake for 30 minutes, check meat
temperature and baste. Check every 15 minutes and baste the meat and
potatoes until all are at the desired doneness.
Let the meat rest 15 minutes before carving. Use the pan drippings as an
'au jus' for the meat and potatoes. Slice the meat thin, serve with the
potatoes, steamed spinach (dressed with garlic, lemon juice and olive oil),
fresh-baked bread with honey, applesauce (lightly spiced with cinnamon),
perhaps a tossed salad with black olives and Feta cheese (raspberry and
walnut vinagerette dressing). My wife and I like a nice Merlot or a white
Retsina with lamb.

Vale - Venator

Mia Soderquist wrote:

>From: Mia Soderquist tuozine@--------
>(big sip)Going to comb the web today for recipes for lamb, my husband's
favorite meat >for celebration.

Subject:	Re: Servilia's Birthday - more Latin practice
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:49:50 -0500

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii


Could you break your words down for me?

Marcus Audens

I would be happy to do that:

Felicem (happy) Diem (day) Natalem (birth, adjective)

I put all the words in the accusative case to indicate the idea of wanting
to give them, so to speak, to Servilia.

What I do not know is whether Romans would have said this to one another; I
am hoping for some insight into this from Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus or
other cives with Latin knowledge.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Efharisto Megas
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:56:40 -0500

Salvete omnes

My Latin is ok but Greek is certainly not my strength. Is "Efharisto Megas"
Greek?

Does anyone know what it means?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Moral and other definitions made useless after 1789 AD
From:	Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:32:29 -0800

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
>
> Salvete!
>
> I won't give a definition of moral, but will give a definition of freedom
> that I expect every people to follow, at least towards me (otherwise don't
> call me comrade, fellow or friend):
>
> - Freedom is everything that does not interfere with the freedom of other
> human being.

Then there, either, there is no freedom or the only freedom is in complete
entropy, death. All acts interfere with the ability to act, the freedom of
others. You first paragraph interferes with my freedom to call you a comrade,
fellow or friend. I would like to be such to all good people. If nothing else
I would think that all we of Nova Roma are "comrades" in several senses of the
word. I know from living several of those definitions that "comrades" do not
have to be friends. i am not sure what sense you mean "fellow" in, so I'll let
it coast except to say that I think of it as being almost synonymous with
"comrade". "Friend" has many degrees of definition, there are many degrees of
friendship. I tend to use it in a miserly way, yet I have made a number of
friends of many different origins and backgrounds here in Nova Roma.

> As such, it's obvious that Moral is to use freedom according to this
> definition.

Obviously, this is not obvious.

> This was what the French Revolution taught us, and we must not forget that
> Nova Roma is a nation built after that date. Anything different can only be
> regarded as 'Ancien Regime'.

By the definition of "Moral" that is put forward above, the French Revolution
was immoral to the extreme.

> I just wanted to remind all citizens that Nova Roma does not descriminate:
> -Race
> - Sex
> - Sexuality
> - Political, Religious or Philosophical thought

"All" Nova Romans seem to remember this. Our problem, Graecus (who it would be
nice to be able to call "friend" and "comrade") is that individuals forget small
parts of that from time to time.

> Please, remind this when talking about 'Moral'.
>
> Valete!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> (Praetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

Be well, and be wise.

C. Aelius Ericius
Praetor ad Californiam Provinciam
Pontiff

Subject:	Keep what where?
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:20:22 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii



I fail to see what is objectionable about this statement from Romanus. Whom
does it offend? How does it insult?

He is writing about history. Is there a gross error in his statement? If
so, please point it out for Romanus and the rest of us.

Let's not rush so toward censorship, neither of sexual, nor of historical,
content, please.

:From: Dexippus@--------
:
:In a message dated 12/18/98 9:38:21 AM EST, mdm8@-------- writes:
:
:<< Yes! The Western part of the empire had fallen but not on account of
: christianity. And, don't forget about the legacy of the Eastern Roman
Empire,
: Byzantine Empire, that not only survived but flourished , under
Christianity,
:for
: well over 1000 years. >>
:
:
:Ok...this was a heated debate not too long ago so let's just keep it
:there...ok?
:
:--Dexippus
:<<going out to enjoy the 2nd Day of Saturnalia!...Disco Dancing at the
:Colosseum -- a Night Club in Central New Jersey>>

Subject:	Another title somewhat related to morality
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:30:43 -0500

Salvete omnes

Here is another title for people like me who want to know something about
what Romans thought about sex and morality, at least, how they spoke about
sex...

"The Latin Sexual Vocabulary", J.N. Adams, John Hopkins University Press,
1982, ISBN 0-8018-2968-2

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Efharisto Megas
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:35:23 -0600

Salvete Omnes!

Hej Merullus, my in-laws are Greek, I sent an e-mail asking your question. I
should hear soon.

Vale - Venator

Gaius Marius Merullus wrote:

> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> My Latin is ok but Greek is certainly not my strength. Is "Efharisto Megas"
> Greek?
>
> Does anyone know what it means?
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Marius Merullus
>
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Subject:	Kill a Tree for Christ
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:59:17 EST

ok - I'm usually agreeable.......

Kill a Tree for Christ - done in Gregorian plain chant, and break dance style
music

(done in Gregorian plain chant)

Kill a tree for Christ
It's such a festive sacrifice
Wrench it from the ground
In the name of la tradition
Through it in the trunk
And tie it down with cords of bungeeeee
You'll need the needles every year
Cause you're a Christmas juuuunkie

(done in break dance style music)

Chop that puppy
Stick it on a stand
Smother him with tinsel
God'll understand
I said saw that puppy
For the holy man
Come new year's day
Just throw it in the can
Just throw it in the can
Just throw it in the can
What you say
Just throw it away

(back to Gregorian plain chant)

The Aztecs killed their lambs
The Mayans killed their precious viiiirgiiiins
The Moslems don't like cameras
It's really just superstition
Soooo
Kill a tree for Christ
It's such a festive sacrifice
We'll celebrate with sugarplums
For all the stumps in Christendom

Taken from a very old Dr Demento show many Winters ago-----I have no idea who
wrote it or who the original artists were - but it has become a favorite
seasonal Carol.....

It's very effective when done with innocent "heavenly" looks for the plain
chant portions, and wild when the singers fall into break dancing for the
center portion.

Secunda Floria Zonara
who has lived waaaay tooooo long and now has a perverted sense of humor
(also likes "Hard Rock Holiday" and "I Shot Santa in my Underwear" and "The
Christmas Pitch" and "I Came Upon a Road Killed Deer" and "Grandma's Spending
Christmas with the Superstars" and other such songs that make people blink
when they are caroled)

Subject:	Re: Keep what where?
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:12:36 EST

In a message dated 12/18/98 9:33:31 PM Central Standard Time,
rmerullo@-------- writes:

> fail to see what is objectionable about this statement from Romanus. Whom
> does it offend? How does it insult?

Well, if you don't consider calling listmembers and fellow citizens of Nova
Roma "filthy, perverted, amoral, anti-community and loathsome
creature"s offensive and insulting, you have a far thicker skin than I do.

Secunda Floria Zonara