Forum Romanum


Subject:	a real Roman
From:	Renato renato@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 00:44:45 +0200

Hello everybody from the very center of the world, yes, I am from Rome, the
original, not the one of fantasy you have created. I was checking for some
interesting Mailing Lists on Onelist. I thought this could be interesting
because I like history and I like Roman history. And I was quite astonished
when I realized there really is some people who recreated a Rome of
Fantasy, well that would not be strange, but that this involves religion
also, well, that seems to me quite unusual. Maybe because Rome is so tied
to Catholic religion, but paganism is seen as somethnig which really does
not belong to today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
to -say- uicorns, fairy tales etc...
I mean, do you really believe in anciest Roman and Greek Gods or is it a
sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't understand!

Ciao!
Renato


Subject:	Re: Vestalia
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 00:44:42 PDT

>From: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Digest Number 401
>Date: 28 May 1999 06:26:25 -0000
>
>
>It's finally here! What's your opinion?
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist.
>
>There are 12 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Re: Vestalia
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
> 2. Re: Classical Values
> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
> 3. Permanant Home!!!
> From: "Mater Crys" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a>
> 4. Nova Roma Needs
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
> 5. Re: Nova Roma Needs
> From: "Tinnekke Bebout" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a>
> 6. Re: Nova Roma Needs
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------;
> 7. a real Roman
&-------- From: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------/font>
> 8. Re: Sodalitas
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
> 9. Re: a real Roman
> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
> 10. Nova Roma Needs
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
> 11. Re: a real Roman
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
> 12. Re: a real Roman
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
Salvete!

>In a message dated 5/26/99 5:55:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
><a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> writes:
>
><< I am planning on celebrating the Vestalia on June 9th in my private
>temple,
> all who wish to send out their energies are welcome to join in in spirit.
> >>

Et Q. Fab. Maximus:

>Salvete all Romans
>
>The Vestalia is very important to Nova Roma. More so since we don't have a
>Virgo Maxima. I ask all Romans to make a small sacrifice and utter a
>prayer
>to Vesta, for the continued well being of Rome during that sacred day.
>Valete
>Q Fabius Maximus

- In Clausentum (Britannia) we intend to involve the children, as it's a
home-and-family thing (though the family analogy with Nova Roma hasn't
escaped me, either). Ovid's 'Fasti' isn't too helpful for ritual hints for
this one (doubtless because, being male, there were elements of Her rite he
was debarred from knowing? Purifying the hearth and burning offerings seem
obviously appropriate things to do, but it would be nice to work from
original sources. Any suggestions, please?

Valete bene in pace deorum,

N. Moravius Vado.


Subject:	Coins
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 08:46:59 EDT

Regarding coins...

Possibly produce a hundred or so crushed quarters a year kinda like "beany
babies" being limited collectors items (or have coins with different symbols
that you get depending on donations toward certain things)? Get some gold
coins and crush those if you want some high value ($25+) coins that could
actually be used as NR currency if we decided to somehow have a different
economic system.

<a href="http://www.eurolinkdesign.com/" target="_top" >http://www.eurolinkdesign.com/</a>
this is the company that makes the "smashed penny" machines for disney

-Alex Novus


Subject:	Real Romans, Real Gods
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 06:54:36 PDT

Salvete!

Scripsit G.M.Merullus:

>As far as unicorns are concerned, well, I don't think that they figure
>prominently in Religio Romana; in fact, from my very incomplete grasp of
>the Religio, I understand that mythical beasts play no visible role in it
>whatsoever; even less, say, than the role such beasts play in the
>Christian
>writings, such as the chariot and horses of fire in the Second Book of
>Kings.

-Ita! To the best of my knowledge as well, there are no mythical beasts or
zoomorphic deities in the Religio Romana, except as imports from Greek or
Egyptian mythology - and Etruscan religion, of course (serpent-limbed
Summanus, for example). Unicorns, themselves, are first mentioned in writing
in - the Bible! (Can't remember where, but a good Concordance will tell
you).

Valete in pace deorum,

N. Moravius Vado.


Subject:	Re: Real Romans, Real Gods
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 10:38:31 EDT

In a message dated 5/28/99 9:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:

<< -Ita! To the best of my knowledge as well, there are no mythical beasts or
zoomorphic deities in the Religio Romana, except as imports from Greek or
Egyptian mythology - and Etruscan religion, of course (serpent-limbed
Summanus, for example). Unicorns, themselves, are first mentioned in writing
in - the Bible! (Can't remember where, but a good Concordance will tell
you). >>

I'd probably disagree with that. Ancient Mediterranean peoples had always
maintained the belief in such mythological beasts as Fauns/Satyrs, Nymphs,
and Dryads. The Religio is interwoven extensively with the Greek and thus
would also incorporate Harpies, Gorgons, and of course the winged steed
Pegasus.

Unicorn? Hmmmmm...I don't recall it being mentioned in the christian bible.
However, I do recall a fable that tells how of all the animals Noah rescued
in his arc, he forgot the Unicorn and that's why there are none in the world.
Freakin' Noah! Sure...he saved the cockroach...but not the Unicorn! Foo-ey
on him!

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Real Romans, Real Gods
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 10:58:32 EDT

And thus another way to point out how the bible is wrong...

NO SHIP ever created and probably that ever will be created is big enough to
hold (along with enough food to feed for 40 days) a dozen+ people, 2
elephants, 2 horses, 2 cows, 2 chickens, 2 kangaroos, 2 wildebeasts, 2 deer,
2 cats, 2 dogs, 2 wolves, 2 raccoons, 2 panda bears, 2 grizzly bears, 2
doves, 2 ravens, 2 hawks, 2 eagles, 2 leopards, 2 lions, 2 cockroaches, 2
gazelles, 2 zebras, 2 penguins, 2 weasels, just to name a few. Theres a hell
of a lot of animals in the world.


Subject:	Re: a real Roman
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 09:05:24 PDT

Hello Renato
This is not a game. We believe in these Gods (at least us Pagans do). We are
not working with a fantasy Rome we are working with Rome as she was during
the Republic, not modern Rome. Your whole tone is very insulting and
offensive.

Cypria

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Weird Idea
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 12:39:49 EDT

Well heres a weird idea (but probably more normal than my last few). How
about having some sort of sport set up called the "Gladitorial Games" where
people use tower shields and nightsticks and charge at eachother like
legions... I mean, hey, people play football, why not add some shields and
clubs to it. ::chuckle::


Subject:	Roman Mythical Beasts
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 13:13:55 -0500 (CDT)

Moravius Vado scripsit...

>To the best of my knowledge as well, there are no mythical
>beasts or zoomorphic deities in the Religio Romana...

...et Marius Fimbria respondet:

Perhaps not in the formal State Religio, but mythical creatures have
always been a part of the folklore. As Dexippus has since mentioned,
fauns and wood-spirits were widely believed-in; harpies attack the
Trojan refugees in the Aeneid; I believe Horace and Pliny the Elder
mention werewolves; and I am happy to report that my favorite beastie,
the Griffin, figures prominently on carved sarcophogi (where it serves
as guardian of the dead) and in the cult of the Goddess Nemesis: She
is commonly symbolized by a Griffin with one forepaw on a wheel
(Fortune's Wheel, perhaps?), and two of them are said to draw Her
chariot.

As to the Biblical reference to Unicorns, it's in one of the Psalms:
'...and He has lifted up mine horn as the horn of a Unicorn...'; I can
look up the reference if anyone's really interested.

(Alexander Novus, I must caution you against spouting such rot as
>...And thus another way to point out how the bible is wrong...

...if you think that's what this List is for, I have a hunch you'll be
wearing out your welcome here [again] fairly soon. Do restrain
yourself before the Listowner has to do it for you.)
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> M�ria Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Sodalitas
From:	"Martins-Esteves" esteves@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 15:04:31 -0300

Ave Gnaee Tarquini
Avete Quirites

>A Gnaeo Tarquinio
>
>... Several interested citizens posted
>replys to my initial ideas, and I've been trying to create a functional
>website to start out with, and am pleased to say I should be able to get it
>onto the web next week.

I am happy to know that! I am still very enthusiastic about the idea and am
ready to help in anything possible.

> I've a short section on the Gallic Wars by Gaius Iulius Caesar on the page
as our first
>selection (I hope no one disagrees with the choice.)

As already said, this is one of the best texts, with which we could begin.

A propos, before someone asks 'who is this person?', I should say I am not
properly a cives novus, but an avis rara, who has been more reading than
participating of this list, considering my chronic lack of time.

Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus


Subject:	Re: Weird Idea
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 15:00:34 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 5/28/99 9:40:38 AM P--------ic D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------;
writes:

<< Well heres a weird idea (but probably more normal than my last few). How
about having some sort of sport set up called the "Gladitorial Games" where
people use tower shields and nightsticks and charge at eachother like
legions... I mean, hey, people play football, why not add some shields and
clubs to it. ::chuckle:: >>

It's still done now. It's called the Society of Creative Anarchism (SCA.)
When I was a member we used rattan swords, traffic cone axes, real mail and
plate. Our helms ranged from old Freon cans to Spagenhelms designed by
armorers
You sound like an old friend of mine. One, I had many a discussion with
earlier in the year.

Q. Fabius


Subject:	Saylor & Davis
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 15:02:18 -0500 (CDT)

I finally read the new Steven Saylor book, "Rubicon" and it's just as good as all his others. Fans of Pompey
might not be as pleased at the portrayal of him as fans of Caesar will be, but the story's solid. Gordianus'
new son-in-law, Davus, is forced to serve in Pompey's army, his son Meto is still Caesar's right-hand man
(and lover, so the rumors say), somebody's killed Pompey's favorite nephew right in Gordianus' own house,
thre's a plot against Caesar's life that might involve his closest friends, and Cicero is up to his old political
tricks, even though Marc Antony has threated to cut off Cicero's head and hands. This all forces some very
hard personal choices on Gordianus, and eventually, the unthinkable happens to the "most honest man in
Rome." (No, he's not dead or anything...) Be prepared to stay up all night reading, like I did.

IBS informs me that they've finally sent my copy (after I ordered it in SEPTEMBER of last year) of Lindsey
Davis' "Two for the Lions" in which Falco teams up with Anacrites (Falco's Ma finally wore him down) and
becomes a tax collector! Looks like Falco is finally headed for middle-class respectability, whether he
wants it or not. Davis also has another one coming up, "One Virgin Too Many" in which a member of the
Arval Brethren is murdered in the Sacred Grove, and Queen Berenice of Judea is into some questionable
dealings with the Vestals. Can't wait for this one!

I'll keep you informed.

-- F. Claudia


Subject:	a real roman
From:	"Patrick Dunn" saevvs@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 12:42:53 PDT

>Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:44:45 +0200
&-------- From: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------/font>
>Subject: a real Roman
>
>Hello everybody from the very center of the world, yes, I am from Rome, the
>original, not the one of fantasy you have created. I was checking for some
>interesting Mailing Lists on Onelist. I thought this could be interesting
>because I like history and I like Roman history. And I was quite astonished
>when I realized there really is some people who recreated a Rome of
>Fantasy, well that would not be strange, but that this involves religion
>also, well, that seems to me quite unusual. Maybe because Rome is so tied
>to Catholic religion, but paganism is seen as somethnig which really does
>not belong to today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
>to -say- uicorns, fairy tales etc...
>I mean, do you really believe in anciest Roman and Greek Gods or is it a
>sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't understand!

I'll put it simply: Yes, I believe in Apollo and Iuppiter and Iuno at least
as much as you believe in Jesus and the Virgin. And we at Nova Roma are
hardly the only ones to believe in old gods who now are considered extinct.
Check out Asatru, Wicca, and hundreds of other Neopagan religions.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: a real Roman
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 18:45:29 EDT

<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------wrote:

&--------rom: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------/font>
>
>Hello everybody from the very center of the world, yes, I am from Rome, the
>original, not the one of fantasy you have created. I was checking for some
>interesting Mailing Lists on Onelist. I thought this could be interesting
>because I like history and I like Roman history. And I was quite astonished
>when I realized there really is some people who recreated a Rome of
>Fantasy, well that would not be strange, but that this involves religion
>also, well, that seems to me quite unusual. Maybe because Rome is so tied
>to Catholic religion, but paganism is seen as somethnig which really does
>not belong to today's Roman and Italian culture, it is something comparable
>to -say- uicorns, fairy tales etc...
>I mean, do you really believe in anciest Roman and Greek Gods or is it a
>sort of Role Game?? please tell me because I don't understand!
>
>Ciao!
>Renato

Salve Renato

You are clearly not a Roman but an Italian -- "ciao" indeed. Nova Roma
is no more a fantasy than the city in which you think you live, which is
quite a bit different from the Roma we look to as an ideal. And by the
way, your Rome is full of paganism, as is most of Western
European/American civilization. Even the Catholic Church is full of pagan
symbols, pagan rites, and pagan dogmas. Christianity, it could be (and
has been) argued, is a myth.

Perhaps you rustic Italians are not sophisticated enough even yet to
realize that human institutions and culture are creations of the mind and
spirit of Man (non-gender specific), and what Nova Roma is aimed at doing
is re-creating some of the best of the institutions and culture of the
real Rome. You may live close by some of the stones and statuary left
from Rome, but that doesn't make you a Roman any more than it did the
occupying Visigoths and Huns many centuries ago.

You are, of course, welcome to join us in seeking to be truly Roman. It
might be nice if you would lose some of the silly condescension though.

Vale,

Lucius Sergius Australicus

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Weird Idea
From:	megas-robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 21:43:35 -0700

Vertu Saell Allir!

If I may, this is the SCA at any major war. I had the honor of being the
right of the first line in the Third Company of the Calontir Army one year
at Pennsic. It is quite the feeling one gets when 3000 armor clad warriors
all seem to be aimed at you.

I' Frithur - Venator Septentrionalis

From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------;
>
> Well heres a weird idea (but probably more normal than my last few).
> How about having some sort of sport set up called the "Gladitorial
> Games" where people use tower shields and nightsticks and charge at
> eachother like legions... I mean, hey, people play football, why not
> add some shields and clubs to it. ::chuckle::
>
> Alex Novus


Subject:	Re: Sodalitas
From:	megas-robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 28 May 1999 21:53:17 -0700

Ave Titus Horatius Atticus!

I, for one, do remember you and am glad to see your signature again.

In Amicus - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator

Martins-Esteves wrote:
>
> From: "Martins-Esteves" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a>
>
> Ave Gnaee Tarquini
> Avete Quirites
>
> (Snipped the Tarquinii post about Caesar's "Gallic War")
>
> As already said, this is one of the best texts, with which we could begin.
>
> A propos, before someone asks 'who is this person?', I should say I am not
> properly a cives novus, but an avis rara, who has been more reading than
> participating of this list, considering my chronic lack of time.
>
> Valete
>
> Titus Horatius Atticus