Subject:	New Religio Chat Room!
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:40:56 +0000

I have made a Religio Chat Room available at my website.
Go to <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp</a>
and go to the Religion link.

Best, Pythia

Subject:	Re: New Religio Chat Room!
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:15:01 +0000

Joseph Bloch wrote:


> Cool. Is there to be a regular chat schedule there? An agreed-upon time of
> meeting? Sounds like an excellent idea.

Thanks Germanicus, I have no schedule yet because I just launched it!

Pythia

Subject:	bad news for the Pont Max
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 00:37:19 -0500

The unofficial committee on Roman Law research came across this
tidbit...


"The State, Law and Religion: Pagan Rome" by Alan Watson

Written by one of our most respected legal historians, this book
analyzes the interaction of law and religion in ancient Rome. As such,
it offers a major new perspective on the nature and development of Roman
law in the early republic and empire before Christianity was recognized
and encouraged by Constantine. At the heart of the book is the apparent
paradox that Roman private law is remarkably secular even though, until
the late second century B.C., the Romans were regarded (and regarded
themselves) as the most religious people in the world.
Adding to the paradox was the fact that the interpretation of private
law which dealt with relations between private citizens, lay in the
hands of the College of Pontiffs, an advisory body of priests.
Alan Watson traces the roots of the paradox--and the way in which
Roman law ultimately developed--to the conflict between patricians and
plebeians that occurred in the mid-fifth century B.C. When the plebeians
demanded equality of all citizens before the law the patricians prepared
in response the Twelve Tables, a law code that included only matters
considered appropriate for plebeians. Public law, which dealt with
public officials and the governance of the state, was totally excluded
from the code, thus preserving gross inequalities between the classes of
Roman citizens. Religious law, deemed to be the preserve of patrician
priests, was also excluded.
As Watson notes, giving a monopoly of legal interpretation to the
College of Pontiffs was a shrewd move to maintain patrician advantages;
however, a fundamental consequence was that modes of legal reasoning
appropriate for judgments in sacred law were carried over to private
law, where they were often less appropriate. Such reasoning, Watson
contends, persists even in modern legal systems. After sketching the
tenets of Roman religion and the content of the Twelve Tables, Watson
proceeds to such matters as formalism in religion and law, religion and
property, and state religion versus alien religion. In his concluding
chapter, he compares the law that emerged after the adoption of the
Twelve Tables with the law that reportedly existed under the early Roman
kings.


-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Roman Warfare Info Needed
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:47:20 -0600 (CST)

Salvete, omnes!

Lucius Fannius said:

>Anyway, to cut to the chase, I would like your help in preaching (I
>mean presenting! :D) about the superiority of the Roman military.
>
><snip>
>
>Lucius Fannius
>Self appointed Pro-Rome lecturer.

Come to my arms, Fannius!! You are a man after my own heart!

Allow me to introduce myself. Lucia Maria Fimbria, better-known here
as Lucius Marius Fimbria, my Legionary alter-ego for my reenactor gigs.
I am commander (I guess) and, so far, sole member of Legio VI Victrix,
Dallas, Texas (US)...but I'm planning a major recruiting effort in the
spring, so hopefully I won't be a solo act for much longer.

I'm working as a computer tech right now, but that's only until I
finish my teaching degree. You guessed it--Ancient History, to junior
high and/or high-schoolers!! And you better believe we're going to
discuss Rome in my classes, oh, yea. Anybody nods off in my class is
likely to get a pilum thrown at them--! (Not to worry, I never hit
anything.)

>All I am asking for is links to websites that you recommend that have
>good military information. Basically that's it, of course if someone
>wants to take the time to type and share their personal knowledge,
>that would be greatly appreciated...<snip>

You got it, commilito (fellow-soldier)! Let me get my resources
together; I should have a fat juicy post for you in another day or two.
Reply to me privately at <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>, tell me what cla--------hi--------r> is for and the particulars of the assignment, and prepare to be
inundated!

Yours under the Eagles,
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:18:59 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, missmoon wrote:

> From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> The unofficial committee on Roman Law research came across this
> tidbit...
>
>
> "The State, Law and Religion: Pagan Rome" by Alan Watson
>
> Written by one of our most respected legal historians, this book
> analyzes the interaction of law and religion in ancient Rome. As such,
> it offers a major new perspective on the nature and development of Roman
> law in the early republic and empire before Christianity was recognized
> and encouraged by Constantine. At the heart of the book is the apparent
> paradox that Roman private law is remarkably secular even though, until
> the late second century B.C., the Romans were regarded (and regarded
> themselves) as the most religious people in the world.
> Adding to the paradox was the fact that the interpretation of private
> law which dealt with relations between private citizens, lay in the
> hands of the College of Pontiffs, an advisory body of priests.


It sounds like an interesting book. Do you have publishing info? Year of
publication, publisher, etc?


Palladius


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Primus Fabius
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:20:19 -0500 (EST)

Salvete! I am hoping that either Primus Fabius is still subscribed to this
list or has a current email for him. I am getting "host unknown" from the
address on the gens page and magistrates page.


Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Roman Law
From:	David Meadows dmeadows@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 06:41:50 -0700

Salve,

Having just recently joined your community et seeing discussion of Roman
law going on, in which I am formally trained, I'd be happy to offer my
services as iurisconsultus to anyone in need of it.

Papinianus

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	"Joseph Bloch" jkbloch@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:50:40 -0500

Salve!

February 1992, Univ of Georgia Pr; ISBN: 0820313874. Available through
Amazon.com for $35. It should definately be put up on the web site.

If you want to beat the rush and buy the book through amazon.com (and still
have Nova Roma get the credit), this link should work:

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0820313874/novaroma00A" target="_top" >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0820313874/novaroma00A</a>

(Indeed, you can order _any_ book-- Roman or not-- through amazon.com by
just changing the ISBN number in the above link.)

Vale,

Germanicus

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 2:19 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: bad news for the Pont Max


>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
>
>On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, missmoon wrote:
>
>> From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>>
>> The unofficial committee on Roman Law research came across this
>> tidbit...
>>
>>
>> "The State, Law and Religion: Pagan Rome" by Alan Watson
>>
>
>
>It sounds like an interesting book. Do you have publishing info? Year of
>publication, publisher, etc?
>
>
>Palladius
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:21:59 -0500

Salve, Palladius
>>
>> The unofficial committee on Roman Law research came across this
>> tidbit...
>> "The State, Law and Religion: Pagan Rome" by Alan Watson
>It sounds like an interesting book. Do you have publishing info? Year of
>publication, publisher, etc? Palladius


I have this book, read it last year.
ISBN 0-8203-1387-4
1992,University of Georgia Press

So what is the 'bad' news? :-) I have this book and read it last year. Did
you know that the three 'major' Flamens (Dialis, Martialis, Quirinalis)had
to be Patrician and where in the College Pontificium? I pointed this out to
Cassius when I was appointed Flamen Martialis and he says I have to have a
probationary period before I can be in the College. Why is this? If Nova
Roma is going to bring back the "Pax Deorum" we are going to have to start
doing things right. The Romans knew this, that is why they were such
conservative people they did not want to upset the balance by making too
many changes.

Vale, Cincinnatus

Subject:	Re: ego redite
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:38:57 -0500

Megas-Robinson wrote:
>
> From: Mega--------bin--------<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
>
> Salus et Fortuna Omnes, Salvete!
>
Where've you been??? Take the Oath and get to work!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:46:16 -0500

D. Iunius Palladius wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "The State, Law and Religion: Pagan Rome" by Alan Watson
> >
It's availble through Amazon.com. About $32.00. Just type in the title,
and be sure to check their other listings on Roman law -- but be
prepared, they're usually very expensive, about $80 or so.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Roman Law
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:51:19 -0500

David Meadows wrote:
>
> From: Dav--------eadows <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114232192237248190028232203026129208071" >dmeadows@--------</a>
>
> Salve,
>
> Having just recently joined your community et seeing discussion of Roman
> law going on, in which I am formally trained, I'd be happy to offer my
> services as iurisconsultus to anyone in need of it.
>
We're desperately in need of it!
I've got an informal research committee looking into civil law of the
Roman republic, so that we can set up some sort of laws and court
procedures here in Nova Roma. When the research has reached some sort of
conclusion, we can present a model to the Senate for ratification.
Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated!
E-mail me?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:59:16 -0500

Lucius wrote:
>
> So what is the 'bad' news? :-) I have this book and read it last year. Did
> you know that the three 'major' Flamens (Dialis, Martialis, Quirinalis)had
> to be Patrician and where in the College Pontificium? I pointed this out to
> Cassius when I was appointed Flamen Martialis and he says I have to have a
> probationary period before I can be in the College. Why is this?

I'd like to know that myself. According to the Constitution, the Vestals
are also supposed to be in the Collegium, but there's no historical
precedent, I guess.

Maybe the waiting period is to see if Mars really likes you? Or whether
he flings you head first into a burning lake of flame near the Avernus
and sends your rotting carcass to the Furies forever because he doesn't
like the brand of incense you offer him?

This sort of thing happens all the time in mythology. I'd buy the good
stuff if I were you.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Roman Law
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:08:50 -0500

Papinianus wrote,

>Having just recently joined your community et seeing discussion of Roman
>law going on, in which I am formally trained, I'd be happy to offer my
>services as iurisconsultus to anyone in need of it.

Welcome to Nova Roma, Papinianus!

We certainly need to develop the roman-legal aspect of our Republic and
your expertise will be very welcome. Of our two current Praetores Urbani L.
Cornelius Sulla is a modern American lawyer, and I am an English legal
historian with a limited roman law background (UG & some teaching & side
aspects of research). I gather from recent posts that there is also an
unofficial "roman law research group" (?). Hopefully, we will be able in
the near future to develop at least an introductory web page and a set of
links to some of the more useful and accessible roman law sites (Aberdeen
seems to be a particularly good one - but I keep forgetting to bring the
address home from work). We also need to develop "leges novae romae" as
contemplated in the Constitution - which raises the question: what period
should we model ourselves on? ...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: Think Twice Before Speaking Once
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:58:08 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


January 7, 1999
Year of Rome 2751

Avete et Salutatio... Romani

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
Tribune Militaris, NovaRoma Gens Velia
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=123143014056175043015098190036129" >gwmetz@--------</--------; 610-363-4982


A good adage I have often failed to heed is . . .

THINK TWICE - BEFORE SPEAKING ONCE

or as Carpenters often admonish . . .

MEASURE TWICE BEFORE CUTTING ONCE


Many of the those who post to this List would do well to
abide by the first listed phrase.


As always, I remain

Vestrum in Vinculi Republica Romani
Yours in the Bonds of the Republic of Rome


Gallio / George


O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A


ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
|| | | ||
|| |||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||
\/ | | \/
| |
| |




Augustus Velius Natalis = Robert Thomson
Servius Velius Germanicus = G. Frederick Schlegel

Subject:	Turn-over of Duties
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:07:19 -0500 (EST)

Wow! Am I glad you are back! I served this last few days (seemed like
forever) as the Pumpkin Bread and Cake Chef / Expert (mostly taster!!!!)
and I now before all of Nova Roma return the "Chef's Hat" ala NR to he
who is the first in NR Culinary Arts

Ave Venator!!!

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: bad news for the Pont Max
From:	"Joseph Bloch" jkbloch@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:38:25 -0500

Salve,

I can't speak to the waiting period for the Flamines to join the Collegium
Pontificum, but the Vestals' inclusion in the Collegium comes from the OCD,
under the entry "pontifex/pontifices".

Vale,

Germanicus

Subject:	Re: ego redite
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jan 1999 23:58:53 -0600

Hailsa et Ave Flavia Claudia, Salvete Omnes!

Be pleased to note that I did submit my Oath to the List soon after I
composed "ego redite." I await further instructions on how I may be of
service as Quaestor. I am in process of finishing the last draft of the
Mead manuel and a formal Sodalis proposal (which will include a "Taverna
Felis Montanus Recipe Booklet" Proposal). I am also writing for the Asatru
Folk Assembly (an armoring manuel and a Faithful magazine essay).

Busy, Busy I shall bee...

Bis spater and Valete!

Venator

missmoon wrote:

> From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> Where've you been??? Take the Oath and get to work!
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

P.S. I was about 90 miles away, in W. Springfield, MA. My annual contact
with my family and in-laws. Not to be cold-hearted, but it's hard to visit
frequently from 1/3 of a continent away. Them I miss. The sense of History
in New England I miss. But, I don't miss the "Coastal" lifestyle. I'm
considering a road trip in the late summer to visit Asafolk, and would like
to visit Roman friends also. But, that's real tentative. - Venii.