Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Falco (was Saylor & Davis)
From:	Nicolaus Moravius n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:26:32 PDT

Salvete.

A little before the last Kalends, Flavia Claudia wrote:

>IBS informs me that they've finally sent my copy (after I ordered it in
> >SEPTEMBER of last year) of Lindsey
>Davis' "Two for the Lions" in which Falco teams up with Anacrites >(Falco's
>Ma finally wore him down) and
>becomes a tax collector! Looks like Falco is finally headed for
> >middle-class respectability, whether he
>wants it or not.

-I'm another Falco fan. Come on! D'you really think Falco will ever become
respectable? (Or an Eques? Not always the same thing). So as not to spoil
anyone's future enjoyment of this one (and it's a good one), let's just say
that Falco does manage to emerge at the end with fewer social embarrassments
than he started with..

>Davis also has another one coming up, "One Virgin Too Many" in >which a
>member of the
>Arval Brethren is murdered in the Sacred Grove, and Queen >Berenice of
>Judea is into some questionable
>dealings with the Vestals. Can't wait for this one!

- Reading it now (and fending Vado off it). Came across it the same day as
Vestalia. Good synchronicity! Will keep you informed...

Valete,

Aletheia Moravia.


Subject:	Fait Accompli
From:	Donmeaker@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:40:07 EDT

Well, I am afraid that we are very impulsive.

Crys and I were married last night. Our plans for a ceremony on Father's day
weekend were not working out because one of our children was not available.
We decided that the most important thing was that we were present. The
ceremony took place at 11PM on 10 June, on our patio, under a clear sky with
stars. We winged the vows and spoke from our hearts. A grasshopper flitted
in, announcing the presence and approval of the Gods. Then we did all the
paper work, nice and legal. The bride wore purple, and the groom was
resplendent in denim. We are now awaiting for our rings to arrive in the
mail, and we will have a second ceremony to consecrate them.

Our love and affection to you all.

Don and Crys


Subject:	Fait Accompli
From:	Donmeaker@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:37:57 EDT


Subject:	Re: Fait Accompli
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:57:02 -0400 (EDT)

I am a little behind on my E-Mail due to preparations for Roman Days,
but my best wishes go out to you on this day following your betrothal.
I am supremely glad for both of you, and I hope and pray for the best
the world has to offer for both you and yours.

Most Humbly and Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Fait Accompli
From:	Megas-Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:36:25 -0700

Hailsa Minn Vinurs!

Eg gefa thu minn bletsung!

May all the Holy Ones of Olympus smile upon this union (with a little help
from the North <G> ).

In Amicus et Fidelis - Venator Duospiritu


Subject:	Re: Fait Accompli
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:37:51 EDT

Oy Vey!!!!

Congratulations! Now send us the pics!

---Dexippus

In a message dated 6/11/99 8:41:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132233234213056031213038109248147208071048" >Donme--------@--------</--------; writes:

<< Crys and I were married last night. Our plans for a ceremony on Father's
day
weekend were not working out because one of our children was not available.
We decided that the most important thing was that we were present. The
ceremony took place at 11PM on 10 June, on our patio, under a clear sky with
stars. We winged the vows and spoke from our hearts. A grasshopper flitted
in, announcing the presence and approval of the Gods. Then we did all the
paper work, nice and legal. The bride wore purple, and the groom was
resplendent in denim. We are now awaiting for our rings to arrive in the
mail, and we will have a second ceremony to consecrate them.
>>


Subject:	Re: My Replies
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:21:45 PDT

Hadji
Thanks for your letter. It's amazing how much I could understand. :)
You've spurred me to want to refresh my knowledge much more. Keep writing.
You can email me at <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a> so we don't confuse t--------ood
Romani.

Vale
Cypria

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Subject:	Re: Toasts
From:	Nicolaus Moravius n_moravius@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:22:41 PDT

Salvete!

Publius Phillipus Varrus (whose mind wanders strange paths) wrote:

>Subject: Toasts and Hats
>
>Another query to the great minds of Nova Roma :)
>
>Toasts? Did Romans toast when they drank? I don't really mean offering a
>libation to the Gods, more of a 'A votre sante mon frere' sort of thing...
<AMPUTATIO>

- Well, I've never come across this practice in ancient Rome as a day-to-day
thing myself, Varre, but libations to other people as well as the gods at
dinners and drinking parties were apparently quite common. Martialis, in one
of his Epigrams, for example (I forget which one) says: "make a libation,
saying: 'Good luck to you, O Lares, and to you too, Caesar, best of men...'
" (the not-yet-deified Augustus, that would have been) "...these are good
words to go with good wine."

At the festival of Anna Perenna, Romans did wish each other as many years as
they could drink cups of wine, and at the Meditrionalia, addressed each
other as 'Fortunatus/Fortunata' whilst drinking old wine mixed with new.

Toasting itself is one of those many unrecorded things about daily social
practice in the ancient world, about which you can draw either of two
opposite conclusions, viz. 1) that there's no evidence of it so it wasn't
done, or 2) that it was such a commponplace nobody bothered to mention it.

Personally, I think that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of
absence, if you know what I mean. Since the Lares and absent people
obviously get libations, I don't see why (say) the genius of a drinking
partner shouldn't similarly be honoured with a drink - though the most
appropriate method in that case would be to pour the libation down the
friend's throat :-0

For what it's worth, I heard a story once that the practice of lifting the
glass in toasting originated with the crusading Templars in the 12thC., CE,
who would break bread and drink wine at dinner whilst mentally commemorating
the Last Supper. Thus they would raise their drinking-vessel in imitation of
the priest elevating the chalice during the consecration of the wine at the
Mass.

This was supposed to have developed into a sign by means of which one
Templar could recognise and greet another across a crowded taberna - so, by
extension, it became a gesture of fellowship. (Well, it's the ONLY
explanation I've ever come across).

Another apocryphal story purporting to explain the word 'toast': when King
Charles II of England (and Scotland) was taking the waters at Aquae Sulis
(Bath) he spotted a handsome woman bathing in what is now called the King's
Bath. Someone asked His Majesty how the medicinal waters agreed with him
(they're highly sulphurous, by the way). The King is said to have replied,
eyeing the lady in the bath (picture her floating pleasantly among the steam
in a wet shift, if you will):

"I like not the drink, Sir, but am much pleas'd with the toast."

(Further explanatory note: in 17thC. England, hot ale was traditionally
served with a piece of toast floating on top, and the waters at Bath
are thermal). Doubtless there was much polite tittering at such recherche
wit...

Thus the lady became 'the toast of the town'. I can't remember whether it
was Nell Gwynne or Lady Castlemaine, or some other Restoration beauty.

To drag this digression back on-topic, the notion of drinking TO someone
else, instead of pouring a libation, seems to me to have originated with the
later practice of Christians honouring Iesus in a unique way, and by
extension developing the idea that the Mass can be celebrated with the
intention of benefitting another living, named individual (in health,
usually).

OK, I know, it's rather tenuous - can anyone else do better?

Valete bene,

Vado (whose mind also wanders strange paths).


Subject:	Re: Fait Accompli
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:57:54 PDT

Salve
Congratulations, felicitations, and a couple woohoos!
Be happy.
Vale
Cypria

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Subject:	Re: Fait Accompli
From:	missmoon@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:13:36 -0500 (CDT)

On 06/11/99 08:40:07 you wrote:
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132233234213056031213038109248147208071048" >Donme--------@--------</--------;

Aren't you two the sneakiest!
Best wishes!

-- Flavia Claudia


Subject:	Re: Toasts
From:	legion6@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:59:28 -0500 (CDT)

Salve, Moravi--et salvete omnes!

As often, Vado, you have presented us with a most informative and
entertaining article! Only one small quibble, and it does not detract
from your main point...but I do like to see the ancient authors placed
in their proper context, both chronologically and socially:

>...libations to other people as well as the gods at
>dinners and drinking parties were apparently quite common. Martialis,
>in one of his Epigrams, for example (I forget which one) says: "make
>a libation, saying: 'Good luck to you, O Lares, and to you too,
>Caesar, best of men...' " (the not-yet-deified Augustus, that would
>have been) "...these are good words to go with good wine."

If Marcus Valerius Martialis were to make a libation to a living
Caesar, it would more likely have been a Flavian than a Iulio-Claudian.
He came to Rome (a fellow-Spaniard! [g]) during Nero's reign, by which
time Augustus had quite definitely joined the pantheon...and most of
his best was written under Titus and Domitian. He knew Quintilian,
Iuvenal and the younger Pliny; in other words, he was about as
Silver-Age as you can get...think Rome of the Falco novels rather than
the more-usually-presented Augustan Age or the late Republic.

>Vado (whose mind also wanders strange paths).

And glad I am of that...it means I've got good companionship on my own
peculiar excursiones! >({|;-)

Yours under the Eagles...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> M�ria Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Toasts
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:44:40 -0700

All this is from my Loeb Plautus, vol. V.