Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Micronation
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:08:30 +0000

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
>
> How does everyone here feel about a micronation within a micronation? Perhaps
> NR could be split, just like ancient rome had the East and West. Those who
> you call the "15 year old children who dont want to wait" can be on one while
> the "old hags" are the other. Separate governments, but they would work
> together. Any thoughts?
>
> -

Please go away.


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	Temale@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:58:56 EST

You cant stop people from making email lists with that name in there; its just
not one of the functions of a copyright. If the person were to say that that
was the official list, or that they were the company itself, then that would
be against the law, but not just having a list. Example: Sony_Games list for
discussion of sony playstation games wouldn't be against copyright just
because it has Sony in the name.

<<Do we not have a copyright on the name of the organization, so that
strangers and interlopers can be prevented from mis-applying it as this
person has done?

If not, then I think that's something the Senate should look into ASAP.>>


Subject:	Re: You Win ( ENGFLAN's exit)
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:36:59 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 8:25:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< this is a Roman speech!>>

You know, hate him all you like, but you have to admit that was a pretty
stylish exit!
Very Roman! Plutarch would have been pleased.

QFM


Subject:	Re: [
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:55:40 PST

Salvete, Quirites!
>
> 18. Pustule
> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>

Whoever <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------; is, wrote
>>
>>diveded we fall. heard that before? it's true. we must remain a
stable
>>force, their aren't many of us, and this kindof malice will truly
divide us.

- and Gangalius replied:

>"Us?" You are not one of us! You are merely a pustule on the body of
the
>citizenry, and I call upon our esteemed magistrates to lance you wist
all
>deliberate speed!
>
>Quirites, has this not gone on long enough?
>

I am unsure whether I can call myself a Quiritus (Quiritis?) since the
Censores don't appear to have processed my application yet (no criticism
implied, it must be a thankless task)... but for what it's worth,
in answer to Gangalius' appeal I have to say YES! SATIS! PLETHORA!! to
these vexatious disputants. The quality of mailing list information has
taken a dive as a result and Nova Roma - and everything it stands for -
is made to look ridiculous. Let repeated offenders be exiled, at least
for a period of time. Then the rest of us (if I'm entitled to include
myself) can get on with a civilised exchange of considered ideas and
information.

Valete in pace deorum,

Vado.

Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject:	Quis Sicut Cicero
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:38:23 PST

Salvete Quirites!
Eggflan wrote:

> Fine. I'll off myself of the list.>>
>
>Wow! Suddenly I feel like Cicero, who drove people out of Rome with
the
>power of his oratory. May the gods ensure that, unlike him, it doesn't
go
>to my head!
>
>I can't that I'm proud of what I've done -- it was all too easy, and a
bit
>me--------pirited. While I think the dep--------re of <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------; is for
the
>best, the ends does not justify the means. May we all now return to
the
>thoughtful discourse for which this list was intended, and I ask your
>forgiveness that I momentarily strayed from that intended purpose, and
>cleaved the general ear with my own indecorous words.
>
>May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Rome. May they also
grant me
>more wisdom in the future.
>
I believe your action was fully justified, O Gangalie. Less blunt
addresses failed to elicit the desired response. You spoke , evidently,
in a language which was understood. Sad necessity, but cause for
celebration. I think you deserve an award from the Senate.
Multas gratias et felicitationes!

Vale in pace deorum,

Vado.

Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject:	Re: Pennsic
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:26:30 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 5:13:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Hm. 2,000 naked guys? What's the address of this place? >>

Somewhere in Western Pennsylvania during the first 3 weeks of August.

<<-- Flavia Claudia
whose term as Vestal is up in April....>>

Who takes over the flame then?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:28:06 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 5:21:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Please keep in mind that all these "new e-mail lists" that have supposedly
spring up are not official Nova Roma lists, including the "back alley list."
Maybe ESPECIALLY the "back alley" list.
Anyone can start a private e-mail list, but they have no real right to
associate it with Nova Roma simply because some of the members are NR
Citizens. Only <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> is the official NR list. >>

Yep...the Back Alley List is not an official NR list. That's what makes it
great. There are no confines associated with being a sponsored list. It is
however, only open to citizens of NR. Isn't that right Crystalina?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:34:22 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/11/99 6:21:04 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
writes:

<< now that is some what insulting. i am not even a citizen, and now accused
of
conspiracy! >>

Without any insult meant...what is a non-citizen doing on the Main List? I
thought only citizens could subscribe? List Mistress...please advise.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monothe
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:35:38 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/11/99 6:38:54 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
writes:

<< For the umpteenth time, it was a joke. >>

And obviously a bad joke!

--Dexippus

"GREAT CEASAR'S GHOST!....oh...wait...it's just his toga!"


Subject:	Re: New Lists
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:36:40 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/11/99 6:43:58 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
writes:

<< From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;

I sympathize. >>

Ok look...if you're going to post something short and non-contributing to the
list, can you please paste a portion of the previous post so people know what
the hell you are talking about.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: NR and Legions
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:37:26 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 7:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> writes:

<< I may be wrong, but I always had the impression that we were going more
along the lines of the Republic, not the Empire. >>

You are not wrong! This is not Empire Rome we are modeling here. It's the
Republic!

--Dexippus

READ THE WEB PAGE!


Subject:	Re: Pustule
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:40:01 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 7:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< "Us?" You are not one of us! You are merely a pustule on the body of the
citizenry, and I call upon our esteemed magistrates to lance you wist all
deliberate speed!

Quirites, has this not gone on long enough?
>>

I, Damianus Lucianus Dexippus, paterfamilias of Gens Luciania and Augur of
Nova Roma, do now hereby add my voice to that of Gangalius and others of like
mind.

I call upon our esteemed magistrates to remove those disruptive voices from
the main list. And I propose that this list be closed to all non-citizens.

Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
Augur, Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:41:04 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 8:12:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/--------/novaroma?--------ectID=197212253112056209171056066140114100071048139" >--------er--------@--------</a> writes:

<< I hate guns. They make killing too easy. Give me a good epee or rapier, and
I can hold my own. It's up close and personal then. I'd even prefer a bow
and arrow... >>

That's my girl...like her Namesake she's a Huntress!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: OT: Arms versus Unarmed
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:43:11 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 8:23:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/--------/novaroma?--------ectID=197212253112056209171056066140114100071048139" >--------er--------@--------</a> writes:

<< Sure, just like that woman whose parents were killed in the McDonald's in
Texas by the "rabid" gunman who came in picked some people off. She could
surely have brought the gunman down before he killed her parents, pulling
out her gun in the middle of McDonald's, just like an old Western. Just
hope she misses all those little ones waiting for their french fries.
Perhaps all twenty of the other adults would have their guns too, all pull
them at the same time, and kill the made gunman together. Betcha they all
hit home, all twenty of 'em. >>

Guns and artillery are the weapons of cowards. I too prefer the sword or
hand-to-hand combat to that of arms and armaments.

--Dexippus
(yes...the Butch side of Dexie)


Subject:	Re: Pustule
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:56:19 -0000

Salvete omnes

<< "Us?" You are not one of us! You are merely a pustule on the body of
the
>citizenry, and I call upon our esteemed magistrates to lance you wist all
>deliberate speed!
>
>Quirites, has this not gone on long enough?
>>
>I, Damianus Lucianus Dexippus, paterfamilias of Gens Luciania and Augur of
>Nova Roma, do now hereby add my voice to that of Gangalius and others of
like
>mind.
>
>I call upon our esteemed magistrates to remove those disruptive voices from
>the main list. And I propose that this list be closed to all non-citizens.
I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus, Aedile Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae
Lusitaniae also agree that an end must be put to these disruptive posts. I
hereby ask the NR mailing lists to be closed to non-citizens.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Vatican vs. NR
From:	"Jason Kopeny" jkopeny@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:55:49 +0100

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
>
>i think comparing the vatican to Nova roma is not only unfair, but
>unrealistic. the vatican doesn't need legions. we might. would any
country
>actually do anything to help us in a time of need? probably not. But for
the
>vatican? they'd better! What I'm saying is that the vatican doesn't need
>soldiers, it has the western world at it's back.
>

Just for some info, yes, if the Vatican were attacked, yes I am sure there
would be outrage around the world, but the Vatican does has a militery force
(more like a police force as it really is not large enough to need a true
military), but even the Vatican has armed guards. (I think due to tradition
they are Swiss, but I am less sure of this...)

Jason


Subject:	Re: You Win
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:50:38 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 11:25:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Rome. May they also grant
me
more wisdom in the future. >>

You did well my friend. Don't apologize for it!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: You Win
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:49:44 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/11/99 10:49:59 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113111221238211130156218175036129208" >ENGFLAN@--------</--------;
writes:

<< I do remember Hannibal's final words on the roof his house after being
surrounded by Romans. I believe he searched for a way out, and when he saw
all his exits blocked, he took to the roof, where he shouted curses at the
Roman Republic and their people. He cursed them for pursuing a tired and
harmless old man. He then took the poison which he had been carrying since
he
became a fugitive. >>

Is it me or does everything this "historian" sites seem to echo what was
recently broadcasted on "Rome: Power and Glory"?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:52:44 EST

In a message dated 3/11/99 11:33:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:

<< Do we not have a copyright on the name of the organization, so that
strangers and interlopers can be prevented from mis-applying it as this
person has done?

If not, then I think that's something the Senate should look into ASAP.
>>

Get over yourself Australicanus! Crystallina is a Nova Roman citizen and not
an interloper as you so put it. If you don't like the Back Alley...don't
apply to it. The name has been changed so all the sensitivities of some of
our more puritan citizens should not be offended anymore.

--Dexippus

"This really is Rome!"


Subject:	Re: Pustule
From:	"Jason Kopeny" jkopeny@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:23:54 +0100

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;

>I call upon our esteemed magistrates to remove those disruptive voices from
>the main list. And I propose that this list be closed to all non-citizens.
>
>Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania
>Augur, Nova Roma

In this case I fear I must disagree with you. By closing this list
completely to any non-citizen of NR, I think you put a serious block in your
way to recruiting new members. I had never heard of NR before I stumbled
across this list on the OneList web page. If your aim is to allow people to
discover NR and to bring like-minded individuals into the fold, I believe
you must leave this list open to outsiders so that this can happen.

Jason


Subject:	Re: Vatican vs. NR
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:28:27 -0500 (EST)

The Swiss Guards of the Vatican are a crack military group trained n
some of the best military training centers in the world. They wear a
medieval uniform, and carry pikes, but they are trained in everything
from fighting commando knives to machine guns. Though small in number
as the Vatican is small in size, should anything untoward occur there, I
am convinced that they would give excellent account of themselves.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Net Action
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:38:36 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Marcus Martianus Gangailius;

I echo Dex, in his statement, "You did well, no need to apologize!"
Some people do not understand anything but the blunt end of a club, and
there are many reasons for that. Along the way each person must
determine how much he / she will give before the"club" becomes
necessary. It should only be necessary a very small percentage of the
time, but should be there ready to hand as needed.

You did well my dear sir, very well indeed. Your words were reflected
in essence in my messages to the Sr.Consul and Webmaster. However, I do
not have the eloquence nor the sophisticated bite that your post had.
On behalf of NR, I would like to thank you for that necessary action.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Pustule
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:04:12 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 10:18:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=045202253115056116187218141036129208" >jkopeny@--------</a> writes:

<< In this case I fear I must disagree with you. By closing this list
completely to any non-citizen of NR, I think you put a serious block in your
way to recruiting new members. I had never heard of NR before I stumbled
across this list on the OneList web page. If your aim is to allow people to
discover NR and to bring like-minded individuals into the fold, I believe
you must leave this list open to outsiders so that this can happen.
>>

I believe there is ample information on the website. Becoming a citizen is
free and easy and should not be a difficult decision to make. Once a citizen
anyone can easily become a member of the Main List. It's obvious that in
light of recent disruptions, non-citizens are too "care free" about there
posts and suggestions.

Jason..you are obviously not a citizen, nore are you a disruption on this
list. It's sad that a few bad apples would have to spoil it for everyone.
And I am not calling for your removal from this list. But I think going
forward, we need to set a standard.

--Dexippus


Subject:	List Reform was Re: Pustule
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:00:39 -0600

Avete Omnes:

If I may, instead of closing the List to non-Cives, can not our Domina
pro Tela
include a probationary message in the strongest terms possible? I
should not
like to loose obviously talented and contributing immigrants such as
Nicolas M., Jason K., myself when I first came to the New City... We
are, all of us, Immigrants
to Nova Rome, save Cassius and Germanicus, who were there waving us in.

In the wide open spaces of the WWW, we shall get our portion of uncouth,
ill-informed, disruptive rhetorical-grammatical boils, lance them
cleanly and
swiftly, as in the current cases.

mea sententia -- Venator


Subject:	Re: Pennsic
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:44:01 -0600

Avete!

The address would be Cooper's Lake Campground, near Newcastle, PA. No
day-tripping for ogling, but if you would to pay full admission from the
time you arrive, until close of war, you'll get in. One must be of legal
age to unaccompanied by a parent or legal guardian. Having been to several
Pennsics, I haven't seen wholesale nudity, but I find the various "peekaboo"
costumes delightful!

Ask me off-list for more info on Pennsic or the SCA.

Lord Alasdair Morgan of Clan Gunn,
former Pennsic Autocrat's Staff and Security Shift Leader

Known in Nova Rome as Venator

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 3/11/99 5:13:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:
>
> << Hm. 2,000 naked guys? What's the address of this place? >>
>
> Somewhere in Western Pennsylvania during the first 3 weeks of August.
>
> <<-- Flavia Claudia
> whose term as Vestal is up in April....>>
>
> Who takes over the flame then?
>
> --Dexippus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We have a new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:10:23 -0500

Salvete Omnes

There have been calls for new lists, restricting the creation of unofficial
lists, and barring non-citizens from this official list. I'll here throw my
$.02 at these proposals.

First of all, I don't think that it's practical or desirable to try to limit
the generation of new lists associated one way or another with Nova Roma.
If someone among us is dying to talk about things that are not well covered
or received on this main list, why not encourage them to make a separate
list? And, if some barbarus makes an anti-list, so be it. Such an
anti-list would most likely whither away soon enough.

As to closing subscription to the main list from non-citizens, I understand
the advantages and almost want to say "yes, let's". But, it is true that
people serious in their intentions may want to subscribe to get a feel for
who and what we are. So, I offer this suggestion to the magistrates: allow
anyone to subscribe to this main list; there must be a procedure, however,
whereby those newcomers who post long, way-off-topic messages, or many, many
way-off-topic messages, and/or curse at citizens, or otherwise violate
certain basic criteria set forth by you magistrates, receive a warning;
violation after the warning gets the offender unsubscribed and placed on a
citizenship proscription list to the best of our magistrates' ability to
maintain such. If we cant quiet the person down, let's proscribe 'em.

I'm no saint but I wish that newcomers would approach Nova Roma as I did,
cautiously and respectfully. Those who approach us in a hostile or
extremely infantile way must be resisted effectively or they'll have a
negative impact on us.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 3/11/99 5:21:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:
>
><< Please keep in mind that all these "new e-mail lists" that have
supposedly
>spring up are not official Nova Roma lists, including the "back alley
list."
> Maybe ESPECIALLY the "back alley" list.
> Anyone can start a private e-mail list, but they have no real right to
>associate it with Nova Roma simply because some of the members are NR
> Citizens. Only <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> is the official NR list. >>
>
>Yep...the Back Alley List is not an official NR list. That's what makes it
>great. There are no confines associated with being a sponsored list. It
is
>however, only open to citizens of NR. Isn't that right Crystalina?
>


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:15:54 -0500


Subject:	Vatican vs NR
From:	Michael Cessna clinkerbuilt2@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:52:16 -0800 (PST)

The Vatican Guards are the last remaining Swiss mercenary unit in
the world. The current guard is the last remnant of a much larger
force that served the Vatican prior to the unification if Italia.
Additionally, the Vatican Guard is the sole exception to the treaty of
1848(?), where Switzerland agreed never to allow mercenary units to
depart its borders again.

The size of the Guard is roughly that of an over- strength century.
In addition to their ceremonial duties, they provide limited
counter-terrorist/HRT protection.

If anyone wants more info, I'll try to dig it out...

Gn Marius Asiaticus


Subject:	Re: Vatican vs NR
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:56:33 -0500 (EST)

Absolutely!! I am very interested in the Vatican Guard. I understand
from my military contacts that they are a crack unit, and have been
trained by the best in several aspects. I should like of all things a
reference or two on this unit. I am not a catholic at all, but this is
one aspect of the Vatican, beside the architechture, that I am
interested in.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:03:48 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 12:20:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

<< As to closing subscription to the main list from non-citizens, I understand
the advantages and almost want to say "yes, let's". But, it is true that
people serious in their intentions may want to subscribe to get a feel for
who and what we are. So, I offer this suggestion to the magistrates: allow
anyone to subscribe to this main list; there must be a procedure, however,
whereby those newcomers who post long, way-off-topic messages, or many, many
way-off-topic messages, and/or curse at citizens, or otherwise violate
certain basic criteria set forth by you magistrates, receive a warning;
violation after the warning gets the offender unsubscribed and placed on a
citizenship proscription list to the best of our magistrates' ability to
maintain such. If we cant quiet the person down, let's proscribe 'em. >>

Perhaps we can institute a "3 strikes and you're out" policy for non-citizen
subscribers?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Concerning several things
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:16:46 EST

Salvete
I would like to make several comments.

Closing the List to Non Roman Citizens:
Bad. Why? Because we come across as elitist snobs. I was a citizen before I
subscribed to the List, but I did read all the posts on the bulletin board.
What we need is simple rules of behavior.
What we had this last week, was the equivalent of kids running loose in the
temple, raising havoc, knocking over the tripods etc.
We need to post a something that declares that certain things will not be
tolerated in the temple. Last week's example showed that when we caught up
with them, they didn't like authority. But what kid doesn't? And we had to
slap them down. If they knew what they were letting themselves in for, they
may have approached it differently.

Remember, Rome welcomed everybody. That's why Rome grew. Granted these kids
were headstrong and undisciplined. But weren't we all at that age?

Next Sponsorship.
If a non-citizen wants on the one-list, perhaps sponsorship is the way to go.
Temale told me that he lurked on the list from DEC to now, but he only got
bold enough to speak, after watching the TV special. Now I think this special
has raised Roman conscience so to speak, my Byzantine web site hits have
increased considerably, and I think it's because of the word Rome repeated
several times through out the text. If this is the case then we have a large
crop of potential members heading our way.
If we each take a non citizen under our wing, (those who have the time, of
course) we can educate them be more Roman. Plus we can recruit them for each
of our gens. Then they can take their place as Romans.

About unofficial lists. I see nothing wrong with them. Adds to the interest
of the place. They are unofficial and do not include the name "Nova Roma."
So what's the harm?
Valete
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Other Lists
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:31:24 -0500 (EST)

Salve Ctizens of Nova Roma;

In regard to other lists in Nova Roma has been suggested on at leas two
ocasions by the Webmaster, both as a way to reduce traffic on the Main
List, and also a way to channel the energies of those citizens who have
a special favotite topic(S).

These lists I believe are still encouraged by the Webmaster, and having
a Qualified and Mature Moderator is the only real requirement. It has
been suggested that the Sodalitas Militaria have it's own List and I am
seriously considering that. There is, I believe. a Religio List, and
there is an unrelated list "Back Alley" which is for fun and relaxation.
I do not believe that anything said in the past few days is about
limiting communication, but I for one, and from your messages, you
citizens did not agree that "T" would be a Qualified and Mature
Mderator, and he in creating these lists, had totally igored our
appointed Webmaster.

I would ask that you consider the above, take your List ideas to the
Webmaster and find out what is required for her approval, if there is
any. I find that Quaestor Cassia is a delight to work with, and has on
sveral occasions bent over backward to assist and work with me in the
matter of several different application. I cannot think of anyone now
on his list who would not be a Qualified and Mature Moderator.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Marcus Minucius Audens;
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Concerning several things
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:59:36 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/12/99 1:19:05 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< Closing the List to Non Roman Citizens:
Bad. Why? Because we come across as elitist snobs. >>

And what's wrong with being an elitist snob? LOL

But seriously...the web site contains more than enough info for someone to
make an intelligent decision to become a citizen. The organization is open to
all...the list should be for citizens only. I am however in favor of a 3
strike program for non citizens if we do continue to allow them on the list.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Back Alley (was List traffic)
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:00:47 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 2:44:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< Good point, Dex. Would you post the information here on how to join the
Back Alley, for the benefit of anyone who would enjoy such an environment? >>

For anyone interested in joining the Back Alley list, contact Crystallina at
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------;

She is the list manager and is responsible for signing on all new members.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Back to normal, I hope
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:18:06 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 3:56:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< I hope we can now return to more rational topics. For instance,
Crystallina
posted a question about Roman wedding customs. Does anyone know of any
resources where she might be able to find an answer?
>>
Oh darnation I can't find my Roman costume book that has a great section on
wedding clothes and a little bit about customs. I do beleive that you will be
needing a red veil. There is alot more legel stuff that involves tranferes of
legal owership of the wife...darn I just can't find my book.
I think I will do a web search and try to fiond some more or at least the
title of that book! NO I wonder who I loaned it to.....

P. A. Olivia


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:28:58 -0600 (CST)

On 03/12/99 16:01:55 you wrote:
>
>From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
>We've had a couple of requests to close the e-mail list to non-citizens.
>In light of the most recent conflicts this seems like a good idea. But I
>know there are several of you out there who joined the list to sample the
>community before deciding whether or not to join. So I'm asking for
>opinions: Would you have joined if you hadn't had the opportunity to get
>to know Nova Roma a little bit first? Are we risking alienating anyone if
>we take this step?

I don't think we need to close the list, but I do think we need to monitor it a little more closely. Someone who is disrupting the list and obviously
doing it deliberately should not be allowed to post over 100 messages before being booted.

-- Flavia Claudia

"I don't care if he's fornicatin'
Long as I got my plastic Satan
Sinnin' on the dashboard of my car..."


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:37:34 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 3:59:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< So I'm asking for
opinions: Would you have joined if you hadn't had the opportunity to get
to know Nova Roma a little bit first? Are we risking alienating anyone if
we take this step? >>

I believe there is enough information on the website for a potential citizen
to make an intelligent decision to join Nova Roma. Sampling the list will not
make or break a citizenship decision. It is here for communication and
educational purposes only. Citizenship is free and joining the list is free.
And resigning is also easy to do as well. I vote to keep the list tight and
secure by keeping it closed to outsiders. I would say we not expel current
non-citizens but going forward keep the list open only to citizens.

I do not think we are alienating ourselves or coming across as elitist snobs.
Anyone can join NR and we should all be ambassadors of the Republic while on
other lists.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Roman women link
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:52:16 EST

While i haven't found my book I do have a nice web page that might offer some
answere

<a href="http://www.realm-of-shade.com/RomanaeAntiquae/" target="_top" >http://www.realm-of-shade.com/RomanaeAntiquae/</a>

I like to just browse through the pages.

P.A. Olivia


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:55:01 -0500

Salvete, Quirites

As some may know I have been a proponet of stricter requirements of
citizenship. I also think that there ought to be a citizens only Forum
(perhaps for election or voting purposes). However, I would not like to see
us take this step in making the current list exclusive to citizens. As has
been stated we have gained valuable citizens through the 'open' list and I
believe we should continue with the present policy. We have learned (and no
doubt will continue to learn) lessons on how to deal with "barbarian
incursions". Last year we had to change the chat room after some incidence,
"The infamous Chat Wars" but we weathered that just like we will overcome
this, with Roman virtues like, Firmitas: "Tenacity" Strength of mind, the
ability to stick to one's purpose.
What we need is a posted policy that will delineate what will result in
removal from the list. Also,
and I would not like to see freedom of expression limited but perhaps if
there is a consensus of Senatores or magistrates demanding the removal of an
offender then this could be done more expeditiously. I was, during this
latest incedent, wishing the offending parties would just go away.
( I had thoughts of snowbound teenagers with nothing better to do than
bother us). I hope that we
will be able to come up with something soon but I think that a posted policy
will suffice for all but the most obnoxious and those can just have
themselves booted ignominiously. There is a well worded
welcome to the 'religious' list that would serve as a wonderful model. I
will send it to the moderator if I can find it.
I do wish to thak those citizens who stood up for the honor of Nova
Roma!
Mille Grati vobis ago!

Mars nos a baronibus barbaricisque protegis!
Mars protect us from Boneheads and Barbarians!

Valete, Consul Lucius Equitius

>From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
>We've had a couple of requests to close the e-mail list to non-citizens.
>In light of the most recent conflicts this seems like a good idea. But I
>know there are several of you out there who joined the list to sample the
>community before deciding whether or not to join. So I'm asking for
>opinions: Would you have joined if you hadn't had the opportunity to get
>to know Nova Roma a little bit first? Are we risking alienating anyone if
>we take this step?
>
>Patricia


Subject:	Re: [Fw: What really happened at Troy!!
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:00:03 -0600 (CST)

This was truly funny!
I especially love Hector's e-mail address at studmuffin.com!

We could use more historical jokes....

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Pustule
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:32:07 EST

From: "Jason Kopeny" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=045202253115056116187218141036129208" >jkopeny@--------</a>

> In this case I fear I must disagree with you. By closing this list
>completely to any non-citizen of NR, I think you put a serious block in your
>way to recruiting new members. I had never heard of NR before I stumbled
>across this list on the OneList web page. If your aim is to allow people to
>discover NR and to bring like-minded individuals into the fold, I believe
>you must leave this list open to outsiders so that this can happen.
>
>Jason

I must agree. I suggest that the list not automatically exclude
non-citizens, but they be promptly ejected (i.e., unsubscribed)
individually if they misbehave here.

L. Sergius Aust.


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:37:26 EST

In a message dated 99-03-12 09:28:17 EST, you write:

> Yep...the Back Alley List is not an official NR list. That's what makes it
> great. There are no confines associated with being a sponsored list. It
is
> however, only open to citizens of NR. Isn't that right Crystalina?
>
> --Dexippus

You betcha!!!!!! AND my list is better moderated and censored. I'll throw ya
off in a heartbeat!!

Crys


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:43:47 EST

In a message dated 99-03-12 09:53:04 EST, you write:

>
> Get over yourself Australicanus! Crystallina is a Nova Roman citizen and
> not
> an interloper as you so put it. If you don't like the Back Alley...don't
> apply to it. The name has been changed so all the sensitivities of some of
> our more puritan citizens should not be offended anymore.
>
> --Dexippus

Like he could get on without a MAJOR donation to the Roman Childrens
Fund!!!!!!!!! Cash only BTW!!!!!

Crys (done pussyfootin)


Subject:	Re: Nuisances gone, now let's get back to Nova Roma
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:45:12 EST

In a message dated 99-03-12 10:16:14 EST, you write:

> I hope we can now return to more rational topics. For instance, Crystallina
> posted a question about Roman wedding customs. Does anyone know of any
> resources where she might be able to find an answer?
>
> Patricia Cassia

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

I was begining to feel blacklisted -- no pun intended <G>

Crys


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:33:09 -0600

Salvete Omnes!

If I may reiterate my position. I do not think that closing the NR List to non-Citizens is the answer. Before I applied for Citizenship, I lurked. I
found the repartee to be quite useful in forming my decision to apply. The pre-Citizens have been most gracious and informative, while most of the
non-Citizens have been good guests..

Perhaps some way could be found to form a commitee of Vigliae Telus to assist the Domina Telus in "policing" this list, as a non-chatroom alternative to
the Taverna. I would suggest that if a majority of the Vigilae agree the offending party needs to go, then the Domina is alerted and asked to execute
the penalty, her's being the final say as owner of the list.

A new list for Cives could be formed as an ongoing Marketplace, using one's voter's code as a password?

mea sententia - Venator


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:50:17 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 3/12/99 3:42:08 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
writes:

<< I vote to keep the list tight and
secure by keeping it closed to outsiders. I would say we not expel current
non-citizens but going forward keep the list open only to citizens. >>
Salvete
I vote no against the esteemed Auger's proposal for reasons I outlined
earlier.
Vale
QFM


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:58:52 EST

In a message dated 99-03-12 12:20:29 EST, you write:

> There have been calls for new lists, restricting the creation of unofficial
> lists, and barring non-citizens from this official list. I'll here throw
my
> $.02 at these proposals.
>
> First of all, I don't think that it's practical or desirable to try to
limit
> the generation of new lists associated one way or another with Nova Roma.
> If someone among us is dying to talk about things that are not well covered
> or received on this main list, why not encourage them to make a separate
> list? And, if some barbarus makes an anti-list, so be it. Such an
> anti-list would most likely whither away soon enough.

YEA!!! I have been DYING to get information for my childhood webpage and have
gotten about 3 replies to my requests for information (and all private) since
I asked last November (in there somewhere). Children are not well recieved
here, I guess.

This 'new list' debate is not new. It's been suggested and rejected before.
You don't like the volume or content of your email but you whine like crazy
whenever someone proposes to branch and create a forum for something. No, my
list and Pythas list are NOT official, but obviously they are needed or they
wouldn't be doing as well as they are (I don't know about the Religio list,
but the Back Alley is doing great!!!). I for one would LOVE to see a history
list get started. The talk of politics makes me sick, so I would love to see
a list for politics so I could not join it!!

What's the big flippin deal?? Who among us is so paranoid that they cannot
stand to see this list branch? And who is so nasty as to wish these lists
failure? Don't tell me, let me guess... I'm missing the point! So what else
is new??

Crys


Subject:	List Closure
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:37:51 -0800

I feel that closing the list to just citizens only is a bad idea for a
few reasons. NR has always been open. We are an open society. Our
mailing list is a reflection of that. We might have other individuals
who lurk on the list to gain knowledge that we have learned. Mailing
lists to me are a medium to exchange knowledge. Lets continue our
present course....over one year has passed and we have had only one
serious problem with non citizens. Isn't this overreacting a bit?

As a matter of fact, I think this would be a very good opportunity to
revive one of Ancient Rome's customs. That would be the establishment
of a patron client relationship. Q.Fabius mentioned it earlier in a
sponsorship program where, we the veterans of the list would take a
newbie under our wings. I think that has is really promising. And, if
a program such as this is enacted I would be one of the first to
volunteer to assist our new citizens.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	Proposal----Main List
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:37:40 -0500 (EST)

I have undertaken to collect the comments about the Main List and who
should be allowed on the list,based on our last little go-around.

I base my perceptions on some ideas that have arisen in my mind since I
have been associated with Nova Roma. They are as follows:

--Citizens don't need disruptions in their daily enjoyment of this list;

-There a quite a number of Citizens whose religious feelings closely are
allied with the security of the Main List;

- All citizens it appears to me are willing to welcome newcomers and
give them 60% to 40% to help them along. That has been my experience
and the experience of others;

-The Web-Page is clearly written in regard to who we are, what we are
trying to do, and what we are all about.

Flavia Claudia is right that we should not have to wait for 100 messages
to go by before we decide that a firm stand must be taken. We all hope
it will get better but it does not. The above points will be agreed
upon to some extent by all, and now comes the hard part. My Proposal is
as follows and I ask that if you have a suggestion on how to better it,
or if you can possibly concur with this Proposal that you consider doing
so. I will not send this proposal to the Consul until we have
concurrence, but I beg you to remember that we must do someting:

I Propose:

--That we establish officially that any two magistrates who are on the
list during such a mess as we endured earlier this week, comment to the
problem person with a copy to the Webmaster. upon receipt of the third
magistrate's complaint, the prson is automatically ejected from the list
for 24 hours, and the magistrates discuss future actions;

--That we establish a warning paque on entry to the list, appraising
anyone entering that the guidelies for the use of the Main List are:

-No Cursing;
-No attacks on persons or beliefs on he listt;
-Off-list ideas and comments will be taken off list
immediately;
-Arguments and Justifications to identified
Magistrates will not be tolerated;
- Ideas will be limited to the areas of NR goals;

--That three other magistrates have the ability to "shut off" anyone for
24 hours in case our Webmaster is not available ( I would suggest a
Consul, a Religious Leader, and another Magistrate who is on the list
quite a bit and bth can and will take action immediately.

-- The above ideas be put into action immediately, with the proviso that
if this sytem does not work well, that the next action is to close the
Main List for visitors, and create something like a "Market Place" list
where new comers may meet and talk with NR Citizens, but which can be
turned off without depriving one's self of the Main List.

I have shamelessly borrowed the excellent ideas of any number of
Citizens and these ideas make up almost the whole of this proposal. I
thank you very much for the ideas, and I say again that workable ides
with plans on how to make them work are always welcome here.

I thank for for your kind attention, and here is my proposal;

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:39:00 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites.

I too shall reiterate my position:

Let our list remain open.
Let our minds remain open.
Let our hearts remain open.
Let our society remain open.
Let our Republic remain open.

Let us emulate the proud and confident Rome of the Scipiones, not the
miserable and cowering Rome of Romulus Augustulus.

Let us aspire to Republican Rome's greatness by greeting the world with an
open hand, and show a closed fist only to those few who understand no other
form of discourse.

May the gods protect the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

Valete.

Marcus Martianus Gangalius

-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>

Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria


Subject:	Newbie / Oldie Team-up
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:53:06 -0500 (EST)

I agree that this is a good idea. Different aspects of this idea have
worked well for me in the Navy, in Scouting, in re-enacting and at work.
It is not a hard thing to do, and is most gratifying to the newbie to be
taken care of by an experienced person.

However, since all the Magistrates are very much taken up with their
heavy load of duties, and what Magistrate is not; I respectfully suggest
that this be primarily a Citizen's duty to do, not a Magistrate. I
think that we all wish to see Citizens more actively employed in the
"selling" of Nova Roma, and this is really an excellent way.
Magistrates can of course talk with newcomers, but give the Citizens a
chance before jumping in, it just might work!!!! If no-ne is willing to
take on a newbie after some time on the list, then if you have nothing
to do as an appointed Magistrate, then offer your services.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: new lists
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:00:32 EST

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------;
>
>In a message dated 99-03-12 09:53:04 EST, you write:
>
>>
>> Get over yourself Australicanus! Crystallina is a Nova Roman citizen and
>> not
>> an interloper as you so put it. If you don't like the Back Alley...don't
>> apply to it. The name has been changed so all the sensitivities of some
of
>> our more puritan citizens should not be offended anymore.
>>
>> --Dexippus
>
>Like he could get on without a MAJOR donation to the Roman Childrens
>Fund!!!!!!!!! Cash only BTW!!!!!
>
>Crys (done pussyfootin)

Salve Crys,

This individual (whose posts I don't even see unless they're quoted
elsewhere, as here) is apparently at it again. I haven't called you an
interloper or even addressed anything to you. Nor have I mentioned the
Back Alley list at all, let alone in a derogatory way. I was under the
impression that it was an official NR list. It should be. As a matter of
fact, I believe it was I who origiginally suggested the name and the
list, so that this list could be reserved for more serious posts.

I don't know what sort of perverse thrill this individual gets out of
twisting messages to create dissension where there is none, but I don't
play his games anymore. Please don't let him fool you into thinking I've
spoken against you or your list.

Best wishes,

Lucius Sergius Australicus

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Proposal----Main List
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:00:36 EST

In a message dated 3/12/99 4:37:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< --That we establish a warning plaque on entry to the list, appraising
anyone entering that the guidelines for the use of the Main List are:

-No Cursing;
-No attacks on persons or beliefs on he list;
-Off-list ideas and comments will be taken off list
immediately;
-Arguments and Justifications to identified
Magistrates will not be tolerated;
- Ideas will be limited to the areas of NR goals; >>

Salvete.

This is sorely needed. It gives the guidelines of proper list behavior. I
just have one
some point. What is considered an off list idea? Grabbing Roman land and
building cities some would argue is On the other hand if Bill Gates or another
eccentric billionaire had some suggestions for doing this I'd certainly be
willing to listen.

When you join a list they send you a post containing: instructions, password,
how to subscribe and un subscribe. Why not include these rule of behavior in
that post?
AND ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO SAVE IT!

As for the trio, why is there a religious figure. Why not several Magistrates
alone?
Well, done Audens!
Valete
Q. Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Proposal----Main List
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:05:48 -0600 (CST)

On 03/12/99 20:00:36 you wrote:
>
>
>
>This is sorely needed. It gives the guidelines of proper list behavior. I
>just have one
>some point.

No, it isn't.
We don't need more rules to govern behavior here. We're legislating ourselves to death here over all these petty issues.
Just use some common sense and boot anyone who's causing trouble. If you need "guidelines of proper list behavior," then read the Roman
Virtues on the web page.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Micronation
From:	"M�rcio Oliveira" marcio-oliveira@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:17:51 -0300

To the managers of the list group.

Please take me off of the list. It's almost impossible for me to see what is going
on here and I don't have enough time to read everything that you send. Please,
Idon't want to receive any messages for awhile.

Regards,

Severo Tracius Primus

Pythia escreveu:

> From: Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
>
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------; wrote:
>
> > From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=101056014237018198015098190036129" >Tem----------------</--------;
> >
> > How does everyone here feel about a micronation within a micronation? Perhaps
> > NR could be split, just like ancient rome had the East and West. Those who
> > you call the "15 year old children who dont want to wait" can be on one while
> > the "old hags" are the other. Separate governments, but they would work
> > together. Any thoughts?
> >
> > -
>
> Please go away.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We have a new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services


Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:17:54 -0600 (CST)

On 03/12/99 15:37:51 you wrote:
>
>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>As a matter of fact, I think this would be a very good opportunity to
>revive one of Ancient Rome's customs. That would be the establishment
>of a patron client relationship. Q.Fabius mentioned it earlier in a
>sponsorship program where, we the veterans of the list would take a
>newbie under our wings. I think that has is really promising. And, if
>a program such as this is enacted I would be one of the first to
>volunteer to assist our new citizens.

The client-patron system was one of the worst things about Rome, emphasizing as it did the vast differences between the rich and poor, the
powerful and the supplicant, strengthening the class distinctions, and directly contributing to many of the power struggles and violence that
characteriized Roman political factions.

Also, I'm not fond of the idea that newcomers should be treated any differently than anyone else. If treated politely, they'll learn the ropes soon
enough. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt about their intelligence and not create an "upper class" of oldies/newbies. We've already
had our share of debates over class discrimination here. Why create a new class? Which is, in essence, what we would be doing. It's patronizing
to a newcomer. Greet them, make them feel welcome, and try to answer their questions. They'll be old hands fast!

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:13:49 -0500

Salvete Venator et alii

:From: Mega--------bin--------<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
:
:
:If I may reiterate my position. I do not think that closing the NR List to
non-Citizens is the answer. Before I applied for Citizenship, I lurked. I
:found the repartee to be quite useful in forming my decision to apply.

Well, that proves it. We should not hasten to close the list outright. If
Venator had not joined, we would all still think that the Romans had nothing
like pasta :)!

The pre-Citizens have been most gracious and informative, while most of the
:non-Citizens have been good guests..

Unfortunately, I think that the most prominent events are the negative ones.
We have just had...well, you were here and know what it was. We should
expect a repetition sooner or later, and so I believe that something should
be done.
:
:Perhaps some way could be found to form a commitee of Vigliae Telus to
assist the Domina Telus in "policing" this list, as a non-chatroom
alternative to
:the Taverna. I would suggest that if a majority of the Vigilae agree the
offending party needs to go, then the Domina is alerted and asked to execute
:the penalty, her's being the final say as owner of the list.

And/or, even easier, the magistrates, or any grouping among them, could
write up a policy defining what constitutes unnacceptable use of this list.
Patricia Cassia could implement the policy, and/or call for assistants
(although I firmly believe that she is quite capable of unsubscribing the
1-2 offenders every few months or as the case may be) to help her implement
it.

I suggest that non-citizens on the list get 2 or at most 3 chances, then get
the boot at Patricia Cassia's (and/or her assistant's) discretion. Now,
this is not the same as revoking citizenship, not at all. Let me stress
that again: I am not for removing anyone's citizenship without a trial, or,
in a real emergency, a senatus consultum.

But, we really should anticipate more barbarian incursions, as Cincinnatus
has pointed out, and we should be ready for them. I say, if a barbarian
subscribes to this list and causes mayhem (dumping on the Religio Romana,
dumping on other religions, swearing at us, cursing our Republic and our
mores et cetera), and persists after Patricia Cassia's warning, let him/her
be listed as a barbarian in our records to the best of our ability; such
deeds are indicative of the type of person who really need not apply for
citizenship as far as I am concerned.
:
:A new list for Cives could be formed as an ongoing Marketplace, using one's
voter's code as a password?

I think that this idea of using a password may be key when a voter-debate or
other political list is created, which has been mentioned by both current
consuls in the past.
:
:mea sententia - Venator
:
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Sodalis Militarium - Resources
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:50:54 -0600

Avete Omnes;

Here's a few links for those interested in researching armor, with a possible thought to constructing their own. I have found them
to be of use in mine own efforts.

In Amicus -- Venator

Littlehawk Productions: a video series on making plate armour, with full size patterns. These are geared towards the
Medieval/Renaissance Era, but the basic techniques would appertain to a Lorica Segmenta, Helmet and Greaves.
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~LittleHawk_Prod/index.htm" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/~LittleHawk_Prod/index.htm</a>

Patterns for elbow, knee, hand and shoulder protection.
<a href="http://www.daft.com/~galon/armor/" target="_top" >http://www.daft.com/~galon/armor/</a>

Patterns for helmets, shoulder, knee, and elbow armor, plus basket-type hilts for swords.
<a href="http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~cwn/" target="_top" >http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~cwn/</a>

A pattern for an articulated gauntlet with movable thumb.
<a href="http://www.isd.net/cdavis/pattern.html" target="_top" >http://www.isd.net/cdavis/pattern.html</a>

Two other places you should check out for more patterns, and general armour help. They also have text articles on armoring and
lots of links.

The Armour Archive --
<a href="http://www.armourarchive.com/frameset.html" target="_top" >http://www.armourarchive.com/frameset.html</a>
The Arador Armour Library --
<a href="http://www.concentric.net/~vistar/arador/armour1.html" target="_top" >http://www.concentric.net/~vistar/arador/armour1.html</a>


Subject:	Re: Proposal----Main List
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:06:42 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Omnes.

As you all know, I am strongly in favor of an open list; however, it should
not surprise you that I also believe in having a procedure in place to put
down verbal rioting when it occurs. When the Roman virtues are found to be
lacking in an individual, the magistrates must act in a timely manner to
restore a certain level of decorum that is necessary to the functioning of a
civil society.

I therefore rise in support of Quaestor Marcus Minucius Audens' proposal.
It is a sorely needed step in the right direction. Some of us may differ on
details, but it is a solid basis for debate.

For my own part, I believe that the concurrence of only two magistrates
should be sufficient to remove an offender from the list for 24 hours. I
further suggest that, if the Webmaster is unavailable, a designated
lieutenant in the web team should have the authority to act in her absence.
The concurrence of a third magistrate would authorize the Webmaster or her
designated lieutenant to remove the offender permanently.

May the gods protect the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

Valete.

Marcus Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>

Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria


Subject:	Re: Proposal----Main List
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:16:06 -0500

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii

From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------br>

You asked for feedback thusly-
My Proposal is as follows and I ask that if you have a suggestion on how to
better it, or if you can possibly concur with this Proposal that you
consider doing
so. I will not send this proposal to the Consul until we have
concurrence, but I beg you to remember that we must do someting:

I Propose:

And I'm too happy to provide some-

--That we establish officially that any two magistrates who are on the
list during such a mess as we endured earlier this week, comment to the
problem person with a copy to the Webmaster. upon receipt of the third
magistrate's complaint, the prson is automatically ejected from the list
for 24 hours, and the magistrates discuss future actions;

GMM-I believe that the above piece is, from an administrative point of view,
a little more complex than it need be. It only takes one person to
unsubscribe people from the list. I trust any one of our magistrates to
recognize violations of acceptable list conduct. By default, Quaestor
Patricia Cassia would be handling this task, since she has, I believe, thus
far been moderating the list. Also, your proposal should include, I think,
a warning to the offender before action is taken agains him/her.

MMA--That we establish a warning paque on entry to the list, appraising
anyone entering that the guidelies for the use of the Main List are:

-No Cursing;
-No attacks on persons or beliefs on he listt;
-Off-list ideas and comments will be taken off list
immediately;
-Arguments and Justifications to identified
Magistrates will not be tolerated;
- Ideas will be limited to the areas of NR goals;

GMM-Audens, you'll have each and every one of us bounced off of this list in
no time if your proposal is adopted and enforced. Is my current activity an
attack on a person or a belief? It could be interpreted as such. Let me
suggest the following:

--No foul or obscene language
--No attacks of a personal or character-bashing nature
--No off-topic posts

--That three other magistrates have the ability to "shut off" anyone for
24 hours in case our Webmaster is not available ( I would suggest a
Consul, a Religious Leader, and another Magistrate who is on the list
quite a bit and bth can and will take action immediately.

GMM--too complicated. If the Webmaster is to be absent, he/she would notify
other magistrate(s). Whichever magistrate(s) he/she so notified would then
be able to unsub an offender if necessary.

-- The above ideas be put into action immediately, with the proviso that
if this sytem does not work well, that the next action is to close the
Main List for visitors, and create something like a "Market Place" list
where new comers may meet and talk with NR Citizens, but which can be
turned off without depriving one's self of the Main List.

GMM--Let's put it into effect, then worry about what to do if it doesn't
work.

Oh, and I would add

--Non-citizen subscribers to the onelist who force Nova Roma's magistrate to
unsubscribe them from the onelist are to be proscribed: any information,
including name, alias, physical, postal or electronic addresses, and/or ICQ
##, et cetera, that Nova Roma has about the offending individual is to be
recorded for the purpose of barring the offender from attaining citizenship
within Nova Roma.

MMA-I have shamelessly borrowed the excellent ideas of any number of
Citizens and these ideas make up almost the whole of this proposal. I
thank you very much for the ideas, and I say again that workable ides
with plans on how to make them work are always welcome here.

I thank for for your kind attention, and here is my proposal;

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:22:54 -0500

Salvete Marce Martiane et alii

:
:I too shall reiterate my position:
:
:Let our list remain open.
:Let our minds remain open.
:Let our hearts remain open.
:Let our society remain open.
:Let our Republic remain open.

That was nice. But earlier, you compared yourself to Cicero after you
convinced a barbarus to leave. For which, by the way, I thank you.
:
:Let us emulate the proud and confident Rome of the Scipiones, not the
:miserable and cowering Rome of Romulus Augustulus.

Yes, I agree.
:
:Let us aspire to Republican Rome's greatness by greeting the world with an
:open hand, and show a closed fist only to those few who understand no other
:form of discourse.

Right, but, let us practice closing that fist a bit, so that those few do
not make us suffer.
:
:May the gods protect the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
:
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Proposal----Main List
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:31:24 -0500

Salvete Claudia et alii

:From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
:
:>This is sorely needed. It gives the guidelines of proper list behavior.
I
:>just have one
:>some point.
:
:No, it isn't.
:We don't need more rules to govern behavior here. We're legislating
ourselves to death here over all these petty issues.

Actually, we have no legislation, except for the Constitution.

:Just use some common sense and boot anyone who's causing trouble.

Whose common sense? Who boots whom, and for what, when and why. Some sort
of policy is needed if the list is to be monitored fairly and effectively.

If you need "guidelines of proper list behavior," then read the Roman
:Virtues on the web page.

Those are good personal guidelines to which to aspire. Let's not forget
that those virtues were up on the site for L Marconius Romanus and everyone
else to read from months back. And yet, offenses have continued, and will
inevitably continue.

It's not the end of the world. But it also is quite lousy to read all
the...pus, as Gangalius has aptly named it. So let's have a defined way to
lance the pustules.
:
:-- Flavia Claudia

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:40:33 -0500

Salvete Sulla et Claudia et alii

:From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
:
:On 03/12/99 15:37:51 you wrote:
:>
:>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
:>
:>As a matter of fact, I think this would be a very good opportunity to
:>revive one of Ancient Rome's customs. That would be the establishment
:>of a patron client relationship. Q.Fabius mentioned it earlier in a

:The client-patron system was one of the worst things about Rome,
emphasizing as it did the vast differences between the rich and poor, the
:powerful and the supplicant, strengthening the class distinctions, and
directly contributing to many of the power struggles and violence that
:characteriized Roman political factions.

Hmm...I'm having trouble coming up with ammunition to throw at Claudia's
assertion. Do we really want to institute patron/client?
:
:Also, I'm not fond of the idea that newcomers should be treated any
differently than anyone else. If treated politely, they'll learn the ropes
soon
:enough. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt about their
intelligence and

I was a newbie not long ago, maybe still am by someone's standards. In a
sense, all of you who were here before me are my patrons; I have learned
about Nova Roma by example and reading answers to explicit questions.

I think that there may be a place for patron/client relationships (I lean
that way because it was an element of Roman society), but it should not be
institutionalized, that is, we should not write down any policy or law that
defines it or promotes it.
:
:-- Flavia Claudia
:
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
:


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:40:45 -0500


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:40:57 -0500


Subject:	Re: Closing the e-mail list to non-citizens
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:36:33 -0800

> From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> We've had a couple of requests to close the e-mail list to non-citizens.
> In light of the most recent conflicts this seems like a good idea. But I
> know there are several of you out there who joined the list to sample the
> community before deciding whether or not to join. So I'm asking for
> opinions: Would you have joined if you hadn't had the opportunity to get
> to know Nova Roma a little bit first? Are we risking alienating anyone if
> we take this step?
>
> Patricia

I believe it would be a bad move to close the list to all but full citizens of
Nova Roma.I also believe that such a move would not garnet the list would be
free of such distractions, abuse, and all that other nastiness. Think back!
Some of our worse wars were started by citizens. It is one of the problems that
we will have. What we need is to be able to deal with trouble more quickly.
Put out the fires before we get a conflagration.
Not to restrict citizens, and guests, from communicating in our fora.

Ericius


Subject:	Re: Back to normal, I hope
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:44:21 -0800

Salve, Cassia.

I've been deleting a lot the last few days. I have seen references to list
subscribers being restricted to the number of posts they are allowed to make in
a day. I am assuming that this was a probationary restriction placed on an
alleged troublemaker. Yet I have seen other references that have made me wonder
if it is a much broader applied brush stroke.

Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius


Subject:	Sod. Mil.: News Article 04/85
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:56:03 -0600

Salus et Fortuna Omnes!

I have enclosed an article from "Stars and Stripes" which I first read
in late April of 1985. I apologize to those of you who are unable to
receive attachments, Audens in particular, e-mail me if you would like a
hardcopy. The article is about a group styled "Living History in
Europe," a Roman Legionary re-creation society and an educational
demonstration they performed at the middle school in Heidelburg,
Germany.

Audens, I'll mail you a photo copy, with a bottle of the Pyment which I
make (again, Vivat Legate!).

In Amicus -- Venator