Subject:	NovaRoma Growing Up!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:31:00 -0500 (EST)

Salve, L. Sergius Aust.;

I greet you most respectfully, in order to answer your questions to the
best of my ability, and perhaps to provide you with some options. Of
course there is no Senate Consultum Ultimatum and you are as aware of
that as I am. The sarcasm in that phrase really does not do you full
justice, as you have always demonsrated yourself, in my estimation, to
be a sensitive and concerned Nova Roman, who cares about this
micro-nation. As we all know sarcasm serves little purpose as it simply
makes both parties upset and since we are a faceless group to each
other, the basis of one-upsmanship is lost on a listener half-way around
the world.

In regards to the Magistrates and their activities, the following are
probably as much as anyone knows save the individual magistrates
themselves. Lets start with someone that I know fairly well, the Junior
Quaestor:

--Is working to complete the Miltary Standing Orders of the Sodalitas
Militarium for which he is priveledged to be responsible;

--Is working on putting into effect a recruiting program for Regio
Connecticus under the guidance of Censor and Proconsul Julianus;

--Struggling with a Straw-Man Budget #3 for NR, that he is really not
qualified to do, (Math in any form gives him a headache) but it is a
magistrate assignment and it will be finished (about 50% done);

--Sharing articles of interest to both himself and NR Citizens to assist
in maintaining the Onelist as a historical list for NR data;

--Working on a proposal for an NR Tax with a committee of two other NR
citizens;

--Providing such services to the Senior Consul as the Consul requires of
him as the appointed Assistant, ranging from requesting information all
over NR to gathering data and advising him on various matters that are
sent to him for decision. Don't get the idea, however, that he is not a
Consul with his own mind!!!!

--Then this Quaestor has a selfish streak in him, in that he has taken
some time to consider next year's election campaign and whether or not
he shall run for office because he feels that based on questions and
requests from his constituants, he has not done a very creditable job to
date;

-- And then there is his outside interests which include: +Four
Re-enactment Groups; +Establishing a fift + Home and Land, +Wife and
Son; +BSA-Field Commissioner for six Disricts within his council, +Local
Zoning Board of Appeals Chairman, +About 5 other major items to which he
owes his allegiance, and about which I am sure that you have no interest
in at all. (Have a Life Items)

--Quaestor Venator:--

--Is putting togther a real first class job of managing his Sodalitas,
and Hosting a special talk list about that Sodalitas. He already has
completed an excellent set of By-Laws in his spare time for this
Sodalitas, which he has loaned to others as a guide;

--Is a member of the new Finance Committee brought into being just this
month, whose first job is to provide a Budget considering all aspects of
possible income currently on the board. Quaestor Audens is also the
junior member of this board;

--Serves as an assistant to the Junior Consul, with similar duties for
that position as for the Senior Consul's Quaestor;

--Assists with promoton of the Eagle Magazine;

--Involved with the other aspects of his life outside NR:
(see Junior Quaestor for specifics)

Senior Quaestor Patricia Cassia;

--Maintains Onelist as the List Moderator;

--Maintains the Nova Roma Webpage as WebMistress, adding new material
often as she finds it and determines it is worthy to be added to the
page. I am sorry to say that she doesn't get much help in this area,
and could probably use more ideas

--Member of the Financial Committee;

--Working with Proconsul Julianus in organizing face to face meetings of
NR citizens, and assisting the Proconsul with provincial duties as well
as attending to her responsibilities in Romn Religio and sharing such
with all who are interested;

--See "Have a Life Items" above.

The above are the people that I know best, and you are probably sick to
death of this, but I also am aware that Senator Flavia Claudia is the
Chairman (I think) of a Committee to work up some legal proposals and
law proposals to submit to the Senate. Two or thee elected / appointed
magistrates are working on that. The Senior Consul is working on
getting the information together for Tribes and Centuries. The raw data
came to him a bit late because of the hard-working lady who upgraded the
applications listings for joining NR, had several complications along
the way, but that information is now filed properly. Our Aedile has
just announced the first Nova Roma Games, and Tribunes of the People
have been closely monitoring the actions of the Senate and the
Magistrates. All of the elected magistarates are, to what degree that
they are able, doing research on their responsibilities while dealing
with their tasks. In speakig of available Magistrates we are several
short simply because no-one stod for those offices in December, and
someone must pick up those duties. The Censores Office of NR was down
for awhile, when Censor Julianus was sick and his computer was out, but
that is taken care of and that traffic is flowing again. By the way
Censor Cassius and P.Cassia moved into a new house during this period,
and Censor Cassius has a new job, plus a family business to deal with
and both have had computer problems which took them off line. In spite
of all that those duties have now been picked up and have moved on.

In California the ProPraetor is making great strides in bringing Nova
Roma to a Municipal History Show (San Fran) using gaming, face-to-face
communication, Legion Re-Enactors et all, and using the opportunity to
plaster the area with excellent NR flyers made up and printed off by
Proconsul Julianus.

In Lustitania we have been introduced to a quality group of Senior
Professors and our representative there has been asked to take part in
their deliberations. One of the members of that board has been
appointed Legatus by the Lustitania ProPraefect. Our population is
increasing every day, and donations have more than tripled the treasury,
making NR financially solvent for the first time. We have a gentleman
who is translating the Constitution into Latin and an Editor who has put
out a class NR Magazine and newsletter, and another gentleman working on
a proposal to establish a University of Roman Historical Studies and
there are two additional unofficial lists discussng NR religion and fun
with NR peple who belong while the main list is reserved for business
and discussion of topical items. These lists are moderated by NR
citizens and prove to be an excellent and unofficial way to communicate
about specific topics without crowding the mainlist unduly..

In one province (Southeastern) several outstanding improvements in
communication have been made and in two others Nova Roma citizens are
working toward bringing more people into Nova Roma and getting the Nova
Roma name and standing before the people of the world without the
appointment by the Senate as Praetors, but rather working at grass roots
level for the benefit of NR.

All this we have for the most part accomplished in the last three
months. We have just completed the 11th month of NR's existance, and we
have under our own elected officers accomplished so much. In my
experience in any volunteer organzation, I have never seen a more
dynamic group.

However, in that last sentence lies one of the problems of NR. The
dynamic stance of most of the NR citizens is also an independent one
with their own ideas, values, customs, interests and mores. The
difficulty in getting a diverse group like this to come to concurrance
is a tough one, at best, since we are all secure in our home
surroundings. It is really difficult to form a commttee with other
faceless people, whom you do not know well. It is hard to do it when
you know each other, but infinately harder when you do not. What is the
solution? Nobody really knows, but the Senior Magistrates and the
Senate are working on that as well. These Senior Magistrates have
suggested that you form yourselves into committees and hammer out
proposals for the Senate. For the most part this has not happened. We
have a great group of debaters, however, and we usually end up about
even on each side of whatever topic we debate. Not much concurrance
there.

I am sorry to say that I will have forgotten some hard-working person in
NR, simply because I have no knowledge of their task. To that unnamed
person (s) I tender my deepest apologies as I realize that your work is
as important as any other that I have mentioned. If you care to tell me
where I have screwed up, I would be glad to add your name to the list.

In regard to the topic of present concern on the Onelist, I have been
criticized for not being "up" on the war. I would correct that
assumption by saying I am simply not interested in the war. I spent 20
years dealing with all those blustering idiots killing people and making
life in their countries miserable for everyone in the 50's-60's and
70's and 30 years later no one even remembers their names. The same
will happen in Yugoslavia and I have a trust in my government and my
country that they will do the best that they can. As I like to quote
from President Johnson,"We did not choose to be the Guardians at the
gate." Some of you will think me a sentimental fool for my devotion to
my country, and that may well be your opinion. and I promise I will not
mind until you tell me face to face. They will make errors but they
will prevail. Long before I am needed or even desired to provide input
to my government on this war, it will be settled either an uneasy peace,
or the world will be drawn into a wider war. In either case I cannot
imagine what my out-of-date technical, and archaic diciplinary
principles, could do for the U.S. I believe that I have earned the
right to be interested in Roman History, and that is why I came here. I
am sure you can say if you don't like it turn it off. Well, I have a
right to enjoy a lifeline to my history interests as well as anyone, and
I simply ask for a little consideration. I suggested earlier a Current
Events List, but as easy as it is to arrange no-one even mentioned it in
passing.

Hmmmmmmmm!!! What has NR accomplished; well a heck of a lot, I
believe!! What are the magistrates doing; probably more than they
should be expected to do!! Why have we not done more; Gee I guess
because all of us have a life other than NR which needs a little
tending; as far as I can see!! What more could we do; well I think we
have already done it in my estimation. See below:

--Making garum from ancient recipes;--Putting on Roman Dinners;--Working
on developing ancient wines and fine foods; --Developing coin, stamp,
jewalry, statuary, maps and book sales; --Developing a Military
Bibliography and Military Drawings of Greek and Roman shipping;
--Sharing information on the Roman Civilization; --Participating in
Roman Re-enactments in the East and in the Western parts of Nova
Roma; --Building period dress and uniforms of the Republic and
Empire,--Contributing information to the onelist and Eagle for a fuller
understanding of Roman Life and Roman Goals, --Developing the basis for
an Effective and Proper Roman Religio by establishing a Pontiff's
College,and appointing a Pontifex Maximus (I am probablythe last person
to mention Roman Religio and I sincerely ask the pardon of the Gods of
Rome that I feel in my own pride to be the person to answer these
questions.).

The answer to the last question that you ask: What, if anything, can I
do to help. My answer to that is:

Choose your poison and jump right in.

I cannot imagine anyone at this point not willing to have some help,
There is, however, one area in which we do not need help; Side-Walk
Superintendents; they are definately not in short supply!!!

In closing this over-long message I wish you the very best and I hope
that you will take my above comments the way they were meant, sincerely
and with the idea of helping. I hope that the above information will
allow you to feel better about the NR accomplishments in these last few
months.

To all those named in this message thank you for your efforts from the
Elected / Appointed Magistrates. We much appreciate all of your work,
your effort and your ideas, and to those I missed, again my apologies,
and I really would like to know about you and your tasks..

Vale, L.Sergius Aust.

With Respect and Admiration for Your Dedication to Nova Roma

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: NovaRoma Growing Up!
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:48:13 EST

My dear Marcus Minucius, who could not appreciate your involvement in
Nova Roma? I feel badly at having moved you to compose such a long,
detailed, and earnest defense of your work and that of your fellow
magistrates. But at the same time, what a wonderful report you have made
for everyone out here who may have been wondering if anything is being
done!

I am sorry if my use of sarcasm offended your sensitivities. I think
there are times when sarcasm, like a sword, can be useful. When faced
with a lot of baloney, one needs something to slice through it quickly.
However, my sword is now back on the wall.

I acknowledged that many people are working hard for Nova Roma, and you
have responded by detailing much of their work. There is no sarcasm in
stating that all of that work is wonderful, and those involved with it
deserve honor and praise.

At the same time, we are now into our second year as a Roman Republic and
the basic organs of the republican government are still not in place and
not functioning. We had our elections, but we had them outside the
consitution by a decree of a consul. We have a Senate that is working on
laws, yet we don't have the Comitia necessary to approve any laws. It is
as if we were building an automobile and have decided to drive off down
the highway before taking the trouble to get all of the wheels and the
steering installed.

You may say, we've made a good start and we can complete the rest as we
go along. I say, how hard can it be to take a list of gens and divide
them among the tribes, and among the centuries? Does it take an hour? A
day? Is there some more research needed to make it possible?

If I recall correctly, Germanicus volunteered to do this several months
ago -- why has no-one taken him up on it if they are unable to get it
done themselves?

Nova Roma may be viewed as a form of experimental Political Science, an
exploration of how people come together and form a republican government.
So far, it's pretty discouraging, although it certainly parallels the
operation of government in the world at large. (There is a wonderful
doctoral dissertation here -- I hope someone is pursuing it!)

I am truly dismayed by your statement that you trust your government. I
should think it would be clear to anyone with experience in the world
that NO government of ANY kind should ever be trusted. There is no
government in this world that does not walk roughshod over human
interests and rights whenever it is left unguarded. A government is like
a pet tiger -- it may be inspiring, beautiful, powerful, and useful when
it serves your ends, such as to keep the wolves from your door. But turn
your back on it and it WILL kill and eat you someday. To live with a
government, you must keep an eye on it constantly and be prepared to
correct it or destroy it if it turns on you (ref. "...that whenever any
form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of
the people to alter or to abolish it..." -- I'm quoting from memory here,
so the words may not be quite right). People may be trusted. Governments
cannot be trusted, except to your deadly peril.

You invite us to jump in and serve -- how? I have no authority to start
creating organs of government or to assign tribes and centuries. If asked
to perform some other task or to take part in some committee, I will do
so to the best of my abilities, but I cannot take it upon myself to do
public work on my own. I have offered before.

I appreciate your position on the forbidden topic. I have some similar
feelings about it. The more important point is that this is not a
discussion group on ancient history. This is the ONLY public Forum of a
living nation, and we don't need anyone forbidding citizens from speaking
their minds as long as it is done in a reasonable and orderly fashion.
This list was never clogged up by people talking about the war. There
were few messages posted _about_ the war. The list was in danger of
becoming clogged up by all the messages posted by people who wanted to
prevent others from talking about the war. In my opinion, the handling of
this issue reflects badly on Nova Roma. It suggests that there are more
(or louder) people here who want just an ancient history list than there
are those who want a living nation. As I have said many times before,
what Nova Roma will turn out to be remains to be seen. So far, it is far
from being what our founders said they were founding.

******* humor alert! ********
Minucius, if I make it a practice to periodically post sarcastic
questions, will you periodically give us updates like this on all that's
being done by the mnagistrates?
******* all clear - humor over *******

With the greatest appreciation of your involvement and your work,

L. Sergius Aust.

cum ballistae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti ballistas habebunt.

(When ballistas are outlawed, only outlaws will have ballistas.)

Subject:	The Machinery of Government
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:20:52 -0800 (PST)

Salvete, Quirites.

I find myself in complete agreement with Australicus regarding the necessity
of all citizens coming together to ensure that the full implementation of
our Constitution is consummated. All the constitutional offices should be
filled; where candidates were lacking in last December's elections, the
Senate should appoint people to these vacancies. The tribes and centuries
should be defined, then the assemblies as well. Bills must be reported out
of committees for the consideration of the Senates and assemblies. Every
citizen should strongly consider actively participating in the completion of
the structure of our Republic, and put herself or himself at the disposal of
the Senate and the magistrates.

And so I ask them directly, what can I do for the Republic? Give me a task
and I will perform it. Although I am involved in a number of projects,
surely all of them can be put aside for a time while we devote ourselves to
the final assembly of the machinery of government.

For if certain facets of our Republic are technically illegal and
unconstitutional at this time, how illegal and unconstitutional might our
Republic further become if we citizens neglect it. It may be benign neglect
now, but it may have malignant consequences later.

May the Gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

Vale,

Marcus Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria

Subject:	The Machinery of Government II
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:23:21 -0800 (PST)

Salvete, Quirites.

Again, I find myself in agreement with Australicus regarding the urgent need
to get our act together right here, I say, right here in Nova Roma! And it
should not be left up to the well-meaning citizenry to decide, "Gee, I think
I'll work on this." Quirites, we not in the Government. We are not privy
to the wise deliberations of our Conscript Fathers. It is for them to
establish the priorities of the Republic, else why are they there? It is
for them to exercise leadership, else why are they there. Senators and
magistrates, you tell me what you want me to do and I will do it; you tell
Australicus what you want him to do and he will do it!

I must also agree with Australicus' views on trusting governments.

"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the
subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of
resistance. The history of liberty is the history of the limitations of
governmental power, not the increase of it. When we resist... concentration
of power, we are resisting the powers of death, because the concentration of
power is what always precedes the destruction of human liberties."

-- Woodrow Wilson, 9 May 1912

I leave it to you, Quirites, to judge for yourselves where power is being
concentrated, where human liberties are being destroyed. I will not make
reference or even allusion to events in the macro-world. I will not waste
your time.

But as for his reference to "the forbidden topic", alas, Australicus has
several times demonstrated his own earlier point that talking about NOT
talking about the war is a waste of time. Indeed it appears that he is now
intent on putting up his own tomaculum to cure!

Now lets' get down to business or get off the pot!

Vale,

Marcus Martianus Gangalius

-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria

Subject:	Relevant to Nova Roma (was "Mars")
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:41:04 -0500

Salvete Omnes!

>>And what could possibly be more relevant to Mars than the most direct and
>>traditional form of his worship -- making war.
>>
>There is a hymn called, "Onward Christian Soldiers", but this does certain
>not mean that the Prince of Peace is a maker of war!
>
>Unfortunately, this idea that the worship of Mars centered around the
>making of war has become a very common misconception since the
>suppression of Roman Polytheism beginning in the 4th c. B.C.E.
>A detailed discussion of the character of Mars and his cult can be
> found in the Temple of Mars.
>Naturally, I defer to the Flamen Martialis on this topic.
>Vale,Marcus Martianus Gangale

Lucius Equitius:
Yes, all are encouraged to visit the Templum Martialis (and it's associated sites).
Mars is much more than the god of war. He is guardian, defender, and
avenger. He is father, soldier and agriculturist. He is guardian of the fields and
forests as well as the city and state and those who reside therein. How else
would humans have had the time or resources to develop civilization without
first meeting the basic needs of survival? Yes, it is easy to single out the theme
of conflict but Mars is also a force for civilization.
In addition to what Marcus Martianus pointed out (I think he meant 4th
c. AD{ce}) there is also some confusing of Mars with the Greek Aries, who
was not looked upon fondly and was seen as a destructive force. Mars was
not seen in this way and was seen as virtuous and the most Roman of the Gods.

Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius

L. Sergius Aust. inquit:
Palladius stated a **recommendation.**
Cincinnatus concurred with Palladius' thinking.

Lucius Equitius: Although I do agree with Palladius' *recommendation*, what I was referring to was that there would be no 'official' Nova Roma announcement concerning the 'Balkan' situation.

AFTER I had already posted the message to which you respond, Patricia
Cassia (the only one of the three with any legal authority to act in this
matter) made a strong request for participants to restrict themselves to
topics she considers related to Nova Roma.


Lucius Equitius: Actually, The Consules do have 'authority' (this is what imperium is) to act in this and many other cases. Actually the authority that Quaestrix Patricia Cassia has is derived from Consular imperium as she is the quaestor of Decius Iunius.
Having said this, I say again that IF citizens wish to discuss the Balkans or any other matter they should remember that (in this Forum) they are Novaromani first and also the Roman virtues.

L. Sergius Aust. inquit:
Would also that our magistrates were exercising similar leadership in
arranging the establishment of the organs of government without which the
nation continues to be improperly governed. The comitiae which are
necessary for the passage of legislation and ordinances are still not
functioning. The tribes and centuries required for voting still don't
exist. Is there something I can do to facilitate this (I ask this at
large and not of you, Marcus Martianus).

Lucius Equitius: This is a problem that is recognized and is being worked on. I believe that no one
had any idea how difficult/time consuming this would be. The formation of the various Comitiae was left undone for too long and now has become a much larger job. Only now that the Cassii have found a home and gotten their computer problems fixed are 'things' beginning to be addressed. One thing that needs to be said about the Tribes is that in order for this republic to work all citizens will have to be involved. Each Tribe and century will have to choose it's own
spokesperson and decide how they will vote on any particular matter. This means that perhaps each tribe should form their own mode of communication, snail mail, phone, email group, boardroom etc..


Vale, L. Sergius inquit:
I think it a topic relevant to Nova Roma that Nova Roma is not working as
it is supposed to. I do not seek to belittle those who have been active
in getting done those things that have been done, and I am certain that
they have been dealing with many obstacles and limitations. What can be
done to help them get it going?
Vale, L. Sergius Aust.

Lucius Equitius: Yes, this is certianly a "topic relevant to Nova Roma", by all means discuss away! Give opinions, advice, ideas and even better give help and support.
or 'Non plaudite modo pecuniam iacite' :-)

L. Sergius Aust. inquit
I acknowledged that many people are working hard for Nova Roma, and you
have responded by detailing much of their work.

Lucius Equitius: Yes, I suppose it was time for some update.
Gratius tibi M Minucius ago.

L. Sergius Aust.inquit"
At the same time, we are now into our second year as a Roman Republic and
the basic organs of the republican government are still not in place and
not functioning. We had our elections, but we had them outside the
consitution by a decree of a consul.

Lucius Equitius; The elections were held by Senatus Consulta, NOT by
a "decree". So far nothing of this sort has been done by "decree".

L. Sergius Aust.inquit:
We have a Senate that is working on
laws, yet we don't have the Comitia necessary to approve any laws. It is
as if we were building an automobile and have decided to drive off down
the highway before taking the trouble to get all of the wheels and the
steering installed.

Lucius Equitius: Yes, quite so!


L. Sergius Aust.inquit:
You may say, we've made a good start and we can complete the rest as we
go along. I say, how hard can it be to take a list of gens and divide
them among the tribes, and among the centuries? Does it take an hour? A
day? Is there some more research needed to make it possible?

Lucius Equitius: What is needed is a 'complete' list of citizens. One problem
is the addition of new citizens on an almost daily basis, any ideas?

L. Sergius Aust.inquit:
If I recall correctly, Germanicus volunteered to do this several months
ago -- why has no-one taken him up on it if they are unable to get it
done themselves?

Lucius Equitius: The problem has been one of timely updating of citizen data
and the transfer of information. This is being done but will take time because
people have other priorities.


L. Sergius Aust.inquit:
You invite us to jump in and serve -- how? I have no authority to start
creating organs of government or to assign tribes and centuries. If asked
to perform some other task or to take part in some committee, I will do
so to the best of my abilities, but I cannot take it upon myself to do
public work on my own. I have offered before.

Lucius Equitius: Would you be so kind as to resend your offer/proposal to me? or the Senate?


******* humor alert! ********
Minucius, if I make it a practice to periodically post sarcastic
questions, will you periodically give us updates like this on all that's
being done by the magistrates?
******* all clear - humor over *******

Lucius Equitius: Well done! :-)

With the greatest appreciation of your involvement and your work,
L. Sergius Aust.


L Equitius: Ita!

Valete, Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	new topic?
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070181044180042031218223203043129208071" >eburhard@--------</a> (Douglas Swank)
Date:	Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:44:39 -0500

AVE OMNES!

Is the current empire as plagues with catamites as the ancient?

I hope so! I'm currently looking for a hetairos.

GRATIA:
Catamus

Subject:	A modest proposal (tribes and centuries)
From:	Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:55:10 -0500

In relation to the formation of tribes and centuries, L. Equitius
Cincinnatus wrote:

>What is needed is a 'complete' list of citizens. One problem
>is the addition of new citizens on an almost daily basis, any ideas?

I suggest that the solution to this is as follows.

1) Tribes should be formed on the basis of provinciae. It's not authentic
because we won't have the full number of tribes yet, but it's a necessary
adaptation to the conditions of life of NR. Then, when a new citizen joins,
just as they join (or form) a provincia, they join (or form) a tribe. The
tribes should each get as many votes as they have citizens. The number of
tribes will expand as NR expands geographically, but at this point we could
tinker with the construction of tribes by lex.

2) Centuries should be formed on the basis that the first 100 citizens form
the first century, the next 100 citizens the next century, and so on. This
will give us only two centuries so far (am I behind the times on the number
of citizens?) but will be easy to administer. Moreover, if we wanted
differential voting rights like Roman centuries, age-in-citizenship is a
lot more sensible way to do it for us than the roman method of wealth
enough to be a cavalryman/ heavy infantryman/ light infantryman/ human
shield. It's not that inauthentic, because the Com. Centuriata was
originally the roman people drawn up for war; and, as the Roundheads
conclusively showed the cavaliers, it's better to have 5 full-strength
regiments than 50 understrength ones ... As NR grows, we will get more
centuries ...

No amendments to the Constitution would be required, because the
Constitution nowhere defines the composition of either tribes or centuries.

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: NovaRoma Growing Up!
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:53:41 -0600 (CST)

On 04/03/99 09:48:13 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>My dear Marcus Minucius, who could not appreciate your involvement in
>Nova Roma? I feel badly at having moved you to compose such a long,
>detailed, and earnest defense of your work and that of your fellow
>magistrates. But at the same time, what a wonderful report you have made
>for everyone out here who may have been wondering if anything is being
>done!

For someone who's so accusatory, L. Sergius must not be reading the list very often, or very closely.
If he's wondering what's being done, he must never read the regular Senate reports done by myself, Audens or the Tribune. Or is there some
agenda that we're supposed to be addressing?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: The Machinery of Government II
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:58:53 -0600 (CST)

On 04/03/99 09:23:21 you wrote:
>
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Salvete, Quirites.
>
>Again, I find myself in agreement with Australicus regarding the urgent need
>to get our act together right here, I say, right here in Nova Roma! And it
>should not be left up to the well-meaning citizenry to decide, "Gee, I think
>I'll work on this." Quirites, we not in the Government.

Not so. If you have something you'd like to work on, or that you think should be done, write the Senate and tell us you'd like to start researching a
topic, or you'd like to chair a committee on a subject, or whatever. All we ask is that you don't go off on some tangent, but at least let us know what
you'd like to do and how you plan to go about doing it.

Audens, Venator, and others have started Sodalicae without having to wait around for someone in the Senate to do it for them.

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	The government, the constitution and the assemblies
From:	Masterofhistor--------t;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166066165056209112225046026229222078143100196169130152150" >masterofhistor--------..</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:36:58 -0800 (PST)

Salvete to the citizens of Nova Roma,

I am pleased to see some posts concerning the
assemblies and the mechanisms of the government here
at Nova Roma. The formation of the assemblies in Nova
Roma, I believe, will enable swifter communication and
enactment of proposals the Senate, the magistrates and
the citizen body as a whole may have.

I am pleased to announce that I have in my hand a
completed draft of the Comitia Populi Tributa - the
Assembly of the Tribes of Nova Roma. I shall submit
it to this list for public review, then I will carry
it into the Senate for their consideration and
hopefully enactment. We have gone for too long
without a popular assembly of the Tribes and the
Orders of Nova Roma, I ask you my friends to assist me
in providing the remedy to this state of affairs.


===
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Tribune of the People
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: The Machinery of Government II
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:12:47 -0800 (PST)

Salve, Flavia Claudia, honored Senatrix.

I meant no disrespect either to the Senate or to the magistrates. Rather,
my questions are, what are the priorites vis a vis putting the governmental
meat on the bones of the Constitution, who is coordinating what effort, who
needs more resources to get the job done? The respectable Quaestor Audens
has now answered some of those questions. Yes, I've taken on some projects
on my own initiative, but perhaps I'm working on things that ought to be put
aside in favor of more urgent needs of the Republic.

What is the plan, ma'am? Perhaps we should have a project status board on
the web site to which we all can refer. If you like the idea, I'll
implement it.

Vale,

Gangalius


At 03:58 PM 4/3/99 -0600, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wrote:
>On 04/03/99 09:23:21 you wrote:
>>
>>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>>
>>Salvete, Quirites.
>>
>>Again, I find myself in agreement with Australicus regarding the urgent need
>>to get our act together right here, I say, right here in Nova Roma! And it
>>should not be left up to the well-meaning citizenry to decide, "Gee, I think
>>I'll work on this." Quirites, we not in the Government.
>
>Not so. If you have something you'd like to work on, or that you think
should be done, write the Senate and tell us you'd like to start researching a
>topic, or you'd like to chair a committee on a subject, or whatever. All we
ask is that you don't go off on some tangent, but at least let us know what
>you'd like to do and how you plan to go about doing it.
>
>Audens, Venator, and others have started Sodalicae without having to wait
around for someone in the Senate to do it for them.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
>
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria

Subject:	Re: The government, the constitution and the assemblies
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Date:	Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:15:20 -0800 (PST)

Right on, brother! How can I help you?

Gangalius

At 03:36 PM 4/3/99 -0800, Masterofhistory wrote:
>From: Masterofhistor--------t;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166066165056209112225046026229222078143100196169130152150" >masterofhistor--------..</a>
>
>Salvete to the citizens of Nova Roma,
>
>I am pleased to see some posts concerning the
>assemblies and the mechanisms of the government here
>at Nova Roma. The formation of the assemblies in Nova
>Roma, I believe, will enable swifter communication and
>enactment of proposals the Senate, the magistrates and
>the citizen body as a whole may have.
>
>I am pleased to announce that I have in my hand a
>completed draft of the Comitia Populi Tributa - the
>Assembly of the Tribes of Nova Roma. I shall submit
>it to this list for public review, then I will carry
>it into the Senate for their consideration and
>hopefully enactment. We have gone for too long
>without a popular assembly of the Tribes and the
>Orders of Nova Roma, I ask you my friends to assist me
>in providing the remedy to this state of affairs.
>
>
>===
>Respectfully,
>Avidius Tullius Callidus
>Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
>Tribune of the People
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ta Da! Come see our new web site!
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Onelist: A free email community service
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria