Subject: Re: Agrippa And His Map
From: Masterofhistory masterofhistory@--------
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
Salvete,

I want to thank you, Audens for sharing this bit about
maps with the rest of us. In our lifetimes, we have
come to see in addition to accurate maps, satallite
observation of the earth and the GPS systems that
virtually make it impossible to get lost (provided one
can read a map or the GPS). This certainly makes our
view of the world and indeed our view of what lies
just beyond the horizon much different than it did to
the Romans and other ancient peoples.

It is too bad a map such as Agrippa's does not
survive, someone as well-traveled as he could have
helped to make a good map. I can't help but wonder if
Agrippa's map would have been like the other Roman
maps that do survive. These maps, I'm thinking of the
Peutinger Table in particular, seem like what we
nowadays might call an itinerary. Rather than showing
landforms, exact routes of roads etc. this map
displays relative positions of cities, stations and
encampments and the approximate distance in days of
travel to each. Isadore of Charax does this sort of
itinerary too. I've always made the assumption that
maps and itineraries such as these were basic
overviews of a region and that specialists and guides
would be needed or advisable to actually make it from
point to point in the ideal amount of time.

Of course, during the early imperial period, with its
well-maintained roads one simply had to follow a road
and it lead to one's destination. The Roman army
could move from Rome to Hispania or Gaul and to Greece
and Thrace with relative swiftness and ease. The
literature from antiquity certainly discusses the lay
of the land across the Mediterranean region; the
rivers, the mountains the plains the desrets and their
relative sizes, lengths or distances. To be sure, the
ancient world did have maps of the known world, albeit
crude ones by our standards. What seems interesting
to me is the fact that these are not present or do not
survive in many Roman sources. Geography seems to be
more of a Greek area of study. This has lead some
people to conclude that the Romans, while excelling in
surveying and road making, cared little for actual
cartography and less for geography. Hence, this
explains why their maps are basically a roadmap /
itinerary. I am not entirely convinced by arguements
making this case, for reasons that we know of some
maps made in the Roman era that do not survive, like
Caesar's or Agrippa's. If only we could see these.
Quaestor Audens, is there any evidence that tells us
what the map of Agrippa was like? I cannot think of
any copy that survives, but in your opinion, what do
you think this map was like? Was it an itinerary or an
ancient National Geographic?

===
Respectfully,
Avidius Tullius Callidus
Paterfamilias, gens Tullia
Tribune of the People
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Subject: Re: Agrippa And His Map
From: jmath669642reng@--------)
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 19:53:58 -0400 (EDT)
I thank you most kindly for your comments about Agrippa and His Map. I
thought that it might be of some interest to the NR members precisely
for the reasons that you forward. Maps are much taken for granted in
the present age, but my small experience in putting such together in
re-enactment tells me something of the complicated nature of the task.
Another aspect of the same topic is the caution placed in all
discussions about Roman Roads and maps which indicate that the best
facilitiies along the Roman Roads were reserved for the Imperial Post
Riders or men of rank. In our present world, everyone considers
themselves to be of that required rank without understanding the true
standing of most Roman citizens who, in spite of their claim to Roman
affiliation, were still forced to sleep in the fields and crouch over
open fires for warmth and for at least hot if not edible food.

In response to your question, only the fact of the shape of the
collonade wall on which the map was projected, suggests that the map was
like a Mercator projection, in that it was probably in a rectangular
shape. I did not include the nine pages of comments from Pliny which
address Agrippa's Map specifically. The comments were mostly directed
at the correction of the milages from point to point. If you are
interested, I could provide them to you. Do you have a book of Pliny
with the numbered passages?

I also, in the same area of study, have a simplified reproduction of
Eratosthene's map of the oikumene, (The World according to Eratosthenes,
circa 220 BC) based on north-south and east-west lines intersecting at
Rhodes. From his calculations he determined that the parallel of Rhodes
was 36 degrees North. In his time it had been accepted that the earth
was in fact a sphere and he calculated the circumferance of the earth as
24, 663 imperial miles as opposed to the actual 24,902 imperial miles.
The above map is in rectangular format as with Mercator Projections and
is quite recognizable as the Mediterranean and Middle / Far East.
Africa is labeled Libya (something which the present ruler of that
country aspires to once again (<Grin>). The Nile and her tributaries
are clearly marked as is the Red Sea, Araban Felix, Persian Gulf and the
Caspian Sea. Britain is there as well as Ireland and Thule is at the
top of the map. It is supposed that Agrippa's Map would be similar in
structure, but much more detailed Apparently there were several maps at
different periods of the world, the empire, before Agrippa, and in point
of fact Agrippa is supposed to have based his map on Julius Caesar's map
which was neither as accruate nor as detailed..

In determing the role of the Romans in cartography, I can only say that
in most other endeavors they gave little to the world by original
thinking, but presented the world with a vast empire based upon using
well the information at hand. Cartography is like any other science in
that once the calculations are made, and "papers" given, then it falls
to someone with the means and drive to make something useful of it. The
road system seems to be that way of turning science to practicality in
the Roman World and the roads, as you say.,led to where you wished to
go. It is only after the difficulty in the Rome Civil Wars, that
Augustus commissioned this map of which we speak, and placed the project
into the hands of a trusted subordinate, who had the loyalty, experience
and background to carry it out..

My feeling is that it was a map similar to the one that Eratosthenes
drew of the world. Pliny does not mention latitude or longitude
markings and he certainly would have if they were there. I cannot
conceive that the map would not be incised in stone rather than only
painted, based on the popularity of the builder with Emperor Augustus.
I have seen similar maps adorning walls in California which discuss the
various Spanish Missions in Norte California, and they are most
enlighting. I should think that the painting would have been to
highlight the incised map (the Romans painted everything it seems)..
There are many examples of incised diagrams on the walls of the
Praefects House in a number of legionary forts having to do with
building diagrams, so the practice was certainly known to nearly every
officer and senior centurian who served in the legions.

The Peutinger Table will be addressed at a future time, as it has it's
own unique attributes as well, and is a facinating study. The P.T. is
very similar to the "strip maps" that you get from the Triple A when you
ask them to plan an itinerary, where nobody cares about anything but the
road intersections and characteristics that mark the road itself. I
believe the Agrippa's Map was for the purpose of showing the Roman
people their empire, and providing basic information as to proposed
destinations. The more speciifc needs would probably have been handled
by a cartographer who would provide something like the P.T. for a price.
Remember that travel by road was not cheap, It was usually dangerous
(bandits, wild dogs / animals, weather, etc.) and you had to be aware of
where you were at all times, unlike traveling by ship, whose Captain and
Gubernator were responsible for your whereabouts.and your reasonalbly
safe delivery.

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!