| Subject: |
Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious) |
| From: |
michael marconi mdm8@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:49:39 -0500 |
|
HERETIC! YOU BLASPHAMOUS CHRISTIAN SCUM! HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE GODS!?
One of these days we shall hunt down your kind and crucify you as we did
thousands of years ago. You WILL pay for your crimes against the Gods!
-----Original Message-----
From: michael marconi [mailto:mdm8@--------]
Sent: Friday, December 25, 1998 8:13 PM
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Subject: [novaroma] Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are
blasphamious
Salvete!
I demand that Juan Correa's NR citizenship be stripped away from him on
the grounds that he knowingly and willfully threatened death to all the
NR Christian citizens. If I am stripped of my citizenship so should
Correa. I never threatened to kill, as he did and still does, the
citizenry. My interest lie in saving a few souls whiles is the
purposeful act of murdering citizens---- big difference!!!! If anyone
could be considered a threat --it is he. I as a Christian and as a
citizen don't take death threats lightly.
JUAN CORREA IS A REAL DANGER AND MOST GO!!!!
From: michael marconi mdm8@--------
Salvete!
I remember all the negative e-mails that flooded the mailing list when
I spoke, less than enthusiastically, about pagan Gods and morality. Many
of you so-called pagans blatantly attacked all my issues and especially
those which dealt anything that resembled or concerned your various
God(s). Many of the same individuals are now the perpetrators of these
anti Christian e-mails. Apparently you most believe that it is perfectly
all right for to bash Christianity, and at the same time too hell with
those that show displeasure in your conglomeration of myths and folk
tales which you have the audacity to call a religion or a God. AT LEAST
JESUS HAD WALKED THE EARTH AND HAD PERFORMED DOCUMENTED MIRACLES- you
surly could not say likewise for the likes of Thor, Poseidon, Mercury,
Diana..
If your looking for the one and true God than I highly advise you to
put away your old foolishness and pride and turn your hearts towards the
traditional Catholic latin mass- not the new/modern mass of post Vatican
II. Than you will more than likely, as I have, experience the truth. God
is far greater than any of your false deities. And the magic in praying
to the Saints, performing the church rituals and prayers is far greater
than any witchcraft, pagan rituals... It is just a sad fact that very
few Catholics now know of the full potential that radiates via the
church which itself is nurtured by God's grace.
HARD SAYINGS
One of the most common charges against the Christian Right is that
it's not "truly" Christian. Liberals call the Christian Right harsh,
intolerant, judgmental, puritanical, eager to impose its views on
others, and generally opposed to the spirit of Jesus.
If Jesus were here, we are told, he would be gentle, nonjudgmental,
and pluralistic, on the side of civil rights, gay rights and the
welfare state; he would abhor the negativism of those who profess to
speak in his name.
Unfortunately, the Jesus of the Gospels bears no resemblance to this
nice liberal Jesus. Liberals would find him downright un-Christian.
Pluralism? Jesus claimed to be "the light of the world" and "the
bread of life." He said things like this: "You are from beneath; I am
from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." He told
his enemies: "You are from your father the devil."
Jesus warned his disciples: "He who loves father or mother more than
me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me
is not worthy of me. And he who will not take up his cross and follow
me is not worthy of me."
Can't we all just get along? Isn't being nice what Christianity is
all about? "Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth; I
came to bring not peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man at
odds with his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the
daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. And a man's enemies will
be those of his own household."
As for the idea that Jesus would be indulgent toward private acts
between consenting adults, it was consent itself that he condemned:
"Whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery
with her in his heart." You can't get much more puritanical than
that!
"So if your hand or your foot offends you, cut them off, and throw
them away," he said. "And if your eye offends you, tear it out and
throw it away."
Tolerance? He told his apostles: "And whoever will not receive you,
nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake
the dust off your feet; truly I say to you, it shall be more
tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment
than for that city."
He also warned that "of every idle word that men speak, they shall
give account on the day of judgment." Time and again he said things
liberals would find, well, severely disappointing: "The Son of Man
shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom
all things that offend, and them who do iniquity, and shall cast them
into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
" "The angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the
just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire." "Whoever offends
one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for
him if a millstone were hung about his neck and if he were drowned in
the depths of the sea."
One trembles to say it, but all in all, Jesus probably wouldn't
qualify for membership in People for the American Way. The Christian
Right is at least much more in his style. Many of his sayings were so
stern and frightening that they drove away his weaker disciples:
"This is a hard saying," they would mutter; "who can accept it?"
They are still hard sayings. They were necessary because Jesus had
come to warn men that their souls were in danger, in need of
repentance and redemption.
After 2,000 years, Jesus is still hated. That may be the best clue to
what he was and is; nobody today hates Julius Caesar. Caesar doesn't
trouble you about your soul.
But those who hate Jesus don't say so openly; they merely profess to
admire a watered-down edition of his message, without the hard
sayings.
It comes down to this: Do we have souls, or not? If not, no problem.
But what if we do?
Valete!
Lucius Marconius Romanus
---
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|
| Subject: |
Darn!!!! |
| From: |
michael marconi mdm8@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:12:04 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
One my reply, about Juan Corrae too the NR list, Corrae's name and
pertinent info did not carry over. But, if you look at the original
mailing date and too whom it was sent, it is clear that it was sent too
me, by Corrae, on Christmas using his e-mail address. Corrae is a
threat to all the citizens. I wish to save souls while he threatens to
kill the Christian citizens of NR. He is a clear and present danger and
as such he must loss his citizenship!
Valete
Lucius Marconius -Romanus
|
| Subject: |
Apology |
| From: |
michael marconi mdm8@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:28:17 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
It is true that much of what I had said was often derogatory, or
taken for such, and in a manner that was unbecoming a Roman. But, I was
sickened by the barrage of attacks against Christianity which had
occurred in the last couple of months. These attacks ranged from the
sublime, too ridiculing, too vile attacks upon the Pope and the Vatican.
My response to the said attacks was one of fury and vice. My choice of
word usage was often wrong or misunderstood -and for which I am deeply
saddened. I apologize! I have no ill content for any citizen of NR. Juan
Corrae words, like my own, were said in the heat of anger. Often when
one's anger is his driving force the brain ceases to function and the
mouth takes over.
Valete!
Lucius Marconius Romanus
Fortuna fortibus favet.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> Please send me the e-mail privately...
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quaestor
> Praetor Urbanis - Elect
|
| Subject: |
Re: Catholicism and Christianity |
| From: |
Pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:35:09 +0000 |
|
A. Iulia wrote:
> LOL well in Brit, they'd not like to be referred to as Catholics!
>
Actually Nocta, the Anglican Church is a "Catholic" and not a protestant
church. This is because it is "Sacramental" and not based on "preaching"
as the protestant churches are.
You will see this definition on all the official Anglican websites.
Lets continue this by email as I think it is probably off topic!!
Yours in the Religio!!, Pythia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fwd: [NRBack_Alley] Welcome to <a href="mailto:NRBack_Alley@--------" >NRBack_Alley@--------</a> |
| From: |
Nodigio@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:24:36 EST |
|
In a message dated 12/27/98 5:17:29 PM Central Standard Time,
M--------2Two@-------- writes:
> So if you want to kid around about invading the Vatican or joke about
> Bondage.....let me know and I'll add you on. If you offend
easially.....don'
> t
> even ask.
Add me!!!! I've left lists that insist I speak with politically correct
Christian women's submissiveness - and I've NEVER been that!
Ancient and Decrepit Roman Shintoist
Secunda Floria Zonara
|
| Subject: |
Re: Gladius |
| From: |
Mater2Two@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:38:14 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 20:26:01 EST, you write:
> Really My dear, can the slicing of onions compare with that!!!!!!!!!<G>
> (-: (-: (-;
>
::::snigger:::::: Depends on how ya slice em!!!!!
Crys (violently attacking an onion as if it were.....ummmm....an enemy of the
state!!!) PLEASE NOTE THAT THE PREVIOUS THREAT WAS AGAINST AN ONION AND NO
PARTICULAR ONION!!!!!!!! SHOULD ANY ONIONS SUBSCRIBED TO THIS LIST BE
OFFENDED I WILL VOLUNTAIRALLY REVOKE MY OWN CITIZENSHIP!!!!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Apology |
| From: |
Mater2Two@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:38:08 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 20:16:11 EST, you write:
> :HUH???? I remember someone talking about rading the Vatican and throwing
> the
> :Pope out, but *I* didn't think they were serious.
> :
> And how did you surmise that these posts were not serious? Did you not
> think that they might offend someone?
I am no shrink, but I think anyone who takes a "dropped after 2 days" post
about raiding the Vatican seriously may seriously need to consider medication.
How did I surmise it? There was talk of invading the VATICAN and throwing out
the POPE!!!!! HELLO!!!! This is somehow humanly possible?? The Pope has, I
do believe, one less bodyguard than Michael Jackson. Michael is easier to
approach too.
Crys (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either)
|
| Subject: |
Who's Billy Jean? was Re: Apology |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:41:05 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 12/28/98 1:39:01 AM EST, M--------2Two@-------- writes:
<< (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either) >>
Salve!
Who by the gods is Billy Jean and why is he on this list?
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Who's Billy Jean? was Re: Apology |
| From: |
Mater2Two@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:28:43 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-28 02:41:22 EST, you write:
> << (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either) >>
> Salve!
>
> Who by the gods is Billy Jean and why is he on this list?
>
> Q. Fabius
I am going to assume your kidding, but will explain anyway.
In that very post I made reference to Michael Jackson (light dawning yet?) who
sang a song about Billy Jean (yet?) not being his lover, just a girl who
clained that he was the one, but the kid was not his son (yet??).
Crys (suddenly feeling quite old -- I remember when Michael Jackson was black)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Jesus and the Liberals( or those that are blasphamious) |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:17:27 -0500 |
|
> Dexippus is therefore right that the matter should in the first
instance go
> to the Senate. But do you really want to make it an "accusatio",
Dex? Under
> classical roman law the accuser risked, if the accused was found not
> guilty, the penalty for the crime alleged...
>
Salvete!
Do we have the law-stuff sorted out yet though?
Could this happen yet?
> M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
Noct'a
Hi Ho! I'm not properly habituated to using the expression tags yet. The
remark about accusatio should have ended with a :) or perhaps a ;) since it
was meant to be a sort of joke (though thinking further about it it's too
lawyerish to be very funny to nonlawyers anyhow...:))
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Senate's address was Patrician Status |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:15:38 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
>From: LSergAust@--------
>
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>[snip]
I could have sworn that Sulla responded to you. Oh well, my memory is not
what it used to be.
>>
>>Then why don't you write the Senate instead of the Mail-list first?
>Because I don't know any other way to address the Senate than through
>this list. If there is a posted email address for mailing the Senate,
>then I confess to have missed it. Please point me to it.
Is--------it se--------@--------? I wrote to them usi--------hat address a-------- did
receive a response.
>
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ousting |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:43:40 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 20:16:05 EST, you write:
<< Salvete Dexippe et alii
How about putting him on trial and deleting his posts until it's resolved?
>>
That again is sweeping the issue under the rug. He is in clear violation on
two accounts on two seperate occassions and needs to be removed like a cancer.
EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius vs.Fannius my view Olivia now StarTRek |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:57:13 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 22:46:40 EST, you write:
<< ohh will wonders never cease!! Nova Roma covers it all...
(Hope I didn''t offend any Trekkers ) >>
I am most offended! LOL...only kidding...
Can you e-mail me privately about this Starfleet International? Do they allow
Romulans?
I'd be most interested in further information.
--Dexippus
D'ahmin L'uciehn D'exipeh (Romulan Guard)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:59:38 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 23:33:17 EST, you write:
<< Wrong venue -- the Senate is not a court. Marconius must stand trial.
>>
I would be most interested to learn where in the Constitution a call for trial
is ordered. It is my understanding that cases of such are handled by the
Senate and the Censors.
EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius'Catholic post |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:02:49 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 23:33:31 EST, you write:
<< Marconius is a citizen who was publically threatened by Fannius.
Marconius has a right to charge Fannius. It is not for you or for me to
say what will be done about it. I fully expect that the magistrates who
are responsible for dealing with it will deal with it. We can certainly
express our opinions about it, and I think we have both done so. >>
Marconius may have been threatened by Fannius but he is in no right to call
for his expulsion when he himself is in clear violation of two accounts of our
Constitution on more than one occassion.
Marconius must not be allowed to point toward Fannius' post in defense of
himself anymore than Fannius must be allowed to use Marconius' posts to defend
his actions. These are seperate issues which will be decided upon by our
officials.
EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:03:45 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-27 23:35:16 EST, you write:
<< Now I only hope that we
handle it legally instead of by a lynching. >>
No one is lynching. He violated the constitution which is grounds for
citizenship revocation. Let it be so.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Apology |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:06:26 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-28 01:39:23 EST, you write:
<< How did I surmise it? There was talk of invading the VATICAN and throwing
out
the POPE!!!!! HELLO!!!! This is somehow humanly possible?? The Pope has, I
do believe, one less bodyguard than Michael Jackson. Michael is easier to
approach too.
Crys (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either) >>
Correction...Michael Jackson has two more bodyguards than the Pope!
And I had Billy's Jeans....they're not all that!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Back Alley |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:09:34 EST |
|
Hey Crys,
I got an e-mail telling me that I have been unsubscribed to the Back Alley
list?
What's the deal? Too much letting the flood gates loose?
PUT ME BACK ON THAT LIST DOLL!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ousting |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:24:29 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
I suggested-
> How about putting him on trial and deleting his posts until it's resolved?
> >>
>
To which you replied-
>That again is sweeping the issue under the rug. He is in clear violation
on
>two accounts on two seperate occassions and needs to be removed like a
cancer.
Hold on a moment, please Dexippe. Putting someone on trial is hardly
"sweeping (their violations/crimes) under the rug"; it is preserving the
rights of every civis to due process. Until the matter is resolved legally,
you may get some relief by filtering out his messages. The filtration is
not the final solution to the problem, only a means of temporary relief.
I think that you have done all that you can do about Romanus: you, among
other cives, have accused him of violating our basic law; Senator, Praetor
Urbanus and Consul-elect Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus has already stated
intention to do something with respect to Romanus that will result in the
latter's exile.
I agree that he violated Article VI paragraph 1 on 12.24.98. I do not
understand, however, how or by whom you are calling for this "cancer" to be
removed.
Maybe the scream at the bottom of this message is like a virtual bumper
sticker?
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
>
>--Dexippus
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:35:16 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
The following is from Article II, paragraph 4 of the NR Constitution:
Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked, with no refunding of taxes or
other fees heretofore paid, through one of several means, all of which may
be appealed to the Comitia Centuriata if desired:
a) By Senatus consulta;
b) Through the judgement of a magistrate, after a trial in accordance with
the leges Novae Romae in which the individual has been found guilty of a
crime that warrants such punishment; and,
c) Through the summary judgement of a magistrate, after having been
witnessed committing a felony (as defined by the civil authority) by that
magistrate at an event sponsored by Nova Roma.
-------------------------------------------
We can safely eliminate 'c', as that refers to a violation of the 'law of
the land', not Nova Roma's law. Romanus has not done that, neither as far
as I have observed nor going by accusations leveled at him in this forum
(unless a magistrate wanted to exile someone for plagiarism; somehow I dont
think that would be a good precedent)
So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. I think that the latter course
would be more appropriate, because Romanus is a private citizen who
allegedly violated our law. He is not, let us say, a Consul who has nearly
destroyed our organization and whose presence poses an immediate threat to
our continued existence as a group.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>I would be most interested to learn where in the Constitution a call for
trial
>is ordered. It is my understanding that cases of such are handled by the
>Senate and the Censors.
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!
>
>--Dexippus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Apology |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:37:16 -0800 |
|
Crys makes a good point here that no one mentioned with all
the talk about "what Fannius said". Though one of our sidewalk lawyers
did put forward the key words..."credible threat".
Talk storming the Vatican is not a credible threat
(even if there were agreement, which there is NOT).
NR pogrom of Christians is not a credible threat
(even if there were agreement, which there Most Certainly is NOT).
C. Aelius Ericius
M--------2Two@-------- wrote:
> From: M--------2Two@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-12-27 20:16:11 EST, you write:
>
> > :HUH???? I remember someone talking about rading the Vatican and throwing
> > the
> > :Pope out, but *I* didn't think they were serious.
> > :
> > And how did you surmise that these posts were not serious? Did you not
> > think that they might offend someone?
>
> I am no shrink, but I think anyone who takes a "dropped after 2 days" post
> about raiding the Vatican seriously may seriously need to consider medication.
>
> How did I surmise it? There was talk of invading the VATICAN and throwing out
> the POPE!!!!! HELLO!!!! This is somehow humanly possible?? The Pope has, I
> do believe, one less bodyguard than Michael Jackson. Michael is easier to
> approach too.
>
> Crys (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Who's Billy Jean? was Re: Apology |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:41:48 -0800 |
|
M--------2Two@-------- wrote:
> From: M--------2Two@--------
>
> In a message dated 98-12-28 02:41:22 EST, you write:
>
> > << (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either) >>
> > Salve!
> >
> > Who by the gods is Billy Jean and why is he on this list?
> >
> > Q. Fabius
>
> I am going to assume your kidding, but will explain anyway.
>
> In that very post I made reference to Michael Jackson (light dawning yet?) who
> sang a song about Billy Jean (yet?) not being his lover, just a girl who
> clained that he was the one, but the kid was not his son (yet??).
I do not know what you are talking about. And for that I render profound thanks to
all of my Gods and Goddesses (and some of indeterminate gender orientation).
> Crys (suddenly feeling quite old -- I remember when Michael Jackson was black)
I remember when Michael was a little kid the family used of the cute touch. But I
wasn't too aware of them then, it was just a bunch of voices coming over an old
radio.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Back Alley |
| From: |
Mater2Two@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:55:37 EST |
|
Dex love it should be fixed!! I have NO idea what happened.
Crys (who's changing ISP's and will let everyone know when I am all set to rid
myself of AOL)
|
| Subject: |
interesting quote |
| From: |
Cheri Scotch CheriS@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:23:24 -0500 |
|
A wise quote from true Renaissance man, Steve Allen, which may be useful for
most of us:
"No philosophy, sadly, has all the answers. No matter how assured we may be
about certain aspects of our belief, there are always painful
inconsistencies, exceptions, and contradictions. This is as true in religion
as it is in politics, and is self-evident to all except fanatics and the
naive....My own belief in God, then, is just that -- a matter of belief, not
knowledge."
Pagan, Christian, Moslem, Jew, whatever... we'll just never know for sure,
will we? I guess that's why they call it FAITH rather than FACT..
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius vs.Fannius my view Olivia now StarTRek |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:44:14 -0500 (EST) |
|
I too would be interested in Star Fleet information.
Former Commander, D-5 Klingon Cruiser
Klinoth-"The Shadow"
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:55:36 -0500 (EST) |
|
I certainy hope that all Nova Romans working so hard to protect the
rights of the sbject plan in the near future to devote as much attenton
(or more) to helping those whom his vile words attacked and made so
nervous as to even consider leaving this protecting vale.
I agree that he has obviously and with deliberation violated our
constitution and has given no convincing argument why he should not be
penalized, The document is clear, the violation was for all to see,and
the creature has admitted to his folly and his true intention.
I recommend that the lawyers among us concentrate upon erecting those
aspecs of the Constittion still lacking and let the Senate pronounce
sentence. My recommendation is banishment!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor - Elect
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:26:30 -0500 (EST) |
|
And he did it more than once, which is certainly indicative of intent.
He provoked those of folk who dwell here to consider fright and flight,
and admitted what he had done and his reason, which for many Nova Romans
is more worrisome than his original efforts.
I have told you his clear intentions and that of the priests who support
him and their feeling for you!!!! Let the Plebian Tribunes defend him
if they can. I recommend no trial, as the crime was heinius to those
who have sought refuge within Nova Roma from religious persecution. I
am not Pagan in belief, but I respect the Gods of the Romans and the
other beliefs herein, and believe that each person must choose his own
gods, because on the pedestal of death and only then may the real truth
be believed, and to my mind, all will be judged by the face of their
gods, but how one's life was lived and one's Strength of Faith will tell
the story.
This creature would have you in his hands, not for your benefir but for
his. Let the Senate act to rid him from among you as a continuing
threat. His kind will never be content until he has forced his way upon
some one, and then call it a victory, and an excuse to continue.
Let the Senate act!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor-Elect
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:30:08 -0500 (EST) |
|
Wrong word!!!!!!! Marconius "may" stand trial. The Senate decides, and
no one else!!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor - Elect
Military Tribune
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
my view Olivia now StarTRek |
| From: |
Asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:58:02 EST |
|
Since so many have asked for information about Stafleet. Ihave the web site
address fro you. It is a large site that should be able to answer any of your
questions. Starfleet has a large following on the east coast and Atlantic
seaboard! Oh you lucky people!!
In service to Nova Roma and its people- Olivia
<a href="http://www.sfi.org/" target="_top" >http://www.sfi.org/</a>
|
| Subject: |
Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:04:36 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Merullus wrote,
>So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
>(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. I think that the latter
course
>would be more appropriate, because Romanus is a private citizen who
>allegedly violated our law. He is not, let us say, a Consul who has
nearly
>destroyed our organization and whose presence poses an immediate threat to
>our continued existence as a group.
I think the problem with this course of action is that we would need to set
up a Quaestio (criminal court) and its procedure under Leges Novae Romae:
"after a trial in accordance with the leges Novae Romae in which the
individual has been found guilty of a
crime that warrants such punishment". To do that we have to get the
Comitiae up and running (which we're still waiting for the Censors to sort
out) to pass the Leges (which haven't yet been drafted, let alone
discussed). Now it's true that we need to do this as soon as possible
anyhow! But in this case (revocation of citizenship) the Constitution
itself does provide for action by the Senate, with a right of appeal to the
Comitia Centuriata. I think that's appropriate, as long as the Senate acts
judicially, i.e. gives a hearing to both Marconius and his accusers. It
would only be "lynch law" (L. Sergius Aust.'s expression) if (a) we didn't
follow the Constitution, or (b) the body which decides didn't give a proper
hearing to both sides.
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:23:29 -0500 |
|
Salvete Scaevola et alii
>From: Mike Ma--------r MikeMa--------r@--------
>>
>Merullus wrote,
>
>>So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
>>(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. I think that the latter
>course
>>would be more appropriate, because Romanus is a private citizen who
>>allegedly violated our law. He is not, let us say, a Consul who has
>nearly
>>destroyed our organization and whose presence poses an immediate threat to
>>our continued existence as a group.
>
>I think the problem with this course of action is that we would need to set
>up a Quaestio (criminal court) and its procedure under Leges Novae Romae:
>"after a trial in accordance with the leges Novae Romae in which the
>individual has been found guilty of a
>crime that warrants such punishment".
Leges Novae Romae consist of all NR's laws, right? Including the
Constitution? I do not think that a paucity of laws should prevent
conducting a trial; the Praetor will have the relevant articles of the
Constitution (as far as I understand, this is VI, 1., although others have
found at least one other pertinent article) to follow.
To do that we have to get the
>Comitiae up and running (which we're still waiting for the Censors to sort
>out) to pass the Leges (which haven't yet been drafted, let alone
>discussed). Now it's true that we need to do this as soon as possible
>anyhow!
I think that it is overly optimistic to believe that sound laws will be
drafted, discussed and ratified as a result of debate and abstraction. I
might have misunderstood what you have written, but my interpretation is
that the sum of our body of law must exist in writing before anyone can be
tried for any offense. I do not think that this is a realistic expectation
(if it is what you meant).
If it is of any interest, I do know that the comitia centuriata has at least
once cast a vote here in Nova Roma. Who assembled it? Germanicus or
Iulianus? I do not know but would like to know. If it was done once, it
can probably be done again, and I would think more quickly at that.
But in this case (revocation of citizenship) the Constitution
>itself does provide for action by the Senate, with a right of appeal to the
>Comitia Centuriata. I think that's appropriate, as long as the Senate acts
>judicially, i.e. gives a hearing to both Marconius and his accusers. It
>would only be "lynch law" (L. Sergius Aust.'s expression) if (a) we didn't
>follow the Constitution, or (b) the body which decides didn't give a proper
>hearing to both sides.
This last is a very good point, and hopefully one which the Senate will heed
when it takes this matter into its august hands. I still would rather see a
trial though. I think that it would be an appropriate means to resolve this
matter, would protect all citizens' right to due process, and may provide an
immediate impetus to our establishing the courts and laws.
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Marconius |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:23:29 EST |
|
>Wrong word!!!!!!! Marconius "may" stand trial. The Senate decides, and
>no one else!!!!
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>Quaestor - Elect
>Military Tribune
You, Sir, are certainly entitled to your opinion. Nowhere is it written
that the Senate decides. The Senate may deliberate and issue a
recommendation. It is appealable to the Comitia. Who died and made you a
god, that you should decide who decides and who doesn't?
from another of your posts:
>He provoked those of folk who dwell here to consider fright and flight,
Fright and flight??? Isn't this sort of rhetoric just a little bit silly?
Marconius' conduct is a serious matter, but let's try to keep at least a
tenuous grip on reality here, shall we? Is this a continuation of the
fantasy posts that obfuscated the recent election campaign?
>I certainy hope that all Nova Romans working so hard to protect the
>rights of the sbject plan in the near future to devote as much attenton
>(or more) to helping those whom his vile words attacked and made so
>nervous as to even consider leaving this protecting vale.
He attacked ALL of us verbally. No-one was injured and no-one with a
modicum of sense was "frightened." In calling for orderly, lawful
disposition of the matter, we are protecting the institutions of the
State. If he is "lynched" by mob acclamation without due process, I (and
probably others with good sense) will certainly consider leaving.
I have suggested before that Nova Roma will be what the citizens make it.
If we are to make it a place run by mob mentality and mob "justice," then
I will have no need for it.
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?) |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:23:32 EST |
|
Agreed, fully. Either course of action requires that the Comitia
Centuriata be functional. Steps short of revocation of citizenship could
be taken in the meantime. But let's get real -- nobody is endangered by
Marconius' obnoxious and blasphemous postings. This is not a national
emergency. There is no need for the hysteria some citizens seem to want
to indulge themselves in. He could be instructed by a Consul to refrain
from posting until trial. Or citizens could just choose to quit reading
and responding to his posts. We could all agree to "silence" him in this
list. There's a lot that can be done without pretending that the sky is
falling.
Please, people!
L. Sergius Aust.
>From: Mike Ma--------r MikeMa--------r@--------
>
>Salvete omnes,
>
>Merullus wrote,
>
>>So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
>>(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. I think that the latter
>course
>>would be more appropriate, because Romanus is a private citizen who
>>allegedly violated our law. He is not, let us say, a Consul who has
>nearly
>>destroyed our organization and whose presence poses an immediate threat to
>>our continued existence as a group.
>
>I think the problem with this course of action is that we would need to set
>up a Quaestio (criminal court) and its procedure under Leges Novae Romae:
>"after a trial in accordance with the leges Novae Romae in which the
>individual has been found guilty of a
>crime that warrants such punishment". To do that we have to get the
>Comitiae up and running (which we're still waiting for the Censors to sort
>out) to pass the Leges (which haven't yet been drafted, let alone
>discussed). Now it's true that we need to do this as soon as possible
>anyhow! But in this case (revocation of citizenship) the Constitution
>itself does provide for action by the Senate, with a right of appeal to the
>Comitia Centuriata. I think that's appropriate, as long as the Senate acts
>judicially, i.e. gives a hearing to both Marconius and his accusers. It
>would only be "lynch law" (L. Sergius Aust.'s expression) if (a) we didn't
>follow the Constitution, or (b) the body which decides didn't give a proper
>hearing to both sides.
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
in ullam rem ne properemus.
(Let's not rush into anything.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: An end to Marconius |
| From: |
m--------oon m--------oon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:03:56 -0500 |
|
LSergAust@-------- wrote:
>
> From: LSergAust@--------
>
> Agreed, fully. Either course of action requires that the Comitia
> Centuriata be functional. Steps short of revocation of citizenship could
> be taken in the meantime. But let's get real -- nobody is endangered by
> Marconius' obnoxious and blasphemous postings.
And as long as we're getting real...when was the last time we heard from
Marconius, relative to the many, many posts about him? He seems to have
gone into self-exile, perhaps back to the TradCaths for more religious
tracts, I don't know. But he hasn't been here, and until he does show up
-- if he ever does -- let's just drop the entire thing. The Senate is
doing it's job and so will the rest of the new magistrates who will be
taking office.
Enough of Marconius. We're working ourselves up into a lather over
someone who may not even be worth the trouble. Let's get back to the
interesting stuff! Like what everyone got for Saturnalia...
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Onions |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:15:54 EST |
|
Salvete,
> Crys (violently attacking an onion as if it were.....ummmm....an enemy of
the
> state!!!) PLEASE NOTE THAT THE PREVIOUS THREAT WAS AGAINST AN
> ONION AND NO PARTICULAR ONION!!!!!!!! SHOULD ANY ONIONS
> SUBSCRIBED TO THIS LIST BE OFFENDED I WILL VOLUNTAIRALLY
> REVOKE MY OWN CITIZENSHIP!!!!!!
I have been hired to represent a small consortium of onions and onion
sympathizers who wish to dispell a common misconception. Onions, contrary to
popular opinion, are inveterate masochists. They love nothing so much as to
be chopped, minced, or diced for culinary or other reasons. The only way to
offend an onion is to threaten to mangle it and then fail to go through with
the deed.
I hope that clears things up a bit. As an aside, the onions also want me to
air the fact that they also enjoy silk stockings, black leather, and being
rubbed on the soles of human feet.
Valete,
T. Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Onions |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:25:29 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-28 19:16:54 EST, you write:
> I have been hired to represent a small consortium of onions and onion
> sympathizers who wish to dispell a common misconception. Onions, contrary
> to
> popular opinion, are inveterate masochists. They love nothing so much as
to
> be chopped, minced, or diced for culinary or other reasons. The only way
to
> offend an onion is to threaten to mangle it and then fail to go through
with
> the deed.
> I hope that clears things up a bit. As an aside, the onions also want me
> to
> air the fact that they also enjoy silk stockings, black leather, and being
> rubbed on the soles of human feet.
>
> Valete,
> T. Labienus Fortunatus
Gee thanks!! I will NEVER look at an onion the same way again!!!!
Crys
|
| Subject: |
Re: An end to Marconius |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:29:02 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnes Cives
>The Senate is doing it's job and so will the rest of the new magistrates
who will be
>taking office.
>
>Let's get back to the interesting stuff! Like what everyone got for
Saturnalia...
>-- Flavia Claudia
I got a nice bronze bowl from my 'uxor' and we got a scanner from my Mother
in Law, so I can forward pictures for updating the webite. And I gave Vergil
a really cool Tonka Truck "Rumm.... Rumm...!" ( he now has 3 different
ones ) which he really likes and Naomi got lots of nice clothes ( she is the
only fashion bug in the house ) so she happy too. And we got some snow which
made the kids happy too.
all in all a nice time was had by all.
Valete, L Equitius
|
| Subject: |
Re: An end to Marconius |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:50:24 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-28 19:06:04 EST, you write:
> And as long as we're getting real...when was the last time we heard from
> Marconius, relative to the many, many posts about him? He seems to have
> gone into self-exile, perhaps back to the TradCaths for more religious
> tracts, I don't know.
He 'self-exiled' himself for a while the last time. This time may be longer.
Before he resurfaces to 'save' us again who knows? He might get 20 or 30 of
his friends to join Nova Roma and help. OH BOY!!!! I can hardly wait!!!
Heck, by this time next year we will be a good ol fashioned Christian
orginization, all of us on our knees and bowing before the ONE true God.
Crys (trying to remember the Hail Martha so I'll be prepared next time)
|
| Subject: |
On the road |
| From: |
Mega--------bin--------amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:29:30 -0600 |
|
Salus et Fortuna Omnes!
I'll be offline about 10 days. My wife and I are headed to the
Springfield, Mass. area to visit family.
A last word from me on the Marconnius vis Fannius debate. I don't like
prosletyzing, especially with hardcore, plagerized material. I don't
like credible, physical threats. Both men have admitted to what they
have done. I am not so sanguine about Marconnius. I believe that
Fannius presented a heartfelt apology, for a first offense.
But, having sent a more detailed expression of opinion to the Senate and
Consuls, I now plead for using Concordia's servant - Deletus - to the
full extent of his abilities versus posts which offend. Let the
Magistracy take the necessary steps, they are men and women of sense and
intelligence.
I wish One and All the Blessings of All Holy Ones with the turning of
the year!
See you on the flipside of midnight!
Valete - Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Saturnalia goodies |
| From: |
m--------oon m--------oon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:17:39 -0500 |
|
Lucius wrote:
>
>
> I got a nice bronze bowl from my 'uxor' and we got a scanner from my Mother
> in Law, so I can forward pictures for updating the webite.
Wayhay! NICE presents, especially the scanner! As a confirmed Geek, I
have to know...what kinda scanner? And what software? I have about 5
different paint/photo programs and use all of 'em.
And I gave Vergil
> a really cool Tonka Truck "Rumm.... Rumm...!" ( he now has 3 different
> ones ) which he really likes and Naomi got lots of nice clothes ( she is the
> only fashion bug in the house ) so she happy too.
They're still at the toy stage. Enjoy it while you can and when you
think about ten or twelve years ahead, be afraid...be very afraid!
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: An end to Marconius |
| From: |
m--------oon m--------oon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:22:18 -0500 |
|
M--------2Two@-------- wrote:
> Before he resurfaces to 'save' us again who knows? He might get 20 or 30 of
> his friends to join Nova Roma and help. OH BOY!!!! I can hardly wait!!!
> Heck, by this time next year we will be a good ol fashioned Christian
> orginization, all of us on our knees and bowing before the ONE true God.
>
It'll never happen. For one thing, the Christian and Jewish members of
this list wouldn't stand for it. For another..would you guys just sit
tight and let the Senate and Magistrates do our jobs? Yer givin'
yerselves coronaries worrying about what MIGHT happen.
What's the Latin for "just chill"?
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Saturnalia goodies |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:34:55 EST |
|
In a message dated 98-12-28 21:19:42 EST, you write:
> They're still at the toy stage. Enjoy it while you can and when you
> think about ten or twelve years ahead, be afraid...be very afraid!
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
<SNORT> Several gifts to Ter were computer books and a program called Talking
Babysitter. I left the room one day, was gone a full 2 minutes and she had
opened 4 programs and rearranged my desktop!!!!!!!
Crys (My daughter is possssed with the evil spirit of Bill Gates)
|
| Subject: |
Just Chill, Ya'll |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:31:31 -0500 |
|
>> What's the Latin for "just chill"?
>>
>> -- Flavia Claudia
Modo Frigus, Omnes
|
| Subject: |
Re: Yule Celebrations(reports from around the globe) |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:01:16 -0500 |
|
>Salvete Olivia et alii
>:From: Asseri@--------
>:
>: Oh what a nice post! SO did any body get any Roman theme gifts like I
>did!
>:I got the movie "fall of the Roman Empire"
>
>Cool movie. Sophia Loren, right?
>
>:An old book call "A History of Rome to 565 ad" printed in 1925 by Arthur
>e.r.
>:Boak Ph.D.
>
>Please check back with us and let us know your imressions of the book.
>
>I received two different translations of Caesar's De Gallico Bello, from the
>same friend. He knows that I am into Rome, and he is much more knowledgable
>about American and modern than classical history, and so the two different
>titles tricked him. The upshot of this is, he may be persuaded to exchange
>one of the books, and come with me to Shoenof's Foreign Bookstore in
>Cambridge to pick up a Latin text.
>
>Valete
>
I received a sconcelike piece of statuary of a Diana-tye deity. It's quite
lovely and was bestowed upon me by beloved other half. He picked it up for
me while he was in Florida the week before Yule. It's super cool! I also
received from him "the Books of Occult Philosophy" by Cornelius Agrippa (a
Lewellyn publication), "A Kitchen Witch's Cookbook" by Patricia Telesco (an
author that I thoroughly enjoy), and a candle of protection made by a
genuine Strega (it's got lots of nifty herbs in it and a stone at the
bottom). I also got some nifty incense that I really like.
For myself I purchased a translation of Horace's Odes published in 1894.
For the record, if any of my fellow citizens desires an out-of-print or
rare book of a particular title, I do book searches. I'm starting up a
small business doing that among other things as we speak.
I hope everyone is doing well.
Vale and Bright Blessings,
Orbianna
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------
proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon
"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704
|
| Subject: |
Re: Trees was Yule Celebrations |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:19:55 -0500 |
|
At 21:06 26/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Salvete Luci Equiti et alii
>
>: We have not had a Tree in our house for more years than I remember. I
>:like to see them growing rather than tossed out all brown and dead.
>: Vale L Equitius
I'd like to take a moment to relay my experiences as of recent in relation
to this topic. I have a big problem with the mass mutilation of trees for
no practical reason, so when someone (I'm sorry I can't remember who)
posted that Kill a Tree for Christ song to the list, I took a fancy to it.
I sent it to a number of my "pagan" friends and was surprisingly met with
great venom in response by a couple of the recipients. They're city folks
(much as I consider myself to be as well as of recent), and they have this
ridiculous impression that X-mas trees are cut off the tops of really large
trees that will grow back in two years. <laughs a lot> I'd never even heard
of this concept until I moved into the city, and ironically, I used to live
in Indiana, Pa which is known as the "X-mas tree capital of the world."
Those trees don't get large enough to yield 6ft tall trees as merely there
"tops." I even asked a local X-mas tree seller about the issue. He had
never heard of it either.
I just thought I'd share this with the rest of you since none of you
reacted so vehemently against the original "Kill a Tree For Christ" post.
My parents had a real tree in their house, and I stayed with them for a few
days last week. Those trees die a slow death. They dry out and the needles
fall off, no matter how much water you give it. It's a real shame.
I'm thinking of doing what Flavia did and get a growing tree that can be
decorated for any holiday for which I care to decorate. I really liked that
idea.
Well that's my two cents. Thanks for listening.
Vale and Bright Blessings,
Orbianna
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------
proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon
"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704
|
| Subject: |
Re: An apology |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:35:42 -0500 |
|
Salve Dives,
I accept your apology, but something needs to be addressed with respect to
this. I know I reacted harshly as well, though not the same degree. We all
need to make sure that when we respond to a post that infuriates us or
angers us to any degree that we take a few moments to calm down first,
perhaps get a cup of hot cocoa and ponder our desired actions a bit, as
well as the retribution of those actions. There's still the Three-fold Law
to consider. Perhaps even if we just write out a response and not send it
right away, but reread it later on to make sure it is indeed what we wish
others to hear. Does this sound like a feasible idea to anyone else?
At 00:52 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
&--------rom: "Juan Correa" --------@--------
>
>After having time to reflect on what I have said to Michael Marconi I
>realize that my words were too severe and unjustified. Yes, I did threaten
>Marconius, but by no means did I intend to deliver upon that threat, even if
>I had an opportunity to do so.
>
>At the moment that I replied to Marconius' email (subject: Jesus and the
>liberals...) I simply wrote the harshest words I could produce at that
>moment and sent it out instantly without thinking. I realize that I was
>wrong and should have ignored Marconius' post or written a more polite
>reply. When I wrote the reply I was furious at what he had posted. The
>reasons for my feelings at that moment would take far too long to explain in
>detail. My feelings were influenced by personal experience and what the
>Christian Church has done through history.
>
>I realize that I cannot change the past, but if there were a way to change
>the past I would prevent myself from sending those words. All I can do now
>is place myself at the mercy of the Senate, may it do what it considers
>just.
>
>Lucius Fannius Agelastus Dives
>
>
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Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------
proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon
"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704
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