Subject:	Re: Latin trivia
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:52:51 -0800 (PST)

> > The plural of 'numen' is actually 'numines' (it's 3rd
declension).
>
> Yes, but what is its gender? I believe that it is declined like
flumen, in
> which case the nominative and accusative plural form is 'numina'.

I can't answer this without a dictionary to hand, but if you look
it up in e.g. Cassell's, it should give you the genitive form, which
will answer the question of which declension it belongs to. If the
genitive is 'numinis', then the plural will be 'numines'. As for
'flumen', I have no idea how that declines, so I'll have to leave you
to work that out. All I know with 'numen' is that I've done a fair bit
of epigraphy, and it crops up on tombstones quite often as
'numinibus', which is the dative plural meaning 'to the numines'. In
essence, I'm pretty sure the stem is 'numin-', not 'numen', which is
used only for the nominative form (quite a lot of third declension
nouns change their form like this). I'll check in a dictionary
tonight, and see what's going on.

>
> > 'Vivere' is 2nd conjugation (like 'regere'), so I guess if we
> >want to say 'Nova Roma lives', it's 'Nova Roma vivet', and if we want
> >to say 'May Nova Roma live', it's 'Nova Roma viveat'.
>
> I have to disagree. Vivere and regere are both 3rd conjugation ("I
live =
> vivo, not viveo, right?). Long Live Rome! = Vivat Roma.
>

You're absolutely right, and I stand corrected - that will teach
me to make things up from memory without a dictionary or grammar (I
always mail from college computers, as I don't have an internet
connection at home, and that's where my reference books are). I did
look this up last night, having a sneaky feeling I might be
misinforming people, and was going to correct it anyway. Apologies,
everyone!

Vale,
Aprica
==
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Subject:	Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:01:31 -0500

Lucius Cornelius Sulla:

You are being issued this formal reprimand by the Nova Roma Senate for the violation of your Magistrate's Oath:

You have not broken any NR laws and therefore cannot be convicted of a specific violation except the violation of the above oath. You did, deliberately, and without specific permission break-in, electronically, to the Senate's Be-Seen board and did again deliberately (against the warning sign posted thereon), proceeded to read the material contained there. Having accomplished that you then provided the URL to other(s)in Nova Roma to visit and then criticize what they saw there, knowing full well that this URL was a private means for the Senate to work out their problems and solutions in privacy. You then when confronted by a Senator and asked what you were doing lied twice before admitting your actions.

In reading the Magistrates Oath, it is noted:

--That in "upholding the honor of Nova Roma" you have failed as a liar and electronic burglar;

--That in "acting always in the best interest of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma", you have trodden over that part of the oath totally, deliberately and with malice aforethought;

--That in "Doing Honor to the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings" you have dishonored yourself before the Gods and Goddesses of Rome and shown them both disrespect, untruths and contempt;

--That in "pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and Private life" you have failed through your deliberate lies and deceits;

--That in "swearing to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of your elected office" you have violated the trust of those Magistrates elected over you, and have shown to all other Magistrates that you cannot be trusted;

--That in "the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people" you have disgraced both your office and yourself by your actions which were obviously not in the interests of the Roman Gods or the Roman People.


Mars nos protegis!

On behalf of the Senate,
Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Re: Latin trivia - the final word on 'numen'!
From:	Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:13:55 -0800 (PST)

---Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- wrote:
>
> From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>
> > > The plural of 'numen' is actually 'numines' (it's 3rd
> declension).
> >
> > Yes, but what is its gender? I believe that it is declined like
> flumen, in
> > which case the nominative and accusative plural form is 'numina'.
>
> I can't answer this without a dictionary to hand, but if you look
> it up in e.g. Cassell's, it should give you the genitive form, which
> will answer the question of which declension it belongs to. If the
> genitive is 'numinis', then the plural will be 'numines'. As for
> 'flumen', I have no idea how that declines, so I'll have to leave you
> to work that out. All I know with 'numen' is that I've done a fair bit
> of epigraphy, and it crops up on tombstones quite often as
> 'numinibus', which is the dative plural meaning 'to the numines'. In
> essence, I'm pretty sure the stem is 'numin-', not 'numen', which is
> used only for the nominative form (quite a lot of third declension
> nouns change their form like this). I'll check in a dictionary
> tonight, and see what's going on.

OK, I've now actually checked what's going on in a dictionary,
and this was another load of rubbish! In fact, the plural of 'numen'
_is_ numina, even though the genitive is 'numinis'. I think I'd seen
that genetive, plus the dative plural form I mentioned before, and
just worked back to a nominative plural as 'numines', on the model of
3rd declension masculine nouns such as 'leo', which has the plural
'leones'. But in fact, 'numen' is neuter, and declines just like
'nomen' (fairly unsurprisingly, I guess!) - it does have similar forms
to masculine nouns in most cases, but has the plural 'numina'. So
there you go - it just shows what can happen if you just assume things
without checking!

I response to Marius Fimbria's comment, I do agree that in
general, correcting people's grammar and syntax is not terribly
polite, but I think that in the case of Latin (and especially in the
special context of Nova Roma), I'd be sad if I never saw anyone
discussing and disputing points of grammar on this list. Personally,
I'd far rather have my mistakes politely pointed out to me, than go on
living in ignorance!

Valete,
Aprica.
==
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Subject:	Re: Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:28:29 EST

In a m--------g--------t--------/3/99 11:01:05 AM East--------Standard Tim----------------l@--------
writes:

<< You are being issued this formal reprimand by the Nova Roma Senate for the
violation of your Magistrate's Oath: >>

Ok...so can we call this Sulla-Gate? Any moves for impeachment? How about
questioning before the Senate? Removal from office?

Wow, we really are taking on the appearance of a macro-nation! : )

--Dexippus

Tsk Tsk Sulla....Tsk Tsk

Subject:	Re: [religio] New Year ritual
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:26:13 -0600 (CST)

On 03/03/99 08:41:09 you wrote:
>
>From: Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@--------
>
>Salvete!
>
> This is my first post to the religio list, but Ericius asked me
>to share with you all the research I did as background for the New
>Year ritual which we held recently in Britannia, so I thought this
>would be an appropriate time to start posting.

Beautiful, cousin! Absolutely beautiful! Bravo to you and the Britainnia branch of the family!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Latin trivia - the final word on 'numen'!
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:29:53 -0600 (CST)

On 03/03/99 08:13:55 you wrote:
>
> I response to Marius Fimbria's comment, I do agree that in
>general, correcting people's grammar and syntax is not terribly
>polite, but I think that in the case of Latin (and especially in the
>special context of Nova Roma), I'd be sad if I never saw anyone
>discussing and disputing points of grammar on this list. Personally,
>I'd far rather have my mistakes politely pointed out to me, than go on
>living in ignorance!

The key word here is "politely."
We're all trying to improve our Latin, so this has been pretty interesting.
As far as "numen," this discussion has been informational for me, since I thought the plural was "numinae," so I was glad to have it corrected.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: RE corrections was Latin trivia
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:38:07 EST

In a message dated 3/3/99 8:13:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- writes:

<< I response to Marius Fimbria's comment, I do agree that in
general, correcting people's grammar and syntax is not terribly
polite, but I think that in the case of Latin (and especially in the
special context of Nova Roma), I'd be sad if I never saw anyone
discussing and disputing points of grammar on this list. Personally,
I'd far rather have my mistakes politely pointed out to me, than go on
living in ignorance! >>
Claudia lucentia Aprica is correct. I thought that this was a learning source
as well
as temple. If knowledgeable people don't attempt to correct the errors, then
a good reason for our existence is wasted.
Q. Fabius

Subject:	Re: [religio] New Year ritual
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:13:46 EST

In a message dated 3/3/99 12:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
m--------oon@-------- wr--------:

<< > This is my first post to the religio list, but Ericius asked me
>to share with you all the research I did as background for the New
>Year ritual which we held recently in Britannia, so I thought this
>would be an appropriate time to start posting. >> blah blah blah

Wasn't Marzuvius an original member of the Capitoline Triad before Minverva
was added? I'm just curious as to how Nova Roma settled on Jupiter, Juno, and
Minerva as the Triad for our Republic. And does anyone know at what point and
why was Mars replaced with Minerva?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	"Amethystia Iunia Crystallina" mater4ever@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:58:01 -0000

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:01:31 Lucius wrote:
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla:
>
>You are being issued this formal reprimand by the Nova Roma Senate for the violation of your Magistrate's Oath:
>
>You have not broken any NR laws and therefore cannot be convicted of a specific violation except the violation of the above oath. You did, deliberately, and without specific permission break-in, electronically, to the Senate's Be-Seen board

Any idiot, could have figured out that address. I did.

and did again deliberately (against the warning sign posted thereon), proceeded to read the material contained there. Having accomplished that you then provided the URL to other(s)in Nova Roma to visit and then criticize what they saw there, knowing full well that this URL was a private means for the Senate to work out their problems and solutions in privacy.

It has been brought to my attention, that I am one of the people that Sulla gave the address too. This is truly headline news to me. Yes, he did call me and say , "Guess what I found, the Senate board." and "I said whats the address? Is it something stupid like www.novaroma.org/Senate?"

However, I have not lurked at the site. And although I hate to sound paranoid, I would dare say I am one of the people being FALSEY accused of breaking in the Senate Board and reading the Information. I have been without a modem since the Beginning of January, so how did I break in to the Senate.

You then when confronted by a Senator and asked what you were doing lied twice before admitting your actions.

I am under the understanding that Sulla voluntarily told multiple Seators. That he had done this and had recieved permission. He did lurk a couple of times before he got permission, from the First Senator, but in my humble opinion, the Senate got what they deserved. Having a URL that Terry could have figured out!

Crys
<So glad to have her modem back>

---
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A.I. Crystallina
P.I.Terrelina
Lapis Stone (coming SOON)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. <a href="http://www.angelfire.com" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com</a>

Subject:	Welcome Back!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:22:19 -0500 (EST)

My dear if you have the capability would you send the contents of the
disk with the map pictures on it to Patricia Cassia, She is ready to
post my Sales Site information, and then return the disk to me. If you
do not have that capability, then would you please send me the 3 inch
disk back, so I can have my son do it for me. I have helped him to
upgrade his computer system, and he has asked if there is any way that
he can help. With his scanner, I want to see if I can transmit the map
pctures to a local printshop, and I need the disk. Thank You very much!

Most Respecfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Thanks
From:	"Amethystia Iunia Crystallina" mater4ever@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:24:57 -0000

Salvete All


I need to thank all of the following people for all they have done over th last few months.

The Gens Cassius for the stuffed animal for Lapis and the book for Terry. Terry loves that book and for the longest time wouldnt let anyone near it. <g>

Venator for the book for me, the fibula for Lapis and the bracelet and sash for Terry. I could not have handpicked a better uncle for my babies.

Audens for the amulet. Which I truly believe brought us good luck and good times. Things have only gotten better since it has come into our lives.

Flavia Claudia for the blanket for Lapis and the 2 dollies for Terry. She loves both dolls and has been sleeping peacefully in her own room under the protection of her fairy. The other doll I gave her when she came to visit us in the Hospital. Everyone at the hospital loved the blanket too.

Sulla for the daily calls from December on, keeping me updated on the Lists and convincing me to go to the Emergency room those times when my obstinance got in the way of my common sense. <g>

Dexippus for the great phone call and the blessings.

Palladius for the phone call and of course, Lapis's Roman name. I really like it.

Q.Fabius (or is that Fabulous) for the phone call and the online support before my computer committed suicide.

P.Cassia (and Cassius) for the phone call. (I put the call and the gift separately, because they came separately, more twisted logic from yours truly.) <g>

Tink for the phone call.

and

Nocta for the conference call between Sulla and me. <g>

I need snail mail addresses for all of the above. Becuase snail mail thanks are coming from Don and I.

Now for the newest update:

We are moving to Texas Sunday. Wish me luck.

Valete!


Crys
<Glad to be back>
---
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A.I. Crystallina
P.I.Terrelina
M.I.Posterius
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~acl_pit/amethyst.htm</a>




Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. <a href="http://www.angelfire.com" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com</a>

Subject:	Rome Information
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:31:26 EST

Where might I find a good website for Roman history, and a site for learning
Latin?

Subject:	Re: Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:45:15 EST

In a message dated 3/3/99 3:58:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
m--------4ever@-------- writes:

<< Any idiot, could have figured out that address. I did.

It has been brought to my attention, that I am one of the people that Sulla
gave the address too. This is truly headline news to me. Yes, he did call me
and say , "Guess what I found, the Senate board." and "I said whats the
address? Is it something stupid like www.novaroma.org/Senate?" >>

Well...now that everyone (idiot or not) knows the address, don't everyone
crash the server at once! Perhaps it should be relocated to a different
address?

And yeah...seemingly simple address. What's the pontiff board?
www.novaroma.org/pontiff?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:18:09 -0600 (CST)

On 03/03/99 20:58:01 you wrote:
>
>From: "Amethysti--------ni--------yst--------n----------------4ever@--------
>
>
>However, I have not lurked at the site. And although I hate to sound paranoid, I would dare say I am one of the people being FALSEY accused
of breaking in the Senate Board and reading the Information. I have been without a modem since the Beginning of J
>anuary, so how did I break in to the Senate.

You haven't been accused of anything, and neither has anyone else. Why so defensive? .
>
>You then when confronted by a Senator and asked what you were doing lied twice before admitting your actions.
>
>I am under the understanding that Sulla voluntarily told multiple Seators.

He told two of them AFTER he'd already done it and one of them immediately contacted Patricia Cassia to change the site.

That he had done this and had recieved permission. He did lurk a couple of times before he got permission, from the First Senator, but in my
humble opinion, the Senate got what th
>ey deserved. Having a URL that Terry could have figured out!

What a convenient excuse for dishonest behavior -- "They made it easy for me to do it, so it's justified." Forget personal responsibility, and
forget the "privacy" notice posted on the board. We come upon a lot of things -- small and large -- every day that would be EASY to do, but
people don't do them if the act is dishonest. If you go ahead anyway, you've made a personal decision that says a lot about your character.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Myths of Greece/Rome
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:13:27 EST

Anyone notice that Roman mythology with Romulus and Remus picks up in Greek
mythology. But Romulus and Remus are proven to have existed in 753 BC when
they founded Rome. So, what does this mean? (There are a few differences
such as the Roman version having Romulus and Remus having been born from the
god of war, Mars (deified Amulius), whereas the Greek version was that they
were the sons of Cronus (god of time I believe..).

Was Greek mythology a history book of sorts, with various people being deified
for their deeds? Romulus and Remus' mother was a priestess...

Subject:	Re: We all can use some remedial Latin
From:	GWMETZ@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:28:53 EST

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


March 3, 1999
Year of Rome 2751

Ave et Salutatio...

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
Tribune Militaris, NovaRoma Gens Velia
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
gwmetz@-------- 610-363-4982

We in Legio XXIV can use all the Latin instruction we can get !

While I agree that too much of any one thing or petty correction
can become tiresome; there are a lot more less informative
postings on the "List" than some occasional remedial lessons
in Latin.

Thanks RMerullo and Aprica, and keep any appropriate
latin advice coming, when it could be instructive to the citizens
of NovaRoma in general.

As always I remain;

Vester in Sodalem Reipublica Romana
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic

PS: Do these Latin phrases pass muster ?
Private or Public correction requested.


Gallio / George


O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A


ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
|| | | ||
|| |||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||
\/ | | \/
| |
| |

Subject:	Re: Myths of Greece/Rome---THE FAR SIDE
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:36:52 -0600 (CST)

There was a cartoon in the last few days in paper from I think the
Far Side showing a guy standing by the window of a nursury looking in. A
she-wolf is standing off at the lefthand side looking in too while a
nurse has twins in her hands on the other side of the window. Anyone
else see this?

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	More Myths 2
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:36:29 EST

Admetus, (Greek Mythology) was the king of Pherae. When he became ill, an
oracle stated that he would die unless someone offered to accept death in his
place. His wife Alcestis offered herself. As she was being carried off to the
underground Hercules, a friend of Admetus, stepped in and forced death to let
her live.

Almost an exact copy of a Sumerian myth I came across where I think
Ningal...or something like that...offered herself for her husband. They each
spend half the year in there and cause summer/winter. Theres also a hercules-
is figure but I dont remember what happened regarding that..

Subject:	More Mythology
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:30:29 EST

Achilles' mother, a sea nymph, dunked him in the Styx River to make him
immortal, but she had held him by the heel so it was not made immortal.
Reminds me of the thing in the Bible where God says something like "The snake
will bruise thy heel". I dont remember it exactly. Anyways, sea
nymph....snake....

Subject:	Re: [religio] New Year ritual
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:00:58 -0800

Dexippus@-------- wrote:

> From: Dexippus@--------
>
> Wasn't Marzuvius an original member of the Capitoline Triad before Minverva
> was added? I'm just curious as to how Nova Roma settled on Jupiter, Juno, and
> Minerva as the Triad for our Republic. And does anyone know at what point and
> why was Mars replaced with Minerva?
>
> --Dexippus

Jove, Juno and Minerva were always the Triad of the Capitol. This is basically
another Etruscan thing in origin. The equivalent Etruscan Triad was Tin, Uni and
Menrva, which are simply the Etruscan (Razenni) names for Jove Pater (Jupiter),
Juno and Minerva.
(Zeus, Hera & Athene for you Greeks. ;-)

Ericius
----------------------
Fit via vi.

Subject:	Re: Reprimand of Lucius Cornelius
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:00:50 -0600

Salvete Omnes;

If I may; an unhappy circumstance this, but apparently necessary in the
opinion of the Senate, as announced by the Consul Cincinnatus.

As for anyone being able to figure out the previous Senate board
address, this assumes that "anyone" had an interest in reading the
Senate's deliberations and trying to find said address. I had not and
did not.

Part of being adult is having trust in your leadership.

Having been part of the government and state of the SCA, in leadership
positions in Boy Scouting, a professional NCO in the military, within
the confidence of several of the leaders in the Retro-Heathen
Re-Awakening, etceteras - I have learned that confidences, both implicit
and explicit are made to be taken as Sacred Oaths.

I am saddened by this matter. But, life is long and we learn. Shall we
move on and help to build the Re-Awakened Rome?

mea sententia

Valete - Venator