Subject:	Re: Roman Law
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:07:21 -0500 (EST)

In regard to your offer of Roman Law Consultus, I don't understand very
much about it and I guess I should being the first level of an elected
officer (Quaestor). Any beginning books that you could recommend and
any insights into a over view and generaliztion would be appreciated. I
don't hink I will ever speak before the Senate, but I have some time in
the next couple of weeks to absorb something of the law of Roman kind,
if you are at liesure. My thanks for offering your services.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Clothing questions
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:09:39 -0500 (EST)

If I may enter this discussion what is a clavis?? and how is it used,
portrayed, etc. in Romn Clothing????

Marcus Minucius Audens.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Turn-over of Duties
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jan 1999 00:03:55 -0600

My dear friend Audens, Salus et Fortuna!

I gladly take up the Chef's Hat, and the Brewer's Apron. (Though on some
days I trade both for the leather kilt of the armorer or the ink-stained
robe of the scribe.)

Ave Submariner!

Vale - Venator

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Wow! Am I glad you are back! I served this last few days (seemed like
> forever) as the Pumpkin Bread and Cake Chef / Expert (mostly taster!!!!)
> and I now before all of Nova Roma return the "Chef's Hat" ala NR to he
> who is the first in NR Culinary Arts
>
> Ave Venator!!!
>
> Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Roman citizens of plain right could also be priests of Cybele!!!
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:35:04 -0000

Salvete omnes!

There is, I think, a mistake on the Nova Roma Web page about the priests of Cybele.
It seems that the Archigalli priests were romans of plain right, and not eunuchs. Their initiation into the Mysteries was through a taurobolium and/or criobolium (sacrifice of a ram), in which, after sacrificing the animal, its genitals were cut in place of their own. They were excempt from auto-mutilation. It is not a coincidence that the body of archigalli was creater already during the Empire due to the reformation of the cult (the turobolium was only introduced during the 2nd century AD in the reign of Antoninus Pius).

So, there are good news for the Nova Roman worshippers of Cybele and Attis!

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Roman Law
From:	David Meadows dmeadows@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jan 1999 06:50:54 -0700

Salvete,

Since there does seem to be some interest in my services, I should probably
make a more formal intro of my self.

I'm a ph.d. candidate in Roman history currently finishing a dissertation
which focuses on Roman law as evidence for social history; I'm also in
teacher's college. I'm also a major promoter of ancient culture and have a
website under construction (computer crash a couple months ago then again
last sunday are really slowing this down), as well as the producer of a
couple of newsletters (The Ancient Worldon Television and Explorator) that
are free and distributed via email. I also have a (for a fee) online Latin
course.

The informal committee is doing a good thing looking at the work of Alan
Watson, although there is more 'law' in practically any of his other works
than the one I saw mentioned (*The State, Law, and Religion*).
Unfortunately, any one of those other works is also very much more
soporific than that one. Yes, the pontifex maximus was an important figure
in Roman law, but after the 3rd century b.c. or so, that influence tended
to be more coincidental than traditional (i.e. a pontifex with legal
knowledge had more influence rather that a pontifex being pontifex because
of his legal knowledge). The great houses of a few, especially the
Scaevolae would have more legal influence than the pontifex as the years go
on, and the 'engine' of Roman law was the Praetor's edict (on which
Watson's JRS article in the 1968 volume is useful).

That said, if folks want a quick read on the sources of Roman law, a good
recent work is O.F. Robinson's *The Sources of Roman Law* (catchy title)
which also has a good basic bibliography.

I'll post more on the weekend ... if folks have some specific questions
and/or can give me a quick run down of what has been done to date in this
area and what is being striven (is that a word?) for, feel free to drop me
a line!

Valete,

Papinianus

Subject:	Itty Bitty Updates (long post)
From:	"Mater" aicrys@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:32:56 -0600

Salvete --

OK, call me addicted, but I am receiving mail from the list again
(although it is immediately filtered into it's own folder), and
seriously considering becoming a sort of Nova Roma Bill Wilson
(which would require another email list, of course...LOL).

Terry is well and I am still sick. I have an ear infection that doesn't
want to heal and medication I keep forgetting to take (these two
may be related . ya think?). Contractions are getting more and
more painful and a smidge longer. I should contact my dear Dex
and ask if Lapis plans to arrive earlier than the help that is
supposed to arrive for his sister. It would be strictly personal
information, as somehow I am sure the doctor will not take the
word of a dead chicken as medically sound reason for maternal
panic on my part (then, I *am* a pregnant woman and expected to
act strange right about now). I am at 38 days until Feb 15 (not an
official date, but it's all I have right now) and getting wiggier every
day it seems. I actually dragged Terry and a bunch of groceries
home in our toboggan yesterday. I paid for it, as the toboggan,
complete with Toddler, probably weighed 100 pounds.

My computer is crashing around my head (no virus, just a ...
crappy computer that has decided to destroy itself cluster by
cluster). Hopefully I will be able to connect to the web long enough
to continue working. If not, I have my ways to get updated on NR
happenings.

I am thrilled to see Venii back. I missed him, and almost starved
to death waiting for him to return <G>.

I have been told that there is a celebrity on the list, and basically
that I am showing my ignorance in never having heard of him
(::::::hanging head in shame::::::::). But unless he worked at
UICC/UIC (where my mom worked until she retired -- and in the
History Department no less)) when I was a kid, he probably hasn't
heard of me either, so I figure we're even.

The Back Alley is doing well. We rarely trip over 'authentic' Roman
issues, but we have fun, so who cares!! To get bored reading posts
to the list requires true talent!! With my computer problems, there
is a second moderator. So if you want to have some fun and, of
course, are not easily offended, email Sulla and he'll add you (right
now I don't think I could stay connected long enough to do it). We
have, perhaps, the most openminded and openmouthed Romans
Nova Roma has to offer. Just a warning -- or a temptation.

OK.....I think I covered everything.

Valete......
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina
Prima Iunia Terrelina
Lapis Stone
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>

Subject:	Re: Cybele
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:52:00 -0000

Salve!

>Now THIS is news! I've never seen any info regarding this. What primary
>sources have you found? The only primary information I've seen have been
Roman
>authors speaking ill of the "euneuch priests of Cybele", and an edict
barring
>these euneuchs from Citizenship. I'm quite interested to hear about this!
:)

There are no primary sources that explicitly say that. Nevertheless,
archigalli are never mentioned before the introduction of the archigalli,
which leads some scholars to believe in a connection between the two (i.e
the archigalli's responsibility was the taurobolium, reason for the creation
of the new body). After that, the galli lost the previous prestige and were
relegated to a secondary role in the cult, as their sacrifice was not
understood by the roman society. Moreover, it is generally accepted that the
taurobolium was a substitute, an expiatory rite, which lead to the
conclusion that archigalli performed it instead of the automutilation as a
sacrifice to Cybele.
Another error in the page is the description of the 'sacerdotes'. These
could be either men or women. In fact, leading each community of faithful
there was one male sacerdos and one female sacerdos, appointed by the
Quindecenvirs (Collegium Pontificum) (v. CIL X, 3698). When the community
grew, a sacerdotal hierarchy was formed (taken from epigraphical sources):
summus sacerdos, pontifex, sacerdos in primo, sacerdos in secundo loco,
sacerdos maxima, etc.
The galli were commanded by the sacerdotes (v. Plinio HN.35, 165), which
seem to be roman citizens as well, and not emasculated asiatics.
Conclusion: The hirarchy of the cult of Cybele seems to have been the
following:
1- Archigalli: Major priesthoods, responsible for the taurobolium, the
finances and ideology of the temples.
2- Sacerdotes: Leaders of faithful communities, possibly playing a part on
the liturgy.
3- Galli: Asiatic eunuch priests. They may have only given assistance to the
cult, as they were not understood by roman society, which nevertheless
accepted their extreme sacrifice and devotion.
4- Maybe there were more servants to assist the priests during the rites...




-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
To: amg <amg>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Cybele


>Salve,
>
>Now THIS is news! I've never seen any info regarding this. What primary
>sources have you found? The only primary information I've seen have been
Roman
>authors speaking ill of the "euneuch priests of Cybele", and an edict
barring
>these euneuchs from Citizenship. I'm quite interested to hear about this!
:)
>
>Vale,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 99-01-08 06:28:43 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Salvete omnes!
>
> There is, I think, a mistake on the Nova Roma Web page about the priests
of
>Cybele.
> It seems that the Archigalli priests were romans of plain right, and not
>eunuchs. Their initiation into the Mysteries was through a taurobolium
and/or
>criobolium (sacrifice of a ram), in which, after sacrificing the animal,
its
>genitals were cut in place of their own. They were excempt from auto-
>mutilation. It is not a coincidence that the body of archigalli was creater
>already during the Empire due to the reformation of the cult (the
turobolium
>was only introduced during the 2nd century AD in the reign of Antoninus
Pius).
>
> So, there are good news for the Nova Roman worshippers of Cybele and
Attis!
>
> Valete!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: Roman Law
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:27:56 -0500 (EST)

I am very pleased to meet you. The NR is moving forward after the
election, and trying to get some of the things done that need to be
done. The Senate and senior magistrates are at the moment considering
some matters left over from before the elections and looking ino how
best to tackle the task of "Tribes and Centurys" and how to determine
who is doing what and who is representing who.

I am a retired Naval Officer and Engineering Asst for a submarine
shipbuilding firm. I have a Master's Degree in History and Education.
I have always been facinated by things Roman, in my earlier days as a
military power, and more recetly sas a law-giver and builder. I am an
lected officer of the lowest order, but would like to understand what I
have heard regarding Roman Law. Thank you for the basic reference.
While I am getting that book, please discourse about the grades of
Praetors, symbolism of Lictors and the general conduct of a Roman Court
hearing complaints from the people. My impression is that bribery and
paid speakers rendered much of the Court Rituals ineffective, but that
really does not ring true to what the Roman Law brought to the new
provinces like Spain for instance. I lived in Spain for two years, and
took the opertunity as a Naval Officer to watch some of their court
proceedings which are said to be similar to Roman Law in the provinces
during the Republic and early Empire.

If you would care to comment o the above, I would be pleased to be an
entranced listener.

Marcus Mincius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	AWARENESS OF THE PAST IN THE ROMAN WORLD Conference
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:13:43 EST

Salve This Iooks like fun.

On Saturday January 30, 1999, the Classics Graduate students of McMaster
University will be holding their first Graduate student conference
entitled:
This one day conference will explore aspects of the Roman world.
Registration information (and forms) can be found on the web, or can be
obtained by contacting the Conference Committee at either of the addresses
listed below.
To register, please fill out the attached form or visit our Website at:
<a href="http://humlink.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~alders/conference" target="_top" >http://humlink.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~alders/conference</a>.

Further inquiries can be sent to Audrey McSherry at: <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=029158066122056209170098203163129208071" >--------erha@--------</a>

PROGRAMME

9:15 Introductions
9:20 - 10:30 Keynote Speaker: Dr. Jocelyn Penny Small (Rutgers
University)
"Time in Space: Pictorial Narrative in Classical Art"
10:30 - 10:40 BREAK - Coffee and Tea
10:40 - 11:00 "Rearming Capaneus" - Rob Nau (McMaster University)
11:00 - 11:25 "Livy's View of the Remote Past" - Kelly Pilch (University
of Western Ontario)
11:25 - 11:50 "Apoikestesis: The Mythological Significance of Augustus'
Calendric Acts" - Benjamin Stevens (University of Chicago)
12:00 - 1:00 LUNCH
1:15 - 1:35 "The Caduceus and the Punic Wars: Sign of Peace or Roman
Myth" - Jennifer Moore (McMaster University)
1:35 - 2:00 "Captured in Stone: The Iconography of the Ara Pacis
Augustae" -Jenara Franklin (University of Saskatchewan)
2:00 - 2:25 "Poetry Without Metre: Inventio and the Writing of Roman
History"- Emmanuel Bourbouhakis (University of Western Ontario)
2:25 - 2:40 BREAK - Coffee and Tea
2:40 - 3:00 "Signum et Aetas: The Sequence of Ages in the Graeco-Roman
World" - Tim Pettipiece (University of Guelph)
3:00 - 3:20 "Foundation Iconography on Roman Coins" - Christa McInnis
(Concordia University)
3:20 - 3:45 "Ammianus Marcellinus' Conception of the Past" - Eric
Fournier - (Universite de Montreal)
3:45 - 4:05 "Magister Gregorius: The History of Pagan Rome through
Christian Eyes" - Justine Dainard and Tricia Lang
(University of British Columbia)
4:05 - 4:10 Concluding Remarks
4:30 Reception


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre-Registration Form
First Annual Student Conference
Saturday January 30, 1999

Please submit this form with your check to arrive no later than Friday
January 22, 1999 to:

Bridget Day, Department of Classics, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON,
L8S 4M2.

The registration fee is $10.00 for students and $15.00 for other persons.
This includes a buffet lunch (cash bar) and morning/afternoon coffee,
juices, and a wine and cheese recpetion etc.


Name __________________________ Address___________________________

___________________________________________________________________


Please make your cheque payable to McMaster University and enclose the
following information:


I enclose payment for _______students @ $10.00 = $__________;
________persons @ $15.00 = $___________. Total $________.


Please list on the reverse of this form the names of person other than
yourself for whom you are pre-registering.

---------------------------------
Dr. Pedar W. Foss
Area One Humanities Program
Building 250, Room 251-J
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-2020
Tel. (650) 723-5419
Fax. (650) 723-7099
e-mail: <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=197044253112099135090082190036" >pfo--------...</a>

Vale
Q. Fabius

Subject:	Roman Military Equipment Conference
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:38:58 EST

Salve
Dr. Bishop of Arma hast just imformed me of the venue and dates for the
next Roman Military Equipment Conference confirmed this morning. It
will be at South Shields, England (probably based in the Customs House) on
24-26th September 1999, and is being organised by Bill Griffiths and
Alex Croom for the Arbeia Society in conjunction with Tyne and Wear Museums.

There will be papers on general subjects on the Friday and on the
central theme (reconstruction and reenactment) on the Saturday. On
Saturday afternoon there will demonstrations in Arbeia fort itself,
and on Sunday a visit to the new reconstructions and facilities at
Wallsend (which will include a bathhouse, museum, and the newly laid
out fort... although not all may be finished by then ;-). It would be
nice if we could get at least one representative of every British
Roman military reenactment group there (Arma has brought
the conference back to the UK because too many people have
complained about it wandering
all over the continent), even if not in kit, but of course overseas
attendees would be more than welcome too.

Accommodation will be in local Bed & Breakfasts, but a number of floor spaces
will also be made available for the financially challenged. Details
in *Arma*, of course, and another posting will follow to this list,
ROMARCH, and Britarch when more information is available. Don't
forget that there is also the ROMEC website
(<a href="http://pobox.com/~jrmes/romec.htm" target="_top" >http://pobox.com/~jrmes/romec.htm</a>) which will be regularly updated
as and when Dr Bishop gets firmer details.

Vale
QFM

Subject:	more off-topic trivia
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jan 1999 20:11:27 -0500

I've got to quit reading strange stuff.
Okay, the late Ian Fleming modeled his fictional hero James Bond partly
on his cousin, who served with Fleming in the secret service during
WWII. The cousin is a well-known Brit actor.

Who is "the real" James Bond?

Martini stirred, not shaken, for the winner!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: more off-topic trivia
From:	"Joseph Bloch" jkbloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:33:45 -0500

Hmmm... David Niven? I know he was Ian Fleming's first choice to play Bond.
(And of course he in fact did... now _there's_ a lolipop for the person who
can finger the movie that David Niven played James Bond...)

Germanicus

-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:14 PM
Subject: [novaroma] more off-topic trivia


>From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
>I've got to quit reading strange stuff.
>Okay, the late Ian Fleming modeled his fictional hero James Bond partly
>on his cousin, who served with Fleming in the secret service during
>WWII. The cousin is a well-known Brit actor.
>
>Who is "the real" James Bond?
>
>Martini stirred, not shaken, for the winner!
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Re: more off-topic trivia
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jan 1999 19:37:40 -0800

Below----->

missmoon wrote:

> From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> I've got to quit reading strange stuff.
> Okay, the late Ian Fleming modeled his fictional hero James Bond partly
> on his cousin, who served with Fleming in the secret service during
> WWII. The cousin is a well-known Brit actor.
>
> Who is "the real" James Bond?
>
> Martini stirred, not shaken, for the winner!

David Niven. (Also of the H.L.I.)

Subject:	Re: more off-topic trivia
From:	missmoon missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jan 1999 22:52:38 -0500

Joseph Bloch wrote:
>
> From: "Jos--------Bloch" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=045202250078193194170218163036129208" >jkbloch@--------</a>
>
> Hmmm... David Niven? I know he was Ian Fleming's first choice to play Bond.
> (And of course he in fact did... now _there's_ a lolipop for the person who
> can finger the movie that David Niven played James Bond...)
>
It was that abominable Casino Royale.
But the answer isn't Niven.

-- FC