Subject:	Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	michael marconi mdm8@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:12:48 -0500

Salvete!


I remember all the negative e-mails that flooded the mailing list when
I spoke, less than enthusiastically, about pagan Gods and morality. Many
of you so-called pagans blatantly attacked all my issues and especially
those which dealt anything that resembled or concerned your various
God(s). Many of the same individuals are now the perpetrators of these
anti Christian e-mails. Apparently you most believe that it is perfectly
all right for to bash Christianity, and at the same time too hell with
those that show displeasure in your conglomeration of myths and folk
tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or a God. AT LEAST
JESUS HAD WALKED THE EARTH AND HAD PERFORMED DOCUMENTED MIRACLES- you
surly could not say likewise for the likes of Thor, Poseidon, Mercury,
Diana..
If your looking for the one and true God than I highly advise you to
put away your old foolishness and pride and turn your hearts towards the
traditional Catholic latin mass- not the new/modern mass of post Vatican
II. Than you will more than likely, as I have, experience the truth. God
is far greater than any of your false deities. And the magic in praying
to the Saints, performing the church rituals and prayers is far greater
than any witchcraft, pagan rituals... It is just a sad fact that very
few Catholics now know of the full potential that radiates via the
church which itself is nurtured by God's grace.


HARD SAYINGS

One of the most common charges against the Christian Right is that
it's not "truly" Christian. Liberals call the Christian Right harsh,
intolerant, judgmental, puritanical, eager to impose its views on
others, and generally opposed to the spirit of Jesus.

If Jesus were here, we are told, he would be gentle, nonjudgmental,
and pluralistic, on the side of civil rights, gay rights and the
welfare state; he would abhor the negativism of those who profess to
speak in his name.

Unfortunately, the Jesus of the Gospels bears no resemblance to this
nice liberal Jesus. Liberals would find him downright un-Christian.

Pluralism? Jesus claimed to be "the light of the world" and "the
bread of life." He said things like this: "You are from beneath; I am
from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." He told
his enemies: "You are from your father the devil."

Jesus warned his disciples: "He who loves father or mother more than
me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me
is not worthy of me. And he who will not take up his cross and follow
me is not worthy of me."

Can't we all just get along? Isn't being nice what Christianity is
all about? "Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth; I
came to bring not peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man at
odds with his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the
daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. And a man's enemies will
be those of his own household."

As for the idea that Jesus would be indulgent toward private acts
between consenting adults, it was consent itself that he condemned:
"Whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery
with her in his heart." You can't get much more puritanical than
that!

"So if your hand or your foot offends you, cut them off, and throw
them away," he said. "And if your eye offends you, tear it out and
throw it away."

Tolerance? He told his apostles: "And whoever will not receive you,
nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake
the dust off your feet; truly I say to you, it shall be more
tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment
than for that city."

He also warned that "of every idle word that men speak, they shall
give account on the day of judgment." Time and again he said things
liberals would find, well, severely disappointing: "The Son of Man
shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom
all things that offend, and them who do iniquity, and shall cast them
into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
" "The angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the
just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire." "Whoever offends
one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for
him if a millstone were hung about his neck and if he were drowned in
the depths of the sea."

One trembles to say it, but all in all, Jesus probably wouldn't
qualify for membership in People for the American Way. The Christian
Right is at least much more in his style. Many of his sayings were so
stern and frightening that they drove away his weaker disciples:
"This is a hard saying," they would mutter; "who can accept it?"

They are still hard sayings. They were necessary because Jesus had
come to warn men that their souls were in danger, in need of
repentance and redemption.

After 2,000 years, Jesus is still hated. That may be the best clue to
what he was and is; nobody today hates Julius Caesar. Caesar doesn't
trouble you about your soul.

But those who hate Jesus don't say so openly; they merely profess to
admire a watered-down edition of his message, without the hard
sayings.

It comes down to this: Do we have souls, or not? If not, no problem.
But what if we do?

Valete!
Lucius Marconius Romanus


---
Yo--------e c--------ntly s--------ribed to tradcath as: [mdm8@--------]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
un--------cribe-tradcath@--------
Administr--------n Cont-------- bigscott@--------
-------------------------------
Messages from TradCath may not be copied to other lists
unless they contain these last two footers. For info on
joining TradCath visit: <a href="http://www.a2z.org/acts/tradlist.htm" target="_top" >http://www.a2z.org/acts/tradlist.htm</a>
---------------------------------
This Service provided free of charge by TexasStar.net.
All we ask in return is that you remember us for your web hosting needs.
<a href="http://www.TexasStar.net" target="_top" >http://www.TexasStar.net</a>

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:11:48 -0500 (EST)

Hey guys, it worked!!!!! I just deleted him and he went away!!!!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:23:31 -0500 (EST)

Valete A Iulia;

I thank you very much for your kind words and your congratulations. I
will try to get to know you a little better in the coming months. My
WebTV doesn't work so well in the Taverna, for some reason, and I do not
spend much time there. My gens much appreciates your gens greetings and
returns it in kind, wishing well for you and yours. t is my privaledge
to call you friend.

Vale, My Firiend

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:51:36 EST

Lucius Marconius Romanus,

When you posted a criticism of conduct in this forum, I rose to defend
your right to express your opinions although you expressed them in a very
offensive manner. I now find your own conduct indefensible. It is one
thing to voice dissent. It is quite another to openly attack and hold up
to ridicule the religious choices of your fellow citizens.

Your exposition with regard to Jesus is highly flawed, not to say
ignorant. It is also highly out of place here. Nobody here is likely to
be impressed by rabid proselytizing and I doubt anyone here considers it
appropriate to the purposes of this list.

I must ask you, Lucius Marconius, why you come here? You no longer make
any pretense of concern for the betterment of Nova Roma.

BTW, the gods and goddesses of Mankind have been performing miracles for
ages. For instance, Osiris was killed and dismembered, but rose again
from the dead.


Senators and citizens!

Do we not need a law making it a crime for any citizen to publicly attack
or hold up to public ridicule another citizen's religion? To refer to the
Religio Romana or to any citizen's private religion as a "conglomeration
of myths and folk tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or
a God" is, to my thinking, sowing discord and intolerance that we don't
need here.

Lucius Sergius Australicus


ita, te adloquor.

(Yeah, I'm talking to you.)

Subject:	Re: slavery
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:51:38 EST

Flavia Claudia wrote:
[in part]
>I don't, however, think it's a case of learning from Roma Antiqua, a
>culture that was certainly not the first nor the last to exploit labor.
>Why blame Rome alone?

Agreed. However I think that much of present Western society is based on,
or even a continuation of, Roman ways. I don't see Hittite symbols
displayed in the halls of the American congress, nor are the principles
of Japanese government incorporated into the U. S. Constitution. For this
reason, I think it is Roman ways that we most directly learned from.

Also, I think that the way Rome exploited the labor of the populations of
her overseas possessions was a major contributor to the instability and
eventual collapse of her empire. It's a kind of behavior that is
profitable in the short run, but has a long term cost that includes being
hated and being surrounded by people who will work hard at bringing you
down. So I think it's important for us to be cognizent of it.

But you are certainly correct in pointing out that it is not a flaw that
was unique to Rome.

Vale!

L. Sergius Aust.

Subject:	Re: Happy Mundane Holidays
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:08:49 -0500 (EST)

My involvement with Christians has been just the opposite. All of mine
and my wife's family have been so hipped on being "Christian to the
nines" that they can't see the agony they cause their own children. My
Mother-In-Law used to challenge me every time I took the kids up to see
her, as to wheher I had accepted Christ or not, She didn't ever give me
a chance to tell her except as a supplicant, and I'm not too good at
that. Finally, one day I drug a Book of the Koran out of my back pocket
and held it at arm's length saying,"Get Thee Behind me Satan!!!!!" At
least she never bugged me about religion again. My Mother and
Grandmother were Christian Scientists and died of it when they got sick
and would not see a doctor.

I took a group of Sea Scouts to a lake in Calif. and not knowing about
the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, I ran a
Protestant Church Service at the Lake. When I got back to town, I was
in big trouble and when I apologized it did no good. I told a
Monsignuer who was a Scouter and he said don't worry. To make a long
story short, I was invited to a specil mass together with all the upset
parents. The Monsignuer introduced the Bishop who called me front and
said that I had made an honest mistake and he wished all present would
forgive me. All of a sudden, I was a good guy again. Well, it scared
me so bad, that these peope couldn't make up their own minds without a
Bishop to intercede for them that I have been very careful since. This
does not mean that I don;t like Catholics as I work with several good
friends as such, but religion can lead you down strange paths, and if
you can't take an honest man / woman's word, operate effectvely without
determineing who is who and what is what in a religious nature, then
it's time say, "So long it's been good to know ye."

I feel comfortable here in that I feel welcome and have never felt
welcome, as I do here, in any church that I have attended. Finally in
closing, I do not require a lecture from someone who does not care about
my friends or this micronation, and who is not cognizant of the facts of
his lecture, or of the tragic history that his relidion has brought upon
a supposedly enlightened world.

Color me a Christian Student in a Roman World, looking for a little
history and a lot of Comradeship and willing to work for it. Seems to
me like a good sea to fish in!!!!!!!!!!! My opinions of course, but I
do not expect anyone to be weighed down with guilt in not reading this.
Turn it off if you do not care for it. I did and it felt
great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:12:11 -0600 (CST)

In regards to our latest self-righteous post from Lucius Marconius--

Sir,

With all due respect ( which is much more than you seem to
give any consideration to anyone in Nova Roma or quite possibly anywhere
else ) , why on earth would you even consider joining a pro-pagan
organization if all you can do is seemingly troll and insult others
because of their beliefs? You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine
but it is uncalled for to personally insult anyone on this list-
REPEATEDLY. I am personally offended by your references to our "false
gods" as you put it and your unceasing attack on the Religio Romana and
our- how did you say it "foolishness".
It is seemingly pointless to argue anymore or feed the ego of someone
as arrogant or prejudiced as you. From this point onward I am boycotting
all of your future posts and hope everyone else here does just that in
deleting them too unless an immediate apology is given to everyone that
reads this list. I also hope that you find somewhere else to slam people
and their beliefs if that is what "excites" you.

Calling it as I see it,

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Fast fingers again, was Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:12:29 -0600

Hailsa et Salvete Omnes;

I apologize. I should have taken this one to private e-mail firts.

Valete - Venator

Megas-Robinson wrote:

> From: Mega--------bin--------amgunn@--------
>
> Salve L. Marconius Romanus!
>
> I am amused to find that you are not a Christian as I suspected, but a Catholic, as
> was I at one time. I started losing respect for the Paulist Sect, when a Jesuit
> priest taught our C.C.D. class one Sunday about reincarnation, past-life regression
> therapy and human auras as being implicitly part of Catholic Doctrine. I've done
> too much reading over the past 3 decades (and no, I'm not claiming any scholarship
> in the field, just a personal view) to believe that the 'Bible' is any more a set
> of historical facts than are the fables of Aesop.
>
> I don't dispute the depth of your Faith and Belief, but I have a hard time taking
> seriously myth as history as you seem to be doing.
>
> Let's keep the prosletyzing off the board, for if the Truth is so self-evident, the
> Divine's message needs no human meddling.
>
> Vale - Venator (most of whose ancestors were converted by sword and fire in the
> name of the 'Prince of Peace.')
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:18:37 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, Patricia Cassia;

I thank you most kindly for you kind words. I much appreciate the
welcome that you and the others have given me in NR and I thank you for
it. I am most proud to call you friend.

Vale, My Friend

Marcus Mincius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:33:40 -0500 (EST)

S--------, Honored Rom--------SFP55@--------)

I thank you for your most kind words. I also thank you for the
privelege of agreeing to disagree, and to continue on our ways. I have
learned much from you, and I appreciate the ease in which we can make
our points without emnity. It allows both of us to learn and reconsider
points that were not complete in their own minds. I am proud to call
you friend.

Vale, My Friend

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:39:19 -0500 (EST)

Savete, My Dear Venator;

I thank you for your kind words, and for your friendship and for your
help in becoming one of the NR citizens. I hank you further for our
mutual interests which have allowed us to become good friends here on
the net. I hope to see you on the field somewhere in the coming season,
so that we indulge in a "real" pitcher of Falernian instead of the
eteral virtual ones!!!! I am proud to call you friend.

Vale, My Friend

Marcus Mincius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:45:14 -0600 (CST)

Congratulations Marcus Mincius Audens on your well deserved
elevation to the the Patrician class !!!

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:56:17 EST

Salve, Venator.
You stated, "I am amused to find that you are not a Christian as I suspected,
but a Catholic...." Begging the indulgence of the rest of the populace for
starting a somewhat off-topic thread, in what way do the two churches differ?
I was under the impression that Catholicism was simply a particular flavor of
Christianity.

Vale,
T. Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: Roman medical knowledge
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:16:28 EST

Salvete,

> and recommendations of the doctors the book implies that Romans had
> knowledge of germs and bacteria and how washing hands could stop the spread
> of disease. What I wish to know is if the Romans possessed this knowledge,
> or not.

It is my belief that the Romans did not. It is one thing to realize that
clean wounds tend to heal more quickly and with less infection. It is another
to know exactly what causes infection. That is not to say that Roman medecine
was not effective. A case in point for the Roman's medical ability can be
found on Crys' Sodalis Pro Infantia page. A large number of Roman birth
control and abortion methods seem to have involved medecines that worked as
advertised. Still, a large amount of Roman medical knowledge was also based
on superstition and blind guesswork. Like modern humans, the Romans were
resourceful and intelligent, but limited by the science of their times.

Valete,
T. Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:18:54 EST

Salve,

> My 2 cents,

And I thank you for it, Vartarius Quentius. Your post reflected what I know
about Catholicism, which is why Venator's statement has me confused.

Vale,
T. Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:35:06 -0500 (EST)

My congratulations my dear;

I could not be happier for you. It must be for you to reveal the
secret, but I wish you all the happiness in the world. My wife has
brought me a great peace and companionship. I hope the same for you and
yours, as you are ready.

M. Minucius (Audens)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Roman medical knowledge
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:07:11 -0500 (EST)

To the best of anyone's knowledge the Roman's did not possess proof of
the knowledge of Germs. The first proof of that was revealed in the
experiments of Louis Pasteur in the 19th century. However, surgeons in
the periode before Pastuer "knew" there was something going on and there
were many attempts to explain it: -Rising Mist out of swamp lands;
-Unbalanced humors of the body;
-Blistering;
-Bleeding;
-Etc
Cleaning a wound of dried blood and dirt helped the Medic see how
serious it was, and it is my belief that the military dispensaries of
the day were clean because of the environments ability to cheer patients
if nothing else. They used opium for pain, and they knew about being
"hooked" on drugs. Remember these were clever and thoughtful men, who
were highly trained in the medicines of the day as well as being
experienced in treating wounds. They sincerely wanted their patients to
get well, and they probably tried many things. It was known that a
wound bound up in it's own blood healed well more often than not but not
why. It was also known the hot wine dripped into an open wound
increased the chances of the wund healing but fought bitterly about
which kind of wine was better!!!! It was also known that tasting a
patient's urine for sweetness was a determination for diabetes. They
could not deal with deep wounds to the chest cavity or the abdoman and
did not know why. They were skilled in medicine of herbs from which
many of our medicines today are refined.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:13:44 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Gaius Drusus Domitianus!!!!

I thank you for your kind words, and your congratulations. I have
enjoyed your posts on the List, and am glad to be a part of this
Micronatoion and able to all you friend.

Vale, My Friend

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:36:02 -0500 (EST)

As I understand the Christain Religion, at the beginning of th
Reformation, there were 97 thesis written by the German Monk Teacher and
theologian Martin Luther, which were in Luther's opinion not correct in
the Catholic Religous writings. He did Not pin them to the door of the
Wittenburg Church as popular myth suggests, but he did present them to
his superiors in the church, and for his trouble was branded a heretic
and thrown into prison. At his trial in Wurms, Germany, he was seated
on a stool before the High Tribunal, and when he asked a pertinent
question regarding the Thesis that he had written, Charles the 1st,
Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, blasted him for an hour and a half
from his Royal Booth high above the floor of the Hall. When Charles
finished, Luther's answer was, "you did not answer the qustion!!" That
in essence is where the Protestant and Catholic Religions have been
until recent years. I am told that the Catholic Church has called
together several meetings for leaders of all the religions of the world
and one of their accomplishments has been to reduce the list of 97
thesis to only three which now separate the two religions, which are I
am told:

1. Intercession of a priest in bringing your sins before God;

2. Selling of indulgences;

and the third I do not know. The above is second hand from a good
friend who is a Catholic, and has the ability to discuss religion with a
friend without the need to decry or insult another's beliefs. If there
is an interest in this information I would be pleased to inquire
further.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Crys and Terry's Update
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:51:36 -0800

Ave Omnes,

Here is the latest update regarding Terry's status...Her temperature is
slowly starting to go down..its back down from 103.0 to 102.6. Crys is
getting relieved and she is checking on her hourly, and she is also
sleeping next to her...Tomorrow..Crys will go and get some medication
since she has no means of transportation now. Hopefully, it seems that
Terry will make it through the nite....I will be calling Crys later
today to see if there is any change. Everything is starting to look a
bit better. She states that she thanks everyone for their caring,
support and prayers. And will hopefully soon be online with further
updates!

Valete Omnes for now

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Praetor Urbanis - Elect

Subject:	Reading for this Sacred Dies Dei Mithrae Solis Invicti
From:	Antonio Manuel Grilo amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:02:29 +0000 (WET)

Salvete omnes!

Today we are celebrating the miracle of ressurrection of God Mithras Sol
Invictus. This is a very important event, not only for its immediate
meaning of fertiçlity and life brought again to Earth, but also for its
philosophical meaning. Today we should remind that our earthly life is
also a continuous decay and that one day we will also have our
ressurrection, for our inner Sol particle will one day return to its
primeval element, ascend and be reborn to the Heavens.
In order to celebrate this important date, I've humbly selected a reading
which is well in the spirit of our God Mithras Sol Invictus. I've chosen
it because Mithras Sol Invictus meant from the beginning the reunion of
all Gods, and as such He has accepted them as part of His Divine Nature,
not denying the validity of their cult. The following reading will just
throw light about this subject. Lets meditate a little on its words.

MOMUS - Tell me, O Zeus, however Attis and Corybas, and Sabazius ever get
trundled in upon us? Or Mithras over there, the Mede, in his caftan and
cap, who doesn't even speek Greek? And you, too, dog-faced Anubis - how
do you think you'll pass for a god if you keep barking? I'm ashamed,
Zeus, to mention all the ibises, monkeys, billy-goats and worse beasts
still, which have somehow been smuggled out of Egypt into Heaven. However
can you bear it, Gods, to see them worshipped as much as yourselves, or
even more? And you, Zeus, how can you put up with those rams' horns they
stick on your head?
ZEUS - All these points you mention about the Egyptians are in truth
unseemly. Nevertheless, Momus, most of them are matters of symbolism; and
one who is not an adept in the Mysteries really should not laugh at them.

(Lucian, The Parliament of the Gods 9-11)


Felix Dies Dei Mithrae Solis Invicti!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

Subject:	Terry this morning
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:09:09 EST

Salvete Romams --

It is 7:40 am and Terry is up and sort of about. She is still grumpy and
still saying"hot", but I think the worst (for both of us) is over.

I took her temperature as soon as she woke me up and it is 101.2 which, as far
as I am concerned is much better. I haven't checked my email yet, but I was
on the phone with Sulla at 2:30am (my time) when she was 102.6. She really
had me scared at 103 even. That was around 11:30 last night and when I called
911 who told me the number of the emergency nurse at the clinic. They told me
to get her cool as best I could. I stripped her down to her diaper and put
her in bed, and opened the bedroom window. It worked anyway. *I* was pretty
durned cold, but I kept warm and watched Terry. And she got cooler. This
morning she took a little juice and we opened grandmas Christmas present, a
book of poetry by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Terry is lying on the couch with her head in my lap, pretty quiet. I think
she will stay in her diaper today. Hopefully she will eat something, but the
doctor says not to worry about it right this minute.

I want to thank everyone who prayed for us and sent us white light. Zonara
for the advice and Ericus for the beautiful prayer and Noct'a and Sulla for
the support and white light. I haven't seen if there is anything else, so I
may be leaving some out. I will keep people updated as Terry (hopefully) gets
back to normal.

Thank you for being there,

Vale, Crys

Subject:	Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious) Olivia's responce
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:11:20 EST

Morning all and Salve!
I was raised a Methodist. OK a Christian...OK a liberal one at that. I was
raised to believe to respect those around me and what you give you get.
To be so rude as to attack your community is just plain and unspeakably vulgar
and low! I am no longer sure how I feel about faith other than to say that I
do have "faith"
I have "faith" that I love and will be loved
I have "faith" that the sun rises and sets and stars spin in their heaven!
I have "faith" that as I give respect to others I will in turn be giving
respect.
I have "faith" that Christ said "judge not lest ye be judged" That is one of
the most important Christian tenets and one of the lest used!

As to be so undereducated that to say the "pagan healing are not documented."
There are quite a few cases noted by historian over that ages! Christians
certainly don't have a corner on that market! Where to you think the early
Christian got the idea to leave a silver icon of a damaged body part that was
healed.
I had a very good friend who was/is a very devote Catholic. When asked about
the legends of many saints "look if you religion was nearly 2000 year old you
would have a few myths too"
I hope we can get past this but if this person can't refrain from such vulgar
writing can't we boot them off the list!!

P.A. Olivia
janet in Fort Wayne IN a hot bed of pretty churches and parks

Subject:	Re: Update 1
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:46:35 EST

In a message dated 12/24/98 9:54:04 PM Central Standard Time,
M--------2Two@-------- writes:

> Hopefully she will be her happy liittle self by morning. I hate seeing my
> Miracle so miserable!! And her fever rose so FAST!!! Scared me half to
> death.

Little ones do that - and they get well equally fast.
Keep us posted.

Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Nodigio@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:20:08 EST

In a message dated 12/24/98 10:10:20 PM Central Standard Time, mdm8@--------
writes:

> Can't we all just get along? Isn't being nice what Christianity is
> all about?

Excuuuuuuuuuuse ME! But YOUR post does not sound friendly, kind, or tolerant
in any fashion.

I, for one, have never bashed any religion. I have never belittled another's
beliefs by calling them a "conglomeration of myths and folk
tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or a God." Nor have I
ever been rude enough to proclaim my Gods are better than you Gods - as you
did when you said " God
is far greater than any of your false deities." Even more importantly, I have
never tried to force anyone to follow any specific set of beliefs or to force
people into my mold of what I think people should be - as you did - "I highly
advise you to
put away your old foolishness and pride and turn your hearts towards the
traditional Catholic latin mass"

"For I have come to set a man at
odds with his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the
daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. And a man's enemies will
be those of his own household."
This is precisely WHY I am a Pagan - my family was given to me by my Gods -
and my friends led into my path by my Gods - and my treatment of them, and of
strangers, is a measure of who I am, and of my use of the gifts given to me by
my Gods.

"After 2,000 years, Jesus is still hated." I'm so sorry you hate one of your
Gods. It must be tough following a religion whose Gods are repugnant to
oneself. My Gods have their moments, but I love everyone of them.

"It comes down to this: Do we have souls, or not? If not, no problem.
But what if we do? " We have souls - and what we do with them with one
another on this earth determines how those souls continue. A withered soul
can reblossom with tenderness and care - and some souls are pure enough to
shine through any adversity. And some souls are so dark, it could be
lifetimes before they can tolerate the light. I may have an average soul, but
I have never been hateful or hurtful towards another - even when I felt in my
heart they deserved it.

Now - I know you won't return the courtesy of reading my entire post as I did
yours. It doesn't matter. You never responded in any fashion to my last post
to you.

You have the complete right to believe what you will as firmly as you will. I
don't think anyone here will deny you that right. BUT:

You DO NOT have the right - God driven or otherwise! - to be rude and hateful.
You do not know what I believe. You have no clue as to the basis and
doctrines and effects of my beliefs. You have made no attempt to study my
beliefs. I know that if you ever do, "Than you will more than likely, as I
have, experience the truth. "

I really must point out, L. Marconius Romanus, that this list is a blatanlty
Pagan list. If this upsets, annoys, and frustrates you, what ARE you doing
here? There are many good Roman lists which are not Pagan. Have you tried
any of those? Religion is not a part of their focus, as it is ours. They are
students of history - not re-creators of it.

Until and unless YOU are willing to live in the "Can't we all just get along?"
concept - even if you don't believe in it - and I know you don't, because you
would never have posted such a hate-filled email if you did - then I, for one,
will delete any and all email posted by you - or anyone like you. It no
longer matters to me what you may otherwise contribute to this list, because
you have shown no love or tolerance for who and what we are. I suppose there
must be a hatemongerer in almost any community, but that doesn't mean I must
associate with them. To quote Seneca, "Exigua pars est vitae quam nos
vivimus" - and it's too short to live in hatred and vitriol.

May you fare well and find like minded brethren with whom to commune. Sadly,
I shall not be of that ilk.

Secunda Floria Zonara

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:21:21 -0600

Ave Fortunatus!

My point is that Catholicism has always seemed to concern itself with a rigid Church
hierarchy, 'Mass' structure and Cathecism, rather than Faith and the pre-Paulist message
of the Rabbi from Nazereth. If anything can be read into my attitude, it is the Arianist
view the Yeshua ben Yusef was a man, like you and I, but inspired of the Divine - and to
whose biography has been appended many strange and fantastic tales in the intervening
centuries.

Vale - Venator

SDmtwi@-------- wrote:

> From: SDmtwi@--------
>
> Salve, Venator.
> You stated, "I am amused to find that you are not a Christian as I suspected,
> but a Catholic...." Begging the indulgence of the rest of the populace for
> starting a somewhat off-topic thread, in what way do the two churches differ?
> I was under the impression that Catholicism was simply a particular flavor of
> Christianity.
>
> Vale,
> T. Labienus Fortunatus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:28:16 -0600

Ave Ericius!

I usually think in longer historical terms than the current 'Millenialist' fundamentalism.
I hie back to my reply to Fortunatus.

I believe that Yeshua ben Yusef lived, taught and may have been executed for trying to
foment socio-political upset in the Hellenized Judaism of his time. But I do not believe
that he was anymore a 'God' on earth than you or I.

Vale - Venator

Razenna wrote:

> From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
>
> > Salve,
> >
> > > My 2 cents,
> >
> > And I thank you for it, Vartarius Quentius. Your post reflected what I know
> > about Catholicism, which is why Venator's statement has me confused.
> >
> > Vale,
> > T. Labienus Fortunatus
>
> I do not *know* what spin Venator was putting on his terms but my take on it was as if
> he was using the terms in the manner that those Nazarenes who some of call
> Fundamentalists use the words. In their lexicon "Christian" means "Born Again" (or some
> other restrictive defining "thing"). I have heard such good folk say, "I'm not a
> Catholic, I'm a Christian." As one religion commentator put it, they are "arrogating"
> the word "Christian" exclusively to themselves. In this sense neither the Pope of Rome
> or the Archbishop of Canterbury is a "Christian". My observations have been as a
> non-participant observer who does his best to keep his head down.
>
> C. Aelius Ericius
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Reading for this Sacred Dies Dei Mithrae Solis Invicti
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:37:14 -0600

Vale Graecus!

Vivat! I found this to a wonderful Religious post. The quote of the
conversation between 'Momus' and Zeus gives words to many of my own thoughts.

Mille Gratias - Venator

> From: Antonio Manuel Grilo amg@--------
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Today we are celebrating the miracle of ressurrection of God Mithras Sol
> Invictus. This is a very important event, not only for its immediate
> meaning of fertiçlity and life brought again to Earth, but also for its
> philosophical meaning. Today we should remind that our earthly life is
> also a continuous decay and that one day we will also have our
> ressurrection, for our inner Sol particle will one day return to its
> primeval element, ascend and be reborn to the Heavens.
> In order to celebrate this important date, I've humbly selected a reading
> which is well in the spirit of our God Mithras Sol Invictus. I've chosen
> it because Mithras Sol Invictus meant from the beginning the reunion of
> all Gods, and as such He has accepted them as part of His Divine Nature,
> not denying the validity of their cult. The following reading will just
> throw light about this subject. Lets meditate a little on its words.
>
> MOMUS - Tell me, O Zeus, however Attis and Corybas, and Sabazius ever get
> trundled in upon us? Or Mithras over there, the Mede, in his caftan and
> cap, who doesn't even speek Greek? And you, too, dog-faced Anubis - how
> do you think you'll pass for a god if you keep barking? I'm ashamed,
> Zeus, to mention all the ibises, monkeys, billy-goats and worse beasts
> still, which have somehow been smuggled out of Egypt into Heaven. However
> can you bear it, Gods, to see them worshipped as much as yourselves, or
> even more? And you, Zeus, how can you put up with those rams' horns they
> stick on your head?
> ZEUS - All these points you mention about the Egyptians are in truth
> unseemly. Nevertheless, Momus, most of them are matters of symbolism; and
> one who is not an adept in the Mysteries really should not laugh at them.
>
> (Lucian, The Parliament of the Gods 9-11)
>
> Felix Dies Dei Mithrae Solis Invicti!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> (Propraetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:16:46 -0600

Salvete Omnes;

If I may, one more set of thoughts on the original post in this thread.

The "traditional Latin" or "Tridentine" Mass was authored during the "Tridentine
Council" which met from 1545 to 1563 in the city of Trento in northern Italy. It
is from this council, which was called to form the intellectual counter-attack to
the "Protestant Reformaton," that we receive the modern form of "Roman
Catholicism."

Also, as Yeshua most likely spoke Aramaic, and perhaps Classical Greek (if one
supposes he was of the upper-class/traditional, Sacral King's lineage), then how
is a ceremony in Renaissance Latin to be suppossed as traditional for the
followers of this ancient Jewish teacher?

Vale - Venator

Subject:	Re: religious matters
From:	Antonio Manuel Grilo amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:47:01 +0000 (WET)

Salve Patricia Cassia!


In fact the birthday of Mithras Sol Invictus was the real celebration of
25th December. It was already the day of birth of the mysterious Mithras.
The Christians adopted this date to their Christmas during the 4th
century AD in order to end the pagan character of the celebrations (real
Christmas was on January 6th).
It was Aurelian who made Mithras Sol Invictus as part of the official
religion of Rome (see a previous posting...) and on 25th December there
were public games on His memory.

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor ad Lusitaniam Provinciam)



On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, jane wrote:

> From: -------- p--------@--------
>
> Salvete Nova Romans!
>
> I would like to wish a Happy Christmas to the Christians on this list!
>
> Also, thank you to Graecus for that lovely reading for the birthday of
> Mithras. Does anyone have any information on whether Mithraic
> practitioners celebrated the god's birthday, and how such observances
> might have been performed?
>
> Finally, as list moderator I have informed Marconius that his most recent
> post insulted Roman Pagan religion and thus was inappropriate for this
> list. If he does it again, I'll unsub him and ban further postings.
>
> Please rest assured that I (and Cassius, the co-moderator) will use this
> power sparingly, but will use it if ANY religion is under assault. While
> the Nova Roma list often engages in freewheeling debate, it needs to be a
> place where all people, of whatever faith, are welcome.
>
> If you feel you have been attacked on this list, please e-mail one of us
> privately. I assure you we will take your remarks seriously.
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: Moral and other definitions made useless after 1789 AD - c...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:33:06 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/24/98 2:12:06 PM EST, Nodigio@-------- writes:

<< And as for toys
----- have you EVER been to a physical therapist's torture chamber - uh -
clinic? Hot paraffin tub, harnesses, traction devices, heat moldable
splints,
... >>


I'LL BE RIGHT OVER!!!!!!!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Happy Mundane Holidays
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:35:50 EST

In a m--------g--------t--------2/24/98 2:55:01 PM EST, raz--------@-------- writ--------br>
<< Who ever said The Games were gone? That sounds like a Match suitible for
the Ludi
Romani!Go DEX!!!! >>

Yes..it was a fun match! And I really enjoyed that clove cigarrette when I
got home. Tonight (Christmas Day) begins Round 2....left overs and an even
more heated debate because it's just me, my parents, and my brother (my sister
is at her inlaws).

Should be a short night as I have a party afterwards with my Ren and Freak
friends. Who said the Saturnalia was over?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:36:35 EST

In a m--------g--------t--------2/24/98 2:58:07 PM EST, al--------us@-------- writ--------br>
<< Congrats Audens for now being a member of us, fellow bluebloods...who,
as Ericius, once posted, have been lifted by
Fortuna...lol...Well..anyway, you are now one of us. Congratulations. >>


I second that! I'm just trying to get through 78 postings! Don't you people
ever take a holiday?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Moral and other definitions made useless after 1789 AD - c...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:40:51 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/24/98 3:14:27 PM EST, LSergAust@-------- writes:

<< >GODS BLESS KATHY LEE GIFFORD!
>
Who, pray tell, is she? >>

She's the nut who owns a sewing factory and employs immigrant child labor.
Guess you're not up on celeb faulties.

<<Apple
Macintoshes, as far as I know, are mainly produced in California, Japan,
and Taiwan, and not by slave labor.>>

And your point being what? Minimum wage, my dear, still doesn't cover the
cost of living. Good attempt to justify though....

<<If you're experiencing a "guilt-trip," I guess that validates my
comments. I was merely offering a bit of '60s-style conciousness raising.
Don't worry -- the masses aren't about to rise up and strip you of your
luxuries.>>

Guilt trip? Me? Oh no Doll! I don't carry guilt trips. Have no shame and
no regrets. And as far as the masses...LET THEM EAT CAKE!

--Dexippus
<<Marie Antoinette is my hero>>

Subject:	Re: slavery
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:43:52 EST

In a message dated 12/24/98 7:08:24 PM EST, m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< as Kathy Lee found out for herself when she was so 'shocked' to
discover the conditions of the workers who made her line of clothes. >>

Oh..she wasn't shocked! She may have played it for the media but she knew
damn well the conditions of the workers.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Terry's sick!!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:45:14 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/24/98 8:42:46 PM EST, M--------2Two@-------- writes:

<< I am asking for white light and prayers for my baby. I am going to give
her a
nice cool bath with lavendar oil (the scent sooths her it seems) for this
fever. >>

White Light coming at ya!

I know Terry will be fine...but in the end, take her to the hospital if she's
not feeling better by tomorrow...don't wait till Sunday.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Clove cigarettes was Happy Mundane Holidays
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:51:16 EST

In a message dated 12/24/98 10:30:13 PM EST, rmerullo@-------- writes:

<< Is it true that burning cloves yield euginol, a substance that punches
holes
in lung tissue? I enjoyed those until I heard a report on euginol... >>

Inhaling the smoke of cloves directly into your lungs can severly damage lung
tissue. It is not a cigarrette for wimps. The trick with clove cigarretes is
not to inhale the smoke down into the lungs but to hold it in the mouth and
exhale. The treat of smoking clove is the taste it leaves on the lips, not
the "high" you get from inhaling it into the lungs. This is why people who
smoke cloves regularly get in trouble with them because they treat it as a
normal tobacco cigarrette. DO NOT TAKE THE SMOKE DOWN INTO YOUR LUNGS! And
no more than 2 clove ciggarettes a week. As I only smoke one or two a month,
I don't worry about it much.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:11:32 EST

In a message dated 12/24/98 11:10:09 PM EST, mdm8@-------- writes:

<< Many
of you so-called pagans blatantly attacked all my issues and especially
those which dealt anything that resembled or concerned your various
God(s). Many of the same individuals are now the perpetrators of these
anti Christian e-mails. Apparently you most believe that it is perfectly
all right for to bash Christianity >>

Ok...here we go again! No one is bashing Christianity. The discussions on
this board have revolved around our particular view of Christmas and how we
feel out of place when sitting down to dinner on this day.

<<AT LEASTJESUS HAD WALKED THE EARTH AND HAD PERFORMED DOCUMENTED MIRACLES-
you surly could not say likewise for the likes of Thor, Poseidon, Mercury,
Diana..>>

And where is your documented proof? These "miracles" are only recorded in
your "bible" and no where else. Surely this is insufficient evidence and can
as easily be dismissed as myth just as the many MIRACLES of the OUR GODS have
been dismissed as myth by your kind. Remember that it has yet to be concluded
that Jews were slaves in Egypt. There are no Egyptian writings speaking of
enslaved hebrews. Some scholars believe that the Old Testament Writings use
"Egypt" to refer to a time and place when the Hebrews were ignorant of their
God and his plan for them.

<<If your looking for the one and true God than I highly advise you to
put away your old foolishness and pride and turn your hearts towards the
traditional Catholic latin mass- not the new/modern mass of post Vatican
II. Than you will more than likely, as I have, experience the truth. God
is far greater than any of your false deities. And the magic in praying
to the Saints, performing the church rituals and prayers is far greater
than any witchcraft, pagan rituals... It is just a sad fact that very
few Catholics now know of the full potential that radiates via the
church which itself is nurtured by God's grace. >>

With all do respect....GO @#$! YOURSELF! Who the hell do you think you are
coming on to this list and preaching this garbage! Many of us here were
raised Catholic and have experienced a "Latin" Mass and found it to be dull
and unfulfilling! Perhaps you should try a Pagan ritual and feel the true
spirit of the Divine!

<<If Jesus were here, we are told, he would be gentle, nonjudgmental,
and pluralistic, on the side of civil rights, gay rights and the
welfare state; he would abhor the negativism of those who profess to
speak in his name.

Unfortunately, the Jesus of the Gospels bears no resemblance to this
nice liberal Jesus. Liberals would find him downright un-Christian.>>

And who really gives a damn anyway! He's not here...he's dead...and he's not
coming back! If you want to believe that...you go right ahead. But don't you
dare try to espouse your warped sense of moralism upon me or anyone else on
this list! I would argue that your Jesus of the Gospel bares no resemblance
whatsoever to a man who may have walked upon this earth 2,000 years ago. You
are no better than most of the Fundies I have encountered...taking pleasure in
disrupting our peace and doing your damndest to insite unrest! This is a
Pagan Organization and if you can't be here and play nice...get the @#$! out!

<<Pluralism? Jesus claimed to be "the light of the world" and "the
bread of life." He said things like this: "You are from beneath; I am
from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." He told
his enemies: "You are from your father the devil." >> etc....

I, Damianus Lucianus Dexippus, Paterfamilias of Gens Luciania and Augur of
Nova Roma do hereby call for the immediate Expulsion of Lucius Marconius
Romanus from Nova Roma. This insane attempt at preaching his own personal
views and religion in an adverse tone is against Nova Roman ideals. I hereby
request the Powers That Be to take the necessary actions of reprimand and ban
this individual from this list and all Nova Roma activities!

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
Augur Nova Roma

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:14:58 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 12/25/98 0:51:52 AM EST, LSergAust@-------- writes:

<< Do we not need a law making it a crime for any citizen to publicly attack
or hold up to public ridicule another citizen's religion? To refer to the
Religio Romana or to any citizen's private religion as a "conglomeration
of myths and folk tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or
a God" is, to my thinking, sowing discord and intolerance that we don't
need here. >>

This and Romanus's flagrant disregard for his fellow citizen's personal
spiritual beliefs is grounds for expulsion! I request the Senate to make it
so.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:19:43 -0800

Dex..I dont think it would be the Senate...but the Censors...

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Praetor Urbanis - Elect

Dexippus@-------- wrote:

> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> In --------ss--------d-------- 12/25/98 0:51:52 AM EST, LSergAust@-------- writes:
>
> << Do we not need a law making it a crime for any citizen to publicly attack
> or hold up to public ridicule another citizen's religion? To refer to the
> Religio Romana or to any citizen's private religion as a "conglomeration
> of myths and folk tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or
> a God" is, to my thinking, sowing discord and intolerance that we don't
> need here. >>
>
> This and Romanus's flagrant disregard for his fellow citizen's personal
> spiritual beliefs is grounds for expulsion! I request the Senate to make it
> so.
>
> --Dexippus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:19:22 EST

In a message dated 12/25/98 1:12:17 AM EST, dean6886@-------- --------es:

<< From this point onward I am boycotting
all of your future posts and hope everyone else here does just that in
deleting them too unless an immediate apology is given to everyone that
reads this list. I also hope that you find somewhere else to slam people
and their beliefs if that is what "excites" you. >>

I will accept no apology from Lucius Marconius Romanus as I believe any
attempt would be insincere. I call for the immediate expulsion of this person
from Nova Roma.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Roman medical knowledge
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:25:41 EST

In a message dated 12/25/98 3:07:16 AM EST, jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

<< To the best of anyone's knowledge the Roman's did not possess proof of
the knowledge of Germs. The first proof of that was revealed in the
experiments of Louis Pasteur in the 19th century. >>

This was a very enlightening post...

Thanks Audens!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: religious matters
From:
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:39:05 EST

In a message dated 12/25/98 12:36:41 PM EST, p--------@-------- writes:

<< Also, thank you to Graecus for that lovely reading for the birthday of
Mithras. Does anyone have any information on whether Mithraic
practitioners celebrated the god's birthday, and how such observances
might have been performed?
>>

And I too wish to thank Graecus for his education into Mithraism and for
giving me a reason to look upon December 25 as a Pagan Holiday and extension
of my Saturnalia and Yule celebrations.

Wait until the family hears this one!!!!!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:44:06 EST

In a m--------g--------t--------2/25/98 2:19:38 PM EST, al--------us@-------- writ--------br>
<< Dex..I dont think it would be the Senate...but the Censors...

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Praetor Urbanis - Elect >>

Then I call upon the Censors to take the appropriate measures of expelling
this disease from our midsts.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Jesus goes bye-bye
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:10:18 -0500

James Mathews wrote:
>
> From: jmath669642reng@-------- (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Hey guys, it worked!!!!! I just deleted him and he went away!!!!!!
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
Audens! Isn't it great! I tried the delete key too, and his just
magically went away! So did any posts having to do with the subject. It
must have been a miracle from Jupiter!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: religious matters
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:13:12 -0600 (CST)

The moderate Christian chimes in...

>I would like to wish a Happy Christmas to the Christians on this list!

Thank you, Patricia Cassia, and my thanks also to all the other Nova
Romans who have sent me Christmas greetings in private--that was sweet.
It's been fascinating reading about how our Olympians and Mithraists
have been celebrating the Solstice, touching to hear their stories of
feeling out-of-place, and worth a good laugh seeing the many ways
they've dealt with that. >({|;-)

>Finally, as list moderator I have informed Marconius that his most
>recent post insulted Roman Pagan religion and thus was inappropriate
>for this list.

For some reason I did not get the Marconius post, but if the parts of
it that have been quoted by others are any indication, I did not miss
anything. Not only are such messages insulting to Roman Paganism, they
are also insulting to intelligent Christianity. I know what I believe,
but I 'm not about to jump in someone's face uninvited and say "The
Universe must needs be what I think it is and I know all about it". It
is this attitude which, I think, has made so many of my fellow Nova
Romans leery of having Christian members in their midst.

For the record, Quirites, we are not all like that. I get it from the
Fundies too, of all faiths. I will say to anyone who tries to pull
that crap on my friends what I said to the last 'disruptive influence'
to appear on a mailing-list I subscribed to: "If all you have managed
to derive from Christ's message is the threat of hellfire, you, sir,
have *completely missed the point*. ...Kindly cease
misrepresenting God, harrassing others, and embarrassing yourself."

Yours under the Eagles (and a few other numina who seem to think kindly
of me)...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel legion6@--------
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: Roman medical knowledge
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:20:50 -0500

James Mathews wrote:
>
>
> Cleaning a wound of dried blood and dirt helped the Medic see how
> serious it was, and it is my belief that the military dispensaries of
> the day were clean because of the environments ability to cheer patients
> if nothing else.

"Medicine consists of amusing the patient while Nature cures the
disease"
-- Voltaire

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:04:59 -0500

L. Marconius Romanus wrote:

> I remember all the negative e-mails that flooded the mailing list when
>I spoke, less than enthusiastically, about pagan Gods and morality. Many
>of you so-called pagans blatantly attacked all my issues and especially
>those which dealt anything that resembled or concerned your various
>God(s). Many of the same individuals are now the perpetrators of these
>anti Christian e-mails.

I don't think anyone accused you of blasphemy or mocking the gods. They
accused you of intolerance towards fellow-citizens and promoting a
religio-political agenda foreign to Nova Roma.

>AT LEAST JESUS HAD WALKED THE EARTH AND HAD PERFORMED
>DOCUMENTED MIRACLES- you surly could not say likewise for the likes
>of Thor, Poseidon, Mercury, Diana..

If the Bible is to be "documentation" of miracles the instances of divine
intervention reported by the ancient historians should be equally accepted.

>Unfortunately, the Jesus of the Gospels bears no resemblance to this
>nice liberal Jesus. Liberals would find him downright un-Christian.

What's this got to do with this mailing list???
Christianity has been many things, but for the larger part of its
existence (from 313 CE to 1789 CE) it was primarily the
clerical-ideological prop and stay of absolute monarchy, and my own opinion
is that monotheism is a theological form of monarchism. So most Christian
tradition is "illiberal" - which is to say, hostile to libertas and the
republican virtues. Consistent republicanism in contrast has tended to be
deistic or atheistic. The recognition of the PLURALITY of the divine - as
in our reconstruction of the Religio Romana - may provide a securer
foundation for a free republic.

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:05:02 -0500

Sulla wrote ...

>Dex..I dont think it would be the Senate...but the Censors...

>Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
>Praetor Urbanis - Elect

>Dexippus@-------- wrote:

>> From: Dexippus@--------
>>
>>
>>This and Romanus's flagrant disregard for his fellow citizen's personal
>>spiritual beliefs is grounds for expulsion! I request the Senate to make
it
>>so.
>>
>>--Dexippus
>>

What the Constitution (Art II. 4) says is that Citizenship may be
"involuntarily revoked"
1. By senatus consulta
2. Through the judgment of a magistrate after a trial in accordance
with the leges Novae Romae ... (no relevant leges have yet been
passed)
(3. is not relevant to these facts)
Art II. 4 also provides for an appeal to the Comitia Centuriata.

Dexippus is therefore right that the matter should in the first instance go
to the Senate. But do you really want to make it an "accusatio", Dex? Under
classical roman law the accuser risked, if the accused was found not
guilty, the penalty for the crime alleged...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: Senatorial Appointments
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:04:57 -0500

Congratulations to Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Flavia Claudia Juliana on
their appointment as Senators!

And to the Senate on their excellent decisions!

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Congratulations from Legio XXIV
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:29:08 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


December 25, 1998
Year of Rome 2751

Avete et Gratulatio... Marcus Minucius Audens, Quaestor Elect

Hello and Congratulations from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
Tribune Militaris, NovaRoma Gens Velia
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
gwmetz@-------- 610-363-4982

Congratulations from Legio XXIV and the Gens Velia on the elevation
of your Gens Minucia to Patrician status within NovaRoma.

As a member of Legio XXIV, I had offered to adopt you into my
Gens Velia; but, in recognition of your service to the "New Rome",
the Senate has seen fit to adopt you as a new Patrician Family and
NovaRoma will be that much better for their actions.

Serve well and fair.

On this day of celebration for the Feast of Mithras and the Birth of Christ,
we of Legio XXIV also extend our wishes to you and to all of
NovaRoma for a most fulfilling holiday season, both pagan and Christian.


Vestrum in Vinculi Republica Romani
Yours in the Bonds of the Republic of Rome


Gallio / George


O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A


ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
|| | | ||
|| |||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||
\/ | | \/
| |
| |
| |

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:22:20 -0800 (PST)

> Actually, Catholics are Christians. There are several sects of
Catholicism
> (Roman, Anglican,

Actually Anglicans are Church of England - protestants.
They just tend to be very high CofE so confusing them with Catholics
is easy LOL

>
> Vartarius Quentius
> www.livinghistory.org

Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:46:34 -0800 (PST)

> My congratulations my dear;
>
> I could not be happier for you. It must be for you to reveal the
> secret, but I wish you all the happiness in the world. My wife has
> brought me a great peace and companionship. I hope the same for you
and
> yours, as you are ready.

Why thank you, amicus mihi!
OK the 'secret' is not really a secret.
As most of you know Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I announced to the
world that we were a couple early this month!
We are very happy together and, in July, I am coming to the States for
2 months to visit Sulla.
I can't wait!!

So far we are definately visiting Crys (She'll have Lapis then YAY!!!)
and Marius Fimbria.
We are also hoping to visit Quintus Fabius and
Ericius:)


Noct'a


>
> M. Minucius (Audens)
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
>
> From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
>
> >
> > > Yes...you do seem to have that department covered...I wonder just
> who he
> > > could be! ;) Please share with the group...I am sure we are all
> waiting for
> > > your answer!
> > >
> > > Lucius Corenlius Sulla, Quaestor
> > > Praetor Urbanis - Elect
> >
> > Yeeessss Noct'a....do tell.....I understand the Taverna has turned
> into a den
> > of eniquity??? Please.....share.....hehehehehehehehe
>
> Errr..well.......
> *Turns a deep red and refuses to comment*
>
>
> > Crys (and, NO, it's not me)
>
> Nah...Ye can't travel in your state! Oh welll :(
> LOL
>
> Noct'a
> *Now a lovely shade of beet-red*
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:46:46 -0500 (EST)

Salve, M. Mucius Scaevola Magister;

In reviewing your excellent portrayal of the NR Constitution it would
seem there is only one choice, as I am not aware that the Comitia
Centuriata delegates have been appointed.

If that is true, then I second the appeal of Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciana
Augur Nova Roma

with my own. This is the second time that the subject has been brought
onto the Nova Roma Onelist by this writer, who has seen fit to insult
the religious beliefs and the moral fibre of the Citizens herein
enrolled.

The first time may well have been a mistake, but the second instance
was obviously deliberate and provacative. The nation who cannot defend
herself against detractors and attackers will not long survive in the
opinion of other world nations with whom we must co-exist, but more
importantly with ourselves whose pride, can, will and must prevail over
those who would drive us to heel, and have us bow before gods not freely
selected. I stand with the Augur Damianus Lucianus Dexippus, even
though the law may find against me in the fullness of time!

Come Friends, Romans and Countrymen and women, who will stand with us
against tyranny and insults to we and our chosen way??

Marcus Minucius Audens
Paterfamilas, Minucias
Quaestor - Elect
Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Ousting
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:54:22 EST

In a message dated 98-12-25 21:46:58 EST, you write:

> Come Friends, Romans and Countrymen and women, who will stand with us
> against tyranny and insults to we and our chosen way??


I'm with them. If this means I get ousted instead, then so be it. I cannot
bear sharing my beloved Nova Roma with that man anyway. So I guess one of us
has to go.

Crys (packiing just in case)

Subject:	Re: Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:56:46 -0500 (EST)

Wow!!!!!!!! If you are going to over that many miles, you might as well
drop by New London Ct. and freeze in a genteel way on the ice covered
Thames River. LOL

Seriously, if there is a possibility, you are invited to drop by for
lunch and a warm drink at the very least.

All the best to both!!!!
M.Minucius (Audens)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:00:31 EST

In a message dated 98-12-25 21:57:07 EST, you write:

>
> Wow!!!!!!!! If you are going to over that many miles, you might as well
> drop by New London Ct. and freeze in a genteel way on the ice covered
> Thames River. LOL
>
> Seriously, if there is a possibility, you are invited to drop by for
> lunch and a warm drink at the very least.
>
> All the best to both!!!!
> M.Minucius (Audens)


Well.....truth be told, will likely be closer than Iamnow come summer. I am
seeriously considering a move to the Houston area.

But what the heck!!!! Make it a US tour Sulla!!!!!!!!!

Crys(trying to picture Sulla dressed like Prince)

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:02:45 -0500 (EST)

I suspect that the Archbishop of Canterbury, would have comment
regarding his Church of England and the Catholic Church. LOL / LOL / LOL

M. Municius (Audens)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:07:54 -0800 (PST)

> >
> > Wow!!!!!!!! If you are going to over that many miles, you might
as well
> > drop by New London Ct. and freeze in a genteel way on the ice
covered
> > Thames River. LOL
> >
> > Seriously, if there is a possibility, you are invited to drop by
for
> > lunch and a warm drink at the very least.
> >
> > All the best to both!!!!
> > M.Minucius (Audens)
>
>
> Well.....truth be told, will likely be closer than Iamnow come
summer. I am
> seeriously considering a move to the Houston area.
>
> But what the heck!!!! Make it a US tour Sulla!!!!!!!!!

HEY!!
We want some time together ye know!!

>
> Crys(trying to picture Sulla dressed like Prince)
>
Oh yes!!!
LOL

Noct'a
*Can see Sulla as Prince LOL*

Subject:	Re: Star-Crossed --------!!!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:09:29 -0800

"A. Iulia" wrote:

> From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
> > My congratulations my dear;
> >
> > I could not be happier for you. It must be for you to reveal the
> > secret, but I wish you all the happiness in the world. My wife has
> > brought me a great peace and companionship. I hope the same for you
> and
> > yours, as you are ready.
>
> Why thank you, amicus mihi!
> OK the 'secret' is not really a secret.
> As most of you know Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I announced to the
> world that we were a couple early this month!
> We are very happy together and, in July, I am coming to the States for
> 2 months to visit Sulla.
> I can't wait!!
>

Yes..two Great months...so that we can get to know each other better... at
least one month for that..and the second month for traveling....so..if you
want us to try to visit you and you live in the South-SouthWest
area...please let us know...as you can see below..our itinerary is being
set. :)

Maybe next year...we will be able to go east! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
Praetor Urbanis - Elect

>
> So far we are definately visiting Crys (She'll have Lapis then YAY!!!)
> and Marius Fimbria.
> We are also hoping to visit Quintus Fabius and
> Ericius:)
>
> Noct'a
>
> >
> > M. Minucius (Audens)
> >
> > Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
> >
> >
> > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> >
> > From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > Yes...you do seem to have that department covered...I wonder just
> > who he
> > > > could be! ;) Please share with the group...I am sure we are all
> > waiting for
> > > > your answer!
> > > >
> > > > Lucius Corenlius Sulla, Quaestor
> > > > Praetor Urbanis - Elect
> > >
> > > Yeeessss Noct'a....do tell.....I understand the Taverna has turned
> > into a den
> > > of eniquity??? Please.....share.....hehehehehehehehe
> >
> > Errr..well.......
> > *Turns a deep red and refuses to comment*
> >
> >
> > > Crys (and, NO, it's not me)
> >
> > Nah...Ye can't travel in your state! Oh welll :(
> > LOL
> >
> > Noct'a
> > *Now a lovely shade of beet-red*
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Congratulations from Legio XXIV
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:26:12 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Gallio Velius Marsallas, Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media Atlantica;

My most humble thanks for your kind words. They fall upon my ears ever
sweeter as they come from my own Legio. I shall always support my Legio
as my country to the best always of my inate ability. I also much
appreciate (more than is capable of being shown over this medium of
communication) your most generous offer, and I am informed that your
most kind and unselfish offer reached the Senate just after my
application. Other wise, I should have been hard put to it to make an
answer. Yours is the second offer of adoption that I have received
since enrolling in Nova Roma, and I am much taken and humbled by these
generous and flattering gestures on my behalf. I am most appreciative
of ll your kindnesses toward me and feel very privaledged to call you
friend.

Vale, My Friend and Comrade In Arms

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:17:16 EST

Salvete, Omnes:

Actually there are a few ways in which a Citizen may be expelled, according to
our Constitution. The Senate has the power to do so, the Censors don't have
the authority on their own.

In my view, Lucius Marconius Romanus has clearly, blatantly, and intentionally
violated Article VI, Paragraph 1 of our Constitution which states that
"Citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage
in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio
Romana, or its practitioners..."

I believe that his post to the public and official email list on December 24th
violated this provision.

Article II, Paragraph 4, Section 1 grants the Senate the right to expell
Citizens by Senatus Consultum. I have this night introduced a bill enjoining
the Senate to do just that.

To my mind, the matter is clear. Our Constitution forbids certain activity
(i.e., blasphemy against the Religio Romana and the Gods of Rome), and Romanus
has deliberately violated this provision. I believe that we should remove him
from the rolls of the Citizens of our Republic. Our Constitution demands no
less.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Co-Founder (happy, Cassius?) and Senator

In a message dated 12/25/98 2:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
al--------us@-------- writ--------br>
> Dex..I dont think it would be the Senate...but the Censors...
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
> Praetor Urbanis - Elect
>
> Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> > From: Dexippus@--------
> >
> > In --------ss--------d-------- 12/25/98 0:51:52 AM EST, LSergAust@-------- writes:
> >
> > << Do we not need a law making it a crime for any citizen to publicly
> attack
> > or hold up to public ridicule another citizen's religion? To refer to
the
> > Religio Romana or to any citizen's private religion as a "conglomeration
> > of myths and folk tales which you have the audacity to call a religion
or
> > a God" is, to my thinking, sowing discord and intolerance that we don't
> > need here. >>
> >
> > This and Romanus's flagrant disregard for his fellow citizen's personal
> > spiritual beliefs is grounds for expulsion! I request the Senate to make
> it
> > so.

Subject:	Yule Celebrations
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:25:54 -0500 (EST)

I just wanted to share some thoughts with friends here in Nova Roma
regarding the Season, my past views of the holiday and and some
enlightening thoughts that came to mind as I was fulfilling my duties
during this hliday period out and about at dinner with my family, and in
the hours spent at home wth music from around the world.

My views of the Holiday have always been pretty conservative during this
particular holiday, I had a pretty good childhood as a kid and grew up
pretty selfish and self-centered, until the Navy took all that away, and
filled the "trunk" with other things not as cozy perhaps, but in many
ways more rewarding.

My first Christmas Eve, guarding a deserted pier, with a miserable barge
and broken ship moored thereto under the cold lights of the Walt Whitman
Bridge in a mediocre New Jersey Ciity across the Delaware River from
South Philadelphia. That was the winter of 1960, and it was 3000 miles
from home family and all that I held dear, except my small part of the
Naval Service. It was a tough year for me I had a divorce (not messy,
but damned uncomfortable and expensive) and for the first time began to
look outside myself and family for satisfaction. Over the years I have
become better and better at it (slow learner here--Caution) but I
thought this year how many of your discussions have influenced my
holiday decisions:

Christmas Tree lots do look like cemetaries and this year we bought 8
small pine cone and berry trees and put them around the house, with
candles in the window. I spent a few minutes with former live Christmas
/ Yule tree growing in my yard, last night during the years first
snowfall. I'm sure the dog thouht I was nuts!!! I must also report
that I do not have the ability to communicate with the trees yet,
but------------- I am hoping that the sigh I heard on turning away was
the first of many words to come!!!

You know that old comforter with the red, blue, orange and black blocks,
looked pretty good draped over the sofa during gift time this morning!!!

I lit some candles this morning and the whole house still smells of
vanilla and spice. Mother is boiling the ham bone with beans for
tomorrow and that smells good too. Surprising, I never noticd that
before!!!

This season we have enjoyed music without words, season music, and it
seems to fill the house with it's sound, kind of like the outdoor being
filed with the silence of falling snow, and the anmals in the woods
going about their business, deer standing in the shadow of the trees,
and a red fox just over by the the old barn across the road. Funny,
they have been here for years, wonder how I missed them????

This season an old friend and I got back together, and are planning some
fun things for the coming year. I don't know how we wandered apart, but
he E-mailed me, to tell me about the wonder of his woods in the snow,
and a walk with his dog along the frozen stream behind his house, Funny
that, if I didn't know better, I'd say I got a special present from
someone----hmmmm what I have I done different this year??????????
Nahhhhhhh, what does an intternet group have to do with
any-------------!!!????!!!!

Hmmmmm, well thanks anyway!! I had a great Saturn---uhhhhh Holiday!!!
Thought I was too old for this!! Thanks everyone!!! It was agreat
holiday, and all the gifts that I received didn't come in red wrapping
paper. May the Season be as kind to you as it has to me!!!

M. Minucius (Audens) / Jim Mathews

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:39:25 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Damianus Lucianius Dexippus;

I thank you for your most kind thoughts and comments. I consider my
aquaintance ship with you over the past few months to have been most
valuable and your observations stimulating. I shall look forward to the
next year in the company of friends like yourself. I am proud to have
the privelege of caling you friend.

Vale, My Friend

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious)
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:56:53 -0800 (PST)

> Sulla wrote ...
>
> >Dex..I dont think it would be the Senate...but the Censors...
>
> >Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
> >Praetor Urbanis - Elect
>
> >Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> >> From: Dexippus@--------
> >>
> >>
> >>This and Romanus's flagrant disregard for his fellow citizen's
personal
> >>spiritual beliefs is grounds for expulsion! I request the Senate
to make
> it
> >>so.
> >>
> >>--Dexippus
> >>
>
> What the Constitution (Art II. 4) says is that Citizenship may be
> "involuntarily revoked"
> 1. By senatus consulta
> 2. Through the judgment of a magistrate after a trial in
accordance
> with the leges Novae Romae ... (no relevant leges have yet been
> passed)
> (3. is not relevant to these facts)
> Art II. 4 also provides for an appeal to the Comitia Centuriata.
>
> Dexippus is therefore right that the matter should in the first
instance go
> to the Senate. But do you really want to make it an "accusatio",
Dex? Under
> classical roman law the accuser risked, if the accused was found not
> guilty, the penalty for the crime alleged...
>

Salvete!

Do we have the law-stuff sorted out yet though?
Could this happen yet?


> M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Ousting
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:01:36 -0800 (PST)

>
> > Come Friends, Romans and Countrymen and women, who will stand with
us
> > against tyranny and insults to we and our chosen way??
>
>
> I'm with them. If this means I get ousted instead, then so be it.
I cannot
> bear sharing my beloved Nova Roma with that man anyway. So I guess
one of us
> has to go.
>
> Crys (packiing just in case)



You NOT go!!!!!!!!
We want you here!

Noct'a

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	"A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:07:33 -0800 (PST)

Salve Audens et al!


> I suspect that the Archbishop of Canterbury, would have comment
> regarding his Church of England and the Catholic Church. LOL / LOL /
LOL

LOL yeah he probably would, but the Cathedral I sing at has an
ex-Catholic Priest as Precentor so things get 'high' now an then! LOL

Noct'a





>
> M. Municius (Audens)
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
>
> From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
>
> > Actually, Catholics are Christians. There are several sects of
> Catholicism
> > (Roman, Anglican,
>
> Actually Anglicans are Church of England - protestants.
> They just tend to be very high CofE so confusing them with Catholics
> is easy LOL
>
> >
> > Vartarius Quentius
> > www.livinghistory.org
>
> Noct'a
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: Catholicism and Christianity
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:25:25 -0800

A. Iulia wrote:

> From: "A. Iulia" iuliacaesaria@--------
>
> > Actually, Catholics are Christians. There are several sects of
> Catholicism
> > (Roman, Anglican,
>
> Actually Anglicans are Church of England - protestants.
> They just tend to be very high CofE so confusing them with Catholics
> is easy LOL
>
> >
> > Vartarius Quentius
> > www.livinghistory.org
>
> Noct'a

Actaully Noct'a, I've known a number of Anglicans and Episcoplaians (the
Yank name for the same kirk) refer to themselves as Anglo-Catholics. As
differentiated from Roman-Catholics.

Ericius
(who is married to a nominal one)