Subject:	Re: NR Gathering Place / Capitol
From:	Diana/Orbianna proserpina@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:35:52 -0500

Salvete,
I would be happy to meet with you along your journey, should you be in the
Pa/NJ area. I'm sure Dex would be just as happy to receive you, though I
can't speak on his behalf. Perhaps we could all get together along with a
group from the Mid-Atlantic Province.
It's interesting that all this has come up when I've been recently
pondering how nice it would be if there was a branch of Nova Roma central
to my area where there could be gatherings for ritual and socialization
(together or separately). I just don't think there are enough people within
a reasonable distance to do such. Even Dex lives two hours away from me.
Everyone should just move here to Philadelphia. After all, this was the
birthplace of America. I don't see why it couldn't be the same for a
physical Nova Roma :-)

Valete,
Orbianna


At 22:16 28/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>I thank for your flattering words, but I deserve little of them. The
>observations of which you speak are simply that, observations. However,
>one of the provinces will be first to have some sort of shrine, temple,
>meeting place, whatever, and which ever one is first, I would assume
>that they would invite those as who live closely to share.
>
>It is something like the dinner held recently in England, which I would
>have liked to attended, but I couldn't make it. I am not even sure how
>many people live in my province or if there is anyone at all after the
>last election. It would not seem that it would be difficult to arrange
>a dinner party, or just a face-to-face party in provinces that have
>enough to support such. Boy Scout units meet in church basements, I
>guess we could start there too.
>
>With an eye to the above paragraph, how many people live in the
>North-Eastern Province that would be interested in such???
>
>In the coming season, which is re-enatment season for me (May-November)
>I will be doig quite a bit of traveling up and down the Eastern
>Seaboard. Who is interested is a slightly used "Old Fossil" dropping in
>for an hour's face to-face chat, with perhaps some idea of planning a
>get-together at some later time. or so on Saturday Evening or Sunday
>late P.M.
>(New Jersey to New Hampshire (and South. Maine).
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
Iustina Luciania Orbianna
Gens Luciania
Citizen of Nova Roma

----------------------------
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=165212250009158116172098203108129208071" &--------rbianna@--------</a&--------br>
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212253112056209171056066140114002071048139" >proserpina@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
----------------------------

"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon

"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704

Subject:	Re: NR Gathering Place / Capitol
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:02:04 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Razenna wrote:

> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
> Has anybody else noticed that this guy is a wealth of good, sound ideas? (That
> is called "irony" for those uninitiated.)
> This is the part I mean|

You are quite right, Audens has many good ideas, though his sense of
modesty will cause him to say otherwise.

> James Mathews wrote:
>
> > From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
> >
> > As I drive around the North-East I see innumerable buildings /
> > properties abandoned and being ovegrown, any one of which would probably
> > make a good starting place. I don't think that a physical building (s)
> > are a problem. A littleelbow grease and clea-up effort would render the
> > site quite nice. I'm sure that many other world sites have similar
> > situations.
>
> Something like this would be a focal point, that would be accesible to all. Cab
> from the airport. Of course it is still a far piece from Brazil, Pannonia,
> Brittania etc.

Something like Audens has described would be ideal. Certainly a forum of
marble may not come in our lifetimes but I think the land and a few
buildings is possible. Most of the land would not be used at first and
if possible the land could be rented out until it was built on.
It is quite common here (New England) for landowners not using land to
rent out their fields to farmers to hay or plant crops. It may even pay
for itself while waiting to be built on. Certainly the initial buildings
would be simple wooden structures and whatever buildings were already there
would of course be utilized. I think it will be for future generations of
Nova Romans to "find Rome a city of wood and leave it a city of marble."
(sorry, I don't remember the quote by Augustus exactly)

Hell, at first it may just be the land and the marker stone--the naval?
(Sorry, I can't remember what it is called, the stone in the Forum along
the Via Sacra that all distances in Rome and beyond were measured from)

Anyway, anything beyond a discussion of the establishment of
a fund at this point really is dreaming though Audens' suggestion
shows that there are real, practical possibilities for the future.


Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	"D. Iunius Palladius" amcgrath@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:29:07 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Antonio Grilo wrote:

> From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
> P.S. =)
>
> I've also found inscriptions which say simply:
> Legatus Provinciae Lusitaniae
>
> My sugestion is the following:
> - When the Governor was previously a Consul use Proconsul
> - When the Governor was previously a Praetor use Propraetor (is pro Praetore
> more correct?)
> - When the Governor is not a former Praetor or Consul use Legatus.

An excellent suggestion, Graechus, thank you. These are the terms that I
will soon suggest to the Senate that we use.


In service to Rome,

Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:12:44 EST

To the August Fathers of the Senate, from Q. Fabius Maximus
Salvete!

I fail to see what the problem is here. The Republic had 6 Praetors 197 BCE
The City Praetor, one for City foreigners, one to administer Sicily, one for
Sardinia, one for Spain, one for Illyria. Sulla raised the number to eight.

My point is this. What ever you decide is what will be carried out now, and
can be changed later. This is what I find so exciting about NR. You, August
Fathers have the choices and you alone make the decision. We are watching
history being formed, daily. Stuff that I read about in dusty history books,
boring words on drab pages, are actually being used again. I think this is a
great time. I'm recording it all.

As for my opinion (glad you asked) the original Governors of the Year of the
Formation of NR should keep their titles. After that, any Governor that adds
a province should be called a Praefectus. I think Legati should be reserved
for "special assignments et al" or as a reward from the Senate to deserving
persons for service to NR.
Vale!

Subject:	New provinces II
From:	hadji hadji@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:54:14 +0100

To Qvestor Marcus Minucius Audens

Dear sir,

I would like to inform you, that I have got a permission of my
Materfamilias Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia to candidate for a
praetor of Pannonias.
I would like to exact that I do not beg for any office, but offer you a
cooperation and a help. I am sure that such a cooperation would be
usefull for the future citizens from Pannonia and for NR too. It could
be done only on the base of partnership. We can't accept a possition of
passive objects and treatment as aborigines. Thatswhy Pannoias may have
the same status as other provinces.
Believe me, any other alternative is not acceptable not only for me
personally, but for anybody in the region.
It would take a lot of place to explain, that people here, who have seen
the fallen of a system, consider very critically and sensetive every
news comming from abroad.
Although their countries are poor and in desorder, they loves their
history and countries. Roman history is a part of it.
I personally admire Greek - Roman civilization.
I will finish with generalities now and will pass to your questions.
There is no sence to assure you that I will do any religion activity
here. My activities will direct to:

1. Take part here of activities, which have something with Roman history
and inform about existing of NR.

2. Try to create a web page of both Pannonias

3. Be available to every native citizen and not only by e-mails, but
personally will help with comunication to those, who have no PC or have
difficulties with English (my English is bad too, but this is reallity).

4. To organize regular live meetings for our native citizens.

5. To help, when it is necessary, to those our pannonians who needs it.

6. Every N.Romans could ask me for assistance during his/her visit in
Pannonias.

7. Assure for pannonians citizens their rights as NR citizens (for
example to receive their voter codes in time, and to be transparently
informed about results of elections).

Well, my imagine is that my praetorship could longs no more than 1
year. During these time I will try to find two native citizens (one from
Pannonia Inferior, the other one from Superior), who will be my legates
for the both provinces. They will take the duty of praetorship after me.
There will be a common praetor for the both provinces, which would be
nominated from the Senate every year from different province.
The same model could be applied later fo Moesia Inferior, Thrace and
Macedonia.

Vale

Alexander I.C.P.M.

P.S. If Senate throw off my offer, I will not refuse my citizenship, but
only because of few wonderful friends as my Materfamilias Augustina
Nocturnia, Antonius Gryllus, Gaius Marius Merullo and Lucius Cornelius
Sulla.

Subject:	Re: The Plebeian cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:59:47 -0000

Salve Orbianna!

Gratias ago tibi verba tuae!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Aedile Plebis)

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana/Orbianna <a href="/--------/novaroma?--------ectID=197212253112056209171056066140114100071048139" >--------er--------@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 11:58 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: The Plebeian cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera


>From: Diana/Orbianna <a href="/--------/novaroma?--------ectID=197212253112056209171056066140114100071048139" >--------er--------@--------</a>
>
>Salvete omnes et Graece!
> In order to clarify some information in regard to Ceres, I just wanted to
>note a few things referenced in this previous post. The festivals that were
>listed by our Graecus are celebrated by all those who wished to honor
>Ceres, and not necessarily by plebians alone. As a goddess, Ceres may have
>been a primary in the worship by the plebs, but she was a beloved goddess
>of many Romans not in the plebian class, particularly Roman women. Noble
>women even had a part to play in the "plebian" cult of Ceres, Liber, and
>Libera. According to Cicero, the Sacerdos Cerealis (which is spelt wrong on
>the NR website) was generally a woman of noble birth (Verr. 2.4.99). And
>"like the one at Catena, the priesthood of Ceres at Rome also was almost
>certainly exclusively held by women of the upper class" (Spaeth, "The Roman
>Goddess Ceres," 105). As a goddess, Ceres was a role model for all women of
>Rome. She embodied all the traits that a Roman woman of any class strove to
>attain. And as goddess of grains, she was highly important, not just to the
>plebs, but to *all* Rome. If the proper honor was not bestowed onto Ceres
>by all Roman citizens, then there was the possibility of mass starvation.
>As the website and Graecus have pointed out, the Temple to Ceres, Liber,
>and Libera was constructed due to a grain shortage. What is a misconception
>is that the Sibylline Books, which are a collection of Greek oracles,
>recommended (not required) that the Demeter, Kore, and Dionysus be
>propitiated (which means pacified). These deities were already worshipped
>throughout Rome. Also, it should be noted that it was Aulus Postumius, a
>patrician magistrate, who initially consulted the books and ordered the
>construction of said temple. This is all in accordance to what is stated by
>Dionysius Halicarnassus, a Greek historian. Due to existing circumstances,
>the plebs began to adopt this new triadic cult as a primary religious
>outlet (which was a new concept for Rome at the time, being a compilation
>of two dyads, Liber/Libera and Ceres/Libera). Thus the Aediles took up
>residence in the temple to oversee the grain, which was the result of an
>attempt to pacify the discordance between the plebs and patricians, which
>was an ever-raging civil battle. They sought balance in this manner.
> As with all religions, the cult evolved, as did the triadic deities. Ceres
>had always been a goddess worshipped by women, since Her dawn in ancient
>Greece. She became the idealized Roman woman, encompassing her fertility
>and liminal attributes. Combining Her aspects involving agriculture, grain,
>fertility, liminality, and women (the backbone of Roman society), we can
>easily see how Ceres became representative of civilization. She is a
>goddess of civilization. Note that many of the wives of the great emperors
>of our past have attempted to liken themselves to Ceres, and are often
>depicted on Roman coins of old in a very Ceres-like manner. Many emperors
>themselves would have their portraits on one side of a coin, while
>depicting a portrait of Ceres on the other. Ceres was not simply a grain
>goddess, but the epitome of the Roman civilization, thus she represented
>civilization at it's finest, in peace. You'll find that Ceres is often
>associated with Pax and sometimes, their names are used interchangeably.
>Check the quote I've been using at the end of my email messages.
> Well, I've written an eyeful. On a last note, I celebrated the Feriae
>Sementivae last night, which is the night listed on the traditional Strega
>calendar that I use. I can let you know more about the festivals if you all
>wish. Ceres is my personal, matron goddess, and so I devote a great deal of
>time and energy learning as much as I can about her. I wrote my senior
>honor's thesis, a year long research project, on psycho-social constructs
>and the worship of Demeter in ancient Greece. I continued to pursue her
>study while I was attending graduate school for classical studies last
>year. I'd be happy to work with you, Graecus, on anything you wish
>regarding Ceres and her cult, and as you are the keeper of her temple, you
>have my greatest respect.
>
>Valete and Bright Blessings,
>Orbianna
>
>
>
>At 10:51 25/01/99 -0000, you wrote:
>> Salvete omnes! This statement follows the correspondence I've been
>>exchanging with our honoured Tribune Plebis Avidius Tullius Callidus. As
>>you may know, as Aedile Plebis I have also religious duties, nmely those
>>that concern the Plebeian Cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera. Please refer
>>to the Nova Roma page on the Gods and Goddesses, which states amont other
>>things: &laquo; Ceres is the goddess of agriculture. During a drought
in
>>496 BCE, the Sibylline Books ordered the institution of the worship of
>>Demeter, Dionysus and Persephone, called by the Latin names of Ceres,
>>Liber and Libera. Ceres was the goddess of the plebians: the plebian
>>aediles cared for her temple and had their official residences in it, and
>>were responsible for the games at the Cerealia, her original festival on
>>August 12-19. There was a women's 9-day fast and festival when women
>>offered the first corn harvest to Ceres, originally celebrated every four
>>years, but later held every October 4. Liber Pater. God of the vine.
>>Associated with the Greek God Bacchus. &raquo; I still don't know when
>>were the Liberalia (festivals of Liber and Libera) festivals celebrated,
>>but I will find out. In order to better perform my duties, It would be
fine
>>if I had some statuary. I'm thinking of buying a statuette of Ceres and
>>Proserpina and another of Dionysus, thus completing the triad.
>>Nevertheless, I don't know if it would not be better to have official
>>statuettes blessed by the Auguri and Pontifex Maximus, which would from
>>year to year pass from Aedile Plebis to Aedile Plebis. What do you think
>>would be better? Valete! Antonius Gryllus Graecus (Aedile Plebis)
>Iustina Luciania Orbianna
>Gens Luciania
>Citizen of Nova Roma
>
>----------------------------
&--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=165212250009158116172098203108129208071" &--------rbianna@--------</a&--------/font>
>
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212253112056209171056066140114002071048139" >proserpina@--------</a>
><a href="http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/7401</a>
>----------------------------
>
>"Scientia est potentia." -Francis Bacon
>
>"Pax Cererem nutrit, Pacis alumna Ceres" -Ovid "Fasti" 1.701-704
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>

Subject:	Alexander I.C.P.M.
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:45:35 -0500 (EST)

To those NR citizens who messaged concerning the subject individual, I
have receieved and reviewed his responses, and have passed my
recommendations to Consul Cinncinnatus as requested. I thank you for
your recommendations and comments in this matter, as they were all most
helpful in completing the requested review.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	The Eagle in Europe
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:59:30 -0800 (PST)

Salvete!
Almost two months ago now, I announced my intention to give up my
position as European distributor of the Eagle, and asked whether
anyone in Europe was willing to take up the post. However, I have had
no response since then, and since I do not want to let European
subscribers down, I have continued to act as distributor. I would now
like to state that, if there really is no-one else out there to do it,
I am happy to continue in this post for the forseeable future. Flavia
Claudia and I have recently worked out a new method of handling the
distribution, which has made things much easier for both of us, and so
the demands on my time which the Eagle makes have reduced, and I am
able to continue with it.
I'd also like to take this opportunity, while I'm on the subject,
to remind European subscribers that they are able to subcribe to the
Eagle, and to encourage them to do so. This really is a highly
professional magazine, with a wide range of articles of interest to
everybody, not to mention being a great place for Nova Romans to share
ideas, recipes and information with each other. To subscribe, go to
<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/euro.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/euro.html</a>, where you will find a form showing
the details required. Either print this out, or copy down the
information, and send it, together with a cheque for five UK pounds
sterling for a year's subcription to:
12, Castle Mill House,
Mount St.,
Jericho,
Oxford,
OX2 6DR.

Happy reading!
Aprica.






==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************

Subject:	Re: The Eagle in Europe
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:29:04 -0000

Salve cara amica!
S V B E E V

> Almost two months ago now, I announced my intention to give up my
>position as European distributor of the Eagle, and asked whether
>anyone in Europe was willing to take up the post. However, I have had
>no response since then, and since I do not want to let European
>subscribers down, I have continued to act as distributor. I would now
>like to state that, if there really is no-one else out there to do it,
>I am happy to continue in this post for the forseeable future.
I'd like to offer myself to be the European distributor, but only in the
condition that it is your will to give up your position.

Vale!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:45:03 -0000

Salvete!

Would someone like to post something to clarify once and for all the doubts
concerning governorship office names in ancient Rome?

I have doubts on the following:

- What were the following:
- Praefectus
- Legatus
- Legatus pro Praetore
- Propraetor
- Proconsul
- Procurator

- Was there any difference between a Legatus pro Praetore and a Propraetor
or was it the same office?

- During the Empire what was the difference (in administration) between a
Senatorial and an Imperial Provincia (by the way, Lusitania was an Imperial
Provincia)?

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:31:25 -0800

You forget about the Praetorian provinces, the governors of which were Praetors.
Which is where our title of Praetor for provincial governors came from. You can
get the detailed rationale from Germanicus.

Legatus was often appointed by a governor for such subordinate tasks as
commanding a legion within that governor's province.

Ericius

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:49:42 -0800

This is much to the point I was addressing.

Ericius

Quoted for reference.
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
> To the August Fathers of the Senate, from Q. Fabius Maximus
> Salvete!
>
> I fail to see what the problem is here. The Republic had 6 Praetors 197 BCE
> The City Praetor, one for City foreigners, one to administer Sicily, one for
> Sardinia, one for Spain, one for Illyria. Sulla raised the number to eight.
>
> My point is this. What ever you decide is what will be carried out now, and
> can be changed later. This is what I find so exciting about NR. You, August
> Fathers have the choices and you alone make the decision. We are watching
> history being formed, daily. Stuff that I read about in dusty history books,
> boring words on drab pages, are actually being used again. I think this is a
> great time. I'm recording it all.
>
> As for my opinion (glad you asked) the original Governors of the Year of the
> Formation of NR should keep their titles. After that, any Governor that adds
> a province should be called a Praefectus. I think Legati should be reserved
> for "special assignments et al" or as a reward from the Senate to deserving
> persons for service to NR.
> Vale!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:41:36 -0000

Salve!

>You forget about the Praetorian provinces, the governors of which were
Praetors.
>Which is where our title of Praetor for provincial governors came from.
You can
>get the detailed rationale from Germanicus.
Was this only during the Republic? Lusitania was official constituted as a
Provincia during the reign of Augustus.

>Legatus was often appointed by a governor for such subordinate tasks as
>commanding a legion within that governor's province.
Then I must conclude that the epigraphies I have transcribed of Legatus pro
Pretore Lusitaniae Provinciae were not governorns but were following orders
of the Provincia's Praetor... Is this right? Which means that Lusitania was
in fact governed by a Praetor.
Then the Procurators Imperialis, must have been the representatives of the
Emperor himself and we have no such thing in Nova Roma.

Marcus Fabius wrote:
>As for my opinion (glad you asked) the original Governors of the Year of
the
>Formation of NR should keep their titles. After that, any Governor that
adds
>a province should be called a Praefectus.
What was a Praefectus?

Valete!

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
(Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae)

Subject:	Re: The Plebeian cults of Ceres, Liber and Libera
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:45:45 EST

Orbianna,

You do your Paterfamilias proud!

Please tell us more about the Feriae Sementivae.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: NR Gathering Place / Capitol
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:48:07 EST

Of course I would be there! Only say the word...and give me enough time to
plan my schedule!

I apologize for being absent from the list as of late..life has thrown me a
lot to juggle right now.

But I'm still here!

--Dexippus

Subject:	SE USA Provincial Message Board
From:	pallasathene@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:35:32 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, Romani!

I am pleased to announce that the SE USA Provincia now has a message board. Please feel free to post messages concerning local gatherings, meetings, questions, suggestions, etc! The URL is:

<a href="http://venus.beseen.com/boardroom/e/27341/" target="_top" >http://venus.beseen.com/boardroom/e/27341/</a>

Also, I am in the midst of creating a web site for the province. After I receive a URL, I shall post it!

Studiose,

Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Propraetor SE USA Provincia

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Subject:	Re: land vs. newsletters
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:17:37 EST

I vote that we shelve this discussion until after May 5, 2000

At that time, the Pole Shift would have occured and will dramatically change
the face of the global map. Then, in light of the devestation, we can have
our pick of territories.

--Dexippus
<<Augur of Doom!>>

Subject:	Praefectus / Legati
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:32:46 -0500 (EST)

Q. Fabious Maximus has a good idea, ad I support it strongly. In
retrospect A. Graecus also has some good ideas in the same area, which I
believe should be reviewed, with some adjustment in mind. I thank both
of the above named citizens as well as the many others who have
generated ideas to the benefit of NR. This is the stuff of which a
growing empire is made, and NR is beginning , indeed has, shown the
strength of it's predecessor even in this new world of new ideas,
creations and inventions, the magic of Rome still sparks the imagination
of an entire slice of the world's people.

Who can ignore the wonders of Rome from the classical buildings carved
in stone at Petra, to the riuned forums standing alone in the desert
wasteland of North Africa, to the still operational bridges and
aqueducts of western Europe?

As Q. Fabius has said so very well history is being made here, and I
thank those who watch over me (a full time job, there for several years)
for the opportunity to be a very small part of it, and to watch it's
development.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: land vs. newsletters
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:54:21 -0600 (CST)

With the brief mention of different funds one question comes to
mind. Is a citizen within bounds to designate a specific contribution to
a specific fund or should the senate delegate which portion of incoming
monies go to which fund no matter what.
My personal opinion is that the senate should come up with some sort of
a budget idea- such and such a percent of incoming funds being
designated for each particular project or area including a miscellaneous
fund that could be used as expenses might pop up unexpectantly. What
about all potential funds raised from and for the Nova Roma Provinces?
How is this to be handled in the future when applicable? Would any
serious funds go to the central Nova Roma accounts where disbursement
for a major project would be given approval by the Senate or is it
necessary to form something more elaborate within provinces- provincial
quaestors perhaps at a later date?????
My request--- let's come up with a system of handling this now and set
up/ratify this within our laws as soon as possible to avoid any future
problems or areas of conflict. Can this be brought up perhaps at the
very next Senatus Consultus? I also don't know of any nation that
doesn't have a budget plan.



Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Nova Roma Budget;
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:37 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Citizen Gaius Drusus Domitianus;

I think that an excellent idea!! You are also quite right in
recommending a budget, however, a budget is usually predicated upon a
source of income, and although Nova Roma has some income most of the
existing time and effort is being expended in increasing it!!

May I insert myself into your message and respectfully suggest that
perhaps we should draw up a budget sample rather than suggest that
someone (Sr. Magistrate) make up a budget. My reasoning is this:

I have been working closely with our senior magistrates, and for the
most part they have full plates at the moment. In my experience a
suggested budget outline from a citizen would be welcomed as a starting
point for the consideration of such and would allow the senor
magistrates and the Senate to ask their assistants to review and refine
those submissions, with a miimum of detailed effort on their part.

I have no authority to make this suggestion, however, it has worked well
in my experience, in the past, and in similar situations. I would be
most honored and priveledged to work with you toward such a goal. Let
me say that I appreciate your kind consideration of this offer in
advance and for the good of Nova Roma.

Vale. Gaius Drusus Domitianus;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Nova Roma Budget;
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:42:03 -0600 (CST)

I agree with Marcus Minucius Audens in the idea of coming up with
a budget sample. It is only a suggestion and at worst could be rejected
or ignored. Everything would have to be considered on a percent basis of
incoming funds. Obviously some things would have a fixed cost and then
afterwards there would be a potential surplus of money in that
particular fund. Such fixed cost items can be part of a Special Projects
or if small enough Miscellaneous fund.

Really, to do a sample budget we need to know what the actual
monthly expenses are for the websight, added costs being incurred from
the Eagle, and what the Coin and Stamp Project is expected to cost along
with any other plans for the coming year which could incur a definite
expense. Personally I believe there is no reason that the Eagle should
cause us to run into a deficit or make a citizen make up for its
monetary losses. Lets raise the rate after a certain date and offer a
little slack- let's say even 10 to 20 cents profit per copy allowing a
little room for expansion. Obviously some people have 2 year
subscriptions and this added expense will be around for a little while
yet. Let's end that as soon as possible.

The coin and stamp project will have initial start-up costs which
will create a drain at first and then in time benefit us and hopefully
add to our budgetand be self-propelling. What are the initial and later
costs (estimated) and how far along is this in the works??? What about
t-shirt sales??? Have we given up on newer creations of t-shirt designs?
Was our expenses totally covered by the previous t-shirt sales. Were all
the first-run t-shirts sold and what is the profit per t-shirt for each
one sold??? If there is any left from the first run how many are left?
What sizes are left? How about even making a cool looking black baseball
cap with a big N.R. and two gold eagles at each side. --- I might be
able to inquire on that one if there's any interest as I think I know of
a place around here that could do it and I could check. Maybe just a
Nova Roma in gold lettering. Let's find out how t-shirt sales have gone
first.

I guess no one individual could answer all these questions right
offhand on costs and projected expenses but if the individuals who are
directly involved with these projects could come forward and tell us
then we would be able to come up with a realistic sample budget that
would help organize and plan Nova Roma in a better and more efficient
way. Looking at real expenses we could give a realistic assessment of
what our priorities need to be, what can be spent on advertisement, what
can actually go at this time to a future land project, etc. etc.etc.

If we keep in mind doing what's going to return the most to us
first long or short term then we'll have the financial stability needed
for the future of Nova Roma. It's my hope that we get all the needed
facts and figures out and that we sit down and have a serious discussion
and then presentation for the Senate to consider.


Gaius Drusus Domitianus
( who prefers being at a good party rather than talking about money
but...)

Subject:	Re: Update on your consuls
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:13:46 -0500

Salvete Fabi et alii



:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
:
:To the August Fathers of the Senate, from Q. Fabius Maximus
:Salvete!

Just in case you don't already have it, the Senate's address is, I believe,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a>. If you mea-------- address the Se--------, you may wish to
send messages to that address as well as the general list.

I concur with your opinion about "Praefectus" for governor. To name each
governor "Legatus" would, in my view, give Nova Roma an overly militaristic
feel.
:
::As for my opinion (glad you asked) the original Governors of the Year of
the
:Formation of NR should keep their titles. After that, any Governor that
adds
:a province should be called a Praefectus. I think Legati should be
reserved
:for "special assignments et al" or as a reward from the Senate to deserving
:persons for service to NR.


Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Praefecti/Hispania
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:43:08 EST

In a message dated 1/29/99 6:34:51 AM Pa----------------andard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

>> What was a Praefectus?<<



To Antonius Gryllus Graecus Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae, from Q. (not
Marcus) Fabius Maximus.
Praefecti. Originally these were magistrates of the Republic
appointed at Rome with authority given by the praetor urbanus to
assist in official arrangements resulting from the grant of
"civitas sine suffragio" to a municipia.
The praefecti assisted the local authorities of the municipia; the
only senior judicial Roman authority. This authority could be
extended to provinces if necessary.

Later before the Social War, each Allied Legio (ala sociorum) had
six praefecti, three of whom were Roman officers. In Caesar's time
the praefecti were the commanders of cavalry contingents.

Under the Principate, praefecti were regular officers of equestrian
order. They commanded the Praetorian Guard, vigiles, and imperial
fleet; the urban cohortes would be organized by the praefectus
urbi.

During Augustus-Caligua's reigns the Auxilia's ala and cohors was
commanded by a praefectus, who was a centurio promoted from the
ranks. Claudius kept the name, but changed this post to young men
just starting their equestrian careers.

The legiones in Egypt were commanded by praefecti appointed by the
Emperor to assure loyalty instead of the normal legati, and Severus
emulated this when he raised Legiones Parthicae I-Ill hand picking
the commanders.
Gallienus carried it further, replacing senatorial legati with his
praefecti for all the legiones.
Each legionary camp had its commandant, called praefectus
castroruin and later praefectus (castrorum) legionis, who was a
promoted centurio.
- Steve Phenow

>> Then I must conclude that the epigraphies I have transcribed of Legatus pro
Pretore Lusitaniae Provinciae were not governorns but were following orders
of the Provincia's Praetor... Is this right? Which means that Lusitania was
in fact governed by a Praetor.
Then the Procurators Imperialis, must have been the representatives of the
Emperor himself<<

Close, my research indicates that it was adminstrated by a procurator who
answered to a proconsul in Tarraconensis, Nova Cathaginia. He represented the
Imperial interest. During Republican times, Hispania Citerior, or Hispania
Ulterior was always embroiled by revolt, so either a praetor, consul, or pro-
consul oversaw it. Don't forget one of my kin, Q Fabius, defeated Viriatus,
the Lusitan 144 BCE. Yet the rebellions dragged on till 19 BCE. At that time
Augustus took the last Hispanic city and pacified Hispania. He divided the
country into three provinces: Tarraconensis, Lusitania and Baetica. I presume
your Province includes all of Spain. Therefore your title of Praetor is
correct.
Vale

Subject:	Sodalitas Milatiaruim
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:14:26 -0500 (EST)

Salve Nova Roma Citizens;

The long wait is over. The Sodalitas Militrarium has been approved by
the Nova Roma Senate and is now a part of Nova Roma.

Since the Nova Roma Constitution forbids acquisition of lands and
peoples by warfare and conquest, this Sodalitas will concentrate on the
aspects of the study of making war, and devote itself to the cataloging
and modeling of the great Military Forces that were Rome as well as the
history of those forces.

The Sodalitas Militarium will accomplish this by forming the members, as
they shall choose, into particular interest groups, with certain goals,
again as the members shall choose, to reseach, study, and build models
of all aspects of Military Study. Establishmet of subject
bibliographies will also be a goal for each area of endeavor. The
following areas are available for immediate involvement and study:

---Naval Warfare, Shipbuilding, and Tactics
(models / diioramas);

---Legion's Cataloguing, Tactics, Organization,
etc.;

---Consul's Guard, Suitability for Nova Roma,
Uniforms, Duties, Weapon's, Drill,
Make-up, Organixzation;

---Artillery, Catapults, all forms used by the
Legions (models / dioramas);

---Engineering / Cartography, maps, drawings
models, dioramas;

---Legion Camps and Forts, models, dioramas,
diagrams, drawings, etc.;

---The purpose of the study groups will be the study / presentation /
modeling of their particular efforts with submittals to the NR
Newsletter (Eagle), and any other newsletters that are open to us, as
well as periodic opportunities to display our research and modeling in
various military shows and displays around the country. Other ideas to
be discussed and worked on:

--Militarium Newsletter;
--Militarium Message List;
--Militarium Presentations outside of NR;
--Additional ideas of members of the Sodalitas Militarium will be
considered for addition to the above.

This is your Military Organization Citizens!! One of the strong
foundations of the Republic and later the Empire was the ability of the
military to expand the frontiers of Rome. Be a part of the First Senate
Approved Sodalitas in Nova Roma! Be aware of the vast and powerful
Military organization that shook the world to such an extent that it is
still remembered in detail and with awe, twenty+ centuries later!!!

Vale, Citizens of Nova Roma;
Most Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Military Tribune-Nova Roma / XXIVth Legio

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Nova Roma Budget;
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:36:29 EST

Salvete,
I have a suggestion for a fund raising project. After the stamp and coin
projects are put in place, how about - flags ? Nova Roma has a good flag
design and a number of citizens might be interested in acquiring one. People
have different tastes. The suggestion for a classy Nova Roma baseball cap is
a good one, but I myself would never buy or wear such a thing. I would,
however, buy a flag if one were available.
On funds in general - we have about 200 members, and about 300 dollars in the
Treasury. That seems rather low for a group that wants to change the course
of world civilization by reviving ancient Rome. Are Nova Romans so poor that
we can only afford to create a fund that averages about a dollar and a half
per member ?
If the citizens even gave ten dollars each, that would be enough to get the
stamp and coin projects off the ground, and maybe a couple of other things as
well. And ten dollars is a very trifling amount. It always amazes me that so
many people in this world expect to get something for nothing. I hope this
little tirade doesn't offend anyone, but I think it needed to be said.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus

Subject:	Re: Nova Roma Budget;
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:28:27 -0800

Salve,

I am sorry but I dont know your Roman name, but I think you should read the front
page of the web page, its states that NR is reconstruction Ancient Rome, that
means the religion as well as everything else. For many of our citizens the
religion is a very large part of their life. While NR has adapted many
concessions to our Modern Society, Religion is one part that has not, nor will be
compromised. If it keeps people from becoming citizens that is their choice and
their perogrative. However, many of our citizens, including myself are not
Pagans, but have no problems accepting and respecting the Official Religion.
And, many of us, who are not Pagans do contribute to the growth of Nova Roma.
For example Lucius Marius Fimbria was appointed Military Tribune and I am Praetor
Urbanis. So, just becuase you might not be a Pagan or worship the Gods and
Goddess of Rome does not inhibit you from contributing to the success and growth
of Nova Roma.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanis

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
> Just trying to give some constructive criticism here...
> First of all I think the construction of temples or the worshipping of pagan
> gods is probably turning quite a few people away from joining. Perhaps the
> revival of Rome should not include its religious practices, or at least they
> shouldn't be so much a part of it.
>