| Subject: |
Re: Sodalitas |
| From: |
BenBorgo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 02:04:06 EDT |
|
Salve Romanii!
Actually, I'm glad you brought it up. Several interested citizens posted
replys to my initial ideas, and I've been trying to create a functional
website to start out with, and am pleased to say I should be able to get it
onto the web next week. I was going to wait to announce the opening of the
Sodalitas, and to begin any readings until I got the website up. I've a short
section on the Gallic Wars by Gaius Iulius Caesar on the page as our first
selection (I hope no one disagrees with the choice.) I will post the address
for the Sodalitas as soon as it is up. In the meantime, could anyone who is
interested email me? I'm looking forward to reading the Gallic Wars again, &
I believe Audens had suggested we begin in late May/early June. I hope to
hear from a few Nova Roman authors too as this section of the page is pretty
much empty. As for the rest of the contents, I'm going to keep everyone in
suspense for just a little longer
My warmest regards,
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
|
| Subject: |
Re: Vestalia |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 04:54:14 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/26/99 5:55:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> writes:
<< I am planning on celebrating the Vestalia on June 9th in my private
temple,
all who wish to send out their energies are welcome to join in in spirit. >>
Salvete all Romans
The Vestalia is very important to Nova Roma. More so since we don't have a
Virgo Maxima. I ask all Romans to make a small sacrifice and utter a prayer
to Vesta, for the continued well being of Rome during that sacred day.
Valete
Q Fabius Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Classical Values |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 03:57:50 PDT |
|
Salvete!
Scripsit Exitilius (We have to call you something if you won't give us a
name, rectne?):
>What I meant by classical values was the Roman Virtues, which dont
>necessarily need gods included, the gods are just a plus.
- The Virtues ARE divinities, not least Arete. They have a tangible,
objective existence which is infinitely more than mere allegory. Even if
they did not exist in the Beginning, by emerging as primal thoughts from
the mind of the DemiUrge (as the neo-Platonists teach), their existence now
as agglomerates of mental energy, repeatedly evoked by humans if by no other
agency, and which have evolved self-awareness, would be inevitable. It's
not simply a question of optional belief. That would be like opting not to
believe in bacteria: it wouldn't change the influence they have on our
lives.
>You said if it turns into a moral majority you're out...uh these dont
>necessarily mean that you are moral. Just means honorable.
- I appreciate your distinction, Exitilius: being honourable simply requires
consistent behaviour in line with declared criteria, which can be (but are
not necessarily) the mores or morals. They can be one's own precepts. But
then, they wouldn't be classical. Being moral is to go further and embody
the mores, or in our case, the Mos Maiorum - the Mores of the Elders - but
in the sense I originally meant it, as in 'Moral Majority', I was referring
simply to a known organisation of self-righteous bigots who are the last
kind of person I'd want to see taking over Nova Roma..
>I'm sorry guys I'm just trying to give suggestions here.
- I'd noticed. Why so generous, though? What Nova Roma does or doesn't do is
up to its citizens. Have you applied for citizenship? If not, why all these
suggestions from a non-member? I don't understand your motivation here.
>"DONT call yourself a sovereign nation". Lets face it, NR as is isnt
>remotely close to one and isnt really trying to be. So unless theres quite
>a
>few people who start trying to make NR a nation I really think that whole
>sov
>nation thing should be Xed.
- Please be careful, Exilius-or-whoever-you-are. I seem to remember that one
Temale (was that you in a previous web life?) got into trouble and was
virtually exiled for his forthright, and not very well-considered,
opinions on these lines, which gave offence to many citizens. I really don't
think that the politics of Nova Roma is properly your affair unless and
until you are a citizen. As it is, if you're not even registered with the
Censors to vote, don't you think you're being a tad previous? :-P
- and would you care to answer Ericius' question? Not giving your name is a
kind of Net equivalent of trying normal social interaction whilst wearing a
ski-mask. It makes people uneasy.
Valete,
Vado.
>An old question so far as the Nova Roma list goes...
>Who is this person? An email address handle is not a name. Be it Roman
>name of handle be
>it Ericius or Highflyer. Do we call you Exitil? Could you please sign your
>messages as a
>form of actually putting your name to them?
>
>Valete.
>C. Aelius Ericius
>Propraetor of California Provincia
>Pontiff
>Paterfamilias of gens Aelia
|
| Subject: |
Permanant Home!!! |
| From: |
"Mater Crys" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 08:39:10 -0500 |
|
Salvete!!
I am thrilled to announce that the Sodalis Pro Infantia has finally
moved to it's own domain!!
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
Come and join us! Membership is free and is not limited to Nova
Romans alone, but anyone interested in this not very well covered
subject.
I am still making some minor changes to the pages, like fixing
email links and the like. The page always seems to be under
some sort of construction <G>, but always looks nice. The
Society now offers an award. There is a small section about
midwives (sort of <G>). There is a translation of a modern day
song in the works (I would dare say it is no easy task!!!). Looks
like we're comin along nicely.
I was trying to figure out how to keep members together and it was
resolved by the formation of another OneList. Upon membership
approval, members will be added to the list where they may submit
their articles and vote whenever anything requiring a vote comes
up. The Other projects will likely be abandoned for this simpler
solution.
Anyhoo, come on in, the waters fine!!!!!!!!!
Valete,
Crys
The Gods could not be everywhere, so they created mothers.
Reworded Jewish saying.
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Nova Roma Needs |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:57:22 -0400 (EDT) |
|
While new ideas are certainly wellcomed in Nova Roma, sweeping ideas
that would change the NR in major ways are really not. The organization
has been founded first as a society which offers the Roman Religio to
those who wish to practice it, and political and technical
considerations a long ways second. Political involvement is of course
necessary to keep the orgnization running, bu is not as I understand it,
the driving force. Technical military aspects are really part and
parcel to research and general interest at this point in my view..
There are those like myself who make their home here as students of
history enjoying the richness of the historical climate and the
advantages of the outstanding Roman knowledge which is freely shared
among the members.
Still others have their own reasons for living in these halls of
history. However, all of us are aware, as should be anyone new to the
organization, that sweeping changes or suggestions of change are not
desired by the majority. There is really only one way to further NR at
this point, and that is to work for it. Share your knowledge, run for
office, become an expert in some aspect of Roman life and share it with
the membership, offer to help the many areas that need people's
assistance, but first get registered with NR and identify yourself to
the satisfactin of the organization and to the members.
Many of the questions and comments on this net, both currently and in
the past indicate that new candidates for membership have not heeded the
request to read our web-page carefully for whatever reason, and failure
to do so is to disrupt the NR in many ways, that may not be immediately
apparant to a newcomer. If NR interests you, by all means identify
yourself, read the web-page carefully and select how you can best help
NR to grow. Otherwise perhaps another area of interest may be more
suited to your apptitudes.
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma Needs |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:37:44 PDT |
|
Salve
I wanted to apologize to the webmaster for not getting back with him about
helping on the web site. I got transferred into another department at work
and have been up to my eyebrows in work. I think I live at work right
now...it's gotten so bad my answering machine says to leave an email address
if you want to hear from me in a reasonable amount of time. I didn't mean to
flake out on this, the time just flies when you don't have a life.
Vale
Lucina Iunia Cypria
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com" target="_top" >http://www.msn.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Roma Needs |
| From: |
Exitil@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 17:59:45 EDT |
|
<< Still others have their own reasons for living in these halls of
history. However, all of us are aware, as should be anyone new to the
organization, that sweeping changes or suggestions of change are not
desired by the majority. There is really only one way to further NR at
this point, and that is to work for it. Share your knowledge, run for
office, become an expert in some aspect of Roman life and share it with
the membership, offer to help the many areas that need people's
assistance, but first get registered with NR and identify yourself to
the satisfactin of the organization and to the members.>>
My name is Alexander Novus. Secondly, I have passing knowledge of most
aspects of Rome, but that is not my focus. Was planning on creating a new
nation, not going back to the old. As for getting registered, I mailed in a
citizen app about a week ago to the censors.
<<Many of the questions and comments on this net, both currently and in
the past indicate that new candidates for membership have not heeded the
request to read our web-page carefully for whatever reason, and failure
to do so is to disrupt the NR in many ways, that may not be immediately
apparant to a newcomer. If NR interests you, by all means identify
yourself, read the web-page carefully and select how you can best help
NR to grow. Otherwise perhaps another area of interest may be more
suited to your apptitudes. >>
Actually I have read the webpage thoroughly and I've talked with many
members. I understand that Nova Roma at present focuses on the history of
Rome whether virtues or religion, etc. My confusion comes when NR refers to
itself as the spiritual descendants of the old Rome, or as a sovereign
nation. When I think of a nation I think of land, industries, military, etc.
and those things would not necesarrily need to correspond to ancient Rome.
And as for disrupting NR, I probably am - I dont mean to purposely cause harm
its just an unfortunate side effect. Nova Roma is directly linking itself to
Rome, calling itself a sovereign nation, and then it guts out all the things
that make a nation a nation. Personally, I think that either NR should put
some work into becoming a nation or it should simply take the words
"sovereign nation" and "descendant of ancient rome" out of the website. I
know I'm only one person but I really do think this is a valid request.
-Alexander Novus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Sodalitas |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 18:43:17 -0700 |
|
Salve, Gn. Tarquinius.
I would like to be kept apprised of this project. Thank you.
Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: a real Roman |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 22:08:28 -0400 |
|
Salve
Greetings to a real resident of citta Roma. Welcome to the Nova Roma list.
:original, not the one of fantasy you have created.
Actually, this is not quite a fantasy. We are all real people who share a
love of Rome, you know, classical Rome, the city state that grew to the
western world's greatest empire. We have declared sovereignty in the bonds
of that shared love and are trying to build it into a nation. While we may
have various visions of our future that constitute fantasies, our present
existence is no fantasy.
I was checking for some
:interesting Mailing Lists on Onelist. I thought this could be interesting
:because I like history and I like Roman history.
Me too.
And I was quite astonished
:when I realized there really is some people who recreated a Rome of
:Fantasy, well that would not be strange, but that this involves religion
:also, well, that seems to me quite unusual. Maybe because Rome is so tied
:to Catholic religion, but paganism is seen as somethnig which really does
:not belong to today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
:to -say- uicorns, fairy tales etc..
Modern citta Roma houses catholicism, of course that's true. And the events
that led to that reality are important parts of history. But that's not the
Rome about which we're talking here. The Rome that we look to emulate, and
the culture and values of which we seek to study and propagate, thrived long
before Christ lived, let alone Rome became the spiritual capital of his
followers.
No offense to modern Italian culture, but it simply is not the subject of
our collective passion here. Not at all.
As far as unicorns are concerned, well, I don't think that they figure
prominently in Religio Romana; in fact, from my very incomplete grasp of
the Religio, I understand that mythical beasts play no visible role in it
whatsoever; even less, say, than the role such beasts play in the Christian
writings, such as the chariot and horses of fire in the Second Book of
Kings.
:I mean, do you really believe in anciest Roman and Greek Gods or is it a
:sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't understand!
It is not a role game.
:
:Ciao!
:Renato
:
Vale
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Nova Roma Needs |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 22:21:31 -0400 (EDT) |
|
As you say, my friend, you are one person. When you are registered in
NR as a citizen, then you have the right to propose to the Senate the
changes that you believe are necessary. My earlier comments do not seem
to carry much weight with you, so you must pursue your own course from
this point.
I can however, assure you that the effort to have the words. "soverighn
nation" stricken from the intentions and anticipation of NR will be
difficult to do, as like many others of the organization, I will need
more than your assurances that it is incorrect, and your request that
things be changed.
I would think that if you found an organization that you wished to
belong to, that you would wish to work toward the goals of the majority,
until such time as you were fully founded in the organization, and had a
solid basis of service for the organization behind you. Perhaps, that
is an old fashioned way to do things, but I find it still works
tolerably well, in my estimation.
I wish you the best of good fortune in your membership with NR and in
the pursuit of your goals..
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: a real Roman |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 22:36:29 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/27/99 3:47:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------writes:
<< From: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&----------------br>
>>Hello everybody from the very center of the world, <<
Ciao Rennie,
Well, first of all the center of world in ancient times was
Delphi, Greece, so all ready your scholarship is suspect.
Center of the Catholic world would be a correct statement.
>>yes, I am from Rome, the original,<<
Funny you say that. In my view your Rome is not original. You
could say that your Rome is a carbon copy, (and not a very good
one) of the original city on the Tiber, but it is not Rome that I
studied.
>>And I was quite astonished when I realized there really is some
people who recreated a Rome of Fantasy, well that would not be
strange, but that this involves religion also, well, that seems
to me quite unusual.
>> Why is our Rome such a fantasy? We have recreated the offices
of the Republic, they exist and they function. No fantasy there.
We pay homage to the original Gods and Goddess whose vitality
made Rome great, not the selfish Deities that exist today.
>>Maybe because Rome is so tied to Catholic religion, but
paganism is seen as something which really does not belong to
today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
to -say- unicorns, fairy tales etc...<<
Why not? The only reason that Rome is the home of the Papal
chair which ties the modern city to the Western Roman Catholic
church is that Constantinople fell in 1453, otherwise the home of
the Catholic Church would still be split. The reason why Rome
was the spreading point for Christianity was simple. The roads
and trade nets all originated at Rome. If Athens was never
conquered by the Turks, and it still had it's trading empire
maybe the focal point would have began there. When it looked
like Italy would fall to the Turks, it was discussed to move the
Holy See to France for safety. The battle of Lepanto eliminated
the Turk threat. Otherwise, today France could have been the
seat of the Catholic Church.
>>I mean, do you really believe in ancient Roman and Greek Gods
or is it a sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't
understand!<<
Aren't humanistic Gods easier to understand, then those that you
have exist by sheer faith alone? The concept is pretty simple.
If they are there, and I and hundreds believe that they are, then
if we pay homage to them they become more powerful. Maybe
eventually they will feel powerful enough to make appearances
again. It sounds like you are lacking in faith for any type of
religion. To sum up what we say in our announcements, yes we do!
Vale Renato!
SFP Roman Historian
|
| Subject: |
Re: a real Roman |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 22:45:22 EDT |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I've been away from the list for well over a week now... as I've been working
terribly long hours setting up a new branch office at work. :P It's been so
bad I've gone several days without so much as being able to check Email,
never mind being able to participate in discussions! It's good to be able to
get back into the list. I've missed everyone!
In a message dated 5/27/99 6:47:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------writes:
<< From: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------br>
>Hello everybody from the very center of the world, yes, I am from Rome, the
original, not the one of fantasy you have created.
Thanks for posting, Renato! :) I'm not sure that people organizing themselves
in the ancient Roman manner to share a love for the Classical world
necessarily counts as "fantasy" however. You'll find that Nova Roma is filled
with practical folks who are in fact *not* play-acting or role-playing. We're
modern people who live in the Western world... and who understand that Rome
is the very foundation from which our world today began. We participate in
Roman culture as we can, not as an escape, but rather to enrich and provide
more meaning to the modern technological lives we live.
There's more to being "Roman" than living in the city of Rome itself. Even
the ancient Romans would have told you that - especially those Citizens
living in provinces as far away as Britain and Africa. Surely you know that
by the 2nd century most of the ancient Classical world was considered Roman
regardless of race or locality. It is a cultural (if not blood) heritage now
shared by many nations and peoples.
>I was checking for some
interesting Mailing Lists on Onelist. I thought this could be interesting
because I like history and I like Roman history. And I was quite astonished
when I realized there really is some people who recreated a Rome of
Fantasy, well that would not be strange, but that this involves religion
also, well, that seems to me quite unusual.
I hate to surprise you, but we're not the only folks in the world doing such
a thing. There is in fact a fairly substantial Ancient Roman Pagan movement
right in your home country of Italy. They produce at least two magazines in
Italian that I know of, and have even built a temple to the Roman goddess
Flora in the city of Milan, where there are quite serious ancient style
religious rites being held.
>Maybe because Rome is so tied
to Catholic religion, but paganism is seen as somethnig which really does
not belong to today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
to -say- uicorns, fairy tales etc...
Indeed! With Vatican City perched right atop the greatest city of the ancient
world, traditional ancient religion is not at all generally well thought of
in Italy. That doesn't mean that ancient religion is fantasy and never
existed! Nor does much of ancient Roman culture have anything at all to do
with the Italy of today. Whether that is good or bad is certainly something
that is up to the opinion of the individual... but I will say that there are
many generations of ancient Romans that would surely say that the Italy of
today has become something quite fundamentally alien to it's traditional
heritage.
> I mean, do you really believe in anciest Roman and Greek Gods or is it a
sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't understand!
There are both Christian and Pagan citizens within Nova Roma. Those who are
Pagan have as much religious feeling for the ancient deities as Christians
hold for Jesus, and they worship with as much serious intent as people of any
other faith. It's in fact a puzzling question that you've asked... I can't
imagine what a Catholic would say if I declared they were playing "Fantasy
Pope" by attending church! ;)
Hopefully you'll find Nova Roma interesting enough to stay awhile and get to
know some of the people. I'm sure you'll be surprised by the seriousness, and
rationality, of people attempting to evoke some of the power and positive
qualities from the Classical roots upon which the modern world was founded.
The basic requirement of Citizenship is a sincere interest in the Roman Way,
and the desire to participate in it. If your interest is deeper than passing
curiosity you may well find friends and many enjoyable times among us!
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Bridging the Danube |
| From: |
hadji hadji@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:14:39 +0200 |
|
Salve amice Marco Audens,
Salvete Romani,
Dear Marco Audens, I thank you very much for your interesting letter and
kind words to me. I am quite affraid my person do not deserve them as I
am absolute amateur in history.
I am also feeling quite uncomfortably to share you that I have not
received your pictures yet. In the next few days I will check up
personaly on the customs post office here and will immediately inform
you if the letter was waiting for me there.
You probably know the famouse phrase "Other countries, other ways...
other post officers". But I am grateful to you and thank you for the
gratious gesture and attention to me.
> --Legion I-Adiutrix;
> --Legion II-Adiutrix;
> --Legion IIII-Flavia;
> --Legion VII-Claudia (Maximus' Legion);
As I know LEG I and II ADIUTRIX were formed by Nero about 69 AD. One of
them had taken part in the Civil war on the Otho's and Vespasianus'
side. After Dacian campaign were permaently stationed in BRIGETIO (I
ADIUTRIX) - Szony, HU and AQUINCUM (II ADIUTRIX) - Budapest, HU.
By the way, you certainly remember our discussion about Roman
limes/borders in the plane between the Danube and Tisza rivers. All the
known maps shaws that plane to be out of Roman borders, but... in
"Rimska province a limes romanus ve stredni a zapadni Evrope", Prague
1990 (a textbook for Czech university students) the authors J. Bouzek
and V. Sakar have sited a hungarian historician S. Soprony and have
enclosed a drawing of so called "Sarmatian limes" from the IV cent. So,
this Sarmatian limes lied roughly on the line VIMINACIUM (Kostolac, YU),
Oradea (RO), Nyireghaza (HU) - all about 150 km to the east of the
Tisza river. I find it great if Romans have still controlled in 4 cent
so big part of Dacia.
Few months ago I read on the NR list an interesting topic about
Etruscians. The author was looking for any connection beween the
Etruscians and Slavs. Although I find myself such a connection to be
very questionable, there is an information I would like to share to the
topic's author. In the same sited book I found a chapter (page Nr 103)
"The Etruscians and our land" (Czecho - Slovakia). There were described
depots of Etruscians artifacts in Czech and Slovakia. These lands lays
on the Amber way to Balticum coast. As we know Poland and White Russia
to be pre-home of the Slavs there was theoretical possibility to exist
commercial contacts with Etruscians. I tried to trace at the map where
the Amber way was and with a surprise saw that between Etruria and
Eastern Alpes lays Venetia (with people speaking venetian language). It
could be certainly an accidental similarity as Roman historicians named
the Slavs as Venedes and Antes. I hope these well known facts to be
useful for Ms Cypria, but would like to add that nowhere in the modern
histories of the Slavs is a hypothesis of any genealogical connection
with Italian people.
Thank you again.
Bene vale!
Alexander I.C.P.M.
|
| Subject: |
The Bridges... |
| From: |
hadji hadji@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:34:19 +0200 |
|
Salvete Romani,
This is a free continuing of my latest message to the list.
I would like to share you some of my considerations on the line
Rome-Bridges-War-N Roma and at the same time would like to thank to Mr
Renato from the sity of Rome. His notes were a chance to hear another
opinion and from a different view point.
So I find "Bridge" to be very key word for Nova Roma. Bridge is a symbol
of joing us and is a synonime of civilization and culture in all its
differences and colours. I find civilization to be ability to understand
and accept differences with all the respect among us. Not to call
barbarian what we do not know or understand. This is my reply to a NR
friend who wrote me two months ago about barbarins on the Balkans.
I find all theories about homogenious and global world to be out of
sence. The true human values are the same everywhere whatever is the
religion, ideology or regime in a given state and need no tutors
(especially self - proclaimed).
So I think barbarians are who are destroying bridges - in the direct and
figurative meaning of the word.
All we have probably seen few times the famous movie "The bridge over
Kway river", but I wonder how many of us have read Ivo Andric roman "The
bridge over Drina river".It is at least so famous as the mentioned
movie.
Multas gratias et bene vale
Respectfully
Alexander I.C.P.Macedonicus
|
