| Subject: |
Classes |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:32:18 EST |
|
Perhaps the terms "patrician" (from 'patre' meaning father, meaning a
descendant of those who founded rome) and "plebeian" are not appropriate for
Nova Roma. Does anyone have any thoughts as to other methods of separating
the citizens?
Perhaps two new classes of citizens, perhaps more than two could be created.
Methods of selection could include anything from education, military service,
wealth, social status, to how well informed they are. One problem I see in
the United States is that many people vote that do not have all the
information. Perhaps a new "upper class" would be created for those who have
the right to vote, meaning they must have certain information. Another
possibility is that there would be no classes, and that each person is given
certain priveledges depending on what they have done prior and the methods of
selection mentioned above could be of use in determining them.
Example:
Those who have completed basic education (K-12) would have the right to vote.
(I'm not saying thats how it would be used, just using that as a crude
example.)
|
| Subject: |
Side note |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:55:48 EST |
|
While I was thinking about the classes and was mentioning education as a
requirement I thought about the possibility of Nova Roman education systems.
Perhaps online courses or NR private schools eventually. Just a thought.
Could bring in a little revenue (especially for online courses in latin or for
printouts for homeschoolers).
|
| Subject: |
Re: Side note (Homeschooling) |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:52:58 EST |
|
In a message dated 99-03-08 01:56:23 EST, you write:
<< While I was thinking about the classes and was mentioning education as a
requirement I thought about the possibility of Nova Roman education systems.
Perhaps online courses or NR private schools eventually. Just a thought.
Could bring in a little revenue (especially for online courses in latin or
for
printouts for homeschoolers).
>>
Salvete,
There are actually a lot of Roman resources that are already available for
homeschoolers! Our family copy shop just has a woman come in with at least a
dozen Roman books that were made by various homeshool learning companies...
she was homeshcooling her two daughters and they were doing Rome as part of an
ancient history unit!
I'm afraid that I didn't get any titles, but she said the books are available
online by doing a websearch on homeschooling materials. The books themselves
were wonderful. Great info, lots of games and puzzles such as learning to
count Roman money, ancient Roman crosswords, etc. Even though these things
were written for children, they were really pretty interesting.
The best thing about the homeschooling stuff is that it's completely copyright
free. It's made specifically to be copied and used without restraints. The
material is written by certified teachers, so if anyone out there is
interested in helping their kids out with fun historical stuff that most
schools just gloss over, books such as these are worth looking into.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Orientation of Roman altars |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:32:59 -0800 (PST) |
|
---James Mathe--------math669642reng@-------- --------e:
>
> My books on Roman Engineering state that he Romans did not have the
> compass at this time so the magnetic directions had no meaning.
> Movement to the cardinel points (North, South, East and West may have
> been defined in other terms from Rome and within the city, but
> apparently all linear surveying was done from a fixed point, using 90
> degree angles, (groma) and linear straight lines or angles for heights
> (dioptra).
You're quite right that magnetic compass points were unknown. In
city surveying, all other points were measured in relation to the
rising sun on the day of foundation of the city, i.e. approximately
due east.
> A medieval re-print of a Roman Road Map indicates distance between
towns
> and camps, Mountains are indicated as are rivers, drawings of
buildings
> indicate special features, but there is nothing to indicate a
North-South
> or East-West orientation. In fact to a Westerner used to reading a
> Mercator Projection map this Roman Strip Map is very difficult to make
> sense of and to use without some basic map review.
I presume by this you mean the Peutinger Table? It's excellent,
though, isn't it!? It's not really a 'map' in the sense that we mean
it, but rather a pictorial way of representing what would usually be a
simple list of towns, with distances between them indicated in Roman
miles. I think it _is_ roughly oriented with the north at the top,
although it's not very consistent. Roman maps were oriented towards
the north more frequently than any other direction, but it certainly
wasn't the universal rule. For example, the Forma Urbis Romae (Severan
marble map of Rome) has roughly the south-west at the top, which can
be quite confusing to a modern viewer!
Valete,
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: Governor titles revisited... |
| From: |
Claudia Aprica quinta_claudia_lucentia_aprica@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:45:00 -0800 (PST) |
|
---Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@-------- wrote:
>
> > I don't think
> > 'Gubernator' is really an appropriate title for Nova Roman
provincial
> > governors, as it is a _very_ late word, relating to a society whch
had
> > become very different to the Republican one we are trying to
emulate.
> > I think it's also acquired some slightly nasty overtones in modern
> > usage, which we would probably want to avoid.
>
> What nasty tones are these? Is this an English thing? :) In the U.S.,
> governor races are referred to gubernatorial races but other than
that....
I'm not totally sure, it's just a vague memory. But I've a
feeling it gets used to describe leaders of fascist movements and
things like that in Europe. I could be wrong, but if it gives me those
vague feelings of disquiet, then it probably will for other Europeans
too, which is why I'd suggest it's best avoided.
Aprica.
==
**********************************************************************
Drop in on my gens - <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1133</a>
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:51:08 EST |
|
I would be interested to hear from anyone who saw last night's dual episode of
"Rome: Power & Glory" on The Learning Channel.
Specifically, I'm curious as to how accurate their information was. NR
Historians care to comment?
I found the episodes very intriguing but not being too up to speed on the
history of the Legions, I'm just curious as to the accuracy of the
information.
Does anyone know what tonight's episodes cover?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Gubernator |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:18:53 -0500 (EST) |
|
The title Gubernator was apparently given o the pilot (not Commander)
of a ship in Roman service either civilian or military. He was the
number two man in command of a vessel. The "Commanding Officer" decided
where the ship would go and the "guburnator" got him there. Gubernator
was one of the areas that could be taken up as "milles immunes" in the
legions.
The original Marcus Minucius Audens was a milles immunes and a
"gubernator" on river craft in Brittainae from a Funeral Stone retrieved
there. He also served as a "gromaciti" (milles immunes who used a groma
or surveying instrument).
Reference:
-Ship's and Seamanship in the Ancient World; Lionel Casson, Pages
310-317;
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:18:21 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 3/8/99 8:51:37 AM P--------ic St--------rd Time, Dexippus@--------
writes:
<< would be interested to hear from anyone who saw last night's dual episode
of
"Rome: Power & Glory" on The Learning Channel.
Specifically, I'm curious as to how accurate their information was. NR
Historians care to comment?
I found the episodes very intriguing but not being too up to speed on the
history of the Legions, I'm just curious as to the accuracy of the
information. >>
Salve Dex.
I have the series. Just with Celebrate History looming I'm painting legiones
rather then watching them. I'll pop a cassette into the VCR and check it out.
Vale
QFM
|
| Subject: |
Roman Infantry Equipment. The Later Empire (New Pub) |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:23:25 EST |
|
Salvete
All you late empire devotees may be interested to know that Tempus
(publishing) has just published *Roman Infantry Equipment. The Later Empire*
by I.P. Stephenson.
Valete
QFM
|
| Subject: |
Taxes |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:01:00 EST |
|
I was thinking, why not have taxes based upon annual income? 1/1000 of annual
income. The average person makes $25,000 yearly (like 22,000-something
actually but who cares) so $25. If everyone in Nova Roma made the average
amount thats $5400 yearly. Quite a bit. Also was thinking maybe NR could
negate taxes on someone if they found someone else who would join. It would
encourage recruiting.
Oh well just some thoughts. This has already been talked about but just
thought I'd give a few ideas anyway.
|
| Subject: |
NR City |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:17:17 EST |
|
If NR ever did get land and did indeed build a city, would it be based on the
same brick and stone structures as Old Rome or would it be more
technologically advanced? My thinking is that the Romans were very advanced
for the time and NR should try to emulate that only in the present day.
Oh, this is a weird little thought and I'll probably get flamed for this but:
Why not have Nova Roma called Remora instead? Thats what Remus wanted to call
it. Reason being that NR has no debauchery, no slaves, and no military and it
really doesnt fit the Roma "Strong" description. This isnt meant as an
insult, negative comment, or insolent remark in any way. ::Puts on his
asbestos vest::
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:14:40 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 3/8/99 3:04:32 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, Tem----------------
writes:
<< I was thinking, why not have taxes based upon annual income? 1/1000 of
annual
income. The average person makes $25,000 yearly (like 22,000-something
actually but who cares) so $25. If everyone in Nova Roma made the average
amount thats $5400 yearly. Quite a bit. Also was thinking maybe NR could
negate taxes on someone if they found someone else who would join. It would
encourage recruiting.
Oh well just some thoughts. This has already been talked about but just
thought I'd give a few ideas anyway. >>
The problem with taxing based on income is that we make our living outside of
Nova Roma and it would be unethical for NR to tax the income of a citizen that
is derived from a macronation. The tax should be based upon a NR standard.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:34:00 EST |
|
<The problem with taxing based on income is that we make our living outside of
Nova Roma and it would be unethical for NR to tax the income of a citizen that
is derived from a macronation. The tax should be based upon a NR standard.>
The .1% tax wouldnt be permanent, but we need something to get NR off the
ground. NR has no income at the moment. We'd need to have an NR corporation
or something set up to make money.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:41:39 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 3/8/99 4:35:46 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, Tem----------------
writes:
<< The .1% tax wouldnt be permanent, but we need something to get NR off the
ground. NR has no income at the moment. We'd need to have an NR corporation
or something set up to make money. >>
Thus a flat tax of $12.00 per year ($1.00 per month) has been proposed and
argued.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: NR City |
| From: |
Michael Cessna clinkerbuilt2@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:56:01 -0800 (PST) |
|
---Tem---------------- wrote:
>
> From: Tem----------------
>
> If NR ever did get land and did indeed build a city, >would it be
based on the same brick and stone >structures as Old Rome or would it
be more >technologically advanced?
>
>>
I've given this some thought...For whoever would care to, check out
these site's:
<a href="http://www.monolithicdome.com" target="_top" >http://www.monolithicdome.com</a>
<a href="http://www.calearth.org" target="_top" >http://www.calearth.org</a>
I ran across both of these in copies of American Survival
Guide...........
Vale, all,
Gn Marius
>>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: NR City |
| From: |
"Gehn" gehn@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:24:09 -0800 |
|
I think that a mixture of ancient and modern would be best. Perhaps have the
buildings made out of modern materials with modern amenities, but have them
look ancient. Or, make them out of the same material the Romans used, but
add modern amenities to the buildings. Just my 9.99991 cents (inflation +
floating point error)
-Fannius
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tem---------------- [m--------o:Tem----------------]
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:17 PM
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] NR City
>
>
> From: Tem----------------
>
> If NR ever did get land and did indeed build a city, would it be
> based on the
> same brick and stone structures as Old Rome or would it be more
> technologically advanced? My thinking is that the Romans were
> very advanced
> for the time and NR should try to emulate that only in the present day.
>
> Oh, this is a weird little thought and I'll probably get flamed
> for this but:
> Why not have Nova Roma called Remora instead? Thats what Remus
> wanted to call
> it. Reason being that NR has no debauchery, no slaves, and no
> military and it
> really doesnt fit the Roma "Strong" description. This isnt meant as an
> insult, negative comment, or insolent remark in any way. ::Puts on his
> asbestos vest::
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms?
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Sign up for a new email list today
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: NR City |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:24:21 EST |
|
> I've given this some thought...For whoever would care to, check out
> these site's:
>
> <a href="http://www.monolithicdome.com" target="_top" >http://www.monolithicdome.com</a>
> <a href="http://www.calearth.org" target="_top" >http://www.calearth.org</a>
This is the kind of thing I was thinking of too. Extremely cheap housing. My
ideas have branched onto two kinds of housing. One would be the cement-style
house. You'd simply dig out the foundation and then "cast the mold" into the
foundation. We could construct hundreds and hundreds of perfectly
proportioned Rome-style pillars too if we want to go for the classic look.
Idea #2 is that we'd have buildings made out of small plates. Basically you'd
have "plates" that would be 10 feet tall by 5 feet wide by 5 inches thick.
These would be made of a combination of metal framework and plastics. Each
would have slots built in for power lines, telephones, fiber-optics, etc. and
all you'd need to do is "snap" the walls together and onto the foundation.
These would also have the ability to be "snapped" off and to put on new walls
or expand the house with very little work.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
Oplontian@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:54:34 EST |
|
Salve,
I watched the first episode of this series last night. I thought it was a
typical Hollywood production - in other words, the tabloid version of history
where the names of the people are the same but all the events have been
distorted almost beyond recognition. Much of the photography was quite good,
although it was generally not related to whatever was being discussed at any
particular moment. There were some very good shots of Imperial Roman temples
in Turkey, Africa, and France.
What these temples had to do with the founding and early history of Rome was
never explained. There were many comments about the alleged sex lives of the
Etruscans, gladitorial games, and (according to the narrator) the brutal and
cruel nature of the Roman character. If you want to watch this series, watch
it for the pictures and don't pay any attention to what is being said. The
narration is not very reliable. In my opinion.
Vale,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
Temale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:47:06 EST |
|
<<The narration is not very reliable. In my opinion.>>
In both our opinions.
"I would rather be the first man in a barbarian camp than the second man in
Rome" - Julius Caeser.
Partly true, but they twisted the hell out of that. One possibility is that
Caesar was just saying "I would rather die than be anything less than absolute
ruler", which is what I think he was saying. But even if he was saying that
Roman politics was vicious...its probably true. But thats what you get when
you try to become absolute ruler of a militant nation. Nowadays we have
passive politics that allow politicians to break promises and in generally
screw with people and tax us heavily. I'd prefer Caesar to Clinton myself.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:07:16 -0800 (PST) |
|
At 11:51 AM 3/8/99 EST, Dexippus@-------- wrote:
>From: Dexippus@--------
>
>I would be interested to hear from anyone who saw last night's dual episode of
>"Rome: Power & Glory" on The Learning Channel.
>
>Specifically, I'm curious as to how accurate their information was. NR
>Historians care to comment?
>
>I found the episodes very intriguing but not being too up to speed on the
>history of the Legions, I'm just curious as to the accuracy of the
>information.
>
>Does anyone know what tonight's episodes cover?
>
>--Dexippus
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Come check out our brand new web site!
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Onelist: Making the Internet intimate
>
>
Salve Dexippus.
I would describe "Rome: Power and Glory" as a well-produced primer on Roman
history. It certainly doesn't go into depth. The Samnite, Macedonian, and
Social wars went unmentioned. Scipio got all the glory for defeating
Hannibal at Zama, but Fabius Cunctator's strategy of bottling up Hannibal in
southern Italy was entirely ignored. Not a hint of the complex political
situation in southern Italy and Sicily between the Italian allies, the Greek
states, and Carthage! Not a single sound bite for the Gracchi! Et cetera!
How could one expect to cover more that a thousand years of history in just
a few hours? Realistically, even covering a single century in an hour would
be challenging.
But don't get me wrong... it's worth watching. I just want more! But than,
don't we all?
Vale,
Gangalius.
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
gangale@--------
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Rome: Power & Glory |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:31:21 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete omnes.
The Romans were cruel and brutal? Compared to whom? Shapur, who had
Valerian stuffed? Try telling the barbarians how we understand that they're
from "dysfunctional environments" and how we "feel their pain," then see how
they repay you!
Valete.
Marcus Mala Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
gangale@--------
Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>
The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>
The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>
The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>
World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>
|
