Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:53:47 +0000

RMerullo wrote:
>


Q.Poppaeus wrote:

> >I like the idea of making contributions at the Gens level. That could be
> very
> >useful.
>
And Merullus added:

> It could be useful, but, as others have pointed out, it could be confusing
> as well. And, what if your pater/materfamilias is hard to reach, moving,
> etc.; what if a quarter or more of our citizens have trouble maintaining
> contact with their NR parents?


Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs (Patrick
Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.

Does anyone know where he is?

Pythia
________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:37:06 GMT

-----Original Message Follows----

Salvete omnes.

First of all, in keeping with the metaphor of a government, let us call
the
assessment of financial support to Nova Roma a tax. I have heard the
United
States of America referred to as the world's least exclusive club, and I
am
proud to be a member of that club, but nowhere on the Form 1040 do I
find
the word "dues".

I concur with Dexippus. I think that taxation by gens has a great many
pitfalls that a straightforward capitation tax would avoid. Shall
larger
gentes be assessed more than smaller ones? Shall each paterfamilias be
forced into tax farming? Shall the paterfamilias be liable for any
shortfall should certain members of his gens fail to pay him their
portion
of the tax?

Q. Fabius's idea of an annus gratis is very good. One free year is more
than sufficient time in which to grow to love Nova Roma and to commit to
supporting her. What if some choose to leave at the end of that year?
What
quality of citizenry shall we have lost?

I quote from Marcus Brutus: "Who is here so rude that would not be a
Roman?
If any, speak; for him have I offended. Who is here so vile that will
not
love his country? If any, speak; for him have I offended."

-Personally speaking, my internet connection has been via the college
library until I had a roomie move in who had a computer. I don't have
money to spare. I can give effort. I have been working on a prolonged
project for me gentes nine months ago researching the cults of Iuno and
Diana. I have access to info and a love of learning, money is an iffy
thing, and I have had months where the only thing that got paid was the
rent and some gas and groceries. I've had other months where I have
money and it goes to catching stuff up since my job is feast or famine
for work, and that's the way it is until I get my degree. If I can spare
money, I will give it, but I usually can't and if you want to talk like
anyone who can't afford to give doesn't deserve to participate and has
minimal value to Roma, you are entitled to your opinion, but try living
someone else's life for once.

L. Iunia Cypria

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:47:29 GMT

----Original Message Follows----

Subject:	Pay Dues to Vote - Hold Office ?
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:17:56 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


February 15, 1999
Year of Rome 2751

Ave et ReSalutatio... Cives de NovaRoma

Hello and Greetings Again from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
Tribune Militaris, NovaRoma Gens Velia
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=123143014056175043015098190036129" >gwmetz@--------</--------; 610-363-4982

Since my "posting" of February 8th "re-lit" the fire under the
cauldron of possible NovaRoma Dues and it has come to a
steady "boil"; I will stir the pot some more.

Several "dues paying" and "non-dues paying" schemes have been
put forth. Here is another proposal.

Those who desire to hold office and/or have a voice in the current
and future affairs of our Nation should be required to express their
commitment to NovaRoma by investing in its future as a
Dues Paying Citizen in Good Standing.
In one organization I am active with, a one-time "Trusteeship"
payment of $100.00, plus annual dues is required to be on the
"Board", vote and govern its affairs, thus assuring that only
"committed" and "vested" members are directing the organization.

Those who are content to simply associate with NovaRoma through
cyber-chat could do so for free; but, would have no "say" in what
NovaRoma may or should become. Again, there is no free lunch.

Cyber-chat is not paying the cost of maintaining the "website",
the subscription to "OneList", the cost of producing and mailing
the "Eagle" or "endowing" the future of our NovaRoma Nation.
Unfortunately, Love and Affection for Ancient Rome and the Ideals
of NovaRoma will not pay its bills.

At this time, NovaRoma is a pauper nation !

Who is going to finance those grand land purchase and Capitol
building proposals being put forth ? The Easter Bunny ?. . .
The Gods ?. . . Coin and trinket sales ?. . . Don't bet on it !

Maybe that jolly old man in a red suit with a sleigh and eight flying
reindeer (nine if you count Rudolph) might be willing to help out.

All kidding aside and not to brag, I have been involved with and
presided over many organizations, local and statewide and I
can attest that voluntary contributions are not effective in raising
needed funds; especially when a defined plan, course of action
or direction is not evident.
It has been said; That if you have no Map, any Road may get you
there. . . eventually. AND. . . from my observation; NovaRoma is
just wandering in cyberspace following a rather vague course of
action and an illusionary sense of future direction.

The Grand Commandery of (Masonic) Knights Templar of Pennsyl-
vania, over which I presided in 1996 and 97; had established an
endowment fund in 1994 and was relying on voluntary contributions.
In two years, about $400 had been contributed, and none of the money
had come from our members !, due in part, to a weak promotion of
the endeavor.
During my administration, a compulsory assessment of $5.00 per
member, per year, for ten years, $50.00 total, was proposed, and after
an explanation of "defined purpose and need" and almost two hours of
pro & con floor debate, was finally adopted by a wide margin.
An up-front payment of $40.00 prior to May 1999 was permitted and in
almost two years, about one-third of 10,000+ members "invested" over
$240,000 in the future of THEIR Grand Commandery, thus forestalling
inevitable and unpopular increases in the $4.00 annual per capita dues
every few years.

True, "NR" would not generate this magnitude of funding; but the
concept could be revelent.

Yes!, I know, I may be beating a dead horse; but if we don't establish
a dependable source of funding, we may eventually be lamenting a
dead or dying NovaRoma.

I stand ready to financially support NovaRoma's Goals with my dues
and more; IF and WHEN those goals become defined and realistic.

Let's cut the cyberchat BS and start seriously discussing where
NovaRoma is headed. And then, develop a realistic plan and vision
for what we want this Nation to be. Next year?. . . in five years?

If Not Us . . . WHO !
If we don't do something, who do we expect will do it ?

If Not Now . . . WHEN ?
If this is not the Right Time, when will the Time be Right ?

As always I remain;

Vester in Sodalem Reipublica Romana
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic


Gallio / George


O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A


ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
|| | | ||
|| |||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||
\/ | | \/
| |
| |

Subject:	Pay Dues to Vote Postscript
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:06:37 EST

February 15, 1999
Year of Rome 2751

Ave

Gallio Velius Marsallas, here again. . .

To my previous statement about the Love and Affection for
Ancient Rome and the Ideals of NovaRoma not paying its bills;
I should add that We owe a debt of thanks to those few
Citizens of NovaRoma who's love and affection for the Ideals
of NovaRoma are now paying those bills.

We should not expect them to keep doing this forever.

Its our NovaRoma. Let's all help support and assure its
continued existence.

Again, as always I remain;

Vester in Sodalem Reipublica Romana
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic


Gallio / George


Gallio Marsallas here again.

Subject:	Re: ROMA: Astrology in the Roman empire
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:56:49 EST

Salvete! Any of you can help this man out? E-mail info direct to him.
Thanks,
Valete!

Message is as follows: In a message dated 2/15/99 9:50:26 PM Pacific Standard
Time, John Melville-Jones writes:
I have been asked for information on this subject, particularly in regard
to the extent to which it might have affected political decisions.

Apart from the sort of material listed in the Oxford Classical Dictionary,
does anyone have comments or information on recent work done in this area?

I hope that this inquiry is being transmitted at an astrologically
auspicious moment.

John Melville-Jones
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=045212014056018096036181203043129208071" >jrmelvil@--------</a>

Subject:	[Fwd: 1999 Summer Latin Institute at UVa (fwd)]
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:17:56 -0800

Stephen Clark wrote:

> For information
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:59:47 -0400
> From: Adam Briggs <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243158250022099135130082190036" >acb4s@--------</a>
>
> In the summer of 1999 the Department of Classics at the University of
> Virginia will again offer Latin as one of the University's Summer Foreign
> Language Institutes. The program, which will take place from June 14
> through August 13, is an intensive course designed to cover two years of
> college-level Latin (12 UVa credit hours earned). Students who wish to
> acquire experience in reading Latin but do not require course credit may
> also choose a non-credit option, which is available at a lower tuition
> rate. No previous knowledge of Latin is required for participation. The
> Summer Latin Institute is an excellent opportunity for motivated students
> to achieve rapid proficiency in Latin.
>
> The Institute begins with the fundamentals of Latin grammar, including
> elementary readings and composition. In the second half of the program
> students read extensively from prose and verse authors at the intermediate
> level, in addition to completing more advanced exercises in prose
> composition and metrics. There are six hours of formal instruction per day
> and supplementary review sessions in the evenings.
>
> The University of Virginia is located in Charlottesville, a city with
> approximately 30,000 residents situated at the foot of the beautiful Blue
> Ridge Mountains. The University was founded by Thomas Jefferson, who also
> designed the Rotunda and the "Academical Village," which are the
> centerpiece of the University's grounds. Jefferson's celebrated home,
> Monticello, is nearby. Within driving distance are Washington, D.C. (2
> hours), Richmond (1 hour), and the Blue Ridge Parkway, Skyline Drive, and
> the Shenandoah Valley (45 minutes).
>
> A unique feature of the Summer Latin Institute at UVa is its housing
> option. The Latin House is supervised by a House Director who is also an
> instructor competent in the language. Evening study sessions, special
> activities, and assistance on assignments are all available at the Latin
> House, where students have ready access to reference materials and other
> study aids. The Latin House is located near the University's grounds,
> within walking distance of classes and the Corner District, where there is
> a variety of stores and eateries. Members of the program may purchase a
> Corner Meal Plan, valid at many restaurants on the Corner and around
> Charlottesville. The Latin House is also equipped with kitchen facilities.
> The cost of housing will not exceed $17.50 per diem.
>
> Participants in previous sessions of the Institute have benefitted greatly
> from this experience. For example, undergraduates from several
> institutions, including UVa, have applied credit earned at the Institute
> toward degrees in Classics and other related disciplines. Many UVa
> graduate students from such departments as History, Religious Studies, Art
> History, Philosophy, and English have completed our intensive program and
> continue to use Latin to further their educational and research objectives.
>
> The following is a sampling of comments made by students of the 1998 Latin
> Institute:
> ˆ "The work was challenging, but I felt well prepared."
> ˆ "The Latin Institute has instructors with creative and energetic
> approaches to language study."
> ˆ "Because of the intensive nature of the course, the role of the
> House Director was essential to my success."
> ˆ "The structure was most effective...the whole process was very
> rewarding."
> ˆ "Working in groups during class was an effective method."
> ˆ "I learned a tremendous amount of Latin in a very short period of
> time."
> ˆ "The student has been given a thorough base from which to
> continue study."
>
> For more information please contact:
>
> Professor Jenny Strauss Clay, <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=045059219081175135215082190036" >jsc2t@--------</a> OR
> SFLI Director Barbro Kelley, <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=014166091254127190015037190036129" >barbro@--------</a>
>
> Adam C. Briggs
> Department of Classics
> University of Virginia
> 401 New Cabell Hall
> Charlottesville, VA 22903
> TEL: (804)924-3008
> FAX: (804)924-3062

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:48 -0500

Salvete Patricia Cassia et alii



>From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
>Merullus suggested:

Actually, the credit should go to Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus, not to me.
>
>> >Humiliores, free.
>
>Accurate the title may be, but it also sounds slightly condescending. How
>about Capite Censi?

Well, that is just as derogatory, since the Capite Censi were the underclass
in the Roman Republic.
>
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Gangaliorum quote Re: Speech at forum II
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:31 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii

Actually, I just included a quote from Gangalii. I suppose you're probably
right, but I did not quote anybody but Civis Gangalius.

-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
To: <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>; <a href="mailto:novaroma@onelist.-------- >novaroma@onelist.--------lt;/a>
<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Speech at forum II


>On 02/15/99 11:45:19 you wrote:
>>
>>From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>>
>>>I quote from Marcus Brutus: "Who is here so rude that would not be a
Roman?
>>>If any, speak; for him have I offended. Who is here so vile that will
not
>>>love his country? If any, speak; for him have I offended."
>
>
>Uh...actually, aren't you quoting from Shakespeare?
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>

Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:31:20 EST

In a message dated 2/15/99 6:12:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<<
Is this another version of, "Not me, the other guy"? >>

No...No..No...just that I don't understand why there is pushback on a
mandatory tax/dues structure of a measely $12.00 a year but yet suggestions
for donations of $20 or more.

So...with that...here is my recommendation to be included on the official
record (per Audens request) and then I am leaving this discussion as it (like
the others before it) have become tiresome.

I recommend a tax of U.S. $12.00 per calendar year be levied on all Nova Roman
citizens beginning one year after their citizenship approval by the Censors.
The Gens will not be taxed nor be required to collect tax from their members
and forward to the treasury. Each citizen will be responsible for his/her own
tax payment directly to the NR treasury. Each Pater/Materfamilias can
encourage his/her gens members to pay the tax on time and in full but will not
be punished or fined if a gens member fails to do so.

Failure to pay the tax will result in a denial of certain priveleges that
should be voted on by the senate (not by the populace..afterall, this is why
we have elected officials). For instance...perhaps removal from the onelist
board for the first month a tax is late. Then perhaps a denial in voting
priveleges after 2 months of non-paid tax. Then finally removal of
citizenship after 3 months of non-paid tax. (these are just suggestions...I'm
sure the Senate and Censors can think of appropriate disciplinary actions in
each case). This will incent citizens to pay their tax on time and in full.

Furthermore, I propose that if an individual makes a voluntary donation equal
to or greater than the mandatory yearly tax, he/she be pardoned from paying
the tax for that year (but only that year...for instance, if someone makes a
donation of $24 dollars, that does not excuse him or her from paying next
year's $12 tax). If an individual makes a donation after that year's tax due
date, the donation pardon will carry into the following year. The added bonus
(and incentive) is that a voluntary donation will be tax deductible (pending
Cassius' submission of appropriate papers to the government) but the mandatory
tax will not be.

I believe this is a fair compromise and will help ease both tention and budget
concerns here in Nova Roma.

With this said...I'm done (of course though I will respond to any replies to
this suggestion...but this is my official proposal).

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:35:01 EST

In a message dated 2/15/99 10:37:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> writes:

<< If I can spare
money, I will give it, but I usually can't and if you want to talk like
anyone who can't afford to give doesn't deserve to participate and has
minimal value to Roma, you are entitled to your opinion, but try living
someone else's life for once. >>

I don't think anyone here is saying that if someone can't offer up the doughe
they have no value. But I doubt very much that any of us are so impoverished
that we can't afford a mere $12.00 a year. Not when we all have e-mail
accounts and computers. Something just doesn't jive there.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:37:16 EST

In a message dated 2/15/99 10:48:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> writes:

<< I must agree with Patricia Cassia. I joined from a religious feeling. I
am a Pagan teacher in my area. I do not charge to teach people. They get
to buy their own materials because I can't buy them for them, but they
have my time, my support, and the benefit of my experience for the year
and a day or so that I teach them. The most I have ever gotten was some
bread and taken out to dinner, totally the student's idea, because the
idea of suggesting such is repulsive. So aside from the lack of
finances...this was an area i wasn't going to touch and I thank Patricia
Cassia for bringing it up. >>

Yes...but again...Nova Roma is not a church (and even a church asks for tithes
at times). This is a micronation. It is much larger than just the religious
aspects (and you all know how fervament I am about the religious aspects here!
<<grin>>). We are trying to establish a government. We want to purchase
land. We want to hold religious and secular events. We want to buy a meeting
hall. Whatever we want to do, we need money! It's either that or pick up the
swords and go into battle! Venator? Audens? : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Patrick Dunn
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:42:08 PST

>Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:58:04 -0600 (CST)
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: Patrick Dunn
>
>On 02/16/99 11:53:47 you wrote:
>>
>>From: Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
>>
>>Well no one has seen hide nor hair of my Pater Familias Saevvs
(Patrick
>>Dunn) in months and months so this would not work for me.
>>
>>Does anyone know where he is?
>>
>
>You're about the fourth person I've heard ask this. I have his e-mail
and URL and I'll try to reach him.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia

I'm here! I'm here! I've just been too busy to do much but lurk
lately. Beowulf, you know.

Anyway, I haven't fallen off the face of the Earth, and I do check in
periodically with the college of pontifices. I'm also engaged in
writing the handbook of augury.

--M. Gladius Saevus

Subject:	NR Taxes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:45:25 -0500 (EST)

I like Dex's recommendation and it seems to meet the needs of NR, but
you should know that my recommendations have not been doing well
lately!!!!!

I hear very stridently the call for financial relief from the student
sector, and let me respond to that in this way. You are not the first
to go through privation in the cause of going to school. Most of us
have, we understand, but we made it and so will you, your Gods willing.
I do not see that anyone will be cast out of NR for their inabiliy or
unwillingness to pay taxes. Now I know that sounds bad, but if someoe
does not wish to pay a tax for personal or religious reasons, or cannot
because of financial constraints, then it will be hard to get the money
no matter what the circumstances. However, I do not believe that the
choice between a magazine subscription and Nova Roma is an adequate
reason for non-payment of taxes (my poor attitude again).

Building on Dexippus' idea, I further propose that if one does not pay
the taxes levied or "donate" an equivelent or larger sum to NR, then
they will not have the privelege to vote or stand for election (current
elected office holders grandfathered out--appointed offices at this
point are not being considered). I do not think that expulsion from
Onelist or from membershp in the NR should be under consideration as a
penalty, because of the strong religious base of NR, and those people
must, in my humble opinion, be considered on the basis of their beliefs.
One young lady has indicated that she is engaged in research for her
Gens, which may well be of value to NR, and I should think that some
proviso for a project such as that would be included for students and
might be acceptable to the NR Citizens. The establishment of a standing
Chairman of a Committee for let's say an Auction Committee to hammer out
the rules for conducting periodic auctions might be accepted in lieu of
taxes with the guarantee of at least one auction a year.

There is also the consideration of raising the Eagle assessments to at
least $12.00 per year to get the Eagle onto a paying basis, and there
are several other ideas in my "idea" folder (taken from this net) that
may well apply.

I will be willing to write a formal propsal embodying Dex's ideas and
the others mentioned here with your permission. The Proposal should
include Patricia Cassia's Goal List, and the results of the Strawman
Budget which is at this time being considered by the Magistates. We are
doing several things at once here, and we should sort it out rather than
send several proposals to the Senate at once. The Senate ad the Senior
Magistrates are struggling with some other actions, and for the present
they simply do not have the liesure to hammer out proposals. The
proposal, in my view, should not only address the problem, but should
also address obvious questons which will be asked by the Senate and the
reviewing Magistrates.

I have offered to do something similar before this, but never received a
mandate to continue. If you will reply yes or no to me, I will put this
before you in a more complete form / format, for your specific comments,
ideas and changes at a future date. meanwhile it would be a great
assistance if somene would collect the ideas of the active members of
onelist, to give us an idea of what kind of majority of feeling that we
have out there. Another thing that the pro-tax people should provide
their ideas about, is how the people of a foriegn country to the U.S.
will be able to pay their taxes if enacted. I have addressed this
already on the net, but no-one has replied. If you wish me to undertake
this task please let me know. I will undertake the task if I receive
word from 10 people, that you wish me to go ahead. Nothing will be done
until I receive your replies, and nothing will be sent to the Senate /
Senior Magistrates until a majority vote is established. You have my
word on that for the work that I propose to do.

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	?terfamilias Found! (was Re: Patrick Dunn)
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:07:42 -0600 (CST)

Salvete omnes...

All is well with the Marius clan; I wired our Materfamilias last night
immediately after publishing that APB for her on the List, and danged
if she didn't reply the very same evening! Schoolwork...profuse
apologies for not realizing how long she'd been out-of-touch...more to
follow. All that good tearful-reunion stuff!

To Consul Decius Iunius Palladius and Praetor Urbanis Lucius Cornelius
Sulla, Agrippina Maria Glauca sends her greetings. She may still be
reached at <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=029181253209074162050149203219129208071" >mbozzuto@--------</a>.

Ad astram per aspera...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:28:40 EST

Audens,

I vote you go ahead with a written proposal.

And I would suggest that non-US citizens pay a tax (if one is levied) equal to
their monetary system's conversion of U.S. $12.00. We can just use a flat
conversion rate instead of worrying about the present rate of conversion each
time a tax is due.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:49:29 -0500 (EST)

Thanks Dex. That's one. In regard to the foriegn payment of tax is the
act that an international cashiers check costs about $25.00 and exchange
in traveler's checks (at least here in the US) is not feasible because
most banks have a minimum issue of T.C.'s. That may not be so overseas,
but I don't know.

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Dues & bowling
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:50:32 -0600 (CST)

Flavia Claudia, Vestal et Senatrix, said:

>Now THIS is a great idea! Bowling for Denarii!
><snip>
>Wow! Maybe we can organize matches! Vestals against the Legios! Or
>maybe Pats vs. Plebs!
>
>This is WAY better than pudding wrestling.

No kidding! Nothing to polish off our armor afterwards!

Vestals vs. the Legions, eh? --Says Legio VI Victrix (all one of me):
Yer ON!!!

--Marius Fimbria (who HAS a sense of humor, really he does!)

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:04:40 -0600 (CST)

What to call the freebies...?

>>> >Humiliores, free.
>>
>>Accurate the title may be, but it also sounds slightly condescending.
>>How about Capite Censi?
>
>Well, that is just as derogatory, since the Capite Censi were the
>underclass in the Roman Republic.

Dunno about you guys, but if I were in that situation I'd *much* rather
be called 'he of humbler state' than 'Head Count', which is not only
derogatory but downright dismissive. (I say this even though my
illustrious ancestor brought great honor and glory to the Head Count by
recruiting among them for his successful wars in Africa [vs. Jugurtha]
and Gaul [vs. the Cimbri et Teutones].)

Just a thought...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:59:58 -0500

Salvete Marce Minuci et Patres Nostrae Rei Publicae



From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------(quoted belo--------- divider)

Since Quaestor Marcus Minucius Audens has stated that he is collecting
proposals to deliver to the Senate related to the issue of levying a poll
tax on citizens of Nova Roma, I am submitting this statement to you for your
consideration.

Proponents of levying taxes have compared Nova Roma to macronations, which
invariably have taxes. I do not dispute that this is a valid comparison,
but ask that you consider this: those macronations also have budgets; most
of those macronations provide for the defense of their citizenry and the
protection of physical borders, both of which are tremendously costly, and
very much inapplicable to our micronation.

Now, it may be that someday we shall require taxes, perhaps soon. But I
hope that you will develop first a budget that shows the necessity of
introducing a tax, and real numbers to support the amount and frequency of
tax payments to be required of citizens. I also hope that you will consider
other avenues of revenue generation, such as stamp and coin sales, auctions,
honorary titles for donors and other ideas discussed in the forum, ahead of
levying taxes.

I believe that levying a poll tax will have some effects not anticipated by
its proponents, and will not have other effects anticipated by its
proponents. I believe that the tax will depress recruitment of new citizens
(although less so if the tax is waived for one year as suggested by Q.
Fabius Maximus), and will create some things of which Nova Roma has none
thus far: resentment of the State on the part of taxpaying citizens, tax
evasion and the waste of tracking down and penalizing the evaders, and
ensuing growth of distrust between citizens and their magistrates. On the
other hand, I believe that even with a poll tax levied, achievement of Nova
Roma's goals, including those related to acquisition of land and
construction of meeting places, will depend on growth of the population and,
most importantly, enthusiastic support of that population. Neither of these
latter will grow as a result of a poll tax, but, on the contrary, both may
whither.

Vivant Senatus Populusque Novae Romae

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

-----------------quoted text below-----------------------

I hear very stridently the call for financial relief from the student
sector, and let me respond to that in this way. You are not the first
to go through privation in the cause of going to school. Most of us
have, we understand, but we made it and so will you, your Gods willing.
I do not see that anyone will be cast out of NR for their inabiliy or
unwillingness to pay taxes. Now I know that sounds bad, but if someoe
does not wish to pay a tax for personal or religious reasons, or cannot
because of financial constraints, then it will be hard to get the money
no matter what the circumstances. However, I do not believe that the
choice between a magazine subscription and Nova Roma is an adequate
reason for non-payment of taxes (my poor attitude again).

Building on Dexippus' idea, I further propose that if one does not pay
the taxes levied or "donate" an equivelent or larger sum to NR, then
they will not have the privelege to vote or stand for election (current
elected office holders grandfathered out--appointed offices at this
point are not being considered).

--deletion---

There is also the consideration of raising the Eagle assessments to at
least $12.00 per year to get the Eagle onto a paying basis, and there
are several other ideas in my "idea" folder (taken from this net) that
may well apply.

I will be willing to write a formal propsal embodying Dex's ideas and
the others mentioned here with your permission. The Proposal should
include Patricia Cassia's Goal List, and the results of the Strawman
Budget which is at this time being considered by the Magistates. We are
doing several things at once here, and we should sort it out rather than
send several proposals to the Senate at once. The Senate ad the Senior
Magistrates are struggling with some other actions, and for the present
they simply do not have the liesure to hammer out proposals. The
proposal, in my view, should not only address the problem, but should
also address obvious questons which will be asked by the Senate and the
reviewing Magistrates.

I have offered to do something similar before this, but never received a
mandate to continue. If you will reply yes or no to me, I will put this
before you in a more complete form / format, for your specific comments,
ideas and changes at a future date. meanwhile it would be a great
assistance if somene would collect the ideas of the active members of
onelist, to give us an idea of what kind of majority of feeling that we
have out there. Another thing that the pro-tax people should provide
their ideas about, is how the people of a foriegn country to the U.S.
will be able to pay their taxes if enacted. I have addressed this
already on the net, but no-one has replied. If you wish me to undertake
this task please let me know. I will undertake the task if I receive
word from 10 people, that you wish me to go ahead. Nothing will be done
until I receive your replies, and nothing will be sent to the Senate /
Senior Magistrates until a majority vote is established. You have my
word on that for the work that I propose to do.

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Subject:	Taxes and Titles
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:11:01 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites.

I have been impoverished at times. I was poor as an enlisted man, I was
poor as a college student, and I was unemployed through most of the
recession in the early 1990s. But never, at any of these times, would I
have been unable to scrape together the trifling sum of $12 over the course
of a year for some discretionary purpose. I could have gone without a
couple of pizzas, I could have foregone a couple of six-packs, or I could
have missed a couple of movies. In my experience, to be poor is to have
fewer and more limited choices, rather than to have no choices at all. If
some among us choose pizza or beer or movies over supporting Mater Roma, I
believe we can accurately assess where their priorities lie. Frankly, the
want of $12 is just not a credible plea, and those who make it should
neither demand nor expect the full privileges of citizenship. For even as a
poor man, I paid taxes. For even as a poor man, I did not ask for food
stamps or the dole of corn. I know that one can be destitute of money, yet
not of honor.

At the same time, Quirites, we must look with a jaundiced eye at any scheme
of selling honors for money. Is our Republic truly to be polluted by such
titles as Perfectissimus, Nobilissimus, Clarissimus, and Spectabiles? This
profusion of epithets of pride and flattery would scarcely have been
understood by Marcus Tullius, and Augustus would have rejected them with
indignation. How long, before we are expected to bow and grovel at the feet
of the holders of such titles? For such sums of money buy more than titles;
they buy access to the halls of power. Is a senator or a magistrate more
apt to lend his ear to the $12 voice, or to the $100, $500, or $1000 voice?
The answer to that is obvious. History is replete with examples of
honorable men who were corrupted by money and power. I beg you, Quirites,
do not crucify our Republic on a cross of gold!

Let every citizen be expected to pay his just and allotted sum in support of
the Republic, no more and no less. Those citizens who wish to bestow any
additional largess should do so without the expectation of titles of
flattery; the honest gratitude of the Senate and People should be
sufficient. Let us be a Republic of equals, who equally share the burden of
supporting the ideals of Nova Roma.

May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

Valete.

M. Mala Gangalius

-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:11:44 -0500 (EST)

I thank you very much for your submitted ideas. They will be most
useful in telling both sides of the story.

Does your most kind response indicate a "Go Ahead" on your part for my
offered write-up??

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Taxes and Titles
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:16:52 -0500 (EST)

I thank you for your very succinct discourse on taxes. It will help
tremendusly in telling both side of the story. Does this mean that you
approve my going ahead with this proposal project???

Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	[Fwd: Ancient History Newsletter]
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:25:03 -0800

Here is another ancient Resource, :)

"ancienthistory.guide" wrote:

> =========================================================
> A N C I E N T * H I S T O R Y * N E W S L E T T E R
>
> N.S. Gill
> Ancient History Guide at The Mining Co.
> February 16, 1999
> Vol. III Issue #7
>
> =========================================================
>
> THIS WEEK'S FEATURE: Shakespeare's Caesar
> Written over 400 years ago, the play remains popular for many reasons.
>
> (Go to the
> Ancient/Classical History Homepage at
> <a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com</a> to read this week's feature.)
>
> =========================================================
>
> SITE UPDATE (Net Links)
> --------------------------------
>
> CELTS
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub13.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub13.htm</a>>
>
> Ethnic Identity
>
> --------------------------------
>
> GREECE: ART/ARCHAEOLOGY/ARCHITECTURE
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub26.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub26.htm</a>>
>
> South Slope of the Acropolis
> Around the City of Athens
>
> --------------------------------
>
> HISTORICAL RECREATION
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub20.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub20.htm</a>>
>
> Early period Swords
>
> --------------------------------
>
> LANGUAGE
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msublanguage.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msublanguage.htm</a>>
>
> Gaelic Language
> Ogham, Ancient Alphabet
> History of Writing - downloadable archaic fonts
>
> --------------------------------
>
> NEAR EAST
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub6.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub6.htm</a>>
>
> Sumeria 1700 BC: Historical Background
>
> --------------------------------
>
> TABLOIDS
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub31.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msub31.htm</a>>
>
> New section on:
> The Afrocentrism controversy
>
> --------------------------------
>
> WOMEN'S BIO
> <<a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msubbiofem.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/msubbiofem.htm</a>>
>
> Diotima
>
> --------------------------------
>
> If you know of a link I should include, please send it to me.
>
> =========================================================
>
> LINKING TO MY SITE
>
> If you would like to link to my site graphically, please select
> one of these four banners (with instructions):
> <a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/library/bllink.htm" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/library/bllink.htm</a>
> Many thanks!
>
> =========================================================
>
> CURA UT VALEAS
>
> N.S. Gill
> Ancient/Classical History Guide at The Mining Co
> <a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com</a>
> <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=243071219009056116050199186219249063039158139102017099009143116067142076083" >ancienthistory.guide@--------</a>
>
> =========================================================
>
> This Newsletter is copyrighted 1999 by N.S. Gill and The Mining Co. Feel
> free to distribute this Newsletter in its entirety to anyone who may be
> interested.
> ISSN: 1521-9232
>
> **********************************
> N.S. Gill
> Ancient/Classical History Guide
> <a href="http://ancienthistory.miningco.com" target="_top" >http://ancienthistory.miningco.com</a>
> This week's feature: Ovid's battle secrets
>
> ---------------------------------
> *About This Newsletter*
>
> To add a new email address or remove your email address from
> this newsletter, visit:
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Subject:	Re: Patrick Dunn
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:27:24 -0600 (CST)

On 02/16/99 08:42:08 you wrote:
>
>>You're about the fourth person I've heard ask this. I have his e-mail
>and URL and I'll try to reach him.
>>
>>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>I'm here! I'm here! I've just been too busy to do much but lurk
>lately. Beowulf, you know.
>
>Anyway, I haven't fallen off the face of the Earth, and I do check in
>periodically with the college of pontifices. I'm also engaged in
>writing the handbook of augury.
>
>--M. Gladius Saevus
>
It's....it's......ALIIIIIIVE!!!!!!

Glad to see ya, guy.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:00:08 -0500

Salvete Lucia Maria et alii



>From: <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
>
>What to call the freebies...?
>
One approach may be not to have a title for those who contribute nothing.
>
>Dunno about you guys, but if I were in that situation I'd *much* rather
>be called 'he of humbler state' than 'Head Count', which is not only
>derogatory but downright dismissive. (I say this even though my
>illustrious ancestor brought great honor and glory to the Head Count by
>recruiting among them for his successful wars in Africa [vs. Jugurtha]
>and Gaul [vs. the Cimbri et Teutones].)

Yeah, I guess "Capite Censi" became less of a dirty word after that. It
still doesn't sound too nice though.
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Taxes and Titles
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:09:52 -0500

Salvete Gangalii et alii



>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Quirites.
>
--stories of poverty deleted---
>
>At the same time, Quirites, we must look with a jaundiced eye at any scheme
>of selling honors for money. Is our Republic truly to be polluted by such
>titles as Perfectissimus, Nobilissimus, Clarissimus, and Spectabiles? This
>profusion of epithets of pride and flattery would scarcely have been
>understood by Marcus Tullius

Yeah, he was pretty stuck up, rigid and uptight. Antonius might have done
the world a big favor in his treatement of Marcus Tullius...

and Augustus would have rejected them with

Ha ha ha. You object to epithets, and yet you hold up "Augustus" as a
model! Ah yes, he was a real champion of modesty. Check out his res gestae
and get back to us.

>indignation. How long, before we are expected to bow and grovel at the
feet
>of the holders of such titles?

A title is a title and nothing more than that. If anyone expects me to
start grovelling, for any reason, I advise them against holding their breath
during their wait.

For such sums of money buy more than titles;
>they buy access to the halls of power. Is a senator or a magistrate more
>apt to lend his ear to the $12 voice, or to the $100, $500, or $1000 voice?

That is up to the consciences of the senators, magistrates and donors -- and
up to your voting privileges and how you exercise them.

>The answer to that is obvious. History is replete with examples of
>honorable men who were corrupted by money and power. I beg you, Quirites,
>do not crucify our Republic on a cross of gold!

Aren't you a strident proponent of taxation? I'd say that you're already
nailing us up there.
>
>Let every citizen be expected to pay his just and allotted sum in support
of
>the Republic, no more and no less. Those citizens who wish to bestow any
>additional largess should do so without the expectation of titles of
>flattery; the honest gratitude of the Senate and People should be
>sufficient. Let us be a Republic of equals, who equally share the burden
of
>supporting the ideals of Nova Roma.

And let us foremost of all be a Republic of those who act, rather than of
those who worry about what their neighbor is or is not doing.
>
>May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
>
>Valete.
>
>M. Mala Gangalius
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	I did not mean that
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:21:14 -0500

Salvete Omnes

A couple of minutes ago, I replied to Gangaliorum post on taxes. In that
post, I said something fairly nasty about Marcus Tullius Cicero. I
apologize for that statement, which was excessive and came out of me in the
heat of this taxation debate.

Cicero might not have been the perfect patriot that he is sometimes
depicted, but I believe that he did serve Rome nobly, has provided us with
vast material for study and insight, and certainly deserves better than to
be maligned by me.

I apologize to him and all of you.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Taxes and Titles
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:33:36 -0800 (PST)

At 02:16 PM 2/16/99 -0500, James Mathews wrote:
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>I thank you for your very succinct discourse on taxes. It will help
>tremendusly in telling both side of the story. Does this mean that you
>approve my going ahead with this proposal project???
>
>Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>

Salve Audens.

You have my support.

M. Mala Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>

Subject:	The Check is in the Mail
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:04:47 -0800

Salve, Cassia!

I mailed my check to you this morning from downtown, where the Mail service is
better. You might have it as early as Thursday. It certainly be there by
Friday. Please email me when you have it. I don't trust the USPS, at least this
end of it.

Vale.
Caius Aelius Ericius.

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:35:07 -0800

My opinion is No Taxes.

C. Aelius Ericius.

Subject:	Re: NR Taxes
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:14:15 -0600 (CST)

On 02/16/99 17:35:07 you wrote:
>
>From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
>My opinion is No Taxes.
>
>C. Aelius Ericius.

I halfway agree with Eri.
No Taxes until we have a final budget.

After that, let the debates continue unrestrained.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Dues Structure
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:32:33 -0600

Avete Quirites!

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote: (surgery comitted) Wh--------er we w--------to do, we need
money! It's either that or pick up the swords and go into battle! Venator?
Audens? : )

Dex, right now I have a job where I can use my education and experience, legally.
Though, I know a few tricks involving biographical leverage.....

Valete - Venator

Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:41:05 -0600

Salvete Omnes;

I find myself in agreement with the Honorable Dexippus's proposal. It is an
elaboration of an idea I was mulling over. Audens, I'll ride along with this one
for purposes of the discussion and idea formulation.

Valete - Venator

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> No...No..No...just that I don't understand why there is pushback on a
> mandatory tax/dues structure of a measely $12.00 a year but yet suggestions
> for donations of $20 or more.
>
> So...with that...here is my recommendation to be included on the official
> record (per Audens request) and then I am leaving this discussion as it (like
> the others before it) have become tiresome.
>
> I recommend a tax of U.S. $12.00 per calendar year be levied on all Nova Roman
> citizens beginning one year after their citizenship approval by the Censors.
> The Gens will not be taxed nor be required to collect tax from their members
> and forward to the treasury. Each citizen will be responsible for his/her own
> tax payment directly to the NR treasury. Each Pater/Materfamilias can
> encourage his/her gens members to pay the tax on time and in full but will not
> be punished or fined if a gens member fails to do so.
>
> Failure to pay the tax will result in a denial of certain priveleges that
> should be voted on by the senate (not by the populace..afterall, this is why
> we have elected officials). For instance...perhaps removal from the onelist
> board for the first month a tax is late. Then perhaps a denial in voting
> priveleges after 2 months of non-paid tax. Then finally removal of
> citizenship after 3 months of non-paid tax. (these are just suggestions...I'm
> sure the Senate and Censors can think of appropriate disciplinary actions in
> each case). This will incent citizens to pay their tax on time and in full.
>
> Furthermore, I propose that if an individual makes a voluntary donation equal
> to or greater than the mandatory yearly tax, he/she be pardoned from paying
> the tax for that year (but only that year...for instance, if someone makes a
> donation of $24 dollars, that does not excuse him or her from paying next
> year's $12 tax). If an individual makes a donation after that year's tax due
> date, the donation pardon will carry into the following year. The added bonus
> (and incentive) is that a voluntary donation will be tax deductible (pending
> Cassius' submission of appropriate papers to the government) but the mandatory
> tax will not be.
>
> I believe this is a fair compromise and will help ease both tention and budget
> concerns here in Nova Roma.
>
> With this said...I'm done (of course though I will respond to any replies to
> this suggestion...but this is my official proposal).
>
> --Dexippus