Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:38:36 GMT

Salve Dexippius,

As I said in my letter, I didn't have a computer until my roommate moved
in two weeks ago, until then I used the free access at the library, and
I have a free internet account. I've never had to pay for one because a
friend who has his own ISP gives me an account for free. So that removes
that argument.

I'm not some bum. I work. I work alot, but I also have alot of medical
bills, and my job, like I said is feast or famine. It depends on whether
or not we have clients to do work for since where I work we are a
subcontractor for other people. I work at this place because I need the
flexibilty in my schedule to accomodate my school work, taking care of
my grandmother, and my own health. Right now I am behind on everything
except the water bill and my house payment because we had a 6 week work
slowdown. I was still digging myself out of a hole caused by being
downsized at my old job and being out of work for three months
thereafter when that work slowdown hit. So now I'm even farther in the
hole. Feels real good. Feels even better knowing that I have to walk
real careful for the next three months until I have health insurance
again since I can't afford the meds that keep my MS under control. But
I'm tired of feeling defensive about this. I have other things to worry
about. So if a dues structure is set and I can't afford it, I'll just
leave. No hard feelings, no big deal, I just know my economic situation
alot better than anyone else here does.

I got into NovaRoma when I was working my old job. I had paid for net
access as part of the job, and got paid nicely. It was cool that
membership was free, but I sent in my money for the Eagle happily. I
joined because I've always loved Roman culture. I studied the classics
in school, both high school and college. I'm also a Pagan, and the Pagan
in me loved the idea of recreating Roman religion and making it a
living, breathing part of the modern world. Times change.
My life and economic situation changed alot. Until I dig myself out of
the hole I'm in, I won't feel very comfortable with paying dues for
soemthing that, no matter how much it means to me, is still a past time
and a luxury. I've had to give up alot. All the causes I supported, I
can't. If it weren't for email, I wouldn't keep in touch with friends
that live a long-distance call away. I don't even get the newspaper
anymore.

Anyways, I'm blithering.

Vale,

L. Iunia Cypria


Subject:	Re: Governor titles revisited... Please don't kill me... =)
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:25:58 -0800 (PST)

---Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> wrote:

> 2) What was a 'Consularis Provinciae'?
> 3) What were the late Roman titles for governors?

Salve!
Without having looked into this formally, I _can_ say off the top
of my head that 'Consularis Provinciae' means 'of the consular
province'. In other words, it's not really a title at all, but states
that the governor in question was running a province which was
administered by consuls, as opposed to by the emperor.
Late Roman governors eventually came to be called 'Gubernatores'
(literally, 'helmsmen'), although I don't know when this happened, or
whether it was a gradual transition or an overnight change. I would
add, though, that whilst it's interesting to know that, I don't think
'Gubernator' is really an appropriate title for Nova Roman provincial
governors, as it is a _very_ late word, relating to a society whch had
become very different to the Republican one we are trying to emulate.
I think it's also acquired some slightly nasty overtones in modern
usage, which we would probably want to avoid.
Vale,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************


Subject:	Re: Governor titles revisited... Please don't kill me... =)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:45:58 -0000

Salvete!

Thanks Claudia. In fact I've already found the meaning. It comes after the
reforms of Diocletian:

- The Empire was divided into Praefecturas, governed by a Praefectus
Praetorio. There were 4.
- Each Praefectura was divided into Dioceses, each governed by a Vicarius
(e.g. Vicarius Hispaniarum).
- Each Diocese was divided into Provincias, each governed by a Consularis,
Proconsularis, Corrector or Praeses (what was the difference? Someone can
help?). E.g. Consularis Lusitaniae.
- Each Provincial Governor was assisted by one or more Duces (singular Dux),
who commanded the army, thus relieving the Governor of that task.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae Provinciae


Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:53:17 EST

In a message dated 2/18/99 9:13:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<<
Hear her! Hear her!

Ericius. >>

Read my reply.

Again...$12.00...c'mon folks! I can't believe we are fighting over $12.00!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:52:16 EST

Hello Cypria,

I can certainly understand your hardship. And my heart and feelings go out to
you.

However, we can not allow the disadvantages of one citizen to make policy for
the rest of Nova Roma. I don't think a tax/dues structure of $12.00 a year is
asking too much. It comes out to $1.00 a month. As someone posted earlier,
if it means foregoing a slice of pizza each month, then so be it.

I don't mean to sound harsh or unfeeling. (I know some people on this list
think I'm a Nazi-Fascist-Right Wing-Extremist-Fundamentalist who just happens
to be gay... yeah, alright...whatever!) But I'm not. In fact, just the
opposite. I would hate to see you or anyone have to leave Nova Roma if a
tax/dues structure in place because of an inability to pay, but we must begin
thinking of the greater good and the greater whole.

Much light and happiness to you.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Governor titles revisited... Please don't kill me... =)
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:57:13 -0500

Salvete Claudia Aprica et alii

>From: Claudia Aprica <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=053075020185175031223102001140243115239144190179017171173211025056109087020150170193201077179247241163050" >quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------</a>
>
>---Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> wrote:
>
>> 2) What was a 'Consularis Provinciae'?
>> 3) What were the late Roman titles for governors?
>
To which Claudia Aprica answered:

> Without having looked into this formally, I _can_ say off the top
>of my head that 'Consularis Provinciae' means 'of the consular
>province'. In other words, it's not really a title at all, but states
>that the governor in question was running a province which was
>administered by consuls, as opposed to by the emperor.

To which I add:

Neither have I researched this, but could not the word "Consularis" have
been used substantively to refer to the official, rather than adjectivally
to refer to the province? Is it not true that, throughout imperial times,
the title "Consul" was retained? It seems to me that, before becoming
Basileus Autocrator or whatever his "official" title was, Justinian had
served as "Consul" under Justin. Supposing that this were true, an imperial
fancy lad who had been appointed "Consul" by a sitting Emperor, having been
sent out to govern a province, might have been called "Consularis".

Does this make sense to anyone else? Callidus, Fabius, Fimbria?

> Late Roman governors eventually came to be called 'Gubernatores'
>add, though, that whilst it's interesting to know that, I don't think
>'Gubernator' is really an appropriate title for Nova Roman provincial
>governors, as it is a _very_ late word, relating to a society whch had
>become very different to the Republican one we are trying to emulate.

I agree.

> Vale,
> Aprica.
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Nova Roma Birthday
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:30:48 -0800

ante diem XI Kalendas Martis
11 days before the Kalends of March
the Kalends of March, Nova Roma's Birthday

The ex-Praetor of Brittania is hosting a party in the honor of...

Are there any other celebrations going on?

How about a web gathering for us hermits and onlys?

Valete.
Ericius


Subject:	Re: Governor titles revisited... Please don't kill me... =)
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:49:43 -0600 (CST)

Salvete omnes...

Claudia Aprica said:
>...whilst it's interesting to know that, I don't think
>'Gubernator' is really an appropriate title for Nova Roman provincial
>governors, as it is a _very_ late word, relating to a society whch had
>become very different to the Republican one we are trying to emulate.

...to which Marius Fimbria replies:

A gentle reminder...our esteemed Propraetor Lusitaniae is not only a
Nova Roman provincial something-or-other who wonders what to call
himself from time to time >({|;-) , but also (like many of us) a
Roman enthusiast extraordinaire engaged in an independent research
project. IIRC, this request was made in the context of some work he is
doing for the Lusitania Web site: a Mausoleum page listing all the
known Roman governors of his Province, whatever their title or era.

I believe he would have wound up doing this research whether he was a
Citizen or not...us Ro-maniacs are like that, y'know. I myself have a
few term papers lying about (cleverly disguised as stories), stuff I
wrote years ago which therefore has no Nova Roman context whatsoever.
No doubt Quintus Fabius, one of our star academics, could say the same.
The homework we do for fun...!!

Vos saluto...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> M�ria Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Governor titles revisited... Please don't kill me... =)
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:02:04 EST

In a message dated 99-02-19 10:49:59 EST, Marius Fimbria writes:

<<
I believe he would have wound up doing this research whether he was a
Citizen or not...us Ro-maniacs are like that, y'know. I myself have a
few term papers lying about (cleverly disguised as stories), stuff I
wrote years ago which therefore has no Nova Roman context whatsoever.
No doubt Quintus Fabius, one of our star academics, could say the same.
The homework we do for fun...!!
>>

Salvete,

I like the "Ro-maniacs" term! It's a pretty accurate description of the
passion for ancient Roman stuff. Did you come up with that one, Marius?

Also, there is always the chance that those "stories" of yours would make good
reading in the Eagle. If you think that might be the case, please send one to
the main Nova Roma address in Wells, ME. Who knows... your audience might just
be waiting out there for you! ;)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:08:19 EST

Salvete omnes,

Don't worry too much about dues, Cypria. Even if we had to bring them in there
would surely be some form of "scholarship" system for those that absolutely
couldn't pay. Nobody will ever have to leave Nova Roma due to financial
harship while I'm around, anyway! ;)

Besides, before all the dues stuff gets hassled out, there's always the
possibility that our Senate will let yours truly do some funding through
merchandise. Now that I'm back online, and have a scanner up and running I'll
be able to get Nova Roma postage stamps up for sale. We're also VERY close on
the coin project! (There'll be more info on that very soon as well...)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Censor

In a message dated 99-02-19 09:54:25 EST, Dexippus writes:

Hello Cypria,

I can certainly understand your hardship. And my heart and feelings go out
to
you.

However, we can not allow the disadvantages of one citizen to make policy for
the rest of Nova Roma. I don't think a tax/dues structure of $12.00 a year
is
asking too much. It comes out to $1.00 a month. As someone posted earlier,
if it means foregoing a slice of pizza each month, then so be it.

I don't mean to sound harsh or unfeeling. (I know some people on this list
think I'm a Nazi-Fascist-Right Wing-Extremist-Fundamentalist who just happens
to be gay... yeah, alright...whatever!) But I'm not. In fact, just the
opposite. I would hate to see you or anyone have to leave Nova Roma if a
tax/dues structure in place because of an inability to pay, but we must begin
thinking of the greater good and the greater whole.

Much light and happiness to you.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Whew!!! I'm baaaaack......
From:	"Michael Cessna" clinkerbuilt@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:55:07 PST

Savlete, omnes!!!!

After a very unplanned (and undesired) hyatis[sp?], I have returned
home, to Roma Mater!!!!!

Vale, all.....

Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus


Subject:	Re: Whew!!! I'm baaaaack......
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:13:40 EST

In a message dated 99-02-19 12:55:22 EST, Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus
(<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=219128020185221198218171228026247222136058139046209" >clinkerbuilt@--------</a>) writes:

> Savlete, omnes!!!!

> After a very unplanned (and undesired) hyatis[sp?], I have returned
home, to Roma Mater!!!!! >>

Welcome back, Gnaeus! I know the feeling... with work being busy, having to
move, AND having my computer go down, I've been away from Nova Roma for more
than a month! I've missed everybody! (But oy, the piled up correspondence...)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: Speech at forum II
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:31:49 GMT

Salve Dexippius,

I understand this. It was not your comments that bothered me. I totally
understand the need to contribute to Nova Roma, and when I can, I will
gladly, but some of the letters that made me feel ashamed that I
couldn't, really set me off. It reminds me too much of the crap I deal
with day to day. Personally, I don't eat out, it's a waste of money.
Last time I went out to eat, a friend took me out when he came for a
visit. So the slice of pizza comment doesn't do alot for me. If I could
afford to buy pizza, I'd have no problem sending money to Nova Roma.

Vale,

L. Iunia Cypria


Subject:	OT (like RE-ally) but Fun
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:40:24 -0800

let us just say this is in honor of Nova Roma's birthday

this is the link I lifted this jewel from [particular interest to gamers (but of
course, you Already Knew about it!-right.) :]
<a href="ohttp://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/022xena.html" target="_top" >ohttp://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/022xena.html</a>

*******************
The Buff Barbarian Song
a modern parody of Gilbert and Sullivan's
Major-General's Song

by Kevin Wald

[We join our operetta already in progress. The infamous Pirates of Pergamum have
just seized a bevy of
beautiful Mytilenean maidens, and are attempting to carry them off for
matrimonial purposes. Gabrielle
intervenes, with a recitative (well, it's better than a pan flute solo):]

Gabrielle: Hold, scoundrels! Ere ye practice acts of villainy
Upon the peaceful and agrarian,
Just bear in mind, these maidens of My-TIL-ene[1]
Are guarded by a buff barbarian!

Pirates: We'd better all rethink our cunning plan;
They're guarded by a buff barbarian.

Maidens: Yes, yes, she is a buff barbarian.

[Xena leaps in from the wings, with a tremendous war cry, does a mid-air
somersault, and lands on her
feet on the Pirate King's chest.]

Xena: Yes, yes, I am a buff barbarian! [The orchestra starts up.]

I am the very model of a heroine barbarian;
Through Herculean efforts, I've become humanitarian.
I ride throughout the hinterland -- at least that's what they call it in
Those sissy towns like Athens (I, myself, am Amphipolitan).

I travel with a poet who is perky and parthenian[2]
And scribbles her hexameters in Linear Mycenian[3]
(And many have attempted, by a host of methods mystical,
To tell if our relationship's sororal or sapphistical).

Chorus: To tell if their relationship's sororal or sapphistical!
To tell if their relationship's sororal or sapphistical!
To tell if their relationship's sororal or sapphisti-phistical!

Xena: My armory is brazen, but my weapons are ironical;
My sword is rather phallic, but my chakram's rather yonical[4]
(To find out what that means, you'll have to study Indo-Aryan[5]).
I am the very model of a heroine barbarian!

Chorus: To find out what that means, we'll have to study Indo-Aryan --
She is the very model of a heroine barbarian!

Xena: I wake up every morning, ere the dawn is rhododactylous[6]
(Who needs to wait for daylight? I just work by sensus tactilis [7].)
And ride into the sunrise to protect some local villagers


Subject:	Re: OT (like RE-ally) but Fun
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:00:21 EST

In a message dated 2/19/99 4:41:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< This is the link I lifted this jewel from [particular interest to gamers
(but of
course, you Already Knew about it!-right.) :]
<a href="ohttp://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/022xena.html" target="_top" >ohttp://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/022xena.html</a> >>

ROTFLMAO!
We were just talking about this at my American Civil War Roundtable. (I know,
but we tend to digress a lot.) A Linear B scholar was there to learn about
Atlanta, when we found this out, the topic surged off the Atlanta campaign and
onto (or is that into) Xena. He had many amusing insights. And he was quite
witty. He speculated that they advertised for writers costume and production
designers like so:
In the New Zealand Daily Variety:
Wanted Production and costumers designers for local production set in 1200 BC
Greece. Extensive knowledge in Classical and Hellenistic Greek designs, are a
must. We know that is not accurate for 1200 BC, but we don't care. If you
like working with tomatoes, that's a plus.

Wanted: Writers for local production set in 1200 BC Greece. Knowledge needed
in Classical mythology and American slang. On second thought, just know
American slang.

QFM