Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:32:54 +0000

Rome already has a creation myth.

Pythia

Tem---------------- wrote:
>
> From: Tem----------------
>
> I think Nova Roma needs a creation myth. Every part of Roman history has some
> kind of myth around it. We need to make something up like....Quirinius told
> us to make him a temple and build a city around it or something. Or "Teach
> the people what we were". Something.
>
> Eagle newsletter: What about adding historical information/other content to
> the Eagle. Could turn it into a "real" magazine.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We are proud as punch of our new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services

--
________________________________________________________________________________________________

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<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
The largest selection of fine jewelry and diamonds available in
Cyberspace.
Satisfaction Guarenteed.


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:06:38 EST

>From: Tem----------------
>
>Actually, my thinking is it will deter criminals. ...........
>The entire city would not allow guns. Only swords. ...........
You may have noticed that in modern society, murder, rape, and robbery
also "aren't allowed." What makes you think that criminals will care that
guns aren't allowed either? Do you actually understand what being a
"criminal" implies?

>So what is the criminal going to do? Attack someone with a knife?
No, they will go and get a gun (or make one), inconveniently ignoring the
fact that guns "aren't allowed."

>Usually criminals arent as bold, especially if the person they are
>attacking is somewhat well trained and is also carrying a sword.
You might be amazed at how "bold" criminals are, especially when they
know that their prospective victims aren't allowed to have guns. Take a
walk through the back streets of New York, L.A., or Washington, D.C.,
where guns (and swords) aren't allowed.

Why don't you carry the idea a little further and just disallow criminals
in your dream city? "No crime allowed" -- then you won't even need
swords. That'll solve the entire problem of crime. Wonder why nobody's
thought of it before you came along? My gosh, how we've needed your
insight, Scriptus Frigus!

I'm sorry, Frigus, but it might be well if you would learn to screen
these ideas for basic rationality before you publish them. ;-)

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:06:40 EST

>I seriously doubt it would cause much of a problem though. How many
>criminals
>would you have? Why would they pick NR? Sure they could scale the walls at
>night or drop a bomb, but thats a threat anywhere. Not having guns isnt
>going
>to change "nuclear-biological-chemical weapons". And guns are a danger even
>if the citizens have guns if some psycho with an M16 goes ape-shit in the
>Forum. Fine, carry a gun if you want, but I think sword fighting should be
>commonly taught as well as hand-to-hand combat.

There's another problem implied here, Frigus (are you certain that's how
you wish to be addressed??). What makes you think (as you to) that
killing people with swords is in any way kinder or nicer or neater or
more acceptable than doing it with a firearm? As I've explained to my
teenaged son (who, coincidently, talks a lot like you), training and
practicing with deadly weapons implies a willingness to use them -- to
kill. Killing isn't any nicer with old weapons than with new, I promise
you.

By the way, guns are not a danger "if some psycho with an M16 goes
ape-shit in the Forum" if some citizen has one with which to stop your
"psycho."

But enough of this stuff -- can we get off the subject of what method
Nova Romans should use to kill people? Please?

Thanks,

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:12:02 EST

<<I'm sorry, Frigus, but it might be well if you would learn to screen
these ideas for basic rationality before you publish them. ;-)>>

So you're saying asking people to act decent isnt rational?


Subject:	Criminals
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:15:36 EST

Usually criminals are only criminals because they aren't happy. You usually
don't see alot of billionare bank-robbers. I think in a city that has
activities to keep people occupied, an atmosphere in which everyone is having
a good time or at least isnt having a BAD time, theres not going to be much
crime.


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:18:46 EST

<<Why don't you carry the idea a little further and just disallow criminals
in your dream city? "No crime allowed" -- then you won't even need
swords. That'll solve the entire problem of crime. Wonder why nobody's
thought of it before you came along? My gosh, how we've needed your
insight, Scriptus Frigus!>>

Well thats the general idea. The whole point of swords is mainly for show.
Just like swords are for marines. In a war the chance of actually using that
sword for a large part of the battle is not likely, but its a matter of honor
that they have it and can use it. The use of a sword has been a matter of
honor for centuries. Just look at the Spanish "Mystic Circle" swordfighting.
An entire way of thinking, of fighting, of self-esteem, etc. all just from the
use of sword and rapier.


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:28:09 -0500 (EST)

I am not sure of two items here. I an not sure how I insulted you
Tamale. I indicated that I and everyone else here expected a little
consideration in your comments about changing Nova Roma into something
not reflected on the Home Page, and I asked your age. Both, I think are
straight forward expectations considering that there have been some
younger people on the net, at different times, who did not understand
that Nova Roma is not some kind of game.

My second puzlement is why, Cassius' comment about Nova Roma's future
plans is disappointing, unles you have not read or understood what our
Home Page says and what is reflected in our Constitution. I do not
agree that it is disappointing at all, but rather something thrilling to
look forward to.

You are not the only one who has been doing research in the efforts to
find a suitable place for our World Office. I do not see that the U.S.
is a joke as the founding place of New Rome, as someone else has said.
The other nations of the world were as free as we to found the
micro-nation, but we did it. If others think Americans are a joke, look
around you at who for the last 5 decades has stood "guardian at the
gate" with our sister nations against the disruptors, and who have in
recent years have given money, blood, sweat and tears to help the
starving and sick of the world. There have been mistakes made <of
course> for it is said that they who do nothing make no mistakes. I had
the utmost pride to be a part of all that, and in every port, in every
country there were always those hard-working men and women who were glad
to shake our hands and thank us.

Ride out a hurricane at sea, stand two night watches back to back,
because your relief is vomiting his guts up with Asian Flu, take time
away from your family, and learn something of value about the world not
out of books, give the Nova Roma it's due and follow the mission of the
institution. Help in a constructive way, make a Proposal well thought
out, share an idea, with how will we accomplish it. There is not yet a
concurrence within Nova Roma about how funds shall be raised in the
future, much less what kind of quartz paving stones our streets will be
made of. Those decisions will be made when it is appropriate, meanwhile
how about some help down here on terra firma with a little bit of
commitment, and good old fashioned hard work concerning the things that
need to be done?

Marcus Municius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:29:58 EST

Before I start in theres one thing I'd like to say. HAVE YOU LISTENED TO ONE
FREAKIN WORD OF WHAT I'VE SAID? ::composes himself:: Okay...lets see..

<<There's another problem implied here, Frigus (are you certain that's how
you wish to be addressed??).>>
I'd prefer Scriptus or Novus.

<<What makes you think (as you to) that killing people with swords is in any
way kinder or nicer or neater or more acceptable than doing it with a
firearm?>>
I have never said that it is nicer, neater, or more acceptable. In fact, I've
never said I want people to kill with them. I'm just saying that if anyone
DOES fight I think swords are best - NOT more acceptable - best. Best as in
it gives everyone involved a fighting chance. For the most part it would just
be a matter of self-esteem, confidence, and honor that you could use it. Plus
it'd be nice for relaxation to have a spar with a friend using blunted
weapons.

<<As I've explained to my teenaged son (who, coincidently, talks a lot like
you), training and practicing with deadly weapons implies a willingness to use
them -- to
kill. Killing isn't any nicer with old weapons than with new, I promise you.>>
What is this age thing with everyone? For all you know I could be 27.
Willingness to use them to a certain extent. If you're being attacked, you'd
use them. Using a sword isnt about walking down the street killing everyone
you see.
"Killing isnt any nicer": I beg to differ. Would you prefer a 1 on 1 fight
with a sword that you could even possibly run away from, or would you like to
be shot down from a mile away by a man sitting in a helicopter, OR would you
like to have biological weapons stuffed in the local subway and having half
the population die agonizing deaths?
And again, swords are up close and personal and you'd need alot more nerve to
attack someone with a sword than to get angry and shoot them. Plus, what dumb
kid is going to take his daddy's sword and impale himself? Lots less likely
than accidental shootings.

<<By the way, guns are not a danger "if some psycho with an M16 goes
ape-shit in the Forum" if some citizen has one with which to stop your
"psycho.">>
Oh so you're saying you'd like a firefight in a populated area. If we dont
allow guns, we wouldnt allow guns. So if our citizens dont have them, then
the criminals wont have them. And who says we wont have a police force that
DOES have guns?


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:31:21 EST

<<By the way, guns are not a danger "if some psycho with an M16 goes
ape-shit in the Forum" if some citizen has one with which to stop your
"psycho.">>

Oh by the way, if someone had an M16 in an area with thousands of people, I
dont think it would be a good situation either way. In the 10 seconds it
takes for someone to see whats going on, hundreds of people could be dead.
And you're right, this is a rather grisly topic and I'd appreciate finding
something else to talk about.


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:33:03 EST

I misplaced some words there, was thinking too fast. "First of all it takes
no courage to kill with a sword" should be gun instead of sword.

> > Thats exactly the point. It shouldn't be a simple matter of pointing and
> > shooting to kill.
>
> > First of all it takes no courage to kill with a sword,
>
> ??????
>
> > and
> > second it takes no skill.
>
> ??????


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:36:34 EST

I dont care for that attitude. I may have some different ideas but at least I
take the time to listen to people. And I dont start saying "oh you're a
child" or "I dont want to listen to this, let someone more tolerant deal with
you". Thats openly insulting and it has no place in a response to someones
opinions. How would you like it if I started calling you a bad parent or that
your views are archaic or that if you can't handle talking about fighting in
emails that you have some serious problems? I'm not saying those things and
the above insults are NOT meant to be towards you, so please leave out the
insults from your posts.

<<No hard feelings, but I give up. I won't intrude into your
stream-of-consciousness messages any more. I'll leave it to younger,
kinder, more tolerant and patient people like Venator to respond to you.
Bona Fortuna, Frigus.>>


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:38:50 EST

<<No hard feelings, but I give up. I won't intrude into your
stream-of-consciousness messages any more. I'll leave it to younger,
kinder, more tolerant and patient people like Venator to respond to you.
Bona Fortuna, Frigus.>>

In my opinion the views that some people have that people are naturally rotten
is one of the reasons for the decay of society. People don't just get born
thinking "Oh I want to kill someone". They aren't happy either because they
are poor, they were abused, etc. No I'm not saying that everything people do
is because of some past trouble and that everything has to be picked apart by
psychologists, but I'm just saying that people aren't naturally "evil".


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:43:57 EST

<>

I'm not sure about the insult - I've read too many posts at this point to
remember it. I dont have any grudge against you for whatever you said, if you
did in fact say something. Asking my age could have been that insult, since
in a way it implies that you think I'm acting like a child...but still doesnt
really bother me.

<<My second puzlement is why, Cassius' comment about Nova Roma's future
plans is disappointing, unles you have not read or understood what our
Home Page says and what is reflected in our Constitution. I do not
agree that it is disappointing at all, but rather something thrilling to
look forward to.>>

I misunderstood what he was trying to say. I spoke to Cassius via Instant
Messages and now I understand his point of view and am in no way disappointed.

<<You are not the only one who has been doing research in the efforts to
find a suitable place for our World Office. I do not see that the U.S.
is a joke as the founding place of New Rome, as someone else has said.
The other nations of the world were as free as we to found the
micro-nation, but we did it. If others think Americans are a joke, look
around you at who for the last 5 decades has stood "guardian at the
gate" with our sister nations against the disruptors, and who have in
recent years have given money, blood, sweat and tears to help the
starving and sick of the world. There have been mistakes made <of
course> for it is said that they who do nothing make no mistakes. I had
the utmost pride to be a part of all that, and in every port, in every
country there were always those hard-working men and women who were glad
to shake our hands and thank us.>>

I'm not the one that thinks America is bad, just to straighten that up.

<<Ride out a hurricane at sea, stand two night watches back to back,
because your relief is vomiting his guts up with Asian Flu, take time
away from your family, and learn something of value about the world not
out of books, give the Nova Roma it's due and follow the mission of the
institution. Help in a constructive way, make a Proposal well thought
out, share an idea, with how will we accomplish it. There is not yet a
concurrence within Nova Roma about how funds shall be raised in the
future, much less what kind of quartz paving stones our streets will be
made of. Those decisions will be made when it is appropriate, meanwhile
how about some help down here on terra firma with a little bit of
commitment, and good old fashioned hard work concerning the things that
need to be done?>>

Sheesh where did all that come from? What have I done to you? I have stated
multiple times that the city ideas were just my opinions and I was looking to
see how others felt about them. I wasnt meaning to put anyone down or impose
my views. I just thought a few of my ideas might go over well. As for the
help, tell me what you need and I'll try to do it.


Subject:	Writing Style
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:08:02 EST

I'd just like to explain something. I have been told on numerous occasions
that I have an emotional writing style. I'm usually not really upset when I
appear to be, and sometimes come across as just blurting things out.

I speak rather bluntly and just get all my opinions out rather than wording
them so others find them more pleasing. This has caused quite a few problems
as I've noticed and in the future I will take more time to consider how my
messages appear to others.


Subject:	greetings
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:02:57 EST

most of you will have this link but for those that dont here it is
<A HREF="<a href="http://myron.sjsu.edu/romeweb/ROMARMY/equip.htm">The" target="_top" >http://myron.sjsu.edu/romeweb/ROMARMY/equip.htm">The</a> Roman Army - A
legionary's Basic Equipment</A>


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:24:48 -0800


Subject:	Re: Criminals
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:31:01 -0800

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
> Usually criminals are only criminals because they aren't happy.

Ok what sociological study are you basing this judgement on? Have you done
research on criminal behavor or are you in progress. What hypothesis have you
drawn and how are you testing your theory? Many sociologists have researched
this subject. That is not always the case. Besides, we can go back to the
question, of what is happy?

Beyond the point, none of us can ignore the technological advances that Western
Civilization has made over the last 1500 years. Crime will always be with us,
all we can attempt to do is to deter it. Sorry swords wont do it today, just
like swords couldnt end crime in the Roman Republic and Empire. Face the facts,
we will need to do some serious city planning once we are seriously considering
getting land for a capital.

> You usually don't see alot of billionare bank-robbers. I think in a city that
> has activities to keep people occupied, an atmosphere in which everyone is
> having a good time or at least isnt having a BAD time, theres not going to be
> much crime.

Just like there is a correlation in the drop of crime when the sales of ice cream
go up. You can make a correlation on just about anything. The question you need
to ask yourself is how strong is the corelation?

Sorry almost ten years of college edcuation just came spilling out.

I am off the Soapbox now!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We are proud as punch of our new web site!
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Subject:	Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:35:36 EST

Regarding Christians and Lions

Heres an article I found on the internet..

The persecution of Christians by the Roman Government was not a consistent
policy that was enforced the same way by every Roman provincial governor or
government official or even by different emperors. Most of the time,
Christians were tolerated but were viewed as strange and somewhat antisocial
by most of the Roman people.

Because the Roman gods were actually a part of the state religion, and it was
thought that they must be worshipped regularly in order for the Romans to have
victory in war and prosperity at home, it was considered a roman's patriotic
duty to sacrifice regularly to Jupiter, Mars, Juno, Vesta, and leave offerings
out for the household gods, the Lares and Penates. The Christians, on the
other hand, believed in one God and worship Him in three persons, Father, Son,
and Holy Ghost. Making sacrifice to Jupiter or Poseidon was (and still is)
abhorrent to a Christian. Because the Romans believed that the favor of the
gods was necessary to the security of the state, the Christians were believed
to be not only impious and anti-religious but unpatriotic as well. In
addition, many Christians refused to serve in the army because they might have
to kill other human beings and thus violate the commandments of Christ.
Similarly, some Christians refused to hold government posts, engage in
commerce, or loan money because they saw these activities as lending approval
to a corrupt earthly system. They believed that the only true empire was in
heaven. As a result, the Roman government saw fit to persecute the Christians
from time to time, especially during unsettled periods when a popular reform
movement arose to return to the old Roman ways and values. Most Roman
magistrates believed themselves to be enlightened and the government they
represented to be merciful. and gave the Christians many opportunities to
renounce their "strange unpatriotic beliefs" before condemning Christians to
death in the arena or by formal execution. They absolutely could not
understand why a Christian would choose a shameful, agonizing public death
over being reinstated as a full citizen with all privileges when all the
person needed to do was make a sacrifice for the health of the emperor or even
just sprinkle a little incense over a lighted altar. The crowds who came to
witness the games were a different matter altogether. Sometimes they became
worked up into a frenzy of hate. They considered the Christians to be
antisocial scum and clamored for a painful death for them in the arena, being
mauled and torn apart by wild beasts or forced to fight gladiators who killed
them for a public spectacle.

The most famous of the Christian persecutions was under Nero. A disastrous
fire destroyed much of Rome in the year A. D. 64. Somehow, a rumor started
circulating that Nero himself started the fire in order to rebuild the city.
It was well-known that Nero considered much of Rome ugly and squalid. Whether
or not he had any part in setting the fire is still being debated to this day,
but the rumors started to spread and might become a threat to Nero's reign and
life if left unchecked. He therefore decided to blame the antisocial and
subversive Christians for starting the fire. after all, didn't they hold
worship services underground in the city tombs known as catacombs? To make
sure he was believed in accusing the Christians of setting the fire, he had
many of them killed. Some were crucified in the arena, others thrown to wild
animals, and still others were burned alive as living torches to light Nero's
garden at his Golden House. St. Peter died during the Neronian persecutions.
Because of this most well known persecution, Nero was written into history as
one of the most depraved and cruel of the Roman emperors.

Persecutions were renewed under Septimius Severus, Trajan Decius, Valerian,
Gallienus, and Diocletian. The Second Century emperor Trajan instructed one of
his provincial governors, Pliny the Younger, to not actively seek out
Christians who were in violation of the law. Nevertheless, some Christians
desired the crown of martyrdom so greatly that they openly proclaimed their
faith. Some, but not very many, were condemned to death under Trajan. Severus
Alexander and his mother, Julia Mamaea, were interested in all gods,
philosophies, and religions. It is said that Severus Alexander actually kept a
statue of Jesus amongst the statues of other gods in his own personal shrine.

Persecutions were particularly acute under Decius and Diocletian. These
emperors sought to revive worship of the old Roman gods and bring back a
respect for ancient custom. After a particularly intense period of persecution
under Diocletian, Christians were finally given the legal right to worship as
they pleased under the Edict of Milan, issued in A. D. 313 by Constantine I.
Seventy five years later, Christianity had become so influential and
Christians had such power that the emperor Gratian had the ancient statue of
Victory removed from the Roman Senate House on the insistence of the very
powerful and influential Archbishop Ambrose of Milan.


Subject:	(no subject)
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:43:16 EST

<A HREF="<a href="http://www.klio.net/forum/index.html">Welcome" target="_top" >http://www.klio.net/forum/index.html">Welcome</a> to KLIO: Home of
Logomancy, ByrenLee Press, and much more!</A>
<A HREF="<a href="http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nantiq/arma/welc/beginner/page01.htm" target="_top" >http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nantiq/arma/welc/beginner/page01.htm</a>>
ARMAMENTARIVM: Beginner's Guide - Introduction</A>
more for you to see if you have not already found these.


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:08:01 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/9/99 7:51:29 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< Fine, carry a gun if you want, but I think sword fighting should be
commonly taught as well as hand-to-hand combat.>>

Salvete!
In 1986 at an SCA event in Griffin Park I was escorting a young lady along the
park path to her tent. On the way we were intercepted by a young black man
waving a 6" switchblade and demanding our money. (The fact we were in costume
didn't register apparently.) I told him our tunics don't have pockets and
told him to **** off! Not prudent behavior true, I had fought in the lists
that day, and perhaps that last rattan sword blow had scrabbled my reason. He
came at me so fast had I been right handed he would have stabbed me. However
since I was left handed I drew my sword from the right side of my body. I was
carrying a standard Spatula, forged by Kirby, an SCA armorer. It was a real
edged and pointed sword modeled after the Byzantine model which had a 35"
blade on a 6" hilt. He ran right into my crosscut. With luck more then any
skill I sliced him across the chest. Blood spurted. My lady screamed! He
dropped the knife and ran. People gathered. My liege wanted to call the
police, the King of the West talked him out of it. He felt that if the guy
returned with help, the fighters of the event could handle it. My point is
today if this would have happened, we would have cleared out quickly. Back
then we'd be facing knives, bats and target pistols.
Today we'd be facing semiautomatic weapons. A terrible match for a sword.
While I admire your sentiments about an NR seat of government, they have
little place in today's current reality. I'm sorry. That is the way I see
it.
Valete!
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:14:13 EST

In a message dated 3/9/99 6:44:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> write--------r>
<< If I may. I have participated in the SCA for the better part of 25
years. The
persona I portray, Alasdair Morgan of Clan Gunn, is a mercenary
longbowman,
bodyguard, blacksmith and "jack o' many trades". I try to keep in
practice in all Alasdair's skills so
my portrayal is as authentic as possible. I shoot a longbow and make my
own
archery tackle: bows, arrows, points, quiver, armguard, costumes,
knives, boots, jewelry, etceteras... >>
Ave Venator!
What draw is your bow? What's it's killing range against plate and splinted
mail?
How many arrows can you loose fairly accurately?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Vale
Q. Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 04:50:06 -0800 (PST)

My comment after watching the third hour:

"The more one watches, the less that meets the eye."

Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:01:47 -0800 (PST)

Regarding the use of Christians as streetlamps, a history teacher of mine
commented, "The practice didn't last. Christians really don't burn very
well, and what a waste of good olive oil!"

Now looking at other scores around the Empire, at halftime in the Flavian
Colosseum in Rome it's Lions 42, Christians 0.

Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:40:30 EST

In a message dated 99-03-09 17:36:44 EST, you write:

> What I envision is not necessarily a printed-out mag probably because its
> not
> really news and things that have happened recently.

Ummm, speaking of history, we have pictures now and will be scaning them and I
will be adding Lapis' information and picture to the web site (which, BTW, is
STILL the only one of it's kind on the WWW). Someday I will get around to
sharing the address and everything (yup, I'm still a bit mad, which is why I
pulled the site in the first place).

Should I send a disk to the Eagle with a birth announcement?

Crys (lovin this mommy thang!!!)


Subject:	Writing Style / Speak Freely
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:57:29 EST

In a message dated 99-03-10 01:08:33 EST, you write:

> I speak rather bluntly and just get all my opinions out rather than wording
> them so others find them more pleasing. This has caused quite a few
> problems
> as I've noticed and in the future I will take more time to consider how my
> messages appear to others.

Which reminds me.............

Time for another unpaid, non-political advertisement:

I would, once again like to invite the openminded to join the Nova Roma Back
Alley. In the Alley, you can speak freely and about any topic you like
without fear of reprecussion. The list is privately owned by yours truly and
cannot be joined by just anyone. In order to join you must email me and be
added to the list.

The Alley couldn't be LESS politically correct, trust me, we have tried!!!

If you are interested in joining us, please email me and I will see about
adding you to the list (yup, it's an exclusive list. Some may never be
allowed on).

Join the Back Alley today (we're growing by leaps and bounds)

My pathetic ego trip signature
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina (Owner/Founder of the NR Back Alley and Mother to
the First Born Nova Roman)


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:51:50 -0600

Salve Q. Fabius, Salus et Fortuna!

The bow I currently use is 55# at a 30" draw. I use clothyard cedar shafts,
hardwood footed with goose feather fletch and self nocks. For target tips I do
use commercial glue-on field points.

I have forged bodkin points and made war arrows. These too are 36" cedar
shafts, but are thicker and heavier than my target arrows.

In volley fire, I can loose, starting with an arrow at full draw, 8 or 9 arrows
per minute. For aimed fire at a target 25 yards away, my RoF goes down to (from
full draw) 4 or 5 per minute.

I have done some penetration tests with my bow and the war arrows. I think my
points were stronger than period bodkins as we have better metallurgy these
days, and even the cheaper grades of steel take a better temper.

All armor (backed by an arming tunic made from a moving quilt) was placed over a
torso model my shield brother and I built: white oak staves for ribs, covered
and backed by non-hardening clay to simulate the density of the human body. The
mannaquin was mounted on a rocking base to simulate some of the natural "give."
This testing was conducted 14 years ago, when my shoulders were younger and much
stronger. The bow I had then was 80# at 30" draw.

Full Plate: 16 gague cold rolled steel breastplate. 50 yds. minor scratches.
26 yds deep dent with just the tip breaking through. 18 yds, full penetration.

Splinted mail: 18 gague CRS lames over 3/16" oak tanned leather. Similar
results when hitting square on steel. Penetration occured at 37 yds when a
bodkin met leather.

Chainmail: 1/14" wire of 5/16 ID - 4 in 1 pattern. Penetration at 50 yards
consistently.

Hardened Leather: Similar results to above.

Shield: 1/2" thick, 2 layers of 3-ply plywood. This was in the shape of a
curved scutum.
The arrow stuck in at 50 yds. Minor penetration at 41 yds. Full penetration of
the head at 33 yds. Over half the shaft going through at 17 yds.

This is the best I can do from the notes I did keep from that day. Oliver and I
performed this testing at a Household meeting of our Free Company, which was
going to take the SCA by storm, but life got in the way.

I'm not very well known outside of my friends and acquaintences in the SCA.
I've kept a low profile, except when I was founding Seneschal of a Shire in
northwest Florida and then was Baronial Seneschal in Omaha, NE. (Where I was
also the Master of the Armorer's Guild.) I finally received an AoA in September
of 1988 (after almost 13 1/2 years participation - but I have a friend who
finally got a AoA after almost 22 years.)

Nota Bene: For those in the audience unfamiliar with the Society for Creative
Anachronism, particularly the awards structure. AoA = Award of Arms. Everyone
in the SCA is presumed to be of noble birth and can have a personal device (coat
of arms in the common parlance.) Your device is not called Arms until you have
the basic Award. This is usually given by the reigning Monarch after people
recommend you to Their Majesty. Sometimes people will chug along for years and
years, quietly helping or crafting or performing, and receive no recognition for
their efforts. Some go away disappointed and disillusioned, most of us just
shrug and continue doing what we love.

I've been inactive the past few years in the SCA because I had come off of
almost a full decade as an officer in one capacity or another. I was thickly
encrusted with carbon.

But, I'm feeling much better now!

I hope this is of some use.

-- Venator et Alasdair

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> Ave Venator!
> What draw is your bow? What's it's killing range against plate and splinted
> mail?
> How many arrows can you loose fairly accurately?
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> Vale
> Q. Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:16:15 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/9/99 4:28:31 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< As for "Considering that you're the one
looking to build a Nova Roma city with some cement from a hardware store...",
I've been putting much more effort into it than that. I've got city design
plans, getting estimates on land costs and costs of quartz tiles for the
streets, etc. Consulted an architect and researched alot of the things in
the
past that went over big (ie. hanging gardens). >>

Yes...ok...but like I said to you in IM, this is not something that's going to
happen anytime soon. It is definately a long term goal, but not something we
can start to plan today.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:18:25 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/9/99 4:30:41 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< Dont get ticked at me for something I didnt say.
Thats the second email now that you've responded to the wrong person. I'm
getting a bit tired of this. >>

The problem comes from when someone pastes a response to someone else's
response, the responder's name appears in the text. It gets confusing.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:28:54 EST

In a message dated 3/9/99 7:24:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< So, in Nova Roma, Plebeians have all of the advantages they enjoyed in the
late Republic, and apparently none of the disadvantages they suffered in the
early history of Rome. Am I wrong in saying that the only "advantage" to
being a Patrician in Nova Roma is in the prestige with which history has
endowed that appellation? >>

Nope...that's basically it. Which is why I have questioned the need to keep
class distinctions in NR.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:34:18 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/9/99 8:29:22 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
writes:

<< h but isn't it the roman people who decide the myths? shall we make up a
myth on our own, citizens, that's how it works, yes? I say it's our duty,
not
the government of Nova Roma to make up a myth. that means plebes and
citizentry. so go ahead! circulate your myths and see who has the best of
them, or the most roman for that matter!
>>

I still say 86 the creation myth thing. I, for one, take my faith in the Gods
a little too seriously to just "make something up". Let's just say that the
founders were inspired by their love of Rome and her Deities to revive an
interest in her culture.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:39:14 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/9/99 8:44:21 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
writes:

<< heh. i'd certaintly like to hear it. How about something involving
Jupitor?
Jupitor gave a vision to the founders, of a new Rome, one with the same
grandeur and vision of a better future, then he showed them the world as it
could be and showed them their ultimate destiney. with this the founders set
off to set up there new nations based on the principles taught by Jupitor,
and
adopted teh old ways and gods for those who choose the path to appreciate.
sounds like a legend to me >>

And then the Tooth Fairy appeared and said "Woh to thee who keepeth a hanging
tooth". To which the Founders plucked every last tooth from their heads and
handed them over to the good fairy (no...not me!) in exchange for some
commercial capital to build that city Temale keeps talking about.

Sorry to be so abnoxious about this, but let's not belittle the Religio Romana
by creating a "myth". As someone said...Rome already has a creation story in
Romulus and Remus. NR considers itself the spiritual descendents of the
Romans. We should not try to create another story of why we are here and what
we are doing.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Capers, pine nuts and Caesar
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:40:49 EST

In a message dated 3/9/99 9:44:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> write--------r>
<< One source I read about the history of
Italian
cooking states that many modern forms of pasta would be recognized by
the
late-period Romans. >>

Hmmm...ok....thanks Venator. Do you have the name of that source? This is
the first I've heard of it.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Political scapegoat in Judea (was power and glory)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:45:47 EST

In a message dated 3/9/99 11:42:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Oh good. Finally, someone who may be able to answer this question.
I understand that Jesus was the end result of his mother, a temple tapestry
worker, being raped by a Roman soldier and quickly married off to make
the child legitimate and spare the family any repercussions. I've forgotten
the source of this. Have you come across that in any research? >>

You Go Girl! : )

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:04:44 -0000

Salvete omnes

Are you kidding? Are you kidding with those that work hard to make Nova Roma
grow as a serious micronation?
Now you want to fabricate a myth? I simply cannot answer this. It's too
ridiculous. Please, dedicate yourselves seriously, for Nova Roma does not
need any clowns (well, maybe in the future when we have more children to
entertain).
Work hard. Increase the Web ring... But please, don't post ridiculous
emails. I'm simply tired of this.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:01:10 EST

This is enlightening.

It is important to realize that persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire
had more to do with political reasons than spiritual ones. The Romans were
very tolerant of other faiths. So tolerant that the Jews were excused from
offering the civil sacrifices because their native religion forbade it.

But Christians (in Roman eyes) were not Jews. They were Romans. One day
they'd have no problem offering a sacrifice, and then next week after
converting to Christianity, they would refuse. This seemed more akin to
treason than spiritual belief.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:02:00 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 7:49:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< "The more one watches, the less that meets the eye." >>

I fell asleep during last nights last episode. It just bored me after awhile.

--Dexippus


Subject:	In Nomine Patris
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:44:03 -0500

Salvete Marce Martiane et alii

That's a great name that you have chosen. For some reason, I could never
remember your praenomen or nomen before; I don't think that I'll have any
trouble at all remembering this one :).

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

-----Original Message-----
From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Cc: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=219166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >c--------us622@--------</--------;; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=014158113165021154015057190036129" >bc--------@t...</--------;
Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 7:17 PM
Subject: [novaroma] In Nomine Patris

>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Until now, I have been going by the nomen Mala. I chose this because it is


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:53:33 -0500

Salvete Marce Martiane et alii

-
>early history of Rome. Am I wrong in saying that the only "advantage" to
>being a Patrician in Nova Roma is in the prestige with which history has
>endowed that appellation?

There are a couple of priestly positions that can be held by patricians
only. Marce Cassi, Luci Equiti, anyone care to remind us just which those
are? One is the Rex Sacrorum, right?

Then, since these class distinctions reflect the
>traditions in Roma Antiqua, and seem to materially harm or diminish no one
>in Nova Roma, in the absence of a compelling argument to change the present
>arrangement, I am inclined to support the status quo.

I agree. The status quo is preferable to experimenting with some other
class distinctions that serve actually to divide us.
>

>Then there is Robert Heinlein's idea that only those who have honorably
>completed military service should have the right to vote. After all, if
you
>have not served the State, by what right should you demand a say in the
>affairs of the State? Given the military traditions and virtues of Roma
>Antiqua, perhaps there are some in Nova Roma who would want to consider
this
>idea.

I hope not. If we were a macronation with territory to defend, I might see
some sense in this sort of prerequisite. But, given the nature of Nova
Roma, such a prerequisite would be nothing short of absurd.

I like your closing paragraphs so much that I am compelled to leave them
here intact:

>
>There are all kinds of schemes one can dream up the empower some and
>disenfranchise others. In Roma Antiqua, voting was conducted by tribes,
>each having one vote. Citizens of the lower classes were all herded
>together into a few tribes, while disproportionate number of tribes
>encompassing the opulent few of the Senatorial and Equestrian orders
assured
>them of political control. I trust that it is the intention of our
>magistrates to assign the gentes to centuries and tribes in as equitable a
>manner as possible, for I daresay that we, the citizens of Nova Roma, shall
>stand for nothing less.
>
>Quirites, is it not self-evident that we are a self-selected body of
>Citizens, that we have come together as Citizens of Nova Roma because we
>have an interest in one or more facets of the culture of Roma Antiqua?
>Would it be unreasonable for us to take it on faith that, while some may
>have come here possessing knowledge to teach, we are all here to learn?
Are
>we not all of us students of Rome? If there are any who are not, they will
>inevitably leave our Republic. Thus they will not vote. Thus we need
apply
>no litmus test.
>
>Let us take this journey together. Let us not devise ways to divide
ourselves.

So true.
>
>May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:41:19 -0500

Salvete Dexippe et alii

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>It is important to realize that persecution of Christians in the Roman
Empire
>had more to do with political reasons than spiritual ones. The Romans were
>very tolerant of other faiths. So tolerant that the Jews were excused from
>offering the civil sacrifices because their native religion forbade it.

Good point. I do believe, though, that the Romans and Jews did not "get
along" very well at certain points in history: Titus son of Vespasian
invaded Jerusalem to put down a revolt, right? And within a century there
was, I believe, another revolt that required Roman military intervention,
resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths in Judea.

Is it true that Hadrian, one of the most Cosmopolitan, open-minded Roman
emperors, during one of his long tours of the provinces, visited Judea and
decreed that a temple should be built to Jupiter on the site of the old
temple destroyed by Titus? And that this touched off another uprising?

If this is the case, I think that it presents a good illustration of a line
that the Romans, despite their relative openness to various religions, could
not cross: a religion that precluded the worship of the Roman gods was
repugnant to the Romans, and they did not go very far to hide this. On the
other hand, a monotheistic religion that demands devotion to one god and
only that particular god would tend, I think, to make in the eyes of its
adherents any religion imposing a different god(s) equally repugnant.
>
>But Christians (in Roman eyes) were not Jews. They were Romans.

Well, I would postulate that early Christians (let's say 1st century AD)
were basically adherents to one particular branch of Judaism. Actually,
this can be said of all Christians throughout history.

One day
>they'd have no problem offering a sacrifice, and then next week after
>converting to Christianity, they would refuse. This seemed more akin to
>treason than spiritual belief.

True. I think that it's impossible to divide politics from religion in the
classical or imperial Roman contexts. The "certification" of offering
sacrifices imposed by Diocletian was aimed, I believe, at rooting out
monotheists who were treasonous in willfully resisting recognition of the
Roman gods.
>
>--Dexippus
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:03:26 -0800

>
> >But Christians (in Roman eyes) were not Jews. They were Romans.
>
> Well, I would postulate that early Christians (let's say 1st century AD)
> were basically adherents to one particular branch of Judaism. Actually,
> this can be said of all Christians throughout history.
>

While I tend to agree with that.....let me point out that after Paul's
missionary journeys it didnt take long to Gentiles (non-Jews) to surpass Jews in
membership of that new faith. Yes, early along that was the case, but I would
say by the time of Nero's persecuation there were more Non Jews in the faith.

You must remember, Jews looked for a Messiah who they thought was a political
leader, since Alexander the Great, that was the main thought in the minds of All
Nationalistic Jews. During the Hasmonean Dynasty that subsided but resurfaced
after Pompeius Magnus incorporated that kingdom into Rome. But, once Jesus was
killed, many Jews just looked forward to the next would be Messiah. Because
their ideas of a Messiah would be a political leader, much like David, the King
who was supposed to be related to the Messiah.

It is becuase of that view, IMHO that most Jews rejected Jesus. Now even today
Many Jews still look forward to the advent of the Messiah much like they did in
the past. I know my grandmother does and other members on my mother's side of
the family.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:09:24 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 12:47:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

<< If this is the case, I think that it presents a good illustration of a line
that the Romans, despite their relative openness to various religions, could
not cross: a religion that precluded the worship of the Roman gods was
repugnant to the Romans, and they did not go very far to hide this. On the
other hand, a monotheistic religion that demands devotion to one god and
only that particular god would tend, I think, to make in the eyes of its
adherents any religion imposing a different god(s) equally repugnant. >>

True. And I tend to think it is more in the lines that the Romans believed in
the cosmopolitanism of the Gods. They made habbit of inviting the deities of
conquered lands to Rome. From the Roman perspective, why shouldn't there be a
Temple to Jupiter in Judea. From a Jewish perspective, this is a no-no. But
surely there were Roman Pagans living in Judea (a province of the Empire) and
by right the should have a place of worship also. I think the tensions were
more about mis-understandings than deliberate attempts at pissing off the
other group.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:15:06 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 1:04:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< You must remember, Jews looked for a Messiah who they thought was a
political
leader, since Alexander the Great, that was the main thought in the minds of
All
Nationalistic Jews. During the Hasmonean Dynasty that subsided but
resurfaced
after Pompeius Magnus incorporated that kingdom into Rome. But, once Jesus
was
killed, many Jews just looked forward to the next would be Messiah. Because
their ideas of a Messiah would be a political leader, much like David, the
King
who was supposed to be related to the Messiah.

It is becuase of that view, IMHO that most Jews rejected Jesus. >>

I would tend to believe that is why the Apostles began converting non-
Jews...because the Jews were less than interested in believing that Jesus was
their Messiah.

Top that off with the fact that Paul covered the new faith with so much Pagan
icing that it was nearly palatable as just another cult to the non-jews, it
was more widely received.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:19:38 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 10:09:46 AM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
writes:

<< From a Jewish perspective, this is a no-no. But surely there were Roman
Pagans living in Judea (a province of the Empire) and by right the should have
a place of worship also. I think the tensions were more about
misunderstandings than deliberate attempts at pissing off the other group.
>>

You are right Dex. The pagan temples were in Caesaria, the capital of Judea.
QFM


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:51:50 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 7:01:27 AM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
writes:

<< The Romans were
very tolerant of other faiths. So tolerant that the Jews were excused from
offering the civil sacrifices because their native religion forbade it. >>
The Jewish religion was protected under treaty by the Lex of Ancient Religion.
This meant that religions that predated Rome were allowed to exist, and their
people protected to worship it. Caligula wanted to change this, by putting
his own statue in the "Holy of Holies" in the Temple. Herod Agrippa and the
Legate of Syria Publius Petronius stalled, delayed and obstructed as long a
possible hoping for a miracle.
They got one. Caligula was assassinated.
Claudius restored the Lex, and until the coming of the Zelots, in 66, Judea
was quiet.

Now the Christian sect was first protected by Ancient Religion law since it
was perceived as a Jewish offshoot. But When Simon of Tarsus came into the
picture that changed. The religion was discovered not to be an offshoot but a
hybrid. And hybrids were not protected. Since it wasn't protected, it had to
conform to Roman laws of worship. Of course there was enough Jewish elements
left to make this request impossible. And that is where the trouble really
began.
Vale
Q. Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:59:37 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 4:49:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< The more one watches, the less that meets the eye >>
I got tired of that stupid tone poem, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum
De Dum De Dum Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum De Dum Dum,
Dum. Over and over and over ... ad nauseam

QM


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:00:43 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 1:59:48 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< I got tired of that stupid tone poem, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum
Dum
De Dum De Dum Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum De Dum Dum,
Dum. Over and over and over ... ad nauseam >>

ROFLMAO...I started to hear it in my dreams! : )

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:03:01 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 5:01:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< Now looking at other scores around the Empire, at half-time in the Flavian
Colosseum in Rome it's Lions 42, Christians 0.>>

I use to tell my classes that the lions really didn't want to eat humans.
They mauled
them instead.
QFM


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:05:23 -0800

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 3/10/99 5:01:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
> writes:
>
> << Now looking at other scores around the Empire, at half-time in the Flavian
> Colosseum in Rome it's Lions 42, Christians 0.>>
>
> I use to tell my classes that the lions really didn't want to eat humans.
> They mauled
> them instead.
> QFM
>

Oh I bet that was comforting for them to know!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come check out our brand new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:15:07 -0500 (EST)

Doesn't this Mauling / Eating situation depend to some degree upon the
preparation of the animals? I can't believe that the Aedile of the
particulr "games" would allow the cats to be fed prior to the main show
for fear of a failure of some kind in the arena. This I think would
have had an effect on the cats. The stories about man-eaters in Africa
and India in more recent years seems to bear out the fact that big cats
do deveop an enthusiasm for human meat either because of the taste or
because of the ease of capture, or maybe a little of both.

My point is that those who maintained the dungeons and the animal cages
would have been aware of these things and under strict orders not to
allow "something stupid" to happen.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:23:06 EST

<<Are you kidding? Are you kidding with those that work hard to make Nova Roma
grow as a serious micronation?
Now you want to fabricate a myth? I simply cannot answer this. It's too
ridiculous. Please, dedicate yourselves seriously, for Nova Roma does not
need any clowns (well, maybe in the future when we have more children to
entertain). Work hard. Increase the Web ring... But please, don't post
ridiculous
emails. I'm simply tired of this.>>

Many people actually found the myth idea to be good. I thought it would be
fitting. But many people have since disagreed and I've withdrawn the idea. I
do NOT however believe the idea was "ridiculous", and I don't appreciate you
saying I should "dedicate yourselves seriously, for Nova Roma does not need
any clowns". I don't see how increasing the damn web ring is considered hard
work. Give me some ideas for something to do. If you don't like the idea,
come up with something better. And for the LAST FUCKIN TIME DONT INSULT ME!
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN IDEA JUST SAY SO!

"I came, I saw, I left."
-Scriptus Frigus Novus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:37:16 EST

<<You must remember, Jews looked for a Messiah who they thought was a
political
leader, since Alexander the Great, that was the main thought in the minds of
All
Nationalistic Jews. During the Hasmonean Dynasty that subsided but
resurfaced
after Pompeius Magnus incorporated that kingdom into Rome. But, once Jesus
was
killed, many Jews just looked forward to the next would be Messiah. Because
their ideas of a Messiah would be a political leader, much like David, the
King
who was supposed to be related to the Messiah.>>

Christianity is a terrible religion, at least in my view. I even consider
myself a teeeeeeny bit Christian (on the days I decide to believe in god) but
the religion is just depressing. You're a sinner just for being BORN. And
then you have the death of God's son on your conscience because he died for
YOUR SINS.

I dont want a god that sends his own son to die, or a god that I can't see, or
a god that is kind and merciful but leaves your life on earth to be cruddy.
WHAT I WANT: Is a god that crushes his enemies!!! ::starts speaking louder
and louder:: WHO PAINTS THE WAY TO THE AFTERLIFE IN THE BLOOD OF HIS
ENEMIES!! HE FEEDS HIS PEOPLE WITH BREAD MADE FROM THEIR CRUSHED BONES!

"I came, I saw, I left."
-Scriptus Frigus Novus


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:37:12 -0800

Ok I think we need a cooling period.....this is getting a bit too heated....At
least he is coming up with ideas. Lets not alienate the opinions of our citizens
folks. It is our citizens that are the heart of our MicroNation. We all have
different ideas...and different opinions. Lets not alienate the ideas of our
citizens. :) and in the words of Dex, and Rodney King, "Can we all just get
along?"

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
> <<Are you kidding? Are you kidding with those that work hard to make Nova Roma
> grow as a serious micronation?
> Now you want to fabricate a myth? I simply cannot answer this. It's too
> ridiculous. Please, dedicate yourselves seriously, for Nova Roma does not
> need any clowns (well, maybe in the future when we have more children to
> entertain). Work hard. Increase the Web ring... But please, don't post
> ridiculous
> emails. I'm simply tired of this.>>
>
> Many people actually found the myth idea to be good. I thought it would be
> fitting. But many people have since disagreed and I've withdrawn the idea. I
> do NOT however believe the idea was "ridiculous", and I don't appreciate you
> saying I should "dedicate yourselves seriously, for Nova Roma does not need
> any clowns". I don't see how increasing the damn web ring is considered hard
> work. Give me some ideas for something to do. If you don't like the idea,
> come up with something better. And for the LAST FUCKIN TIME DONT INSULT ME!
> IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN IDEA JUST SAY SO!
>
> "I came, I saw, I left."
> -Scriptus Frigus Novus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We are proud as punch of our new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:37:49 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 11:15:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
<< can't believe that the Aedile of the particular "games" would allow the
cats to be fed prior to the main show for fear of a failure of some kind in
the arena. This I think would have had an effect on the cats.... My point is
that those who maintained the dungeons and the animal cages would have been
aware of these things and under strict orders not to allow "something stupid"
to happen.>>
Salve
The writers of the perperiod seem to agree that it was the shyness of the
beasts that caused the problem. Once they made a kill, they wanted to drag it
off and eat it at their leisure. Of course the screaming crowd made this
impossible. Also most cats except for Jackals and Hyenas are solitary
hunters. Here they were in packs. Predators spend a lot of time in the wild
stalking prey then expending a lot of energy making the kill. Cat psychology
dictates that you must get away from the rival predators to enjoy your meal.
After a while in captivity, the cats realized that the prey wasn't going
anywhere. So they'd laze around and wait. This was boring.
And not what the crowd wanted. So the cats would just maul their victims more
out of boredom, then anything. In the North the Aediles used wolves, which
were more efficient, they hunt in packs, and a starving wolf is a good killing
machine. But the Italians liked cats. The novelty I suppose.
Vale
Q. Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:46:45 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 2:37:46 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< I dont want a god that sends his own son to die, or a god that I can't see,
or
a god that is kind and merciful but leaves your life on earth to be cruddy.
WHAT I WANT: Is a god that crushes his enemies!!! ::starts speaking louder
and louder:: WHO PAINTS THE WAY TO THE AFTERLIFE IN THE BLOOD OF HIS
ENEMIES!! HE FEEDS HIS PEOPLE WITH BREAD MADE FROM THEIR CRUSHED BONES! >>

Start burning incense to Charles Manson, sweetie!

As a fully recovered Catholic and proud Pagan, I would probably agree with
some of your ideas on Christianity. But remember that there are some
Christian citizens here in Nova Roma who may be a little frazzled at some
outspoken comments. (This main list is soooooo sensitive). For those
Christian citizens of Nova Roma, I do believe no offense was intended by
Frigus' (or whatever his name is today) comments.

"I came. I saw. I re-decorated!"

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:47:45 EST

Speaking of Power and Glory, look at ancient Assyria. Now THERES power.
Conquered most of the known world. Every freakin brick had an inscription "I
am Assurbanipal, King of Assyria."

Another quote from Assurbanipal:
"I am Assurbanipal, The Great King, the Mighty King, King of the Universe,
King of Assyria, King of the World's Four Regions, King of Kings, Unrivaled
Prince..."

And hes not just being vain. At the time he really was "king of kings".


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:49:57 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 2:38:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< Ok I think we need a cooling period.....this is getting a bit too
heated....At
least he is coming up with ideas. Lets not alienate the opinions of our
citizens
folks. It is our citizens that are the heart of our MicroNation. We all
have
different ideas...and different opinions. Lets not alienate the ideas of our
citizens. :) and in the words of Dex, and Rodney King, "Can we all just get
along?" >>

True Sulla,

But I think the point is let's not just come up with ideas. Let's come up
with working solutions. I think the question of Temale's or Frigus' age is
still on the table. And some people are beginning to question the maturity
level of the Republic of Nova Roma. There seem to be a lot of suggestions
that are just pulled out of the air without any thought of realism or respect.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:52:49 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 2:39:04 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< In the North the Aediles used wolves, which
were more efficient, they hunt in packs, and a starving wolf is a good
killing
machine. But the Italians liked cats. The novelty I suppose. >>

I'd prefer wolves. I'm allergic to cats!

I often subject visitors to my home to the vicious lickings of my Shih-Tzu.
Their never-ending cries of help as she sits upon their chests and slobbers
all over their faces. Their pleas of mercy as she sniffs their inner ear and
paws their noses!

Ah...the savagery of a Shih-Tzu!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:58:55 EST

NOTE: Catholics have no reason to believe Jesus died for their sins. THey
could just go murder someone and say a few hailmarys and they're fine :P


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:01:41 EST

<<But I think the point is let's not just come up with ideas. Let's come up
with working solutions. I think the question of Temale's or Frigus' age is
still on the table. And some people are beginning to question the maturity
level of the Republic of Nova Roma. There seem to be a lot of suggestions
that are just pulled out of the air without any thought of realism or
respect.>>

Again, working solutions to WHAT?
I'm not going to tell you my age just because I know you want to hear it :P
As for the republic's maturity level, I dont think its any lower than anywhere
else.
As for pulling stuff out of the air, thats called brainstorming.
As for realism/respect: Respect of what? You? I dont think so. And realism
- its not going to get done if I dont even give the idea, now is it?


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:07:56 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 3:01:50 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< Again, working solutions to WHAT?
I'm not going to tell you my age just because I know you want to hear it :P
As for the republic's maturity level, I dont think its any lower than
anywhere
else.
As for pulling stuff out of the air, thats called brainstorming.
As for realism/respect: Respect of what? You? I dont think so. And
realism
- its not going to get done if I dont even give the idea, now is it?
>>

Tacky Tacky! Don't start up now.

If you don't want to say your age...fine...we'll either guess you're an old
hag or an Imp.

As for brainstorming....did I hear anyone call for a session?

And by respect...I meant for the Religio. "Making something up" in terms of a
creation myth is a smack to the Religio. We just don't make stuff up!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Lions and their keepers
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:04:36 -0500

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii

MMA wrote-

Doesn't this Mauling / Eating situation depend to some degree upon the
preparation of the animals? I can't believe that the Aedile of the
particulr "games" would allow the cats to be fed prior to the main show
for fear of a failure of some kind in the arena.

I reply-
I bet that most games in Rome herself were in the purview not of an aedile
but of a praetor, or, later on, of one of the consuls. Of course, by that
time, Consuls, praetors and the rest were the Emperor's toadies. They
probably had regular bitch fights among themselves over who would have the
privilege that month of feeding the lions.

The other night as I was watching the "Power & Glory" stuff about the grisly
spectacles in the colliseum, I remarked in horror to my friend that it was
such a waste of heathy animals...

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:10:32 EST

<<And by respect...I meant for the Religio. "Making something up" in terms of
a
creation myth is a smack to the Religio. We just don't make stuff up!>>

I've given my reasons for the mythology suggestion many times. If you have a
hearing problem, its not my concern and I will not repeat myself any longer.


Subject:	Topics
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:15:08 EST

1. What are some topics that you guys would like to talk about?

2. What are some things that need to be done in Nova Roma that I could help
with?


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:29:37 -0000

>As for realism/respect: Respect of what? You? I dont think so. And
realism
>- its not going to get done if I dont even give the idea, now is it?
This is too much. I appeal to our magistrates to put an end to this guy, for
right now I would prefer to hear Marconius postings instead.

Valete omnes

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedile Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:22:18 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 3:10:47 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< I've given my reasons for the mythology suggestion many times. If you have
a
hearing problem, its not my concern and I will not repeat myself any longer.
>>

Ok...I'll just wait for the the next round of suggestion...

How about a Nova Roma circus. We can travel around the world demonstrating
gladitorial combats and how animals were treated in the Circus Maximus!!!!!!!

ok....

--Dexippus : )


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:25:02 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 3:16:45 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< 1. What are some topics that you guys would like to talk about?

2. What are some things that need to be done in Nova Roma that I could help
with? >>

Now that's brainstorming!

1. Religion! Religion! Religion! There's a lot of work that needs to be
done on the Religio. The Pontiffical College is still not halfway filled with
appointed officials and there are other Priestly positions that are vacant
besides that other citizens have applied to. But I believe the Pontiffs are
moving slowly on this due to mundane reasoning.

2. Temale...tell us what your expertise is in and perhaps we can offer some
suggestions on where you can start work.

If nothing else, you can come clean my apartment! : )

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:25:22 -0500 (EST)

Tamale:

All Right, I think that enough! You have been counciled by three
gentlemen in Nova Roma as to what is proper and what is not here. While
I am not a Catholic, I am a Christian, and your comments, your foul
language and your inability to consider others on this net has reached
the breaking point. Either rein in you "flash" ideas, or I will be
forced to appeal to the Webmaster to take partcular action. You are
dandgerously close to repeating a problem which I am sure that we all do
not wish to re-visit.

Marcus Minucus Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:26:22 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 3:21:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

<< This is too much. I appeal to our magistrates to put an end to this guy,
for
right now I would prefer to hear Marconius postings instead. >>

Oh Dear Gods! It's not that bad! Marconi was a snit...I believe Temale is
just being difficult. As he said...his writing style is rather "emotional"

--Dexippus


Subject:	Priesthoods
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:29:50 EST

In a message dated 99-03-10 15:25:18 EST, you write:

> 1. Religion! Religion! Religion! There's a lot of work that needs to be
> done on the Religio. The Pontiffical College is still not halfway filled
> with
> appointed officials and there are other Priestly positions that are vacant
> besides that other citizens have applied to. But I believe the Pontiffs
are
> moving slowly on this due to mundane reasoning.

Another reminder to me!!!!

I applied for a priesthood and am now wondering if I have the time and/or
energy to do it. I would hate to get it and then find myself overwhelmed and
have to quit. That's impolite at best.

So should I pull my application or what?

Crys


Subject:	Artists Needed
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:35:32 EST

Are there any good computer artists out there?


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:36:46 EST

<<This is too much. I appeal to our magistrates to put an end to this guy, for
right now I would prefer to hear Marconius postings instead.>>

Sheesh. Calm down.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:38:03 EST

<<How about a Nova Roma circus. We can travel around the world demonstrating
gladitorial combats and how animals were treated in the Circus
Maximus!!!!!!!>>

I know that was a joke but it gave me an idea (this idea is a half-joke). NR
gladitorial games where spectators can watch... make it like a sport.
::shrug:: There are stranger things in the world.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:39:21 EST

<<2. Temale...tell us what your expertise is in and perhaps we can offer some
suggestions on where you can start work.>>

I can do research, and other than that I'm a very good computer programmer. I
specialize in online applications (MUDs, chatrooms, ICQ-ish programs)


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:40:14 EST

<<All Right, I think that enough! You have been counciled by three
gentlemen in Nova Roma as to what is proper and what is not here. While
I am not a Catholic, I am a Christian, and your comments, your foul
language and your inability to consider others on this net has reached
the breaking point. Either rein in you "flash" ideas, or I will be
forced to appeal to the Webmaster to take partcular action. You are
dandgerously close to repeating a problem which I am sure that we all do
not wish to re-visit.>>

What, we cant curse on this list?


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:50:13 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 3:41:14 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< What, we cant curse on this list? >>

Nope...this list is way too sensitive. Join the Back Alley list and you can
curse all you want! : )

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:56:39 -0500

>dandgerously close to repeating a problem which I am sure that we all do
>not wish to re-visit.>>
>
>What, we cant curse on this list?
>

That's right! Cursing is cause for removal from the Nova Roma onelist.
Also please refrain from personal attacks.
Or in other words, "If you don't have something nice to say don't say
anything."

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:05:20 EST

<<That's right! Cursing is cause for removal from the Nova Roma onelist.
Also please refrain from personal attacks.
Or in other words, "If you don't have something nice to say don't say
anything.">>

Does that also apply to the people who keep saying I'm not taking NR
seriously? That to me is a big insult.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:08:35 -0500 (EST)

In regard to your reply about what you can do for Nova Roma. If you are
interested in that area of endeavor as I mentioned in an earlier post, I
have need of some work being done in relation to the Roman Navy, and te
ships therein. If you are interested, and can contain yourself, then I
have a task for you.

Marcus Minucus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:11:40 EST

alas i missed part 3 or did i? opinions of pt 3.


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:14:08 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 4:12:11 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
writes:

<< alas i missed part 3 or did i? opinions of pt 3. >>

I fell asleep during it. I got tired of the narrator's rambling on about the
Christian persecutions. I remember waking up and hearing him say something
about Constantinople...I put my head back on the pillow and fell back to
sleep.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:15:21 EST

<<In regard to your reply about what you can do for Nova Roma. If you are
interested in that area of endeavor as I mentioned in an earlier post, I
have need of some work being done in relation to the Roman Navy, and te
ships therein. If you are interested, and can contain yourself, then I
have a task for you.>>

What exactly is it you need done? Research on the navy?


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:13:37 EST

<<
Now looking at other scores around the Empire, at halftime in the Flavian
Colosseum in Rome it's Lions 42, Christians 0.
>>
hehe


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:17:00 -0500 (EST)

Taking NR seriously is not the issue here. Cursing is the issue. You
are indisagreement with those with whom you have contacted here, and
apparently you see nothing wrong with that. You say you are serious,
your actions say you are not. If you are serious settle down and show
us that you are, Foul language, inconsideration have no place on this
list.

I now withdraw my request to know your age. Several othe members have
contacted me in that regard and place your age variously based on your
behavior to date as between 12 and 17. In any case, you are of a mental
age that arguing seriously with adults is a futile and purposeless
effort. If you wish to do research I have given you an option. If not,
so b it.

Marcs Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:10:12 -0600 (CST)

Salve, Scriptus Frigus, et salvete Quirites:

>What, we cant curse on this list?

No, you cannot (as has been pointed out by our noble Consul)...and I
seem to remember reading somewhere that, while discussion of religious
matters is encouraged, direct attacks on Citizens and/or their beliefs
is strictly forbidden and can (will?) result in immediate expulsion
from the List.

An 'emotional' writing style is not an excuse for just-plain-rudeness
and going off like a loose cannon. We are of diverse backgrounds,
religious and otherwise; but we are all ROMANS, a people of Discipline,
and neither slaves nor subjects to anything so transitory as our
emotions.

Thank you, Minucius Audens, for reminding us that there are Christian
Citizens in Nova Roma, and they (we!) are no less Roman for that. Your
own record of usefulness and exemplary service to the Republic is one
that any Citizen of any faith might wish to emulate.

Yours under the Eagles,
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> M�ria Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:21:25 EST

<<
Splinted mail: 18 gague CRS lames over 3/16" oak tanned leather. Similar
results when hitting square on steel. Penetration occured at 37 yds when a
bodkin met leather. >>

first off what is splinted maile? been making maile for 11 years never heard
it before.

<<Chainmail: 1/14" wire of 5/16 ID - 4 in 1 pattern. Penetration at 50 yards
consistently.>>

ok this chainmaile you tested...how were the rings done?
butted/welded/riveted/open end. the testing of maile and the never ending (for
me at least) attempt to make arrow proof maile has always held my interest.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:27:51 EST

<<
Sorry to be so abnoxious about this, but let's not belittle the Religio
Romana
by creating a "myth". As someone said...Rome already has a creation story in
Romulus and Remus. NR considers itself the spiritual descendents of the
Romans. We should not try to create another story of why we are here and
what
we are doing. >>

here here well said.


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:34:45 EST

I appologize for any and all negative comments made about Christianity, Nova
Roma, and members of Nova Roma and humbly request forgiveness.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:49:40 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 3:40:51 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< I can do research, and other than that I'm a very good computer programmer.
I
specialize in online applications (MUDs, chatrooms, ICQ-ish programs) >>

Talk to Patricia Cassia on helping out on the website! That would be a great
start!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:33:39 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 7:02:05 AM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
writes:

<<
<< "The more one watches, the less that meets the eye." >>

I fell asleep during last nights last episode. It just bored me after
awhile.

--Dexippus >>
good then i did not miss anything...i seen and taped the first 2 parts..i am
happy with those.


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:38:20 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 7:59:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

<<
>Then there is Robert Heinlein's idea that only those who have honorably
>completed military service should have the right to vote. After all, if
you
>have not served the State, by what right should you demand a say in the
>affairs of the State? Given the military traditions and virtues of Roma
>Antiqua, perhaps there are some in Nova Roma who would want to consider
this
>idea.

I hope not. If we were a macronation with territory to defend, I might see
some sense in this sort of prerequisite. But, given the nature of Nova
Roma, such a prerequisite would be nothing short of absurd.
>>
why?


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:44:09 -0500 (EST)

The program that I had in mind for naval research was a listing of all
current websites having information about the use, tactics, construction
and development of Roman Naval Warships of any kind. When that is
complete, I want to divide those websites into the above categories plus
any others you may come up with for posting in the Sodalicum Militarium.
The next step wuld be to list the sites as applying to different classes
and types of warshps.

I have a Boy Scout Leader'smeeting this evening and I must leave for
now. You may message me your decision on this project.

Marcus Minucius Audens.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	"Jason Kopeny" jkopeny@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:54:38 +0100

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
>

>ok this chainmaile you tested...how were the rings done?
>butted/welded/riveted/open end. the testing of maile and the never ending
(for
>me at least) attempt to make arrow proof maile has always held my interest.
>

As an archer myself, I do not think it is possible to create arrow proof
mail, as arrow almost seem like they are designed to go through mail. Even
if you make them extremely small, placing a bodkin point on the end will
allow the arrow to find the hole and then the momentum and the shaft of the
arrow will exploit that weakness, making for a lot of pain for the person
wearing the mail.

Jason


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:51:07 EST

<< I got tired of that stupid tone poem, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum
Dum
De Dum De Dum Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum, Dum Dum De Dum De Dum Dum,
Dum. Over and over and over ... ad nauseam

QM
>>
awww and i missed it...::sigh::...well somehow my life my go on


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:53:10 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 11:03:19 AM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<<
<< Now looking at other scores around the Empire, at half-time in the Flavian
Colosseum in Rome it's Lions 42, Christians 0.>>

I use to tell my classes that the lions really didn't want to eat humans.
They mauled
them instead.
QFM >>

if you starve one enought it might change it's mind


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:56:04 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 1:12:54 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
writes:

<< alas I missed part 3 or did I? Opinions of pt 3. >>
Christian propaganda. (no offense Christians of NR, but really...)
You didn't miss much. They didn't even talk about the four Empires, Gaul,
Rome, Greece and Palmyra in the 260s..
Vale
QFM


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:01:34 EST

<< WHAT I WANT: Is a god that crushes his enemies!!! ::starts speaking
louder
and louder:: WHO PAINTS THE WAY TO THE AFTERLIFE IN THE BLOOD OF HIS
ENEMIES!! HE FEEDS HIS PEOPLE WITH BREAD MADE FROM THEIR CRUSHED BONES!
>>

let me know if you find him...him i could work for.


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:09:56 -0500

Salvete Quirites

>There are a couple of priestly positions that can be held by patricians
>only. Marce Cassi, Luci Equiti, anyone care to remind us just which those
>are? One is the Rex Sacrorum, right?

YES
>
Traditionally, The Flamines Maiores (Major Flamines);
Flamen Dialis (priest of Iuppiter);
Flamen Martialis (priest of Mars);
Flamen Quirinalis (priest of Quirinus) were Patrician,
but this is not in the NR constitution. However, the Constitution
<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html</a> does have some
criteria for the various religious duties divided by class.
Check out, Article VI: Public Religious Institutions, for the specifics.
>
>>Then there is Robert Heinlein's idea that only those who have honorably
>>completed military service should have the right to vote. After all, if
>>you have not served the State, by what right should you demand a say in
the
>>affairs of the State.

Hey, Since I am retired from the Navy, I would say this is a Great Idea! :-)
... But,
Of course we don't have a military in Nova Roma other than reenactors so...
I guess that idea is not a good one... rats :-)

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Flamen Martialis


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:09:19 EST

<< But the Italians liked cats. The novelty I suppose >>

if there had been something else around bigger and more they would have used
that
but i have no idea what the other would have been.....bears are big but i do
not think it was what they were really looking for in a beast for the
games.....::walks off muttering something about lions and tigers and
bears.....::


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:12:10 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 1:21:43 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
writes:

<< First off what is splinted mail? Been making mail for 11 years never heard
it before. >>
It's called Partial Plate as well.
QM


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	"Jason Kopeny" jkopeny@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:17:19 +0100

-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Mittwoch, 10. M�rz 1999 21:16
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
>NOTE: Catholics have no reason to believe Jesus died for their sins. THey
>could just go murder someone and say a few hailmarys and they're fine :P
>

Until you take a course on Theology, do not comment on religions you do not
understand. It just makes you look stupid.


Subject:	Re: Temale's god
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:12:26 -0600 (CST)

On 03/10/99 14:37:16 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>WHAT I WANT: Is a god that crushes his enemies!!! ::starts speaking louder
>and louder:: WHO PAINTS THE WAY TO THE AFTERLIFE IN THE BLOOD OF HIS
>ENEMIES!! HE FEEDS HIS PEOPLE WITH BREAD MADE FROM THEIR CRUSHED BONES!

Oh! You want "Vampire, the Masquerade" then! You'll just love it.
I recommend White Wolf Games' website.

Flavia Claudia

"I don't care if he's fornicatin'
Long as I got my plastic Satan
Sinnin' on the dashboard of my car..."


Subject:	Re: Lions and their keepers
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:17:27 EST

killing animals when christians are in such a never ending supply was foolish
to say the least.....i hope what you seen was not in the 3rd part.


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:15:31 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 1:35:07 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< I apologize for any and all negative comments made about Christianity, Nova
Roma, and members of Nova Roma and humbly request forgiveness.
>>
Thank you Scribus. Now that all the misunderstandings are out of the way, we
all can be civil once more.
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:21:11 EST

<< How about a Nova Roma circus. We can travel around the world demonstrating
gladitorial combats and how animals were treated in the Circus Maximus!!!!!!!
>>

a fine idea.....where do i sign and when do we leave on tour.....gladitor
fights wooohoooo....i will be there helm on head and gladius in hand.....c'mon
you bad ol puddy tat.....here kitty kitty


Subject:	Re: Off-topic posts
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:20:41 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 2:12:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< We are here to form a community with the goal of increasing knowledge and
appreciation of ancient Rome. If your post will not contribute to that
goal, please send it as private e-mail, or find another outlet for it.

thank you,
Patricia Cassia >>
Salve.
Well, spoken Patricia Cassia!
Vale
QFM


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians and Lions
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:23:54 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 2:09:51 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
writes:

<< Bears are big >>
Byzantines liked bears. But they were very unpredictable.
QFM


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:25:31 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 12:38:32 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;

<<How about a Nova Roma circus. We can travel around the world demonstrating
gladitorial combats and how animals were treated in the Circus
Maximus!!!!!!!>>

I know that was a joke but it gave me an idea (this idea is a half-joke). NR
gladitorial games where spectators can watch... make it like a sport.
::shrug:: There are stranger things in the world. >>

i like it.....


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:29:55 EST

<< << alas i missed part 3 or did i? opinions of pt 3. >>

I fell asleep during it. I got tired of the narrator's rambling on about the
Christian persecutions. I remember waking up and hearing him say something
about Constantinople...I put my head back on the pillow and fell back to
sleep.

--Dexippus
>>
ok i do not feel so bad about missing it then


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:33:26 EST

>Tamale:
>
>All Right, I think that enough! You have been counciled by three
>gentlemen in Nova Roma as to what is proper and what is not here. While
>I am not a Catholic, I am a Christian, and your comments, your foul
>language and your inability to consider others on this net has reached
>the breaking point. Either rein in you "flash" ideas, or I will be
>forced to appeal to the Webmaster to take partcular action. You are
>dandgerously close to repeating a problem which I am sure that we all do
>not wish to re-visit.
>
>Marcus Minucus Audens
>Quaestor

>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>>As for realism/respect: Respect of what? You? I dont think so. And
>realism
>>- its not going to get done if I dont even give the idea, now is it?
>This is too much. I appeal to our magistrates to put an end to this guy, for
>right now I would prefer to hear Marconius postings instead.
>
>Valete omnes
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Aedile Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae

I agree with these civies. Is this person a citizen? If not, then there
is no consitutional impediment to muzzling him if he won't conduct
himself in an acceptable manner in this forum.

He probably means well in his own juvenile way, but he comes in here and
insults the intelligence of practically everybody, offends against
several different religious persuasions, and offers to redefine the
nation for us. Then HE gets offended whenever anyone replies with
exhibiting proper deference for his brilliance. He's wasting a lot of our
bandwidth. Let the magistrates deal with him, please.

L. Sergius Aust.

ita, te adloquor.

(Yeah, I'm talking to you.)


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:36:54 EST

<<Until you take a course on Theology, do not comment on religions you do not
understand. It just makes you look stupid.>>

It was meant as a joke.


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:44:21 EST

Didnt we already get over this? Again, I appologize for any offenses made
toward you, the gods, Nova Roma, Roma Antiqua, and Bozo the Clown. (Bozo the
Clown is meant to lighten things up, not meant to be disrespectful.) But I
will say again, *PLEASE* do not start the "childish"/"juvenile" stuff. Alot
of the religious stuff was meant as a joke, but I have a dry sense of humor
that didnt get percieved in the correct way. As for the things I *DID* mean
to be against religion, again I appologize for making negative comments about
it and will refrain from doing so in the future.

<<He probably means well in his own juvenile way, but he comes in here and
insults the intelligence of practically everybody, offends against
several different religious persuasions, and offers to redefine the
nation for us. Then HE gets offended whenever anyone replies with
exhibiting proper deference for his brilliance. He's wasting a lot of our
bandwidth. Let the magistrates deal with him, please.>>


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:46:04 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 1:49:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=045202253115056116187218141036129208" >jkopeny@--------</a> writes:

<< As an archer myself, I do not think it is possible to create arrow proof
mail, as arrow almost seem like they are designed to go through mail. Even
if you make them extremely small, placing a bodkin point on the end will
allow the arrow to find the hole and then the momentum and the shaft of the
arrow will exploit that weakness, making for a lot of pain for the person
wearing the mail.
>>
what if it were not your average chainmaile.....i can make a crossbar maile
which might be able to survive the arrow test.....i can provide a sample if
you can do the test. i cannot say how this will stand up to a test like this,
but this is one way to find out. if it works great...if it fails then i will
return to my armoury to conduct more work.


Subject:	Serious Posts
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:51:57 EST

Nova Roma: Gladitorial Games

I believe it would be a good idea and a good way to encourage people to join,
if Nova Roma had some sort of "mock wars" between the Roman re-enactors and
the SCA barbarians. There could even be "mock wars" between the provinces for
fame and glory of the soldiers. Perhaps some sort of pin or other insignia
for those who win so many battles, display courage, etc.

To go along with this, how about very easy ways to get into legions? Some
people get turned away from re-enacting because they don't want to spend alot
of time/money looking for Roman items. First of all, perhaps the legions
could have one or two sets of Roman items (armor and rattan gladius) that
could be lent out to new members before they get their own items, and perhaps
NR legions could have some sets of items on hand for people to buy so all they
need to do is sign up, pay the money, and start doing whatever they're doing.
Rental system of items might bring in a small amount of money. Additional
money perhaps from training courses in the use of the gladius.

There are actually some high-tech ways to have large battles between people
and monitor hits and such, but I won't get into that at this time.


Subject:	Re: Rome: Power & Glory
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:58:11 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 1:57:54 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<<
<< alas I missed part 3 or did I? Opinions of pt 3. >>
Christian propaganda. (no offense Christians of NR, but really...)
You didn't miss much. They didn't even talk about the four Empires, Gaul,
Rome, Greece and Palmyra in the 260s..
Vale
QFM >>
the good news continues.....


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:01:08 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/10/99 2:12:20 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< << First off what is splinted mail? Been making mail for 11 years never
heard
it before. >>
It's called Partial Plate as well.
QM
>>
interesting.....always good to learn new things


Subject:	Re: List traffic
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:05:04 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 2:23:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< rom: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>

While I'm on the subject, could our more voluble members please try to
confine themselves to one or two posts a day? We need to keep the volume
of this list low enough that everyone feels free to participate, rather
than being overburdened to the point of deleting conversations to which
they might have contributed useful information.

Think before you hit Send - is this going to add to anyone's store of
information? If you're citing historical facts, have you mentioned
sources where we can verify your information and find out more about the
topic? If your message is intended for only one or two people, you might
do better to take it off the list.

Thanks to those who already post politely.

Patricia Cassia
>>
i can see that i was over doing it a tad.....my sincere apologies to all.


Subject:	Re: Writing Style
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:05:42 EST

don't take that as an insult, Temale. I have experience writing in the
military history board, and i am known as a firebrand. but i am indeed
respected. It's not worth ones time to take the middle position, especialy if
everyone is taking the middle possition.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:14:32 EST

hmmm. here is something very good in a city. two large centers. one at the
head, or front, and the other at the back. then pick one as the center of
town and use that as the center of the town. this center should be beutiful,
open to the public, and most certaintly have a place for political discussion
and open air debate.

Having two large monuments or centers goes back to the time of the hindus
valley civilization and i thought the design was spectacular. in an overhead
view, it looks absolutly gorgeous because they balance each other, rather than
having everything on one side. also, it looks spectacular from the street,
having a larg monument ahead and behind you.

I also suggest a cross road plan. a west, east, north, and south wall
with an entrance each and a road leading to the center to form a cross, and
having a nice fountain or something to break the view, cause personally
speaking, being able to see the other side of a city and out the door is
somewhat ugly. we want to give them a feeling of a whole new world, and give
the least view of the outside as possible, them being tourists.

By the way, tiling each road is somewhat expensive. if you want to get rid of
something, choose that and put it on only center roads. I also suggest a
large forum. c'est tres chic.


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:18:02 EST

I too question. this system is not only oppresive, but it is certiantly a
little ineffective, not to mention silly. Why replace the old ills with new
ones? we know the effects of plebiean and patrician classes, or at least we
should. Three plebiean sucessions in a very short time.

It's okay now, but if you plan on making a real city, i'd abolish it, not
just becuase of people living in the city, but the tourists passing through.
chances are we will have more tourists than actual citizens in teh city, and
it would basicly make tourists of a ptarician class, making the entire system
ineffective and top heavy.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:20:09 EST

glad to hear you have faith, but i can't honostly say that the original
stories of rome weren't "just made up". so if you want to make a myth, no
one is stopping you, and because the senate had no part in creating myths back
then, there doesn't have to be any formal vote, just the people's opinion.

But beware: legends only work if one believes in them in only the slightest
bit or more, but if all knows they are false, they lost their magic. so i
think if a myth is going to be spread, it better start by rumor.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:25:12 EST

then don't waste your time. allow me to do my own fabricating, just delete
the mails. and it isn't nonsense. rome had clowns, since the beginning it
had people whom believed in myth. so who's to say that Nova Roma doesn't have
the same merit?


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:28:10 EST

here's a natural attitude among historians, which i am sure are among us.
They are very defensive, Temale, because their reputation is what is important
and what gets them jobs, so they are automaticly defensive and often put
others down to acheive their own ends, which they are not trying to do, but do
subconcsiencly, so don't take them TOO seriously Temale, it is utterly
unproffesional of them to insult others, but as we can see, it is accepted
scholarly behavior.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:23:39 EST

i don't care about the roman religeon. I am a historian. and this is why i
don't care how the system is treated. i am not saying anything detrimental to
the roman religeon, no one can be so obnoxious as to say that there is no
possilbity that their god isn't the god, so i won't say that.

But I am not belittling the roman religeon, and bear no malice, it's just my
lack of imagination that makes it sounds unbelieveable. but one pertaining to
super human feats rather than supernatural would seem a better cantidate for
myth. like the one about the lone roman soldier who held his enemies at bay
while the bridge was burned, in which he miraculously survived and jumped into
the river, and was swept to the shore.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:30:51 EST

good idea sulla. I am not a citizen, but i humbly offer all i have to the
idea of myth and the debate over making up a myth. and i ahve answered
several e-mails on the subject in only two days, and my personal opinion is
let the people make it up, and presenting to a group of people is a little
pointless, cause that's not how myths get started. we can't just vote on it.
parents have to teach it to their children, and it must be heard on a regular
basis for validity, but it cannot be preached as truth by a certian group of
officials.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:32:45 EST

my my. it has sunken a tad low. let's have no :p. this is silly. and let's
not question each otehr's opinions, rather accept them and present our own.
This is the society we are trying to build, and spite is not very good cement.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:34:10 EST

hmm. i believe my previous e-mails answer these statesments. but one more
thing. don't call someone tacky and then tell them they are a hag or an imp,
please.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:39:59 EST

I would like to discuss the move from senate to empire in rome, the
consequences, the details such as necessity, innevitability of the change,
etc. I'd also like to discus new plans for class distinction or for that
matter geting rid of class distinction, which i am sure only hard nosed
followers can truly support as moraly just. for now it's okay, but what about
when citizens are BORN into classes? Yikes.


Subject:	New Lists
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:41:55 EST

I've created six new lists for specific discusssions:

NovaRoma_Senate for senate only.

NovaRoma_Debates for debates such as we had on this list that clogged
everyones mailboxes.

NovaRoma_History for historical topics.

NovaRoma_Legions for people in or trying to organize legions.

NovaRoma_Military for military related topics.

NovaRoma_Religion for discussion of the Religio Romana as well as other
religions.


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:43:05 EST

i wouldn't vote for it, myself. or atleast have a building for it, but
putting sweaty men and dangerous beasts into the calm and luxury of the open
air world of Nova Roma aint appealing to me. but perhaps if we could have a
designated place for it . . .


Subject:	Re: Priesthoods
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:41:40 EST

by the way, are we instating several different religeons? what I mean by that
is, can we allow otehr religeions on Nova ROma property. we don't have to
patronise them, but can we justly kick them out just for religeous
differences?


Subject:	Re: Myth/Eagle
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:36:52 EST

no. i don't believe in censuring anyone, but let's not get carried away.
rember: President Johnson lost all respect for vetoing like crazy just to
cause hatred in congress like a little child. he also lsot respect for
cursing and losing his temper in public. these are question of respect for
each other as historians and enthusiasts. I suggest we wipe the slate clean,
and start rebuilding the discussion in a more constructive way.


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:45:03 EST

we've no quarrels to settle with violence. as it says in the constitution, we
do not aquire land militarily.


Subject:	Re: Temale's god
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:46:30 EST

Mars. and i agree, an strong military god is needed to balance the fragile
and decadent world of the otehr gods.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:56:49 EST

<>

The following is only an idea. I take no legal responsibility for the idea as
I am currently possessed by a demon named Sam. Please direct any insults to
Sam and not the mortal body he is controlling:

Something where you have a Council of say...a dozen people. Then you have a
High All these people would be elected officials. Council would be one year
terms. The councils would come up with the laws, taxes, etc. and vote on
them. Decisions are made by a 2/3 vote. This is similar to a senate but it
is limited to 12 elected officials. Going even further, each Council member
could have a specific duty. One might be the Tax Collector and Treasurer,
another would be the Creative Anacronism Councillor, and yet another might be
the councillor that handles legal matters within the micronation.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:01:01 EST

sounds an aweful lot like a legislature. it would take away power from the
senate and have less corruption that way, but something tell me that the
senate doesn't have to worry about curroption because with such a small
population, a government and even king is forced into a demorcacy.


Subject:	Classes
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:58:05 EST

I definately agree classes should not be brought back. Its going to cause
more trouble than it is worth.


Subject:	Re: Topics
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:06:50 EST

<<sounds an aweful lot like a legislature. it would take away power from the
senate and have less corruption that way, but something tell me that the
senate doesn't have to worry about curroption because with such a small
population, a government and even king is forced into a demorcacy.>>

To me the current government of NR just seems a bit chaotic. But maybe thats
just because I dont understand all the processes. Oh well.


Subject:	Abraham Lincoln
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:32:18 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes.

I referred to this aphorism several months ago, but it will be fresh -- and
hopefully instructive -- to the newest individuals on this list:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out loud
and remove all doubt."

M. Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>


Subject:	Re: Abraham Lincoln
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:41:52 EST

<<"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out loud
and remove all doubt.">>

I don't think anyone who expresses their opinion and has reasons behind it
should be thought of as a fool. I'd say people who don't give their opinions
are the fools actually.


Subject:	Re: Capers, pine nuts and Caesar
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:46:09 -0600

Ave Dexippus!

I think it was in the Time-Life series "Recipes of the World," the Italy
volume, hardback book on the background for the spiral bound recipe book.
Unfortunately it is long out of print, and I must make use of my
mother-in-law's copy during my once a year visit back to Massachusetts. Also,
Jeff Smith (aka the Frugal Gourmet, I know - great historical source) mentions
in his book on Greek, Roman and Chinese cooking having seen a fresco in an
Etruscan tomb which was described as showing the making of noodles.

I'll dig for better info.

Wait, wait - I feel a good topic for an Eagle Article coming on!!!

SUBSCRIBE and find out further details, write to Flavia Claudia, Editrix at:
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
on how to get the Eagle, the OFFICIAL newsletter of Nova Roma. Available now
at a bargain rate!

-- Venator

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> In a message dated 3/9/99 9:44:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> write--------font>
>
> << One source I read about the history of
> Italian
> cooking states that many modern forms of pasta would be recognized by
> the
> late-period Romans. >>
>
> Hmmm...ok....thanks Venator. Do you have the name of that source? This is
> the first I've heard of it.
>
> --Dexippus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come check out our brand new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:58:02 -0600

Hailsa et Slave!

What I am terming splinted mail here is also called lamellar or coat of plates.
The main protection is smaller plates of steel (also called lames) which are on a
leather backing or are riveted between layers of lighter leather or canvas. This
would be similar in concept to the Roman armor known as Lorica Squamata.

The chainmail I make is "get 'em on the field" quality butted link. I use
galvanized electric fence wire for the basic material. Though, when I lived in
Florida I had access to high strength, hard-drawn aluminum wire, which is used for
high tension power lines. The power line material with a steel center core wire
is too soft, it has too be the southern wire which can stand up without the
reinforcement.

Perhaps an oriental pattern or double mail chainmail would be of greater puncture
resistance, but the bodkin point IS designed for maximal penetration power.

-- Venator

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=019056014056175209036168000248147208071048" >Zemetrius@--------</--------;
>
> << Splinted mail: 18 gauge CRS lames over 3/16" oak tanned leather. Similar
> results when hitting square on steel. Penetration occured at 37 yds when a
> bodkin met leather. >>
>
> first off what is splinted maile? been making maile for 11 years never heard
> it before.
>
> <<Chainmail: 14 gauge wire, rings of 5/16 ID - 4 in 1 pattern. Penetration at
> 50 yards
> consistently.>>
>
> ok this chainmaile you tested...how were the rings done?
> butted/welded/riveted/open end. the testing of maile and the never ending (for
> me at least) attempt to make arrow proof maile has always held my interest.


Subject:	Re: Abraham Lincoln
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:50:19 EST

very funny and very revealing


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	"Gaius Triumphius" poeticfiend@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:59:54 PST

>In a message dated 3/10/99 2:12:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>writes:
>
><< << First off what is splinted mail? Been making mail for 11 years
never
>heard
> it before. >>
> It's called Partial Plate as well.
> QM

The historical existance of this armour has been questioned. It is
claimed that the armour is made of narrow vertical strips riveted to a
backing of leather and cloth padding. Since this is not flexible, the
joints are protected by chainmail.

Hope this helps.

Gaius Triumphius
Paterfamilias,Praetor,Promoter

Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:10:37 EST

wouldn't narrow verticle strips be very mangable? versus a solid chest plate,
that is?


Subject:	What are you refering to???
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:19:05 -0600

ENGFLAN, please!

Refer to at least to some small quote in your replies.

I, and probably others, would find your comments much more cogent that
way. Even a synopsis in your own words of the subject to which you are
replying, as well to whom you are replying would be a wealth of
improvement.

Gratias -- Venator


Subject:	Re: What are you refering to???
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:24:06 EST

cool. sorry for the slew of new e-mails by the way, thought i'd make a
splash. well, now that i have, i'll condense all my e-mails into one per
subject


Subject:	Re: Abraham Lincoln
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:54:20 -0800 (PST)

At 08:41 PM 3/10/99 EST, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
><<"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out loud
>and remove all doubt.">>
>
>I don't think anyone who expresses their opinion and has reasons behind it
>should be thought of as a fool.
>
>
Well, of course you don't. That is for others to judge.

M. Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Mars Society California
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/marscal/mcalfrm.htm</a>

The Martian Time Web Site
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/mars/calendar.htm</a>

The Martian Ministry of Culture
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/culture.htm</a>

Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too): Rabbit and Cat Rescue and Adoption
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/mars_ultor/rabbits/html/rabbits.htm</a>

The National Primary System
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/primary/primfrm.htm</a>

World GenWeb Calabria
<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/calabria/calabria.htm</a>


Subject:	Re: NR City
From:	Zemetrius@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:05:13 EST

In a message dated 3/10/99 5:59:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=197233192165082194105056163101081165094048139046" >poeticfiend@--------</a> writes:

<< The historical existance of this armour has been questioned. It is
claimed that the armour is made of narrow vertical strips riveted to a
backing of leather and cloth padding. Since this is not flexible, the
joints are protected by chainmail.

Hope this helps.

Gaius Triumphius
Paterfamilias,Praetor,Promoter
>>
ok i will have to look into this....thanks for the information.....the only
skill i picked up from my 11 years in the sca was how to make chainmaile.
Prefect Probatii Zemetrius


Subject:	Re: Abraham Lincoln
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:33:27 EST

<<Well, of course you don't. That is for others to judge.>>

Eh?? Is this a joke?


Subject:	Re: On Classes and Voting Rights
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:32:37 -0500

Salvete Zemetri et alii

I don't know your full Roman name, so I hope that Zemetrius is ok with you.

:
: I hope not. If we were a macronation with territory to defend, I might
see
: some sense in this sort of prerequisite. But, given the nature of Nova
: Roma, such a prerequisite would be nothing short of absurd.
: >>
:why?

Because Nova Roma is totally against the use of force to advance its aims.
It therefore follows that there will never be a Nova Roma army, although we
do have a sodalitas militiarum dedicated to the study and re-enactment of
res militares.

In light of the non-existence of a Nova Roma army, it follows that there are
no forces in which citizens can serve in order to fulfill such an obligation
to obtain voting rights. Hence the absurdity.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist?
:<a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
:Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest
:


Subject:	re New Lists
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:45:00 -0500

Who is going to moderate all these lists?

:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
:
:I've created six new lists for specific discusssions:
:
:NovaRoma_Senate for senate only.
:
:NovaRoma_Debates for debates such as we had on this list that clogged
:everyones mailboxes.
:
:NovaRoma_History for historical topics.
:
:NovaRoma_Legions for people in or trying to organize legions.
:
:NovaRoma_Military for military related topics.
:
:NovaRoma_Religion for discussion of the Religio Romana as well as other
:religions.
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site!
:<a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
:Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange
:


Subject:	Re: re New Lists
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:12:50 EST

military legions and history are my subjects. what about them? Well, if
there needs to be a discussion started, let me start it. I believe Caesar to
be inadequet as a general. my reasons are that he was bad at logsitics and
that he was often careless. thank you.


Subject:	Re: re New Lists
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:15:15 EST

<<Who is going to moderate all these lists?>>

Me.


Subject:	Re: re New Lists
From:	ENGFLAN@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:20:47 EST

thank you


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:27:37 -0500 (EST)

While you certainly have the right to create lists for your own purposes
you are not authorized to create Nova Roma Lists. We have a Webmaster
who has that responsibility. Yu are required to contact that individual
"before" you start creating things on this list.

There is no doubt in my mind that you are taking these actions to be
deliberately obtuse and disruptive. I ask that you stop these nusiance
actions and behave yourself. This action places a great deal of strain
on the crediality of your formal apology. This is your second warning.
Cease and desist these disruptions.

Marcus Minucius Audens;
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:39:35 EST

I say the following with the highest respect possible: "Bla bla bla."
::grin::

Anyone can create mailing lists. I just happened to have the idea to
categories topics. I didnt feel the need to have to consult everyone before I
did it. Just sign up for the lists, they are active. I understand if you
want to make them "unofficial" lists.

As for "There is no doubt in my mind that you are taking these actions to be
deliberately obtuse and disruptive", its quite the opposite. I was trying to
help categorize things so people wouldnt get emails they didnt want and could
organize emails better. For example, this email I'm writing right now would
go to NovaRoma_Debates, and those who don't want to listen to things like this
simply wouldnt read it.

<<While you certainly have the right to create lists for your own purposes
you are not authorized to create Nova Roma Lists. We have a Webmaster
who has that responsibility. Yu are required to contact that individual
"before" you start creating things on this list.

There is no doubt in my mind that you are taking these actions to be
deliberately obtuse and disruptive. I ask that you stop these nusiance
actions and behave yourself. This action places a great deal of strain
on the crediality of your formal apology. This is your second warning.
Cease and desist these disruptions.>>


Subject:	Re: Abraham Lincoln
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:43:33 -0500

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
><<Well, of course you don't. That is for others to judge.>>
>
>Eh?? Is this a joke?
>
For most things there is Mastercard, for others, "priceless!!" :-)

Valete, L Equitius


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:42:29 EST

Do you really think a person would create email lists to spite you? "I'm
angry at him! I think I'll start an email list!" I mean, it just doesnt make
any sense.

<<There is no doubt in my mind that you are taking these actions to be
deliberately obtuse and disruptive. I ask that you stop these nusiance
actions and behave yourself. This action places a great deal of strain
on the crediality of your formal apology. This is your second warning.
Cease and desist these disruptions.>>


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:51:23 -0800

Marcus Minucius Audens is possibly the most level headed and forgiving citizen
of Nova Roma. Twice he has been brought to the point of urging Temale to clean
up his act. M. Minucius Audens has also extended a hand to Temale in the form a
a way that Temale can channel his energies into constructive ways. I do not
have the finely tempered nature that Audens has. This is one case where I do
not believe that matters. Read the post of Marcus Minucius Audens again,
Citizens. And think on the behavior you have seen exhibited by the person
Temale.

C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor ad Californiam Provinciam