Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:41:07 -0700

I prefer Polytheist, just my 2 cents....Its my way of differenciating my
Hellenism from what most people assume when the term Pagan is used. I also
like the way it sounds better :-).

Pythia


Subject:	Re: Answering Questions
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:27:01 EDT

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=060100214139010197242218175036129208" >PTh0815@--------</--------;
>
>Salve L. Sergius Aust.
>
>I may not agree with all that Marcus Minucius said. But I am also no X-phile
>( living with the motto: trust no one).You should give those people who you
>gave imperium, by whatever kind of election, the posibillity and time to get
>things straight. The system of the ancient republic developed through
>centuries with a lot of troubles and outrages, so why not give our
>magistrates at least a bit time?
>If we are not willing or able to stand for election, we should be grateful
>to
>those who take that tremendous task and give them at least a chance, please.
I think the point is that the matter seemed to be taking more time than
it should have. However that may be a moot point now, as there was a
rumor here recently that the job is nearing completion.

>I don't want to offend your rightful pride in your ancestors and I respect
>your pietas, but perhaps you should think twice about Lucius Sergius
>Catilina.
>I am absolutely no Ciceronian, but being a Caecilius Metellus I stand in the
>tradition of a loyal gens to the Senatus Populusque Romanus and L. Serg.
>Cat.
>is not such an easy person to come to terms with regarding his loyalty to
>SPQR. Please reconsider this.
History suggests that there were many loyal to the Senate and their
class, and there were some loyal to the masses of the people and their
interests, but there were (as now) bloody few who evinced much loyalty to
both. Catalina _may have been_ one who championed the cause of the people
over the interests of the narrow little group that ran the state. It is
hard to be certain of what was Catalina's intent, since pretty much all
we know of him comes from his enemies, especially that disreputable
little wannabe, M. Tullius Cicero.

I prefer to give Catalina the benefit of the doubt. After all, since when
have our heros (or our villains) ever been exactly as we like to believe
them to be?

I welcome your input on the question, and trust that my preference to
leave the case of Catalina undecided does not affront you.

>
>Vale
>
>L. Caec: Metellus Scaevola

Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: list powers
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:26:58 EDT

Patricia Cassia wrote (in part):

>I have no wish or desire to silence anyone. However, my responsibility is
>to keep this forum available to those who have nowhere else to discuss
>their interest in ancient Rome, and posts on this subject must take
>priority. This list will attract high-quality participants - people with
>a great deal of knowledge and interest in our topic - if it stays
>focused. Such people tend to have busy lives, and will drift back to
>reading Cicero if subjected to floods of irrelevancy.

This is a genuine source of confusion -- I thought the priority topic of
discussion here was supposed to be Nova Roma and not "ancient Rome" --
except as ancient Rome bears on Nova Roma. Do we need another list for
the business of Nova Roma (or another list for ancient history buffs)?

As you have cited, I have no argument with you exercising your power to
moderate the list. However, I am alarmed at the notion that this list is
primarily devoted to ancient Rome. Where, then, is the list devoted to
Nova Roma??? Palladius?

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:27:03 EDT

>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
Salve Marcus Martianus

My feelings on this question are similar to yours. However, as you will
have gathered by now, the last time it came up there appeared to be more
(or maybe just louder?) Nova Romans who held the opposite viewpoint.

Perhaps there will be some evolution of terms over time. It hasn't
appeared to be worth splintering over.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>Salvete, omnes.
>
>The fact that our public documents refer to "Roman Paganism" bothers me a
>little. The term "pagan" is rather pejorative, synonymous with "heathen".
>The term "Polytheism", however, doesn't carry the same baggage, and I think
>in a linguistic sense, it would lend more dignitas to what we are about here
>in Nova Roma. Hindus, for instance, are polytheists, but I've never heard
>them referred to as pagans or heathens.
>
>How do others feel about this? Should our public documents be revised in
>favor of "Roman Polytheism?
>
>Vale.
>
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:47:45 EDT

A truly faithful follower of Roman relegious ways would not care what others
called him. The Greek language has a word for this, but it evades me at the
moment. Any way, does it matter what others call us? Do we not know that we
hold a higher favor with heaven then they do? Personally I believe the
'pagan' relgions bring the believers much closer to the Gods than any
monotheistic relegion ever could. Do not our people have the chance to set
themselves amongst the Gods by distinguishing ourselves through our own noble
deeds? The 'pagan' relegions encourage its believers to become close to their
gods, to emulate them, to BE them. If your heart truly believes in our
relegion more than your mind does, it really shouldn't matter.

Please do not let my views disturb anyone, & most certainly do not assume
that I question anyones faith. I would have to knoww you all quite well to
make that assumption and I don't. In fact the only one I even think I know
somewhat is M.Fulvius Flacchus, & this is only through reading some of his
poems, (which, by the way, are outstanding & I reccomend them to all who are
interested in the literary advancement of Nova Roma.) Speaking of which is
there currently an interest group in that field of study? If so I'd love to
hear of it, if not I'd love to form one. Let me know.

ALL HAIL ROME!!!

with due respect and love to all,
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar


Subject:	Re: Catilina
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:13:39 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/07/99 00:27:01 you wrote:
>
>History suggests that there were many loyal to the Senate and their
>class, and there were some loyal to the masses of the people and their
>interests, but there were (as now) bloody few who evinced much loyalty to
>both. Catalina _may have been_ one who championed the cause of the people
>over the interests of the narrow little group that ran the state. It is
>hard to be certain of what was Catalina's intent, since pretty much all
>we know of him comes from his enemies, especially that disreputable
>little wannabe, M. Tullius Cicero.
>
>I prefer to give Catalina the benefit of the doubt. After all, since when
>have our heros (or our villains) ever been exactly as we like to believe
>them to be?

Now here's an interesting subject: Catalina. And more relevant to NR than we might wish it to be, at the moment.

But I agree that Catalina's real purpose, his loyalties, and his place in history are extremely muddied.
The old chestnut about "history being written by the winners." Cicero is hardly an impartial source.

It would be wonderful to have opposing views from his contemporaries. Apparently Steven Saylor thinks so, too. His "Catalina's Riddle," while
it's fiction and speculative, seems more willing to give Catalina a bit more impartial a view.

Unfortunately, we'll never know. Just like we'll never know if history's great villains, like Gilles de Rais, were simply on the wrong side and the
victim of slander. Or if he was guilty of great crimes, but painted as guiltier of greater ones.

(At least we know a little more about de Rais, but only what his enemies tell us. He's off topic, however. Anyone who wants to dicuss him and
the aftermath of his associateion with Jeanne d'Arc, e-mail me!)

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Celebrate History
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:25:31 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/05/99 17:38:12 you wrote:
>
>From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
>Salvete, Quirites!
>
>I know that the number of NovaRomans that are making it to the Celebrate History
>convention in South San Francisco, California over this coming weekend (9-11
>Aprilis) is finite [almost to the point of in-finite]. Just the same, I wanted
>to draw your attention to their website again. The Nova Roma website is linked
>on the Celebrate History list of Participating Organizations.
>
Great!
My Dad will be there with the Confederate Air Force, and I guess I'll go meet him!
SF's always fun.

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: A consul's views on list powers
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:32:22 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Patricia Cassia wrote (in part):
>
> >I have no wish or desire to silence anyone. However, my responsibility is
> >to keep this forum available to those who have nowhere else to discuss
> >their interest in ancient Rome, and posts on this subject must take
> >priority. This list will attract high-quality participants - people with
> >a great deal of knowledge and interest in our topic - if it stays
> >focused. Such people tend to have busy lives, and will drift back to
> >reading Cicero if subjected to floods of irrelevancy.
>
> This is a genuine source of confusion -- I thought the priority topic of
> discussion here was supposed to be Nova Roma and not "ancient Rome" --
> except as ancient Rome bears on Nova Roma. Do we need another list for
> the business of Nova Roma (or another list for ancient history buffs)?
>
> As you have cited, I have no argument with you exercising your power to
> moderate the list. However, I am alarmed at the notion that this list is
> primarily devoted to ancient Rome. Where, then, is the list devoted to
> Nova Roma??? Palladius?

Salvete,

You are right as to the purpose of the list: it is Nova Roma and
not merely ancient Rome. There are several aspects to that mission. The
foremost is the dissemination of information from the consuls and the
Senate to as many people as possible. Since the most active Nova Romans
subscribe to the list, it is the best place to keep people informed. This
and the public message board are the only official organs of Nova Roma.
Both are lightly moderated to keep them focused on Nova Roma and ancient
Rome and whatever is related to them. There have been few, if any cases
that a discussion even remotely on topic has been interfered with by the
moderator except in the case of trying to limit tan excessive number of
posts.

In the Taverna, or chat room, like most chat rooms, any topic and all
topics are discussed freely.

The reason I *recommended* that the current conflict in Europe not be
discussed was the divisiveness of the topic. Yes, we are, or aspire to be a
"nation." However, each of us is first and foremost a member of a
macronation to which our first loyalty lie. I would hate to
see those loyalties interfere with our bonds to Nova Roma. Yes, I know
that an individual's views may not correspond to the stance his or her
nation is taking. That is not the point. Why bring the conflict here as
well? Let us, when here, stay focused on Nova Roma and keep the strife
that has nothing to do directly with Nova Roma outside the pomerium. We
cause enough of our own strife--we don't need more! :)

I quote below, fro further clarity, the description of the purpose of
the Nova Roma list directly from the website:

"The purpose of the Nova Roma mailing list is to discuss issues dealing
with classical Roman studies, Roman
reenactments, the Religio Romana (and associated cults that were
followed during the pagan Roman era),
political and policy issues within Nova Roma itself, and other
items of interests to the members of Nova Roma.
Membership on the mailing list does not require Nova Roman
Citizenship, but you do have to subscribe in order
to post to it."

In Service to Rome,

Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: Days of the Week
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:24:20 PDT

Salvete!

My thanks to G. Merullus for asking such an interesting question, and to M. Gangalius for his enlightening answer. I would also offer, in answer to the following:

>Almost as odd is the norse god naming convention for naming days in English
>("Thursday" = "Thor's day"). Did the Romance languages mimic the Germanic
>ones? If so, why, and, how does Thor correspond to Iuppiter?

- that in Old British, the divinity most closely resembling Iuppiter is Tanaris ('Tanaru' remains the modern Welsh for 'thunder to this day!).
There was no real, absolute distinction between Gauls and Germans
2,000 years ago, and they seem to have been closely related culturally and linguistically to each other and to the Brittones as well (votive inscriptions and religious sculptures of auxiliaries of both designations serving as auxiliaries in Britannia would seen to bear this out). So, the similarity of Tanaris(British-Gaulish)-Thunor (Anglo-Saxon)-Thor (Norse) *could* be more than a coincidence
of Indo-European nomenclature.

Only a conjecture, but thought you might like it.

Valete in pace deorum,

Nicolaus Moravius Vado.


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 03:27:18 -0400

I know I said this already in the previous discussion of this topic . It's
not a big deal, but "Pagani" is (one of) the things worshippers of the
ancient gods called themselves in the later roman period to distinguish
themselves from the Nazarenes. The fact that the Nazarenes now use it is a
term of abuse is neither here nor there. "Polytheist" is nice and
scientific, but in Merullus' latin translation of the Constitution it would
still have to be translated as "paganus" ...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 07 Apr 1999 03:11:40 PDT

Salvete!

>Subject: Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism

- Scripsit G. Tarquinius Caesar:

>A truly faithful follower of Roman religious ways would not care what >others called him.

- Absolutely right! Many people in the Pagan Federation, for example, call me an 'urban pagan' (what an oxymoron!) (mainly because my observances are based in my home - where they should be, according to the Religio Romana - and not in the woods (what IS it with this general idea pagans have that you have to go out to the woods to be religious?!) but I don't lose any sleep over it.

>The Greek language has a word for this, but it evades me at the
>moment.

- It's 'Eusebeia', I think (nearest Latin equivalent would be 'Pietas' ?)

- In the Pagan Federation in Britannia, the debate about what to call ourselves comes up time and again. I'm not really happy with the term 'pagan' (being an 'urbanus' rather than a 'paganus' anyway) but at least most folk understand it as meaning a follower of pre-Christian religion.

However, what suffices as an 'umbrella' term to cover Druids, Shamanists, Wiccans and all, I find too general in its received, modern interpretation. It doesn't adequately describe for me the Religio Romana, even tho' the term is of Roman origin. Personally I always have difficulty expressing my religion to pagans of other persuasions, when they ask: 'and what path do you follow?' I can't find a noun for it. I can't say, "I'm a ----------'. The way other pagans of other persuasions seem to be able to. Not that that bothers me, either.
People who don't have an attention span long enough to enable you to describe your faith and practice in several words aren't worth talking to.

Nor do I think we'd ever have any success finding a tidy one-word handle to describe Religio Romana. In the good old days it was what everyone was supposed to embody anyway. Like the Heathens with their partially successful efforts to reclaim the word 'heathen' instead of the misleading and inaccurate 'Asatru', 'Odinist' or 'Northern Tradition' (yes!), we could try arrogating 'pagan' as exclusively ours. I think we'd be about as successful as the Imperial Byzantine government in exile is in getting recognition as being Roman... but that's another vexatious topic entirely..!

Valete in pace deorum,

N. Moravius Vado.


Subject:	Re: Catilina
From:	PTh0815@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:38:39 EDT

Salve omnes,

what I tried was to point out that we should not make the same mistake that
was made in history over and over again: We should be a bit more sensitive
and should always doubt the judgment about the so called heros/villains.
Flavia Claudia is absolutely right-everyone should be given the benefit of
the doubt.
We try to be a "different" Nation at last, so let us not show off with our
(taken on ) ancestors. Wouldn�t it be more useful if we made our own heros:
strong and brave magistrates and open-minded,good-willing citizens?


Subject:	Re: Polytheism
From:	PTh0815@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:38:52 EDT

Salve omnes,

I think it should be left to everybody�s own decission wether he/she wants to
be called a pagan or polytheist. Therefor I don�t see the need to change our
NR documents.
But always remember: Poor are the people who have but one God ;-)

Vale

L.Caec. Metellus Scaevola


Subject:	Oops
From:	PTh0815@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:40:35 EDT

Salve

I just forgot to sign my e-mail on Catilina
Sorry, mea culpa

Vale
L.Caec. Metellus Scaevola


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:15:20 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/07/99 07:38:39 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=060100214139010197242218175036129208" >PTh0815@--------</--------;
>
>Salve omnes,
>
>what I tried was to point out that we should not make the same mistake that
>was made in history over and over again: We should be a bit more sensitive
>and should always doubt the judgment about the so called heros/villains.
>Flavia Claudia is absolutely right-everyone should be given the benefit of
>the doubt.
>We try to be a "different" Nation at last, so let us not show off with our
>(taken on ) ancestors. Wouldn�t it be more useful if we made our own heros:
>strong and brave magistrates and open-minded,good-willing citizens?
>

As usual, you answer a question well, and also raise another interesting one.

About our "taken-on" ancestors. Sometimes I wonder if we've done the right thing by requiring people to take Roman names.
Certainly, it's good to honor people from the past, the people that shaped an important heritage. But it seems like taking names that are not our
own places us right up against that role-playing game edge. You can go overboard with this sort of thing: I heard one Nova Roman claiming to
be actually descended from one of the most illustrious names in Rome. Could have been true, I guess, but kind of an odd way to impress a
newcomer into joining your gens! (Guess the Nova Roman was keeping score!)

As much as I admire Flavius Claudius Julianus and wish to honor him, I'm in no way related to him.

One of the things about this name business is that people sometimes feel they can act contrary to the way they'd act if they were using their real
names. This happens on the Internet anyway, where everyone is young, good-looking, rich and single.

Oh well. It's real early and I've been up working all night. Sleep-deprived musings...

-- Flavia Claudia
(Cheri Scotch)


Subject:	V. Hanson
From:	PTh0815@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:32:21 EDT

Salve omnes,

I just came across the author V. Hanson while reading John Keegan�s "A
history of warfare". Living in Germany and with no translation available, I
have to order my english literautre via internet. That takes always a lot of
time and it isn�t cheap either. So if anybody could give me information about
his books, especially about
"the Western Way of Warfare", "Hoplites", " the agricultural idea"( that�s a
subtitle) and "family farms and ...". I am not sure about the last two
titles, I would be very grateful. Thanks.

Vale
L.Caec.Metellus Scaevola


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:36:09 EDT

Salvete,

I am not the smartest among you (actually I am probably among the least
educated), but when people ask me 'what' I am (being I am more than one thing
that no one can tell just by looking at me) I tell them I am 'Religio Romana'
which (to me anyway) translates (loosely anyway) into 'Of the Roman Religion'.

When asked my religion before Lapis was born, I put down 'Religio Romana' (at
the suggestion of more than one person when I put the question to the group
through Sulla). I feel the same about the term 'Pagan' as I do about the 'N'
word. I have been called both in my life and it is not the WORD that bothers
me as much as the way the word is SPOKEN (inflection? is that the word I'm
looking for?).

If we (being the 'Pagans' in NR) opt to call ourselves something else, just
let me know <G>.

Crys (happy lemming<G>)


Subject:	Proposal & Virus
From:	pallasathene@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:10:48 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete, omnes!

This is directed to those of you who received a Proposal (Comitia Populi) from Callidus. Attached was a Virus called "CAP". In case your system has been infected, it can be repaired. Here is some info on the virus for you:

WM.Cap.A
VirusName: WM.Cap.A
Aliases: MW:CAP family, WordMacro/Cap.A:[var2], WM.Cap, WM/Cap, Winword.CAP, WM/CAP.A, WM.CAP.A, CAP, WM6.CAP, Macro.Word.Cap
Infection Length: N/A
Likelihood: common
Target Platform: Application macros

Description:
This virus infects document files. This virus has been found "in the wild." This means that one or more end-users have encountered it. The WM.Cap.A virus propagates identical copies of itself. It does not hide itself using "stealthing" techniques. In most cases, files infected with the WM.Cap.A virus can be fully repaired.

Additional Comments:
This macro virus removes Macro & Customize item from Tools menu. It deletes all existing macros before infection. Saving into RTF file actually creates an infected Word Document w/ RTF extension.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT OPEN ANY OTHER MSWORD DOCUMENTS! FIND THE INFECTED FILES THAT HAVE THE EXTENTION OF .RTF AND DELETE THOSE FILES. IF YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE, LET ME KNOW, COMPUTER VIRII ARE MY HOBBY!

Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Propraetor SE USA Provincia

----------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email from AltaVista at <a href="http://altavista.iname.com" target="_top" >http://altavista.iname.com</a>


Subject:	I don't feel Poor!!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:39:12 -0400 (EDT)

I am as nterested in the history of the Gods of Rome as is anyone. I
have rendered them the respect due them from a magistrate, and feel
comfortable in studying among them. However, in my monotheistic
beliefs, my god wields the power of the sword as well as the power of
love and blessing. I do not feel that I am diminished in any way, and
your comments could be conceived as critical. I will not take them in
that way, however, as in my estimation it would be displeasing to the
Roman Gods who give me sanctuary in this place and have permitted my
studies.

Rather, I submit that he / she is rich beyond words, who has the
blessing of their gods and who are comfortable and safe within those
beliefs.

I ask the pardon of the Roman Gods for furthering this topic, but I am
as prideful of my religion as any of the other Nova Romans and I
certainly do not feel poor or slighted because of my beliefs.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:56:58 EDT

In a message dated 4/6/99 4:37:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:

<< How do others feel about this? Should our public documents be revised in
favor of "Roman Polytheism? >>

I disagree. The term "Pagan" was used to describe the polytheistic religion
of the classical world even by its own followers. Why are we so hell bent on
making it a dirty word? Who are we trying to impress?

I would be ok with using the word Polytheism to further describe Roman
Paganism: "the polytheistic religion of Ancient Rome", but not to be used in
place of Pagan.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Days of the week
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:58:27 EDT

In a message dated 4/6/99 4:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a> writes:

<< Woden was normally assimilated
to Mercury (the trickster) >>

I thought Loki was the trickster? Woden was more like Jupiter as King of the
Gods.

Venator...wanna help us out here, you Asatru you!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Celebrate History
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:16:45 EDT

A great link for all...

<a href="http://www.omnibusol.com/ancient.html" target="_top" >http://www.omnibusol.com/ancient.html</a>

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:22:18 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/99 6:10:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:

<< Absolutely right! Many people in the Pagan Federation, for example, call
me an 'urban pagan' (what an oxymoron!) (mainly because my observances are
based in my home - where they should be, according to the Religio Romana -
and not in the woods (what IS it with this general idea pagans have that you
have to go out to the woods to be religious?!) but I don't lose any sleep
over it. >>

To answer you question...many pagans of the ancient world did celebrate
outdoors...the worship of Diana at Nemi was conducted in a grove, the rites
of Bacchus were not held indoors either. I'm sure there are more examples
but I'm too busy at work right now to think of them.

Why all this hoogaboloo about finding a nice & neat term? It is the Religio
Romana, it's the Pagan religion of ancient Rome - the polytheistic faith of
the pre-christian people.

I don't believe we should limit the wording. If you want to clarify, then go
ahead as stated above, but again, who are we trying to impress? The
christians? And while this next statement may bring about backlash and
resurrect another debate: THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION! Nova Roma
is dedicated to the restoration of classical Roman religion, culture, and
virtues. That classical religion was and is PAGAN!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Polytheism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:23:00 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 4/7/99 7:38:57 AM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=060100214139010197242218175036129208" >PTh0815@--------</--------;
writes:

<< Poor are the people who have but one God ;-)
>>

SALUTE!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:26:47 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/99 8:15:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Certainly, it's good to honor people from the past, the people that shaped
an important heritage. But it seems like taking names that are not our
own places us right up against that role-playing game edge. >>

Which is why when choosing my Roman name, I did not borrow one from history,
but rather made my own.

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:09:32 EDT

In response to Pagan becoming a dirty word...there was a TV series that is
still on if I recall where in the beginning there was this punk-rocker-ish
girl who claimed she was a Pagan and acted very unruly, etc. Eventually
converted to Catholocism and has had lots of improvements. This kind of
thing makes me sick. 100% pure Catholic propaganda. Not to mention the
person wasnt even a true Pagan but thats beside the point..


Subject:	Re: Proposal & Virus
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:10:40 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-07 09:10:52 EDT, you write:

<<
Salvete, omnes!

This is directed to those of you who received a Proposal (Comitia Populi)
from Callidus. Attached was a Virus called "CAP". In case your system has
been infected, it can be repaired. Here is some info on the virus for you:
>>

Salve,

Now THIS is news! I haven't opened that file, and don't dare to now. Has
anyone out there opened the file and actually had a problem?

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: V. Hanson
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:30:01 EDT

n --------ss--------d-------- 4/7/99 5:32:48 AM P--------ic D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=060100214139010197242218175036129208" >PTh0815@--------</--------;
writes:

<< "The Western Way of Warfare," "Hoplites," " the agricultural idea"( that�s
a
subtitle) and "family farms and ...". I am not sure about the last two
titles, I would be very grateful. Thanks. >>
Salve
Victor Davis Hanson is Keegan's protegee. His book "the Western Way of
Warfare" covers phalanx warfare in Greece in 900s-300s when the Macedonian
Phalanx replaces the Hellenic.
He analyses Greek warfare in the style of Keegan's "Face of Battle."
I don't agree with many of his assumptions, but that's OK. It's still a well
written book.

The other book of his is an analysis of growing grapes and olives in ancient
world.
Vale
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:46:13 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 4/7/99 11:10:12 AM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------;
writes:

<< there was a TV series that is
still on if I recall where in the beginning there was this punk-rocker-ish
girl who claimed she was a Pagan and acted very unruly, etc. Eventually
converted to Catholocism and has had lots of improvements. This kind of
thing makes me sick. 100% pure Catholic propaganda. Not to mention the
person wasnt even a true Pagan but thats beside the point.. >>

What T.V. show was this? "Touched by an Angel"? "Highway to Heaven"?

I'm in the progress of putting together my own programming...get ready for
such fun-filled episodes as "Touched by an Heathen"..."Highway to Hades"...

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	Michael Cessna clinkerbuilt2@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:55:52 -0700 (PDT)

>>
Salvete,

Well, speaking as a "Roman Pagan", this is something I can
DEFINATELY agree with!

For too long, polytheists in general have saddled with the "Pagan"
pejorative. I think this would be a change for the better.

Valete, omnes

Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus
>>
>
> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> The fact that our public documents refer to "Roman
> Paganism" bothers me a
> little. The term "pagan" is rather pejorative,
> synonymous with "heathen".
> The term "Polytheism", however, doesn't carry the
> same baggage, and I think
> in a linguistic sense, it would lend more dignitas
> to what we are about here
> in Nova Roma. Hindus, for instance, are
> polytheists, but I've never heard
> them referred to as pagans or heathens.
>
> How do others feel about this? Should our public
> documents be revised in
> favor of "Roman Polytheism?
>
> Vale.
>
> Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:58:25 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-07 11:56:49 EDT, you write:

> What T.V. show was this? "Touched by an Angel"? "Highway to Heaven"?
>
> I'm in the progress of putting together my own programming...get ready for
> such fun-filled episodes as "Touched by an Heathen"..."Highway to Hades"...
>
> --Dexippus

GOODY GOODY!!! And we JUST got a TV. But no cable Dex, so make sure NBC
will pick it up (do you know why I like NBC so much <G>)

Crys


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:26:04 -0400

Salvete Dexippe et alii

As long as we all remember that Nova Roma is not a role-playing game, and
that we are not the Romans of Roma Antiqua whose names we adopt, I see no
harm in honoring those Romans by taking on their names.

One useful thing about a name that is derived from a historical one is that
it can provide a possible clue as to the bearer's interests in Roma Antiqua.
Face-to-face meetings remain infrequent among us, and I think that both
historical names, and entry through existing gentes, can help the
familiarization process along and help us compensate for the social
disadvantage of communicating, almost exclusively, through e-mail and online
chats. Again, the name does not mean that its bearer is, or is trying to
be, a historical figure or deity, but that the bearer may well be interested
in the history in which that particular figure was prominent, or is devoted
to the deity invoked by his/her name et cetera. Or it could mean nothing
more than that the person liked the sound of the name and went with it, and
why not?

Another thing to keep in mind is that none of us (as far as I know) can
trace his/her biological ancestry back to any Roman, historical figure or
street-sweeping freedman. Any "ancestor" with whom we associate ourselves,
we deliberately choose, in much the same way as we come into Nova Roma, not
by birth but by deliberate choice (except, I believe, for Lapis Iunius --
sorry if the name is wrong/incomplete, it doesn't appear on the gens page).
Therefore, I would consider any Novoromanus' reference to a Roman ancestor
as a statement to honor that person, with whom the Novoromanus may feel a
spiritual or other kinship.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>
><< Certainly, it's good to honor people from the past, the people that
shaped
>an important heritage. But it seems like taking names that are not our
> own places us right up against that role-playing game edge. >>
>
>Which is why when choosing my Roman name, I did not borrow one from
history,
>but rather made my own.
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:52:00 -0400 (EDT)

The selection of my Roma name came about as a result of my looking for
someone who was an engineer. I got more than I bargained for when I
found Marcus, as he was a milles immunes (gromaciti / Gubernator)

(gromaciti: operator of a right-angled basic survey instrument;
--Gubernator: second-in-command or pilot of a vessel)

His specialties have pointed the way for much of my research in Roman
Roads and in Fleet activities, and has proven very beneficial to me in
many ways. Although I am a re-enactor, I do not re-enact here in Nova
Roma, and Gaius Marius Merullus has the right of it in his posting. I
did not select my roman because of any high honors that he may have
garnered but rather because his life work was of interest to me.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Polytheism vs. Paganism
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:06:15 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/99 11:59:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; writes:

<< But no cable Dex, so make sure NBC
will pick it up (do you know why I like NBC so much <G>) >>

NBC...Nothing But Cosby? : )

--Dexippus

Here's a list of other Dexie shows to hit the new season:

Veronica's Tunic
Allius McBealius
Dignitas & Greg
My Favorite Roman
My Three Suns


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:49:32 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-07 12:32:28 EDT, you write:

> Any "ancestor" with whom we associate ourselves,
> we deliberately choose, in much the same way as we come into Nova Roma, not
> by birth but by deliberate choice (except, I believe, for Lapis Iunius --
> sorry if the name is wrong/incomplete, it doesn't appear on the gens page).

te hehe

Lapis Lawrence Stone Meaker had been given the Latin mane of Marcus Iunius
Posterious by his GrandPaterfamilias (is there a Latin term for that, BTW?).

I do not know if he or Prima Iunia Terrelina will be added to the gens page.
I think it would be nice. Maybe in italics or another color of type or
something?

Ohhh webmistress...... <G>

Crys (tryin to get her kids in print <G>)


Subject:	NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:58:02 EDT

Ok all..here's the starting line up. Enjoy!

"Touched By an Heathen"
3 Pagans are sent from Olympus to Earth to share the joy and diversity of
Polytheism with an ever burdened and divided humanity (notice the use of all
three words...so lay off!)

"Highway to Hades"
Michaelis Landonis stars as a messenger of Plutonus sent from the Eleisian
Fields to help mortals trough their troubled lives

"Allius McBealius"
This popular sitcom focuses on the dysfunctional love life of one women
frequenting the vometoriums all too often

"Veronica's Tunic"
The zany and often hillarious story of one women's attempt to find peace with
herself and her wardrobe

"My Three Suns"
Sol, Apollo, and Mithras duke it out each week over who gets to drive the
Golden Chariot across the sky. Somehow at the end of each show, they decide
to share the reins.

"My Favorite Roman"
The story of one Roman, named Romulus, who gets catapulted into the far
distant future where he meets his distant descendant. The fun gets started
when Romulus' seemingly old ideas are the solutions to his descendant's
"modern" dilemmas.

"Dignitas & Greg"
The story of one married couple and how they relate to their families and the
rest of the world. He's from a conservative well-to-do clan and she grew up
celebrating the Bachnalia! The comedy is instantaneous!

"All In The Senate"
Consul Archus Bunkus is at it again with his un-politically correct views of
Egyptians, Greeks, and Carthaginians.

"That Gaul!"
The crazy antics of one country girl from Gaul in the big city of Alexandria!

"Dexie's Creek" (hey, you know I had to star in one of these!)
The heart-touching, one-hour series of one man's innermost thoughts and
feelings. His friends, his lovers, his family�and how he manages through his
life despite them all.

"Legion of Five"
After the fall of the Western Empire, one legion is left with only five men.
They must now stick together and help each other survive the barbareous rule
that has been thrust upon them.

"Friends�Romans, and Countrymen"
The hillarious story of six Emperors and the lives they lead. All centered
around a bath house.


Subject:	Re: NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:07:59 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/07/99 13:58:02 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>Ok all..here's the starting line up. Enjoy!

Gods, I'm still laughing! Dex, you've done it again! These sound much more entertaining than cable!

Except....what happened to my favorite show? Buffia the Harpy Slayer?

--Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:27:22 EDT


Subject:	Re: names and ancestors
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:45:41 EDT

Salvete,

Using historical names directly or in an altered form is nothing new. The
ancient Romans seem to have done it fairly often themselves! Look at the use
of the name "Caesar" after old Gaius Julius was long dead for instance...

I happened to be looking in the "Oxford Classical Dictionary" this morning,
and noticed *several* historical Roman names that were taken from mythology,
etc. The name "Glycon" was one of them. Glycon was the name of Asclepius'
snake, of all things, yet the Oxford entry listed Glycon as the name of an
official in Rome. My guess would be that this person had been named after
this mythological creature.

Come to think of it, I took the name "Julianus" in honor of the Emperor
Julian, yet I'm reasonably certain that I'm not merely role-playing just
because I've done so! ;)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Censor


Subject:	Re: NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:51:53 EDT

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh gods, I've been laughing so hard the secretaries here at work think I've
gone insane! GREAT stuff here! Thanks, Dex, I needed some hilaritas today...

-Cassius

In a message dated 99-04-07 14:34:41 EDT, Dexippus writes:

<< From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;

Ok all..here's the starting line up. Enjoy!

"Touched By an Heathen"
3 Pagans are sent from Olympus to Earth to share the joy and diversity of
Polytheism with an ever burdened and divided humanity (notice the use of all
three words...so lay off!)

"Highway to Hades"
Michaelis Landonis stars as a messenger of Plutonus sent from the Eleisian
Fields to help mortals trough their troubled lives

"Allius McBealius"
This popular sitcom focuses on the dysfunctional love life of one women
frequenting the vometoriums all too often

"Veronica's Tunic"
The zany and often hillarious story of one women's attempt to find peace
with
herself and her wardrobe

"My Three Suns"
Sol, Apollo, and Mithras duke it out each week over who gets to drive the
Golden Chariot across the sky. Somehow at the end of each show, they decide
to share the reins.

"My Favorite Roman"
The story of one Roman, named Romulus, who gets catapulted into the far
distant future where he meets his distant descendant. The fun gets started
when Romulus' seemingly old ideas are the solutions to his descendant's
"modern" dilemmas.

"Dignitas & Greg"
The story of one married couple and how they relate to their families and
the
rest of the world. He's from a conservative well-to-do clan and she grew up
celebrating the Bachnalia! The comedy is instantaneous!

"All In The Senate"
Consul Archus Bunkus is at it again with his un-politically correct views of
Egyptians, Greeks, and Carthaginians.

"That Gaul!"
The crazy antics of one country girl from Gaul in the big city of Alexandria!

"Dexie's Creek" (hey, you know I had to star in one of these!)
The heart-touching, one-hour series of one man's innermost thoughts and
feelings. His friends, his lovers, his family�and how he manages through
his
life despite them all.

"Legion of Five"
After the fall of the Western Empire, one legion is left with only five men.

They must now stick together and help each other survive the barbareous rule
that has been thrust upon them.

"Friends�Romans, and Countrymen"
The hillarious story of six Emperors and the lives they lead. All centered
around a bath house.


Subject:	The Virus on my Files
From:	Masterofhistor--------t;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166066165056209112225046026229222078143100196169130152150" >masterofhistor--------..</a>
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:27:36 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete,

I have heard one of you tell me there is a virus on
the file I had sent out yesterday. My virus scanning
software doesn't seen to register this virus, so right
now I cannot confirm or deny that it's there. If it
is present, I apologize for any inconvenience. I'll
try to clean up my system and dispatch new files by
the end of the week.

===
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Tribune of the People
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>


Subject:	Re: Proposal & Virus
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:02:33 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=197166235078158233169057046077006239136144139046209" >p--------s--------ne@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=197166235078158233169057046077006239136144139046209" >p--------s--------ne@--------</--------;
>
> Salvete, omnes!
>
> This is directed to those of you who received a Proposal (Comitia Populi) from Callidus. Attached was a Virus called "CAP".
>In case your system has been infected, it can be repaired.
>Here is some info on the virus for you:
>
> WM.Cap.A
> VirusName: WM.Cap.A
> Aliases: MW:CAP family, WordMacro/Cap.A:[var2], WM.Cap, WM/Cap, Winword.CAP, WM/CAP.A, WM.CAP.A, CAP, WM6.CAP, Macro.Word.Cap
> Infection Length: N/A
> Likelihood: common
> Target Platform: Application macros

>
> WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT OPEN ANY OTHER MSWORD DOCUMENTS!
FIND THE INFECTED FILES THAT HAVE THE EXTENTION OF .RTF
AND DELETE THOSE FILES. IF YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE, LET ME KNOW,
COMPUTER VIRII ARE MY HOBBY!

Guess this is one of those times it is fortunate that I do not have Word.
I wasn't able to open it anyway! I'll just delete it rather than get the
Word Converter I was going to get.

D. Iunius

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.


Subject:	Re: NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:42:32 EDT

In a message dated 4/7/99 2:08:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Except....what happened to my favorite show? Buffia the Harpy Slayer? >>

The ratings are in. "Buffia..." was piloted in Sardenia where it received
high ratings. However, the Harpy Anti-Defamation League launched a
successfull PR campaign to boycott the show if it was ever aired on network
television.

But with some creative marketing and opinion polls, our heroine Buffia will
still be swinging her sword to save the day....

The new plot will continue along the gothic comedy-drama of a beautiful young
girl and her fight - this time - to save the world from the barbarians. The
new show will be entitled "Buffia The Visigoth Slayer" and is scheduled for
release on NBC's new fall line-up!

(Happy Flavia?) : )

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: NBC
From:	PTh0815@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:39 EDT

Salve omnes,

I, ahm, don�t know, ahm, how to say this and it may hit some of us really
hard but I have to tell you that Buffia was cancelled and instead turned into
"Cordelia the vestal vergin. It�s about that girl who struggles desperatly
not being burried alife for you know what. ;-)

Vale

L. Caec. Metellus Scaevola


Subject:	Re: NBC's New Fall Line-Up
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:12:45 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 4/7/99 10:58:49 AM P--------ic D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
writes:

<< My Favorite Roman"
The story of one Roman, named Romulus, who gets catapulted into the far
distant future where he meets his distant descendant. The fun gets started
when Romulus' seemingly old ideas are the solutions to his descendant's
"modern" dilemmas. >>
This is a keeper. Give me a three page synopsis, and I'll try and sell it

Steve Phenow.
Bandwagon Prod.
(Q. Fabius)


Subject:	Re: Celebrate History
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:00:45 -0700

Flavia! (et omnes)

Does this mean your flying out here in a B-17?
Well, our table is supposed to be by the door, but where ever it is I know there won't
be more than one Nova Roma.

Ericus.

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> On 04/05/99 17:38:12 you wrote:
> >
> >From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
> >
> >Salvete, Quirites!
> >
> >I know that the number of NovaRomans that are making it to the Celebrate History
> >convention in South San Francisco, California over this coming weekend (9-11
> >Aprilis) is finite [almost to the point of in-finite]. Just the same, I wanted
> >to draw your attention to their website again. The Nova Roma website is linked
> >on the Celebrate History list of Participating Organizations.
> >
> Great!
> My Dad will be there with the Confederate Air Force, and I guess I'll go meet him!
> SF's always fun.
>
> -- Flavia Claudia