Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:43:36 +0000

missmoon wrote:


> What's the Latin for "just chill"?
>
> -- Flavia Claudia


Well....would it be Solamente Frio in spanish??

Subject:	Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?)
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:07:07 -0500

At 11:35 27/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>From: Ira Adams iadams@--------
>It is not all that clear that Marconius violated the Constitution --
>wishes are not crimes. It is his conduct, not his wish, that is
>unacceptable. It is hard to find any specific clause in the Constitution
>that Marconius' conduct violates, but we all seem to agree that his
>conduct is unacceptable and that we should not have to tolerate it here.
Indeed.

>A credible threat against another person certainly is illegal in any
>locality in the U.S. that I've ever been in. Go out into the streets of
>wherever you are, pick someone out, and start shouting that you're going
>to kill that person, and see what happens.
Of course, but there are separate considerations that the US court system
does take into account when such behavior is *provoked*. If Fannius said
what he did without a catalyst to his anger (hey, I was angry too!) then
I'd say it was definitely unwarranted.

>It is also a crime in Nova Roma, because to threaten harm against a
>citizen violates their rights under Article II, Sec. 6.6.
And so now we're stuck in a sticky situation.

Citizen A breaks into Citizen B's house. Is citizen B supposed to sit back
and say ok do whatever you want i can't harm you? Or should Citizen B
attempt to forcefully remove Citizen A from him property.

If I, as a female citizen, am accousted by a male citizen who wishes to
"knock some sense into my pagan head," should I just cower in a corner or
sit back and take a blow so as not to violate Article II, Sec. 6.6 of our
constitution? I won't. I'll knock some sense right back into his head so he
knows never to touch me like that again. And in some states of the US I can
kill my husband in self-defense and get off scott free. We're speaking of
*provocation* here, and Romanus's words were quite provoking! And
intentionally so, I believe. He purposefully intended to provoke us, and it
wasn't us as a people, but our Gods! That is the ultimate insult.

>So, no matter how offended we may be by Marconius' conduct, and no matter
>how sympathetic we might feel toward Fannius' conduct, the fact is that
>Fannius' actions were even more clearly illegal than were Marconius'
>actions.
Refer to above.

>As far as Marconius is concerned, it may be that the most appropriate
>response would be for other citizens to simply shun him by deleting his
>posts unread.
And I suppose the same was said in respect to Hitler until it was too
late. Where do we draw the line?

>But since both have been formally accused of criminal conduct, it is time
>for the preatores urbani to get on with applying the law.
Absolutely. So, do you think we could get a virtual Coloseum? (It's a joke).

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Marconius'Catholic post
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:12:19 -0500

At 12:34 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: LSergAust@--------
>As far as Marconius' crime and punishment are concerned, Patricia Cassia,
>as quaestor, has the duty to assist an assigned magistrate. I don't see
>where the Constitution gives a quaestor any imperium allowing her to
>abrogate a citizens constitutionally-guaranteed right to participate in
>this forum (Article II, Section 6.4), no matter how richly he may deserve
>it. He has not yet been convicted of a threat to the Republic, so nobody
>seems to be yet entitled to forbid him to participate in this list
>(unless maybe a praetor urbanis declares his conduct to actually pose an
>"imminent and clear danger to the Republic."). Such authority probably
>should exist, but it seems that right now it doesn't exist in law.
What about insulting our *Gods*!?! Are we forgetting the main cause of
conflict here, and the *reason* for Fannius's anger?

>Quirites, can we PLEASE PROCEED ACCORDING TO OUR LAWS and not according
>to our feelings? This past year has been characterized by extra-legal
>proceedings and something approaching mob-rule at times. Will our
>magistrates please perform their DUTIES?
Let us not forget about our DUTIES to our Gods and their protection and
the honor that they deserve.

Orbianna


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Darn!!!!
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:15:29 -0500

Listen to your Augur.

At 14:10 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In a message dated 12/27/98 2:10:14 AM EST, mdm8@-------- writes:
>
><< I wish to save souls while he threatens to
> kill the Christian citizens of NR. He is a clear and present danger and
> as such he must loss his citizenship! >>
>
>You are in no position to be calling for such! You have violated our
>Constitution and are now receiving the consequences of doing such. You
should
>ritely be stripped of your citizenship and all NR activities. You
continue to
>propegate your mission to convert the Pagan citizens of Nova Roma.
>
>We will deal with Correa in turn but you have no say or right in this.
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: An apology
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:20:13 -0500

At 14:24 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
&--------n a messa--------ated 12/27/98 3:51:15 AM EST, --------@-------- writes:
>
><< After having time to reflect on what I have said to Michael Marconi I
> realize that my words were too severe and unjustified. Yes, I did threaten
> Marconius, but by no means did I intend to deliver upon that threat, even if
> I had an opportunity to do so. >> etc.
>
>Citizens of Nova Roma, I call you now to act in due response to the
violations
>of our Constitution, the threats against our Citizens one and all, and to the
>continued decay of our unity.
>
>I have called for the immediate dismissal of Lucius Marconius Romanus on the
>grounds that he has violated two articles of our Constitution on more than
one
>occasion and has shown no interest in the further development of Nova Roma
and
>the ideals we hold (i.e. the restoration of the Religio Romana, the Pagan
>Religion of Ancient Rome). His posts have been insulting, degrading,
>attacking, and down-right vile.
>
>We now have seen citizen Lucius Fannius Agelastus Dives publically threaten
>not only the forementioned vandal above, but all Christian citizens of our
>Republic. This too must not go unanswered.
>
>In light that this seems to be Fannius' first offense and for one which he
has
>posted a public apology explaining his anger and his haste in writing a
>response, I call for the Senate, Censors, or whatever institution be
>responsible to publically reprimand Lucius Fannius Agelastus Dives for his
>threat. Fannius should be placed on a probation period of sort in which the
>violation of such will result in immediate revocation of citizenship.
>
>Lucius Marconius Romanus has been informed once before of his wrongful
posting
>and disruption of the harmony of our Republic. This second offense, this
>ministrial christian/catholic propaganda post on the Birthday of Sol Invictus
>Mithras, must be answered with the immediate revocation of his citizenship.
>He must not be allowed re-entry into Nova Roma as he has shown himself to be
>an enemy of the state and Senate. He must furthermore not have any say in
the
>decision regarding Lucius Fannius Agelastus Dives as his citizenship
>revocation should be retroactive to the day of his vile post.
>
>I call upon you, Friends, Romans, Countryfolk...let us act in unison against
>this decadense and the further corruption of our Republic!
>
>Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
You have my full support in this matter, Paterfamilias. I agree with each
word you have written. With your final word then Gens Luciania fully
supports this action as you outlined.

Iustiana Luciania Orbianna
Gens Luciania
Citizen of Nova Roma


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Ousting
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:23:29 -0500

At 14:40 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>In --------ss--------d-------- 12/27/98 10:15:38 AM EST, M--------2Two@-------- writes:
>
><< I would daresay that the Senate WILL put things off until January and
maybe
> longer. Then, I am waddling (walking), talking example of impatience these
> days. >>
>
>This I will not tolerate! This is an easy open and shut case! Romanus has
>clearly violated our Constitution on more than one account within less than a
>3 week period. I call for his IMMEDIATE dismissal as a citizen of Nova Roma.
>Any less is a slap in the face to the Pagan citizens (and all citizens) of
>this Republic!
>
>Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
>

I agree! Is there anyone else who requires IMMEDIATE action on the
dismissal of lucius marconius romanus?


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:29:05 -0500

At 14:57 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>People of Rome do not be fooled! There have been no attacks upon
Christianity
>or the Catholic Pope on this list. We have spoken of our uneasiness with
>sitting down at xmas dinner with our Christian families and how it has
made us
>feel uncomfortable. We have spoken of our alternative beliefs and practices
>and our own personal views of this season.
>
>It is Romanus who has violently attacked the Pagan Faiths! It is Romanus who
>has previously been reprimanded for his previously violations! It is Romanus
>who has attacked not only the Pagan Citizens of Nova Roma but both our sacred
>and secular institutions!
>
>Let us do right by our Nation! EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
I have to say that agree with my brother in this case. We cannot let these
acts go unexcused.

Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?)
From:	Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:43:57 -0500

At 15:03 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>I must disagree! Marconius has violated at least two articles of our
>constituion on two seperate occasions:
>
>Article I Sec. 2 which states Nova Roma's primary functions shall be to
>promote the study and practice of the Ancient Roman Pagan Religion
>
>
>Article VI Sec. 1 which states that , Citizens need not be practitioners
>of the Religio Romano, BUT may not engage in any activity that
>intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its
>practitioners.

>This is just cause for dismissal.
That sounds about right.

>Fannius' actions were the result of being insulted by Marconius Romanus and
>will be dealt with appropriately. He has offered a public apology and has
>agreed to accept whatever punishment befall him from our Senate.
>
>Marconius' meager attempt at an apology continued to show his blatant Anti-
>Pagan sentiment by declaring his christian mission "to save souls". He has
>shown himself no friend of Rome.
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS!
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
You go, Paterfamilias!


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Provacateurs (was: Jesus/liberals)
From:	"Juan Correa" --------@-------- (by way of Diana/Orbianna proserpina@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxx)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:47:38 -0500

I just wanted to see what would happen if I tried what Fannius stated.

Orbianna


-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Correa [mailto:--------@--------]
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 12:12 PM
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Provacateurs (was: Jesus/liberals)

From: "Juan Correa" --------@--------

This is how easy it is to send an email and make it appear from another
source, although upon close inspection of the headers it is possible to see
where it really comes from.

Lucius Fannius Agelastus Dives

Subject:	Re: Fannius' punishment
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:50:28 -0500

At 17:12 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: m--------oon m--------oon@--------
>>Well, Fannius....speaking as a private person and not for the Senate,
this particular Senator (as a Vestal) orders you to extend your wrist...
>
>***SLAP!***
>
>Bad, bad Fannius!!

Finally! Fannius has gotten what he truly deserves!!! Io Vesta!

>I can see where you were really angry, but let's consider what Patricia
>Cassia once suggested: write your e-mail, but wait a few hours before
>you send it. We have an awful lot of nice Christian and Jewish citizens
>here who are tolerant and don't proseletyze. Try to consider their
>feelings, first. At least your apology speaks well for your dignitas.
Wise words. I agree!

Vale,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:18:31 -0500

At 18:06 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Salve. Iustina Luciania Orbianna;
>
>I thank you for your most kind words and thoughts. I have often been
>both amused and impresded with your posts to this list, and I welcome
>the opportunity to get to know you better. I am honored to call friend
>
>Vale, My Friend
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

<beamingly> Audens, you are very sweet, and very formal! I quite enjoy the
combination. It reminds me of days of old. Many of my friends thought that
Nova Roma was a good place for me to be, because though I focused primarily
on Greek religion in my studies, they thought I was more Roman in
personality since I'm so fond of order and tradition (not that I'm
generalizing all citizens to be as such). I'd like to get to know you
better as well, Audens. Perhaps the list would like to go through
introductions stating a bit about each of themselves, their pursuits and
interests in Nova Roma, non-Roman related interests, and any old thing that
comes to mind they wish to share. What say you all?

Vale and Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: No thanks
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:30:46 -0500

Salve, Audens.
Your words are truly well-thought out. I am impressed. As I have mentioned
before in passing, I was once born-again, a fundementalist of the Christian
Faith. I knew nothing other than Christianity, and my Spirit needed
expression, regardless of the theoretical holes I kept finding (in the
Fundamentalist faith, not necessarily all sects). I'm a happy pagan now
with pagan pursuits, but certainly not without understanding to those of
the Christian faith, as I have been there (and proselytized). Now I accept
the Truth to be unique for each individual, Christian, Jew, Pagan, or
whatever. There's something to be said about William James's Pragmatism.
So, Audens, thank you for your well-written thoughts.

Vale and Bright Blessings,
Orbianna


At 19:04 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Actually my dear, I can not thank him for anything he has done. I am a
>Christain and all of you know that, but I am a Christain with a great
>love of all things Roman especially military and naval because of my pst
>background. But I tell you now, that we the unannounced, hopefully
>quiet and level-headed (still working on that, Sorry!!) have been
>hounded into our homes, places of work and churches of the Protestant
>Faith by the "fire and gospel" believers such as this stupd fellow who
>is disrupting this NR. I do not thank him for hs effort as it is the
>same effort that led Phillip of Spain to force Jews into damaged ships
>and causd hm to sink in the depths of the Mediterranean as a means of
>ridding the world of such.
>
>His is the kind that fought the wars of the lowlands and murdered
>civilans over the differences between ideas of scripture, and his is the
>relion that burned the Last of the Great Knights of Malta at the stake
>for the Christain conquests at the word of the church that dispatched
>the knights.
>
>No my dear, I do not thank Marconius for anything except a headache and
>the sureity that such are they not held under strong leash or totally
>banished would not go to "any" lengths to hang "your immortal soul" upon
>his religious scalp belt. Marconis is not interested in any degree
>whatever in "saving your soul" he is only interested in portraying his
>"game bag" to higher authority. His motives are clear to one who has
>fled this sort of thing from childhood to adulthood. His clumsy
>stupidity in attempting to carry out a relatively straight forward
>mission should not mask his true intent. Dexippus is absolutely right,
>this mongrel will lie in his teeth, because his religion does not count
>lying to those not of the faith a lie. His priest will absolve him of
>all lying sins for a donation to the church and he will be free to
>strike again. Believe me citizens I know how these peope work, I once
>was one of them for a short time before my conscience forbade me
>further. Ihave come to Christ in my own way and did not need such as he
>to publish lies and half truths about the bible. I know this letter is
>hard to take, on your own ground, but itis the simple truth and the
>warnings of Dexippus again are right on.
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>Beware the lies of the fanatic when he is in pursuit of prey!!!!
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:40:51 -0500

At 20:01 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
>And how did you surmise that these posts were not serious? Did you not
>think that they might offend someone?
>
Come now, we mustn't be too serious all the time, right Flavia? It was
from you and Kelly that I learned that one can even laugh during a full
ritual (can you believe that?). Did I ever tell you, Lilith, that your
rituals during Haunted Happenings in 1997 were the first group rituals in
which I ever participated? And between your antics and Kelly's in and out
of circle, I have learned that even the Gods enjoy a bit of laughter and
jokes. I'd find no offense to someone jokingly talk about throwing Jove out
of the Sky. I mean come on... How probable is that? And how probable is it
that someone would throw the Pope out of the Vatican. Let's be realistic
here. If someone were serious in saying that, then yes, there would be a
problem.

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Who's Billy Jean? was Re: Apology
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:49:18 -0500

Gods! You people are insane! I love it! And Crys, I'm 24, but I still
remember Thriller like it was yesterday ;-)


At 03:28 28/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>From: M--------2Two@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-12-28 02:41:22 EST, you write:
>
>> << (Billy Jean is NOT my lover either) >>
>> Salve!
>>
>> Who by the gods is Billy Jean and why is he on this list?
>>
>> Q. Fabius
>
>I am going to assume your kidding, but will explain anyway.
>
>In that very post I made reference to Michael Jackson (light dawning yet?)
who
>sang a song about Billy Jean (yet?) not being his lover, just a girl who
>clained that he was the one, but the kid was not his son (yet??).
>
>Crys (suddenly feeling quite old -- I remember when Michael Jackson was
black)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Ousting
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:56:13 -0500

At 11:24 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>Maybe the scream at the bottom of this message is like a virtual bumper
>sticker?
I was sort of seeing it like that, actually, now that you mention it. I
thought it was rather amusing and considered adopting it myself. It's sort
of like those things you see on bulletin boards, "Free Abdul Jamal someone
or another" with his picture. Can we make a virtual picture of Romanus to
go with the bumpersticker, Dex?

>>
>>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
>>
>>--Dexippus
>

PAGAN AND PROUD!
EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!


:-) :-) :-)

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's worse?)
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:59:43 -0500

At 11:35 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
>Salvete Dexippe et alii
>
>The following is from Article II, paragraph 4 of the NR Constitution:
>
>Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked, with no refunding of taxes or
>other fees heretofore paid, through one of several means, all of which may
>be appealed to the Comitia Centuriata if desired:
>
>a) By Senatus consulta;
<shudder> I can't help but to think back to 186BC, The Senatum Consultum
de Baccanalibus.

>
>So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
>(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. I think that the latter course
>would be more appropriate, because Romanus is a private citizen who
>allegedly violated our law. He is not, let us say, a Consul who has nearly
>destroyed our organization and whose presence poses an immediate threat to
>our continued existence as a group.
Well, it certainly seems that this is a learning experience for us all as
citizens of Nova Roma. I am eagerly awaiting the result of all this, to see
what we take from this experience and how we use it develop ourselves into
a stronger community.

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:29:38 -0500

At 15:26 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And he did it more than once, which is certainly indicative of intent.
>He provoked those of folk who dwell here to consider fright and flight,
>and admitted what he had done and his reason, which for many Nova Romans
>is more worrisome than his original efforts.
>
>I have told you his clear intentions and that of the priests who support
>him and their feeling for you!!!! Let the Plebian Tribunes defend him
>if they can. I recommend no trial, as the crime was heinius to those
>who have sought refuge within Nova Roma from religious persecution. I
>am not Pagan in belief, but I respect the Gods of the Romans and the
>other beliefs herein, and believe that each person must choose his own
>gods, because on the pedestal of death and only then may the real truth
>be believed, and to my mind, all will be judged by the face of their
>gods, but how one's life was lived and one's Strength of Faith will tell
>the story.
>
>This creature would have you in his hands, not for your benefir but for
>his. Let the Senate act to rid him from among you as a continuing
>threat. His kind will never be content until he has forced his way upon
>some one, and then call it a victory, and an excuse to continue.
>
>Let the Senate act!!
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>Quaestor-Elect
>Military Tribune
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>

Has anyone heard of "eradio" or something of the like. I can't believe I
cannot remember nor find this term in my notes. I know of its implications
and an example of its usage, but not the term itself. In essence though,
it's the erasure of one's existence, and to the Romans it was a penalty
worse than death. Now, I am by no means suggesting this be considered in
the case of Romanus, but I'm bringing it up for edificiation's sake.
All this Senatum Consultum and trial talk brought me back a year and a
half to a Roman epigraphy class I took when I was studying classics at
Penn. Harriet Flower came in and did a presentation on the Senatum
Consultum de Cn. Pisone patre. I can't find the handout I had for the
lecture, but I do have the bibliography and my notes. Evidently Piso (a
Senator if I remember correctly) was accused of poisoning the beloved
Germanicus (hey ho, Germanicus! I'm sure you know of what I speak). Piso
was given a fate worse than death, the complete erasure of his existence.
According to my notes such a fate included:

No women in his family could mourn him
All public and private portraits of Piso were destroyed
No images of Piso were allowed at all, including wax masks in the house or
at the funeral
His name was removed from the statue of Germanicus
All property was confenscated by the gov't, including land that was a gift
from the emporer
The son of Piso was required to change his praenomen to Lucius, his Uncle's
name.
Bits of the house added by Piso were demolished

Intriguing, huh? As far as I remember, the family of Piso was required to
act as though he had died or never existed. I can't remember the details.
Anyway, just a bit of info I thought I'd share.

Valete,
Orbianna

Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Just Chill, Ya'll
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:35:11 -0500

At 23:31 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Lucius" v--------l@--------
>
>>> What's the Latin for "just chill"?
>>>
>>> -- Flavia Claudia
>
>
>Modo Frigus, Omnes
>
<laugh> That's great!

Modo Frigus, Omnes. <laughs again> I think I hear a new song about to hit
the top 40...


Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Man and the Sacred
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:37:18 -0500

Wow! Thanks, Pythia! This is great stuff!

Vale,
Orbianna

At 00:15 30/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I just found this great site and though you all might be interested!
><a href="http://www.enteract.com/~jwalz/Eliade/man.html" target="_top" >http://www.enteract.com/~jwalz/Eliade/man.html</a> Best, PythiaMan and the
>Sacred SACRED WORLD, SACRED LIFE, SACRED TIME
>
> The Sacred World: Dayak of Borneo
> The Sacred Life of the Lenape
> Cosmic Symbolism of the Deleware Cultic House
> The Australian Cycle of Life
> The Meaning of Existence
> The Phases of Sacred Life
> The Sacred Era: Ngaju Dayak
> Hunting is a Holy Occupation: Naskapi Indians
> The Sacredness of Agriculture: Vivedat
> Jain Respect for Life
> ORIGIN AND DESTINY OF THE SOUL
>
> Souls, Dreams, Death, Ecstasy
> Australian Conception of the Soul in Life and Death
> Pre-existence and Incarnation among North American Indians
> Man's Soul Identified both with Osiris and with Nature
> The Polynesian Mana
> TYPES OF SACRIFICE
>
> Nuer Sacrifice
> The Ainu Bear Sacrifice
> Horse Sacrifice and Shaman's Ascent to the Sky
> A Mazdean Sacrifice to the Sun
> Homeric Sacrifice for the Dead
> Sacrifice to Rhea: the Phrygian Mother-Goddess
> Expiation of an Umbrian Town
> An Offering for Jupiter before the Sowing
> A Roman Harvest Sacrifice
> Devotio: The Sacrificial Death of Decius
> The Cosmic Sacrifice
> RITUALS, ORACLES, PRESCRIPTIONS AND DEVOTION
>
> Rain-making
> A Spell for the Revival of Osiris
> The Sacred Pipe: Dakota Indians
> Meaning and Value of Rituals: A Confucian Appraisal
> The Enshrinement of Amaterasu
> A Shinto Harvest Ritual
> Aztec Ceremonial Bathing of the Newborn
> The Egyptian 'Negative Confession'
> Aztec Confession and Penitence
> A Chinese Theory of Portents
> The Appearence of a White Pheasant
> The Oracle of Trophonios at Lebadeia
> How To Become a Gadharva
> Perform action, free from attainment to its fruits...
> Personal Worship: Puja
> The Merits of Building a Temple
> Acts and Rewards of Devotion to the Buddha
> Muhammad Proclaims the Prescriptions of Islam
> 'Those who repent thereafter, and make ammends...'
> Pilgramage in the Qur'an
> PRAYERS AND HYMNS
>
> A Bushman Demands the Help of His God
> A Prayer to Imana, Creator of the Ruana-Urundi
> Hymn to Mwari, the God of the Mashona
> An Arapaho Prayer: Algonquian Tribe
> Give thanks to Mother Earth: Pawnee Tribe
> A Tahitian Family Prayer
> A Hawaiian Lament
> A Sumero-Akkadian Prayer to Every God
> The Great Hymn to Shamash
> 'Loose me from Sin' :A Hymn to Varuna
> 'How May I and Varuna be United?'
> 'Make Me Immortal' :A Hymn to Soma Pavam&acirc;na
> Hymns to Agni
> The Prayer of Scipio Africanus
> Cleanthes' Hymn to Zeus
> Muhammad Prescribes the Daily Prayers of the Muslim
> Prayers of Dervishes
> PATTERNS OF INITIATION
>
> An Australian Tribal Initiation
> Dukduk, A Melanesian Secret Society
> Diksha, an Indian Initiatory Ritual: Hinduism
> Initiation of a Warrior: Going Berserk
> Cuchalainn's Initiation
> Dionysus and the Bacchae: Euripides
> The Eleusinian Mysteries
> Death and Initiation in the Mysteries: Plutarch
> Initiation into the Mysteries of Cybele
> The Epiphany of the Mystery God
> Identification with the Mystery God
> 'Demortalizing'
> Plato on Initiation
> Initiation in the Mysteries of Isis
> Personal Piety in Rome
> K&ucirc;kai's Initiation in the Esoteric Buddhism
> | Main |
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
orbianna@--------

proserpina@--------
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: Man and the Sacred
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:36:16 -0600 (CST)

Yes- thank you for sending that really interesting attachment Pythia.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Marconius
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:57:10 -0500 (EST)

To Nova Roma;

I have sent my unsolicited recommendation to the Senate as a Quaestor
-Elect, and indicated that because of strong feelings within the
citizens of NR, that I recommended a Senate Consultum to exile the
subject. My reasons given were: the subject has committed a serious
crime not once but twice and has admitted to it and therefore a trial
was not required as it would have been had the charge been opposed. I
further stated that in my eyes the swift move of the Senate Consultum
would not delay the final outcome and woud show that NR can respond with
vigor and determination when it's rules are broken.

You will all realize that because I have not taken office this is the
farthest that I may take this, until I should receive a response from
the Senate or the Magistartes. I have only taken this action because as
a citizen I do not kbnow that the Senate or Magistrates "are" working on
it and several citizens have strongly indicated the above preference.

I consider that I have done my duty as a citizen, and unless I am
contacted further by someone wishing such poor assistance as I can
render, I shall await the efforts or our Senate /Magistraes.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor - Elect
Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:06:49 -0500 (EST)

Orbiana's idea has a lot of merit, and would be a welcome change from
this diet of "M" and frustration. Lead it off, my dear, and I will jump
in some where along the line,behind the ladies as a gentleman should,
Straighten your skirts immediately sir and wipe the smirk from your face
Dextrina!!!!!!!!!! <G> (-: (-: (-:

M. Minucius ( Audens)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:47:35 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 03:57:14 EST, you write:

>My reasons given were: the subject has committed a serious
> crime not once but twice and has admitted to it and therefore a trial
> was not required as it would have been had the charge been opposed.

I'm no attorney (don't even play one on TV), but isn't this how these things
are done in the US? OK, I'll give an example. The last time I was raped
(hasn't happened since...promised myself the next man to attempt anything of
the sort would, literally, die trying.....and I'd probably get the death
penalty.....oh well), he didn't even get charged with rape, but with some
lesser offence (non-aggrivated criminal sexual abuse or some such BS). By the
time we got in front of a judge (a Senate or Magistrates, if you will) 1 YEAR
later, the charge was the same, they re-interviewed me, we stood in front of
the judge, where he pleaded guilty to an even lesser charge. He was
eventually convicted of Battery (somewhere in there he pulled my hair and they
ran with it) and given 1 year court supervision (not even a slap on the wrist,
if you ask me). Basically the same punishment they give you in Illinois when
you jaywalk or litter. But the 'trial' was over in 1 minute, once all the BS
legal dancing was over. This didn't happen on a mailing list, for an
additional 80 people to witness. It put *me* through a solid year of absolute
hell while he was given *his* due process. Fair? To him, yes......what about
his victim? US laws don't always seem to be interested in the victim........
Few are interested in the victim....... damn shame.


>I have only taken this action because as
> a citizen I do not kbnow that the Senate or Magistrates "are" working on
> it and several citizens have strongly indicated the above preference.

I felt the same way waiting for the law to 'work' for me. And in the meantime
he harrassed me and there was nothing I could do aboout it. Just as the
nightmares and insomnia were abating, notice of court came and it began all
over for me.

Someone mentioned lynching. If this 'mob' wanted to lynch Marconius, his
citizenship would have been history before his Christmas Eve postings. If he
*is* ousted, will it be in a year? 6 months?

I am from Illinois. Fair, legal justice in that state is...well....John Wayne
Gacy died of natural causes on death row a couple of years ago for crimes he
committed in...what....1977?

I don't *know* that the Senate or whoever is in charge of these things is
doing anything but sitting back and waiting for it all to go away. I'm afraid
I do not have a TV or cable, so maybe I am missing the reports on CNN. All I
seem to get here is the Lynder Farm Network report on number of cows
slaughtered and all. How can we remain patient if we don't know there is
anything beong done for us to be patient *for*?

Seems to me this is often how the mobs some are so worried about get formed.


>
> Marcus Minucius Audens

Crys (gee, I hadn't thought of him in a while -- guess this Marconis mess is
stressin me more than I thought)

Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius & presents
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:17:33 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii



>From: m--------oon m--------oon@--------
>
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am interested in seeing Marconius put
on trial, whether or not he ever posts a line in this forum again.

His post was offensive and has drawn accusations (justified in my view) of
violating the Constitution. I consider the issue of how he is treated
(exiled by the Senate, exiled by a magistrate after a trial, lynched etc.)
very important.
>
>And as long as we're getting real...when was the last time we heard from
>Marconius, relative to the many, many posts about him? He seems to have
>gone into self-exile, perhaps back to the TradCaths for more religious
>tracts, I don't know. But he hasn't been here, and until he does show up
>-- if he ever does -- let's just drop the entire thing. The Senate is
>doing it's job and so will the rest of the new magistrates who will be
>taking office.
>
>Enough of Marconius. We're working ourselves up into a lather over
>someone who may not even be worth the trouble. Let's get back to the
>interesting stuff! Like what everyone got for Saturnalia...

Well, Claudia, I doubt that you would find what I got any more interesting
than Marconius. Let's test my theory:

- 2 different translations of De Gallico Bello
- An excellent frying pan
- A decent snow shovel
- Several mulberry scented candles
- Pumpkin bread
- Chocolate cream pie
- Fudge
- Cracker & spicy gouda spread snack kit
- Some cash
- A gift certificate or two

OK, I am ready to field questions from you and other interested citizens on
any of the above items. Anyone? Anyone?

Or we can talk about Marconius' exile, or when and how our magistrates will
take their oath of office, or...
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: translations of the Gallic Wars
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:18:38 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RMerullo [SMTP:rmerullo@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:18 AM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: An end to Marconius & presents
>
> From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
> Salvete Claudia et alii
>
>
>
> >From: m--------oon m--------oon@--------
> >
> I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am interested in seeing Marconius
> put
> on trial, whether or not he ever posts a line in this forum again.
>
> His post was offensive and has drawn accusations (justified in my view) of
> violating the Constitution. I consider the issue of how he is treated
> (exiled by the Senate, exiled by a magistrate after a trial, lynched etc.)
> very important.
>
Really? Why, we had no IDEA you felt this way! Why didn't any of you
speak up?
(read as sarcasm.)

I'm not sure what else we can do. The Senate was convened. We voted
for exile. We were still missing one vote, last time I checked because a
Senator was unavailable, but he might also have voted by this time. We can't
officially announce anything because only a Consul can do that and have it
be valid, so anything I've said here should be taken only as hearsay because
it's not official until the Consul SAYS so.

I have no idea why the results of the Senate vote haven't been
posted to the list, but I'm sure it has to do with the holidays and people
being gone. I'm only tellling you this much because I believe the people
should know what the Senate's doing -- as editor of the Eagle I have a
vested interest in open government. And because most of you seem to think
the Senate is sitting around with our thumbs stuck up our podexes on this
issue. Podices?

I'm not sure what else you suggest we do in the meantime. Hang him
summarily from the Rostra? Go over to his house and hang toilet paper in the
trees? Start making a Voodoo doll? Sign him up for a two-second bout with
Mike Tyson?
> >
>
> Well, Claudia, I doubt that you would find what I got any more interesting
> than Marconius.
>
Actually, after reading endless posts all saying the same thing, I
find almost anything more interesting than Marconius, including a case of
athletes foot.

> Let's test my theory:
>
> - 2 different translations of De Gallico Bello
>
Yeah? Which ones? How do they differ? Which one would you recommend,
if someone was buying only one translation? Do you really believe Caesar's
assertions about the Druids or did he exaggerate to justify the expenses of
further incursion into Gaul?

> - An excellent frying pan
> - A decent snow shovel
>
Good. Come do my driveway.

> - Several mulberry scented candles
> - Pumpkin bread
> - Chocolate cream pie
> - Fudge
>
And bring the fudge with you.

> - Cracker & spicy gouda spread snack kit
> - Some cash
> - A gift certificate or two
>
> OK, I am ready to field questions from you and other interested citizens
> on
> any of the above items. Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Or we can talk about Marconius' exile, or when and how our magistrates
> will
> take their oath of office, or...
>
The magistrates take their oaths in January. We've said this over
and over on the list.
JANUARY. It's the first month of the year, comes right after
December which isn't over yet, and right before February, which honors
Februus, the Etruscan god of the dead. JANUARY!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Marconius'Catholic post
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:11:58 -0500

Salvete Orbianna et alii



>From: Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
>
>At 12:34 27/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>
>>Quirites, can we PLEASE PROCEED ACCORDING TO OUR LAWS and not according
>>to our feelings? This past year has been characterized by extra-legal
>>proceedings and something approaching mob-rule at times. Will our
>>magistrates please perform their DUTIES?

> Let us not forget about our DUTIES to our Gods and their protection and
>the honor that they deserve.
>
>Orbianna
>


I do not think that the Gods are in any danger from Marconius. It is the
sensibilities of Nova Roman citizens that were damaged, but probably not the
Gods themselves, since they are immortal and above petty human attack. The
Constitution does acknowledge that the honoring of the Gods, the Religio
Romana, must be maintained and protected.

I think that everyone agrees that Marconius' post was very wrong, and that
something must be done about it. The differences of opinion emerge at this
point, who should do what. He has been accused (rightly in my opinion for
what it may be worth) of violating the Constitution, and at least two
citizens have called for him to be exiled (have citizenship revoked).

I think that the plea to heed our laws is a very sound one. If we do not
establish a court and put Marconius on trial, why should we, will we even be
able to do so, later when someone else is accused of a different violation?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	A new shout Re: Ousting
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:17:27 -0500

Salvete Orbianna et alii



>From: Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
>

>>
>>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS NOW!
>>
>
>I agree! Is there anyone else who requires IMMEDIATE action on the
>dismissal of lucius marconius romanus?
>
Since shouting bumper-sticker type lines are now popular in the forum, I
have decided to try it:

PRAETORES URBANI SITTING AND ELECT CONVENE TO ASSIGN RESPONSIBILITY TO
ACTION ITEMS TO ESTABLISH A CRIMINAL COURT AND PUT LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS
ON TRIAL!

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:31:58 -0500

Salvete Orbianna et alii



>From: Diana/Orbianna --------er--------@--------
>
>At 20:01 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
>>And how did you surmise that these posts were not serious? Did you not
>>think that they might offend someone?
>>
> Come now, we mustn't be too serious all the time, right Flavia? It was
>from you and Kelly that I learned that one can even laugh during a full


I have nothing against humor, it is just that in a forum like this, what is
a funny joke to one person is a painful jab at another. What part of that
fact is so hard to understand?

>jokes. I'd find no offense to someone jokingly talk about throwing Jove out
>of the Sky.

Well, someone else might have a big problem with such a joke as that. Think
about it.

I mean come on... How probable is that? And how probable is it
>that someone would throw the Pope out of the Vatican. Let's be realistic
>here. If someone were serious in saying that, then yes, there would be a
>problem.

The bottom line is, jokes at someone else's expense, especially if the
someone else is a group, ethnic, religious, sexual-preference-defined etc.,
are bound sooner or later to find a vulnerable recipient, or many such.
Some of those may feel attacked and fight back, which is my own theory on
why Romanus did what he did. Please note that this is not meant as a
justification or apology for someone else's actions, not at all, nor is it a
proposal for censorship.

As far as plausibility, what about the jokes on the Pope's robes? What was
so implausible about those comments? I am not a Catholic (or even a
Christian for that matter), but I shudder to think how a devout Catholic
would react to such things. I think that perhaps we all have found out how
some devout Catholics would react.
>
>Valete,
>Orbianna
>


Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:41:03 -0500

Salvete Crystallina et alii


>
>I don't *know* that the Senate or whoever is in charge of these things is
>doing anything but sitting back and waiting for it all to go away. I'm
afraid
>I do not have a TV or cable, so maybe I am missing the reports on CNN. All
I
>seem to get here is the Lynder Farm Network report on number of cows
>slaughtered and all. How can we remain patient if we don't know there is
>anything beong done for us to be patient *for*?
>
>Seems to me this is often how the mobs some are so worried about get
formed.
>
>
I agree totally. Magistrates and Senators, could you please keep us
informed?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: translations of the Gallic Wars
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:07:14 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii



>From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
>
>
>

> I'm not sure what else we can do. The Senate was convened. We voted
>for exile. We were still missing one vote, last time I checked because a
>Senator was unavailable, but he might also have voted by this time. We
can't
>officially announce anything because only a Consul can do that and have it
>be valid, so anything I've said here should be taken only as hearsay
because
>it's not official until the Consul SAYS so.

Thank you for this information.
>
> I have no idea why the results of the Senate vote haven't been
>posted to the list, but I'm sure it has to do with the holidays and people
>being gone. I'm only tellling you this much because I believe the people
>should know what the Senate's doing -- as editor of the Eagle I have a
>vested interest in open government. And because most of you seem to think
>the Senate is sitting around with our thumbs stuck up our podexes on this
>issue. Podices?

Yes, I think 'podices' sounds right.
>
> I'm not sure what else you suggest we do in the meantime. Hang him
>summarily from the Rostra? Go over to his house and hang toilet paper in
the
>trees? Start making a Voodoo doll? Sign him up for a two-second bout with
>Mike Tyson?

Ha ha. Really, though, I thank you for letting us know what is happening.
I think that he should be put on trial, but if you read my posts you have
heard my position on that.
>> >
>>
>>
>> - 2 different translations of De Gallico Bello
>>
> Yeah? Which ones? How do they differ? Which one would you recommend,
>if someone was buying only one translation? Do you really believe Caesar's
>assertions about the Druids or did he exaggerate to justify the expenses of
>further incursion into Gaul?

Well, I read the Latin text of it years ago. One of these was titled
"Caesar's Conquest of Gaul", I believe, being a volume in the Penguin
Classical Library. I read the first paragraph of each and decided that I
would retain the other one and ask my friend to return the Penguin. I'll
get back to you after I read it with the full title, and what I come up with
on the Druids.
>
>> - An excellent frying pan
>> - A decent snow shovel
>>
> Good. Come do my driveway.

OK, as soon I clear my own driveway and dispense with all my other
professional, familial and domestic responsibilities (in other words, when
orcus freezes over :)).
>
>> - Several mulberry scented candles
>> - Pumpkin bread
>> - Chocolate cream pie
>> - Fudge
>>
> And bring the fudge with you.

Which do you prefer, peanut butter or chocolate?
>

> The magistrates take their oaths in January. We've said this over
>and over on the list.

Really? How did I miss it?

> JANUARY. It's the first month of the year, comes right after
>December which isn't over yet, and right before February, which honors
>Februus, the Etruscan god of the dead. JANUARY!

OK OK OK, January. Actually, January is about three days away. Will you
all physically congregate somewhere, or use the chatroom? Will both augurs
be present? Really, if it isn't a secret, let me know.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
>
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: translations of the Gallic Wars
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:18:04 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 11:18:04 EST, you write:

> And because most of you seem to think
> the Senate is sitting around with our thumbs stuck up our podexes on this
> issue. Podices?
>

While I'm pretty sure what Podeces/Podices are, could you reassure me? (ummmm,
post the defiition in the Back Alley. I think it'll be better accepted there)

> I'm not sure what else you suggest we do in the meantime. Hang him
> summarily from the Rostra? Go over to his house and hang toilet paper in
the
> trees? Start making a Voodoo doll? Sign him up for a two-second bout with
> Mike Tyson?

I have been told what a Rostra is........ the toilet paper idea sounds
fun..... Voodoo??? Why not?? Tyson??? hehehehehehe That'll show em!!!


> > >
> >
> > Well, Claudia, I doubt that you would find what I got any more
interesting
> > than Marconius.
> >
> Actually, after reading endless posts all saying the same thing, I
> find almost anything more interesting than Marconius, including a case of
> athletes foot.

I don't have athletes foot, but I just came from the doctor's. Since there
have been a...um....grumbling or two about boring and off topic posts, I will
tell all in the Back Alley. The Birth I will post to both lists!!!!!

Crys (I even got prescriptions now.... drugs!!! It's about flippin TIME!!!!!!
WHOOPIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! <G>)

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:38:29 -0500

> From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
>
>
> As far as plausibility, what about the jokes on the Pope's robes? What
> was
> so implausible about those comments? I am not a Catholic (or even a
> Christian for that matter), but I shudder to think how a devout Catholic
> would react to such things. I think that perhaps we all have found out
> how
> some devout Catholics would react.
>
Which, naturally, brings us back to the question of what a "devout
Catholic" is doing on the e-mail list of an organization that promotes pagan
religion.

I wonder if the TradCath list would be happy if I'd go over there
and start leaving posts that promote the worship of Vesta as the one true
god? If I feel that way, I'd probably have no business on that list. and
whatever they said to me, I'd deserve, including jokes. I'm just real, real
tired of being tolerant of people who come to NR knowing our orientation but
determined to save us from it anyway.

I would also suggest that we stop tiptoeing around the oh-so-fragile
sensibilities of these people.

Let me make this clear, just so there's no mistake. I am a Roman
Pagan and a priestess of Vesta. I worship and respect the Roman Gods, and
any respect I give other deities -- or DON'T give -- is entirely at my
discretion. While I am in Nova Roma I will do everything possible to defend
the Religio Romana because promoting it is the stated goal of the
organization, which is why I joined in the first place.

As a matter of record, I still feel (and I'm sure Dex will back me
up) that the Pope's robes would look much better on Dex and that big ring
would look much better on me. And as a personal crusade, but not Nova
Roma's, I would love to demand that the Vatican restore to the survivors and
heirs the art they got from the Nazis, who looted it from the Jews. To any
Pagan organization willing to undertake the maintenance of it, they can also
return the statutes of Roman gods that they looted from the ruins of Roman
temples and that now repose in the Vatican Museum where no one is allowed to
lay sacrifices or burn incense before them; the Pantheon, which was built
for the worship of Roman gods and has been desecrated; and the property on
the Vatican Hill.

Title to any of the above items that the current Pope would like to
divest the Church of (except the looted art) can be sent directly to me,
probably via FedEx.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:54:17 EST

Salvete and sigh......

This is why I began the Back Alley. I don't know why, but it seems there are
a lot of oversensitive people here who have el zippo sense of humor. The Back
Alley has a disclainer stating that if you are oversensitive or thin skinned,
please don't even bother to ask to be subbed (YUP...that would be big time
censorship .. sue me).

The Back Alley list is, actually, quite exclusive. It is sort of a private
club for people on this list who ask silly questions (like me) and make
outrageous statements (like killing the Pope and taking over his house), but
do not feel they can really be themseles on THIS list because it is so........
damn conservative.

When Lapis is born I will post to both lists, but all medical reports on him
will be submitted to the Alley. Why? Because there has been more than one
comment about posts not unlike mine either offending or boring subscribers.
Fine. So far no one has unsubbed from this list in favor of the Alley.
Hopefully no one will. The subscribers are confidential. Someone suggested
to me that NR Censors or Senate would want to keep an eye on my list. Believe
me, there is a reason *I* am the one and only moderator AND a reason the list
is unpublished. Once I get access to the account the list is formed under, I
will likely set the list to approve any new subbers. There have also been one
or two suggestions at another list name, lest the Nova Roma higher-ups get it
in their heads to say something about NR being used in the list title
(yup....we're getting a bit Paranoid, ain't we?).

I have been called every name in the book. My mother taught me a little ...
let's call it a proverb ... which I would like to share....

Sticks and Stones may Break my bones
BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME!!

Remember, if you have something to say or have a question to ask and are
afraid to bring it to this list (as myself and obviously many others have
been) please email me privately and I will in all likelihood put you on the
list (yup...there are already members of this list who wouldn't be subbed to
the Back Alley short of a VERY generous donation to the Terry/Lapis College
Fund).

Please be aware that I will, due to...um ... billing disagreements ... be
unable to access AOL after today, maybe tomorrow. I have already signed onto
another ISP and as soon as I get the new modem, will sub to my own lists again
and this one. So if you want to join, let me know ASAP, or tell Dex (a member
who posted his interest pubically) and he will tell another member (who asked
privately to be on the list) who has my telephone number and will call me if I
can't get back online immediately. I will then sub ya to the list via the
Waseca Public Library.

Crys

Subject:	Re: Senate and Magistrates
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:58:52 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RMerullo [SMTP:rmerullo@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 12:07 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: translations of the Gallic Wars
>
> From: "RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
> OK OK OK, January. Actually, January is about three days away. Will you
> all physically congregate somewhere, or use the chatroom? Will both
> augurs
> be present? Really, if it isn't a secret, let me know.
> >
Not sure exactly of the mechanics of how this is going to be done.

And you know what? As long as I'm on a rant, let me say that I'm
real sick of secrets, too. Someone on this list once suggested that we
revive the old custom of having somebody stand at the door of the Senate and
yell out to the people about what was going on. Good idea!

Do we have a candidate for "Official Yeller"? (Or 'Old Yeller' if we
can get a Senor Citizen to do it.)

Cives think that the Senate isn't doing anything because the Cives
don't hear from them right away. The Senate has to be convened and can't
just vote all at once: there has to be debate. (If there isn't debate, we
might as well have an Emperor.)
This takes time. In Roma Antiqua it took even more time, especially
if you count cleaning up after the fistfights.

One good thing to come out of this Marconius deal is that now we
know we have to establish the mechanics of dealing with trials, exile, etc.
Would you really feel better if we just threw something together and then we
were stuck with it?

I'll be happy to post the results of Senate votes and pending
legislation in a regular column in the Eagle, but that should be approved by
the Senate itself. These things will work themselves out, given time. NR has
LOTS of things that still need to be done -- this organization is not that
old, you know! We've gone from two guys (can you just see Cassi and Germani
having a couple of beers and saying, 'Ya know what? We should revive Rome!")
to almost 200 Citizens in less than a year.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Ousting
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:01:45 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 11:39:27 EST, you write:

<< Putting someone on trial is hardly
"sweeping (their violations/crimes) under the rug"; it is preserving the
rights of every civis to due process. Until the matter is resolved legally,
you may get some relief by filtering out his messages. >>


It's an open and shut case. I don't see where a trial is needed. The Censors
and the Senate have within their possessions, the posts to which we are
referring and the Constitution by which to pin-point the exact violations.
They are the ones who now must act.

<<I agree that he violated Article VI paragraph 1 on 12.24.98. I do not
understand, however, how or by whom you are calling for this "cancer" to be
removed.>>

I am asking our elected officials to deal with this in the most appropriate
manner...expelling Lucius Marconius Romanus. This is the not first violation
from this citizen. Let's expell him and hold to this as an example...NOVA
ROMA WILL NOT TOLERATE ATTACKS ON ITS CITIZENS.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (who's ...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:03:18 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 11:39:36 EST, you write:

<< So, in this case it looks like either the Senate can do it or a magistrate
(I presume a Praetor Urbanus) after a trial. >>

Then I call upon the Senate to now take action. Let's not allow this to
linger. Let's deal with it and be done.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:06:05 -0500

> From: M--------2Two@--------
>
>
> The Back Alley list is, actually, quite exclusive. It is sort of a
> private
> club for people on this list who ask silly questions (like me) and make
> outrageous statements (like killing the Pope and taking over his house),
>
HEY!!! Nobody ever said 'kill' the Pope! I just want most of his
stuff, the bulk of which belonged to pagans like me in the first place. Hand
it over, Incense Boy!

> When Lapis is born I will post to both lists, but all medical reports on
> him
> will be submitted to the Alley. Why? Because there has been more than
> one
> comment about posts not unlike mine either offending or boring
> subscribers.
>
And who exactly is to decide what posts are boring? I've read plenty
of boring self-important posts here that didn't come from YOU. But I still
think your BackAlley list is a great idea.


> So if you want to join, let me know ASAP, or tell Dex (a member
> who posted his interest pubically) and he will tell another member (who
> asked
> privately to be on the list) who has my telephone number and will call me
> if I
> can't get back online immediately. I will then sub ya to the list via the
> Waseca Public Library.
>
Holy cats, getting on your list sounds tougher than getting access
to the X-Files.
sign me up.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Back Alley
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:04:50 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 13:06:37 EST, you write:

<< Dex love it should be fixed!! I have NO idea what happened. >>

Thanks! Seems like I'm back on! : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:06:27 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 14:56:23 EST, you write:

<< I certainy hope that all Nova Romans working so hard to protect the
rights of the sbject plan in the near future to devote as much attenton
(or more) to helping those whom his vile words attacked and made so
nervous as to even consider leaving this protecting vale.
>>


HERE HERE!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Potpouri & marcon
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:10:51 -0800

Salvete, Quirites!

I'm going to try and include a few responses in this post. I've not really tried
this method before, and I might throw my hands up in despair after an item or
two. Here goes!

Crys made several good comments in her post about "due process", but the one I
wish to reiterate is:

> I don't *know* that the Senate or whoever is in charge of these things is
> doing anything but sitting back and waiting for it all to go away. I'm afraid
> I do not have a TV or cable, so maybe I am missing the reports on CNN. All I
> seem to get here is the Lynder Farm Network report on number of cows
> slaughtered and all. How can we remain patient if we don't know there is
> anything beong done for us to be patient *for*?

Yes. This has been a characteristic of our "Res Publica" from the start. This
instance is one where the populace must be kept informed. And this is an instance
where, in my humble opinion, a report that "not much is happening" would not be
received well. I *have* heard that the Senate is working on this. I do not know
in what way. In the old Republic the Senate doors were always open except when
they were voted to be closed for a "closed doors" session. And the debate over
closing the doors could be long and heated, and every detail reported to the
citizenry. These reports were from citizens hanging around outside the doors.

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:12:34 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 18:24:26 EST, you write:

<< He attacked ALL of us verbally. No-one was injured and no-one with a
modicum of sense was "frightened." In calling for orderly, lawful
disposition of the matter, we are protecting the institutions of the
State. If he is "lynched" by mob acclamation without due process, I (and
probably others with good sense) will certainly consider leaving. >>

And as I have stated before:

If Lucius Marconius Romanus is not properly dealt with through revocation of
his citizenship for the violations of the Constitution on two seperate
accounts, then I will consider leaving Nova Roma. I will not be party to an
organization that allows the flagrant and deliberate attacks which Marconius
is guilty of upon my person, my beliefs, or my concious.

EXPELL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Revocation of citizenship was Re: Marconius vs.Fannius (wh...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:17:03 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 18:27:44 EST, you write:

<< Steps short of revocation of citizenship could
be taken in the meantime. But let's get real -- nobody is endangered by
Marconius' obnoxious and blasphemous postings. This is not a national
emergency. There is no need for the hysteria some citizens seem to want
to indulge themselves in. He could be instructed by a Consul to refrain
from posting until trial. Or citizens could just choose to quit reading
and responding to his posts. >>


I beg to differ! This is a national emergency! For once again Barbarians
have infultrated our midsts! First on the Message Board...then in the Chat
Room...now on the OneList! We do need to take immediate action to hinder the
further deterioration of our Republic. Marconius has shown himself to be no
friend of Rome, the Roman People, or the Roman State! Anything short of
revocation is placating those who share his vision and ideals and an invite
for others to take up the slack!

It is not enough to delete his posts! It is not enough to silence him until a
trial! Within a 2 week period, he twice violated the Constitution! Let the
Senate act and dispell this poison!

EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:18:21 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 19:05:58 EST, you write:

<< And as long as we're getting real...when was the last time we heard from
Marconius, relative to the many, many posts about him? He seems to have
gone into self-exile, perhaps back to the TradCaths for more religious
tracts, I don't know. But he hasn't been here, and until he does show up
-- if he ever does -- let's just drop the entire thing. The Senate is
doing it's job and so will the rest of the new magistrates who will be
taking office. >>


I would agree but I do not think action should wait until Marconius returns
from his silence. Immediate action is needed by the Senate.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Patricia Cassia's duties
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:27:41 -0500

Salve, Patricia Cassia

>I am co-moderator of the Nova Roma e-mail list, a duty I undertook as
>requested by Marcus Cassius Julianus, Consul and Co-Founder of Nova Roma.
>
>As Quaestor and moderator I have no power to interpret the Constitution,
>set laws or oust citizens

>In the meantime, I would like to point out that strident calls for
>immediate action are not likely to edify the list or make this community
>a more pleasant place to be.
>
And a Fine job you doing, especially considering all you have been through
reciently.
Mille Grati tibi ago et Felicem Novum Annum volo

Vale, L Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Re: Yule Celebrations(reports from around the globe)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:29:38 EST

In a message dated 98-12-28 23:35:47 EST, you write:

<< "A Kitchen Witch's Cookbook" by Patricia Telesco (an
author that I thoroughly enjoy) >>

Ah yes...Patricia Telesco. Now this book is quite enjoyable and the recipes
are quite delicious.

However...her other book "Urban Pagan" has much to be desired. Hey, I don't
know what she was smoking when she suggested one may charge an athame by
placing it in the microwave oven! Now, how's that for invoking the Fire
Element....BOOM!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Senate and Magistrates
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:31:40 -0800

Flavia Claudia wrote:

> We've gone from two guys (can you just see Cassi and Germani
> having a couple of beers and saying, 'Ya know what? We should revive Rome!")
> to almost 200 Citizens in less than a year.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

I have often wondered just how many beers were involved! =({;-)

Ericius

Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:36:03 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dexippus@-------- [SMTP:Dexippus@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 1:18 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: An end to Marconius
>
> From: Dexippus@--------
>
>
> I would agree but I do not think action should wait until Marconius
> returns
> from his silence. Immediate action is needed by the Senate.
>
WE'RE DOIN' IT!!! Hold yer horses!

Boy, some people are so touchy just because you happen to drop ONE
LITTLE HOUSE on their sisters....<|;) (notice the pointy hat)


F. Claudia

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:40:41 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 13:04:54 EST, you write:

> And who exactly is to decide what posts are boring? I've read plenty
> of boring self-important posts here that didn't come from YOU.


<HUFF> MY posts are NOT boring....they are filled with silly questions about
all this history and Latin stuff I still don't get!!!!! They are NOT boriing.

I NEVER!!!! (OK, maybe that once....well....maybe twice....but still)

Crys (muttering "Boring, humph")

Subject:	Re: Senate and Magistrates
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:40:33 EST

Salvete Omnes;

In a message dated 12/29/98 1:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
raz--------@-------- writ--------br>
> > We've gone from two guys (can you just see Cassi and Germani
> > having a couple of beers and saying, 'Ya know what? We should revive
Rome!"
> )
> > to almost 200 Citizens in less than a year.
> >
> > -- Flavia Claudia
>
> I have often wondered just how many beers were involved! =({;-)
>
> Ericius

Believe me, you DON'T want to know the answer... >:-)

It's neat to get nostalgic about those heady days, though (a whole year ago!).
We'd be on the phone for hours discussing various things, and emails flying
back and forth prodigiously. Some of the things we had originally looked so
good on paper, then we realized what it would actually be like in practice,
and then back to the old drawing board we'd go!

Fun times...

Valete,

Germanicus

Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:50:21 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 01:34:08 EST, you write:

<< And how probable is it
that someone would throw the Pope out of the Vatican. >>


He can keep the Vatican....I JUST WANT THE RING!

--Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus

Subject:	Re: Ousting
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:51:20 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 01:50:18 EST, you write:

<< Can we make a virtual picture of Romanus to
go with the bumpersticker, Dex? >>


UUUUGGGGHHHHH!!!!!....don't get me started on that path!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Patrician Status
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:56:12 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 04:06:56 EST, you write:

<< Straighten your skirts immediately sir and wipe the smirk from your face
Dextrina!!!!!!!!!! <G> (-: (-: (-:
>>

My skirt is straightened...thank you very much! And stop trying to get a
cheap feel...you Pervert!

--Dextrina

Subject:	Saturnalia Presents
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:57:58 -0500 (EST)

To the devil with "M"!!! Let's talk about the Pumpkin Bread!!! Is
there a recipe that goes with that?? I am a pushover for Pumpkin Bread
or Pumpkin Cake, the moister the easy I get. Ma I can hardly wait for
sniff-a-vision!!!!!!!

My gifts this season wre as follow:

-Mainz type Gladius;
-British National Ensign (pre-1793);
-British Naval Ensign (Red Duster)
-Solid Hull ship model (CSS Arkensaw);
-Solid Hull ship model (USS Mortar Boat);
-Plank model (Roman War Bireme, "Caesaria";
-Engineer's Compass and Pocket Transit;
-3 books on Scotland 18th century clothing , recipes, and Celtic
language; -Ship Modler's Tool Kit;
-Model of a 19th Century Truss Railroad Bridge (HO Guage);
-Ship Modeler's Encyclopedia;
-A 19th century hoded rain poncho;
-18th / 19th century carved wooden bowl, plate and noggin;
-Two 18th century lead holders;
-Carbine Stock for my 1851 .36 caliber Colts revolver;
-A beautiful book called Mapping the Civil War by Christopher
Nelson (with 55 rare color prints of C.W. maps from the Library of
Congress.

The gift for the family was a very nice tape and CD player with twin
speakers that really brings one into the music hall, so to speak. It
was a very nice Holiday My wife received comparable gifts in her
hobbies of quilting and music.

As you can see my gifts are well reresentative of my hobbies and
interests.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:58:30 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 08:48:05 EST, you write:

<< Someone mentioned lynching. If this 'mob' wanted to lynch Marconius, his
citizenship would have been history before his Christmas Eve postings. If he
*is* ousted, will it be in a year? 6 months? >>


I will not stand to allow this to drag itself out for a year or 6 months.
It's an open and shut case to which the Accused has admitted to freely and
without provocation.

EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus from Nova Roma
From:	JoeBloch@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:58:57 EST

Salvete Omnes,

On behalf of the Senate of Nova Roma, I hereby announce that a vote has been
taken regarding the expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus as a Citizen.

This action was taken as a result of his apparent violation of Article VI,
Paragraph 1 of our Constitution, which states (in part) "Citizens need not be
practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that
intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its
practitioners..." in an email sent to the official Nova Roma email list on
December 24th.

It is the judgement of the Senate that Lucius Marconius Romanus has indeed
violated the provisions of our Constitution deliberately. Under the authority
of Article II, Paragraph 1.1, the Senate has voted unanimously to expell
Lucius Marconius Romanus from the rolls of the Citizens of Nova Roma. Although
he was given an option 48 hours ago to resign rather than face public
expulsion, he has apparently chosen not to do so, as no reply to the Senate's
offer has yet been received.

If he wishes, he may appeal the judgement of the Senate to the Comitia
Centuriata, in accordance to our Constitution. Failing receipt of his
intention to make such an appeal within 8 days of this announcement, the
Censors should strike his name from the list of Citizens and the webmistress
should remove his listing from the Active Gentes.

On behalf of the Senate of Nova Roma,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Senator

Subject:	Re: Expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus from Nova Roma
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:08:40 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:01:57 EST, you write:

> It is the judgement of the Senate that Lucius Marconius Romanus has indeed
> violated the provisions of our Constitution deliberately. Under the
> authority
> of Article II, Paragraph 1.1, the Senate has voted unanimously to expell
> Lucius Marconius Romanus from the rolls of the Citizens of Nova Roma.
> Although
> he was given an option 48 hours ago to resign rather than face public
> expulsion, he has apparently chosen not to do so, as no reply to the
Senate'
> s
> offer has yet been received.


:::::::begin tape:::::::

Hally Jula Hally Jula Hallajulahallyjula Ha-La-Ju-La

Crys (like it could be anyone else <G>)

Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:08:53 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 11:45:08 EST, you write:

<< I have nothing against humor, it is just that in a forum like this, what is
a funny joke to one person is a painful jab at another. What part of that
fact is so hard to understand?

<<SNIP>>

Well, someone else might have a big problem with such a joke as that. Think
about it.

<<SNIP>>

The bottom line is, jokes at someone else's expense, especially if the
someone else is a group, ethnic, religious, sexual-preference-defined etc.,
are bound sooner or later to find a vulnerable recipient, or many such.
Some of those may feel attacked and fight back, which is my own theory on
why Romanus did what he did. Please note that this is not meant as a
justification or apology for someone else's actions, not at all, nor is it a
proposal for censorship. >>


Ok...let's not get carried away here....there is a BIG difference with having
fun with something and making fun at someone else's expense. We must all
learn to laugh at ourselves as well as others. But doing so with the intent
to hurt is wrongful.

Marconius' posts were not an attempt at humor. They were serious attacks upon
the Pagan Beliefs of most of the citizens here. If he was reacting a previous
humorous posts about the Pope and his robes, then he should have posted at
that time that he took some offense, and those parties involved would have
humbly offered up their sincere apologies.

This is a classic example of what happens when a pot is left to boil...it
overflows! If you read something on this list that offends you and you feel
it must be clarified as to it's intent, ask...it's that simple.

But to post a heinous message months after a supposed beef you had with a post
and insult the religious beliefs of your fellow citizens is not tolerable.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Marconius'Catholic post
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:13:14 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 11:45:14 EST, you write:

<< I do not think that the Gods are in any danger from Marconius. It is the
sensibilities of Nova Roman citizens that were damaged, but probably not the
Gods themselves, since they are immortal and above petty human attack. The
Constitution does acknowledge that the honoring of the Gods, the Religio
Romana, must be maintained and protected. >>

Merullus, I would ask you to read up on your Mythology. For there are many
stories of the Gods taking offense to mortal attacks upon their beings, names,
and honors. Marconius did just that. By insulting our religion, he insulted
our Gods.

But I agree that's beyond the point. He is in clear violation of the
Constitution and as I understand it has now been officially removed from our
Republic and stripped of his citizenship. A decision I feel is just and well
deserved.

Citizens of Nova Roma can not be easily accused and punished. But the great
advantage of a written communicae is that there is always a record of it. The
Senate knows exactly what Romanus said in his posts and can take action
directly from that.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:20:12 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 12:37:10 EST, you write:

<< As a matter of record, I still feel (and I'm sure Dex will back me
up) that the Pope's robes would look much better on Dex and that big ring
would look much better on me. And as a personal crusade, but not Nova
Roma's, I would love to demand that the Vatican restore to the survivors and
heirs the art they got from the Nazis, who looted it from the Jews. To any
Pagan organization willing to undertake the maintenance of it, they can also
return the statutes of Roman gods that they looted from the ruins of Roman
temples and that now repose in the Vatican Museum where no one is allowed to
lay sacrifices or burn incense before them; the Pantheon, which was built
for the worship of Roman gods and has been desecrated; and the property on
the Vatican Hill.
>>

I would agree here...the Pope's robes would look much better on me...BUT I
WANT THE RING TOO DAMMIT!

I think Flavia Claudia makes a good point here in her post and it echoes what
I once said regarding joining the Church Choir down the street. When you join
an organization with a stated goal, you must be willing to abide by that goal.
I can not expect to join the Church Choir and demand them host a Yule Ritual
in place of Midnight Mass. This is just being reasonable and understanding.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Marconius'Catholic post
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:19:38 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:13:37 EST, you write:

> For there are many
> stories of the Gods taking offense to mortal attacks upon their beings,
> names,
> and honors.

JOKE WARNING JOKE WARNING

Maybe the gods will turn putzie into a sheep or somethin....

Crys (Lamb chops anyone???)

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:23:38 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:20:53 EST, you write:

> I would agree here...the Pope's robes would look much better on me...BUT I
> WANT THE RING TOO DAMMIT!


ROFLMAO!!!! Take it in the Back guys!!!!

Crys (ROFLMAOOOOOO)

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:26:04 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 12:54:51 EST, you write:

<< This is why I began the Back Alley. I don't know why, but it seems there
are
a lot of oversensitive people here who have el zippo sense of humor. The
Back
Alley has a disclainer stating that if you are oversensitive or thin skinned,
please don't even bother to ask to be subbed (YUP...that would be big time
censorship .. sue me). >>

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Let all beware! That one Damianus Lucianus Dexippus is a
subscriber to the Back Alley List and the "Flood Gates Are Open". Let no one
be spared! Let none find shelter from the onslaught of jokes, puns, insults,
and come-ons! Hide your husbands and children! (I have no interest in your
wives!).

--Divus Maximus Extremus

"And there was a great earhtquake, and the sky grew as dark as night, and then
a voice was heard from above...and it said, 'Unplug that toy and turn on the
lights!'"

Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:29:51 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 13:35:06 EST, you write:

<< Boy, some people are so touchy just because you happen to drop ONE
LITTLE HOUSE on their sisters....<|;) (notice the pointy hat)
>>

And she still has my cheap ruby slippers! That Tramp!

--Dexippus : )

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:33:20 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:29:08 EST, you write:

> Hide your husbands and children! (I have no interest in your
> wives!).


WHICH REMINDS ME......

No one saw e getting upset when Dex mentioned Toddler and Little Boy soup (for
which I STILL have not recieved the recipe)

Crys (if ya cn't beat em, cook em)

Subject:	Re: Expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus from Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:37:03 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:01:28 EST, you write:

<< It is the judgement of the Senate that Lucius Marconius Romanus has indeed
violated the provisions of our Constitution deliberately. Under the authority
of Article II, Paragraph 1.1, the Senate has voted unanimously to expell
Lucius Marconius Romanus from the rolls of the Citizens of Nova Roma. >>

I, Damianus Lucianus Dexippus, wish to thank the Senate for their prompt and
timely action on this matter. And I wish to thank all those citizens who have
lent their support for the quick resolution herein.

I wish to see our great and glorious Republic grow for the betterment of all
her Citizens.

Ave Nova Roma!

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
Augur, Nova Roma

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:39:10 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 14:33:56 EST, you write:

<< No one saw e getting upset when Dex mentioned Toddler and Little Boy soup
(for
which I STILL have not recieved the recipe) >>

Remind me on the Back Alley List and I will post the most delicious Toddler
Soup recipe you have ever seen!

--Dexippus

Subject:	New Modem/New address
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:46:23 EST

Salvete all,

I got my notice that my new 56K modem is ready to be picked up. I should be
able to connect with the ISP locally that way. It's too cold and I'm
penniless today, so I will pick the sucker up tomorrow or maybe the next day.
Probably tomorrow. I will test the new ISP and if all goes well I will unsub
from all these lists and resub under the new email addy (I am still subbed
under the Juno addys, but set to no mail).

Wish me luck.

Crys (gonna get a new toy!!!!!)

Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:59:05 -0600 (CST)

Cool- now we are rid of Marconius and his disruptive posts. Now we can
move on to something more positive and productive after another brief
comment or two from the cives.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Senate Action-Marconius
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:00:51 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Most Honored Roman!!!

I, Marcus Minucius Audens wish to thank the Senate for thier prompt and
timely action in the subject matter.

In my most humble opinion you have restored the dignity of our
Constitution and have in the same stroke releved the apprehensions in
the minds of many Nova Romans.

I salute you Noble Senators and Magistrates and hope that in some small
portion it will be provided to me to be as wise and determinate in my
future actions within the Roman Political Scene, whatever my assigned
tasks may be.

Vale, Honored Romans!!!,

Marcus Mincius Audens
Paterfamilius, Gens Minucia
Quaestor - Elect
Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:05:55 EST

In a message dated 12/29/98 10:58:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:

<< -Plank model (Roman War Bireme, "Caesaria";>>
I think this actually a model of a Quint. It's taking from Landstrom's plans
which are based on the relief of the from the Temple of Fortune, now in the
Vatican
(That word again, Vestal!). Attached is a scan of the relief. I'm at the
museum today. (I have to get a scanner.)

>>A beautiful book called Mapping the Civil War by Christopher
Nelson (with 55 rare color prints of C.W. maps from the Library of
Congress. >>

This book has maps that were taking from "The Official Record of the Civil War
Map Book which is to accompany the 1500 vol. set. I see it too is being
reprinted.
We live in good times, Cives, if you are a historian.

Vale
Q Fabius

Subject:	The Late Unpleasantness
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:07:53 -0500 (EST)

I wish to join with Damious Lucianus Dexippus in thanking those of you
who supported our call for a swift and firm decision on the above
subject.

Our Senate and Magistrates have acted as we have wished and the credit
should go to them. I urge all of you who supported Dex and I to contact
the Senate and Magistrates and thank them in your own way.

Ave! Citizens, Magistrates and Senate of Nova Roma!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens
Paterfailias, Gens Minucia
Quastor - Elect
Military Tribune

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:41:36 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii



>From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
>
>
>
>

> Which, naturally, brings us back to the question of what a "devout
>Catholic" is doing on the e-mail list of an organization that promotes
pagan
>religion.

So, one cannot be a devout follower of another religion and be a full
citizen of Nova Roma? I think that that is nonsense. Anyone who loves and
admires Rome can be a full citizen here, and has all the rights as a
citizen, that any other citizen has. The only instance in which more is
required is for a magistrate, and even then, according to some (including
one sitting Consul) all that is required is respect for Religio Romana.
>
> I wonder if the TradCath list would be happy if I'd go over there
>and start leaving posts that promote the worship of Vesta as the one true
>god? If I feel that way, I'd probably have no business on that list. and
>whatever they said to me, I'd deserve, including jokes. I'm just real, real
>tired of being tolerant of people who come to NR knowing our orientation
but
>determined to save us from it anyway.

Claudia, that has nothing to do with what I said. I'm talking about making
insensitive, insulting remarks about OTHER religions, about using the forum
of Nova Roma to broadcast jokes about somebody else.
>
> I would also suggest that we stop tiptoeing around the oh-so-fragile
>sensibilities of these people.

Who has been tiptoeing?
>
> Let me make this clear, just so there's no mistake. I am a Roman
>Pagan and a priestess of Vesta. I worship and respect the Roman Gods, and
>any respect I give other deities -- or DON'T give -- is entirely at my
>discretion. While I am in Nova Roma I will do everything possible to
defend
>the Religio Romana because promoting it is the stated goal of the
>organization, which is why I joined in the first place.

So, in your mind, making jokes about the Pope is defending Religio Romana?
Because you are a priestess of Vesta, you have a right to make fun of
others' gods and religions? You should keep in mind that there are many
like-minded individuals around, who feel that they have the right to
"defend" themselves in response, as I believe Romanus tried to do.
>
> As a matter of record, I still feel (and I'm sure Dex will back me
>up) that the Pope's robes would look much better on Dex and that big ring
>would look much better on me. And as a personal crusade, but not Nova
>Roma's, I would love to demand that the Vatican restore to the survivors
and
>heirs the art they got from the Nazis, who looted it from the Jews. To any
>Pagan organization willing to undertake the maintenance of it, they can
also
>return the statutes of Roman gods that they looted from the ruins of Roman
>temples and that now repose in the Vatican Museum where no one is allowed
to
>lay sacrifices or burn incense before them; the Pantheon, which was built
>for the worship of Roman gods and has been desecrated; and the property on
>the Vatican Hill.

Do you think that making jokes about other groups (more populated and
therefore much more powerful politically) helps any of these causes above?
Does it force the Vatican Museum to turn over statuary somehow?
>
> Title to any of the above items that the current Pope would like to
>divest the Church of (except the looted art) can be sent directly to me,
>probably via FedEx.

I gather that this last is a joke. But, I can't be sure; maybe you really
do want to get your hands on that stuff and would know how to sell it. You
see, everything that you have written (like everything that I have written)
looks pretty much the same. If you make a joke in the last paragraph, did
you make one in the paragraph before that too? Or were you serious before,
or maybe half-serious...

I think that even the emoticons, though helpful to be sure, will not take
the edge off of sufficiently callous jokes for some people.

But hey, do you as you will everyone. I'm just stating my opinion, and
doing as I will.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Senate and Magistrates
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:47:24 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii



>From: Cheri Scotch CheriS@--------
>
>
>

> One good thing to come out of this Marconius deal is that now we
>know we have to establish the mechanics of dealing with trials, exile, etc.
>Would you really feel better if we just threw something together and then
we
>were stuck with it?
>


Quite the contrary. I asked for an update on the Senate's deliberations in
regard to Romanus, and you have provided that, for which I thank you. Never
would I want the Senate to rush to judgement; if it is worth bringing
before the Senate, then it is worth debate.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Potpouri & marcon
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:58:35 -0500

Salvete Caie Erici et alii




>From: Raz-------- raz--------@--------
>
>Salvete, Quirites!
>
>I'm going to try and include a few responses in this post. I've not really
tried
>this method before, and I might throw my hands up in despair after an item
or
>two. Here goes!

It seemed to work well to me.
>
>Crys made several good comments in her post about "due process", but the
one I
>wish to reiterate is:
>

>themselves were saying. And * All * the common citizenry can do in
situations
>like this one is talk.The type of reports the people got in the old
Republic were
>of the type that Flavia Claudia has given us. Thank you Senator
(Senatrix?).

Yes, these were good points and I am grateful to Claudia for her timely
report.
>
>On all this melodramatic blethering about "lynching"... Come on! There is
NOTHING
>that any of the subscribers to this list can do about posts that assault
them
>except talk, or walk. No matter how many of the subscribers to the list
hate that
>swine who started this current flap, or some innocent who writes funny, the
>subscribers can Not remove someone from the list. All that can be done by
the
>subscribers is talk, or that other option. After a bunch of talking the
people
>will wind down, and go back to growing turnips.

Yes and no. You're right, we cannot drag him up the Tarpeian Rock and hurl
him back down, as might have been done some centuries ago. But, his
citizenship can (and will soon I believe) be revoked; I consider that to be
pretty serious, since I value my citizenship and would view its revocation
as a significantly horrible event.
>
>
>To G. Marius Merullus:
>Which translations to De Bello Gallico are those? I have three, read two.
The
>old Modern Library one, and the Loeb edition. The unread one is by some
milit
>type whose take on J.C. should be interesting.

I'll grab those tomorrow and give more precise information. One of them a
volume in the Penguin Classics Library.
>
>And that ends this experiment. I only had two to respond to.
>
>Until the next round.
>Valete.
>
>C. Aelius Ericius.
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	"Caesaria"
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:21:51 -0500 (EST)

I shall take your comments as fact my dear sir, in deference to your
more profound and deeper scholarship in related areas.

"All I know is this thing has lots and lots and lots of little sticks
and things. This will be a while a-building."

M. Municius
Naval Gubernator (Pilot)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Femininiity
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:32:14 -0500 (EST)

"My very deep pardon Madame, I was of the opinion that "cheap" was all
that was available!!!!! <G> (-: (-: (-: <<Lear>>

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:22:42 -0500

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii



Would it be highly unethical of me to ask whether you're willing to trade?
:)

You said-
My gifts this season wre as follow:

-Mainz type Gladius;

I say-
What is "Mainz"?
-British National Ensign (pre-1793);
-British Naval Ensign (Red Duster)
-Solid Hull ship model (CSS Arkensaw);
-Solid Hull ship model (USS Mortar Boat);
-Plank model (Roman War Bireme, "Caesaria";

Cool!

-Engineer's Compass and Pocket Transit;

I need one!

-3 books on Scotland 18th century clothing , recipes, and Celtic
language;

Excellent!
-Ship Modler's Tool Kit;
-Model of a 19th Century Truss Railroad Bridge (HO Guage);
-Ship Modeler's Encyclopedia;
-A 19th century hoded rain poncho;

I could use one of those too!

-18th / 19th century carved wooden bowl, plate and noggin;
-Two 18th century lead holders;
-Carbine Stock for my 1851 .36 caliber Colts revolver;
-A beautiful book called Mapping the Civil War by Christopher
Nelson (with 55 rare color prints of C.W. maps from the Library of
Congress.

The gift for the family was a very nice tape and CD player with twin
speakers that really brings one into the music hall, so to speak. It
was a very nice Holiday My wife received comparable gifts in her
hobbies of quilting and music.

As you can see my gifts are well reresentative of my hobbies and
interests.

Boo hoo...now I really want to use that Penguin translation of De Gallico
Bello to get a fire started....

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:24:26 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii



>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>
>I will not stand to allow this to drag itself out for a year or 6 months.
>It's an open and shut case to which the Accused has admitted to freely and
>without provocation.
>
>EXPEL LUCIUS MARCONIUS ROMANUS IMMEDIATELY!
>


OK, now the trick is, to get an elected NR magistrate to say that after a
trial. Any suggestions?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:32:22 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii



>From: Dexippus@--------
>

>I think Flavia Claudia makes a good point here in her post and it echoes
what
>I once said regarding joining the Church Choir down the street. When you
join
>an organization with a stated goal, you must be willing to abide by that
goal.
>I can not expect to join the Church Choir and demand them host a Yule
Ritual
>in place of Midnight Mass. This is just being reasonable and
understanding.

True, and I never would argue against this point either. But, you should
not expect that you can without any repercussion join the Church Choir, and,
after practice, make a bunch of jokes about the other Christian church down
the road. Sooner or later, someone will overhear you, misunderstand you,
and decide to fix your wagon, if you know what I mean and I think you do...
>
>--Dexippus
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:35:24 -0500

Salvete Crystallina et alii



>From: M--------2Two@--------
>
>In a message dated 98-12-29 14:29:08 EST, you write:
>
>> Hide your husbands and children! (I have no interest in your
>> wives!).
>
>
>WHICH REMINDS ME......
>
>No one saw e getting upset when Dex mentioned Toddler and Little Boy soup
(for
>which I STILL have not recieved the recipe)
>
Yeah, but if any toddlers had been subscribed to this list at the time, O
Boy we would have heard about it!

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Senate vote
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:13:37 -0500

Ahem.
As a Senator I'd like to say..

THERE!! Now get off our backs and let us get back to our leftover turkey
and that nifty ribbon candy you only see at the holidays.

Jest kiddin' folks. I know you were impatient for a decision.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:20:24 -0500

> << -Plank model (Roman War Bireme, "Caesaria";>>
> I think this actually a model of a Quint. It's taking from Landstrom's plans
> which are based on the relief of the from the Temple of Fortune, now in the
> Vatican
> (That word again, Vestal!).

Yo! John Paul! give us our Fortuna relief back, too!

I'm gonna have to send that guy a telegram.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:27:08 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:08:24 EST, you write:


> > I would also suggest that we stop tiptoeing around the oh-so-fragile
> >sensibilities of these people.
>
> Who has been tiptoeing?
> >

HOT DAMN....a question I can answer!!!!!

Every last person who has subbed to the Back Alley list......for
starters!!!!!!!

> I gather that this last is a joke. But, I can't be sure; maybe you really
> do want to get your hands on that stuff and would know how to sell it. You
> see, everything that you have written (like everything that I have written)
> looks pretty much the same. If you make a joke in the last paragraph, did
> you make one in the paragraph before that too? Or were you serious before,
> or maybe half-serious...
>
> I think that even the emoticons, though helpful to be sure, will not take
> the edge off of sufficiently callous jokes for some people.
>

Jesus Christ in a chariot driven sidecar!!!!!!!!! TERRY knows when Claudia is
joking and she's 21 months old!!!!!!

> Gaius Marius Merullus

Crys (goin in Back....it's really insane up here)

Subject:	Re: Humor and anger
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:27:12 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:47:06 EST, you write:

> Yeah, but if any toddlers had been subscribed to this list at the time, O
> Boy we would have heard about it!
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Marius Merullus


Terry is subscribed to this list, through ME. I told her I was askin for the
recipe, so she knows. Ought to improve behavior quite nicely I think.

Crys (got my pen at the ready)

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:28:04 -0500 (EST)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!! Gee you and I are pals and all that But!!!!!! we
are talking swords and ships here!!!! <G> LOL (-:

Seriously, I have the information to order those items if you are
interested in acquiring any of them.

Now back to the business of Pumpkin Bread and Cake. Come, Come now let
us have no more shilly shallying- Your Recipes or your (oops can't say
"that" that anymore) Uhhhhhhhh "underdrawers" That's It (without those
the toga becomes very revealing)!!!! <G> (-: (-:

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Recreating the Republic
From:	pallasathene@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:42:53 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, quarreling citizens!

As I understand it, NR is here to recreate the Roman Republic, which, as I see it, was very tolerent when it came to religion. If you joined NR, that is your goal.

Verbal abuse on both sides will certainly not convert one to the other, but only fuel the fire of their hate, therefor building a stronger wall of detest.
A vicious circle it is.

Valide,

M. Iucundia Flavia
Propraetor SE USA Province

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Subject:	St. Peter's Library (Upstairs)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:56:59 -0500 (EST)

When I visited Rome last, I took a tour through St. Peters Cathederal
and "got lost" as sailors are wont to do!!!!!! I turned right when
everybody else turned left and ended up in a very long hall filled with
some of the most beautiful treasures I have ever seen. Gold filigree,
jewel- encrusted caskets that gleamd and winked as one walked by,
Books, statuettes, swords, caskets, Faberge Eggs that had a king's
ransom of precious jewels and gold in each. Paintings to die for!!!

Now even being a dumb sailor, I knew I had stumbled onto something very
unusual and I settled down to trying to remember everything I saw, but I
was there about an hour and I really got an eyeful. Finally a large
black-robed monk hove into view, and very stiffly informed me that this
was a private area, and conducted me OUT by the nearest entrance and
after a staircase or two, a couple of short passageways and a very
narrow door later, I was reunited with the group, in disgrace of course,
but I will always remember that treasre house. I've been in a lot of
museums before and since then, but I have never seen anything like that
place!!! It was like Ali Baba's Cave under glass!!!!!

I have never seen pictures of any of those things that I saw in magazine
or postcards or in any discussions of St. Peter's Cathederal, and all I
rember about the location was tha it was after Cistine Chapel and the
double sprial staircase, on an upper floor. It may have been the Pope's
Library, but I am not sure.

I gotta tell you Dex the ring is NOTHIN'. After 30 mnutes in that place
you'd probably fog up all the class cases.

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: St. Peter's Library (Upstairs)
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:15:59 -0500

James Mathews wrote:
>
> From: jmath669642reng@-------- (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> When I visited Rome last, I took a tour through St. Peters Cathederal
> and "got lost" as sailors are wont to do!!!!!! I turned right when
> everybody else turned left and ended up in a very long hall filled with
> some of the most beautiful treasures I have ever seen. Gold filigree,
> jewel- encrusted caskets that gleamd and winked as one walked by,
> Books, statuettes, swords, caskets, Faberge Eggs that had a king's
> ransom of precious jewels and gold in each. Paintings to die for!!!
>
Huh. I guess that vow of poverty must be just in the abstract sense.
Oh well, as long as you didn't see any stuff that rightfully belongs to
the old Temple of Vesta. Otherwise, I'd have to put in a claim.

Did they do a full cavity search on you before you left?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:33:17 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:08:10 EST, you write:

<< So, in your mind, making jokes about the Pope is defending Religio Romana?
Because you are a priestess of Vesta, you have a right to make fun of
others' gods and religions? You should keep in mind that there are many
like-minded individuals around, who feel that they have the right to
"defend" themselves in response, as I believe Romanus tried to do. >>

I think it's a question of how thick your skin is.

For instance...a long time ago in a Republic not so far away, when we were
debating the Vestal Virgin issue, I had stated something to the effect:

"Maybe virgins are not needed...but perhaps whores! It's been two thousand
years and I'm sure Vesta has had a nice long girl talk with Venus by now..."

Now, Flavia Claudia, being the devout Vestal she is, could have slammed out
bloody murder for such a vile desecration of the immaculate Vesta. But
no...she understood whole-heartedly that this was a humerous remark and not an
attack. We can all have fun on this list. Let's not deny ourselves being
human. Let's learn to laugh at ourselves and others while respecting them as
well. Hell, how many times have I pointed to myself as the "screaming Queen
of Nova Roma" (ok...maybe not in those exact words) or the "Renegade Wiccan".

C'Mon folks...drop the PC act...it's so early '90s!

---Dexippus

"Thank the Gods Almighty for the Back Alley List!"

Subject:	Re: Femininiity
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:35:45 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:32:17 EST, you write:

<< "My very deep pardon Madame, I was of the opinion that "cheap" was all
that was available!!!!! <G> (-: (-: (-: <<Lear>> >>

Oh! Well...you didn't say it was a date! Sure you can take me to
dinner...and whatever...

--Dexippus
<<Cheap and Easy!>>

Subject:	Re: St. Peter's Library (Upstairs)
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:39:14 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 17:21:40 EST, you write:

> Huh. I guess that vow of poverty must be just in the abstract sense.

Sheeeeeet.....when Tom (my husband, forgot I had one of those? Don't sweat
it, so did I) and I were living in a cheap transient hotel, I used to threaten
him constaintly with leaving him and moving in wth Cardinal Bernidine who
lived down the street in a MULTI (not multi...ALL caps)- million dollar
mansion. My hubby is Catholic (not something either of us runs around braggin
about) and has always wondered why, if the Catholic Church is the richest in
the world (for only wanting 10% of your income, they're doin pretty good) why
WE were living in a transient hotel and living hand to mouth on good weeks.

Crys (anybody got a problem with the mention of Catholics can take it up with
my husband -- he's got more to say about it and none of it's nice)


> Oh well, as long as you didn't see any stuff that rightfully belongs to
> the old Temple of Vesta. Otherwise, I'd have to put in a claim.
>
> Did they do a full cavity search on you before you left?
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: I don't CARE how the devout react
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:39:59 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:47:04 EST, you write:

<< True, and I never would argue against this point either. But, you should
not expect that you can without any repercussion join the Church Choir, and,
after practice, make a bunch of jokes about the other Christian church down
the road. Sooner or later, someone will overhear you, misunderstand you,
and decide to fix your wagon, if you know what I mean and I think you do...
>>

Oh I hear you loud and clear! LOL

However, if I joined that Church Choir and in jest said, "God those catholics
down the road have tacky robes!", I wouldn't expect such a back-lash. If I
had said, "Damn those Catholic Infidels to Hell for having idols in their
church! Don't they know we have the one true god?"..I would expect some
repurcussion.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Marconius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:40:39 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 15:47:06 EST, you write:

<< OK, now the trick is, to get an elected NR magistrate to say that after a
trial. Any suggestions? >>

No need...it's done. : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: St. Peter's Library (Upstairs)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:46:31 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 17:03:49 EST, you write:

<< I gotta tell you Dex the ring is NOTHIN'. After 30 mnutes in that place
you'd probably fog up all the class cases. >>

I guess it's time to catch up on my studies as a cat burglar!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: St. Peter's Library (Upstairs)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:47:45 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 17:21:55 EST, you write:

<<
Did they do a full cavity search on you before you left?
>>


OH THE TORTUE! I guess I'll reply to this one on the Back Alley list!

--Dexippus
<<holding his tongue!>>

Subject:	Re: Vesta & Venus
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:48:48 -0500

Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>
> For instance...a long time ago in a Republic not so far away, when we were
> debating the Vestal Virgin issue, I had stated something to the effect:
>
> "Maybe virgins are not needed...but perhaps whores! It's been two thousand
> years and I'm sure Vesta has had a nice long girl talk with Venus by now..."

Yes, and she said, "Venus, girlfriend ..I know it's the 90s but look
here... unwanted pregnancies are up, there's AIDS, herpes, chlamydia;
frustrated wives doing a Bobbit on the old man; teen pregancy is a
problem; there's deadbeat Dads, and the divorce rate sucks. I think I'll
stick to celibacy."

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:16:40 -0500

Salvete, Quirites
I hope this turns out ok, this was an overexposed (stop grinning Dex)
picture that I tried to fix with the program that came with the scanner we
just got. It's Canon FB320P that used Adobe Photo Delux 2.0, Is that good? I
sure wouldn't know, I just hope it works.
Anyway I put on my Toga and posed. I hope everyone enjoys it, even
those who are sharpening their Darts :-)

Subject:	Re: Recreating the Republic
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:35:02 EST

Subject:	Re: Expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus from Nova Roma
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:35:00 EST

Excellent! I am heartened to see official action being properly
undertaken.

Lucius Sergius Australicus

>From: JoeBloch@--------
>
>Salvete Omnes,
>
>On behalf of the Senate of Nova Roma, I hereby announce that a vote has been
>taken regarding the expulsion of Lucius Marconius Romanus as a Citizen.
>
>This action was taken as a result of his apparent violation of Article VI,
>Paragraph 1 of our Constitution, which states (in part) "Citizens need not be
>practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that
>intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its
>practitioners..." in an email sent to the official Nova Roma email list on
>December 24th.
>
>It is the judgement of the Senate that Lucius Marconius Romanus has indeed
>violated the provisions of our Constitution deliberately. Under the authority
>of Article II, Paragraph 1.1, the Senate has voted unanimously to expell
>Lucius Marconius Romanus from the rolls of the Citizens of Nova Roma.
>Although
>he was given an option 48 hours ago to resign rather than face public
>expulsion, he has apparently chosen not to do so, as no reply to the Senate's
>offer has yet been received.
>
>If he wishes, he may appeal the judgement of the Senate to the Comitia
>Centuriata, in accordance to our Constitution. Failing receipt of his
>intention to make such an appeal within 8 days of this announcement, the
>Censors should strike his name from the list of Citizens and the webmistress
>should remove his listing from the Active Gentes.
>
>On behalf of the Senate of Nova Roma,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Senator


in ullam rem ne properemus.

(Let's not rush into anything.)

Subject:	Duck!! Here comes another one!
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:50:01 -0500

[This message contained attachments]

Subject:	Re: Recreating the Republic
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:09:15 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 18:35:25 EST, you write:

> Thank you, Propraetor! It is a frequently repeated mis-statement that
> Nova Roma is an organization to promote pagan religion. According to the
> official statements and documents, Nova Roma is dedicated to reviving
> Roman culture and religion -- not pagan religion in general, and there is
> nothing to say that anyone here has to practice even the Religio Romana
> to be a citizen. I wish we could put that debate to rest. Everyone's
> religion is supposed to be their own private business.

Maybe, in that case, we should chuck all the Priesthoods. A private religio
has no business being so damn public.

Crys (Upset at apparently being misled into joining Nova Roma)

Subject:	This seems a good time.....
From:	anaxarete@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:24:41 -0600

To introduce myself!!

I am Reina and have been lurking on this list for about...oh......2
weeks. I found the Nova Roma web page and started to read it and found it
interesting then I subscribed to this list. Since then I have been
reading all I can about Rome.
In school we did the hit and run lessons on most ancient civilizations,
so I have read up on them on my own over the years. Rome is one that I
have always been interested in.

Just went to the Library today and got a few books. I am going again
next week, any good book recommendations? :-)

Oh!! I have a recipe for Pumpkin Bread. If anyone wants it I will send
it to them or post it on the list.

Anyway, Now for a little personal stuff I can tell ya.....well.....I'm a
young'un only 18...recent H.S. Graduate(Is 7 months ago considered
recent?)........I love to read....play, listen and sometimes write
music....act silly on occasions.....well.....maybe more than
occasionally.
:-)

Hmm....that's all I can think of right now........I am glad I have found
the Nova Roma webpage and this list..you are some great people. :-)


Reina


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Subject:	Crys' Back Alley Club
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:24:40 -0500 (EST)

I guess you better sign me up for your Back Alley Group. I have a
response for Dex, his !@@!#$#%$^&%$#!! thick skin, and his little
playlet, and I sure as the Devil can't voice my response on this list!!
I just don't have the polite vocabulary for it!!

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Matthew Amt and I
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:34:36 -0500

[This message contained attachments]

Subject:	Re: This seems a good time.....
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:36:36 -0500 (EST)

Let me sincerely welcome you to Nova Roma Mistress Pumpk--Errrrrrrr
Mistress. We are glad to hear from you and welcome you to our merry band
of whatevers!! <G>

There are quite a variety of neat people on the list, as you will have
discovered by now. Jump right in, the water (or wine) is just right.
The Pumpkin Bread Recipe can be put on the list, and this soldier (or
sailor as the occasion demands <G>, <G>, <G.) will be in your debt or
you in mine, however that works.

A Most Sincere Welcome My Dear;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Presents
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:41:22 -0500

Lucius wrote:
>
> Salvete, Quirites
> I hope this turns out ok, this was an overexposed (stop grinning Dex)
> picture that I tried to fix with the program that came with the scanner we
> just got. It's Canon FB320P that used Adobe Photo Delux 2.0, Is that good? I
> sure wouldn't know, I just hope it works.
> Anyway I put on my Toga and posed. I hope everyone enjoys it, even
> those who are sharpening their Darts :-)
>
How very cool! Of course, I've seen you in your toga before!
You have YOUR stripe at the bottom edge, don't you?

-- F.Claudia
Toga Maker to the Stars

Subject:	Re: Duck!! Here comes another one!
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:42:54 -0500

Lucius wrote:
>
> Salvete iterum
> This was taken in September it was in the 90's but it didn't
> rain so that was a first for me camping with the Legio XX. I hope
> everyone enjoys these as much as I enjoyed making them!
>
WayHAYYYY!! Hot Legs!

-- FCJ

Subject:	Re: This seems a good time.....
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:45:30 -0500

Anaxarete C E wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, Now for a little personal stuff I can tell ya.....well.....I'm a
> young'un only 18...recent H.S. Graduate(Is 7 months ago considered
> recent?)........I love to read....play, listen and sometimes write
> music....act silly on occasions.....well.....maybe more than
> occasionally.
> :-)
>
> Hmm....that's all I can think of right now........I am glad I have found
> the Nova Roma webpage and this list..you are some great people. :-)
>
Uh oh! We're totally embarrassed that you should come upon Nova Roma
while we're in mid-rant, but hey, better now than never! Welcome!

Be sure and say hello to Nocturnia, who is 17 going on 45.

Flavia Claudia Juliana

Subject:	Re: This seems a good time for a beer!!!
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:48:19 -0600 (CST)

Cheers all and welcome Reina!!! After sorting through 2 million posts
this week on how to get rid of an annoying citizen and watching him get
booted out and then seeing that someone still wants to join Nova Roma
and this list is reason to go out for a quick one. Ok, ok it's an excuse
but so be it.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Crys' Back Alley Club
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:47:44 -0500

James Mathews wrote:
>
> I guess you better sign me up for your Back Alley Group. I have a
> response for Dex, his !@@!#$#%$^&%$#!! thick skin, and his little
> playlet, and I sure as the Devil can't voice my response on this list!!
> I just don't have the polite vocabulary for it!!
>
You think you've got a response for Dex NOW, wait until you get into the
Subura back alley! (Hint, hint, but not tellin'....)

I guess I should never have mentioned that Full Body Cavity search!

-- FCJ

Subject:	Re: Crys' Back Alley Club
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:58:02 EST

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOO


We're gonna have some fun NOW!!!!!!!!!

Crys (just plain giddy)

Subject:	Re: This seems a good time.....
From:	Mater2Two@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:58:13 EST

In a message dated 98-12-29 19:36:45 EST, you write:

> Let me sincerely welcome you to Nova Roma Mistress Pumpk--Errrrrrrr
> Mistress. We are glad to hear from you and welcome you to our merry band
> of whatevers!! <G>


Don't let him fool ya!!! He only loves ya for our Pumpkin Bread!!!

Welcome from my little bunch!!!!

Crys

Subject:	Re: Crys' Back Alley Club
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:44:29 -0600 (CST)

A great idea for a mailing list but I have the feeling after going
in there for a while there will be a great need for some other lists to
start up and join like:

The Pissed-Off Populace list
The Reamed Roman list
The Insulted Cives list
The Religious Agitator list

on and on and on...

Anyway the point being that although it is a good idea to have another
list that can be used as it is intended I hope that in the future noone-
including people that haven't joined Nova Roma as yet find it to be a
place to just slam others or make insulting remarks and then expect
everyone to forget about it on this list or at an actual event. Let's
all make sure that we keep some very basic self-imposed guidelines on
this list or any other and not breed any unnecessary hatred of each
other for something said jokingly or not.

The thought of a bunch of white supremacists and black panthers
gathering together for a friendly debate for the thick skinned on race
issues comes to mind as an extreme version.
Really though the two worst things to ever argue about is religion
and politics. We have them both here and to have discussions on a no
holds barred debate on any list throwing in sexual innuendos and open
insulting jokes might not be so good. I'm not saying this will happen -
I'm just saying that we should all discourage it from getting to be that
way.
On the other hand I'd love to hear more of how Crys posts about
things going on with her and Dex making his comments and jokes on B&D
and others playfully making comments about the pope or the Bishop of
Buffalo for what it matters.
Just a little concerned but let's see what happens.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	(no subject)
From:	anaxarete@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:53:51 -0600

Here it is Pumpkin Bread. I have never made it and right now am not
planning too anytime soon......cooked enough last week to last me until
the next holiday season. :-)
Thanks to all who have welcomed me. I feel the *love*!

Pumpkin Bread

1 1/3 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
1/2 cup butteror margarine, softened
1 cup granulated sugar
2 eggs
3/4 canned pumpkin
3/4 chopped walnuts

Preheat oven to 350 F . Grease a 9x5 inch loaf pan.

In a medium bowl, sift together flour, baking soda, salt,
cinnamon,nutmeg, ginger and cloves.

In a separate bowl, cream together butter and sugar untill well blended.
Beat in eggs, one at a time, blending well.

Using a electirc mixer set at low speed, beat in flour mixture
alternately with pumkin, begining and ending with dry ingredients.

Gently fold in 1/2 cup nuts.

Pour batter into prepared pan. Smooth top. Sprinkle with remaining nuts.

Bake for 1 hour or until pick inserted in center comes out clean.
Transfer pan to a wire rack ato cool completely.


Enjoy!!

Reina

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Subject:	Re: An end to Marconius
From:	Mia Soderquist tuozine@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:34:21 -0800 (PST)

---Pythia kingan@-------- wrote:
>
> Well....would it be Solamente Frio in spanish??
>

No. :)

Unfortunately, I am having a bad case of pregnant brain tonight, so I
can't seem to pull up an appropriately chilly verb...
So we'll just say Calmate/calmense! Close enough. Callense/Callate if
it is just the noise of all the uproar that is botherin' ya...

I am sure that this is a case when _Latin For All Occasions_ might
come in handy.

Oh..yeah.. hi, everyone! I am slogging through e-mail that collected
while I was out making merry for the holidays. :)

Mia (Kinda like the name Messalina... Still thinking about names)

Subject:	This seems a good time.....
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:02:17 -0500

Salve Reina



Welcome to Nova Roma. I think that, based on your interest in Rome, you'll
find this an interesting place to be. I highly recommend that you go to a
Market Day chat soon. The next one, I believe, is on New Years Day at 9:00
p.m. Eastern U.S. time (3:00 a.m. Roma time, I believe).

If you're interested in Roman politics, military achievements, language or
religion, they all come up pretty frequently here and you'll probably get
something out of it. At the very least, a severe headache! Just kidding
:).

:From: anaxarete@-------- (Anaxarete C E)
:
:To introduce myself!!
:
: I am Reina and have been lurking on this list for about...oh......2
:weeks. I found the Nova Roma web page and started to read it and found it
:interesting then I subscribed to this list. Since then I have been
:reading all I can about Rome.

I'll send you some book titles. Feel free to send me your own
recommendations.

: In school we did the hit and run lessons on most ancient civilizations,
:so I have read up on them on my own over the years. Rome is one that I
:have always been interested in.

Same here.
:
: Just went to the Library today and got a few books. I am going again
:next week, any good book recommendations? :-)
:
: Oh!! I have a recipe for Pumpkin Bread. If anyone wants it I will send
:it to them or post it on the list.
:
Got it. Thank you.

:Anyway, Now for a little personal stuff I can tell ya.....well.....I'm a
:young'un only 18...recent H.S. Graduate(Is 7 months ago considered
:recent?)........I love to read....play, listen and sometimes write
:music....act silly on occasions.....well.....maybe more than
:occasionally.
::-)

Ah! Here is where we differ. I never act silly at all. I forgot how.
:
:Hmm....that's all I can think of right now........I am glad I have found
:the Nova Roma webpage and this list..you are some great people. :-)

I am going under the assumption that you refer to the more humorous and warm
citizens. A nice statement anyway.
:
:
:Reina
:
Vale

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Forgot how to be Silly!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:44:55 -0500 (EST)

Gee! It couldn't happen to a nicer guy!! I think we should work on
that. You teach me how to be more humorless, and I can teach you how to
be sillier. I think everyone needs a touch of silliness some times to
make the bitter taste go away. One also need to be serious, but it
makes me tired sometimes. What do you think???

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Toga
From:	jmath669642reng@-------- (James Mathe--------/td>
Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:24:31 -0500 (EST)

My Dear Cincinnatus;

I think you look quite distinguished. If I might ask where did you have
it made and is the purple border dyed sewn in place? Isit a fairly
expensive piece or fairly reasonable? When I saw the picture, I am sure
that I could do a school session in one with my scroll. It sould be
good for a half hour at least. Do you have directions for putting it on
and is the toga rectangular, square or round.

Very interesting and quite educational.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Togae
From:	Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:58:48 -0800

Salve Flavia Claudia.

Have you thought of making togae for persons willing to render
remuneration?
Just wondering. (Sure, he is!)

Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius

Subject:	Re: FREE TOO ROAM!
From:	Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:07:26 -0800

Dean Troy wrote:

> From: dean6886@-------- (Dean Troy)
>
> Good bye Michael Marconi who has been proven once again worthy of
> being expelled forever from Nova Roma for his ignorance and intolerance.
> May you find one day the wisdom and the maturity you most desperately
> need in your dealings with other human beings and my sincere desire that
> you find what you are looking for in life at noone else's expense.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Mike Macaroni once again showed himself to be one of those who no one should
have to associate with. He has also shown himself to be a Christian
Catholic heretic. On top of that, having checked out the TradCath beastie
from which he got most of his text (his is probably the part with all the
misspellings) I do not think that they would be all that pleased with his
activities. In fact their list guidelines are very civil, and laudable.
One might even say Roman. But rather than inform them that their stray lamb
is leaving droppings on the carpet, I think we should conduct their own
investigation and trial.

I do commend Michael Marconi to Iove Pater, the guarantor of the laws of
hospitality, in keeping with which Michael Marconi was welcomed into Nova
Roma. I commend Michael Marconi to Diana Venatrix who is known for her even
handed treatment of those who render Her honors as well as those cast insult
upon Her, as evidenced in the story of Diana and the Children which has come
down to us from Italy in the Middle Ages, and attested to in earlier stories
of transgressions of Her privacy and prerogatives. And as the old ladies in
Little Italy used to say of people who called special attention to
themselves, I wish Michael Marconi a long life, with a mate suitable for
him, and many children that he will think of in his old age. And that all
the Gods and Goddesses of Roma, and Hellas and the entire Mediterranean
always keep Michael Marconi in Their minds and that They take hand in all
that Michael Marconi endeavors. I wish Michael Marconi all the success and
happiness that the Gods and Goddesses of Roma and Hellas and the whole of
the Mediterranean see fit to bestow upon him. As surely as I am typing
these words I do wish Michael Marconi to have no less than he warrants and
may Hermes Turms Mercurius guide Michael Marconi down those paths that are
proper for him. Ita vultis ita est.

Caius Aelius Ericius.

Subject:	Re: Togae
From:	Date:	Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:17:31 -0800

missmoon wrote:

> Cassi's is giving me fits. Not because the toga's so difficult -- it's
> not -- but because the wool is so heavy that it's a nightmare to work
> with. I'd certainly consider being the Offical NR Toga Seamstress if
> you're not wanting heavy wool!
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

Just how heavy is Cassius's wool? I'd like wool, but on the light side. But
I dno't know how to speak this wool-fabric lingo.

a very interested
Ericius