| Subject: |
Re: Sodalitas Militiarum |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:07:18 -0500 (EST) |
|
I thank you most sincerly for your too kind words and sentiments. They
flow gently upon my ear, but I fear that they far exceed my poor
abilities. Never-the-less, I appreciate them greatly.
I appreciate your recommendation of the gentleman from Pannonia, and I
shall place your recommendations with the others that I have received.
Just as soon as he replies to my message and answers the Consul's
questions, I will review his responses and send my recommendation on to
the Consul as I have been directed.
It seems like everyone knows him but me, and nobody but you, the Consul
and I know that I have been give the task of reviewing his answers to
the Consul. I've had one man ask to join the Sodalis, and I have sent
him my ideas, and await his response.
Good to talk with you and I thank you again for your kind thoughts and
words;
Your Most Humble Servant;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Update on your consuls |
| From: |
"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:38:12 -0500 (EST) |
|
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Gaius Marius Merullus wrote:
> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Deci Iuni et alii
> :4. Establishing a fund for a physical site - As I promised during the
> :campaign, I would like to, as soon as possible, establish a fund that
> :will eventually be used to buy a physical center for Nova Roma. While this
> :may appear to be jumping the gun, I think it important that we look to
> :the future now by setting aside a portion of all incoming money for this
> :goal. The fund itself I hope will increase voluntary contributions to Nova
> :Roma and encourage people to buy from the Macellum.
> than build a homeland. Otherwise we are not going to move forward toward
> that point, at which we really would want, or need, a homeland. Even a
> legionary training camp, as big and expensive as it would probably be, would
> be much more doable in our lifetimes than building a homeland. Let's not
> start putting our resources into something so far away.
I am proposing putting a portion of our money aside for this goal and only
a portion. True, something like this is years away but will never happen
if we don't start thinking about it now.
Some people have talked about buying islands or 10 or twenty square miles
of land. My goal is the stated 108 acre spiritual capitol mentioned on the
website since the Founding of Nova Roma. I think that this goal is a
reasonable one.
I'm not sure the term "homeland" is an entirely apt term, it has the
connotations of the "homelands" that South Africa set aside for blacks
during the apartheid era. Few if any of us probably would live there but
it would be a a spiritual center for us all to look to.
It would not be a homeland or a city but a small spiritual center and
capitol.
> :The debate over the last few days reminds me of the need for us to keep in
> :mind that one of our stated goals is to have a physical capitol
> :someday. I hope it will be in my lifetime. The place to start is with
> :money, however small a fund. I am working out the details with my
> :quaestor Patricia Cassia and will let you know when this fund will be
> :ready to be established. It will be one first small step towards that
> :eventual goal.
>
> Well, I agree with Ericius that the debate probably started in jest. Its
> author didn't sign the message with a Roman name, so I assume that he/she is
> not a NR civis. The only thing about the debate that struck me as realistic
> was Sulla's reply to the effect that it would be a massive, expensive
> undertaking.
Well, most of the update message I sent was already written, I just added
a few relevant sentences to touch on topics people have discussed over the
last few days. It seems that the ideas were in the air.
It will be a massive, expensive undertaking, and all the more reason to
plan for it now, if only to establish a fund that in the future will be
used by the then leaders of the Republic to do the actual job of planning
and building.
On to more general matters touched on in yours and other messages.
Where our money will be going to in the next few months:
1. The website This is an ongoing expense which Marcus Cassius still pays
for out of his pocket. This cannot continue.
2. The Eagle. Flavia Claudia pays for this out of her pocket. Your
subscription money goes directly to the treasury, not to the cost of the
Eagle. Like the site, this situation cannot continue indefinitely.
Both of these Senators have, without complaint, helped carry Nova Roma
financially out of a sense of duty to our nation. They cannot be expected
to do this forever and will not have to.
2. The coin and stamp project. This will be our biggest single expenditure
to date. Marcus Cassius has all the figures on what this will cost. It
will not be cheap but the benefits will be enormous, in money brought in
as well as physical tokens of sovereignty.
3. Advertising? The idea of buying an ad(s) is a good one. I am not sure
that a newspaper would be the most efficient use of our money though. I
would rather aim at historical magazines that aim at the non-specialist,
the armchair historian, and also in selected periodicals that aim at the
professional historian. The ads would probably be cheaper than newspapers
and would be aimed at a somewhat more receptive and historically
literate audience.
> You know, the stamp and coin proposals sound good to me, and they seem very
> much worth doing. I hate to see money that I send to Nova Roma, and
> contribute via the Macellum, invested in a city-building fund rather than go
> to support feasible projects like those.
Well, I was hoping that a portion of all incoming money (say 5 or 10%)
would go to that fund. I think this goal is part of our raison d'etre,
our reason for being.
Granted it would be a small step but it would help us remind ourselves
that we are serious about this goal. I will probably wait to officially
propose this though until I see how things are looking over the next few months
financially in regards to the Stamp and Coin project.
**warning private opinion, not an official statement of the consul :) :
I never gave my suggestion for a stamp. I think the Capitoline
Wolf, sans the Renaissance Romulus and Remus would be a good stamp.****
In service to Rome,
Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
Seneca
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma Goals |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:45:53 EST |
|
Salvete,
On advertising: I am doubtful about the usefulness of newspaper ads. I think
that ads in special interest magazines about history and art would be more
productive.
On the building fund: Does the first physical Nova Roma center have to be the
100 acres of marble basilicas and temples envisioned by our founders ? I
don't think so.
I suggest that there should be two building funds. The first building fund
should be devoted to the creation and support of local Nova Roma centers where
and when it is practical to do so. It would be useful to have a discussion on
just what a local center should be - how big, what kind of facilities, what
should it look like, etc. The headquarters building or principia found in
Roman forts is a good starting point for design considerations. Perhaps it
would be a good idea to have a sodalicium set up for the express purpose of
developing design parameters for various types and sizes of local centers. If
Nova Roma succeeds in developing beyond the fantasy world of the Internet,
then someday there will be little (or big) Nova Roma centers scattered all
across the landscape.
The second building fund would support the creation of our 100 acres of marble
buildings. I think this is a very long term goal, and I think it is much too
soon to seriously discuss site location. But, things can develop much faster
than anyone can imagine. Here again it might be useful to have a sodalicium
set up to discuss and develop theoretical plans for this most important of
Nova Roma locations.
In the meantime, I look forward toward the completion of the stamp and coin
projects, and I will be sending a contribution to the Treasury tomorrow.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: New provinces |
| From: |
hadji hadji@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:00:08 +0100 |
|
Salvete Qvirites!
I thank you all for your replays.
I am very thankfull for your support and notes and I will do everything
to justify your confidence.
I will prepare my program for these provinces and will answer to the
questions of our magistrates ASAP.
Multas Gratias et Bene Vale
Alexander
P.S. I am sorry for this discussion provoked by my person.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Update on your consuls |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:52:01 -0000 |
|
Salve!
>We are continuing our search for Governors of various provinciae. The
>debate over Alexander Probus shows what I think is a problem in provincial
>governorships. It is the term Praetor or Propraetor. A praetor is an
>elected official, second only to the consuls. A propraetor--which is what
>our governors are--has the imperium of a praetor without actually holding
>the office. Potentially, with all the countries worldwide, there could be
>hundreds of praetors. I think that perhaps the best solution would be to
>change the term from propraetor to [I am open to suggestions here]. I have
>thought of using the term legatus or gubernator.
I'm still not sure 100%, but I think that Lusitania was governed by Praetors
and Propraetors alike... Nevertheless, epigraphical monuments from the
Empire period only show Legati ProPraetores and Procuratores:
- Legatus Augusti pro Praetore Provinciae Lusitaniae
- Procurator Provinciae Lusitaniae
Hope this helps...
By the way, what is the correct usage: Propraetor or Pro Praetore?
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 9:08 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Update on your consuls
>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
>
>Salvete! I realize that I have been pretty silent since the beginning of
>the year and figured it was time to keep Nova Roma up to date on what the
>consuls are doing. There are several projects that are in the works at
>the moment:
>
>1. The Comitiae -- The censors, consuls and A. Tullius Callidus, Tribune
>Plebis, are working to get the comitiae up and running. The first to be
>set up will probably be the Comitia Populi and the Comitia Plebis.
>
>2. Appointing governors for Provinces - Ongoing for the Consuls and Senate
>are filling the empty governors' posts in provinces that as yet have none.
>Most recently we voted to appoint Gaius Drusus Domitianus as Governor of
>the Great Lakes Province.
>
>We are continuing our search for Governors of various provinciae. The
>debate over Alexander Probus shows what I think is a problem in provincial
>governorships. It is the term Praetor or Propraetor. A praetor is an
>elected official, second only to the consuls. A propraetor--which is what
>our governors are--has the imperium of a praetor without actually holding
>the office. Potentially, with all the countries worldwide, there could be
>hundreds of praetors. I think that perhaps the best solution would be to
>change the term from propraetor to [I am open to suggestions here]. I have
>thought of using the term legatus or gubernator. If a former praetor
>became a governor, he would correctly take the title of propraetor and a
>former consul would be a proconsul. Either of these two would perhaps
>oversee several provinces including their own, with the legati or
>gubernatores reporting to them.
>
>I think a change in semantics might allay the concern of some people that
>we have too many praetors. We do need contact people on the local and
>national level, however, to promote Nova Roma, no matter what they are
>called.
>
>3. Nova Roma Publications - This is a project that I brought up in the
>campaign that I want to implement soon. Rather than have individuals sell
>individual publications on their own sites through links in the Macellum,
>I am thinking of a central page for all publications sold through Nova
>Roma. This way, individuals who may have only one publication available
>would not have to maintain an entire site for it. Also, since they would
>be Nova Roma Publications, under the auspices of our nation, it would be
>only fitting that they be sold by Nova Roma Herself, if this is practical.
>I am working on a booklet of my own to publish through Nova Roma Pub, thus
>paving the way for what I hope will be a variety of literature sold by us.
>Not only will publications allow us to promote and share ideas in hard
>copy but also will bring money into the treasury.
>
>4. Establishing a fund for a physical site - As I promised during the
>campaign, I would like to, as soon as possible, establish a fund that
>will eventually be used to buy a physical center for Nova Roma. While this
>may appear to be jumping the gun, I think it important that we look to
>the future now by setting aside a portion of all incoming money for this
>goal. The fund itself I hope will increase voluntary contributions to Nova
>Roma and encourage people to buy from the Macellum.
>
>The debate over the last few days reminds me of the need for us to keep in
>mind that one of our stated goals is to have a physical capitol
>someday. I hope it will be in my lifetime. The place to start is with
>money, however small a fund. I am working out the details with my
>quaestor Patricia Cassia and will let you know when this fund will be
>ready to be established. It will be one first small step towards that
>eventual goal.
>
>5. Increasing the treasury - We are always seeking ways to increase the
>treasury.
>
>When you can, give money to Nova Roma. Contributions are still
>not tax deductible, but we hope to have this done before the end of
>February. Still, any contributions to the treasury will soon be put to
>good use. Our next big financial cost will be the coinage project that
>Marcus Cassius is working on. All it is waiting on, from what I
>understand, is the money.
>
>Buying from the Macellum:
>
>Remember, Pythia has her jewelry business through the Macellum. A portion
>of all her sales go to the treasury.
>
>As pointed out by Marcus Cassius, we have an arrangement with JBL Statues
>that gives Nova Romans a discount and sends a portion of the money to Nova
>Roma.
>
>The service we provide through Amazon.com also sends some money to the
>Nova Roma treasury.
>
>Adding businesses to the Macellum:
>
>A citizen soon hopes to open a book search service through the Macellum,
>which will specialize in out of print or hard to find books on Classical
>subjects.
>
>Another statuary company perhaps? Many people have suggested adding
>another statuary company to the Macellum, perhaps one that is more upscale
>both in quality and cost compared to JBL. Design Toscano or Great
>Alexander have been suggestions. Can we support having links to 2
>companies? Certainly there would be more variety to choose from.
>
>
>Well Cives, these are some of things that we have been working on. If you
>have any questions or comments I will be glad to address them.
>
>In service to Rome,
>
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>
> Seneca
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>
> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Update on your consuls |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:56:40 -0000 |
|
P.S. =)
I've also found inscriptions which say simply:
Legatus Provinciae Lusitaniae
My sugestion is the following:
- When the Governor was previously a Consul use Proconsul
- When the Governor was previously a Praetor use Propraetor (is pro Praetore
more correct?)
- When the Governor is not a former Praetor or Consul use Legatus.
Valete!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo <amg>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 10:45 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Update on your consuls
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salve!
>
>>We are continuing our search for Governors of various provinciae. The
>>debate over Alexander Probus shows what I think is a problem in provincial
>>governorships. It is the term Praetor or Propraetor. A praetor is an
>>elected official, second only to the consuls. A propraetor--which is what
>>our governors are--has the imperium of a praetor without actually holding
>>the office. Potentially, with all the countries worldwide, there could be
>>hundreds of praetors. I think that perhaps the best solution would be to
>>change the term from propraetor to [I am open to suggestions here]. I have
>>thought of using the term legatus or gubernator.
>I'm still not sure 100%, but I think that Lusitania was governed by
Praetors
>and Propraetors alike... Nevertheless, epigraphical monuments from the
>Empire period only show Legati ProPraetores and Procuratores:
>- Legatus Augusti pro Praetore Provinciae Lusitaniae
>- Procurator Provinciae Lusitaniae
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>By the way, what is the correct usage: Propraetor or Pro Praetore?
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: D. Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 9:08 PM
>Subject: [novaroma] Update on your consuls
>
>
>>From: "D. Iunius Palladius" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>>
>>
>>Salvete! I realize that I have been pretty silent since the beginning of
>>the year and figured it was time to keep Nova Roma up to date on what the
>>consuls are doing. There are several projects that are in the works at
>>the moment:
>>
>>1. The Comitiae -- The censors, consuls and A. Tullius Callidus, Tribune
>>Plebis, are working to get the comitiae up and running. The first to be
>>set up will probably be the Comitia Populi and the Comitia Plebis.
>>
>>2. Appointing governors for Provinces - Ongoing for the Consuls and Senate
>>are filling the empty governors' posts in provinces that as yet have none.
>>Most recently we voted to appoint Gaius Drusus Domitianus as Governor of
>>the Great Lakes Province.
>>
>>We are continuing our search for Governors of various provinciae. The
>>debate over Alexander Probus shows what I think is a problem in provincial
>>governorships. It is the term Praetor or Propraetor. A praetor is an
>>elected official, second only to the consuls. A propraetor--which is what
>>our governors are--has the imperium of a praetor without actually holding
>>the office. Potentially, with all the countries worldwide, there could be
>>hundreds of praetors. I think that perhaps the best solution would be to
>>change the term from propraetor to [I am open to suggestions here]. I have
>>thought of using the term legatus or gubernator. If a former praetor
>>became a governor, he would correctly take the title of propraetor and a
>>former consul would be a proconsul. Either of these two would perhaps
>>oversee several provinces including their own, with the legati or
>>gubernatores reporting to them.
>>
>>I think a change in semantics might allay the concern of some people that
>>we have too many praetors. We do need contact people on the local and
>>national level, however, to promote Nova Roma, no matter what they are
>>called.
>>
>>3. Nova Roma Publications - This is a project that I brought up in the
>>campaign that I want to implement soon. Rather than have individuals sell
>>individual publications on their own sites through links in the Macellum,
>>I am thinking of a central page for all publications sold through Nova
>>Roma. This way, individuals who may have only one publication available
>>would not have to maintain an entire site for it. Also, since they would
>>be Nova Roma Publications, under the auspices of our nation, it would be
>>only fitting that they be sold by Nova Roma Herself, if this is practical.
>>I am working on a booklet of my own to publish through Nova Roma Pub, thus
>>paving the way for what I hope will be a variety of literature sold by us.
>>Not only will publications allow us to promote and share ideas in hard
>>copy but also will bring money into the treasury.
>>
>>4. Establishing a fund for a physical site - As I promised during the
>>campaign, I would like to, as soon as possible, establish a fund that
>>will eventually be used to buy a physical center for Nova Roma. While this
>>may appear to be jumping the gun, I think it important that we look to
>>the future now by setting aside a portion of all incoming money for this
>>goal. The fund itself I hope will increase voluntary contributions to Nova
>>Roma and encourage people to buy from the Macellum.
>>
>>The debate over the last few days reminds me of the need for us to keep in
>>mind that one of our stated goals is to have a physical capitol
>>someday. I hope it will be in my lifetime. The place to start is with
>>money, however small a fund. I am working out the details with my
>>quaestor Patricia Cassia and will let you know when this fund will be
>>ready to be established. It will be one first small step towards that
>>eventual goal.
>>
>>5. Increasing the treasury - We are always seeking ways to increase the
>>treasury.
>>
>>When you can, give money to Nova Roma. Contributions are still
>>not tax deductible, but we hope to have this done before the end of
>>February. Still, any contributions to the treasury will soon be put to
>>good use. Our next big financial cost will be the coinage project that
>>Marcus Cassius is working on. All it is waiting on, from what I
>>understand, is the money.
>>
>>Buying from the Macellum:
>>
>>Remember, Pythia has her jewelry business through the Macellum. A portion
>>of all her sales go to the treasury.
>>
>>As pointed out by Marcus Cassius, we have an arrangement with JBL Statues
>>that gives Nova Romans a discount and sends a portion of the money to Nova
>>Roma.
>>
>>The service we provide through Amazon.com also sends some money to the
>>Nova Roma treasury.
>>
>>Adding businesses to the Macellum:
>>
>>A citizen soon hopes to open a book search service through the Macellum,
>>which will specialize in out of print or hard to find books on Classical
>>subjects.
>>
>>Another statuary company perhaps? Many people have suggested adding
>>another statuary company to the Macellum, perhaps one that is more upscale
>>both in quality and cost compared to JBL. Design Toscano or Great
>>Alexander have been suggestions. Can we support having links to 2
>>companies? Certainly there would be more variety to choose from.
>>
>>
>>Well Cives, these are some of things that we have been working on. If you
>>have any questions or comments I will be glad to address them.
>>
>>In service to Rome,
>>
>>
>>Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>>
>> Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
>>
>> Seneca
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>
>> "Such things have often happened and still happen,
>> and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
>>
>> Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
>> Extant 331-363 A.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Gratias ago Palladio was Re: Update on your consuls |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:27:08 -0500 |
|
Salvete Deci Iuni et alii
:From: "D. Iunius Palladius" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
:
I would like to express my gratitude for your thoughtful response. This is
something that I really value: none of my letters to elected officials of
my macronation ever get a response, even of a form-letter variety.
Public communication between magistrates and citizens goes a long way toward
building trust. Thank you.
:
:
:I'm not sure the term "homeland" is an entirely apt term, it has the
:connotations of the "homelands" that South Africa set aside for blacks
:during the apartheid era. Few if any of us probably would live there but
:it would be a a spiritual center for us all to look to.
:
:It would not be a homeland or a city but a small spiritual center and
:capitol.
I understand your point. I did not mean to make that analogy, but a
spiritual center to me is a homeland, just as Roma would have been to Romans
living in the provinces, or Israel is to many Jews today. Even if one never
physically visits the place, the knowledge of its existence must provide a
sense of certainty and perspective. I think that the word "homeland" has
been tainted by apartheid.
:
:
:
:2. The coin and stamp project. This will be our biggest single expenditure
:to date. Marcus Cassius has all the figures on what this will cost. It
:will not be cheap but the benefits will be enormous, in money brought in
:as well as physical tokens of sovereignty.
I can scarcely wait to acquire Nova Roma coins and stamps.
:
:
:In service to Rome,
:
:Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul
:
:
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma Goals |
| From: |
pallasathene@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:42:07 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salvete, Quirites!
I find all of this interest in recruiting, advertising, local gatherings, physical sites, etc. very exciting! I am pleased to see so many of you actively contributing ideas and suggestions for the growth of Nova Roma. It is nice to be moving on to bigger and better things. (The stamps and coins being an excellent start!)
Along with making a monthly contribution to the Nova Roma Treasury, I am setting up a fund for my own province where I shall set aside a few denarii every paycheck to fund future Provincial and local gatherings. And I am announcing that the Southeast USA Provincia will soon have it's own web site, as well!
Studiose,
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Propraetor Southeast USA Provincia
----------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Post-Pre-Propraetorships [wink] |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:51:16 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Graece, et salvete omnes...
>- When the Governor was previously a Praetor use Propraetor (is pro
>Praetore more correct?)
'Propraetor' is the noun, 'pro praetore' the adverb form of the same
thing. The old governors were called propraetors because they were
serving 'pro praetore'...'in the place of a praetor' or 'by order of a
praetor'. Kind of like the original (and literal) meaning of the
French term 'lieutenant'--means 'place-holder'! (I used to love saying
that to the shavetails and butterbars [newbie officers] I met up with.)
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)
Yours under the Eagles,
Lucius Marius Fimbria
P.S. Can I get you to quit tacking everything-everything ever posted to
the List onto the tail-ends of your messages? -including the HTML
versions of same? (Dunno how moch control you have over that, but can
you try?)
P.P.S. I must confess, I like you better nowadays than I did during
the campaign. Good luck on your presentation! >({|:-)
|
| Subject: |
NR Gathering Place / Capitol |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:32:32 -0500 (EST) |
|
As I drive around the North-East I see innumerable buildings /
properties abandoned and being ovegrown, any one of which would probably
make a good starting place. I don't think that a physical building (s)
are a problem. A littleelbow grease and clea-up effort would render the
site quite nice. I'm sure that many other world sites have similar
situations.
The purchase or donation of land, would be the ideal thing, or the lease
of land from some one having a few acres that they are not using. There
are again many such people who are looking for a use for thei land, and
would probably be willing to lease the land for the guarantee of an
annual festival, ceremny or something similar there. It is happening
now, as folks who have inherited farmlands and other property from their
deceased parants are looking for ways to use the land, until they can
afford to develop it. What is needed among other things is a research
team to look into land ownership in different areas in an attempt to
identify properties such as I have described, and then approach the
owners. For he forseeable future, this appears to a viable way to
identify propoerty that we miht be able to use. One thing is absolutely
sure, and that is that there is a property at the right price, which is
suitable for us out there somewhere. All we have to do is organize
ourselves and find it/
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: New provinces |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:07:02 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/28/99 2:03:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=180166080058082135090082190036" >hadji@--------</a> write--------r>
<< I am sorry for this discussion provoked by my person >>
Salve.
Never be sorry. Without Ideas for discussion, we can't brainstorm, and
without brain storming we cannot move forward.
Vale!
Q Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma Goals |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:35:51 -0600 (CST) |
|
Well, even beyond the ability to buy 108 acres could you just
imagine the maintenance costs and time required to maintain such a site?
Even if it only consisted at first of an old farmhouse and a barn on a
bankrupt estate grass still needs to be cut and snow shoveled, the
building(s) cleaned, and then to figure out who is going to be there all
the time. How about all the infinite debates on city planning - and I
beleive in this context our augurs will have to be onsight temporarily
too to make some judgements to aid the senate. Just saying that the
whole thing goes well beyond money. We're going to need a lot of
organization and some people with a lot of free time on their hands.
About advertising- yes I would agree that advertising in a pagan
or historical newletter or magazine would have the best response, though
perhaps in time we could experiment with adding flyer inserts into
certain newspapers or putting a small ad here and there to see what kind
of response we can get. What perhaps we need to do is have a small
advertiseing committee to work on wording,etc. and to actively seek
places to advertise throughout internet and physical sites, along with
finding proper graphics when appropriate. In this context the
propraetors can network if desired or just have anyone who's interested
help out as needed. This could be made rather simple- forming two or
three differently worded ads that would cater more to specific types of
publications ( maybe we only would need one good ad though), and then
categorizing different areas to advertise- historical, pagan,
internet,etc. etc. and then delegating who puts in the specific ad where
(making priorities based on funds). I think we could be much more
organized and effective with such a committee. I think Dex mentioned
something about being a professional advertiser some time ago and I'm
certain there's quite a few talented people here. Can we have some
supporting statements from our Consuls and/or Senate?????????
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Plebeian cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera |
| From: |
Diana/Orbianna proserpina@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:03:43 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes et Graece!
In order to clarify some information in regard to Ceres, I just wanted to
note a few things referenced in this previous post. The festivals that were
listed by our Graecus are celebrated by all those who wished to honor
Ceres, and not necessarily by plebians alone. As a goddess, Ceres may have
been a primary in the worship by the plebs, but she was a beloved goddess
of many Romans not in the plebian class, particularly Roman women. Noble
women even had a part to play in the "plebian" cult of Ceres, Liber, and
Libera. According to Cicero, the Sacerdos Cerealis (which is spelt wrong on
the NR website) was generally a woman of noble birth (Verr. 2.4.99). And
"like the one at Catena, the priesthood of Ceres at Rome also was almost
certainly exclusively held by women of the upper class" (Spaeth, "The Roman
Goddess Ceres," 105). As a goddess, Ceres was a role model for all women of
Rome. She embodied all the traits that a Roman woman of any class strove to
attain. And as goddess of grains, she was highly important, not just to the
plebs, but to *all* Rome. If the proper honor was not bestowed onto Ceres
by all Roman citizens, then there was the possibility of mass starvation.
As the website and Graecus have pointed out, the Temple to Ceres, Liber,
and Libera was constructed due to a grain shortage. What is a misconception
is that the Sibylline Books, which are a collection of Greek oracles,
recommended (not required) that the Demeter, Kore, and Dionysus be
propitiated (which means pacified). These deities were already worshipped
throughout Rome. Also, it should be noted that it was Aulus Postumius, a
patrician magistrate, who initially consulted the books and ordered the
construction of said temple. This is all in accordance to what is stated by
Dionysius Halicarnassus, a Greek historian. Due to existing circumstances,
the plebs began to adopt this new triadic cult as a primary religious
outlet (which was a new concept for Rome at the time, being a compilation
of two dyads, Liber/Libera and Ceres/Libera). Thus the Aediles took up
residence in the temple to oversee the grain, which was the result of an
attempt to pacify the discordance between the plebs and patricians, which
was an ever-raging civil battle. They sought balance in this manner.
As with all religions, the cult evolved, as did the triadic deities. Ceres
had always been a goddess worshipped by women, since Her dawn in ancient
Greece. She became the idealized Roman woman, encompassing her fertility
and liminal attributes. Combining Her aspects involving agriculture, grain,
fertility, liminality, and women (the backbone of Roman society), we can
easily see how Ceres became representative of civilization. She is a
goddess of civilization. Note that many of the wives of the great emperors
of our past have attempted to liken themselves to Ceres, and are often
depicted on Roman coins of old in a very Ceres-like manner. Many emperors
themselves would have their portraits on one side of a coin, while
depicting a portrait of Ceres on the other. Ceres was not simply a grain
goddess, but the epitome of the Roman civilization, thus she represented
civilization at it's finest, in peace. You'll find that Ceres is often
associated with Pax and sometimes, their names are used interchangeably.
Check the quote I've been using at the end of my email messages.
Well, I've written an eyeful. On a last note, I celebrated the Feriae
Sementivae last night, which is the night listed on the traditional Strega
calendar that I use. I can let you know more about the festivals if you all
wish. Ceres is my personal, matron goddess, and so I devote a great deal of
time and energy learning as much as I can about her. I wrote my senior
honor's thesis, a year long research project, on psycho-social constructs
and the worship of Demeter in ancient Greece. I continued to pursue her
study while I was attending graduate school for classical studies last
year. I'd be happy to work with you, Graecus, on anything you wish
regarding Ceres and her cult, and as you are the keeper of her temple, you
have my greatest respect.
Valete and Bright Blessings,
Orbianna
At 10:51 25/01/99 -0000, you wrote:
> Salvete omnes! This statement follows the correspondence I've been
>exchanging with our honoured Tribune Plebis Avidius Tullius Callidus. As
>you may know, as Aedile Plebis I have also religious duties, nmely those
>that concern the Plebeian Cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera. Please refer
>to the Nova Roma page on the Gods and Goddesses, which states amont other
>things: « Ceres is the goddess of agriculture. During a drought in
>496 BCE, the Sibylline Books ordered the institution of the worship of
>Demeter, Dionysus and Persephone, called by the Latin names of Ceres,
>Liber and Libera. Ceres was the goddess of the plebians: the plebian
>aediles cared for her temple and had their official residences in it, and
>were responsible for the games at the Cerealia, her original festival on
>August 12-19. There was a women's 9-day fast and festival when women
>offered the first corn harvest to Ceres, originally celebrated every four
>years, but later held every October 4. Liber Pater. God of the vine.
>Associated with the Greek God Bacchus. » I still don't know when
>were the Liberalia (festivals of Liber and Libera) festivals celebrated,
>but I will find out. In order to better perform my duties, It would be fine
>if I had some statuary. I'm thinking of buying a statuette of Ceres and
>Proserpina and another of Dionysus, thus completing the triad.
>Nevertheless, I don't know if it would not be better to have official
>statuettes blessed by the Auguri and Pontifex Maximus, which would from
>year to year pass from Aedile Plebis to Aedile Plebis. What do you think
>would be better? Valete! Antonius Gryllus Graecus (Aedile Plebis)
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
Gens Luciania
Citizen of Nova Roma
----------------------------
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=165212250009158116172098203108129208071" &--------rbianna@--------</a&--------br>
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212253112056209171056066140114002071048139" >proserpina@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------
"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon
"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704
|
| Subject: |
Re: Update on your consuls |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:13:09 -0800 |
|
jane wrote:
> From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> >My goal is the stated 108 acre spiritual capitol mentioned on the
> >website since the Founding of Nova Roma.
>
> Decius Iunius is right, I believe. I can't imagine that we'd be able to
> afford marble buildings for many years to come, but with a few years of
> effective fund-raising, we might be able to make a start on owning some
> land.
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
I seem to recall that the Society for Creative Anachronisms had a dream like
this in its beginning. Should we face our citizens with requests for money for
such a goal at this early in our republic's life when funds can be used for
those mundane day to day expenses like actually paying for the publication of
the Eagle, much less some sort of advertising program?
C. Aelius Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Plebeian cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera |
| From: |
Masterofhistory masterofhistory@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:27:06 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve Orbianna et salve omnes,
Thank you for the in-depth and informative posting on the cults of
Ceres, Liber and Libera. You are quite correct when you state that
this was a Goddess beloved by all of Rome, Patrician and Plebeian
alike. Because these cults have long ties to the Plebeian Order, A.
Graecus and myself, as Plebeian officials thought we'd correspond on
this matter. That Ceres, Liber and Libera have Plebeian connections
does not in any way exclude both Orders from honoring her. Both
Patricians and Plebeians honor Iuppiter despite the fact that the
Flamin Dialis must be a Patrician. I hope that the information
submitted to the list was not taken as one Order staking out its claim
to a divinity at the expense of the other. It was not intended to be.
Any information you have and want to share, I am confident, will be
well received. Personally, I would enjoy reading your thesis about
the cults of Ceres Liber and Libera.
==
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Tribune of the People
|
| Subject: |
Procedure to modify the provincia boundries? |
| From: |
"Vartarius Quentius" sikkens@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:28:36 -0800 |
|
What would be required to change the current provinica boundries?
Here's why I ask: Nevada is currently part of the SW US Provincia. Our population centers are closest to California (about 2 hours from Reno to Sacramento and about 3 hours from Las Vegas to LA.) where to get to the other side of things is about eight hours. Would it be possible to change the boarders so that Nevada is included in the California Provincia?
Just a though....
Centurio Vartarius Aelius Quentius
(HELP! My name's growing longer and I can't stop it!)
----
Visit Living History International at www.livinghistory.org, your history centre online! A non-profit 501(c)3 organization. ICQ #23058791
|
| Subject: |
Re: NR Gathering Place / Capitol |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:46:07 -0800 |
|
Has anybody else noticed that this guy is a wealth of good, sound ideas? (That
is called "irony" for those uninitiated.)
This is the part I mean|
|
\ |/
James Mathews wrote:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> As I drive around the North-East I see innumerable buildings /
> properties abandoned and being ovegrown, any one of which would probably
> make a good starting place. I don't think that a physical building (s)
> are a problem. A littleelbow grease and clea-up effort would render the
> site quite nice. I'm sure that many other world sites have similar
> situations.
Something like this would be a focal point, that would be accesible to all. Cab
from the airport. Of course it is still a far piece from Brazil, Pannonia,
Brittania etc.
Ericius
> One thing is absolutely
> sure, and that is that there is a property at the right price, which is
> suitable for us out there somewhere.
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: NR Gathering Place / Capitol |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:16:56 -0500 (EST) |
|
I thank for your flattering words, but I deserve little of them. The
observations of which you speak are simply that, observations. However,
one of the provinces will be first to have some sort of shrine, temple,
meeting place, whatever, and which ever one is first, I would assume
that they would invite those as who live closely to share.
It is something like the dinner held recently in England, which I would
have liked to attended, but I couldn't make it. I am not even sure how
many people live in my province or if there is anyone at all after the
last election. It would not seem that it would be difficult to arrange
a dinner party, or just a face-to-face party in provinces that have
enough to support such. Boy Scout units meet in church basements, I
guess we could start there too.
With an eye to the above paragraph, how many people live in the
North-Eastern Province that would be interested in such???
In the coming season, which is re-enatment season for me (May-November)
I will be doig quite a bit of traveling up and down the Eastern
Seaboard. Who is interested is a slightly used "Old Fossil" dropping in
for an hour's face to-face chat, with perhaps some idea of planning a
get-together at some later time. or so on Saturday Evening or Sunday
late P.M.
(New Jersey to New Hampshire (and South. Maine).
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Procedure to modify the provincia boundries? |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:13:11 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/28/99 6:28:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=061176211163056116090218001036129208" >sikkens@--------&--------a> writes:
<< Would it be possible to change the boarders so that Nevada is included in
the California Province? >>
To the August Fathers of the Senate From Q. Fabius Maximus.
Salvete!
Most other regional organizations include Nevada with California and Arizona
as the Big Three in the Pacific southwest. If you were looking for a
precedent for the change, August Fathers, there it is.
May Fortuna preserve our republic and those who govern her!
Velete!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Procedure to modify the provincia boundries? |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:35:42 -0800 |
|
Salvete Conscript Fathers!
Vartarius has talked with me about this border problem. I thought it proper to
wait until the matter was broached before I offered my opinion.
It makes complete sense. The orientation of the areas mentioned, Reno and Las
Vegas, though we are really only talking about Reno where Vartarius is based, is
towards California. This is a fact, regardless of political borders. Just as
we all work to further the healthy growth of Nova Roma regardless of what region
any of us find ourselves to be in.
I hold myself available for questions and discussion of this question.
Salvete, august Senators!
C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor ad Californiam Provinciam.
|
