| Subject: |
Re: Outing to Museum of Fine Arts, Boston |
| From: |
Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:25:28 -0700 |
|
Kewl. I'll do my best to be there!
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> wrote:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> Cassius and I liked Pythia's idea of a New England Provincia outing (though of course we wouldn't exclude anyone else!) to the Museum of Fine Arts.
>
> It doesn't appear that we can find a day that will satisfy everyone - we are working stiffs and can only show up on weekends.
>
> So with deep regrets to those we're going to miss (especially Audens), we're going to present ourselves at the main entrance (side door) to the museum at 11 a.m. Saturday, April 17. We'd love to have you join us!
>
> After the museum exploration, we'll go off in search of a late lunch, and we may get ambitious and venture over to the Boston University Library to look up a few things. (Or we may go to Tower Records, or the early-music store, or over to Harvard Square - this part of the day is flexible and we're open to suggestions.)
>
> Let us know if you're planning to attend, so we don't go in without you!
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Share the wealth!
> <a href="http://www.ONElist.com" target="_top" >http://www.ONElist.com</a>
> Tell a friend about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities!
--
________________________________________________________________________________________________
The STUDIO at the SIGN OF THE HARP
<a href="http://www.signoftheharp.com" target="_top" >http://www.signoftheharp.com</a>
The largest selection of fine jewelry and diamonds available in Cyberspace.
Satisfaction Guarenteed.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:14:01 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete, Quirites.
Dexippus says, "I am so sorry that you feel PAGAN is a dirty word."
Whenever someone says, "I am sorry you feel the way you do," it brings a
smile to my lips, and this is the second time during the discussion of this
issue that I have had such occasion to smile. For if they are sincere, I
cannot help but be touched by their concern. And if they are not sincere,
well, what am I to make of such patronizing remarks, other than they are
feeble attempts to deflect attention from their own paucity of logic?
In any case, I would like to assure my good friend that I do not feel that
"pagan" is a dirty word, and if he will carefully examine the record, he
will discover that I have never stated such an opinion.
Dexippus says, "If you don't like it and want to call yourself something
different, then go right ahead."
I heartily thank my friend Dexippus for permitting me this freedom.
Likewise, he should feel at liberty to define himself as he sees fit. This
is not an issue.
Dexippus says, "There is nothing radical about the word PAGAN."
Yet there seems to be a very vocal group that insists on using it. I wonder
why?
Dexippus says, "We have the greater PAGAN/NEO-PAGAN community to lose. You
may not like them or may not agree with their own personal chosen paths, but
they are going to be the ones to support us and our endeavors with the
Religio, not the Christians, Muslims, and Jews no matter how liberal they
may be."
My friend's statement logically implies that if we chose to call ourselves
something other than pagans, these other groups would withdraw their
support. Quirites, Heaven defend us from such sturdy allies!
Finally, my good friend says, "But if Nova Roma is going to try to impress
the greater Judeo-Christo culture we live in, then it is going against the
idea for which I became a citizen and I will at that very moment surrender
my citizenship with this organization."
I am so much an admirer of Dexippus's wit that I am tempted to respond to
him with one of his own favorite phrases: "You Go Girl!"
But of course, I don't mean this at all. The loss of such a man of wit,
intelligence, and enthusiasm would be a blow to Nova Roma, and in any case,
such a remark could easily be misconstrued in any number of unfortunate
ways. I certainly mean no offense to my friend Dexippus. We have been on
the same side of issues more often than we have been on opposite sides, and
I have every reason to believe that this will continue to be so.
May the Gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
Valete.
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
World GenWeb Calabria
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name of the Rose (was 'What's in a Name?') |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:20:31 PDT |
|
Salvete Quirites!
> 4. Re: What's in a Name?
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
> 5. Re: What's in a Name?
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
> 9. Re: What's in a Name?
> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
Scripsit Gangalius:
>
> Nova Roma aspires to grow, eventually into a territorial nation. Therefore,
> it is altogether fitting and proper that we "try to impress" Christians and
> Jews. And Muslims, and Buddhists, and Hindus, et cetera. >>
- et deinde Dexippus:
>I wholeheartedly disagree! We are not here to impress anyone....
- well, for what it's worth, this is how I see it: good things impress good people, just by being. Bad people (e.g., bigots) will remain unimpressed no matter what. Besides the good, in my experience, there are plenty of bad and ugly people within every ideological denomination. Should Nova Romanes give a fico for the good opinion of such?
Dexippus continued:
> We are here to form a community of people who are inspired by and >enjoy the grandeur that was Rome.
- Ita! And Rome did not seek to impress her neighbours by agonising over theological terminology. That was (and is) best left to Greeks (!)
Thus again Dexippus:
> A large percentage of those people are PAGAN...and define
>themselves as PAGAN...not polytheists or heathens.
>different, then go right ahead.
- Me, I think I've found that monologic handle I've been yearning for: I'm going to start referring to myself as Roman. People can make of that what they will.
Again Dexippus:
>Going with your logic, I guess I'm not GAY...I'm HETEROSEXUALLY CHALLENGED?
- And let's call roses "Stinkthorns", while we're about it. Will it make any difference to them? Will they cease to impress? Will they be upset by the change of name?
Dexippus again:
>... But if Nova Roma is going to try to impress the greater
> Judeo-Christo culture we live in, then it is going against the idea for >which I became a citizen and I will at that very moment surrender my >citizenship with this organization. This is not a threat, just a fact. And I'm sure there are others who would feel the same
>way.
- Actually, Judaeo-Christian culture (aka Western 'Civilisation') seems to me to be under the delusion that it is the legitimate successor to Roma Antiqua in all things, so it's hardly going to be impressed if we make a similar claim!
Thus Gangalius:
> The loss of such a man of wit,
>intelligence, and enthusiasm would be a blow to Nova Roma...
- The gods forbid! Tell you what - in the absence of a Pontifex Maximus, shouldn't our augur be allowed to determine the most propitious word NR is to use in its official statements? ;-)
Valete in pace deorum,
N. Moravius Vado.
Rosa rosa rosa est est est.
|
| Subject: |
Re: list discussions |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:47:20 -0500 (CDT) |
|
On 04/13/99 02:14:01 you wrote:
>
>But of course, I don't mean this at all. The loss of such a man of wit,
>intelligence, and enthusiasm would be a blow to Nova Roma, and in any case,
>such a remark could easily be misconstrued in any number of unfortunate
>ways. I certainly mean no offense to my friend Dexippus. We have been on
>the same side of issues more often than we have been on opposite sides, and
>I have every reason to believe that this will continue to be so.
Personally, I think that these discussions on the e-list, though they certainly get varied and heated, are
a sign that people in Nova Roma THINK, and they're independent... not just posting all those
boring "me,too!" messages.
This place is never going to be lacking for opinions. It may get wild, but it sure ain't boring.
-- Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
<--------lass="msghead"> "Na-------- Hicks" &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------td>
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:49:06 -0400 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:29 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: What's in a Name?
><<We say
>that we welcome moderate people of all faiths, yet our sincerity would be
>better demonstrated by our own use of more moderate language.>>
>
>There is nothing radical about the word PAGAN. Emperor Julian used it to
>describe the Religio aside from Christianity. It is a part of our history
>and should remain intact.
>
>Going with your logic, I guess I'm not GAY...I'm HETEROSEXUALLY CHALLENGED?
No... That label is more suited to describing ugly heterosexuals.
Of course, if the two ugly people are also drunk, may it not indeed
lead to accidental homosexuality?
Rusticus Navifugiens
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:09:22 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
Nathan Hicks wrote:
> > In reply to Dex's
> >Going with your logic, I guess I'm not GAY...I'm HETEROSEXUALLY CHALLENGED?
>
> No... That label is more suited to describing ugly heterosexuals.
>
> Of course, if the two ugly people are also drunk, may it not indeed
> lead to accidental homosexuality?
>
> Rusticus Navifugiens
>
Rustii, your comment made me snort hot tea! Thanks for the humor injection.
Valete - Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:21:03 EDT |
|
In a message dated 99-04-13 09:09:33 EDT, you write:
> Rustii, your comment made me snort hot tea! Thanks for the humor injection.
>
> Valete - Venator
That HAD to hurt!!!!!!!
Crys
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name of the Rose (was 'What's in a Name?') |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:25:01 -0400 |
|
Salve,
From: Nicolaus Moravius <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>- The gods forbid! Tell you what - in the absence of a Pontifex Maximus,
shouldn't our augur be allowed
>to determine the most propitious word NR is to use in its official
statements? ;-)
Actually, we have a Pontifex Maximus (Marcus Cassius Julianus), and an
entire Collegium Pontificum. If anyone was going to make any sort of
official pronouncement on the subject (and I don't think that needs to be
done), I would certainly want it to be our highest-ranking religious
official, and would expect that he would make such a pronouncement after
consultation with his fellow members of the Collegium.
Remember that for the most part the term used in Nova Roma's official
documents to describe our official "state religion" is "Religio Romana". The
term "Roman Paganism" is merely used as a more generic descriptive term, for
those who might not know what the Religio Romana is. To quote from the first
paragraph of the Religio Romana page on the web site:
"The Religio Romana is the pre-Christian religion of Rome. Sometimes called
"Roman Paganism", the modern practice of the Religio Romana is an attempt to
reconstruct the ancient faith of Rome as closely as possible..."
In that context, the word "Paganism" is used not in any perjorative sense,
but in the modern sense of "a non-Christian religion, especially one of the
ancient polytheistic peoples" (that's a paraphrase of Webster's Dictionary),
just as Ásatrú is also called "Norse Paganism", Theodish Belief is also
called "Anglo-Saxon Paganism", etc.
(Just as an aside; the term "Heathen" (an Old Norse-derived word) is often
preferred by practitioners of the Germanic family of such faiths, while
"Pagan" (a Latin-derived word) often is used as a descriptor of a Celtic,
Mediterranean, or Middle-Eastern faith, but it's not a hard and fast rule,
and "Pagan" is by far the more prevalent term.)
The "Pagan community"-- that is, those of us who practice the Religio
Romana, or Ásatrú, or Druidism, or Wicca, or whatever-- choose to identify
ourselves as "Pagan". I would no more welcome an attempt by non-pagans to
force us to use a different term merely because it causes them discomfort
than I imagine our Christian Citizens would welcome an attempt by us to
force them to use the term "Nazarenes" to identify themselves just because
"Christian" carries a lot of negative associations for many Pagans. A lot of
this terminology is self-applied, and I think the best rule of thumb in this
case is to just call people what they prefer to be called.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
The Name Game |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:04:59 EDT |
|
Salvete,
A couple random thoughts:
If I'm in a hurry, I call myself Pagan. Legally I call myself Religio
Romana. Personally I call myself Crystal (OK, Crys when I'm in a hurry <G>)
I will not call myself African-American until someone proves to me my
ancestors (on that side anyway) came from Africa. What kind of fool do I
look like calling myself African American and then find out my ancestors were
brought over from JAMICA (ya mon!)!!! Unfortunately the path gets frigidly
cold round about the end of slavery. I may never know, so I guess I'll stick
to black.
Then again, I am 1/3 black 1/3 white and 1/3 Indian (don't know which ribe
for any of the before mentioned, BTW). Should Dex call himself an
Italian/Gay/Wiccan/Roman (sorry Dex, I know most about you and your as
thorough a melting pot as Terry and Lapis almost LOL)??
BTW, HOW did we get back on THIS discussion?? I'll be damned if I can
remember <G>.
Crys (a hetro/black/white/indian/roman/pagan/female/mater -- I hope I covered
it all <G>)
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:07:03 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/12/99 9:12:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
writes:
<< Whenever someone says, "I am sorry you feel the way you do," it brings a
smile to my lips, and this is the second time during the discussion of this
issue that I have had such occasion to smile. >>
Glad I could bring a smile to your face...my work here on earth is complete!
: )
<>
It's all about personal liberties my friend. You can call yourself a
One-Eyed Flying Purple People Eater for all I care! : ) Hell, I'm the
Divus Maximus Extremus...the Flaming Queen of the Capitoline Hill....it's
gotta amount to something someday!
<<Dexippus says, "There is nothing radical about the word PAGAN."
Yet there seems to be a very vocal group that insists on using it. I wonder
why?>>
For the same reason others call themselves Christians, Muslims, Jews,
Buddhists, or Witches...because, that is what they are! The use of the word
"Polytheist" to describe the Religio Romana is probably not an accurate word.
For the ancients were more or less henotheists...believing in one god (as a
devotee) but not denying the existence or grandeur of other gods. As it has
been stated before, "Pagan" is what the Romans used to describe their own
religion once Christianity became a force that was recognizably different.
Why some people insist that it's a "dirty word" and one that should be used
only to inflict harm is beyond me.
<<My friend's statement logically implies that if we chose to call ourselves
something other than pagans, these other groups would withdraw their
support. Quirites, Heaven defend us from such sturdy allies!>>
Withdraw their support? Perhaps no...but why should we remove ourselves from
them? To claim "we're not Pagans, we're Polytheists" would be akin to
claiming "We're not Buddhists, we're just followers of Buddha". Why the
attempt to segregate? It would seem only because of prejudice and bigotry
against the greater Neo-Pagan community. Problems with Wicca? Problems with
Neo-Native Americans? Problems with Celtophiles? Problems with Asatru? All
these groups claim themselves Pagan...yes, they may also use Polytheists or
Heathen at times, but the general term is Pagan. Let's not create dissention
in a community that needs cohesiveness!
<>
{{SNAP}}...tell a friend, child!
<<But of course, I don't mean this at all. The loss of such a man of wit,
intelligence, and enthusiasm would be a blow to Nova Roma, and in any case,
such a remark could easily be misconstrued in any number of unfortunate
ways. >>
I'm flattered. Thank you. However, I have made it perfectly clear on more
than one occassion that my reasons for being a part of this organization are
wholeheartedly due to its claim to be a Pagan Organization dedicated to the
restoration of Classical Roman Paganism (among other things). If I was
looking simply for a classical studies group, I would have done much better
in joining the local Classics Club at the college down the street. And
without any disrespect to the christians among us, I have no love for the
Christian church, its teachings, or its political pull. And I will not in
anyway become apologetic for being PAGAN and trying to water-down its
perception just to find tolerance. As I have said regarding being gay...you
may tolerate your neighbors dog barking through the night...you may tolerate
the landscaper's lawn mower at 8:30am on Sunday...you ACCEPT what other
people are! The same is as true for Pagans as it is for
Gay/Lesbian/Bi-Sexual/Trans-gendered people. Calling oneself Polytheist or
Heathen over Pagan is not going to gain acceptance. As someone has said on
this list...it's not the word, it's the worship that people have a problem
with.
<>
No offense is taken. Differing of opinions are always going to be present.
I'm merely stating my own feelings about it.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name of the Rose (was 'What's in a Name?') |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:11:23 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/13/99 6:20:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
<< The gods forbid! Tell you what - in the absence of a Pontifex Maximus,
shouldn't our augur be allowed to determine the most propitious word NR is to
use in its official statements? ;-)
>>
Ha Ha! Oh the power I have!
Ok...henceforth we shall be known as "The Imperial-Well
Adjusted-Mediterranean-Monarchs of the Ethereal Plains!"
--Dexippus
The Augur has spoken! : )
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:13:45 EDT |
|
In a message da--------4/13/99 8:52:09 AM Eas-------- Dayligh--------me, &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------br>
writes:
<< No... That label is more suited to describing ugly heterosexuals.>>
ROFLMAO!
<<Of course, if the two ugly people are also drunk, may it not indeed
lead to accidental homosexuality? >>
there are no accidents! Ave Bacchus for revealing their true selves! : )
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name of the Rose (was 'What's in a Name?') |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:14:16 EDT |
|
In a message dated 99-04-13 10:12:40 EDT, you write:
> "The Imperial-Well
> Adjusted-Mediterranean-Monarchs of the Ethereal Plains!"
hmmm..... TIAMMEP
sounds a bit like tie-em-up to me!!! Dex, you'r somethin else!!!
Love ya -- Crys
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name of the Rose (was 'What's in a Name?') |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:18:34 EDT |
|
Thank you Germanicus for speaking out on this. I was waiting for something
from the Founders or Consuls or Pontiffs or whatever! : )
--Dexippus
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
PaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPaganPagan
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Name Game |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:20:54 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/13/99 10:05:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; writes:
<< Should Dex call himself an
Italian/Gay/Wiccan/Roman (sorry Dex, I know most about you and your as
thorough a melting pot as Terry and Lapis almost LOL)?? >>
Hey...no problem...but it would go more like this:
Italian/Sicilian/Gay/Queen/Freak/Roman/Wiccan/Pagan...with a twist! : )
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:40:51 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes
This is so interesting how some of these discussions/arguments
have become cyclic.
There are two problems with the use of the term 'Pagan'.
Firstly, The Religio Romana is not a pagan religion in the true
(Latin) definition of the word.
"Paganus-a-um adj. of a village, rustic; ignorant // m. villager, peasant;
(pejorative) yokel."
IMHO Romans were some of the most urban peoples of the ancient world.
Their religion (and ours) was and is practiced by intelligent (and some not
so intelligent ;-) , educated (and some not as well educated) city
inhabitants.
Secondly, in the modern definition there is the matter of the modern and
incorrect perception of 'pagans'.
"Pagan, n. 1.Heathen 2. one who has little or no religion and who delights
in sensual pleasures and material goods: an irreligious or hedonistic
person"
We are Not 'irreligious' and 'hedonistic',
Now as far as to how Individuals should describe Themselves, each
Individual should do as they feel correct.
As far as the state religion of Nova Roma, I prefer Religio Romana.
As for myself, just don't call me late for dinner.
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a> writes:
>> But, as a nation, the face that Nova Roma presents to the world should be
>one that is inviting, not challenging; confident, not defiant.>>
>
>But that is my point exactly! To me, and the vast majority of pagans I
>associate with, the word pagan is NOT a defiant and challenging term.
>
However, to the uninformed Pagan does have negative connotations,
weather we like it or not. The key is to educate.
><<We say that the gates of the city are open, but across the arch is the
word
>PAGAN.>>
>
>It is a term descriptive of the official faith path of Nova Roma. <SNIP>
Even the pagan citizens rarely, if ever, dicuss the many varied paths we
follow in any detail.
>
This would be incorrect using the correct definition of the word, and if you are referring to 'the many and varied paths' then perhaps you are not discussing the Religio Roman but something else.
><<We say that we welcome moderate people of all faiths, yet our sincerity
>would be better demonstrated by our own use of more moderate language.>>
>
>I disagree. I think we as a nation demonstrate our sincerity here on this
>list. <SNIP>>threat or challenge seen in the term pagan is, in my
estimation, imagined on the part of the reader.
>
Exactly, a better way is to educate people on the proper use of the
term.
>I go back to my original post. The point here is that yes, some folks have
a
>problem with the term pagan. Why would we asume the problem is with a mere
>word and not the concept of a ploytheistic religion? <SNIP>That, my
friend, will not change with a mere alteration in terms.
>
While it is true that many people have a prejudice of polytheistic
religions, this term does not seem to have the emotional impact that 'pagan'
does. Most of you will agree that a Hindu, Shinto etc. are not seen the same
way as the generic "Pagan" is.
><<We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by this>>
>
>I disagree. I feel if we begin a pattern of altering or softening who we
are
>as a nation in order to attract new members, we will be selling a small
piece
>of ourselves>Priscilla Vedia Serena
I don't see how using the correct term will make all that much
difference one way or the other to people who will or will not ask for
citizenship. It hasn't seemed to make much of a difference so far. I think
there is enough information on the website for people to begin to understand
what Nova Roma and the Religio Romana are.
Homines quod volunt credunt. (people believe what they want)
(Iulius Caesar)
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Romanus Sum (I am Roman)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Outing to Museum of Fine Arts, Boston |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:37:24 -0400 (EDT) |
|
I am sorry to tell you that the 17th of April is the Battle Road
Re-Enactment (Concord-Lexington / Rev War) Event and I have been invited
by both the host unit (First Foot Guards) and the Commander of the
British Union Brigade to attend as an Assistant Crown Engimeer on
detached service from the 42nd Regiment of Foot (Royal Highland
Regiment--Black Watch), my regiment. I committed to that event last
October, do to the big doings they have planned for the year 2000. If
you are looking for something to do, you might drive out an d say hi.
There is, however, a very good chance that I can make it on the 24th.
The guy that I usually go with to Confederate Memoeial Day Weekend can't
go this year, and I will be able to gladhand everybody on Sunday anyway.
If you are all up for the 24th of April, then I will be able to join
you. If not, drop by the Battle-Road!!!
Marcus Audens
(aka: Captain-Lieutenant Ian McKay, Assistant Crown Engineer, on
detached duty from His Most Britannic Majesty's 42nd Regiment of Foot
(Royal Highland Regiment --Black Watch) First Battalion, General John
Murray's Company)
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Ludi Romani |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:59:44 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
I'm posting to remind you of the Roman Games tomorrow, in honour of Ceres.
It will be at:
<a href="http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/k/912054/index.html" target="_top" >http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/k/912054/index.html</a>
5 PM in Portugal; 9 AM in LA, please synchronize...
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedile Plebis
|
| Subject: |
A proposal on some mechanics of voting |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:54:20 -0400 |
|
Avite Patres Conscripti
I believe that, as challenging as formation of the assemblies is, it will
prove to have been the simplest part of organizing voting in Nova Roma.
With that in mind, and to try to help the flow of ideas on the subject of
assemblies and their speakers, I submit the following.
This proposal assumes that a basis for forming tribes and centuries has been
adopted (proposals outlining possible bases have been submitted by M Mucius
Scaevola, A Tullius Callidus and F Vedius Germanicus). Please understand
also that the use of indicative verbs and 'must' etc. do not presuppose that
the proposal will be adopted, but are merely used to make the proposal more
readable.
Following adoption of a rational basis for forming tribes and centuries, the
consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) will compile two tables:
the table of the centuries and the table of the tribes. A third table, the
table of plebeian tribes, is then derived from the table of the tribes.
Citizens will be listed in the rows of these tables; centuries and tribes
will occupy columns. Each citizen's position in the tables will be unique,
which fact can be utilized to facilitate generation and record of voter
codes, should the magistrates so desire.
The consuls will announce the completion of this task to the citizens and
notify them that they will receive further notification containing tribal
and centuriate assignment and voter code. At the time of the first
announcement by the consuls, or in the text of assignment notification
messages distributed thereafter, a statement should be included paraphrasing
article IV of the constitution of Nova Roma and instructing citizens to
prepare to elect speakers.
Preparation for election of speakers proceeds as follows:
1. The consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) modify the cista
page of the NR website such that citizens can therein enter:
-voter code
-up to three names, each to be selected from three drop-down lists, of
nominated speakers
2. The consuls announce a period of 3-5 days for nomination of tribal and
centuriate speakers
3. Nominated citizens accept or reject nomination by notification to the
censors; their announcement of their decisions in NR's fora is optional but
does not in and of itself constitute acceptance or rejection.
4. The consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) create
duplicates of the table of the centuries, the table of the tribes and the
table of plebeian tribes for the purpose of allocating nominees for speaker
positions.
5. At the end of the nomination period described in step 2. above, the
consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) review the tables
described in step 4. above to verify that at least one nominee for each
tribe and century has accepted nomination. If yes, then step 6. can be
undertaken; otherwise, a sequence of action much like steps 2. and 3. must
be repeated for those tribes and centuries lacking eligible candidates for
speaker positions.
6. The consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) put the modified
cista page online, and the consuls instruct citizens to vote for tribal and
centuriate speakers by means of that page within a certain timeframe.
7. At the end of the timeframe established in step 6., the censors mark the
names of elected speakers in the table of the centuries, table of the tribes
and table of plebeian tribes. The consuls, censors, or their designated
magistrate(s) send elected speakers lists of voters within their respective
centuries and tribes; these lists should include voter codes and contact
information. For those citizens who lack e-mail, mailing addresses are to
be included, but it is the sole responsibility of those citizens to furnish
the censors with mailing addresses.
8. The consuls, censors, or their designated magistrate(s) distribute
notification to citizens of the names and contact information of their
tribal and centuriate speakers.
When a magistrate convenes an assembly in accordance with Article IV of the
constitution, voting is conducted over a 30 day period by the following
procedure:
i. A magistrate is designated by consular decree to count the assembly's
votes
ii. The magistrate having convened the assembly prepares an electronic
ballot and an electronic template of a paper ballot and submits these to the
censors
iii. The censors immediately forward the ballots to the tribal or centuriate
speakers, depending on which assembly is to vote
iv. Immediately upon receipt of the ballots, the speakers are to announce
to their constituent tribes or centuries that he/she is in receipt of
ballots. The announcement can be made in NR's fora, or by means of separate
fora specific to the tribes and centuries. The announcement, together with
a paper ballot, should be mailed to citizens lacking means to receive online
bulletins. The announcement should provide brief instructions on how to
obtain the ballot electronically, how to complete the ballot, and how to
submit completed ballots (encrypted and/or digitally signed e-mail,
web-based forms and ground mail are all options at the speakers' disposal),
as well as the deadline for submitting ballots
v. Each speaker collects ballots in accordance with his/her instructions
and tabulates the results for his/her tribe/century for the duration of the
voting period
vi. Upon the close of the voting period, each speaker submits the ballots
with the tabulated results to the magistrate designated by consular decree
to count the votes
vii. The magistrate designated by consular decree to count the votes does
so, and tabulates the overall results in such a way that each tribe or
century participating in the vote is listed, and the outcome of its vote is
shown. The designated magistrate then submits the completed table of votes
cast to the consuls and to the magistrate who convened the assembly.
viii. Within 30 days of completion of step vii, the magistrate designated
by consular decree to count the vote sends each citizen who participated in
the vote his/her respective completed ballot.
To follow this procedure would not be easy, but it or a similar procedure
would incorporate the use of speakers as specified in Article IV of the
constitution. Abuse is still possible, but would be possible to catch,
since each voter would receive back his/her ballot and could easily discern
whether it had been altered.
Vivat Nova Roma in omne tempus
Avite Patres Conscripti
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Ludi Romani: Schedule change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:51:37 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
Due to constraints of training and preparation of the gladiators, the Games'
schedule and place are changed. Instead of 9 AM (hour of LA):
- Local: <a href="http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/d/439123" target="_top" >http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/d/439123</a>
- The official beginning of the games shall be at Noon (hour of LA):
1) Speech given by the Aedile Plebis
2) Gladiatorial Games
- The Games (and speech) shall be rebroadcasted at 6 PM (hour of LA)
Citizen Quintus Fabius Maximus will have the honour to direct the Games and
select the gladiators.
Valete omnes
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedile Plebis
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
Shawn Kelle--------t;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176066098193209227056175101021089039144149189013098152150172" >discordianpirate@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 4/13/99 8:52:09 AM Eastern
&g--------ayligh--------me, &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------/fon--------r>
> writes:
>
> << No... That label is more suited to describing
> ugly heterosexuals.>>
>
> ROFLMAO!
>
> <<Of course, if the two ugly people are also drunk,
> may it not indeed
> lead to accidental homosexuality? >>
>
> there are no accidents! Ave Bacchus for revealing
> their true selves! : )
>
> --Dexippus
>
>
It's worthy of note to mention that everyone I know who has
experimented with homosexuality whilst drunk has also been a comic book
nerd...hmmm...
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail
> communities every day?
> <a href="http://www.ONElist.com" target="_top" >http://www.ONElist.com</a>
> Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at
> a new joke!
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Posted in the forum. |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:00:32 EDT |
|
Posted in the forum.
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!
Tommorrow at 12:00 Noon PDT Flavis Eburnus of Luceria
will engage in mortal combat with Acco of the Esulates at the Arena
<a href="http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/d/439123" target="_top" >http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/d/439123</a>
You will need your password to enter.
Flavis the Samnite is 5' 4" 148 lbs, good looking burnate. He'll be fighting
as a Myrmillo. This means he has a scutum (oblong shield) a short sword, one
greave, armor for his sword arm and hand as well as the sword shoulder. His
armor will be tinned so he'll appear to have silver armor.
Flavis has had 10 fights. 6 kills.
Acco of the Esulates tribe is a Gaul. He is 5' 7" 170 lb., a blonde with two
mustaches. He will also be fighting as a Myrmillo. His armor will be guilded
so he'll appear to have golden armor.
Acco has had 7 previous fights. 4 kills.
Be there!!
For those who can't make the noon bout, we will rebroadcast it at 6:00 PM
PDT. We would appreciate if people that attended the bout would refrain from
making comments about winners and losers until the rebroadcast is completed.
Thank you.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=113100020078018198218097203102129208071" >ETillery@--------</a> (Ed-------- Tillery) |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:03:08 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.
My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
angry God. Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman
Antiquity, or is it just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not
reality. Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't
believe in, or worship, the gods of antiquity?
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:19:51 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/13/99 12:03:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=113100020078018198218097203102129208071" >ETillery@--------</a> --------es:
<< Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.<<
Salve!
This is true. This is also why I, Q. Fabius dislike the term "Pagan"
>> My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
angry God.>>
This is the problem with Yeweh, no sense of humor. The Roman gods are more
humanistic, hedonistic, and accessible
>>Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman Antiquity, or is it
just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not reality.<<
Speaking for myself, yes I carry out rituals and prayers to the Gods. Who is
to say that they are no more real then any other worshipped deity. I do know
this, my life has changed considerable after making the change from
Christianity, to polytheism.
>> Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't believe in, or
worship, the gods of antiquity?<<
The right to worship the Jewish religio was protected under Lex in the Old
Republic as an "Ancient Religio" NR is no different. Just that holding a
magistrate's office might be a problem. We expect those to conduct public
rituals to the Gods of Rome.
Vale
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:45:16 EDT |
|
In a message dated 99-04-13 15:03:11 EDT, you write:
>
> Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.
> My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
> God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
> fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
> angry God. Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman
> Antiquity, or is it just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not
> reality. Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't
> believe in, or worship, the gods of antiquity?
>
>
Gods!!! Is it me, or does this make anyone else nervous?
Crys (wondering if she's just plain losing it)
|
| Subject: |
Other faiths was Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:15:35 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes
I don't know who asked the question to point the thread in this direction,
but I think that the materials on the website cover the question pretty
effectively.
Whoever asked
>
>>
>> Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.
>> My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
>> God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
>> fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
>> angry God. Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman
>> Antiquity, or is it just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not
>> reality. Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't
>> believe in, or worship, the gods of antiquity?
>>
>>
Just go the website <a href="http://novaroma.org" target="_top" >http://novaroma.org</a> In particular, look at
<a href="http://novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html" target="_top" >http://novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html</a>
If you still have questions, come back and ask away.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:28:52 PDT |
|
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>Salve Marcus Martianus
>
>You present what I think is a very intelligent and reasoned
argument. I
>think that this issue is, unfortunately, more a matter of feelings
than
>of reason. Also, I think that there are some citizens who very much
DO
>want to flaunt the word PAGAN in others' faces.
And sometimes it is just the word that feels right. I don't stick my
pentacle in anyone's face - or the word Pagan for that matter. I
won't apologize for my preference, nor would I expect the honorable
Gangalius to apologize for his. Disgustibus non disputandum.
>Reason rarely prevails where passions are already entrenched.
>
>Vale,
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>
>
>sic friatur crustum dulce.
>
>(Thus the cookie crumbles.)
L. Iunia Cypria
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com" target="_top" >http://www.msn.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:48:04 PDT |
|
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 4/11/99 11:48:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>writes:
>
>> But, as a nation, the face that Nova Roma presents to the world
should be
>one that is inviting, not challenging; confident, not defiant.>>
>
>But that is my point exactly! To me, and the vast majority of
pagans I
>associate with, the word pagan is NOT a defiant and challenging
term. It
>simply isn't!! It is a definition, a descriptive term, no more no
less.
>
Te Laudo! You've hit upon it exactly!
Ave et Vale
Lucina Iunia Cypria
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com" target="_top" >http://www.msn.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?What=B4s?= in a name |
| From: |
heckifiknow@--------) |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:30:30 +0200 |
|
Salve,
I think it was Symachus or someone from this circle who stated ( free
translation from German): You cannot solve this mystery/secret by only
one way.
And even in the bible there are many hints that the "one" god fought
against other gods. ( see Ranke-Graves"hebrew mythology")
Logically the bible admits here the existence of other gods, or am I
losing my mind;-)
Vale
Lucius Metellus
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:06:17 PDT |
|
>
>In a message dated 4/12/99 9:12:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>writes:
>
><< Whenever someone says, "I am sorry you feel the way you do," it
brings a
> smile to my lips, and this is the second time during the discussion
of this
> issue that I have had such occasion to smile. >>
>
>Glad I could bring a smile to your face...my work here on earth is
complete!
>: )
There are certainly worse accomplishments than causing an honored
friend to smile. :)
>
>It's all about personal liberties my friend. You can call yourself
a
>One-Eyed Flying Purple People Eater for all I care! : ) Hell,
I'm the
>Divus Maximus Extremus...the Flaming Queen of the Capitoline
Hill....it's
>gotta amount to something someday!
Ave Divus Maximus, te laudo!
><<Dexippus says, "There is nothing radical about the word PAGAN."
>
>Yet there seems to be a very vocal group that insists on using it.
I wonder
>why?>>
Why does passion have to translate to radical in-your-face? I've
never been that type of person, and I've never taken offense at the
word Pagan. It is what I am. Ego quod ego et ego pagana. I also
identify as a Dianic witch, I don't shove that down anyone's throat
either, but I certainly wouldn't shy from calling myself such and I
wouldn't deny being such if asked. Something which is a matter of
pride does not have to be a matter of arrogance - there is a
difference. Why are you so insistant that one equals the other?
>For the same reason others call themselves Christians, Muslims,
Jews,
>Buddhists, or Witches...because, that is what they are! The use of
the word
>"Polytheist" to describe the Religio Romana is probably not an
accurate word.
> For the ancients were more or less henotheists...believing in one
god (as a
>devotee) but not denying the existence or grandeur of other gods.
As it has
>been stated before, "Pagan" is what the Romans used to describe
their own
>religion once Christianity became a force that was recognizably
different.
>Why some people insist that it's a "dirty word" and one that should
be used
>only to inflict harm is beyond me.
Exactly!
To claim "we're not Pagans, we're Polytheists" would be akin to
>claiming "We're not Buddhists, we're just followers of Buddha". Why
the
>attempt to segregate? It would seem only because of prejudice and
bigotry
>against the greater Neo-Pagan community. Problems with Wicca?
Problems with
>Neo-Native Americans? Problems with Celtophiles? Problems with
Asatru? All
>these groups claim themselves Pagan...yes, they may also use
Polytheists or
>Heathen at times, but the general term is Pagan. Let's not create
dissention
>in a community that needs cohesiveness!
Wonderful! You have hit the nail on the head!
>
>{{SNAP}}...tell a friend, child!
You go, Dex!
And
>without any disrespect to the christians among us, I have no love
for the
>Christian church, its teachings, or its political pull.
I have to agree with you here again. I have a great deal of love and
respect for my Christian family and friends but they are not the sort
of Christians who seem to have this urge to make their beliefs law.
There are times when I am so afraid that the radical Christians are
going to succeed in turning this country into a de facto theocracy of
their stripe.
<some snipping>
I will not in
>anyway become apologetic for being PAGAN and trying to water-down
its
>perception just to find tolerance. As someone has said on
>this list...it's not the word, it's the worship that people have a
problem
>with.
Indeed, those who have a problem with us don't care what we call
ourselves. (Just check out some of the intolerance sites on the web,
some are frightening) They have a problem because we don't worship
their God in their way with their benediction and dogma. We could
call ourselves the Holy Church of Great Cthulhu and the reaction
would be the same.
Valete
Lucina Iunia Cypria
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com" target="_top" >http://www.msn.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ludi Romani |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:18:11 -0700 |
|
Umm...Graecus...that is Nocta's and my Domus.....Fabius gave you the other
rooms....that I got for you...but that room is Nocta's! :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
Antonio Grilo wrote:
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I'm posting to remind you of the Roman Games tomorrow, in honour of Ceres.
> It will be at:
> <a href="http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/k/912054/index.html" target="_top" >http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/k/912054/index.html</a>
>
> 5 PM in Portugal; 9 AM in LA, please synchronize...
>
> Valete
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Aedile Plebis
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a> and
> select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
Steven Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:51:10 -0500 |
|
Vertu Saell and Salve Edward;
Yod-He-Voh-He is the "One True God" of the Tribes of Israel. All the other
Holy Ones do exist and are worshipped by members of the other tribes on
earth.
I myself, am child and friend to the Gods and Goddesses of Aesgard. I also
respect and honor the Mighty Ones of Olympus as cousins to the Aesir and
Vanir. Everyone here is a devout person of Faith. No matter what your
Religious Practices in private may be, a given of being a Citizen of Nova
Roma is respecting the idea that the Olympians do live. We have Christian
Cives, Quaestor Audens and the Military Tribune Marius Fimbria come
immediately to mind. They are Christians True and Proud, but are capable of
accepting that others do not give Worship to their Holy One.
If you feel unable to give credence to the idea that other people do worship
differently than you, Nova Rome may not be the place for which you seek.
In Amicus et Troth - Venator aka Piparskegg
P.S. Could you please save us some bandwidth and put the NCC-17 USS
Enterprise (TM Paramount Pictures) in the barn?
Edward Tillery wrote:
>
> Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.
> My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
> God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
> fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
> angry God. Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman
> Antiquity, or is it just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not
> reality. Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't
> believe in, or worship, the gods of antiquity?
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Augur (was The Name of the Rose) |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:20:20 -0700 |
|
Salvete, Quirites.
A point of clarification.
Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
> - The gods forbid! Tell you what - in the absence of a Pontifex Maximus, shouldn't our augur be allowed to determine the most propitious word NR is to use in its official statements? ;-)
The powers of the Augurs in Nova Roma:Article VI,...
"4. ...<snip the number and appointment there of>... They (Augurs) shall be responsible for the interpretation of divine approval or disapproval of the actions of the State, by means of the ancient systems of reading auspices and auguries. They shall hold the exclusive prerogative of defining templum (sacred spaces)."
_Dictionary of Roman Religion_ (Adkins and Adkins) p. 23 (ca. seventh line down in the entry) :
... Augury was done not to foretell the future, but to find out if a proposed course of action had divine approval (whether _fas_ as opposed to _nefas_)."
For all that our Dexippus does, as an Augur he does not determine word choice, or assign penance, or declare war/peace (both of which are good for business). That is as an Augur. As a Dexippus is an entirely different kettle of garum.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:47:25 -0700 |
|
Salvete.
I don't know why I'm chiming in on this thread. Maybe because I hope that it
will die for another few months. All the Gods who ever were and ever will be
know that I'm of the opinion it won't go anywhere.
On one thing...and I've said this one before...
>While it is true that many people have a prejudice of polytheistic>religions,
this term does not seem to have the emotional impact that 'pagan'
>does. Most of you will agree that a Hindu, Shinto etc. are not seen the same
>way as the generic "Pagan" is.
That depends on who you talk to. I've met "Christians" who hold that anyone Not
of their evangelical persuasion are pagans, heathens, Dig? This not only
includes, most certainly, Hindus and Shinto but also Buddhists, Moslems and even
Jews. What happened the last time I brought this up was, among other things,
people arguing with it. No argument. This is what I have been told by theses
folk. And, yes, they weren't really willing to consider Catholics and regular
Prots as xtians either. You can't argue with what people believe, no matter how
turkey stupid it is.
Homines quod volunt credunt. (people believe what they want)
(Iulius Caesar)
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: What's in a Name? |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:32:02 EDT |
|
Salve
I don't know if you're losing it, Crys, but I see nothing here to get
nervous about. The guy is saying he has fixed, conventional religious
notions. So what? He's not threatening anyone (irritating a few, no
doubt).
Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------;
>
>In a message dated 99-04-13 15:03:11 EDT, you write:
>
>>
>> Based on the glossary of terms related to Judaism Pagan means Heathen.
>> My personal definition is the worship of gods other than the one True
>> God Jehovah. "You shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3. I
>> fully believe this, for God is a jealous God, & a jealous God is an
>> angry God. Do you people really believe in all the gods of Roman
>> Antiquity, or is it just pretend? I can deal with pretend, but not
>> reality. Could I still be a member of Nova Roma even though I don't
>> believe in, or worship, the gods of antiquity?
>>
>>
>
>Gods!!! Is it me, or does this make anyone else nervous?
>
>Crys (wondering if she's just plain losing it)
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
|
| Subject: |
Celebrate History |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:52:25 -0700 |
|
We went. It was cool. We made it back.
At the event were Q. Fabius. L. Fabius. The Martiani Gangalii. And myself.
I want to write up a longer report, less than 25 scrolls, but that will have to
wait.
All the flyers went over well (with the exception of one person). The surprise
hit was the flyer I made of the Declaratio Religio. All but two went the first
night, and I don't think they were taken by hostiles. More later, unless you
are lucky.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor ad Californiam Provinciam
Pontiff
Paterfamilias gens Aelia
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