| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II and Studio at the Sign of the Harp endorsement |
| From: |
Pythia kingan@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:34:50 +0000 |
|
Gaius Marius Merullus wrote:
>
> By the way, last year I bought several items from Pythia's Studio at the
> Sign of the Harp, the only member of our Ordo Equester. I was really
> impressed with Pythia's service, we're talking top-notch here, and both the
> women who received gifts were extremely pleased with them (Roman flowers
> neclace, hoop necklace, and fibulae). I posted an endorsement to the
> message board, but unfortunately the board went comatose a day or two later.
Thank-you so much for this ringing endorsement! I am really touched. The
Roman Jewelry is at this location:
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp/jewelry.html</a>. Anyone
who purchases from that site and identifies themselves as Nova Roman,
helps to contribute to the treasury
because I donate 10% of each sale. The site listed below is for gold
and diamonds etc, and is not part of this arrangement.
I do wish that others would join the Ordo Equester. I think this would
be a great way to raise funds for us.
Best, Pythia
______________________________________________________________________
The STUDIO at the SIGN OF THE HARP
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
The largest selection of fine jewelry and diamonds available in
Cyberspace.
Satisfaction Guarenteed.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Oplontian@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:27:06 EST |
|
Salvete,
I do not like the idea of a mandatory dues structure for Nova Roma.
Citizenship in a micronation is not quite the same thing as joining a club or
similar type of organization. You should not have to buy citizenship.
Mandatory dues sound to me like someone saying "Hey mister - do you want to
join our group and vote in our elections ? Just give us some money." Nova
Roma should be able to rely on its members to voluntarily give what they can
to support the organization. If the members of Nova Roma are going to make
contributions only when they are threatened with loss of membership, well,
that doesn't say much for their honor or their integrity. If you join an
organization and are not willing to use your own initiative to support that
organization, then maybe you shouldn't have joined in the first place.
At the same time, the vague suggestion to members that contributions are
welcome is not at all satisfactory. I think that there should be a defined
dues structure, and I also think it should be voluntary. The fund raising
groups attached to many institutions often have various levels of membership.
You might be able to join your local museum or art institute as an associate,
or a sponsor, or a benefactor, or a patron, depending on how much you
contributed to the organization. Perhaps that general idea could be adapted
to a dues structure for Nova Roma. How about something like this: Level 1,
Humiliores, free. Level 2, Honestiores, $20.
Level 3, Perfectissimus, $50. Level 4, Nobilissimus, $100.
Level 5, Clarissimus, $500. Level 6, Spectabiles, $1000.
Level 7, Illustrius, $10,000. These grandiose titles are from the later
Empire and do not have any real use in the new republic. For our purposes
these titles would only indicate a level of contribution, with no other
meaning, and would be good for a year.
Someone who was a "Nobilissimus" one year might be a "Humiliores" the next
year if their economic condition declined. I think that an annual membership
fee of $20. would be a very small amount to pay, but we should also have a
free membership category for those who can not afford to pay anything, and for
members who want to explore the organization before making a major commitment.
The decision to make a major commitment should be up to the member, without a
time limit. And if some of our stodgier Republicans object to using Imperial
class titles, we could name the membership contribution levels something else
- like copper, brass , bronze, silver, gold, etc.
I like the idea of making contributions at the Gens level. That could be very
useful.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Temple of Mars |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:06:18 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve Marcus.
The URL is correct. I tested it myself by copying it from the message
before I sent it and pasting it into the "Location" window of my web browser:
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfr" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfr</a>
m.htm
Again, if your e-mail system wraps part of the URL to a second line because
of its length, you will have to fix this manually at your end.
Vale.
M. Mala Gangalius
At 08:19 PM 2/14/99 -0500, James Mathews wrote:
>I think the last m in the URL should be brought into the letter set. I
>still got a reject.
>
>Marcus Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>Received: from mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by
> postoffice-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:03:47
> -0800 (PST)
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> 1999 17:04:42 -0800 (PST)
>Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:04:42 -0800 (PST)
>Message-Id: <a h--------"/post/nova--------?p--------ctID=234026248212050057024201152013250131071092014018171185179024208096210076083061" >199902150104.RAA25687@--------</a>
>X-Sender: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>Cc: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; contact <a href="mailto:novaroma-owner@--------" >novaroma-owner@--------</a>
>Delivered-To: mailing list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=091233018237127190072098060119006088152208031218251099120143116071142076083" >novaroma-unsubscribe@--------</a>
>Reply-to: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
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>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: The Temple of Mars
>
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Sorry! It's such a long URL that I frequently screw it up! Try this:
>
><a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsf" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsf</a>
rm.ht
>m
>
>Remember to grab the whole URL, including anything that wrapped at the tail
end.
>
>M. Mala Gangalius
>-------------
>Tom and Gail Gangale
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Mars Society California
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
>
>The Martian Time Web Site
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
>
>The Martian Ministry of Culture
><a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
>
>Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
><a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
>
>The National Primary System
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
>
>World GenWeb Calabria
><a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:34:20 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete omnes.
First of all, in keeping with the metaphor of a government, let us call the
assessment of financial support to Nova Roma a tax. I have heard the United
States of America referred to as the world's least exclusive club, and I am
proud to be a member of that club, but nowhere on the Form 1040 do I find
the word "dues".
I concur with Dexippus. I think that taxation by gens has a great many
pitfalls that a straightforward capitation tax would avoid. Shall larger
gentes be assessed more than smaller ones? Shall each paterfamilias be
forced into tax farming? Shall the paterfamilias be liable for any
shortfall should certain members of his gens fail to pay him their portion
of the tax?
Q. Fabius's idea of an annus gratis is very good. One free year is more
than sufficient time in which to grow to love Nova Roma and to commit to
supporting her. What if some choose to leave at the end of that year? What
quality of citizenry shall we have lost?
I quote from Marcus Brutus: "Who is here so rude that would not be a Roman?
If any, speak; for him have I offended. Who is here so vile that will not
love his country? If any, speak; for him have I offended."
And in this vein I ask, who is here so impoverished as cannot spare a
sestertius for Mater Roma? If any, I say let the censors enroll him in the
Capite Censi, the "Head Count". Then let it be a matter for the Senate to
decide whether the Capite Censi shall be enfranchised in future elections.
May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: FW: Zeus and other parents] |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:42:47 -0800 (PST) |
|
CACHINNO! (I laugh out loud!)
Fortunately, Jupiter's family was much better behaved.
M. Mala Gangalius
At 11:14 AM 2/14/99 +0000, Pythia wrote:
>I found this on HellenicPagan and thought you folks might enjoy it!
>--
>___________________________________________________________________________
_____________________
>
>The STUDIO at the SIGN OF THE HARP
><a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
>The largest selection of fine jewelry and diamonds available in
>Cyberspace.
>Satisfaction Guarenteed.Received: from onelist.com (pop.onelist.com
[209.207.164.209])
> by q3.quik.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA134682
> for <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:35:50 -0800
>Received: (qmail 21487 invoked by alias); 13 Feb 1999 08:36:06 -0000
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<a href="mailto:hellenicpagan@--------" >hellenicpagan@--------</a>; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:36:48 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Ma--------K--------" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=180056235163056153015038190036129" >h--------l@--------</a>
>To: "Hellenicpagan@Onelist. Com" <a href="mailto:hellenicpagan@--------" >hellenicpagan@--------</a>
>Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:44:05 -0800
>Message-ID: <000501be572d$0348cc80$3b511c26@k-6
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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>Mailing-List: list <a href="mailto:hellenicpagan@--------" >hellenicpagan@--------</a>; contact
<a href="mailto:hellenicpagan-owner@--------" >hellenicpagan-owner@--------</a>
>Delivered-To: mailing list <a href="mailto:hellenicpagan@--------" >hellenicpagan@--------</a>
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180056235078056116036102055140192253000090163234077193120193166002198029017221129098009096" >hellenicpagan-unsubscribe@--------</a>
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>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Subject: [hellenicpagan] FW: Zeus and other parents
>
>From: "Ma--------K--------" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=180056235163056153015038190036129" >h--------l@--------</a>
>
>Oh dear, I think this is the first time I've actually forwarded anything to
>the list in a while, but I just couldn't resist. Take it in the spirit it's
>presented in, no pun intended. ;)
>Maeve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Meli--------Taylor a--------ida--------lly [mailto:<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=200056235078196233015158190036129" >kellys@--------</a>]
>Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 1:39 PM
>To: <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=020071080009099194138149000077081208084248234241034099173211025216177136083061152" >Undi----------------Recipient--------..</a>
>Subject: Zeus and other parents
>
>
>This was sent to me from another list that I am on...
>Blessings,
>Melinda
>
>If the Gods had to attend Parent-Teacher conferences.........
>
>Mrs.Matusi's 5th grade class......
>"Come in, Mr. Zeus...Come in. Please take a seat, there are a lot of
>things we need to discuss today."
>
>"The seats are rather small, Mrs. Matusi."
>
>"Yes, I know - student desks, they're all we have funding for. I'm
>sorry for the inconvenience...watch your hem and try not to bang your
>knees."
>
>"Well, Mr.Zeus we're here to discuss your children's school
>performance....let me see....AH YES! Apollo."
>
>"He's a good kid...We don't have any problems with him at home."
>
>"Oh I agree Mr.Zeus. He's a very bright child...very. But he is not
>really applying himself....He'd rather get flirty with the little
>girls; one of the river gods felt it necessary to turn his little girl
>into a
>tree because he wouldn't quit bothering her....I'm still not sure about
>his logic in the matter, but he felt it solved the situation. If we can
>just turn his attention to his schoolwork, I'm sure he'd really start
>to SHINE."
>
>Well, I'll talk to him about that....I'm afraid he's a bit of a chip
>off the old block, that's all."
>
>"Yes...well, I can see that....one very good thing is that he is doing
>very well in is music class. He may be a prodigy. He should be
>encouraged."
>
>"He is, Mrs.Matusi, in fact we were thinking of putting him in charge
>of the department himself."
>
>"uhhhhh That's nice."
>
>"Is that all Mrs. Matusi?"
>
>Well, no, Mr.Zeus....um...we need to talk about Ares....He has become a
>bully of late. Mostly instigating fights and then watching the results
>and laughing. His temper is really out of control, sometimes, and he
>becomes belligerent when asked to correct mistakes. Now I do understand
>he is the God of War, but if you do not get him to control himself, he
>is running the risk of expulsion."
>
>"I promise I'll lay down the law when we get home about that
>behavior....I'm sorry. Anything else?"
>
>"Yes. Athena. She argues every answer wih the teaching staff. She
>insists she is wiser then everyone else and frankly it is stressing out
>Mrs. Patterson in Social Studies."
>
>"I understand Mrs. Matusi....between me and you that girl is just one
>headache after another."
>
>"And Hercules! Mr.Zeus, while I appreciate his help in moving the
>desks around for group learning, I'm afraid he did upset the other
>students
>last week when he strangled Mr.Wiggly, the class's pet snake, and I
>would appeciate it if you would replace or pay to replace him."
>
>"No problem...does the school accept VISA?"
>
>"Thank you that would be fine....but later. This is quite serious ....I
>believe Dionysus came to school drunk yesterday. Please, Please, Please
>lock up your alcohol. I am thinking of having him assist the D.A.R.E.
>instructor when he comes to school next week to teach the student body
>if that's all right with you?"
>
>"Yes....please do....um I'm worried about him too....I think it might
>be that fetal alcohol syndrome or something. His mother hit the sauce
>too
>
>much back then."
>
>"OH Really? I'm sorry to hear that....Speaking of his mother....I hope
>this isn't too personal?...."
>
>"Yes?"
>
>"Well, it's just that I noticed that.....welllllll....that ALL the
>children in my class are yours.
>Hermes...Ate...Artemis...Dione....Eos....Eros...Eris.
>..Hebe...Helen...Hephaestus...The Hours, who by the way were caught
>speeding up the school clocks yesterday ..Iasion...Minos...Sarpedon
>....the Muses...Perseus....etc etc. Mr. Zeus, most of your children
>seem to have different mothers who are not living with, or married to
>you
>
>either..."
>
>"Hades No! Hera would kill them....that Goddess is so jealous
>...don't know why, really it's not like I ever tried to make any of
>them queen or something....hehehehe....um...cough. Um what was it you
>wanted
>to know Mrs. Matusi?"
>
>"Well, Mr. Zeus I was thinking that alot of the infighting I'm seeing
>may be a result of the family structure you've created...maybe a trip
>to the school counselor could....."
>
>"No I don't think that will be necessary....I can handle this I
>think...I am omnipotent you know."
>
>"Well if you think you can handle it...but I don't know......ok. Do you
>have any questions for me before you go?"
>
>"Just one....What time does MISTER Matusi get Home?"
>
>
>Ms. Moshen's 1st grade class....
>
>Ms. Isis-Osiris please take a seat."
>
>"They're a bit small."
>
>"Yes, I know - student desks...please take a seat...I'm sorry about the
>rush but we only have 15 minutes before my next session."
>
>"Well, Ms.Isis-Osiris I wanted to tell you that Horus is an excellent
>student and really attentive. He's quiet, and his vocabulary is
>advanced....you must be proud."
>
>Why yes I am...it hasn't been easy....his father died before he was
>born and we're still picking up the pieces...."
>
>"Yes...well that's the only thing I wanted to talk to you about....I'm
>asking you to make sure he no longer brings those pieces to school for
>Show & Tell....I'm afraid one of the teacher's aides fainted dead away
>when he brought in his father's....well...his.... *whispering*
>....penis."
>
>"That's where it is! That little dickens.....Well, I'll make sure he
>doesn't bring it anymore...between us I think he is making sure he
>remains an only child...spoiled rotten as he is."
>
>"Um....yeah."
>
>
>Mr.Penobscot's 9th grade class.....
>
>Well the problem is this Ms. Demeter....by the way I hope that seat
>isn't too small? No? Good? Well the problem is Persephone's grades are
>dropping fast....she's started dressing in black and has been warned
>about coming to school and changing into banned "Marilyn Manson"
>t-shirts in the ladies room. Her assignments and writings are taking a
>dark turn and she is talking alot about death. We suspect she may be
>getting involved in the occult or something like that. Kids who get into
>
>the Goth stuff seem to be dabblers and maybe you should consult your
>pastor."
>
>Ummmmm Thanks....but we don't have a pastor...."
>
>"Here let me give you a leaflet from my church ...you're more than
>welcome to join us on Sunday...."
>
>"yeahhhhhhh...."
>
>"And you might not know it but she has been caught meeting a shady
>character named Hades out by the school fence at recess....I don't like
>the looks of this guy, he looks like Death warmed over......"
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>There are two things we can give our children. One is roots. The other is
>wings.
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
| Subject: |
Patricia's Cat |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:00:21 -0800 (PST) |
|
Mars Pater, protector of the animals of the forests and fields, we honor you
and pray for the speedy and complete recovery of Patricia Cassia's cat.
Salve Patricia Cassia. Our eleven cats, most of whom are rescues, also send
your cat lots of positive feline energy.
Vale.
M. Mala Gangalius et Gaia Mala Gangalia
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:06:18 EST |
|
Sabinus,
The fact of the matter is that not too many citizens are offering up any
contributions. A dues structure or some form of mandatory monetary
contribution is needed.
Again, we are not talking about hundreds of dollars. I think Domanitus'
suggestion of $1.00 a month ($12.00 a year) is feasible and workable.
How anyone can be against such a thing yet suggest membership status based
upon levels of donation or generous contributions is beyond me. Citizens are
willing to contribute $20 - $10,000 for Honestiores or Spectabiles or
contribute $100 in monetary gifts but not $12 in mandatory dues? Hmmmmm....?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:26:24 -0500 |
|
Salvete Quinte Poppaee et alii
I am not sure whether whether I'm declining your nomen correctly; please
correct me if not.
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=000154235007078134036098066248147208071048" >Oplonti--------...</--------;
>
>Salvete,
>I do not like the idea of a mandatory dues structure for Nova Roma.
It's nice to know that I'm not the only one :).
>Citizenship in a micronation is not quite the same thing as joining a club
or
>similar type of organization. You should not have to buy citizenship.
>Mandatory dues sound to me like someone saying "Hey mister - do you want to
>join our group and vote in our elections ? Just give us some money."
I can't help but include your comments, as I think that they are right on.
Nova
>Roma should be able to rely on its members to voluntarily give what they
can
>to support the organization. If the members of Nova Roma are going to make
>contributions only when they are threatened with loss of membership, well,
>that doesn't say much for their honor or their integrity. If you join an
>organization and are not willing to use your own initiative to support that
>organization, then maybe you shouldn't have joined in the first place.
---some good stuff deleted for space-------------
How about something like this: Level 1,
>Humiliores, free. Level 2, Honestiores, $20.
>Level 3, Perfectissimus, $50. Level 4, Nobilissimus, $100.
>Level 5, Clarissimus, $500. Level 6, Spectabiles, $1000.
>Level 7, Illustrius, $10,000.
Excellent idea! May I humbly suggest that you send this to the senate at
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a>?
These grandiose titles are from the later
>Empire and do not have any real use in the new republic.
That's ok. As you point out, the titles do not denote any magisterial
function in NR, just honorary status. That's exactly how we can incorporate
imperial institutions - for trivia :).
>time limit. And if some of our stodgier Republicans object to using
Imperial
>class titles, we could name the membership contribution levels something
else
>- like copper, brass , bronze, silver, gold, etc.
Whatever the title, I think that this is a terrific idea.
>I like the idea of making contributions at the Gens level. That could be
very
>useful.
It could be useful, but, as others have pointed out, it could be confusing
as well. And, what if your pater/materfamilias is hard to reach, moving,
etc.; what if a quarter or more of our citizens have trouble maintaining
contact with their NR parents? Also, the more recipients of contributions,
the more possibilites for errors. In this case, I have to say that it makes
more sense to deal with the center directly - send the checks to Nova Roma's
address as posted on the website.
I really hope that you send this idea to the senate in the form of a
proposal. It's too good to die on the cyber-vine.
>Valete,
>Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
>
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:05:05 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 10:51:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a> writes:
<< Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs (Patrick
Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.
Does anyone know where he is? >>
well I don't know where he is but there is a problem here. When I first found
Nova Roma I tried to conntact a gentes through the e-mail. They never
responded,. I wonder how many of the Gentes are defunct and we just don't know
it. Perhaps the we take a calling of the Rolls once a year. Perhaps we can
send in a report to our provencial representatives.
P.A. Olivia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:19 -0500 |
|
Salvete Gangalii et alii
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>First of all, in keeping with the metaphor of a government, let us call the
>assessment of financial support to Nova Roma a tax.
Yes, you're right. And it is more than a metaphor, based on the
declarations, the Constitution and the recent elections.
>
>I quote from Marcus Brutus: "Who is here so rude that would not be a Roman?
>If any, speak; for him have I offended. Who is here so vile that will not
>love his country? If any, speak; for him have I offended."
What's that? Is someone calling me in the forum? I thought that I heard my
name...
>
>And in this vein I ask, who is here so impoverished as cannot spare a
>sestertius for Mater Roma? If any, I say let the censors enroll him in the
>Capite Censi, the "Head Count". Then let it be a matter for the Senate to
>decide whether the Capite Censi shall be enfranchised in future elections.
Before we start branding people X Y Z negative label, let's see a budget, or
references from a NR magistrate/senator or coupling thereof to a concrete
budget, informing us of the definite need to raise X Y Z amount of money, to
fund X Y Z activities.
Will the budget require work? Oh yes, it will. That is, I suppose, why we
have senators and magistrates, isn't it? Hopefully, the most verbose of the
pro-taxation advocates are sufficiently concerned by Nova Roma's impending
doom due to lack of funds to help NR's senate and magistrates come up with a
budget.
>
>May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
Iste vir tam vilis qui respondere tibi audetur
>-------------
>Tom and Gail Gangale
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Mars Society California
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
>
>The Martian Time Web Site
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
>
>The Martian Ministry of Culture
><a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
>
>Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
><a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
>
>The National Primary System
><a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
>
>World GenWeb Calabria
><a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
|
| Subject: |
Gentes / Ideas / Research |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:00:18 -0500 (EST) |
|
I don't know where Patrick Dunn is either, but the Censors are supposed
to know. Cassius when he was Consul went through hoops trying to
establish who was a voting member and who was not. If I remember
correctly, there were about 40 or 50 that could not be identified. I
believe also that information, is still fairly current, so perhaps your
answer to Patrick Dunn lies in that area.
The Citizen's List is currently under construction by a hard-working and
industrious young lady of all our aquaintance, and should be completed
in good time. She has undertaken this task for NR, to sort out several
problems and a whole mound of applications, and to complete this
listing. Please be patient, as the job is a difficult and time
consuming one.
On another matter, I have been asked to keep a record of "new ideas"
which are introduced on the NR Onelist, so that we will not lose the
ideas of the citizenship into "cyberspace." In addition several of you
have introduced ideas about a raffle / auction. I personnally think it
a great idea, but others have indicated that permits / license etc. must
be obtained ad local laws obeyed. An idea as valuable as it is, must be
researched by an international entity such as we and this research takes
time. I know that you are impatient for results, but your Magistrates
are really working very hard to clear these bottlenecks and give you
what you wish.
In regard to the "Strawman Budget" that I had the honor to be involved
with in some small way; it is now in it's 2nd format and forwarded to a
Financial Committee which has been formed for specific proposed monetary
inputs which were not available when the 2nd Strawman was drawn up. I
will keep you informed as new information becomes available
In regard to dues I have and continue to maintain a folder on ideas, pro
and con feelings and several good ideas about how this discussion can be
settled. May I most humbly suggest that those of you who made a verbal
proposal from the Forum now take these ideas and propose them to the
Onelist in some kind of format that will indicate people's preferences
and give the Senior Magistartes / Senate something to vote upon. The
suggstion was made that I personnally, undertake this effort for NR and
I am very flattered to be considered for such an honorable task, but as
a very junior magistrate, I have previous commitments to my seniors that
I must be about. However, I am sure some other citizen much better
known and experienced than I could undertake such an effort. I have
learned much from your inputs on the list, and there are many far better
qualified than I to take such a task on. I would be glad to help by
providing the information from my folders to make up a suitable
questionaire.
In closing, I want to take this opportunity to thank all the Citizens
for their ideas and inputs. Those are vital and necessary for NR to
grow and become strong. However, I would ask you all to remember, that
with every idea a certain amount of research is required and if the
person who puts the idea forth does not have the time to research the
idea thoroughly, then someone else must do it, and it is that time which
we all feel hangs heavy on our hands, for as one of you has so wisely
said," Magistrates on prison-leave to administer NR is not exactly
comforting." <Grin>.
I thank you for your most kind attention to this missive, I remain your
Most Humble and Obedient Servant;
Very Respectfully
Marcus Minucius Audens;
Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
?terfamilias (was Re: Dues Structure) |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:01:59 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salvete omnes...
You know--I haven't heard from my materfamilias in quite some time
either. She's in college, so may conceivably have got caught up in
schoolwork...but she last wired in early September, and I know the
academic year has seen at least a couple of slow spots since then.
(She was going to do up a Web page for our gens, and was soliciting
contributions.)
If anyone has heard from Agrippina Maria Glauca
(<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=029181253209074162050149203219129208071" >mbozzuto@--------</a>; --------might have tran--------red to UPenn
since then) more recently than I have, give me a private holler...I'm
fixin' to ping her myself, she's been gone almost as long as my
Praetor!
Mille gratias vobis ago...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends
|
| Subject: |
Xanten |
| From: |
"Hnikar" Hnikar@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:59:31 -0800 |
|
I'm going to try to include a translated portion of the first URL you
mentioned, Fannius. It was translated by Altavista, then moved temporarily
to my server (so it wouldn't take up much space in a post). Those
interested should download it as I'll remove it in a couple of days. If it
doesn't work, or if you want to translate more frames, AltaVista is a free
service. The translated Xanten page is at
<a href="http://www.dock.net/Hnikar/xanten.htm" target="_top" >http://www.dock.net/Hnikar/xanten.htm</a> .
I do want to add that your postscript over-simplifies the very complex
relationship of the Romans and Germans, whether one is speaking of their
common proto-Indo-European origins or of the Late Empire (for which you
really must read Herwig Wolfram's "The Roman Empire and Its Germanic
Peoples").
Lastly, would the fellow with the site to Mars please post the URL again?
Hnikar
AOR/AFA/Raven Kindred (Asatru Alliance)
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=103071020163158209015223190036129" >Hnikar@--------</a> or <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=137212113105158135028082190036" >Crawa@w...</a>
Odin's Nation News
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5056/" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5056/</a>
-----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:26:47 -0800
&-------- From: "Gehn" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123056214185146072033082190" &--------ehn@--------</a&--------/font>
>Subject: Roman ruins - reconstructed
>
>Has anyone heard or been to Xanten or Kempten (archeological parks)? I
>stumbled upon a reference to them in "Ancient Rome, An Illustrated
>Historical Overview (Crash Course Series)". I looked for a website for them
>and I found them, but they are in German, and as far as I can tell there is
>no English translation. They seem pretty intrusting. If anyone could give
me
>some info on them I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>The website urls are:
><a href="http://www.xanten.de/" target="_top" >http://www.xanten.de/</a>
><a href="http://www.kempten.de/" target="_top" >http://www.kempten.de/</a>
>
>- Fannius
>
>P.S. Isn't it ironic how the enemies of Rome now harbor reconstruction of
>roman ruins?
|
| Subject: |
Annual Report of Gens |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:09:11 -0500 (EST) |
|
Well, Patricia, I'm about as far from bening a Senator as you can get,
but I like the idea a lot. I would be willing to help with a proposal
if you wish or simply endorse it when sent.
I believe that I can without fear of censure assure you that your idea
will be looked upon with both the merit and understanding that it
deserves and will be received by the Senior Magistrates with enthusiasm.
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Honoring My Adopted Ancestors |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:23:27 -0500 (EST) |
|
I thank both Patricia Cassia and Venator for their most kind comments to
my attempt at honoring my ancestors. If you find worth in my efforts
you may, of course, have my permission to post it on the Web site. I
thank you again for your kind words!
Very Respecfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:35:40 -0800 |
|
Salve, Oplontia!
I wish to add my voice to the others who have suggested that you submit these
ideas
to the Se-------- <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a> as a proposal. Various se--------rs have said
that they do not take what is said on the List or in the Chat Room as proposals
to be considered for discussion. This is probably because there is just so
much, from every conceivable angle of opinion that is hashed over in these two
places. The Senators have also said that if someone has a proposal that
person(s) should submit it to the Senate. Look at that post of FClaudia's a few
days back.
Oplontia your proposal is fairly well sketched out as it is. Look it over and
think seriously of submitting it. If you don't want to throw it to the Senate
as a whole, pick one Senator to present it for you. Flavia Claudia perhaps.
By the way, I am still ambivalent regarding any of the directions, and
arguments, on this money raising debate. I could argue in almost any
direction. "Almost". An actual Budget sketch would give us all something to
look at, and understand what places we Need money to go to, and what places we
Want money to go to, and what places we Wish money to go to.
nuf sed.
Vale.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:34:42 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 10:31:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
<< How about something like this: Level 1,
>Humiliores, free. Level 2, Honestiores, $20.
>Level 3, Perfectissimus, $50. Level 4, Nobilissimus, $100.
>Level 5, Clarissimus, $500. Level 6, Spectabiles, $1000.
>Level 7, Illustrius, $10,000.
Excellent idea! May I humbly suggest that you send this to the senate at
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a>? >>
Ok...while not to be the sour grape...if no one is now offering money as a
contribution, what makes you think any citizens will do so for a title?
--Dexippus
"No Representation without Taxation!".....LOL...just thought it was fruitful
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:36:33 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 11:47:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:
<< This sounds like a good idea to me. Perhaps, to ease the burden on the
provincial magistrates, we may ask that each P/Materfamilias report in
once a year to renew the presence of his or her Gens in Nova Roma. >>
Not bad...but I still think our needs would be better served through
individual citizen dues (or tax) instead of through the gens.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:35:18 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 10:51:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
writes:
<< Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs (Patrick
Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.
Does anyone know where he is?
>>
As Augur, he is communing with the Gods
--Dexippus
Other Augur
|
| Subject: |
Re: Annual Report of Gens |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:30:26 -0500 |
|
Salvete Marce Minuci et Patricia Cassia et alii
Audens wrote-
Well, Patricia, I'm about as far from bening a Senator as you can get,
To which I say-
O come now! You're a magistrate. Move up a single rung on the cursus
honorum and you're in like Flynn! I am as far from being a Senator as you
can get.
Audens continued-
I believe that I can without fear of censure assure you that your idea
will be looked upon with both the merit and understanding that it
deserves and will be received by the Senior Magistrates with enthusiasm.
To which I add, unsolicited though it may be-
I have no idea how any senior (or junior, for that matter) magistrates will
accept it, but I think that it's a good idea. Not a huge report,
necessarily, just a summary of which citizens were in the gens at the
beginning of the year, which were there at year end, contact information,
and whatever else the pater/materfamilias wants to put in there (as long as
it isn't obscene :)).
Wherever possible, I think that the burden of time and responsibility for
keeping track of citizens should devolve off of the shoulders of NR's
magistrates, and down to us, the citizens.
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:41:18 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>Ok...while not to be the sour grape...if no one is now offering money as a
>contribution, what makes you think any citizens will do so for a title?
Well, for one thing: it is not true that noone is now offering money.
Contributions may not be amounting to as much as some have said we need,
should have et cetera, but contributions most surely are being made.
As far as the utility of titles go, I think that it is a good idea: some
people may be more enthusiastic about being entitled "Honestor" or whatever
for a certain amount of time, than about buying a stamp (not to take
anything away from another good idea). Whatever incentives Nova Roma can
present to donors, short of selling status, influence, office et cetera, are
good things in my view. To receive these titles would be kind of like
having a wing in a hospital named after you...just a Hel of a lot cheaper.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
"Gaius Triumphius" poeticfiend@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:01:47 PST |
|
>From: Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
>
>Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs (Patrick
>Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.
>
>Does anyone know where he is?
>
>Pythia
Patrick Dunn is attending university. To contact him the best I can
give is is his ICQ# 8302107 which is at his mother's house. She is on
fairly often and could contact him.
Hope that helps,
Gaius Triumphius,
ProPraetor, Paterfamilias
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:04:27 EST |
|
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=000154235007078134036098066248147208071048" >Oplonti--------...</--------;
>
>Salvete,
>I do not like the idea of a mandatory dues structure for Nova Roma.
>Citizenship in a micronation is not quite the same thing as joining a club or
>similar type of organization. You should not have to buy citizenship.
[big snip]
I find even the term "dues" inappropriate (although I have been using it
also). Bowling clubs require "dues." Nations don't. Nations levy taxes.
Taxes are what citizens pay for the support of their nation and its
actions. If Nova Roma is going to be just a quaint little club on the
Internet, then go on and collect "dues." But you'll have to change the
whole nature of what we say we are in order to make it just a club.
I agree that citizenship should not be contingent upon paying "dues." If
we provided any kind of service when someone becomes a citizen, then it
would be perfectly appropriate to charge a fee for that service, such as
for a subscription to the Eagle. We could offer passports to citizens and
charge for that (the U. S. certainly charges hefty fees for passports).
Nova Roma could (and I think should) establish some sort of taxation, but
payment should remain voluntary. I don't think it should be viewed as a
charitable "donation" because it is essential to the operation of the
nation. Any thing given above the established tax level would be a
donation. People who don't pay and aren't excused by the Senate would
just be in arrears, with no penalty (at least until we re-locate the
Tarpeian Rock!).
>.... How about something like this: Level 1,
>Humiliores, free. Level 2, Honestiores, $20.
>Level 3, Perfectissimus, $50. Level 4, Nobilissimus, $100.
>Level 5, Clarissimus, $500. Level 6, Spectabiles, $1000.
>Level 7, Illustrius, $10,000. These grandiose titles are from the later
>Empire and do not have any real use in the new republic. For our purposes
>these titles would only indicate a level of contribution, with no other
>meaning, and would be good for a year.
If I were to donate $10,000, I'd better be hailed as "Illustrius" for a
lot more than a year!!!
L. Sergius Aust.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxing the Gentes |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:04:29 EST |
|
>From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
>One problem I can see right off the bat is that it multiplies the number
>of sets
>of books that must be kept. Stop and think of the Big problems that can come
>from that. Most important though is that All of those books would have to
>be up
>to Internal Revenue Service standards if NR is ever to get tax-free
>status. And
>keep it. And not have people in the slammer.
I would hope that we would aspire to higher standards than the U. S. IRS.
We certainly couldn't be much of a nation if we kept our financial
records on napkins and in peoples' heads, no matter whether the money
comes primarily from individuals or from the gentes. So we will have to
have those books and those problems in any case.
Citizens who are also U. S. citizens and who want to deduct their NR
taxes as donations to a non-profit organization (when we get there) would
have to keep their own record of what they paid, and would probably have
to get individual receipts. I would think that could be done at the level
of the gens.
L. Sergius Aust.
|
| Subject: |
Annual Gens / Titles |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:27:30 -0500 (EST) |
|
LOL, Perhaps you are right, Friend Gaius Marius Merullus, I truly did
not look at it that way!!! It was kind of you to bring it to my
attention and I do thank you for your faith in me. It is very pleasing
to have supporters of your caliber within the citizens of NR. I would
not agree that you are that far away from the Senate either. Your
comments are astute, well thought out and productive. In that measure,
at least, you are an equal to any here. I agree that the burden and
time of keeping track of the NR membership should devolve off the
shoulders of the NR Magistrates, as soon as it can be taken care of in
another way.
I further agree with your concept of people being interested in titles.
Your anology is an good one. It may be hard for some people to see
(admit), but ego is a characteristic of human kind, and not any less so
for being a "Roman." (my opinion only).
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:49:28 -0800 |
|
And RE: all the other talk about money for Nova Roma. Whether the writer have
tried to recapture the supposed pomposity of M.Tullius Cicero et alterae, or
just spoke in good ole down home fashion...
A lot of people have been talking about NR needing money for this or that.. and
how it should be easy for that group or this group to shell out hard earned
cash... and how people are welcome to give money to NR, but I've heard nobody
say they were giving any.
I've given before. I will give now.
Patricia Cassia, I am sending a personal check for a mere $20.00 to you at the
Wells, Maine address. The same address I used the last time. Like the last
time I request you let me know when it has arrived, so I won't have to hunt down
the post-person. This time I request you post the receipt to OneList.
No foo-fraw about it being an offering to this deity or that. The money is for
Nova Roma. I trust it will be used properly.
I have, for the most part, spoken out Against charging citizens for being
Citizens.
I ask... No. I challenge those who think that the other guy should be taxed
(dues, whatever you semantic preference is) to throw a Twenty in the pot. An
additional $100 US won't satisfy all the needs and fantasies of NR, but it might
get the pressure off so that we can accomplish the job more in the nature of a
fine tooled piece of machinery than a slapped together log raft.
Cassia, I've got the enveloped addressed, I'm making the check out to Nova Roma.
I hope that is okay. My archives have your reply to my previous being sent, I
just don't have any thing on who/what it was made out to. No mail service
today. Check goes in the mail tomorrow. Cassia, you should have it on Thursday
or Friday. You also have until 8:30 pm Pacific time to tell me that the address
or Payee is incorrect.
To you people of substance with tight purse strings, You have more money than I
do. I'm a glorified file clerk with no advancement. Expenses I will not go into
(dignitas you know). I'm going to be having some dry sandwiches for lunch
because of this "mere" $20.00. Fabius and Sulla! How much was the tab on that
dinner you treated yourselves to? In San Francisco you'd be lucky to get away
with a $40 tab. More like $50 to $60. Next time go to McDonalds and send the
difference to Nova Roma. [LOL] (I'm not going to hold my breath on That one!
LOL)
Okay. I'm starting to adopt that Roma Antiqua pomposity, I'll stop.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma budget priorities |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:15:02 -0800 |
|
Thank you for posting this to OneList. It is the type of solid
conceptualization that will help.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:15:21 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 2/15/99 3:06:46 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
writes:
<< I agree that citizenship should not be contingent upon paying "dues." If
we provided any kind of service when someone becomes a citizen, then it
would be perfectly appropriate to charge a fee for that service, such as
for a subscription to the Eagle. We could offer passports to citizens and
charge for that (the U. S. certainly charges hefty fees for passports). >>
Ok...getting away from the word "dues". A citizenship tax does provide a
service. Through it's payment, one remains a citizen of a state and is
thereby entitled to the priveleges herein: participation in forums, voting
rights, participation in government and priesthoods, etc.
There is nothing wrong nor unacceptable with a tax structure in place on
citizens.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:12:04 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 2:46:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
<< As far as the utility of titles go, I think that it is a good idea: some
people may be more enthusiastic about being entitled "Honestor" or whatever
for a certain amount of time, than about buying a stamp (not to take
anything away from another good idea). Whatever incentives Nova Roma can
present to donors, short of selling status, influence, office et cetera, are
good things in my view. To receive these titles would be kind of like
having a wing in a hospital named after you...just a Hel of a lot cheaper. >>
I don't see that will be the case. But you can give it a try. I will
maintain that a mandatory "tax" (ok, let's call it what that for authenticity)
is the only way to maintain a constant stream of income. There is no
government on the planet that does not tax. We should not be surprised to
have it be here in Nova Roma.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:25:26 -0800 |
|
Cassia, I'm quoting you end part extensively. You put the right words to it. I
agree with your words entirely, including the part of going along if I am
overruled. Of course I ain't that sure about just how peaceful I am. Nor to
what point I would stay should Nova Roma ever lose sight of what brought it into
the light of day.
Caius Aelius Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Annual Gens / Titles |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:12 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 3:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
<< I further agree with your concept of people being interested in titles.
Your anology is an good one. It may be hard for some people to see
(admit), but ego is a characteristic of human kind, and not any less so
for being a "Roman." (my opinion only). >>
Yes...ego goes a long way. But if we are arguing (ok...discussing) here about
a $12 mandatory tax, who'se going to donate $10,000 to have a title?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:26:31 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 5:09:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:
<< I still do not believe we should have any dues whatever. I and a
significant number of Nova Romans have joined the organization for
religious reasons, and to us, such a proposal smacks of charging for
religion. I realize that there are others whose motive in joining are
different, and I am a peaceful member of the Republic so will go along if
I am overruled. >>
Patricia...I agree with you in that I joined for solely religious reasons too.
But we did understand when we joined that this is more than a religious
organization. It is a micronation. There is no nation on earth that does not
tax it's citizens. We have a lot of plans in the making other than just
communicating about this god and that goddess. This takes money. I don't
think anyone here is asking for a tithe of their income. Just a yearly
contribution to ensure that things keep moving.
--Dexippus
<<Nothing in this world is free...not even the air!>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:23:06 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/15/99 4:51:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< I have, for the most part, spoken out Against charging citizens for being
Citizens.
I ask... No. I challenge those who think that the other guy should be taxed
(dues, whatever you semantic preference is) to throw a Twenty in the pot. An
additional $100 US won't satisfy all the needs and fantasies of NR, but it
might
get the pressure off so that we can accomplish the job more in the nature of
a
fine tooled piece of machinery than a slapped together log raft. >>
Ericius, I think that challenge should go to those who DO NOT believe a tax
should be levied on citizenship. I and others are advocating that a flat tax
should be commissioned on ALL citizens. I would challenge those who are
against the tax to fork up the doughe and prove otherwise that a tax or other
form of mandatory income is not needed.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:11:00 -0800 |
|
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> I would challenge those who are
> against the tax to fork up the doughe and prove otherwise that a tax or other
> form of mandatory income is not needed.
>
> --Dexippus
Is this another version of, "Not me, the other guy"?
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Patrick Dunn |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:58:04 -0600 (CST) |
|
On 02/16/99 11:53:47 you wrote:
>
>From: Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
>
>Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs (Patrick
>Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.
>
>Does anyone know where he is?
>
You're about the fourth person I've heard ask this. I have his e-mail and URL and I'll try to reach him.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
-------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 99 17:09:12 -0000 |
|
From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
Merullus suggested:
> >Humiliores, free.
Accurate the title may be, but it also sounds slightly condescending.
How
about Capite Censi?
I still do not believe we should have any dues whatever. I and a
significant number of Nova Romans have joined the organization for
religious reasons, and to us, such a proposal smacks of charging for
religion. I realize that there are others whose motive in joining are
different, and I am a peaceful member of the Republic so will go along
if
I am overruled.
Patricia Cassia
I must agree with Patricia Cassia. I joined from a religious feeling. I
am a Pagan teacher in my area. I do not charge to teach people. They get
to buy their own materials because I can't buy them for them, but they
have my time, my support, and the benefit of my experience for the year
and a day or so that I teach them. The most I have ever gotten was some
bread and taken out to dinner, totally the student's idea, because the
idea of suggesting such is repulsive. So aside from the lack of
finances...this was an area i wasn't going to touch and I thank Patricia
Cassia for bringing it up.
L. Iunia Cypria
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:19:15 -0600 (CST) |
|
On 02/15/99 14:41:18 you wrote:
>
>From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Dexippe et alii
>
>
>
>>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>>
>>Ok...while not to be the sour grape...if no one is now offering money as a
>>contribution, what makes you think any citizens will do so for a title?
>
>Well, for one thing: it is not true that noone is now offering money.
>Contributions may not be amounting to as much as some have said we need,
>should have et cetera, but contributions most surely are being made.
They certainly are. We simply respect the privacy of the donors.
Mostly. Some of us got outted.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues & bowling |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:16:37 -0600 (CST) |
|
On 02/15/99 15:04:27 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=000154235007078134036098066248147208071048" >Oplonti--------...</--------;
>>
>>Salvete,
>>I do not like the idea of a mandatory dues structure for Nova Roma.
>>Citizenship in a micronation is not quite the same thing as joining a club or
>>similar type of organization. You should not have to buy citizenship.
>[big snip]
>I find even the term "dues" inappropriate (although I have been using it
>also). Bowling clubs require "dues."
Now THIS is a great idea! Bowling for Denarii! What a way to build up the Treasury.
I myself can't wait to get some of those tri-color Caligae, and a tunic with my Roman name stitched over the
pocket and "Sponsored by Honest Gaius' Chariot Body Repair" emblazoned on the back. A chance to make a
fashion statement AND raise money.
Each gens fields a team and each team in the league is sponsored by the Gods of the gens! Thus: "Hurlers for
Hera" and "Persephone's Pin-Smashers" and "Bellona's BowlMasters" or "Vesta's Viragos!"
Wow! Maybe we can organize matches! Vestals against the Legios! Or maybe Pats vs. Plebs!
This is WAY better than pudding wrestling.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Dues Structure |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:07:55 -0800 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I understand this concern. However, as the Web Page states, "We are nothing
less than a sovereign nation; an attempt to re-create the best of classical
pagan Rome." Being a Nation in any sense of the word requires a sustained
source of income. The most equitible for this to be achieved would be
through the equitible disbursement of taxition. Personally I prefer a
scaled system dependent upon income. Also, with some exemptions in mind.
For example, for Pregnant or disabled citizens. The needs of the State
require a firm financial footing so that we can achieve our goals. Our
Consuls had a great vision and an outstanding set of goals that they want to
achieve. But, how can they achieve them? Through their own pockets? No.
Let all of us share in the successes of Nova Roma together.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanis
>
> I still do not believe we should have any dues whatever. I and a
> significant number of Nova Romans have joined the organization for
> religious reasons, and to us, such a proposal smacks of charging for
> religion. I realize that there are others whose motive in joining are
> different, and I am a peaceful member of the Republic so will go along
> if
> I am overruled.
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
> I must agree with Patricia Cassia. I joined from a religious feeling. I
> am a Pagan teacher in my area. I do not charge to teach people. They get
> to buy their own materials because I can't buy them for them, but they
> have my time, my support, and the benefit of my experience for the year
> and a day or so that I teach them. The most I have ever gotten was some
> bread and taken out to dinner, totally the student's idea, because the
> idea of suggesting such is repulsive. So aside from the lack of
> finances...this was an area i wasn't going to touch and I thank Patricia
> Cassia for bringing it up.
>
> L. Iunia Cypria
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Speech at forum II |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:25:18 -0600 (CST) |
|
On 02/15/99 11:45:19 you wrote:
>
>From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
>>I quote from Marcus Brutus: "Who is here so rude that would not be a Roman?
>>If any, speak; for him have I offended. Who is here so vile that will not
>>love his country? If any, speak; for him have I offended."
Uh...actually, aren't you quoting from Shakespeare?
-- Flavia Claudia
|
