Subject:	[Fw: What really happened at Troy!!
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:24:42 +0000

>
> > > >WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
> > > >
> > > >IF YOU RECEIVE A GIFT IN THE SHAPE OF A LARGE WOODEN HORSE DO NOT
> > > >DOWNLOAD IT!!!! It is EXTREMELY DESTRUCTIVE and will overwrite your
> > ENTIRE
> > > >CITY!
> > > >
> > > >The "gift" is disguised as a large wooden horse about two stories
> > > >tall. It tends to show up outside the city gates and appears to be
> > > >abandoned. DO NOT let it through the gates! It contains hardware that
> > > >is incompatible with Trojan programming, including a crowd of heavily
> > > >armed Greek warriors that will destroy your army, sack your town, and
> > > >kill your women and children. If you have already received such a
> > > >gift, DO NOT OPEN IT! Take it back out of the city unopened and set
> > > >fire to it by the beach.
> > > >
> > > >FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!
> > > >
> > > >Poseidon
> > > >
> > > >******************************
> > > >
> > > >FROM: <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=180056219165193209015232190036129" >hector@--------</a>
> > > >mailto:<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=180056219165193209015232190036129" >hector@--------</a>mailto:<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=180056219165193209015232190036129" >hector@--------</a>
> > > >TO: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034166253098193190172218004036129208" >laocoon@--------</a>
> > > ><mailto:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034166253098193190172218004036129208" >laocoon@--------</a>mailto:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034166253098193190172218004036129208" >laocoon@--------</a>
> > > >RE: Greeks bearing gifts
> > > >
> > > >Laocoon,
> > > >
> > > >I hate to break to you, but this is one of the oldest hoaxes there
> > > >is. I've seen variants on this warning come through on other listservs,
> > > >one involving some kind of fruit that was supposed to kill the people
> > > >who ate it and one having to do with something called the "Midas Touch."
> > > >
> > > >Here are a few tipoffs that this is a hoax:
> > > >
> > > >1) This "Forward this message to everyone you know" business. If it
> > > >were really meant as a warning about the Greek army, why tell anyone to
> > > >post it to the Phoenicians, Sumerians, and Cretans?
> > > >
> > > >2) Use of exclamation points. Always a giveaway.
> > > >
> > > >3) It's signed "from Poseidon." Granted he's had his problems with
> > > >Odysseus but he's one of their guys, isn't he? Besides, the lack of a
> > > >real header with a detailed address makes me suspicious.
> > > >
> > > >4) Technically speaking, there is no way for a horse to overwrite
> > > >your entire city. A horse is just an animal, after all.
> > > >
> > > >Next time you get a message like this, just delete it. I appreciate
> > > >your concern, but once you've been around the block a couple times you'll
> > > >realize how annoying this kind of stuff is.
> > > >
> > > >Bye now,
> > > >
> > > >Hector
> >

Subject:	Huge Post I sent
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:09:50 -0600

Avete Omnes;

I must apologize for the size of that last post I sent. Hencforth, I'll
temper my enthusiasm and send just a text description with an offer of
privately e-mailing any images.

-- Venator

Subject:	Re: is this a solution?
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:42:31 -0600 (CST)

>:From: Mega--------bin--------<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015232190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
>::
>:If I may reiterate my position. I do not think that closing the NR List to
>non-Citizens is the answer. Before I applied for Citizenship, I lurked. I
>:found the repartee to be quite useful in forming my decision to apply.
>
And Merullus said:

>Well, that proves it. We should not hasten to close the list outright. If
>Venator had not joined, we would all still think that the Romans had nothing
>like pasta :)!

Merullus, I shudder to think about NR without Venator! Who'd make the mead? Who'd cook those cherry-cookie dealies?

Look, this is a simple problem that we share with just about every e-list on the Internet. And to a simple problem, we've proposed some baroque
solutions. The real problem is that the only one who can boot is Patricia Cassia, and she's not always available. She has a life -- I know, she's got
SOME nerve, but there you go. She can't be here all the time, and by the time someone lets her know what's going on, the damage is done.

So the simplest solution is to give one or both Consuls the ability to boot disrupters off the e-list after a couple of warnings. We elected these
guys -- if we don't trust them enough to run things, we've got bigger problems than a couple of idiots amusing themselves on the e-list.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:21:32 -0800

<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> On 03/12/99 15:37:51 you wrote:
> >
> >From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >As a matter of fact, I think this would be a very good opportunity to
> >revive one of Ancient Rome's customs. That would be the establishment
> >of a patron client relationship. Q.Fabius mentioned it earlier in a
> >sponsorship program where, we the veterans of the list would take a
> >newbie under our wings. I think that has is really promising. And, if
> >a program such as this is enacted I would be one of the first to
> >volunteer to assist our new citizens.
>
> The client-patron system was one of the worst things about Rome, emphasizing as it did the vast differences between the rich and poor, the
> powerful and the supplicant, strengthening the class distinctions, and directly contributing to many of the power struggles and violence that
> characteriized Roman political factions.
>
> Also, I'm not fond of the idea that newcomers should be treated any differently than anyone else. If treated politely, they'll learn the ropes soon
> enough. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt about their intelligence and not create an "upper class" of oldies/newbies. We've already
> had our share of debates over class discrimination here. Why create a new class? Which is, in essence, what we would be doing. It's patronizing
> to a newcomer. Greet them, make them feel welcome, and try to answer their questions. They'll be old hands fast!
>

Regardless on how it affected ancient Rome, which, had some very positive effects as well as negative ones too. It would be a way to strengthen and
tie our new citizens and even potential citizens to how NR thinks. Yes we have the website, and a very good website it is. :) But, even our citizens
have questions on interpretation of that site. This would be a very good way that citizens help one another in understanding NR's goals, our
expectations, and our own way of meeting each other. We are a micronation, and we are growing, we need a way to harness our enthusiastic new citizens
in a way that would be productive for them as well as us.

Granted in ancient Rome, there were abuses in the patron/client relationship. Nothing ever is perfect. But, we can do this that would be completely
voluntary to those who would like to participate, and we would be creating a very Roman institution at the same time, bringing us closer to the past,
so to speak.

If we could say, create a web page, that would give a brief introduction of what the goal of this program is. And list the members of Nova Roma that
feel they want to participate in this program. Then, if when a newbie signs up to the mailing list, we would refer them to that page, or even if they
don't want to sign up to the mailing list, they would have citizens that are approachable to answer their questions regarding any aspect of Nova Roma.
This type of program might be very beneficial to some of our recent additions such as: Tamele, ENGFLAN, or any other newbie.

This wouldn't be a political institution that would be established. Nor would this create any other bureaucratic entanglement, so it would not
interfere with the government of Nova Roma, as a matter of fact, it might elevate our government of some responsibilities and issues that our very busy

and competent Senators face; since the list wouldn't be so clogged, and our Senator's e-mail wouldn't be inundated with requests to close the list and
other issues that arise out of these situations. Also, the Senate would be able to accomplish their own goals and objectives. In essence, this
program would be citizen helping citizen program. What better way could we better illustrate or civic virtue than to help educate our newest members?

I believe, that this would benefit Nova Roma.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:42:07 EST

Salve Lucius Cornelius

The patronage system in Rome was a distasteful custom that I would not
like to see implemented in Nova Roma. New citizens do not need a
"godfather" to dispense help or answers to their questions. They can ask
magistrates, or they can ask other citizens. If they were supposed to ask
just a "patron," then they would receive only that individual's point of
view: as we have seen, some citizens have points of view that differ a
great deal from the official NR plans and intents.

However, I'm not certain that what you are proposing really has much to
do with patronage. It sounds more like a mentoring system that you're
talking about. The Roman patronage system was all about obligation and
subservience. It worked against individual freedom and responsibility,
and it undermined the little bit of democracy that existed in government.
Having volunteers available to offer help to newcomers would be closer to
mentoring than to patronage.

[snip]
>Granted in ancient Rome, there were abuses in the patron/client
>relationship. Nothing ever is perfect. But, we can do this that would be
>completely
>voluntary to those who would like to participate, and we would be creating
>a very Roman institution at the same time, bringing us closer to the past,
>so to speak.
There are a great many very Roman institutions that we are very
appropriately declining to re-create. I think the idea of patronage
should remain one of these.

[snip]
>This type of program might be very beneficial to some of our recent
>additions such as: Tamele, ENGFLAN, or any other newbie.

I think that no program would have been beneficial in causing "Scriptus
Frigus Novus" et alia to behave more appropriately. They did what they
came here to do, what they wanted to do..

>This wouldn't be a political institution that would be established. Nor
>would this create any other bureaucratic entanglement, so it would not
>interfere with the government of Nova Roma, as a matter of fact, it might
>elevate our government of some responsibilities and issues that our very busy
>
>and competent Senators face; since the list wouldn't be so clogged, and
>our Senator's e-mail wouldn't be inundated with requests to close the list
>and
>other issues that arise out of these situations. Also, the Senate would
>be able to accomplish their own goals and objectives. In essence, this
>program would be citizen helping citizen program. What better way could
>we better illustrate or civic virtue than to help educate our newest members?

Who here is objecting to "citizen helping citizen?" When you talk about
patronage, though, you're talking about citizens subordinating themselves
to other citizens in return for help. I think we would be better off to
make certain that that doesn't happen in Nova Roma.

Mentoring - yes. Patronage - no.

Vale

L. Sergius Aust.

Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 06:58:11 -0800 (PST)

Salvete omnes.

Perhaps we are entangling ourselves in semantics? It seems to me that Sulla
is introducing a modern concept (mentoring) under an ancient name
(patronage). It seems to me that we needn't fear that the more odious
aspects of patronage in Roma Antigua will take root in Nova Roma. People
just won't stand for it. How can a patron impose subservience upon a
client? The client can just tell the patron to get stuffed!

I do have a question, though. How would a patron be different from a
paterfamilias? It seems to me that if a new (or prospective) citizen feels
the need to be mentored, he or she can apply for adoption into an existing gens.

Vale.

Marcus Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria

Subject:	Mentoring
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:29:16 -0500 (EST)

Gee, I don't think that anyone is putting forth the idea of putting new
citizens under obligation to anyone! The Client-Patron System of Rome
implied that some body owed some thing to someone else. The Mentoring
System proposed by Sulla and supported by several of you on the net, has
to do with friendly help, and is brought forward as a suggestion to the
Citizens, not as a proposed piece of legislation.

There should be no hand out for services received or intimation of owing
for favors / information granted. If Citizens do not wish to
participate then don't participate, if you are good at face to face, one
on one, then it is probably something you will wish to try.

For my part, this was just a reasonable suggestion, with no idea
whatsoever of any link to the Client=Patron situation of ancient Rome.
I fully agree with Senator Flavia Claudia and others who have pointed
out the problems with the above system. As I pointed out in my last
post. "mentoring" is a friendly easy-going way to help others who are
somewhat lost in a new world. It has worked well in the service, at
work, in fraternal organizations, and it WILL work here as well, as long
as the help offered is free of any idea of return favor for attention
received. It is the same friendly greeting that I received when I came
to NR and had a great deal to do with my decision to stay longer.
Apparently others have had the same experience. Nuff Said!!

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Proposal---Main List
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:00:44 -0500 (EST)

In light of Cassia's posts and actions in regard to the Main List I now
withdraw my Proposal--MainList from consideration. I believe it no
longer necessary. I applaud Cassia's actions, thank those who chose to
point out some items in my proposal which were worthy of
reconsideration, and I wish to notify the Consuls that i would be
willing to be an asst. list moderator, if that will assist NR.

I confess that I am perhaps too forward in many ways, and I tend to
think of people as individuals who are enduring unwarranted behavior in
their own selected world as having the right to stop that outrage
immediately. For that characteistic I do apologize, as it often
offends. Unfortunately, two Naval Admirals tried to break that habit
and were never able to do so. I guess we are stuck with me and my
problems for the foreseeable future (<Grin>)!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Proposal---Main List
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:20:27 -0800 (PST)

Ave Quaestor Marcus Minucius Audens!

I am glad to be "stuck" with you. Thank you for putting forward a very
worthwhile proposal.

Vale.

Marcus Martianus Gangalius


>I confess that I am perhaps too forward in many ways, and I tend to
>think of people as individuals who are enduring unwarranted behavior in
>their own selected world as having the right to stop that outrage
>immediately. For that characteistic I do apologize, as it often
>offends. Unfortunately, two Naval Admirals tried to break that habit
>and were never able to do so. I guess we are stuck with me and my
>problems for the foreseeable future (<Grin>)!!
>
>Respectfully;
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>Quaestor
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria

Subject:	Re: Concerning several things
From:	Michael Cessna clinkerbuilt2@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:40:36 -0800 (PST)

>>
<Asiaticus stands, and adjusts his toga> Well, I think I'm going to
have to come down on Dexi's side, here.....but, please, let this be
the ONLY 3-strike rule! <BOSEG>

Gn Marius
>>
>
---<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
>
><--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; writes:
>
> << Closing the List to Non Roman Citizens:
> Bad. Why? Because we come across as elitist snobs. >>
>
> And what's wrong with being an elitist snob? LOL
>
> But seriously...the web site contains more than >enough info for
someone to make an intelligent >decision to become a citizen. The
organization is >open to all...the list should be for citizens only.
I >am however in favor of a 3 strike program for non >citizens if we
do continue to allow them on the list.
>
> --Dexippus
>
>

Subject:	Re: Vatican vs NR
From:	Michael Cessna clinkerbuilt2@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:45:54 -0800 (PST)

>>
Then I will get on the shtick<W>. My understanding is that they
recieve most of their training in Switzerland , although they
cross-over with the Bersaglieri and the carabineri's HRT unit.....
Be back when I have more...........

Gn Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
---James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
>
> Absolutely!! I am very interested in the Vatican Guard. I understand
> from my military contacts that they are a crack unit, and have been
> trained by the best in several aspects. I should like of all things a
> reference or two on this unit. I am not a catholic at all, but this
is
> one aspect of the Vatican, beside the architechture, that I am
> interested in.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
>
> From: Michael Cessna <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=219128020185221198218171228026247222123098100046209130" >clinkerbuilt2@--------</a>
>
> The Vatican Guards are the last remaining Swiss mercenary unit in
> the world. The current guard is the last remnant of a much larger
> force that served the Vatican prior to the unification if Italia.
> Additionally, the Vatican Guard is the sole exception to the treaty of
> 1848(?), where Switzerland agreed never to allow mercenary units to
> depart its borders again.
>
> The size of the Guard is roughly that of an over- strength century.
> In addition to their ceremonial duties, they provide limited
> counter-terrorist/HRT protection.
>
> If anyone wants more info, I'll try to dig it out...
>
>
> Gn Marius Asiaticus
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> We have a new web site!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services
>

Subject:	Re: Paterfamilias
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:26:45 -0600 (CST)

On 03/13/99 06:58:11 you wrote:
>
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>
>I do have a question, though. How would a patron be different from a
>paterfamilias? It seems to me that if a new (or prospective) citizen feels
>the need to be mentored, he or she can apply for adoption into an existing gens.


Now THAT is a good idea. Perhaps even making the adoption temporary or conditional for a few months until both the paterfamilias and the
newcomer are sure that they want to join that particular gens. The job of the head of the family was to teach family members the Virtues and to
introduce them into Roman society: why not here?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: This list's welcome message
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:42:08 -0600 (CST)

On 03/13/99 10:36:02 you wrote:
>
>From: -------- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
>I've tweaked the welcome message to this list to make it more clear that
>participants need to have read the Web site. It now reads:
>
>(snipped)
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Patricia Cassia
>>Quaestor, Nova Roma

That about says it all! Short, sweet and simple.
Thanks, Quaestor.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Patron system
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:23:05 EST

In a message dated 3/13/99 6:58:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

To Marcus Martianus Gangalius from Q. Fabius Maximus.
Salve!
You are a most perceptive man. I do think Sulla was thinking of mentoring
more then true patronage. I know I was in my post. Your and others
explanations point out the problems of true patronage i.e. the relationship
between the two. And I agree that it would not happen here since money and
favors do not change hands. I also agree that this mentoring could be done
through the gens as each gen gains new members, but as we have seen as long as
new members are free to form gens that makes it hard to gain new members.
Perhaps we should advertise, hmmm? I think the youths that invaded last week
would have joined one of our gens if they realized they were available.
Temale, certainly would have.
Vale

Subject:	Re: List administration
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:44:37 EST

In a message dated 3/13/99 7:27:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:

<< In the future, it might keep list traffic down if everyone writes to a
moderator, rather than to the list, when you think someone's behavior
deserves attention. >>
Salvete!
Our noble P. Cassia has come up with an excellent non political solution.
We all should consider this.
Valete
Q. Fabius.

Subject:	Re-Enactors / Military
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:51:39 -0500 (EST)

Why Lucius you surprise me!! You know full well that I would appoint
you commander of any model Roman Naval vessel that you care to build,
complete with a Roman Commission and letter of assignment. From there
my friend, sky is the limit!!! (<Grin>).

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Regarding Christians, Rome and monotheism
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:59:23 -0500 (EST)

I am most appreciative of your most kind remarks Noble Tribune! I am
humbled before your lavish praise1

I guess neither of the "brats" tried to join your Legio. I did try to
encourage them, but I guess I have to work on my delivery (<Grin>)!!

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Roman wedding costume
From:	Oplontian@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:48:17 EST

Salvete,
A little while back there was a question about the kind of clothing a Roman
bride would wear on her wedding day. I found this description, which I hope
is of some use: The bride would wear a special white tunic, ankle length and
short sleeved, the tunica recta (which was supposed to be woven in one piece);
a woolen belt or girdle tied in a Hercules knot;saffron yellow sandals; and a
flame colored gauzy veil, the flammeum. The flammeum would cover the bride's
head and eyes and be long enough to reach her ankles. Her hair would be tied
in six locks with woolen ribbons, and she would wear a wreath either of
verbena and sweet marjoram or myrtle and orange blossom. Very simple and
elegant.
This is from "Costume of Ancient Rome" by David J. Symons, which also has a
color illustration of the bride's costume.
Valete,
Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus

Subject:	Re: Roman wedding costume
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:14:56 -0500 (EST)

There is, down at one of the local dry goods store, a woman who does
sewing for SCA. She isnt very good at it as I had to completely resew
my tunic, which is not that complicated. Any way she has two or three
books with plates about Roman men's and women's wear. I would think
that kind of information would be at Venator's fingertips, since his
Lordship has only to dispatch a lackey to the village seamstress for the
titles of the books.

What about it, Your most Gracious, and Noble Lordship,Sir Venator of the
Cask, have you seen any of these books. Chrys. is looking for the
information to add to her repetoire of "woman's stuff." (<Grin>).

Marcus Audens
(Commoner-about as common as you can get).

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Roman wedding costume
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:53:22 -0600 (CST)

On 03/13/99 20:14:56 you wrote:
>
>There is, down at one of the local dry goods store, a woman who does
>sewing for SCA. She isnt very good at it as I had to completely resew
>my tunic, which is not that complicated. Any way she has two or three
>books with plates about Roman men's and women's wear. I would think
>that kind of information would be at Venator's fingertips, since his
>Lordship has only to dispatch a lackey to the village seamstress for the
>titles of the books.

I just ordered COSTUMES OF THE GREEKS AND ROMANS by Thomas Hope, which is available through Dover Books. Dover doesn't have a
website and they don't take credit cards, so you have to actually write them and send a check! The address is Dover Publications, 31 E. 2nd st.,
Mineola, NY 11501-3582. The book is catalog # 20021-3, $9.95 plus $5.00 postage. Order by title, author, book number. NY residents add sales tax.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Roman Clothing
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:09:52 -0500 (EST)

Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like something I should get.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Roman wedding costume
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:43:17 -0600

Ave Comespiritu,

Sorry to dissappoint you, but my costuming information is mostly late 14th
century, 10th century and 2nd century male garb. I could outfit Crystallina if
she wanted to get married in drag >(({;-{) Though, I shall go through my
sources and see what information I can develop. (SCA info: the "Period" is
generally described as from the 5th through 16th centuries, western European -or
those cultures which came into contact with western Europe in the delimited time
frame-) (At one time the SCA accepted any persona, if it could be documented as
exisiting in pre-17th century anywhere.)

Also, I am a "Lord" in the SCA, but please do not call me 'Sir' in that respect.
'Sir' is a title one earns as one is awarded a Knighthood in the SCA. I am
esquired to a knight, but am far from knighthood myself.

Bona Fortuna -- Venator

James Mathews wrote:

> There is, down at one of the local dry goods store, a woman who does
> sewing for SCA. She isnt very good at it as I had to completely resew
> my tunic, which is not that complicated. Any way she has two or three
> books with plates about Roman men's and women's wear. I would think
> that kind of information would be at Venator's fingertips, since his
> Lordship has only to dispatch a lackey to the village seamstress for the
> titles of the books.
>
> What about it, Your most Gracious, and Noble Lordship,Sir Venator of the
> Cask, have you seen any of these books. Chrys. is looking for the
> information to add to her repetoire of "woman's stuff." (<Grin>).
>
> Marcus Audens
> (Commoner-about as common as you can get).
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Roman wedding costume
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:48:17 EST
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=000154235007078134036098066248147208071048" >Oplonti--------...</--------;
> Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=000154235007078134036098066248147208071048" >Oplonti--------...</--------;
>
> Salvete,
> A little while back there was a question about the kind of clothing a Roman
> bride would wear on her wedding day. I found this description, which I hope
> is of some use: The bride would wear a special white tunic, ankle length and
> short sleeved, the tunica recta (which was supposed to be woven in one piece);
> a woolen belt or girdle tied in a Hercules knot;saffron yellow sandals; and a
> flame colored gauzy veil, the flammeum. The flammeum would cover the bride's
> head and eyes and be long enough to reach her ankles. Her hair would be tied
> in six locks with woolen ribbons, and she would wear a wreath either of
> verbena and sweet marjoram or myrtle and orange blossom. Very simple and
> elegant.
> This is from "Costume of Ancient Rome" by David J. Symons, which also has a
> color illustration of the bride's costume.
> Valete,
> Quintus Poppaeus Sabinus
>
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