Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: YHVH
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:27:14 -0700

Shawn Kelley wrote:

> From: Shawn Kelle--------t;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176066098193209227056175101021089039144149189013098152150172" >discordianpirate@--------</a>
>
> Actually...I had heard that YHVH was a Mesopotamian air elemental, and
> the tribe that took this elemental as their patron claimed S/he/it to
> be the one true God for political purposes...hmm...
>

Where'd you get that?

Pythia


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:10:33 -0700

RMerullo wrote:

> From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
>
> Religio Romana is not unusual in employing animal sacrifice: the Hebrew
> religion also made use of it, at least up to the time of the destruction of
> the Great Temple by Roman legions in the 1st century CE.

And if you look at my site, www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp in my
"Interesting Links" section, you will find the "Temple Mount Faithful" who are
gearing up to do it properly once again.

>
>
> Maybe you meant human sacrifice? Or that you personally and others who
> follow a similar path don't make blood sacrifices?

I know Dex opposes it. There is a case to be made for an ancient preference
against animal sacrifices. I know Pythagoras taught against it, as did some
later philosophers. I think it is impractical on an individual basis, but in a
large public ceremony I think it is appropriate. Of course the US government
might not agree ;-)

Pythia

>


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:14:32 -0700


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:15:37 -0700

Well, I don't think we need the blood, but a smoked shoulder would be nice! ;-)

Pythia

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------;
>
> In a message dated 99-04-15 11:02:47 EDT, you write:
>
> > But today we have
> > supermarkets...there is no need to "kill your own".
>
> Well, Don and his oldest son are going hunting for 'Boar' (Pigs, let's face
> it <G>) and taking it to this place that will chop up the animal for you. I
> don't know what they do with the blood, but I know what I will be doing with
> the meat.........
>
> If NR would like some sort of supply, I can see if they will give me the
> blood from our pork.
>
> Crys (and yes, I was serious)
>
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Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:17:26 -0700

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:But you get these fre--------s who w-------- be p--------s ----------------go
out and get their

> hands on a goat or chicken or puppy...torture the poor animal...spill its
> blood on a fire or burn its carcus and say "there...a sacrifice!".
>
> Turns my stomach!
>
> Me too. Suffice it to say, the above mentioned is not a sacrifice but a
> juvenile act of cruelty

Pythia

>
>
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Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:06:42 -0700

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 4/15/99 12:10:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
> writes:
>
> << No Dex...they did eat the sacrificial animals...It was a big feast, and
> like the
> Hellenes you were'nt allowed to leave anything over. The "burnt flesh refers
> to
> the cooking! lol
> >>
>
> Really? I always thought it was among the Hebrews that the lamb was to be
> burnt upon the altar but the bones and fat were to be discarded and that
> eating of it was prohibited because it then belonged to god.
>
> --Dexippus

One of the funny/sad things about being Jewish is listening to everyone else
interpret our stuff for us! If it isn't the born again Christians telling us alot
of BS about our own trads its the Pagans!! lol.

In fact is you look into the historical documentation on the Feast Of Tabernacles
(Succot) you will see that huge family groups would make the pilgrimage to
Jerusalem, leading bulls all garlanded with wreaths. Once there they would build
a temporary living space all decorated with fruit and flowers and get good and
drunk. There would be alot od acrobatic dancing in the Temple courtyard, and
especially fire dances. One the day of the sacrifices you had to make sure you
had enough to feed everyone in your group. A part of the meat always went to the
Levites (the priests) for their food.

This is a week long festival and people still build the booths, and get drunk!
There is a little ceremony in the morning of each day where the men wave a wand
of palm, myrtle, another plant I cant remember, and a citron (to be kosher, the
tip has to be whole and it looks like a circumcised phallus). There are four
species of plant in this wand and it gets waved in four directions.

This is the feast Tacitus (I think) refers to as originating in the worship of
Zeus Sabezius. It has alot of pagan elements, especially there are the
"Ushpizzin" the seven sacred ancesters that are formally "invited" into the booth
with the family.

Personally I think Sukkot is very cool.

Pythia

>
>


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:06:20 -0700

> <>
>
> The deities which I worship, I believe to be eternal in the truest sense of
> the word, without begginning and without end. This obviusly would exclude
> evolution of such beings. Can we truly be so vain to assume that any God
> would evolve with us? I believe that we should strive to bring ourselves up
> to the Gods, not to bring them down with us.

Thank-you SO much for saying this! I though I might be the one who was miffed at
the idea that the Gods "evolve"!!

Pythia


Subject:	Re: Spelt Cakes
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:31:57 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/15/99 17:08:19 you wrote:
>
>
>1. Obviously, you'll need spelt flower to make spelt cakes!

Thanks for the recipe, but are you using crushed flowers or flour? :)

Is there a copy editor in your house or what?

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Spelt Cakes
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:56 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-16 07:32:01 EDT, Flavia Claudia
(<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>) wr--------:

<< >1. Obviously, you'll need spelt flower to make spelt cakes!
Thanks for the recipe, but are you using crushed flowers or flour? :)
Is there a copy editor in your house or what?
>>

Oh good grief! There IS a copy editor at my house... pity I wasn't there when
I typed those instructions. I did that post from work during a *very* busy
afternoon. Just didn't have time to go over what I'd written to look for
silly mistakes.

If you're confused, just read "flower" as "flour" in those spelt cake
instructions. Oh, and feel free to read "Marcus Cassius Julianus" as "poor
typist".

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:41:43 EDT

In a message dated 4/16/99 12:10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> wr--------:

<< For the sake of clarity: I meant awful in its sense of being filled with
awe at the power and attendant responsibility contained in the life taking
act. >>

Oh...ok. he he.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: No blood? One possible solution.
From:	Shawn Kelley discordianpirate@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 4/16/99 12:10:58 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> wr--------:
>
> << For the sake of clarity: I meant awful in its
> sense of being filled with
> awe at the power and attendant responsibility
> contained in the life taking
> act. >>
>
> Oh...ok. he he.
>
> --Dexippus
>
>
Obviously the issue here is whether or not you favor eating meat at
all...certainly ritual sacrifice is less cruel than the conditions in a
factory farm...not to mention the tremendous waste that happens, with
all the "messy" parts being exported to third world countries for
fertilizer..perhaps one might consider a business out of home-tanned
cow skins? Papa Shango's preserved bull penis aphrodisiac and lethargy
tonic? The possibilities are endless.

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Subject:	Re: No blood? One possible solution.
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:13:06 EDT

In a message dated 4/16/99 10:57:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176066098193209227056175101021089039144149189013098152150172" >discordianpirate@--------</a> writes:

<< perhaps one might consider a business out of home-tanned
cow skins? Papa Shango's preserved bull penis aphrodisiac and lethargy
tonic? The possibilities are endless. >>

Well I can make a wonderful tonice from the left overs of my famed Toddler
Soup!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:47:45 +0100

Salvete

>Please forgive my ignorance Graece. Can you explain the connection between
>King Numa Pompilius and blood sacrifice? I know nothing about it.
King Numa stopped blood sacrifices and enforced offerings as a form of
worship more worth of the Gods. Of course his reforms ended as soon as he
died, and it seems that his writings were destroyed later on. Nevertheless,
King Numa was regarded as having achieved a very intimate relationship with
the Gods, and I think with Iuppiter is special.

>>Moreover I defend the thesis than simulation of blood sacrifices (or
>>gladiatorial combats) are as valid as actual sacrifices. Remember that in
>>Neoplatonist terms, the Gods only receive the 'Idea', the 'Archetype' of
>the
>>sacrifice.
>
>That may be, but I offer the hypothesis that the Gods are like people in
>that they appreciate the Idea but like the Real Thing better.
The Gods like people to rise their condition in existence. Honestly, I think
that to mercilessly slay an harmless animal is not very pleasant to the
Gods.

Moreover, the Collegium Pontificum IS THE HEIR OF THE ANCIENT ROMAN
COLLEGIUM PONTIFICUM. As such it has the authority to RULE HOW WORSHIP IS
PERFORMED. As such, I consider any violation of its laws as a REBELIOUS
HERESY. Blood sacrife was banned in Nova Roma. Any priest who performs it
SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM HIS PRIEST OFFICE as a dangerous HERETIC wo puts in
danger the image and success of Nova Roma and the Religio Romana. Religion
must be in accordance with society. In Religion does not answer to society's
demands and reality, it will soon be replaced by another religion. IF WE
WANT OUR GODS TO BE WORSHIPPED WE MUST REFORM THE RELIGIO ROMANA. THE SAME
REFORM THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SURELY DONE IF THE RELIGIO HAD SURVIVED FOR THE
LAST 1500 years. Don't forget: the most important thing in Religion is
Theology. Worship has always depended on space and time.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae


Subject:	Tomb discovery
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:14:43 EDT

To: Nova Roma. From Q. Fabius Maximus

In a message dated 4/16/99 7:27:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232044098185132048061203208129208071" >jmuccigr@--------</a> writes:

<< The original article is at
<<a href="http://www.repubblica.it/quotidiano/repubblica/19990415/cronaca/27baby.htm" target="_top" >http://www.repubblica.it/quotidiano/repubblica/19990415/cronaca/27baby.htm</a>
l>, entitled "La 'sorella' di Romolo sotto il Campidoglio". The burial was
found in the garden of the Capitoline Musuems. No images in the web
version.

John D. Muccigrosso Classics Department
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232044098185132048061203208129208071" >jmuccigr@--------</a> Drew University
Voice (973) 408-3029 Madison, NJ 07940
FAX (973) 408-3150 <a href="http://www.depts.drew.edu/~classics/" target="_top" >http://www.depts.drew.edu/~classics/</a>

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."

Organization: Copyright 1999 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:52:25 PDT

ROME, April 16 (AFP) - The tomb of a small girl dating back to
the eighth century BC have been found near the present city hall in
Rome, the daily Repubblica reported Friday.
The skull and remains of bones found inside the tomb along with
pottery and small toys were estimated from the teeth to be those of
a child of about four, the paper said.
Believed to be of a wealthy family, she was buried under the
floor of the family home, the paper said, noting she could have been
a contemporary of Romulus, who according to Latin tradition founded
the city in 753 BC.
Valete


Subject:	Gladiators in the movies...sort of in a way..
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:25:14 -0400

Salvete Omnes

For those who have cable and find themselves up all night, here's another B
movie (this one is more action than horror, I guess) with at least an
extremely tenuous connection to things Roman:

2020 Texas Gladiators (1985)
Saturday, April 17 at 12:20 am ET/PT on TNT cable station
*Technically, this is the morning of Sunday, April 18.
Rating: TV-14-V

There is a crucifixion depicted in the movie, and, if you're really bored in
the wee hours of the morning and happen to have an interest in that
venerable Roman practice, you can tune in and judge how accurately the
practice is recreated in this film.

Did anyone watch last week's movie, with the Etruscan living statue?

Disclaimer: I saw neither of these films in their entirety and make no
warrant as to their quality -- watch at your own risk.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" jkbloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:58:17 -0400

Salve,

>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Moreover, the Collegium Pontificum IS THE HEIR OF THE ANCIENT ROMAN
>COLLEGIUM PONTIFICUM. As such it has the authority to RULE HOW WORSHIP IS
>PERFORMED. As such, I consider any violation of its laws as a REBELIOUS
>HERESY. Blood sacrife was banned in Nova Roma. Any priest who performs it
>SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM HIS PRIEST OFFICE as a dangerous HERETIC wo puts in
>danger the image and success of Nova Roma and the Religio Romana. Religion

The Collegium Pontificum banned blood sacrifice in Nova Roma? When did this
happen?

I would also remind our esteemed Propraetor of the following quote:

"We further affirm that rites and worship within the Roman Pagan may be
approached in many ways. In this manner the spiritual needs of all
practicing individuals may be fulfilled. These various approaches may
include group or individual worship, philosophical practice focusing on
prayer and contemplation, purely historical reconstruction of ancient ritual
form, as well as forms of modern rites and worship that adapt ancient
practices and ideals." (From the "Declaration of Roman Paganism"; one of
Nova Roma's founding documents.)

I think the last thing we want to do is to go throwing around words like
"dangerous heretic". If we can't be tolerant of our co-religionists with
whose practices we disagree, how can we possibly be tolerant of followers of
other faiths?

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Senator and �satr� Go�i (<a href="http://www.gersey.org" target="_top" >http://www.gersey.org</a>)


Subject:	Re: No blood? was Re: What's in a Name?
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" jkbloch@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:15:44 -0400

Salve,

>From: Pythia <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200176234108158116015132190036129" >kingan@--------</a>
>I think people should know that Germanicus' above mentioned website has
some
>very very questionable links, such as this one
>
>Allgermanische Heidnische Front, <a href="http://www.heathenfront.org/" target="_top" >http://www.heathenfront.org/</a>
>
>which is a violent antisemitic page, with an ad for a black metal album
which
>says "Kill for Wotan, this is an order from Wotan".

Believe me, it was a tough decision to include that particular link on the
links page. But I could not find anything illegal or directly advocating
violence on their site, and included it in keeping with the all-inclusive
nature of the links page to which Pythia refers (here's the disclaimer):

"The �satr� community is large and diverse, and as such it is inevitable
that a comprehensive listing (such as this aspires to be) will include
entries of questionable and/or objectionable religious, political, or social
content (naturally, since such judgements are subjective in nature, one
person's questionable practice is anothers' orthodoxy, and vice versa).
Nonetheless, it is the firm policy of this list not to discriminate against
anyone, any group, or any point of view short of those advocating violence
or other illegal activities."

(In fact, I added the word "objectionable" specifically after sticking in
the heathenfront.org link.)

So, despite what Pythia is trying to insinuate, I don't advocate anything on
that particular web site. I can't however, justify _not_ including it merely
because it's offensive, especially since the whole point of my Asatru links
page is to be complete. Part of being tolerant is being tolerant even of
those who are intolerant.

Vale,

Germanicus


Subject:	GERS EY GO�OR�
From:	"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:32:42 PDT

Salvete!

I would like to add my own two cents about Germancius' page!

I think this is a wonderful site...very informative!

As Gemanicus says..the Asatru society IS large and diverse..I have a few Asatru friends..and each of them are VERY very different!

Gemanicus has obviously spent a lot of time on this site..maybe people should look at the good points of it..which FAR outweigh the bad ones!!

I would like to congratulate Germanicus on a wonderful achievement!

A I C Nocturnia