Subject:	One or 2 webmasters
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:22:03 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete,
My quaestor Patricia Cassia was indeed within her rights to appoint
Germanicus as her assistant by virtue of the imperium over the site that
she had been granted. The trouble has come with the proposal to make him
webmaster alone. I was agreeable to this idea at first; Pat was burned out
and someone had to take over. However, in the senate at least, there has
been much hesitation about any one person taking on the entire
responsibility of the website, considering what a burden it was for Pat
who is is a professional in web design, and what a burden it was for
Germanicus before that, who ran the site for the first 6 or 7 months of
Nova Roma. Rather than be dependent on one person alone, the decision was
made by the consuls, that if possible, the job should be shared, just like
a magistracy. Germanicus' idea of a webteam is a good one--I think it
should be a team in the truest sense of the word. The job of co-webmaster
has been offered to Marcus Martianus if he feels he is up to the task. I
think he is, frankly.

This is not meant to question the obvious abilities, talents and
contributions of Flavius Vedius Germanicus. It is meant to distribute the
workload to a manageable level so that *everything* does not fall on one
person.


In service to Rome,


Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.

Subject:	London Museum book Store
From:	Asseri@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:51:31 EDT

Salve!
I am passing this site on to the list. It currently has quite a few Titles
of Roman Britian. I thought some of you might find it interesting.
<a href="http://www.molas.org.uk/pubs.html" target="_top" >http://www.molas.org.uk/pubs.html</a>
P.A. Olivia

Subject:	Fw: [novaroma] Re: Web Site Misunderstanding
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:26:53 -0400

Avete

>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>done it in the past. P.Cassia is an elected Quaestor and such has her own
>responsibilites that she must fulfill...

Yes and running the site was part of her assigned duties. Turns out though that it was taking up way too much of her time so she Repeatedly ask for help and now must pass on those duties.

>But of course, I responded off of an e-mail from our Senator, and
>Co-Founder.
>Lucius. Besides, I wasnt being insulting to anyone, why are you
>behaving so to me? I am just voicing my opinion as a citizen.
>
Why am I behaving so to you? Well since you asked, In effect I hold you largely responsible for the state of Senatorial miscommunication. The Senate has not yet recovered from having it's communications spied on by You! We had a nice board but the one we replaced it with has had problems, Plus we had to waste time on what to do about your spying and lying, and finding a new way to post votes and such. Thanks.
>>
>> No one has taken anything from "CO-Founder" Germanicus...
>
>Well, thats correct the Co-Founder isn't a magistracy, <SNIP>

Then let's drop this 'co-founder' stuff. Marcus Cassius is also a 'co-founder' but we don't see him referred to or referring to himself in this way. The founders were the Romans, so we all are doing our part to resurrect Roma as nova romani. Some people have been doing it for years as reenactors and others have had great roman related websites too and others have been worshipping the Gods in solitary for years and now have found a community.
>
>> The Consules (Decius Iunius and I ) feel that we would best be served
>>by having two , so we don't have to go months
>>without the site being updated.
>
>Thats understandable, Germanicus only cited you as a point of
>reference. My question then is will the Web Moderator be considered a
Magistrate?

No, unless they hold an elected position then they will be a Magistrate anyway so, "In that way we dont create more beaucracy than is absolutely necessary."
>
>But I do have a Question?

I don't know, you do?

>The Website has been run by one person up till now. Why the change by you
and >your esteemed colleague?

Didn't you listen? "The Consules (Decius Iunius and I ) feel that we would
best be served by having two 'websitarius', so we don't have to go months
without the site being updated."

> Wouldnt
>it be prudent, and wise to wait to see if the honored co-founder can
>handle the job alone, before sticking him with a helper. Since he has
>done an admirable job in the past. In that way we dont create more
>beaucracy than is absolutely necessary.
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla
>
Why wait to find out, we just went through that drill a couple of times remember when Germanicus resigned? remember when Patricia Cassia's computer was out and the site was not updated for a couple of months? We have made a decision that will hopefully avoid this situation in the futrue.

Valete, Lucius Equitius

Subject:	Re: One or 2 webmasters
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:42:31 -0400

How many high-level NR officials does it take to run the website?

Wait, stop, I think I've heard this one already...



Rusticus

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:50:24 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/22/99 10:26:53 Cincinnatus wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Well, thats correct the Co-Founder isn't a magistracy, <SNIP>
>
>Then let's drop this 'co-founder' stuff. Marcus Cassius is also a
>'co-founder' but we don't see him referred to or referring to himself in
>this way. The founders were the Romans, so we all are doing our part to
>resurrect Roma as nova romani. Some people have been doing it for years
>as reenactors and others have had great roman related websites too and
>others have been worshipping the Gods in solitary for years and now have
>found a community.
>>

I agree with Cincinnatus on this point.

When you start a group, then open it up to membership and allow that membership to elect its own
government, you have to face the fact that you're giving up the control that you formerly had over the
group, which is very tough. In essence, you're turning your "baby" out into the world. This is what
happened to Cassius and Germanicus, and it's understandable that they sometimes find it almost
impossible NOT to step in when things get difficult. Who wouldn't? They put a lot of work into this. But if
they wanted to remain in absolute control, they shouldn't have established this particular form of
government. And I don't believe that was their intention at all.

Everyone has put a lot of work and passion into NR. Especially the people who have volunteered, and the
people who ran for office or accepted appointments. The plain fact is that Cincinnatus and Palladius are
ELECTED Consuls. They now have the responsibility for running Nova Roma and making final decisions,
and should have an overview of everything that's going on. Cassius and Germanicus are both EX-Consuls
and current Senators, so it isn't like they don't have a voice. But neither one of them is the court of final
appeal and should not be so. I've noticed a definite tendency for citizens to ignore the Consuls and go
straight to Cassius and Germanicus when they disagree with a Consular or Senatorial decision. Or to
bypass the Consuls completely. Then the citizens come back to the Consuls with "Well, the co-founders
said that...."
When either Cassius or Germanicus allows this to happen, it doesn't strengthen the basis of NR
government, it weakens it. When Cassius and Germanicus give thier opinions, many citizens regard them
not as opinions from knowledgeable fellow citizens, but as pronouncements from on high: it places an
impossible burden on them, and does no good for the form of government we've chosen to follow. Cassius
and Germanicus are probably truly unaware that this is happening.

I've also noticed a reluctance on the part of several magistrates to act without first knowing the wishes of
either Cassius or Germanicus. This is not good.

It isn't hard to read between the lines and sense Cincinnatus' long-standing frustration with this situation.
Okay, Cincinnatus is not the most diplomatic guy -- he's blunt and plain-spoken. This doesn't mean that he
doesn't have the best interests of NR at heart, just as much as Cassius and Germanicus do.

This is going to sound sarcastic, but I'm serious: if we do NOT want the Republican form of government,
and it isn't working, then let's abandon it and go to either a Dictatorship or a Triumvirate. Nothing says
we're not free to elect this option if we're more comfortable with it. If we DO want to keep the
government structure as it is, can we at least give the elected officials the power that we voted them and
show more confidence in them?

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: Web Site Misunderstanding
From:	Thomas Gangale TGangale@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:10:21 -0700

Salvete, omnes.

I believe everyone's intentions are honorable, but the status of the web
site in relation to the State was ambiguous to begin with, thus also the
procedure for installing a new webmaster. Communication between interested
parties has been lacking at times, and at others garbled and inaccurate. I
regret that I have contributed to the confusion somewhat, but I must also
say that I have been pretty damned confused in my own right. Let us allow
the Consules, with the advice of the Senate, time to arrive at well
considered determination regarding the exact place of the web site in the
Republic and the procedures for filling positions, so that we don't have a
recurrence of this mess in the future. Let us refrain from intestine
discord, which can only be detrimental to the Republic.

As for Cincinnatus being blunt and plain-spoken:

I am no orator, as Brutus is;
But, as you know me all, a plain blunt man,
That love my friend; and that they know full well
That gave me public leave to speak of him:
For I have neither wit, nor words, nor worth,
Action, nor utterance, nor the power of speech,
To stir men's blood: I only speak right on;

-- "Julius Caesar", Act III, Scene II

Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:29:57 +0100

Salvete Claudia et omnes

I cannot swallow these useless discussions anymore.

We must not forget that the government of Nova Roma is still not stable for
other reasons, which allows for some violations of the Constitution in the
form of illegal appointments without consulting the peole:
- WHERE IS THE COMITIA POPULI?
- WHEN WILL THE COMITIA POPULI BE IMPLEMENTED?
- WHY WAS OUR MOST HONOURABLE TRIBUNUS PLEBIS TULLIUS CALLIDUS' PROPOSAL
FROZEN?

THE PEOPLE WANTS THE COMITIA! WITHOUT IT, THERE IS NO RESPUBLICA. THERE IS
OLIGARCHY!

As citizen and magistrate of Nova Roma, I demand the Comitia Populi to be
immediately implemented in the form proposed by the Tribunus Plebis. Any
changes to this proposal will later be voted by the same COMITIA.
ONLY THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE CAN STABILIZE NOVA ROMA.
AVE RES PUBLICA! AVE ROMA!

Valete omnes,

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae

Subject:	Re: One or 2 webmasters
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:34:49 EDT

In a message da--------4/22/99 11:45:30 AM Eas-------- Dayligh--------me, &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------br> writes:

<< How many high-level NR officials does it take to run the website?

Wait, stop, I think I've heard this one already... >>

ROFLMAO!

Too funny.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:37:14 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/99 11:50:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wr--------:

<< This is going to sound sarcastic, but I'm serious: if we do NOT want the
Republican form of government,
and it isn't working, then let's abandon it and go to either a Dictatorship
or a Triumvirate. Nothing says
we're not free to elect this option if we're more comfortable with it. If
we DO want to keep the
government structure as it is, can we at least give the elected officials
the power that we voted them and
show more confidence in them? >>

I am all for this! You can't have it both ways. Either work with the
government as it is supposed to be set up or elect someone Dictator. Though
the later may prove to push citizens out of NR.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Roman Days
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:38:09 EDT

In a m--------g--------t--------/18/99 4:01:41 PM East--------Daylight Tim--------lt;a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
writes:

<< ROMAN DAYS
June 11-13
Glenn Dale, Maryland >>


Ok all...unfortunately I will not be able to attend Roman Days this year.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Magistrates Decisions
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:39:55 -0400 (EDT)

Well said Flavia Claudia!!! Let me add to your post this small item.
The magistrates have been elected to serve the people in many ways, so
that every decision does not have to be polled throughout the nation.
In order to facilitate this, there is a tremendous amount of information
to be gathered, and discussions rendered, and realizations revealed
that no-one but the Magistrate involved knows about, (some may well be
personal and private) and it is the Magistrate, who must absorb that
data, work it down to a final set of decisions, balance what is best for
NR, and within his / her imperium make that decision. That is not an
easy thing to do, it is infinately harder when you have citizens who
only have their opinions and little else questioning your every move
from a refuge, that "if they were in charge it would be done better."
That is simply unfair and unsporting, and since the individual causing
the problem has not been elected or appointed to an office, the
reasoning might be that there is a cause for that. If the person is in
office and cannot work within the government to forward NR without
public uproar, then the question would be why??

You have elected two good men as Consuls. I and my fellow Quaestors
have worked closely enough with them in the last few months to ascertain
that for both ourselves and for those we represent. We have reported
this to our constituents. Why will you not believe it, and if you don't
believe it why do you not call upon us to answer your questions. It is
my understanding that this is the way things are set up. If I am in the
wrong please tell me.!!

I ask you please, to allow the Consul's to do their jobs as they have
the right stuff to do them, and if you feel that you must have further
information, then get it from those who serve you and at least look at
all sides of it before you criticize. Several people have asked me why
more people did not run for office in the last election. I think it
should now be quite clear why that was so. In addition to the
consistant work load required, one must put up with second guessing and
constant explanation to those for whom one has supposedly been acting
and in some cases field downright insults to the Magistrate's integrity
and honesty. I certainly do not need that kind of treatment from those
whom I call friends and constituents, nor do I need a half-baked
criticism to my work for purely political reasons, nor does anyone
else..

I most respectfully ask that you give serious thought to a hot-headed
message and what it will do to our nation. At the very least it will rp
the fabric of what we are all trying to build, and at worst, as in the
past has cost valuable citizens and only the God's know how many
unfulfilled opportunities. Sleep on it for a night if you must. I
quote a famous saying:

"i was never sorry I kept my mouth shut, but was often aggreived that I
had opened it."

I thank you for your kind attention to this post, and I greatly regret
my sureity of the necessity in sending it.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:52:26 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/22/99 17:29:57 you wrote:
>
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Claudia et omnes
>
>I cannot swallow these useless discussions anymore.
>
>We must not forget that the government of Nova Roma is still not stable for
>other reasons, which allows for some violations of the Constitution in the
>form of illegal appointments without consulting the peole:
>- WHERE IS THE COMITIA POPULI?
>- WHEN WILL THE COMITIA POPULI BE IMPLEMENTED?
>- WHY WAS OUR MOST HONOURABLE TRIBUNUS PLEBIS TULLIUS CALLIDUS' PROPOSAL
>FROZEN?

Probably because every time we try to do something concrete, we get sidetracked with all these stupid
issues that have to do with who's getting their delicate little feelings hurt, or who just likes to make
showy speeches. Contrary to belief, there are only so many hours in the day and NR is not the main
concern of people who are trying to make a living, run a home, raise a family, all that irrelevant stuff.

Jeezus, is anybody around here having any FUN with NR anymore?
(Except Rusticus, of course!)


-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:09:14 +0100

Salvete omnes

>Contrary to belief, there are only so many hours in the day and NR is not
the >main concern of people who are trying to make a living, run a home,
raise a >family, all that irrelevant stuff.
Well, one must count very well how many hours a day has before being a
candidate to NR magistracy and accepting more than one office.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Res publica aut imperium was Re: co-founders
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:04:59 -0400

Salvete Claudia et alii



>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>

>government, it weakens it. When Cassius and Germanicus give thier
opinions, many citizens regard them
>not as opinions from knowledgeable fellow citizens, but as pronouncements
from on high: it places an
>impossible burden on them, and does no good for the form of government
we've chosen to follow. Cassius
>and Germanicus are probably truly unaware that this is happening.

Marcus Cassius Iulianus is also Pontifex Maximus, and that is why I consider
his opinions on religion to be authoritative for Nova Roma's public exercise
of Religio Romana.
>
>I've also noticed a reluctance on the part of several magistrates to act
without first knowing the wishes of
>either Cassius or Germanicus. This is not good.

Uh-oh. No, that isn't good. I may be off the wall in thinking this way,
but, when I joined, I read all the declarations, and the constitution, very
carefully before making up my mind. I did not interview Iulianus or
Germanicus and make my decision on the basis of my impressions of them (not
that they would have let me interview them anyway :)). I do, however, feel
admiration and gratitude toward them for creating Nova Roma. Rursus ago
vobis gratias pro nostra re publica Iuliane et Germanice
>

>
>This is going to sound sarcastic, but I'm serious: if we do NOT want the
Republican form of government,
>and it isn't working, then let's abandon it and go to either a Dictatorship
or a Triumvirate.

But, Nova Roma grows on a voluntary basis; it does not, with thus far one
exception (right?), receive new citizens by birth. The only factors binding
us together as a group stem from our shared interests and spiritual sense of
community. Given the voluntary nature of Nova Roma, the only Roman model of
governmental form suitable is the Republican one.

Unless one believes that a significant number of citizens, and potential
citizens, are extreme masochists who desire to throw themselves at the feet
of one or three supreme beings and cater to their whims. In that case, a
Monarchy or, probably better the Imperium of Diocletianus, would be more
suitable.

But who will bother to be a "citizen" of such a thing? I don't think that I
could stand it for more than a month, even if I got to be the Basileus
Autocrator.

Nothing says
>we're not free to elect this option if we're more comfortable with it. If
we DO want to keep the
>government structure as it is, can we at least give the elected officials
the power that we voted them and
>show more confidence in them?

It's sometimes hard to state one's opinion, or even state a fact, without
being perceived as being critical. And that's not going to stop me, or a
lot of other people, from stating opinions. For what it's worth, I have
confidence in you. And I respect the service of magistrates and senators,
even if I don't always agree with everything done.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Comitia and Re: co-founders
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:28:34 -0400

warning: serious difference of opinion presented below -- if you have low
tolerance for blunt exchange of opinion, delete this message immediately

Salvete Antoni Grylle et alii



>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>
>I cannot swallow these useless discussions anymore.

?

>
>We must not forget that the government of Nova Roma is still not stable for
>other reasons, which allows for some violations of the Constitution in the
>form of illegal appointments without consulting the peole:
>- WHERE IS THE COMITIA POPULI?
>- WHEN WILL THE COMITIA POPULI BE IMPLEMENTED?
>- WHY WAS OUR MOST HONOURABLE TRIBUNUS PLEBIS TULLIUS CALLIDUS' PROPOSAL
>FROZEN?

Well, most of the people in the forum are neither senators nor magistrates
(myself for instance). What do you want us to do, exactly? If there is no
immediate, clear answer to that question, there probably is no need to shout
at us.

As for the freeze in the Tribune's proposal, only the Senate can even
determine whether it's a valid question. As far as discussion of that
proposal goes, I wouldn't mind re-opening it. And, thanks for giving me an
excuse to do just that. (more on that later)
>
>THE PEOPLE WANTS THE COMITIA! WITHOUT IT, THERE IS NO RESPUBLICA. THERE IS
>OLIGARCHY!

I certainly do want the comitia, and I know that I'm not the only one. Nova
Roma needs the comitia in order to pass laws and operate as a republic;
without them, we also would be unable to react properly to further
violations of the constitution, as in Romanus' case. But we cannot snap our
fingers and make them appear, as you well understand Antoni Grylle.
>
>As citizen and magistrate of Nova Roma, I demand the Comitia Populi to be
>immediately implemented in the form proposed by the Tribunus Plebis.

As a citizen of Nova Roma, I ask that the Tribunus Plebis, and everyone else
among the senates and magistrates for that matter, take another look at his
proposal and article IV of the constitution. If, after that, you think that
the proposal's realization would serve to implement said article and not
replace it, by all means may the Senate approve it.

Why do I say 'replace it'? Because Callidus' proposal alters the number of
comitia, their functions and which magistrates convene them. Rather than
establishing a basis for how the comitia are to be formed, i.e., how
citizens would be selected, or assigned to comitia (what I was expecting to
see), the proposal essentially re-writes article IV of the constitution.

Any
>changes to this proposal will later be voted by the same COMITIA.
>ONLY THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE CAN STABILIZE NOVA ROMA.
>AVE RES PUBLICA! AVE ROMA!


Well, I think that it makes little sense to complain of violations of the
constitution, while in the same post calling for the replacement of an
entire article thereof.

>Valete omnes,
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Aedilis Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae


Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:27 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 12:52:35 EDT, you write:

> Jeezus, is anybody around here having any FUN with NR anymore?
> (Except Rusticus, of course!)
>
>
> -- Flavia Claudia

OHHH OHHHH ;;;;jumping around waving hand:::::::: I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crys (enjoying some of the best reading in a LONG time)

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:56:45 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/99 1:50:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; writes:

<< OHHH OHHHH ;;;;jumping around waving hand:::::::: I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>


I am too! But hey...I can have fun in a paper bag if need be!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Fw: [novaroma] Re: Web Site Misunderstanding
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:07:07 -0500 (CDT)

My question is really why all the communications on having more
than one webmaster???? Though it has been stated that the reason is not
to go for months without the websight being updated, Germanicus ran our
websight extremely well and updated bits and pieces of it on a weekly
basis although I suspect he was getting burned out with this burden too.
Now he asks to take control of this project once again and is asking for
help from the general citizen body.

What really makes anyone think that the websight wouldn't be
handled well now with him solely in charge of it? It may in fact hold
things up even more by creating a final decision waiting period when
these two people at any given time disagree on even the slightest
change. Let's please have our consuls strongly reconsider this matter
into letting Germanicus do this and designating authority where it would
be most helpful.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Thomas Gangale TGangale@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:07:16 -0700

Salve, Flavia Claudia, Esteemed Senatrix.

Are you kidding? Gaia's having a roar over this. She says it reminds here
of the "I, Claudius" series... and she has advised me not to eat the figs.

Vale,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule

-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> [ma--------:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:52 AM
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Subject: [novaroma] Re: co-founders


From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>

On 04/22/99 17:29:57 you wrote:
>
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Claudia et omnes
>
>I cannot swallow these useless discussions anymore.
>
>We must not forget that the government of Nova Roma is still not stable for
>other reasons, which allows for some violations of the Constitution in the
>form of illegal appointments without consulting the peole:
>- WHERE IS THE COMITIA POPULI?
>- WHEN WILL THE COMITIA POPULI BE IMPLEMENTED?
>- WHY WAS OUR MOST HONOURABLE TRIBUNUS PLEBIS TULLIUS CALLIDUS' PROPOSAL
>FROZEN?

Probably because every time we try to do something concrete, we get
sidetracked with all these stupid
issues that have to do with who's getting their delicate little feelings
hurt, or who just likes to make
showy speeches. Contrary to belief, there are only so many hours in the day
and NR is not the main
concern of people who are trying to make a living, run a home, raise a
family, all that irrelevant stuff.

Jeezus, is anybody around here having any FUN with NR anymore?
(Except Rusticus, of course!)


-- Flavia Claudia




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Subject:	Having Fun?
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:34:15 -0500 (CDT)

I am often disgusted by some of the conversations in Nova Roma
in the last few months. I feel that often times our people here go into
personal attacks against each other often wrongly either in personal or
private e-mails which have bred varying amounts of personal resentment.
In the context of running a viable organization I think a lot of this
has been totally unacceptable. Ideally it should be we the people of
Nova Roma together to have a better Nova Roma not a mass of people more
interested in getting the last word or a I'm right and your wrong public
flogging.

I am going to do my small part now and would like to ask anyone
within the Great Lakes Provincia if they have any projects, ideas or
issues that they would like to discuss and work on in the near future.
Anything from advertisement locally to making a presence of Nova Roma at
a local pagan event to a research project to a trip to a museum or
perhaps something more in line with a special interest project. Let's
think about doing something that will make Nova Roma more of a community
in our province and start by opening up a serious dialogue.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus
(Praetor of the Great Lakes Provincia)

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:11:23 -0500 (CDT)

On 04/22/99 11:07:16 you wrote:
>
>Salve, Flavia Claudia, Esteemed Senatrix.
>
>Are you kidding? Gaia's having a roar over this. She says it reminds here
>of the "I, Claudius" series... and she has advised me not to eat the figs.
>
>Vale,
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>Aedilis Curule

Or the mushrooms, either! Remember what Nero said after Claudius was dead & deified: "Mushrooms
really ARE the food of the gods!"

-- Flavia Claudia
(Claudian family motto: "Here Uncle, taste this!")

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:18:29 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 15:11:31 EDT, you write:

> -- Flavia Claudia
> (Claudian family motto: "Here Uncle, taste this!")

You'll not get many dinner invites with THAT motto!!

Crys -- suddenly not so very hungry!!

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Thomas Gangale TGangale@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:23:49 -0700

And for all you "X Files" fans, Herod Agrippa said it first, "Trust no one!"

-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> [ma--------:<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:11 PM
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Subject: [novaroma] Re: co-founders


From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>

On 04/22/99 11:07:16 you wrote:
>
>Salve, Flavia Claudia, Esteemed Senatrix.
>
>Are you kidding? Gaia's having a roar over this. She says it reminds her
>of the "I, Claudius" series... and she has advised me not to eat the figs.
>
>Vale,
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>Aedilis Curule

Or the mushrooms, either! Remember what Nero said after Claudius was dead &
deified: "Mushrooms
really ARE the food of the gods!"

-- Flavia Claudia
(Claudian family motto: "Here Uncle, taste this!")



------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Comitia Populi
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:39:34 +0100

Salvete Merulle et al

Ok, if the proposal of the Tribunus is against the Constitution, lets
discuss it again, as Merullus says. Just don't discuss useless things when
there are such importants things to discuss like the Comitia.
Maybe we should start by a complete report about the status of the Senate
discussion on the Comitia.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et Propraetor Provinciae Lusitaniae

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:17:28 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/99 2:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:

<< I am often disgusted by some of the conversations in Nova Roma
in the last few months. I feel that often times our people here go into
personal attacks against each other often wrongly either in personal or
private e-mails which have bred varying amounts of personal resentment.
In the context of running a viable organization I think a lot of this
has been totally unacceptable. Ideally it should be we the people of
Nova Roma together to have a better Nova Roma not a mass of people more
interested in getting the last word or a I'm right and your wrong public
flogging. >>

And of this I ask...what could possibly be more Roman? Perhaps it comes with
the package? But we have had almost as many (if not more) civil wars here
than Rome ever did during her 1200 year reign.

Perhaps if we focused more on the Religio and not the politics (hint hint) we
would be better off!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Quae leges was Re: Web Site Misunderstanding: Germanicus' vision
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:43:43 -0400

Salvete, omnes!

In fact, if we tried complying with the laws (the Constitution, as Merullus
says) we might find that it isn't so hard after all.

At the moment NR's Consuls and Senate seem to me to be like a kid who would
like to learn to swim (to live by law) but is frightened of the water
(alleged inconveniences).

Valete,

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:47:56 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 15:39:12 EDT, you write:

> Perhaps if we focused more on the Religio and not the politics (hint hint)
> we
> would be better off!
>
> --Dexippus

YEA!!! RIGHT!!! Dex, I thought you were OFF the crack!!!

Guess who?

Subject:	Nova Roma bureaucracy and Citizens' questions
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:49:00 -0400

Salvete Omnes!

Patricia Cassia wrote ....

>Rather than become critical at once, I encourage some of our more
>hotheaded Citizens to ask polite questions and gather the information
>they need to make informed judgments about our leaders' actions.

I have no problem in principle about this, but ... it sounds so like Sir
Humphrey Appleby ("Yes, Minister"). I guess that prompt public
announcements by Magistrates which explain (a) the reasons for decisions
and (b) their Constitutional basis, would pre-empt carping comments.

Valete,

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:56:55 -0400

Flavia Claudia wrote:

>If we DO want to keep the government structure as it is, can we at least
give the elected officials
>the power that we voted them and show more confidence in them?

Much of what Flavia Claudia wrote is sound common sense. But two issues:

1) Republicanism is not, I think, mainly about trusting government, but
about mistrusting it. Hence "checks and balances" in a Constitution.

2) In a government of the roman republican form the Senate has also to
trust the populus. For us this means constituting the Comitia NOW on the
basis of the perfectly clear mandate laid out in the Constitution. It will
then be possible for the Senate or magistrates to put before the populus
such reforms to the Comitia as they think are desirable.

Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:58:56 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 11:50:51 EDT, Flavia Claudia Iuliana,
(<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>) wr--------:

Flavia Claudia:
> Everyone has put a lot of work and passion into NR. Especially the people
who have volunteered, and the
people who ran for office or accepted appointments. The plain fact is that
Cincinnatus and Palladius are
ELECTED Consuls. They now have the responsibility for running Nova Roma and
making final decisions, and should have an overview of everything that's
going on.

Cassius:
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus and Decius Iunius Palladius are indeed the
elected Consuls. They and the Senate of Nova Roma are responsible for making
the final decisions of affairs of state. As far as I am aware they have both
done an excellent job of making sure that all voices are heard within Nova
Roma, and that all necessary input is gathered before decisions are made.

Flavia Claudia:
>Cassius and Germanicus are both EX-Consuls
and current Senators, so it isn't like they don't have a voice. But neither
one of them is the court of final
appeal and should not be so. I've noticed a definite tendency for citizens
to ignore the Consuls and go
straight to Cassius and Germanicus when they disagree with a Consular or
Senatorial decision.

Cassius:
I must honestly say that I haven't ppersonally noticed such a tendency. Both
Germanicus and myself *are* Senators, and have not been approached (or acted)
beyond those bounds. I can't recall a single incident where someone expected
either Germanicus or I to overturn a Consular decision... and if they did I'd
laugh at them!

Flavia Claudia:
>Or to
bypass the Consuls completely. Then the citizens come back to the Consuls
with "Well, the co-founders
said that...."

Cassius:
There has been ONE incident where a Citizen wrote to "the founders" first for
an *opinion* on the original intent of a passage in the Constitution, before
going to the Consuls or the Senate directly with an issue. The Senate heard
that we'd been contacted first, and there was quite an uprorar over it! As
it happened it was a tempest in a teacup... Germanicus never answered the
person's Email, and I was so busy at the time I never even SAW the Email in
question. I learned of it only in the Senate, where foks were frantic with
worry that due process was suddenly going to be abandoned wholesale. It
wasn't.

Flavia Claudia:
>When either Cassius or Germanicus allows this to happen, it doesn't
strengthen the basis of NR government, it weakens it.

Cassius:
As a Citizen, Senator, and Censor of Nova Roma, I have many opinions and
things to say in the NR government. Germanicus is a Senator and also has
opinions and things to contribute. If someone writes to either of us about an
issue, we reply as Senators or whatever. Hopefully no one will mistake such
day-to-day business for anything more than it is.

Flavia Claudia:
>When Cassius and Germanicus give thier opinions, many citizens regard them
not as opinions from knowledgeable fellow citizens, but as pronouncements
from on high: it places an
impossible burden on them, and does no good for the form of government we've
chosen to follow. Cassius
and Germanicus are probably truly unaware that this is happening.

Cassius:
I'm not unaware of this idea, Consul Cincinnatus has also expressed it.
Personally I think its absurd. Also, the only solution would seem to be for
both Germanicus or myself to never speak at ALL, either in the Senate, or on
the Email list, by personal letters, or in the live chat.

Flavia Claudia:
> I've also noticed a reluctance on the part of several magistrates to act
without first knowing the wishes of either Cassius or Germanicus. This is not
good.

Cassius:
LOL! And here I've been depressed for the last couple of weeks that nobody
listens to my input as a Senator, concerning such issues the latest tax
proposal, and the current problems with the website! It's all in the personal
perspective I guess.

Flavia Claudia:
> It isn't hard to read between the lines and sense Cincinnatus'
long-standing frustration with this situation.
Okay, Cincinnatus is not the most diplomatic guy -- he's blunt and
plain-spoken. This doesn't mean that he
doesn't have the best interests of NR at heart, just as much as Cassius and
Germanicus do.

Cassius:
Of course Lucius Equetius has the best interests of Nova Roma at heart!!
Lucius has devoted a great deal of time and effort during his Consulship, and
hopefully ALL the Citizens of Nova Roma appreciate this. I certainly do... my
NR attendance has actually been spotty since last October. There have been
many weeks I haven't been able to participate at all! Patricia Cassia and I
moved into a new home, I had weeks of computer difficulties, and then was
down with the flu. It's been great to know that Nova Roma is being guided by
competant Consuls and a working Senate. I enjoy serving Nova Roma and
participating in it - but it's damned good to know that my presence isn't
needed for our Micronation to continue to function.

As far as I can tell the latest series of list postings have had little to do
with Germanicus and myself being founders of Nova Roma... or with people
coming to us instead of duly elected magistrates. They've mostly involved
miscommunication and letters sent in anger, with Citizens not stopping to
think how others will take their words.

Flavia Claudia:
>This is going to sound sarcastic, but I'm serious: if we do NOT want the
Republican form of government, and it isn't working, then let's abandon it
and go to either a Dictatorship or a Triumvirate. Nothing says we're not free
to elect this option if we're more comfortable with it. If we DO want to
keep the government structure as it is, can we at least give the elected
officials the power that we voted them and
show more confidence in them?

Cassius:
If I had to make a personal guess, I'd say that any difficulties Nova Roma
has had really don't concern the FORM of our goverment at all. The biggest
problem we've faced is trying to do a massive amount of communication through
the internet. We're all trying to interact with people we've mostly never
met, can't see, and can't hear. It's REAL easy for people's attitudes and
motives to be misconstrued. And, through such a faceless medium it's hard for
people to calm down once tempers flare. All "I'm sorrys" seem rather
meaningless in type.

Just like most situations, this particular one can solved if people just calm
down and remain civil with one another. Some of the postings in the last few
days seem to have been made in anger or under stress. Just the simple rule of
waiting a few hours after writing an Email before actually sending it off to
individuals or the list can be helpful. The important thing is that we
realize that everything isn't going to hell in a handbasket every time
somebody makes a dissatisfied post to the list, or speaks without thinking.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Fw: [novaroma] Re: Web Site Misunderstanding
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:17:54 -0400

L. Equitius wrote, in response to L. Cornelius Sulla:

>Why am I behaving so to you? Well since you asked, In effect I hold you
largely responsible for the state of Senatorial >miscommunication. The
Senate has not yet recovered from having it's communications spied on by
You! We had a nice board >but the one we replaced it with has had problems,
Plus we had to waste time on what to do about your spying and lying, and
>finding a new way to post votes and such. Thanks.

Since Sulla apologised to the Senate on this matter, I was going to raise
it with the Senators rather than on this list. Since L. Equitius has
reopened it, however:

According to the Constitution, arts III, 2.1, 3.1, 4.1 and 6.1, the
Consuls, Provincial Governors, Urban Praetors and Curule Aediles "hold
imperium". What the hell does this mean? According to W. Kunkel, An
Introduction to Roman Legal and Constitutional History, 15, it comprises:

military command; coercitio (administrative authority); iuris dictio
(jurisdiction -the power to declare the law in individual law-cases);
the jus agendi cum populo (the power to summon & propose bills in the
Comitia); ....

....AND the jus agendi cum senatu - the power to summon and consult the
Senate.

The view that the Praetors don't have the right to be seated with voice in
the Senate is therefore contrary to the terms of the Constitution in
granting us imperium.

It is also extremely silly. I think it is Truman (or possibly LBJ) who is
quoted as saying of someone that he'd rather have him inside the tent
pissing out than outside the tent pissing in, and I guess this must be true
of Sulla (since L. Equitius is clearly pretty pissed off with Sulla outside
the tent pissing in....).

In addition, the magistrates, like the officers of any church or society,
need as far as possible to work together for the best effect. How is this
to be done if some of them keep secrets from others for no obvious reason?

Valete,

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
Praetor Urbanus

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:31:43 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/99 3:49:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; writes:

<< YEA!!! RIGHT!!! Dex, I thought you were OFF the crack!!!
>>

I tried...real hard! Really I did!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:12:49 -0700

Salve.....Shouldn't this be in the RomanBackAlley? ;)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 4/22/99 3:49:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >M--------Rom--------...</--------; writes:
>
> << YEA!!! RIGHT!!! Dex, I thought you were OFF the crack!!!
> >>
>
> I tried...real hard! Really I did!
>
> --Dexippus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend.
> <a href="http://www.ONElist.com" target="_top" >http://www.ONElist.com</a>
> ONElist: The leading provider of free e-mail list services!

Subject:	Re: Comitia (Was: Re: co-founders)
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:35:54 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 12:20:54 EDT, "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

Graecus:
We must not forget that the government of Nova Roma is still not stable for
other reasons, which allows for some violations of the Constitution in the
form of illegal appointments without consulting the peole:

Cassius:
Nova Roma is far less "unstable" than it is "not complete". Ancient Rome is a
BIG thing to try and reconstruct, and just like the old saying, it can't be
built in a day.

Graecus:
>- WHERE IS THE COMITIA POPULI?

Cassius:
The Comitia Populi doesn't yet officially exist. Why? Because we haven't yet
been able to work out a decent system for establishing them. Two different
proposals for forming the Comitia are now before the Senate. Neither one is
perfect. It will probably take some time to work out a system that is
manageable in the long term.

Graecus:
- WHEN WILL THE COMITIA POPULI BE IMPLEMENTED?

As a Senator, I can officially say that I have no idea when the Comitia
Populi will be implemented. Definitely before the next elections, when
they'll become even more crucial than they are already. Probably not in the
next week, or even the next two or three weeks. Discussion on the Comitia has
become so complex that it's damned near impossible to figure out right now.

Graecus:
- WHY WAS OUR MOST HONOURABLE TRIBUNUS PLEBIS TULLIUS CALLIDUS' PROPOSAL
FROZEN?

Cassius:
Frozen? Tullius Callidius' proposal is currently before the Senate right now,
as is a proposal from Flavius Vedius Germanicus. Both of them, and other
ideas, are being worked on. Were you honestly expecting that Callisius'
proposal would just be summarily voted in the very day it was given over to
the Senate, with no debate or consideration? Quite frankly, I have some
concerns with Callidius' proposal, and as a Senator I will not vote YES to it
until I've had a chance to ask questions and see if some things can be
modified. So far there hasn't been much opportunity to do that since there
are so many other issues going on at the same time.

Graecus:
> THE PEOPLE WANTS THE COMITIA! WITHOUT IT, THERE IS NO RESPUBLICA. THERE IS
OLIGARCHY!

Cassius:
Thank you Graecus, that is very helpful.

Graecus:
> As citizen and magistrate of Nova Roma, I demand the Comitia Populi to be
immediately implemented in the form proposed by the Tribunus Plebis. Any
changes to this proposal will later be voted by the same COMITIA.
ONLY THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE CAN STABILIZE NOVA ROMA.

Cassius:
As a citizen and magistrate of Nova Roma, I suggest that the Comitia Populi
be debated, and the proposal submitted by one of the Tribunii Plebii be
considered carefully. It's very easy to rush into things without thinking,
and quite another to undo them once they've been voted into law and problems
start to show up. Only common sense and civility can stabilize Nova Roma.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator

Subject:	Re: Fw: [novaroma] Re: Web Site Misunderstanding
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:38:38 EDT

In a message dated 99-04-22 16:19:05 EDT, you write:

> (since L. Equitius is clearly pretty pissed off with Sulla outside
> the tent pissing in....).

Figgers. I'm movin and my mailbox is about to be assulted with deadly
keyboards. I'm going to buy a 2 liter of Mountain Dew, 2 pounds of pretzels
and have my glasses steam cleaned.

This oughta be better than the Virginia Slims tourney!!

THOSE WHO ARE ABOUT TO DIE SALUTE YOU!!!!

Crys (and they said WOMEN were catty!!!!!!!! -- LET THE FUR FLY!!!!!)

Subject:	Back Alley appropriateness
From:	MaNPaRoman@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:38:39 EDT

Ya'll need to take it to the BACK!!!!!!!!

Crys (so glad there is a venue for this)

Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:35:45 PDT

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>Jeezus, is anybody around here having any FUN with NR anymore?
>(Except Rusticus, of course!)
Salve

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone else except maybe our honored
Augur is. I know I'm not. I'm sick to death of the bickering.

Vale

Lucina Iunia Cypria

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com" target="_top" >http://www.msn.com</a>

Subject:	fun
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:23:30 -0500 (CDT)

Okay, the score at the half seems to be...

People Having Fun --- 3 (4 if you count the gay crackhead)
People Not Having Fun -- unknown, too depressed to reply
Senators Seriously Thinking of Falling on Swords -- 1
People Pissing On Tents -- Allegedly 1, but maybe more if Venator passes around the ale

Stay tuned to this channel for complete, up to the minute scores!

-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:	Clarify
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:29:14 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/99 5:00:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> writes:



<< Rather than become critical at once, I encourage some of our more
hotheaded Citizens to ask polite questions and gather the information
they need to make informed judgments about our leaders' actions. A post
which reflects querulous assumptions that everyone running Nova Roma is
wrong will only irritate people who are already volunteering their
precious free time to run this organization for everyone's benefit. >>

If it was me who started this whole thing, sorry! I honestly didn't write the
post while I was angry, & didn't think it would be interpreted as such.
You're right, I really should have gotten a little more info first, but I got
all the info I needed just by posting that letter. I really wasn't saying
that everyone running NR was wrong, and their decisions are still law even if
I don't agree. I do believe that our Consuls, Senate, and other magistrates
know what is best for NR, and will strive to improve it. I am a new citizen
and therefore know little else about NR aside from what is posted on the
website. While trying to get involved I am sure to make presumptions, which
hopefully will spur a reply from someone who wants thier fellow citizens to
be aware of the circumstances that prevail in our nation. I'm really not that
good at asking questions, but am always more than willing to listen to
anyone's answers. In the future I'll try to do so more often. On the subject
of webmasters.....I'm sure Cincinnatus had a better idea of the current
situation when he made his decision, and I support whatever decision he and
the Senate henceforth make. OK, I'll drop that one now. I guess I just didn't
want anyone to get the wrong idea. By posting my opinions, I'm only trying to
get involved in the functioning of our Republic, to which I offer the
services I can provide. I have no anger or hard feelings towards any of you,
and if it was my post that set this off....I again apologize.

Yours,
G. Tarqunius Caesar

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:55:55 PDT

Salve

I would love to do something. I'm in Indiana and have felt very
distant from the rest of the civites.

Vale

Lucina Iunia Cypria

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: co-founders
From:	Anita Megas amgunn@--------
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:58:07 -0500

Komdu Saell Allir Romans!

<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wrote:

> Jeezus, is anybody around here having any FUN with NR anymore?
> (Except Rusticus, of course!)
>
> -- Flavia Claudia
>

I'm having fun!

In Frith og Troth - Piparskegg, wait a minute - Valete - Venator ;-)

Subject:	Re: Having Fun?
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:25:03 -0400 (EDT)

What kind of things would you like to do my dear! There are any number
of things that could be attempted. I have offered most of them to
younger members and they were not a al interested. They would be a
significant work load, and they would be in the area of Military
Engineering. My input on WebTV is borderline, and If I had a person to
put material in the commuter, I could get started on my Military
Engineering Bbliography, and My Greek / Roman Navy Bibliography. If you
are interested let me know.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!