Forum Romanum


Subject:	My Replies
From:	Renato renato@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 22:07:20 +0200

Hello
First of all with my message I did not mean to offend anybody, so if
someone found it offensive, I apologise. I was just curious to find out
what was going on here.
Now with the replies:

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

>>>Hello everybody from the very center of the world, <<
>Ciao Rennie,
>Well, first of all the center of world in ancient times was
>Delphi, Greece, so all ready your scholarship is suspect.
>Center of the Catholic world would be a correct statement.

Actually the center of the Christian world is Jerusalem, but I referred to
that very special feeling that inhabitants of Rome have, that thay are at
the very center of the world.

>Funny you say that. In my view your Rome is not original. You
>could say that your Rome is a carbon copy, (and not a very good
>one) of the original city on the Tiber, but it is not Rome that I
>studied.

Rome is Rome and you cannot change her history, if you have studied only a
litlle part of the history of Rome then you should not sign yourself as a

>SFP Roman Historian

Maybe "Historian of Anciest Rome" But History of Rome started up in a
little Villanovan Village on Palatino Hill 3000 years ago (although some
historians say the very first nucleus was a Etruscan Village on Tiberina
Island) and arrives to present days, you cannot exclude all the Popes, the
Roman Revolution of year 1868, the entreance of Garibaldi and Italian Army
in Rome from Porta Pia etc.. from history of Rome.

>The reason why Rome
>was the spreading point for Christianity was simple. The roads
>and trade nets all originated at Rome. If Athens was never
>conquered by the Turks, and it still had it's trading empire
>maybe the focal point would have began there. When it looked
>like Italy would fall to the Turks, it was discussed to move the
>Holy See to France for safety. The battle of Lepanto eliminated
>the Turk threat. Otherwise, today France could have been the
>seat of the Catholic Church.

You are quite a suspect historian, real historians never use "IFs", you
dont go anywhere with "IFs" , it is obvious that all events in history are
linked together. In the year 113 Bc the army of the Cimbri (German people
from today's Denmark) won against Roman army of Gneo Papirio Carbone. They
could have conqued Rome finding no resistance, but for some strange reasons
decided to go to Gallia instead. The same thing happened a few years later,
on 109 Bc: the powerful army of Marco Giunio Silano lost against Cimbri and
Teutoni on South Gallia. Again they went to internal Gallia instead of
taking Rome. If they had decided to take Rome, nobody can say what could
have been of Rome. (for all whom may be interested: a powerful Roman Army
commanded by Caio Mario managed to completely annihilate Cimbri and Teutoni
in two memorable battles at Aquae Sextiae (today's Aix-en-Provence, France)
in year 102 and Campi Rudii (today's Vercelli, Italy) in year 101).

>Aren't humanistic Gods easier to understand, then those that you
>have exist by sheer faith alone? The concept is pretty simple.
>If they are there, and I and hundreds believe that they are, then
>if we pay homage to them they become more powerful.

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; wrote:

>Even the Catholic Church is full of pagan
>symbols, pagan rites, and pagan dogmas. Christianity, it could be (and
>has been) argued, is a myth.

I am Catholic but I respect all kinds of religions. Even though the Holy
See is here, Rome has always be a very tolerant city: when in 1492 Queen
Isabel of Spain sent away Jewish people, they come here. The largest
Synagogue in the west world is here, the largest Mosque in the west world
is here.
My opinion however (I hope nobody gets offended) is that religion is
something that must belong to the culture where you were bruoght up, it
makes no sense to me an Italian who decides to become a Buddhist, or an
American who decides to believe in Anciest Roman and Greek Gods, it is the
act of "deciding to stop believing in a God and start believing in another
one" which is difficult to understand to me, at the roots there must be the
research for a fullfillment which is impossible to find in today's very
fast way of living. It is the very reason why New Age is being so popular.
But this is only my opinion, please don't get offended.

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:

>Surely you know that
>by the 2nd century most of the ancient Classical world was considered Roman
>regardless of race or locality. It is a cultural (if not blood) heritage now
>shared by many nations and peoples.

Yes, I do agree with you, Rome is at the root of western civilisation. All
Law Codes in west world are still based on Anciest Roman Codes.

>I will say that there are
>many generations of ancient Romans that would surely say that the Italy of
>today has become something quite fundamentally alien to it's traditional
>heritage.

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; wrote:

>You are clearly not a Roman but an Italian -- "ciao" indeed. Nova Roma
>is no more a fantasy than the city in which you think you live, which is
>quite a bit different from the Roma we look to as an ideal.

I do not agree here, today'Rome is tied to anciest Rome more than you all
may think. You notice even from little things such as -say- the SPQR sign
on every public bus and taxi. The Mayor of Rome has his office at Capitol,
where there is a room with a plaque with all people who governed Rome, from
King Romolo to Francesco Rutelli (today's Mayor). Of course it is different
from Anciest Rome, but in my opinion the 70,000 that gathers at Olympic
Stadium to see AS Roma footbal club are not too different from those who
used to gather at the Coliseum. April 21th is stil celebrated as the
"Birthday of Rome". But the most important thing is that we "feel" we have
that heritage for the simple reason that we were born and brought up here.
So please dont come and tell me that you are "more Roman than I am".

To conclude it is not surprise that most of you are Americans, America
always had an admiration for the Roman Empire for a very simple reason:
America is an imperialistic country, no wonder in Washington you (you
Americans I mean) have created another Capitol. But this is only the very
personal opinion of a Roman Socialist.

Again I apologise for any offense.

Ciao
Renato


Subject:	My Replies
From:	Renato renato@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 22:07:20 +0200


Subject:	Re: My Replies
From:	Renato renato@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 22:12:36 +0200

At 22.07 29/05/99 +0200, you wrote:
&--------rom: Renato <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=194056234237175190015242190036129" &--------enato@--------</a&--------/font>
>
>Hello

Sorry my message was posted twice because of a crash of my Email Software
while sendng the message.


Subject:	I am back
From:	heckifiknow@--------)
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 22:49:34 +0200

Salve amici,

it�s been rather long since you last heard of me, due to my being in
hospital for some time. But now I am back though not aready at my best
;-)
Wow, there was a whole lot of mail waiting for me and every bit
interesting

Vale

Lucius Metellus


Subject:	Re: My Replies
From:	heckifiknow@--------)
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 23:01:15 +0200

Salve Renato,

I am glad to hear that you did not want to offend anyone here but there
is one thing that I see a little different

You said:

> My opinion however (I hope nobody gets offended) is that religion is
> something that must belong to the culture where you were bruoght up, it
> makes no sense to me an Italian who decides to become a Buddhist, or an
> American who decides to believe in Anciest Roman and Greek Gods, it is the
> act of "deciding to stop believing in a God and start believing in another
> one" which is difficult to understand to me, at the roots there must be the
> research for a fullfillment which is impossible to find in today's very
> fast way of living. It is the very reason why New Age is being so popular.
> But this is only my opinion, please don't get offended.
>
>
Well what does that make of me. I am German, born French, so raised in a
christian country.
But I never was babtized, I never attended church ( No need to say how
glad I am )
Following you that would mean that I have to be an atheist, or what?
I do not think that you have to be of that religion that you are born,
because you are born simoly a human not a muslim, a pagan or a
christian!
And qouting an christian (Ambrosius): It is never too late, you are
never too old to recognize the truth, the right and good thing and
change yourself and your attitude.
If it were for you Augustinus could not be a christian but must have
stayed a pagan.

P.S.: You make me curious: A catholic Socialist????
I was raised by a socialist mother and I am still fairly left-winged but
I never came across a real catholic who was socialist?


Subject:	Help with Research
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 20:21:52 EDT

I know this isnt Roman related but just incase anybody knows of anything...

I'm looking for information regarding the people that inhabited Tenochtitlan
in ancient mexico prior to the Aztecs. I saw a show on the history channel
that talked about how the people there thought humanity stole life from the
gods...thought it was interesting. Thanks for anything you know of.


Subject:	Re: My Replies
From:	"Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" darth_vilmur@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 22:23:21 -0700

hey on the topic of "every one should practice the religion of their
country" or whatever the exact quote was.....
the entire western world is based on graeco/roman culture, government,
culture and what not...so one could say if you are a westerner you
are"ROMAN".
but also as for being the religion of your country, i am french irish
and cherokee(grandad is right off the res) so am i
a)catholic(irish)
b)heugonaut(french)
c)godless heathen (cherokee)
d)right wing maniac protestant
just wondering

Pascal Thiele wrote:

> Salve Renato,
>
> I am glad to hear that you did not want to offend anyone here but
> there is one thing that I see a little different
>
> You said:
>
>> My opinion however (I hope nobody gets offended) is that religion is
>> something that must belong to the culture where you were bruoght up, it
>> makes no sense to me an Italian who decides to become a Buddhist, or an
>> American who decides to believe in Anciest Roman and Greek Gods, it is the
>> act of "deciding to stop believing in a God and start believing in another
>> one" which is difficult to understand to me, at the roots there must be the
>> research for a fullfillment which is impossible to find in today's very
>> fast way of living. It is the very reason why New Age is being so popular.
>> But this is only my opinion, please don't get offended.
>>
>>
> Well what does that make of me. I am German, born French, so raised in
> a christian country.
> But I never was babtized, I never attended church ( No need to say how
> glad I am )
> Following you that would mean that I have to be an atheist, or what?
> I do not think that you have to be of that religion that you are born,
> because you are born simoly a human not a muslim, a pagan or a
> christian!
> And qouting an christian (Ambrosius): It is never too late, you are
> never too old to recognize the truth, the right and good thing and
> change yourself and your attitude.
> If it were for you Augustinus could not be a christian but must have
> stayed a pagan.
>
>
> P.S.: You make me curious: A catholic Socialist????
> I was raised by a socialist mother and I am still fairly left-winged
> but I never came across a real catholic who was socialist?
>


Subject:	Re: Parthenon
From:	hadji hadji@--------
Date:	Sat, 29 May 1999 14:53:00 +0200

Salvete Romani,

The message about transfering The Parthenon into something other as it
is now, CANNOT be true. It can be only an ordinary desinformation, which
aim is to discreditate orthodox church (which is a trend in the last few
years). It is a very known medial model:to put an information, later the
true could be presented with a very small letters, but in the peoples'
mind will be still fixed that orthodox churche is something evel.
I know very well Greeks and they are so proud of the whole their
historical heritage, that such an idea of transfering the Proud of
Athens into a church are absolutely ABSURD.

This could see as a true information in America but not here.
A Greek could be very proud of the ancient and hellinistic heritage and
at the same time to be a good christian. These two things are suitable
to each other.There are a lots of Aristoteles, Agamemnones, Alexanderes
etc. and all these people were named over the ancient not christian
people, only because of the historical reminiscences.

Do you remember how in the 19 cent. the unique artifacts of ancient art
were kept by christians greek priests, because foreign "Indians
Jones-es" were looking for this artefacts (The statue of Venera from the
Milos". Why all these statues are now in Paris, London, Washington etc,
but not in Athens or Thesaloniki?

Valete

Alexander I.C.P.M.