| Subject: |
Re: Mead Manual |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:01:58 -0600 (CST) |
|
Wow- this sounds really impressive. I didn't realize you had that
much info in the booklet.
Also sounds like a neat gift idea too.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Roman Crest |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:28:18 -0600 |
|
Avete Omnes
Anyone be of any help to this person? (And thereby enlighten me?)
Valete - Venator
> Subject: Roman Crest
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194233014237078233249201139248166208071048" >romans753@--------</a>
> Date: 1999/02/20
> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
> Greetings,
>
> I would be grateful for any information concerning how to
> construct a "Roman/Greek" horsehair crest. Things like: Where to
> purchase materials, how to dye the horsehair etc.
>
> Thank you in advance
> M.L.G
|
| Subject: |
Pictures from the J.Paul Getty Museum |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:11:10 -0800 |
|
Salvete Omnes
I have located some photographs from a trip I took to the J.Paul Getty
Museum. I am in process of scanning them in. And I thought they would
be good to add to the NR Website. I have the following photograms
available:
Bust of Nerva
Bust of Diocletiean
Bust of Caligula
Bust of Augustus
A Pic to a wall painting that was a replica from Pompeii
A bas Relief (?) of a Greek Ceremony made from Marble.
Etruscan Sarcophagus
Replica of a Greek Fountain made from Mosaics
A Detail of the Floor in a layerd Mosaic design.
A Different detail of a floor mosaic
A pic of the Roof of the Villa, notic given on the 3-d Flower design in
detail
A picture of the Inside of the J.Paul Getty Museum Illustrating pillars
and wall paintings
2nd floor view of the Entereance of the Museum
Pic of Front of the Villa (museum)
Pic of teh Garden of the Courtyard.
Pic of Columnade in front of the Villa
Pic of Greek Drinking Vessels.
A really good pic of a Greek Drinking Vase
A Roman copy of a Greek statue of a woman (maybe Goddes)?
A Greek Bronze Statute of a boy between 6th and 3rd Century BC.
Some pics on Roman Gardens...hightling such plants as Larkspur and
others.
Some pics of Solitary Columns...
Pics of Amphorae
Pics of Jewerly
And a Pic of Marcus Aurelius
I would be happy to forward these to the NR website or to any
individual....Just let me know what you would like! :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanis
|
| Subject: |
Re: Chess |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:20:24 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/20/99 7:32:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:
<< But someone out there has at least tried to resurrect a Roman game. >>
I have ancient game "knuckle bones" which Romans played. People interested,
can e-mail me for the rules. You have to supply your own bones though.
QFM
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=061044104089235135169082190036" >sfp55@--------</--------;
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:18:42 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
:
:<< So, you're all for state coercion in Nova Roma. Well, I'm not, and I
bet
: that I am far from being alone in that respect. I did not become a
citizen
: here to pay taxes, but to share my admiration for Rome and learn from
others
: with somewhat similar interests. >>
:
:Merullus...lighten up...get yourself a good stiff drink like I suggested
and
:stop making those who disagree with you seem like the Devil with a Blue
Dress
:On!
I doubt that my posts are any graver than some others expressing opposing
views. And if I had a drink every time you suggested that I do, my liver
would be shot by now.
:If you joined only to share your admiration for Rome then you joined a
club.
As you know, I do not take my citizenship lightly. If I viewed Nova Roma as
a club, I might actually have less problem with some sort of dues. But, it
is not a club, but a micronation, and so we are not talking about dues but
taxes.
:Most of us here joined up as a citizen to accomplish something
larger..doing
:so is going to cost some buck.
:
:and
:
:<>
:
:I say why should it be only a select few that carry the financial burden of
:Nova Roma? Why should we be made to feel compelled to by books only so a
:small portion goes to the treasury? What's needed is a system where
everyone
:contributes equally on a foundation and then the other forms of income
become
:incremental and a bonus.
Noone is compelling anyone to buy books, of course. Rather, you are trying
to compel everyone to pay a poll tax. Don't want any books? Send in a
check and drop it.
:
:Again...12 freakin' dollars? All this talk over $12.00! CALGON TAKE ME
AWAY!
:
The $12 figure is your proposal. For some of us that may be a small sum,
for others behind in their bills, not so small. And, once you set the
precedent of levying a tax, who is to say that others won't rapidly be
introduced?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
--Dexippus
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Explore a new interest; start a new hobby. Go to <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
:
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:41:39 -0500 |
|
Salvete Gaie Druse et alii
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
Again, what on earth is the big deal about 12 dollars.
The figure of $12, again, is a small sum for some of us, bot not necessarily
for others behind in bills. And, again, once the precedent of levying a
poll tax has been set, it'll be easier to levy more, resulting in a lot of
people jumping ship, and very few coming aboard. It will not help us to
achieve anything.
GDD-It's so
simple- for one that can't afford it write a note or e-mail to the
appropriate magistrate with one simple statement " please waive my
yearly $12.00 payment"---- DONE!- no questions asked and private at
that. That's all it should be. Will anyone take advantage of that?---
Maybe but big deal.
GMM-For one thing, a tax system with such a no-questions-asked waiver is not
much different from what we already have in place -- an open request from NR
magistrates to send money to the treasury on a voluntary basis. The biggest
difference? Voluntary contributions are just that - voluntary, not coerced,
an expression of civic virtue if you will. Do you want to force people into
deciding whether they can be citizens on the basis of their cash flow? If
so, please explain why. And if someone cannot afford to pay a tax, do you
really think that they'll want to make that known to even a single
magistrate? Come on, people, let's stop worrying about the Joneses and get
back to basics.
GDD-For most of us if we can afford it we'll send it
otherwise a proper message should be written with the previous
statement. How hard is this really? No need to penalize people and make
people feel inadequate for all their peers. No need for disciplinary
measures. We are just looking for a way to raise some capital, not
exclude anyone at anything for any reason. Is everyone OK with this.
GMM-No, not everyone. I do not doubt the legitimacy of your motives, but
the approach is one of coercion; and really, without a budget in place to
tell us exactly where we are financially and what funds raised will do, the
tax proposals are very premature.
GDD- How about foreign currency issues too and conversion rates. THe
Euro-dollar? Keeping money raised in Europe in Europe for developement?
-- and in Australia and elsewhere. Opinions?
GMM-It sounds like multiple little cans of worms that the Senate and
magistrates do not need to open at this stage.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out our new web site! <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:01:31 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Equiti et alii
:From: "Lucius" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
:
:Salvete Quirites
:
:>So, you're all for state coercion in Nova Roma.
:
:LEC: Any law will have to be backed up by some form of penalty or it is
:usless.
That is very true, and I am glad that you recognize it.
:
:>2. Everyone who has become a citizen thus far has become a citizen of a
:>Republic without taxes and state coercion.
:>
:LEC; So we should maintain the status quo with the burden of maintaining
:NovaRoma on the shoulders of a few?
Not quite. Let me clarify my position:
1. Senate prepares a budget,
2. Magistrates are reimbursed from the treasury for any of their own
expenses,
3. Projects that are not paying for themselves, like the Eagle, get their
prices increased to the point where they are self-sustaining,
4. If 1-3 are implemented, and the treasury is still shrinking, meaningful
debate on taxes begins.
:
:>The rules of the game will change as the Republic
:>:evolves, and changes may come along which are not to the liking of some.
:>:This is in the nature of things, and I see no great evil in it. No one's
:>:human rights will be trampled, for there are no barriers to seeking
:>:residence in a micronation more to one's liking.
:>
:>No great evil, certainly. Not much good either though. I wonder, will
you
:>ever drop this? Or will you only be satisfied when people start "seeking
:>residence in micronations more to their liking"?
:
:LEC; Really, there is no reason to make this personal.
I agree. Civis Gangalius said "for there are no barriers to seeking
residence in a micronation more to one's liking", to which I replied "Or
will you only be satisfied when people start "seeking
residence in micronations more to their liking"?" I fail to see the
personal nature of the exchange.
:>:
:>:The passion of her protestations has convinced me of Cypria's sincerity.
:>:Having come to the aforementioned conclusion, and having publicly abused
:>her
:>:in the course of arriving at that conclusion, I would consider it not
only
:>a
:>:civic duty but also a personal obligation to pay Cypria's tax when the
:time
:>:comes.
:>
:>That's nice. I assume that you have talked this over with her...of
course,
:>it's none of my business...except that you are posting all this to the
:>forum, which is everyone's business. I really do not want to know whose
:>taxes you or anyone else is paying, nor can I imagine how anyone would
want
:>it made public that their taxes were being covered by some benefactor.
:>
:LEC; Good Grief, I think I will take the offer of M. Mala Gangalius in the
:spirt in which it it offered.
But, Luci Equiti, the offer was not made to you personally, but to the forum
at large.
:>I say again, if any of us can afford it and feels concern for Nova Roma's
:>financial welfare, nothing stops any of us from sending in donations to
the
:>Maine address on the website. All of us who are able and willing can also
:>provide financial support by buying books and statuary from the Macellum
:and
:>jewelry from Pythia. All of these things work and are already in place.
:
:
:LEC; No, they do not work or we would not be having this discussion. As far
:as I know there are still T-shirts left from last years Roman Days, which
:are fine T-shirts BTW.
If they do not work, it means that NR is not receiving its percentage of
Macellum sales. Is that the case? Should we not use the Macellum until the
bugs are ironed out?
: I myself am in favor of some form of tax/poll tax. If you have the
:right to vote on how the money is spent then you should have contributed
:some, no?
Do you mean to tell me that every citizen will be able to vote directly on
the budget? I doubt that that is a practical approach, and, if we were to
do so, I would wonder, why bother having a Senate?
: I must agree with Dexippus et alii, $5-$10-$12 per annus, is that so
:much?
:Just a spur of the moment idea...How about $5 poll tax and $10 you get a
:year of the Eagle too? Or just the Eagle for $7?
Is $7 enough to cover the Eagle's costs? I do not think so. What you are
proposing sounds like depletion of the treasury, not increasing it.
: I am not in favor of a tax on citizenship though. This is not a either
:or situation unless there are those who are unwilling to compromise. We are
:all citizens and have the right to express our opinion here in the forum in
:a civilized way. Let us refrain from ad hominum expressions and stay with
:the issues please.
That's "ad hominem".
:
:Valete, L Equitius Cincinnatus
:
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Chess |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:05:28 -0500 |
|
Salvete Patricia Cassia et alii
:From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
:
:
:A year or two ago, I found a board game called Ludi Romani in the British
:Museum, and bought a copy for Cassius. I honestly can't remember much
:about it, and it's no doubt at the bottom of one of these boxes we just
:moved into the new house, but someone out there has at least tried to
:resurrect a Roman game.
If you ever find that box, I would be very interested in finding out what
that game is.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
:
:Patricia Cassia
:
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:07:54 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/20/99 6:08:51 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:
<< Again, what on earth is the big deal about 12 dollars. It's so
simple- for one that can't afford it write a note or e-mail to the
appropriate magistrate with one simple statement " please waive my
yearly $12.00 payment"---- DONE!- no questions asked and private at
that. That's all it should be. Will anyone take advantage of that?---
Maybe but big deal. For most of us if we can afford it we'll send it
otherwise a proper message should be written with the previous
statement. How hard is this really? No need to penalize people and make
people feel inadequate for all their peers. No need for disciplinary
measures. We are just looking for a way to raise some capital, not
exclude anyone at anything for any reason. Is everyone OK with this. >>
I think this is over simplifying the issue. You can not have a "mandatory"
system unless their is a structure in place to enforce it. If no there is no
revoking of priveleges, then why should anyone pay the tax/dues.
If a tax/dues structure is put in place, there should be no excuse why anyone
can not raise $12.00 a year to pay their duty. And I believe some sort of
system should be put in place to entice citizens to do so.
I'm sorry if I sound cruel...but we are talking pocket change here. And for
the love of Rome, it's not asking too much from anyone (well...maybe Cypria
per her previous post).
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes and penalties |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:13:58 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 2/20/99 11:32:51 PM EST, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:
<< I DO NOT agree with making citizenship or voting rights contingent upon
payment. I don't think it is either appropriate or necessary to penalize
those who don't perform their civic duty in this respect. Obviously,
those who don't pay either cannot, in which case there is no point in
beating up on them, or choose not to, which suggests that they don't
agree with the goals of the organization. In the latter case, they may
well leave of their own accord. If they don't, they might still
contribute something of value as non-paying "hangers on." >>
Then once again you have the few support the many. There must be some sort of
penalty associated with non-payment. It doesn't have to be extreme (i.e.
denial of citizenship) but it should be something that places the non-
contributors seperate from those that do contribute.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: A subject OTHER than Taxes!!!! |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:16:33 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/21/99 0:02:26 AM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=210075235009158194169038000140172089134098100046209130" >iuliacaesaria@--------</a> writes:
<<
1) OK I will be moving out to California in June
2) I will be moving down here permanently, Sulla and I will be living
together while I finish up my schooling....and begin college.
3) Sulla and I will be officially engaged. We both love each other, and
well, we both have talked about this for a few months now. >>
Well congratulations Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks! I think that's wonderful!
Noct'a...you're moving from England right? What a haul! Sulla..treat her
right, this isn't a mere hop, skip, and jump.
And to think I couldn't even find a date for the Lupercalia! LOL
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:17:46 EST |
|
In a me--------e dated 2/21/99 0:55:25 AM EST, <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> write--------r>
<< How about foreign currency issues too and conversion rates. THe
> Euro-dollar? Keeping money raised in Europe in Europe for developement?
> -- and in Australia and elsewhere. Opinions? >>
This works...but you have to set up an organization in each country to manage
and bank the contributions there. They can't all go to Maine, USA.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:26:18 -0800 |
|
Okay. So I can't stay entirely on the side lines...
Gail and Thomas Gangale wrote: [much snipping]
> But meanwhile, regarding the disposition of taxes collected outside of the
> American provinces, (well, really, wherever the taxes are collected) I think
> that we get the most bang for the buck by keeping the funds in the
> macrojuristiction where they are raised. It will be inefficient and
> wasteful to transfer these funds across these inconvenient boundaries --
> purchasing international money orders, giving some bank a piece of the
> action in the conversion process, et cetera.
You said it. >>>
> I say, spend the money locally
> on worthwhile projects,
Hey!Why can't we all do that? Oh! 'Scuse me. We have been, and see the state
it has us in.
Of course the state we are in is not because of having or not having money.
> although the Senate should have some appropriate
> level of oversight.
Trust as you would be trusted.
The Senate has quite enough work. Have somebody do the job for them?
The Senate would still have to go over the reports, and isn't our Republic
a bit young for that level of bureaucracy?
BTW, there is talk on the part of some Taxers to have the amount be $20.
What's $20 now a days?
Now I'm going back to my insula, way in the back, and tell my steward to
dump all posts in the privy. Unfortunately he doesn't. lol
I'll be back.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:37:34 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/21/99 12:24:12 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
<< I doubt that my posts are any graver than some others expressing opposing
views. And if I had a drink every time you suggested that I do, my liver
would be shot by now. >>
But you'd be a much more pleasant person! : )
<<As you know, I do not take my citizenship lightly. If I viewed Nova Roma as
a club, I might actually have less problem with some sort of dues. But, it
is not a club, but a micronation, and so we are not talking about dues but
taxes.>>
Call it what you may...tax...dues...in the end it's a mandatory contribution.
And what's the big deal anyway?
<<Noone is compelling anyone to buy books, of course. Rather, you are trying
to compel everyone to pay a poll tax. Don't want any books? Send in a
check and drop it.>>
No...no one is compelling anybody to buy books. But how many book sales have
we had and how much "percentage" has contributed to the NR treasury? I
venture to say not much. And sending in a check and "dropping it" only goes
so far for once again you have a short few sending in money while the rest
ride the coat tails. Everyone must contribute their due. And the only way to
ensure this is with a mandatory contribution structure (fine...I'll ignore the
word "tax" or "dues") associated with some form of incentive.
<<The $12 figure is your proposal. For some of us that may be a small sum,
for others behind in their bills, not so small. And, once you set the
precedent of levying a tax, who is to say that others won't rapidly be
introduced?>>
Actually...the $12 figure was someone else's proposal (I think Gangalius'). I
originally suggest $20 a year. But I think the $12 per year works well. It
breaks down easily to only $1 a month. And with the exception of Cypria, no
one else has stepped forward stating their inability to pay. It now comes
down to what I would dare say CHEAP! If a mandatory contribution structure is
put in place...PAY IT! Forego that "yet another" book on Roman culture or
Pagan transcendentalism and contribute to the good of Nova Roma!
$12.00!!!!!!!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:44:32 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/21/99 12:24:27 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
<< Voluntary contributions are just that - voluntary, not coerced,
an expression of civic virtue if you will. Do you want to force people into
deciding whether they can be citizens on the basis of their cash flow? If
so, please explain why. >>
There is no coercian here...it's a matter of civic duty. You join..you
contribute...that's the way it goes. Not only here in NR but with everything
else in the real world. There is no such thing as a free ride. There is no
such thing as a free lunch. Think about it...we even pay for the air we
breathe. We does anyone expect NR to be there without any monetary
contribution from the whole of citizenry. The website costs money...t-shirts
costs money...renting space for events costs money. And it is unfair for the
select few who have been contributing for all this to continue to do so.
People are more apt to send in money when they know others are doing so of the
same amount and at the same time and when an incentive to do so is tied into
this payment. This is why charities are always strapt for cash because they
rely on a minute group of people in society who are willing to donate
voluntarily with nothing in return but the "satisfaction" that they
contributed. Let's not make Nova Roma a charity case...let us grow strong as
a micronation!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:17:22 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnes
>Salvete Luci Equiti et alii
>:Salvete Quirites
>:
>:>So, you're all for state coercion in Nova Roma.
>:LEC: Any law will have to be backed up by some form of penalty or it is
>:usless.
LEC: Nothing personal here.
>
>That is very true, and I am glad that you recognize it.
LEC: *There are those pronouns again 'I' and 'you'.
>:LEC; So we should maintain the status quo with the burden of maintaining
>:NovaRoma on the shoulders of a few?
>
>Not quite. Let me clarify my position:
>
>1. Senate prepares a budget,
>2. Magistrates are reimbursed from the treasury for any of their own
>expenses,
>3. Projects that are not paying for themselves, like the Eagle, get their
>prices increased to the point where they are self-sustaining,
>4. If 1-3 are implemented, and the treasury is still shrinking, meaningful
>debate on taxes begins.
>:
LEC; Here is what I HAD said:
" However, any tax/dues/whatever you want to call it, will have to be
brought before either the Comitia Centuriata or the Comitia Populi and then
be ratified by the Senate before it would become law."
The Quaestores are working on a budget. For the last two quarters
Quaestor Patricia Cassia has provided a report to the Senate on the income
of Nova Roma but I have no idea of the costs. In the beggining F Vedius
Germanicus 'owned' the website (at least this is my understand) when he
resigned the Site was turned over to the Cassiae (again this is my
understanding) what the costs are I do not know. I am waiting for
information just like most everyone.
We have been fortunate that there have been Citizens who have stepped
forward to donate their time, talent and Money. For this we are grateful.
There are projects that would be proposed (stamps and coins for
example) for these, funds will be needed. Before we can go forward a budget
needs to be proposed. Then we will see where we stand.
>:>The rules of the game will change as the Republic
>:>:evolves, and changes may come along which are not to the liking of some.
>:>
>:>No great evil, certainly. Not much good either though
>:
>:LEC; Really, there is no reason to make this personal.
>
>I agree. Civis Gangalius said "for there are no barriers to seeking
>residence in a micronation more to one's liking", to which I replied "Or
>will you only be satisfied when people start "seeking
>residence in micronations more to their liking"?" I fail to see the
>personal nature of the exchange.
>:>:
LEC: OK let us see, "Civis Gangalius said"..., "to which I replied",'Or
>will you...'; 'I' and 'you' seem more personal than we, us, those who and
our.
*damn I'm gettin' muddy already :-)
>
>:>:The passion of her protestations has convinced me of Cypria's sincerity.
>:>
>:>That's nice. I assume that you have talked this over with her...of
>course,
>:>it's none of my business...
>:>
>:LEC; Good Grief, I think I will take the offer of M. Mala Gangalius in the
>:spirt in which it it offered.
>
>But, Luci Equiti, the offer was not made to you personally, but to the
forum
>at large.
>
LEC: I guess only some are allowed to comment on this, huh? I'm not allowed
to have an opinion?
* I must be muddy now. I'm being called by name :-(
>:>I say again, All of these things work and are already in place.
>:
>:LEC; No, they do not work or we would not be having this discussion. As
far
>:as I know there are still T-shirts left from last years Roman Days, which
>:are fine T-shirts BTW.
>
>If they do not work, it means that NR is not receiving its percentage of
>Macellum sales. Is that the case?
LEC: No, it doesn't mean that at all.
> Should we not use the Macellum until the
>bugs are ironed out?
>
LEC: It only means that not enough people are spending enough money in the
Macellum.
>
>: I myself am in favor of some form of tax/poll tax. If you have the
>:right to vote on how the money is spent then you should have contributed
>:some, no?
>
>Do you mean to tell me that every citizen will be able to vote directly on
>the budget? I doubt that that is a practical approach, and, if we were to
>do so, I would wonder, why bother having a Senate?
>
LEC: Like I said, any proposal will have to be voted on by a comitia then
ratified by the Senate before it is law.
>: I must agree with Dexippus et alii, $5-$10-$12 per annus, is that so
>:much?
>:Just a spur of the moment idea...How about $5 poll tax and $10 you get a
>:year of the Eagle too? Or just the Eagle for $7?
>
>Is $7 enough to cover the Eagle's costs? I do not think so. What you are
>proposing sounds like depletion of the treasury, not increasing it.
>
LEC: Maybe not, but at least it is MORE that the $5 that is payed now. When
the Eagle started it was only a news letter one page and no color, it has
grown through the efforts of Flavia Claudia Juliana into a very nice monthly
that I look forward to. Yes the subscription should be increased, how much
should it be? I don't have the answer to that because I don't have the
information as to how much it costs to print but to send it would be $3.96
per year in th US.
> I am not in favor of a tax on citizenship though. This is not a either
or situation unless there are those who are unwilling to compromise. We are
all citizens and have the right to express our opinion here in the forum in
a civilized way. Let us refrain from ad hominum expressions and stay with
the issues please.
>That's "ad hominem".
LEC: Since when are "those who", "We are all citizens", "express our" and
"Let us refrain" ad hominem (to the person)?
I thought that 'ad nominem' was to attack the person rather than the idea.
Humm, just whom was I addressing above?
*Drat, muddier still :-)
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Fw: [novaroma] Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:06:03 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnes
>
Rereading this I admit this is NOT what I meant.
>>
>>Do you mean to tell me that every citizen will be able to vote directly on
>>the budget? I doubt that that is a practical approach, and, if we were to
>>do so, I would wonder, why bother having a Senate?
>>
>LEC: Like I said, any proposal will have to be voted on by a comitia then
>ratified by the Senate before it is law.
>
NO, the buget will be voted on by the Senate, but first monies will need to
be
gotten. Any tax/dues/etc. law will be voted on by a Comitia before being
ratified by the Senate.
Sorry for the error.
>Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Personal pronouns and names was Re: Taxes |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:43:12 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Equiti et alii
:From: "Lucius" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
:
:LEC: OK let us see, "Civis Gangalius said"..., "to which I replied",'Or
:>will you...'; 'I' and 'you' seem more personal than we, us, those who and
:our.
:*damn I'm gettin' muddy already :-)
There may be an effective way to communicate without personal pronouns and
names, but I certainly have not mastered it :). Heck, I don't even
understand how it would work!
:LEC: I guess only some are allowed to comment on this, huh? I'm not allowed
:to have an opinion?
:* I must be muddy now. I'm being called by name :-(
I certainly did not mean to imply that you should not have an opinion;
sorry if you took it that way. You have an opinion and so do I.
:
:LEC: Maybe not, but at least it is MORE that the $5 that is payed now. When
:the Eagle started it was only a news letter one page and no color, it has
:grown through the efforts of Flavia Claudia Juliana into a very nice
monthly
:that I look forward to.
Yes, I recently subscribed and I'm impressed with the Eagle. It's worth
more than $5 per year, that's for sure.
Yes the subscription should be increased, how much
:should it be? I don't have the answer to that because I don't have the
:information as to how much it costs to print but to send it would be $3.96
:per year in th US.
I don't know either. Probably only Claudia knows (oops! another name! :))
:
:> I am not in favor of a tax on citizenship though. This is not a either
:or situation unless there are those who are unwilling to compromise. We are
:all citizens and have the right to express our opinion here in the forum in
:a civilized way. Let us refrain from ad hominum expressions and stay with
:the issues please.
:
:>That's "ad hominem".
:
:
:LEC: Since when are "those who", "We are all citizens", "express our" and
:"Let us refrain" ad hominem (to the person)?
You misunderstood me. I was just correcting your Latin: instead of "ad
hominum" I think that it should have been "ad hominem".
:I thought that 'ad nominem' was to attack the person rather than the idea.
:Humm, just whom was I addressing above?
:*Drat, muddier still :-)
That was Gaius Marius Merullus whom you were addressing :). "Ad nominem"
may be similar to "ad hominem", but I've never heard of it:
:Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
:
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
U.S. Taxes |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:21:09 EST |
|
Do Nova Roma members still need to pay taxes in the country they live in?
|
| Subject: |
Re: Roman Crest |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:15:15 -0500 (EST) |
|
As I understand it, Mathew Amt has recieved a new Greek Helmet, and has
compiled a set of information about the Roman Helmets. Mr. Amt is the
Commander of the XXth Legion.
If you contact him, he may be able to help. Also a subscription on the
internet to Armalist will put you in touch with those people around the
world interested in Roman Weapons and Armor. Good Luck!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Budget |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:08:22 -0500 (EST) |
|
As I announced sometime before, the Budget Process is moving along
nicely. At the wishes of the Consul, I created a "strawman" (crude
proposal) Budget and submitted it to him, using the financial
information from the last Financial report from Quaestor Cassia with the
Consul's permission.
The 1st "strawman" was replaced by a 2nd "strawman: which contained some
additional proposals, and was forwarded to the Consuls. At the receipt
of the 2nd "strawman", he Consul asked that I contact the other two
Quaestors, and ask for better financial information for the newer
proposals (mine was just guesswork). This is what is going on now.
Budgets do not jump from the internet fully organized. It takes time to
do a decent job, as with most things worth having.
The 1st "strawman" was published to Nova Roma so you all have the
financial information possessed at this time by the Magistrates. As
that changes, I will keep you abreast of the newer developments.
Again I say, in regard to the "Eagle" that I belong to 6 organizations
(volunteer) who publish their own newsletters, including one that I
publish myself. All prices are $12.00 Annually with no restrictions on
number of pages. My recommendation is to immediately raise the price of
the "Eagle" subscription to $12.00 per year for citizens, and $6.00 per
year for Students and Schools.
As the Consul has said, the tax question does not yet even have a
proposal. There has been much comment on both sides of the questions
and good points made on both sides, however, as I have offered to write
a tax proposal to address both sides of the question, and required
approx. 5% of Nova Roma to agree. So far I have only two agreements,
so apparently I will not be wriiting the proposal.
Two other gentlemen are in the process of writing a proposal and have
done me the honor to ask me to join their effort. This I will do, based
on the two suppotrting messages that I have received. Even after the
Proposal is written, presented, smoothed and sent to the Senior
Magistrates it will have to be reviewed, submitted to the Civus Populi
and then approved by the Senate.
I suggest for now that we take the simpler action of raising the dues
for the "Eagle", as we know for a fact that the current fee does NOT pay
the bills. It is my understanding from all of you who are against
taxes, that you are not necessarily against paying our way as we go.
Let us take a definite answer that we can all agree on, and solve
immediately a current problem
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: New England Provincia celebrates NR anniversary |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:02:06 EST |
|
If it wasn't such short notice, I may have been able to make it up to Maine.
But can't do it for Feb. 28.
Enjoy all...I'll be there in spirit!
--Dexippus
|
