| Subject: |
Re: The Restoration of Nova Roma, Continued |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:34:05 EDT |
|
From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Salvete, omnes.
>
>In the spirit of, and indeed, as concrete steps in, the restoration of the
>status quo ante bellum, I have deleted the "Alternative News" site.
>
>Valete,
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
Just exactly what "bellum" are we "ante"???? I must have failed to
receive an awful lot of list traffic. The list goes quiet for a day or
two and suddenly there are announcements that a civil war is ending, a
valuable civil servant is resigning in disgust, an alternative mailing
list is being closed down, and order is being restored???
Just what the Hell has been going on? Where are the Praetorian cohorts
when we need them?
The last "problem" I knew of was just a 22 year-old twit making ignorant
remarks about computers and thumbing his nose at his betters.
Will somebody please explain -- inquiring citizens want to know.
Gratii
L. Sergius Australicus
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
|
| Subject: |
Time to work an acceptable solution |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:22:27 +0100 |
|
Salvete
Our nation almost died... And it is still in danger.
Peace was made with a very big effort on all sides, and many losses as well.
I'm speaking of Patricia Cassia, Marcus Minucius Audens. These men have
dedicated a big part of their time to this nation.
Tears have not stopped yet. Many more are to come, for now we must work VERY
HARD.
Nova Roma is now in a state of emmergency and its institutions are not
working according to the Constitution. This was violated in two ways (see
<a href="http://gama.inesc.pt/Lusitania" target="_top" >http://gama.inesc.pt/Lusitania</a>):
1) By the members of a so called *comitee* who I'm still not sure who they
are... They have tried to impeach the Censores illegally and tried to get
control of the Web site.
2) By the Censores and Senate, who in response to the attack got control of
the Web site and declared the end of Nova Roma illegally.
So now the situation of Nova Roma is that Censor and Senator Marcus Cassius
Julianus has absolute control over the Web site.
As you can see, this corresponds to a Web Dictatorship, which in this case
is the only possible agreement between the so called *comitee* and the
Senate/Censores.
As you can see, we can keep tearing for there are many reasons for that.
Much work to do. Much discussions, many insults. The difference is that now
these things will take a rational form is a (I hope) rational discourse.
The <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> is re-established and should remain so. I'm still
not aware of the complete state of things, but I shall be today.
Beware of this situation. Pax is not an easy task. I ask everyone
responsible for the events in the last 2 days to stay away from hostile
statements.
Another good news. The Comitia Populi are constituted.
Valete omnes
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis, Aedilis Plebis et Propraetor Lusitaniae
|
| Subject: |
Support the Senatus |
| From: |
heckifiknow@--------) |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 12:05:32 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes,
well I am not sure how to start this, and not only because English isnīt
my mothertongue....
It seems not to be an easy task to say oneīs opinion without hurting
others ( without the intention), perhaps it stems from the fact that all
who are involved in NR take it very seriously, perhaps people are simply
very touchy.
Anyway I donīt want to attack or insult anybody with what I am going to
say now, so please have a little patience with me?I donīt want to take
sides either.
Perhaps it is a bit arrogant to talk about all of this thousands of
miles away in Germany while you in the US get to see eachother at least
sometimes, but I feel that I have to state one or two things.
I think we have really a problem with communications. If I hadnīt been
subscribed to britannia list Iīd be one of the unfortunates who didnīt
even know that there was a civilwar going on.
That is impossible!!!
O.K. NR is US based but only because we( the normal people) arenīt
involved( canīt be involved) in actual governing we still have the right
to know what is going on.
I am member of NR for some months now and I said to myself to keep
quiet, being a freshman gives you no right to mingle with the oldones.
I donīt have the necesarry background info on what happened between the
people in the senate and the magistrates in the last year; and this is
the problem.
No one had the right to shut down NR without talking to ALL
citizens!!!!!
Cutting the email list was neither a good idea, that brought
communications to a near standstill!!!!
We all should think about what NR means to us!
We need the comitiae!
After all this babble I will hope that I still have some of you as
friends, I only express my opinion because care so much for NR and all
its citizens.
My latest inquieries on the matter of provinciaes was leading in the
direction of giving you some help there.
Last but not least I will use that email to call for all of us who care
about NR to offer their help to get things right again!
I, for one declare hereby that the senate and the magistrates of NR can
call me and I will glady help them in any way I can.
Giving my support " spiritually" or more real in offering my help in any
job you may see me fit to do.
PS: I post this letter on the NR list and not to the senatus or
somewhere else bcause I think we should stop being "secretive". All who
are actively particpating on the NR list, wether or not senators, should
be kept informed about what is going on.
Bene valete
Lucius Metellus
|
| Subject: |
No coup at all |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:14:01 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Restoration of Nova Roma |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:54:38 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/01/1999 11:27:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a> writes:
<< Now that <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> has been restored, I believe that
<a href="mailto:roma_tertia@--------" >roma_tertia@--------</a> no longer serves a useful purpose. I wish to join
with all Novaromani in restoring the status quo ante bellum >>
Like on Dallas years ago when the whole previous season was made into a dream
and Bobby was alive in the shower?
--Dexippus
Soaps are closer to reality than we all think!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Before I move on......... |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:59:14 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/02/1999 1:17:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a> writes:
<< I also take this opportunity to thank you once again, this time in the
venue
of the Nova Roma list, for providing the life raft for liberty. You have
done Nova Roma a great service, and you deserve the praise and gratitude of
the Senate and People. >>
Damn! Crys deserves to be DEIFIED!
Viva La Diva Crystalina!
--Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus....NOW AND FOREVER! <snap>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Time to work an acceptable solution |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:01:36 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/02/1999 5:21:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> writes:
<< Our nation almost died... And it is still in danger.
Peace was made with a very big effort on all sides, and many losses as well.
I'm speaking of Patricia Cassia, Marcus Minucius Audens. These men have
dedicated a big part of their time to this nation. >>
YOU MEAN PATRICIA CASSIA WAS A MAN? Is this what started this whole thing?
Damn...and when was someone gonna tell little ol' Dexie about it?
--Dexippus
<<Sorry Patricia...just having a little fun to soften the heartache and nurse
my hangover. Love ya lots, dear!...smooches!>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: ONElist, inter alia |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:03:49 EDT |
|
All we are saying....is give Pax a chance.....
--Johnnus Lennus and Yokus Onus
|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 06:10:15 -0700 |
|
Graecus wrote:
<Feeling menaced by an eventual unconstitutional coup d'etat, the Senate,
<BoD, and Censores got the control of the NR Web site and feeling betrayed by
<every sife, they decided to end NR as we know it.
The BoD, that had been said in the past to merely be a requirement for Tax Free Status.
Felt menaced by a coup that didn't exist, that was not unconstitutional since the late
lamented Constitution of Nova Roma does not forbid Freedom of Speech. So they seize the
means of communication (a classic coup tactic) and declare the Constitution dead, and send
elected magistrates expulsion notices.
Nova Roma Incorporated exists. And will as long as the corporations Board of Directors
want it to. "Nova Roma, the Roman Republic Reborn" seems to be lying battered somewhere
along the internet super-highway.
<Now, we must learn again how to be a true Res Publica.
We were learning how to be a true Res Publica. The U.S. republic went through a lot of
caca in its infancy. Not the thrilling stuff of the popular history books. As the whole
world knows the U.S. republic is still having mountains of troubles. Yet it has survived
223 years.
A Constitution must be lived with, worked with, through all the trials and tribulations.
A small group of people taking over a government in violation of that state's constitution
is a coup d'etat. De facto. If Nova Roma is not to be a petty dictatorship or a
corporate front, the Constitution of Nova Roma must be allowed to have its place as the
land mark we navigate by. Damage has been done. We can let the government resume Its
work. We can work at placing all these last few days in the perspective of a regrettable
family fight. Seeing what has been said, and what is being said, I do not think that is
going to happen.
Ave atque vale, Nova Roma, res publica Romana resurgens.
C. Aelius Ericius.
|
| Subject: |
Re: eGroups.com: You have been added to the novaroma eGroup. |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:32:24 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I just got this from egroups. Is this list still ongoing? And I am
willing to be civil as long as everyone else is.
Don and I have been teaching his children some lessons. One of
those lessons is respect. I have been disrespected for the better
part of my life and now I not only think I deserve respect, I demand
it! This is one of the reasons I had such a hard time with the
blatant disrespect shown the citizens of Nova Roma. I am still
seeing posts asking "Wha 'appund??".
Would any one care to explain?????????? Or do they just get to
stay in the dark?
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina (still DAMNED pissed and STILL
reconsidering her involvement with this bunch)
On 1 Jul 99, at 15:40, eGroups.com Manager wrote:
> Welcome to the reconstituted Nova Roma list! The topic is the history,
> religion and culture of ancient Rome, and organizational matters related
> to this community.
>
> List members are expected to behave civilly and stay on topic. In
> particular, members of all religions are welcome here.
>
> Your energy, ideas and friendship will help us rebuild Nova Roma. Thank
> you for joining!
>
> M. Cassius Julianus
> Patricia Cassia
Mr and Mrs Donald Meaker
ICQ# 38493770
|
| Subject: |
Re: Before I move on......... |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:34:28 -0500 |
|
On 2 Jul 99, --------:59, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
>
> << I also take this opportunity to thank you once again, this time in the
> venue
> of the Nova Roma list, for providing the life raft for liberty. You have
> done Nova Roma a great service, and you deserve the praise and gratitude
> of the Senate and People. >>
>
> Damn! Crys deserves to be DEIFIED!
>
> Viva La Diva Crystalina!
>
> --Dexippus
> Divus Maximus Extremus....NOW AND FOREVER! <snap>
Thank you Dex. SOMEONE had to keep as many people as they
could informed!
But don't I need to be dead to be deified? If I do, I would just as
soon put it off <G>.
Crys (STILL damned pissed)
Mr and Mrs Donald Meaker
ICQ# 38493770
|
| Subject: |
Re: Support the Senatus |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:38:27 -0500 |
|
On 2 Jul 99, at 12:05, Pascal Thiele wrote:
>
> PS: I post this letter on the NR list and not to the senatus or
> somewhere else bcause I think we should stop being "secretive". All who
> are actively particpating on the NR list, wether or not senators, should
> be kept informed about what is going on.
>
> Bene valete
>
> Lucius Metellus
The Christians may agree with this statement:
AMEN!!!!!!!!
Crys (grrrr)
Mr and Mrs Donald Meaker
ICQ# 38493770
|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:46:06 +0100 |
|
Salve Razenna et omnes
>The BoD, that had been said in the past to merely be a requirement for Tax
Free Status.
>Felt menaced by a coup that didn't exist, that was not unconstitutional
since the late
>lamented Constitution of Nova Roma does not forbid Freedom of Speech. So
they seize the
>means of communication (a classic coup tactic) and declare the Constitution
dead, and send
>elected magistrates expulsion notices.
>Nova Roma Incorporated exists. And will as long as the corporations Board
of Directors
>want it to. "Nova Roma, the Roman Republic Reborn" seems to be lying
battered somewhere
>along the internet super-highway.
You are right. But think from Cassius' point of view. He is a founder.
Without him no NR would exist at all. He felt menaced and panicked. His
reaction was in fact a coup d'etat, which is still having consequences. But
he thought he was saving NR from the hands of conspiracy.
>We were learning how to be a true Res Publica. The U.S. republic went
through a lot of
>caca in its infancy. Not the thrilling stuff of the popular history books.
As the whole
>world knows the U.S. republic is still having mountains of troubles. Yet
it has survived
>223 years.
>A Constitution must be lived with, worked with, through all the trials and
tribulations.
>A small group of people taking over a government in violation of that
state's constitution
>is a coup d'etat. De facto. If Nova Roma is not to be a petty
dictatorship or a
>corporate front, the Constitution of Nova Roma must be allowed to have its
place as the
>land mark we navigate by. Damage has been done. We can let the government
resume Its
>work. We can work at placing all these last few days in the perspective of
a regrettable
>family fight. Seeing what has been said, and what is being said, I do not
think that is
>going to happen.
Right... But remember that the impeachment, even if the Censores did not
form the Comitia at all, is not constitutional as well. There were
violations on both sides.
>Ave atque vale, Nova Roma, res publica Romana resurgens.
Ave Res Publica! Ave Roma!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis, et coetera
|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve, Graecus.
Thank you for your message. While it contains some characterizations with
which I disagree, your message is accurate for the most part.
The accusation that I was involved in a secret plot with Sulla and Fabius
HAS NO BASIS IN FACT! I had absolutely NO communication with Sulla, and to
my knowledge he had no part in any of this.
I see now that all of these fears about a coup rest upon the control of the
web site, which makes me the key figure in any such supposed plot. This is
quite logical, of course. Seizing control of communications is essential to
any direct action scenario. Now, given that I am a former Air Force
officer, don't you think I would have thought of that if I were part of such
a plot? But I didn't think of it, because I was not involved any attempt to
seize control of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I contemplate changing
the access codes for the site or by any means whatsoever locking out the
duly constituted authorities of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I
contemplate using the web site for any partisan political purpose or in any
way whatsoever altering the content of the web site in support of a partisan
political agenda. No one ever approached me with any such schemes, and had
anyone done so I would have immediately rejected them with indignation. I
must point out that <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> has ALWAYS been under the control
of the Cassii, to the best of my knowledge. The only exception to this that
I am aware of is, that when the Cassii were on vacation a few weeks ago,
they temporarily transferred list moderator permissions to myself... and of
all people, Audens, another alleged coup plotter! This would seem to have
been too good of an opportunity to pass up, yet it was passed up. Why, if
only because there was no such plot?
And if this plot was all so freakin' secret, how is it that the supposed
targets of the alleged plot found out about it? I used to work on "black"
projects in the Air Force. Do you think that I don't know how to keep a lid
on things?
I'm doing my best to be patient through all of this, but I have to say that
the spin that certain people have put on this borders on the paranoid
delusional. I once again call for an unconditional restoration of the
status quo ante bellum. I am still locked out of the web site. I have been
deprived of the means of carrying out my duties as Vebsitarius Maximus.
This has been done without just cause and without due process, and remains
in effect without just cause and without due process.
Vale,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
At 12:14 PM 7/2/99 +0100, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete omnes
>
>>From my investigation, I've reached the conclusion that there was no coup at
>all.
>
>The climate of frustration that was due to the delay on forming the Comitia
>resulted into an ultimatum presented publicly to the Censores, that said
>they should resign their offices if the Comitia were not established by the
>Ides of Quinctilis.
>The Censores told they had already a plan and that it had been the Tribunus
>Avidius Tullius Callidus that menaced to veto it. Callidus resigned.
>I was appointed Tribunus by the Senate. There was by then no reason to have
>a coup, for I wold not veto the plan of the Comitia.
>An unfortunate exchange of email between some magistrates provoked a false
>alarm of the part of Praetor Saevola Magister for an impeachment of the
>Censores. This is the prove that there was no conspiracy, for otherwise, the
>conspirators would have got the control of the Web site in silence. That did
>not happen, and another prove that there was no conspiracy was the complete
>disorganisation that followed the response of Censor Cassius and the Board
>of Directors (BoD).
>Feeling menaced by an eventual unconstitutional coup d'etat, the Senate,
>BoD, and Censores got the control of the NR Web site and feeling betrayed by
>every sife, they decided to end NR as we know it.
>On the other hand, having declared Nova Roma dead, the BoD justified some
>desperate actions and words on the part of some magistrates such as Curulis
>Aedilis Gangalius and Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who, being
>ellected by the people of NR, could not let NR die. As such they formed a
>regrouping party, called Roma Tertia, which kept the ellected magistracies
>except the Censores. On the other hand, the BoD formed another regrouping
>party keeping the Senate and the Censores.
>
>In my opinion all this was a big confusion, a big misunderstanding.
>Nevertheless, there is still much mistrust between the conflicting parts,
>which must be resolved. Lets work for peace.
>
>Now, the sovereignty of this nation resides on the people, who was abused by
>both parties, which - and this is the most deplorable - kept the silence or
>falsely built versions about the facts.
>
>Now, we must learn again how to be a true Res Publica. Hope that the Comitia
>Populi can help. Lets once again learn our Constitution and swear to the
>Gods not to trample it again. Lets recite it at home, before sleeping, sing
>its articles in our soul.
>
>Valete omnes
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Tribunus Plebis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Campaign 2000 is here!
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Restoration of Nova Roma, Continued |
| From: |
Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 14:42:42 GMT |
|
Salvete Omnes
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
> >
> >Salvete, omnes.
> >
> >In the spirit of, and indeed, as concrete steps in, the restoration of
>the
> >status quo ante bellum, I have deleted the "Alternative News" site.
> >
> >Valete,
> >Marcus Martianus Gangalius
> >Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
>
>Just exactly what "bellum" are we "ante"???? I must have failed to
>receive an awful lot of list traffic. The list goes quiet for a day or
>two and suddenly there are announcements that a civil war is ending, a
>valuable civil servant is resigning in disgust, an alternative mailing
>list is being closed down, and order is being restored???
>
>Just what the Hell has been going on? Where are the Praetorian cohorts
>when we need them?
>
>The last "problem" I knew of was just a 22 year-old twit making ignorant
>remarks about computers and thumbing his nose at his betters.
>
>Will somebody please explain -- inquiring citizens want to know.
>
>Gratii
>
>L. Sergius Australicus
Please let me join Sergius Australicus in expressing my confusion. The last
thing I knew of was the same 22 year old. Please explain what happened
instead of trying to push it under the rug.
Valete
Lucina Iunia Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: Time to work an acceptable solution |
| From: |
Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 15:11:50 GMT |
|
Salve Antonius Gryllus Graecus
I wanted to thank you for explaining at least some of what happened. I wish
I understood the whole business. I think the entire situation is distressing
in the extreme. May Vesta guide us towards a postive re-establishment of the
Republic.
Vale
Lucina Iunia Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: ONElist, inter alia |
| From: |
Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 15:24:24 GMT |
|
Salve
Dexippius dixit:
>All we are saying....is give Pax a chance.....
>
>--Johnnus Lennus and Yokus Onus
I like it:) Te laude, Dexippius. You are a constant breath of fresh air.
Vale
Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: About this new Republic |
| From: |
"Publius Phillipus Varrus" legate@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:26:37 -0400 |
|
I'll second these questions...apparently something serious happened and
unless one was in the inner circle one is completely in the dark!
Publius Phillipus Varrus
----- Original Message -----
From: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] About this new Republic
>
> When did roma_tertia come into play? When did everyone know about it?
Why was
> it called into play? What happened to Nova Roma?
>
>
> I'm really confused. Can someone fill me in?
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
missmoon@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:44:48 -0500 (CDT) |
|
On 07/01/99 04:31:53 you wrote:
>
>From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
>
>Salve
>Re war?
>as I have been getting the list everday I did not see a war.
>we were talking about how to make Nova Roma a better rome etc..
>it looked like we were getting somewhere.
>then all thiss WTFO
No and you wouldn't have seen it.
Like most of these stupid games, it was supposed to be kept a secret until a 7-page "indictment" of Cassius
and Palladius appeared, out of the blue, on the list, calling for their "impeachment." This had been going
on for months, behind the scenes, with the "coalition" writing the indictment, which read like the Clinton
impeachment articles. Well...7 pages, after all. Cassi and Palladius have copies of it. Now.
This was done by a "coalition of priests and magistrates" put together by Cincinnatus. Or -- at least -- with
Cincinnatus' name on it, so that he could take the heat if something went wrong, which it did. The three
of us who were made aware of it and were supposed to publicly sign it (not the same people who
drafted it) were told that we "could guess who the priests and magistrates were".
We sure could. It was supposed to have been an "open letter" that we were being asked to sign. Instead,
we were forwarded this silly "indictment". I'd post it, but it was pretty much a character assassination of
Cassius and Palladius. If Cassius wouldn't resign as Censor, he was threatened with forcible removal as
Pontifex Maximus. We front men should have caught on the minute we were told "but, this isn't a coup
d'etat!" Sure. We also should have spoken up right then and there, but we didn't. More shame to us.
If you folks think the Senate is secretive, you should have known about THESE backstage maneuvers. And
now the main perpetrators are crying that they knew nothing about anything. The plan was that Cassus and
Palladius be removed from government, that Cincinnatus would take over as sole Consul, that Sulla would
be the next Consul, and that Fabius would be his co-consul, and Gangalius would control the website and
the e-list. This has been in the works ever since before Sulla broke into the Senate boards, back when he
gleefully informed us "Just wait until the Social Wars start!" and had already picked his "Co-Consul."
The whole thing never got to the list because the coup failed before it could be posted. The "articles of
impeachment" got to Cassius and Palladius (who werent' supposed to have been informed beforehand, so
the entire enterprise would have a better chance of succeeding).
Now the perpetrators are informing us almost hourly of their innocence. Sulla even goes so far to plead
that he has no online access at home recently. (Everyone knows you can't access e-mail or the Web at
work, right?) But this has been going on much, much longer than the last few days.
How do I know? I WAS THERE, FOLKS! I was supposed to be one of the four "front men" who would
actually SIGN the "impeachment articles", thereby putting OUR names on it while Sulla, Gangalius and
Fabius sat back and protested innocence, then came forward to "save Nova Roma." It took only about an
hour for them to form a new list, a new website, and a new group called "Roma Respublica". It was really
heartwarming to see how very happy they were, but the real fun was watching two of them try to rat each
other out, claiming the other was at fault, via private e-mails to some Senators and magistrates. Oh, and
trying to convince honorable but gullible Graecus (who knew nothing about this beforehand, like almost all
of you) that they were innocent, so he'd stick up for them and lend them credibility.
Cassi and the corporate owners of the list (who are responsible and accountable to the State of Maine,
especially for the funds collected by Nova Roma) shut down the website and list temporarily in order to
try to decide what to do. I don't think it's unfair to expect that Cassi was very, very hurt and reacted
accordingly.
It was really kind of slick. And if Cassius and Palladius hadn't found out, none of us would be having this
conversation. Instead, we'd be hailing the new Triumverate. The thing is: they did this just for shits and
grins, to prove they could and to play power games.
Well, there you are. I have no stake in this because I'm outta Nova Roma as of this second. Unlike
Patricia, I'm resigning the entire shebang: Senate, priesthood, newsletter, citizenship -- and PLEEEASE
remove me immediately from this voluminous e-mail list. With the time I've spent on "crises" , I could
have has time to write another book or done something that really promotes Pagan religion. Like join the
Julian Society that manages to promote the Roman virtues and religio without a government, without
pleb/patrician class divisions and without endless political debate, with each person working on his/her
own.
-- The Senator Formerly Known As Flavia Claudia
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Publius Phillipus Varrus" legate@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:04:04 -0400 |
|
Call me crazy ( and some have ). I can certainly understand launching a coup
against the government of the REAL ancient Rome - there was power and money
to be had...
As far as I can see, being Consul of Nova Roma or controlling the web site
is nothing more than a lot of work graciously done by volunteers. Why would
I want to forcefully sieze extra work for myself ( while also garnering the
dislike of a lot of the citizenry ) ?
The less than power hungry Publius Phillipus Varrus
----- Original Message -----
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] the inside story
> Like most of these stupid games, it was supposed to be kept a secret until
a 7-page "indictment" of Cassius
> and Palladius appeared, out of the blue, on the list, calling for their
"impeachment." This had been going
> on for months, behind the scenes, with the "coalition" writing the
indictment, which read like the Clinton
> impeachment articles. Well...7 pages, after all. Cassi and Palladius have
copies of it. Now.
>
> This was done by a "coalition of priests and magistrates" put together by
Cincinnatus. Or -- at least -- with
> Cincinnatus' name on it, so that he could take the heat if something went
wrong, which it did. The three
> of us who were made aware of it and were supposed to publicly sign it (not
the same people who
> drafted it) were told that we "could guess who the priests and magistrates
were".
> We sure could. It was supposed to have been an "open letter" that we were
being asked to sign. Instead,
> we were forwarded this silly "indictment". I'd post it, but it was pretty
much a character assassination of
> Cassius and Palladius. If Cassius wouldn't resign as Censor, he was
threatened with forcible removal as
> Pontifex Maximus. We front men should have caught on the minute we were
told "but, this isn't a coup
> d'etat!" Sure. We also should have spoken up right then and there, but we
didn't. More shame to us.
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:24:15 -0400 |
|
Salvete Quirites
I regret that the situation has made it necessary to be reactive rather than
proactive. Hopefully Nova Roma will return and continue on the path outlined
in the Constitution and the Declaration of the New Rome.
<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/declaration_novaroma.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/declaration_novaroma.html</a>
"We, the Senate and People of New Rome, in order to restore the foundations
of Western Civilization, declare the founding of Nova Roma as a soverign
Nation. We manifest Nova Roma as an independent world nation and republic,
with its own legal constitution and lawful government, with all
international rights and responsibilities that such status carries. "
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>Salve, Graecus.
>
>Thank you for your message. While it contains some characterizations with
>which I disagree, your message is accurate for the most part.
>
>The accusation that I was involved in a secret plot with Sulla and Fabius
>HAS NO BASIS IN FACT! I had absolutely NO communication with Sulla, and to
>my knowledge he had no part in any of this.
>
>I see now that all of these fears about a coup rest upon the control of the
>web site, which makes me the key figure in any such supposed plot. This is
>quite logical, of course. Seizing control of communications is essential
to
>any direct action scenario. Now, given that I am a former Air Force
>officer, don't you think I would have thought of that if I were part of
such
>a plot? But I didn't think of it, because I was not involved any attempt
to
>seize control of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I contemplate changing
>the access codes for the site or by any means whatsoever locking out the
>duly constituted authorities of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I
>contemplate using the web site for any partisan political purpose or in any
>way whatsoever altering the content of the web site in support of a
partisan
>political agenda. No one ever approached me with any such schemes, and had
>anyone done so I would have immediately rejected them with indignation. I
>must point out that <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> has ALWAYS been under the control
>of the Cassii, to the best of my knowledge. The only exception to this
that
>I am aware of is, that when the Cassii were on vacation a few weeks ago,
>they temporarily transferred list moderator permissions to myself... and of
>all people, Audens, another alleged coup plotter! This would seem to have
>been too good of an opportunity to pass up, yet it was passed up. Why, if
>only because there was no such plot?
>
Lucius Equitius:
Now I call for the return of the necessary tools for the webmaster to do his
appointed duty.
>And if this plot was all so freakin' secret, how is it that the supposed
>targets of the alleged plot found out about it? I used to work on "black"
>projects in the Air Force. Do you think that I don't know how to keep a
lid
>on things?
>
>I'm doing my best to be patient through all of this, but I have to say that
>the spin that certain people have put on this borders on the paranoid
>delusional. I once again call for an unconditional restoration of the
>status quo ante bellum. I am still locked out of the web site. I have been
>deprived of the means of carrying out my duties as Vebsitarius Maximus.
>This has been done without just cause and without due process, and remains
>in effect without just cause and without due process.
>
>Vale,
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
Lucius Equitius:
I have only one thing to add, Curule Aedile Marcus Martianus Gangalius was
appointed to be webmaster by the Elected Conules, Decius Iunius Palladius
and myself. I have vetoed the action of any change. Restore the website and
it's functions. I'll pay for it if that is what needs to be done for us to
work constitutionally.
>>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>>Salvete omnes
>>
>>>From my investigation, I've reached the conclusion that there was no coup
at
>>all.
>>
Lucius Equitius:
Have you bothered to look at the Main Page of the Website?
What do you call that?
>>The climate of frustration that was due to the delay on forming the
Comitia
>>resulted into an ultimatum presented publicly to the Censores, that said
>>they should resign their offices if the Comitia were not established by
the
>>Ides of Quinctilis.
Lucius Equitius:
This was only being considered, for if it had been presented publicly the
citizens would not be asking what is going on, would they?
>>An unfortunate exchange of email between some magistrates provoked a false
>>alarm of the part of Praetor Saevola Magister for an impeachment of the
>>Censores. This is the prove that there was no conspiracy, for otherwise,
the
>>conspirators would have got the control of the Web site in silence. That
did
>>not happen, and another prove that there was no conspiracy was the
complete
>>disorganisation that followed the response of Censor Cassius and the Board
>>of Directors (BoD).
Lucius Equitius:
Which is Not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or the website and has
caused the resignation and termination of citizenship of Quaestor Marcus
Minucius Audens.
>>Feeling menaced by an eventual unconstitutional coup d'etat, the Senate,
>>BoD, and Censores got the control of the NR Web site and feeling betrayed
by
>>every sife, they decided to end NR as we know it.
Lucius Equitius;
True, but it was not both Censores as Decius Iunius Palladius has been
locked out of the site too.
>>On the other hand, having declared Nova Roma dead, the BoD justified some
>>desperate actions and words on the part of some magistrates such as
Curulis
>>Aedilis Gangalius and Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who, being
>>ellected by the people of NR, could not let NR die. As such they formed a
>>regrouping party, called Roma Tertia, which kept the ellected magistracies
>>except the Censores. On the other hand, the BoD formed another regrouping
>>party keeping the Senate and the Censores.
>>
Lucius Equitius;
This is false, as Consul of Nova Roma, I had no need to form any "regrouping
party, called Roma Tertia". Let's get this straight once and for all, Decius
Iunius Palladius and Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus ARE THE CONSULES of Nova
Roma. I invite you all to read the CONSTITUTION!
Bookmark it. <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html</a>
Print up a copy for youself ,don't be like the average American who knows or
cares little for their constitution.
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:43:03 +0100 |
|
Salvete Flavia Claudia omnes
For now, NR is still living, and that is very good taking into consideration
the dimension of the recent events. Cassius and Gangalius agreed to have
direct talks.
An inquiry is now running to find the promoters of the illegal impeachment.
Those who are to be found guilty shall be condemned accordingly, although
this can only happen upon the return of NR to the Constitutional status. No
summary trials shall be made. Justice shall be put to work according with
the Constitution.
Until now there is evidence that there was a movement to force the Censores
to resign their offices if they did not implement the Comitia Populi. This
you all know because it was PUBLICLY brought to the list.
As you know, Cassius answered it saying that during the Roman days a
solution was found and that Avidius Tullius Callidus, Tribunus Plebis, was
not there anymore to veto the division of tribes and centuries. I, Antonius
Gryllus Graecus was appointed Tribunus in his place. Sulla and me had a
workable plan for the division with which the Censores agreed. So, I would
not veto the plan, and Sulla would be stupid if he would move against the
Censores when he knew the Censores were implementing his own plan, don't you
think? In fact everyone would be stupid if going against the Censores for
then it would be to go against the Comitia.
Nevertheless, someone was stupid. Now the question is WHO. Who gave the
order to Praetor Saevola Magister in order to gather the magistrates for the
impeachment action? WHO?
My point is that those who supported the first plan to force the Comitia may
be different from those who made the plot on June 30th.
I urge Praetor Saevola Magister to speak publicly and tell everything he
knows about the plot.
Flavia Claudia, this is not being easy for NR... Please don't leave. NR
needs your help.
Valete omnes
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis
|
| Subject: |
Meditations |
| From: |
"Kevin Martin" kxmart7@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:44:57 -0600 |
|
|
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:01:48 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Varrus wrote
>Call me crazy ( and some have ). I can certainly understand launching a
coup
>against the government of the REAL ancient Rome - there was power and
money
>to be had...
>As far as I can see, being Consul of Nova Roma or controlling the web site
>is nothing more than a lot of work graciously done by volunteers. Why
would
>I want to forcefully sieze extra work for myself ( while also garnering
the
>dislike of a lot of the citizenry ) ?
Exactly! Hear Hear!
This whole mess has come about because of paranoid fears
- among some of us so-called "conspirators", that the Censors were
NEVER going to set up the Comitia so that NR would be forever run by the
Senate
- and on the other side, from some of the Censors' side, the
paranoid fears expressed by Flavia Claudia's mail that people were being
asked to front for a conspiracy to get rid of the Founders.
Let's forget the paranoia and get on with constituting the Comitia and
running NR according to its Constitution. If we work by the rules, we don't
need to fear each other.
Valete
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:37:08 -0400 |
|
Salvete, Quirites
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>No and you wouldn't have seen it.
>Like most of these stupid games, it was supposed to be kept a secret until
a 7-page "indictment" of Cassius and Palladius appeared, out of the blue, on
the list, calling for their "impeachment." This had been going on for
months, behind the scenes, with the "coalition" writing the indictment,
which read like the Clinton
impeachment articles. Well...7 pages, after all. Cassi and Palladius have
copies of it. Now.
Lucius Equitius: Oh yes, It would have been posted if it came to that. And I
sent a copy to Palladius myself as he requested.
>This was done by a "coalition of priests and magistrates" put together by
Cincinnatus. Or -- at least -- with Cincinnatus' name on it, so that he
could take the heat if something went wrong, which it did. The three of us
who were made aware of it and were supposed to publicly sign it (not the
same people who drafted it)
Lucius Equitius: Of course I would have to Know about it. WHY is it so hard
for you all to realize that I am an ELECTED CONSUL. These charges were being
considered against 'lesser magistrates', Censores.
>were told that we "could guess who the priests and magistrates were".
We sure could. It was supposed to have been an "open letter" that we were
being asked to sign. Instead, we were forwarded this silly "indictment". I'd
post it, but it was pretty much a character assassination of Cassius and
Palladius.
Lucius Equitius: This is a false characterization. Anyone who wants a copy
ask and you can see for yourself.
>If Cassius wouldn't resign as Censor, he was threatened with forcible
removal as Pontifex Maximus.
Lucius Equitius: This charge against the Pontifex Maximus is/was
unconstitutional and was not considered only mistakenly included in a draft.
The College Pontificium has it's own place in the Constitution.
>We front men should have caught on the minute we were told "but, this isn't
a coup d'etat!" Sure. We also should have spoken up right then and there,
but we didn't. More shame to us.
Lucius Equitius: How could it be a "coup d'etat" if a Consul ( the other
Consul is also a Censor), a Praetor Urbanus, Quaestores, Aediles and
Senatores who are not a named defendants are considering what to do about
magistrates who have failed in their Constitutionally defined duties???
>If you folks think the Senate is secretive, you should have known about
THESE backstage maneuvers. And now the main perpetrators are crying that
they knew nothing about anything. The plan was that Cassus and Palladius be
removed from government, that Cincinnatus would take over as sole Consul,
Lucius Equitius: There were not charges considered to take the Office of
Consul from Decius Iunius Palladius, so this is a non sequitor.
>that Sulla would be the next Consul, and that Fabius would be his
co-consul,
Lucius Equitius: as per the Constitution this is not so.
"Article V: The Senate
8.Should both Consuls leave office at the same time in mid-term, the Senate
shall appoint an Interrex, who shall serve for no more than thirty days,
during which time he or she shall organize an election to replace the
missing Consul(s). During this time the Interrex shall have all the powers
and responsibilities of the Consul."
So, a Consul Suffex would have to be ELECTED by the Tribes!
>and Gangalius would control the website and the e-list. This has been in
the works ever since before Sulla broke into the Senate boards, back when he
gleefully informed us "Just wait until the Social Wars start!" and had
already picked his "Co-Consul."
Lucius Equitius: Aedile M Martianus already was webmaster.
>
>The whole thing never got to the list because the coup failed before it
could be posted. The "articles of impeachment" got to Cassius and Palladius
(who werent' supposed to have been informed beforehand, so the entire
enterprise would have a better chance of succeeding).
Lucius Equitius: At least until a rational decision had been reached as to
what would best be done to see that Nova Roma was running in accord with the
Constitution.
>
>Now the perpetrators are informing us almost hourly of their innocence.
Sulla even goes so far to plead that he has no online access at home
recently. (Everyone knows you can't access e-mail or the Web at work,
right?) But this has been going on much, much longer than the last few days.
Lucius Equitius: What Sulla knows or does not know and weather he is being
honest one should judge from his past history. In any case he received
nothing directly from me.
>
>How do I know? I WAS THERE, FOLKS!
Lucius Equitius: Because, I had sent you as well as Quaestor Audens and
Praetor Urbanus Marcus Mucius a copy to "think about it".
> I was supposed to be one of the four "front men" who would actually SIGN
the "impeachment articles",
Lucius Equitius: No one was asked to sign anything, only to think about it.
>thereby putting OUR names on it while Sulla, Gangalius and Fabius sat back
and protested innocence, then came forward to "save Nova Roma." It took
only about an hour for them to form a new list, a new website, and a new
group called "Roma Respublica".
Lucius Equitius: This was done after the onelist was taken down for over 18
hrs. and the main page 'informed' the worlf that Nova Roma had "decided to
shut down Nova Roma's political system. "
>It was really heartwarming to see how very happy they were, but the real
fun was watching two of them try to rat each other out, claiming the other
was at fault, via private e-mails to some Senators and magistrates. Oh, and
trying to convince honorable but gullible Graecus (who knew nothing about
thisbeforehand, like almost all of you) that they were innocent, so he'd
stick up for them and lend them credibility.
>
>Cassi and the corporate owners of the list (who are responsible and
accountable to the State of Maine, especially for the funds collected by
Nova Roma) shut down the website and list temporarily in order to try to
decide what to do. I don't think it's unfair to expect that Cassi was very,
very hurt and reacted
accordingly.
Lucius Equitius: NOW this was the Coup against the elected and duly
appointed Govenment!
>It was really kind of slick. And if Cassius and Palladius hadn't found out,
none of us would be having this conversation. Instead, we'd be hailing the
new Triumverate. The thing is: they did this just for shits and grins, to
prove they could and to play power games.
Lucius Equitius: No, everyone is tired of not having their magistrates able
to bring legislation before the tribes.
>Well, there you are. I have no stake in this because I'm outta Nova Roma as
of this second. Unlike Patricia, I'm resigning the entire shebang: Senate,
priesthood, newsletter, citizenship -- and PLEEEASE remove me immediately
from this voluminous e-mail list. With the time I've spent on "crises" , I
could have has time to write another book or done something that really
promotes Pagan religion. Like join the Julian Society that manages to
promote the Roman virtues and religio without a government, without
pleb/patrician class divisions and without endless political debate, with
each person working on his/her own.
>>-- The Senator Formerly Known As Flavia Claudia
Lucius Equitius: Now this was a "Parthian shot"!
>
Lucius Equitius: While I'm sorry for this as for all those who decide to
leave, we will carry on. Now that it is known that there is a "board of
directors " who control the wesite, this can be brought into alignment with
the Constitutional Government.
I ask that the members of the Board of directors and the Nova Roma Inc.
Bylaws be posted to the Main page of the Nova Roma webpage.
I ask that if the Comitia Populi is finished I too be posted.
Valete, Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
|
| Subject: |
Correspondence |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:51:45 +0100 |
|
Salvete
I have all correspondence that lead to this state of affairs in my
possession. Praetor Saevola Magister sent it promptly to me.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:32:35 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve, Flavia Claudia.
You have misjudged me. I also think you are acting rashly in resigning your
offices and citizenship, and I ask you to reconsider. Nova Roma would be
the poorer for it, and among other things, I would miss you're biting wit.
Vale,
Martianus
At 10:44 AM 7/2/99 -0500, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a> wrote:
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
>On 07/01/99 04:31:53 you wrote:
>>
>>From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
>>
>>Salve
>>Re war?
>>as I have been getting the list everday I did not see a war.
>>we were talking about how to make Nova Roma a better rome etc..
>>it looked like we were getting somewhere.
>>then all thiss WTFO
>
>No and you wouldn't have seen it.
>
>Like most of these stupid games, it was supposed to be kept a secret until
a 7-page "indictment" of Cassius
>and Palladius appeared, out of the blue, on the list, calling for their
"impeachment." This had been going
>on for months, behind the scenes, with the "coalition" writing the
indictment, which read like the Clinton
>impeachment articles. Well...7 pages, after all. Cassi and Palladius have
copies of it. Now.
>
>This was done by a "coalition of priests and magistrates" put together by
Cincinnatus. Or -- at least -- with
>Cincinnatus' name on it, so that he could take the heat if something went
wrong, which it did. The three
>of us who were made aware of it and were supposed to publicly sign it (not
the same people who
>drafted it) were told that we "could guess who the priests and magistrates
were".
>We sure could. It was supposed to have been an "open letter" that we were
being asked to sign. Instead,
>we were forwarded this silly "indictment". I'd post it, but it was pretty
much a character assassination of
>Cassius and Palladius. If Cassius wouldn't resign as Censor, he was
threatened with forcible removal as
>Pontifex Maximus. We front men should have caught on the minute we were
told "but, this isn't a coup
>d'etat!" Sure. We also should have spoken up right then and there, but we
didn't. More shame to us.
>
>If you folks think the Senate is secretive, you should have known about
THESE backstage maneuvers. And
>now the main perpetrators are crying that they knew nothing about anything.
The plan was that Cassus and
>Palladius be removed from government, that Cincinnatus would take over as
sole Consul, that Sulla would
>be the next Consul, and that Fabius would be his co-consul, and Gangalius
would control the website and
>the e-list. This has been in the works ever since before Sulla broke into
the Senate boards, back when he
>gleefully informed us "Just wait until the Social Wars start!" and had
already picked his "Co-Consul."
>
>The whole thing never got to the list because the coup failed before it
could be posted. The "articles of
>impeachment" got to Cassius and Palladius (who werent' supposed to have
been informed beforehand, so
>the entire enterprise would have a better chance of succeeding).
>
>Now the perpetrators are informing us almost hourly of their innocence.
Sulla even goes so far to plead
>that he has no online access at home recently. (Everyone knows you can't
access e-mail or the Web at
>work, right?) But this has been going on much, much longer than the last
few days.
>
>How do I know? I WAS THERE, FOLKS! I was supposed to be one of the four
"front men" who would
>actually SIGN the "impeachment articles", thereby putting OUR names on it
while Sulla, Gangalius and
>Fabius sat back and protested innocence, then came forward to "save Nova
Roma." It took only about an
>hour for them to form a new list, a new website, and a new group called
"Roma Respublica". It was really
>heartwarming to see how very happy they were, but the real fun was watching
two of them try to rat each
>other out, claiming the other was at fault, via private e-mails to some
Senators and magistrates. Oh, and
>trying to convince honorable but gullible Graecus (who knew nothing about
this beforehand, like almost all
>of you) that they were innocent, so he'd stick up for them and lend them
credibility.
>
>Cassi and the corporate owners of the list (who are responsible and
accountable to the State of Maine,
>especially for the funds collected by Nova Roma) shut down the website and
list temporarily in order to
>try to decide what to do. I don't think it's unfair to expect that Cassi
was very, very hurt and reacted
>accordingly.
>
>It was really kind of slick. And if Cassius and Palladius hadn't found out,
none of us would be having this
>conversation. Instead, we'd be hailing the new Triumverate. The thing is:
they did this just for shits and
>grins, to prove they could and to play power games.
>
>Well, there you are. I have no stake in this because I'm outta Nova Roma as
of this second. Unlike
>Patricia, I'm resigning the entire shebang: Senate, priesthood, newsletter,
citizenship -- and PLEEEASE
>remove me immediately from this voluminous e-mail list. With the time I've
spent on "crises" , I could
>have has time to write another book or done something that really promotes
Pagan religion. Like join the
>Julian Society that manages to promote the Roman virtues and religio
without a government, without
>pleb/patrician class divisions and without endless political debate, with
each person working on his/her
>own.
>
>-- The Senator Formerly Known As Flavia Claudia
>
>
>
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
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The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:39:15 +0100 |
|
Salvete
>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
>Salve, Flavia Claudia.
>
>You have misjudged me. I also think you are acting rashly in resigning
your
>offices and citizenship, and I ask you to reconsider. Nova Roma would be
>the poorer for it, and among other things, I would miss you're biting wit.
Yes she is misjudging Gangalius. NOT A SINGLE LETTER after 16th July is from
or to him. Gangalius is a brave magistrate, not a traitor.
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis
|
| Subject: |
My conclusions.. |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:41:52 +0100 |
|
Salve
Unfourtunately I have to go for weekend...
My conclusions are: everyone is innocent for intentions were good on both
sides.
So... Lets get back to work! Ave Roma!
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis et coetera
P.S. Please someone tell Audens that we want him back...
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Romans in Chicago |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:00:58 EDT |
|
I became a citizen a couple of months ago, and would really like to
be active in Nova Roma. Are there any Nova Romans in the Chicago or Great
Lakes area I could talk to (and pos. plan activities with)?
Vale,
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Re: My conclusions.. |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) |
|
OH, WHAT A WHITEWASH! I want to know who was on the grassy knoll!
Martianus
At 08:41 PM 7/2/99 +0100, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salve
>
>Unfourtunately I have to go for weekend...
>My conclusions are: everyone is innocent for intentions were good on both
>sides.
>
>So... Lets get back to work! Ave Roma!
>
>Valete
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Tribunus Plebis et coetera
>
>P.S. Please someone tell Audens that we want him back...
>
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius
|
| Subject: |
Meae sententiae de rerum statu |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:06:56 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes
Having read Claudia's post re: the inside story and Graecus' conclusions,
I'm still confused about what happened. This is what I know (with some
questions admixed):
1. To my knowledge, the Nova Roma Corporation was created to serve the
interests of Nova Roma the micronation. Whenever I sent money to Nova Roma
and bought things in the Macellum, I did so to support Nova Roma the
micronation in furthering the goals indicated in the constitution and
declaratons on the website. I care nothing for the Nova Roma Corporation,
except as an instrument for furthering said goals, particularly in holding
US funds for the micronation in a tax-exempt status.
-Question to Nova Roma Corp. insiders: did you ever get tax-exempt status?
Are you going to instruct donors how to claim donations as deductions? If
not, why not?
-Another question to NRC: are you willing to turn over the contents of the
treasury, however small they may be, to the designated agent(s) of a new
senate, formed under the leadership of our elected consuls? I ask this in
an attempt to determine your intentions, that is, honorable or not.
2. As far as guilt and innocence are concerned, it is impossible for me or
anyone else uninvolved in this week's murky events to figure out exactly who
did exactly what. You can bet your _____ that I'm interested in knowing who
did what, but I fully recognize that I'll only know what the parties reveal
to me, directly, to the list, or in a forwarded message.
-Question to all senators: who voted to end Nova Roma's political
institutions? Before you answer, I should say that, as far as I'm
concerned, any senator who so voted resigned his/her seat in doing so.
-Another question, to those former senators: if Nova Roma was failing so
badly that you had to kill her, why didn't you appeal to the citizens for
help?
If we ever do have the various comitia formed, I'll participate. And I
cannot be the only one who wants a formal investigation into this week's
events.
-Open question: who would conduct such an investigation?
I would think that M Mucius Scaevola Magister could answer that question.
He is Praetor Urbanus, knows a lot about Roman law, and has some
correspondence in hand that points the way to the beginning and end of these
things.
-Marce Muci, could you investigate these events, for the purpose of
prosecuting guilty parties before functional comitia (centuriata?)
3. In order to proceed, even with prosecuting perpetrator(s) of this mess,
we would need to have functioning comitia.
4. Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus and Decius Iunius Palladius were popularly
elected to the position of consul. They are our Consules, our senior
magistrates. Palladius is, fortunately, also, a censor, and thus able under
the battered constitution to form comitia. I would be most grateful to
these two Romans if they could manage to pick up the pieces and move us
forward. Please, Consules, lead us.
5. What I can do: is perhaps not enough, but I have ideas on laws to draft
and submit to magistrates for voting in the comitia. One law that I have in
mind will deal with intercessio, or the veto power of magistrates. My law
will aim to prevent a secret hostage situation from developing as did in the
case of Callidus, which impasse, it seems, has led us to this desperate,
shitty place.
6. Secrecy does not work for Nova Roma. The events of this week, indeed of
this year thus far, prove it.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nova Romans in Chicago |
| From: |
Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:25:31 GMT |
|
Salve
I'm in north central Indiana
Vale
Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Merulli de rerum statu Sententiae |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:33:51 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
G. Marius Merullus writes, inter alia,
> ... And I cannot be the only one who wants a formal investigation into
this week's
>events.
>-Open question: who would conduct such an investigation?
>I would think that M Mucius Scaevola Magister could answer that question.
>-Marce Muci, could you investigate these events, for the purpose of
>prosecuting guilty parties before functional comitia (centuriata?)
Regrettably, this would be inappropriate since (a) I was involved in the
"impeachment discussion" and (b) one of the early acts of the Board of
Directors in the crisis phase was to send me a letter expelling me from NR.
"Nemo iudex in causa sua", no-one can be a judge is his own cause, is an
old rule of roman law and one of the foundations of modern law.
However, I do have a near-complete set of emails of the "impeachment"
discussions, (which started from the PUBLIC arguments, on the e-list, about
the priority which should be given to forming the Comitia). I have
forwarded the lot to A Gryllus Graecus for his investigations and am quite
happy to copy them either to anyone else who asks, or (if it seems
desirable) to the main list. Citizens will then be able to make up their
own minds how plausible the account given of these events by Flavia Claudia
is.
My own feeling is that we got into deep shit through some paranoia on both
sides; and that Flavia Claudia's account is still trapped in the paranoid
fantasy. Graecus' conclusion that both sides had honest intentions may
sound anodyne but has a pretty fair degree of truth in it.
Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:50:26 -0700 |
|
Thank you for your statement. I have not been in communication with anyone!
I only have Net access at work. During the past 3 weeks I have been in
correspondence with Cassius privately and I knew the Comitia was basically
complete! I have had NO role whatsoever in what has occurred. Hell I still
dont know what really went down despite getting information from various
individuals.
May G-d Save the Res Publica!
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Cc: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] No coup at all
> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
> Salve, Graecus.
>
> Thank you for your message. While it contains some characterizations with
> which I disagree, your message is accurate for the most part.
>
> The accusation that I was involved in a secret plot with Sulla and Fabius
> HAS NO BASIS IN FACT! I had absolutely NO communication with Sulla, and
to
> my knowledge he had no part in any of this.
>
> I see now that all of these fears about a coup rest upon the control of
the
> web site, which makes me the key figure in any such supposed plot. This
is
> quite logical, of course. Seizing control of communications is essential
to
> any direct action scenario. Now, given that I am a former Air Force
> officer, don't you think I would have thought of that if I were part of
such
> a plot? But I didn't think of it, because I was not involved any attempt
to
> seize control of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I contemplate changing
> the access codes for the site or by any means whatsoever locking out the
> duly constituted authorities of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I
> contemplate using the web site for any partisan political purpose or in
any
> way whatsoever altering the content of the web site in support of a
partisan
> political agenda. No one ever approached me with any such schemes, and
had
> anyone done so I would have immediately rejected them with indignation. I
> must point out that <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> has ALWAYS been under the control
> of the Cassii, to the best of my knowledge. The only exception to this
that
> I am aware of is, that when the Cassii were on vacation a few weeks ago,
> they temporarily transferred list moderator permissions to myself... and
of
> all people, Audens, another alleged coup plotter! This would seem to have
> been too good of an opportunity to pass up, yet it was passed up. Why, if
> only because there was no such plot?
>
> And if this plot was all so freakin' secret, how is it that the supposed
> targets of the alleged plot found out about it? I used to work on "black"
> projects in the Air Force. Do you think that I don't know how to keep a
lid
> on things?
>
> I'm doing my best to be patient through all of this, but I have to say
that
> the spin that certain people have put on this borders on the paranoid
> delusional. I once again call for an unconditional restoration of the
> status quo ante bellum. I am still locked out of the web site. I have
been
> deprived of the means of carrying out my duties as Vebsitarius Maximus.
> This has been done without just cause and without due process, and remains
> in effect without just cause and without due process.
>
> Vale,
> Marcus Martianus Gangalius
> Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
>
>
> At 12:14 PM 7/2/99 +0100, Antonio Grilo wrote:
> >From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
> >
> >Salvete omnes
> >
> >>From my investigation, I've reached the conclusion that there was no
coup at
> >all.
> >
> >The climate of frustration that was due to the delay on forming the
Comitia
> >resulted into an ultimatum presented publicly to the Censores, that said
> >they should resign their offices if the Comitia were not established by
the
> >Ides of Quinctilis.
> >The Censores told they had already a plan and that it had been the
Tribunus
> >Avidius Tullius Callidus that menaced to veto it. Callidus resigned.
> >I was appointed Tribunus by the Senate. There was by then no reason to
have
> >a coup, for I wold not veto the plan of the Comitia.
> >An unfortunate exchange of email between some magistrates provoked a
false
> >alarm of the part of Praetor Saevola Magister for an impeachment of the
> >Censores. This is the prove that there was no conspiracy, for otherwise,
the
> >conspirators would have got the control of the Web site in silence. That
did
> >not happen, and another prove that there was no conspiracy was the
complete
> >disorganisation that followed the response of Censor Cassius and the
Board
> >of Directors (BoD).
> >Feeling menaced by an eventual unconstitutional coup d'etat, the Senate,
> >BoD, and Censores got the control of the NR Web site and feeling betrayed
by
> >every sife, they decided to end NR as we know it.
> >On the other hand, having declared Nova Roma dead, the BoD justified some
> >desperate actions and words on the part of some magistrates such as
Curulis
> >Aedilis Gangalius and Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who, being
> >ellected by the people of NR, could not let NR die. As such they formed a
> >regrouping party, called Roma Tertia, which kept the ellected
magistracies
> >except the Censores. On the other hand, the BoD formed another regrouping
> >party keeping the Senate and the Censores.
> >
> >In my opinion all this was a big confusion, a big misunderstanding.
> >Nevertheless, there is still much mistrust between the conflicting parts,
> >which must be resolved. Lets work for peace.
> >
> >Now, the sovereignty of this nation resides on the people, who was abused
by
> >both parties, which - and this is the most deplorable - kept the silence
or
> >falsely built versions about the facts.
> >
> >Now, we must learn again how to be a true Res Publica. Hope that the
Comitia
> >Populi can help. Lets once again learn our Constitution and swear to the
> >Gods not to trample it again. Lets recite it at home, before sleeping, si
ng
> >its articles in our soul.
> >
> >Valete omnes
> >
> >Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> >Tribunus Plebis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------
> Tom and Gail Gangale
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
> <a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
> Mars Society California
> The Martian Time Web Site
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|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:02:49 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] the inside story
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
> On 07/01/99 04:31:53 you wrote:
> >
> >From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
> >
> >Salve
> >Re war?
> >as I have been getting the list everday I did not see a war.
> >we were talking about how to make Nova Roma a better rome etc..
> >it looked like we were getting somewhere.
> >then all thiss WTFO
>
> No and you wouldn't have seen it.
>
> Like most of these stupid games, it was supposed to be kept a secret until
a 7-page "indictment" of Cassius
> and Palladius appeared, out of the blue, on the list, calling for their
"impeachment." This had been going
> on for months, behind the scenes, with the "coalition" writing the
indictment, which read like the Clinton
> impeachment articles. Well...7 pages, after all. Cassi and Palladius have
copies of it. Now.
>
> This was done by a "coalition of priests and magistrates" put together by
Cincinnatus. Or -- at least -- with
> Cincinnatus' name on it, so that he could take the heat if something went
wrong, which it did. The three
> of us who were made aware of it and were supposed to publicly sign it (not
the same people who
> drafted it) were told that we "could guess who the priests and magistrates
were".
> We sure could. It was supposed to have been an "open letter" that we were
being asked to sign. Instead,
> we were forwarded this silly "indictment". I'd post it, but it was pretty
much a character assassination of
> Cassius and Palladius. If Cassius wouldn't resign as Censor, he was
threatened with forcible removal as
> Pontifex Maximus. We front men should have caught on the minute we were
told "but, this isn't a coup
> d'etat!" Sure. We also should have spoken up right then and there, but we
didn't. More shame to us.
>
> If you folks think the Senate is secretive, you should have known about
THESE backstage maneuvers. And
> now the main perpetrators are crying that they knew nothing about
anything. The plan was that Cassus and
> Palladius be removed from government, that Cincinnatus would take over as
sole Consul, that Sulla would
> be the next Consul, and that Fabius would be his co-consul, and Gangalius
would control the website and
> the e-list. This has been in the works ever since before Sulla broke into
the Senate boards, back when he
> gleefully informed us "Just wait until the Social Wars start!" and had
already picked his "Co-Consul."
How funny talk about conspiracy theories....You are the best Flavia! Gotta
love ya! Everyone who I have talked to knows that I am NOT running for
office this year! Geez...talk about blaming someone who has done nothing in
this. But hey! what can we say, this came from Claudia!
> The whole thing never got to the list because the coup failed before it
could be posted. The "articles of
> impeachment" got to Cassius and Palladius (who werent' supposed to have
been informed beforehand, so
> the entire enterprise would have a better chance of succeeding).
>
> Now the perpetrators are informing us almost hourly of their innocence.
Sulla even goes so far to plead
> that he has no online access at home recently. (Everyone knows you can't
access e-mail or the Web at
> work, right?) But this has been going on much, much longer than the last
few days.
Yep...just at work, I work between 3:45 pm and 12:15 am Wed through Sunday,
Claudia! Check my e-mails they are all between those times. At Earthlink,
we can get personal e-mail and browse but we cannot chat. Hence I have not
been in the Taverna for any reason. Earthlink has a zero tolerance policy.
Hence my activty has been limited to just e-mail. :)
> How do I know? I WAS THERE, FOLKS! I was supposed to be one of the four
"front men" who would
> actually SIGN the "impeachment articles", thereby putting OUR names on it
while Sulla, Gangalius and
> Fabius sat back and protested innocence, then came forward to "save Nova
Roma." It took only about an
> hour for them to form a new list, a new website, and a new group called
"Roma Respublica". It was really
> heartwarming to see how very happy they were, but the real fun was
watching two of them try to rat each
> other out, claiming the other was at fault, via private e-mails to some
Senators and magistrates. Oh, and
> trying to convince honorable but gullible Graecus (who knew nothing about
this beforehand, like almost all
> of you) that they were innocent, so he'd stick up for them and lend them
credibility.
Oh how funny I have never created a new chatroom or new NR! Claudia why
dont you take your Conspiracy theories and go home.....and leave the lies to
someone better..... :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
> Cassi and the corporate owners of the list (who are responsible and
accountable to the State of Maine,
> especially for the funds collected by Nova Roma) shut down the website and
list temporarily in order to
> try to decide what to do. I don't think it's unfair to expect that Cassi
was very, very hurt and reacted
> accordingly.
>
> It was really kind of slick. And if Cassius and Palladius hadn't found
out, none of us would be having this
> conversation. Instead, we'd be hailing the new Triumverate. The thing is:
they did this just for shits and
> grins, to prove they could and to play power games.
>
> Well, there you are. I have no stake in this because I'm outta Nova Roma
as of this second. Unlike
> Patricia, I'm resigning the entire shebang: Senate, priesthood,
newsletter, citizenship -- and PLEEEASE
> remove me immediately from this voluminous e-mail list. With the time I've
spent on "crises" , I could
> have has time to write another book or done something that really promotes
Pagan religion. Like join the
> Julian Society that manages to promote the Roman virtues and religio
without a government, without
> pleb/patrician class divisions and without endless political debate, with
each person working on his/her
> own.
>
> -- The Senator Formerly Known As Flavia Claudia
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: No coup at all |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:04:33 -0700 |
|
Thank you Consul Equitius, I hope and pray for the same thing.
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] No coup at all
> From: "Lucius" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Quirites
>
> I regret that the situation has made it necessary to be reactive rather
than
> proactive. Hopefully Nova Roma will return and continue on the path
outlined
> in the Constitution and the Declaration of the New Rome.
>
> <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/declaration_novaroma.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/declaration_novaroma.html</a>
> "We, the Senate and People of New Rome, in order to restore the
foundations
> of Western Civilization, declare the founding of Nova Roma as a soverign
> Nation. We manifest Nova Roma as an independent world nation and republic,
> with its own legal constitution and lawful government, with all
> international rights and responsibilities that such status carries. "
>
>
>
> >From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
> >Salve, Graecus.
> >
> >Thank you for your message. While it contains some characterizations
with
> >which I disagree, your message is accurate for the most part.
> >
> >The accusation that I was involved in a secret plot with Sulla and Fabius
> >HAS NO BASIS IN FACT! I had absolutely NO communication with Sulla, and
to
> >my knowledge he had no part in any of this.
> >
> >I see now that all of these fears about a coup rest upon the control of
the
> >web site, which makes me the key figure in any such supposed plot. This
is
> >quite logical, of course. Seizing control of communications is essential
> to
> >any direct action scenario. Now, given that I am a former Air Force
> >officer, don't you think I would have thought of that if I were part of
> such
> >a plot? But I didn't think of it, because I was not involved any attempt
> to
> >seize control of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I contemplate changing
> >the access codes for the site or by any means whatsoever locking out the
> >duly constituted authorities of Nova Roma. Never at any time did I
> >contemplate using the web site for any partisan political purpose or in
any
> >way whatsoever altering the content of the web site in support of a
> partisan
> >political agenda. No one ever approached me with any such schemes, and
had
> >anyone done so I would have immediately rejected them with indignation.
I
> >must point out that <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> has ALWAYS been under the
control
> >of the Cassii, to the best of my knowledge. The only exception to this
> that
> >I am aware of is, that when the Cassii were on vacation a few weeks ago,
> >they temporarily transferred list moderator permissions to myself... and
of
> >all people, Audens, another alleged coup plotter! This would seem to
have
> >been too good of an opportunity to pass up, yet it was passed up. Why,
if
> >only because there was no such plot?
> >
> Lucius Equitius:
> Now I call for the return of the necessary tools for the webmaster to do
his
> appointed duty.
>
> >And if this plot was all so freakin' secret, how is it that the supposed
> >targets of the alleged plot found out about it? I used to work on
"black"
> >projects in the Air Force. Do you think that I don't know how to keep a
> lid
> >on things?
> >
> >I'm doing my best to be patient through all of this, but I have to say
that
> >the spin that certain people have put on this borders on the paranoid
> >delusional. I once again call for an unconditional restoration of the
> >status quo ante bellum. I am still locked out of the web site. I have
been
> >deprived of the means of carrying out my duties as Vebsitarius Maximus.
> >This has been done without just cause and without due process, and
remains
> >in effect without just cause and without due process.
> >
> >Vale,
> >Marcus Martianus Gangalius
> >Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
>
> Lucius Equitius:
> I have only one thing to add, Curule Aedile Marcus Martianus Gangalius was
> appointed to be webmaster by the Elected Conules, Decius Iunius Palladius
> and myself. I have vetoed the action of any change. Restore the website
and
> it's functions. I'll pay for it if that is what needs to be done for us to
> work constitutionally.
>
> >>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
> >>Salvete omnes
> >>
> >>>From my investigation, I've reached the conclusion that there was no
coup
> at
> >>all.
> >>
> Lucius Equitius:
> Have you bothered to look at the Main Page of the Website?
> What do you call that?
>
> >>The climate of frustration that was due to the delay on forming the
> Comitia
> >>resulted into an ultimatum presented publicly to the Censores, that said
> >>they should resign their offices if the Comitia were not established by
> the
> >>Ides of Quinctilis.
>
>
> Lucius Equitius:
> This was only being considered, for if it had been presented publicly the
> citizens would not be asking what is going on, would they?
>
> >>An unfortunate exchange of email between some magistrates provoked a
false
> >>alarm of the part of Praetor Saevola Magister for an impeachment of the
> >>Censores. This is the prove that there was no conspiracy, for otherwise,
> the
> >>conspirators would have got the control of the Web site in silence. That
> did
> >>not happen, and another prove that there was no conspiracy was the
> complete
> >>disorganisation that followed the response of Censor Cassius and the
Board
> >>of Directors (BoD).
>
> Lucius Equitius:
> Which is Not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or the website and has
> caused the resignation and termination of citizenship of Quaestor Marcus
> Minucius Audens.
>
> >>Feeling menaced by an eventual unconstitutional coup d'etat, the Senate,
> >>BoD, and Censores got the control of the NR Web site and feeling
betrayed
> by
> >>every sife, they decided to end NR as we know it.
>
> Lucius Equitius;
> True, but it was not both Censores as Decius Iunius Palladius has been
> locked out of the site too.
>
> >>On the other hand, having declared Nova Roma dead, the BoD justified
some
> >>desperate actions and words on the part of some magistrates such as
> Curulis
> >>Aedilis Gangalius and Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who, being
> >>ellected by the people of NR, could not let NR die. As such they formed
a
> >>regrouping party, called Roma Tertia, which kept the ellected
magistracies
> >>except the Censores. On the other hand, the BoD formed another
regrouping
> >>party keeping the Senate and the Censores.
> >>
> Lucius Equitius;
> This is false, as Consul of Nova Roma, I had no need to form any
"regrouping
> party, called Roma Tertia". Let's get this straight once and for all,
Decius
> Iunius Palladius and Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus ARE THE CONSULES of Nova
> Roma. I invite you all to read the CONSTITUTION!
> Bookmark it. <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html</a>
> Print up a copy for youself ,don't be like the average American who knows
or
> cares little for their constitution.
>
> >From Article III: Magistrates
> 1.Magistrates shall handle the daily operations of Nova Roma...The
> magistrates, in order of authority from greatest to least, with their
> powers, shall be as follows.
> 2. Two Consuls shall be elected, and shall be the highest-ranking
> magistrates in Nova Roma. Each Consul shall have the following powers:
> 1.holding Imperium; (authority to do their job)
> 2.veto over the actions of his or her fellow Consul, and over the actions
of
> lesser magistrates;
> 3.calling the Senate to convene and undertake its deliberations; ..."
>
> I do this stubbornly not for myself (my consulship is half over and I have
> been able to accomplish little, for that I am sorry), but for the Consules
> who will follow. How will they fair if they are left powerless? Will Nova
> Roma continue to run at the whim of one? Do your votes, your time, your
> efforts, your dreams all mean nothing?
> Romans are civilized and live by law (or are we barbarians who follow a
> King?)
>
> >>Now, we must learn again how to be a true Res Publica. Hope that the
> Comitia
> >>Populi can help. Lets once again learn our Constitution and swear to the
> >>Gods not to trample it again. Lets recite it at home, before sleeping,
> sing
> >>its articles in our soul.
> >>>>Valete omnes,Tribunus PlebisAntonius Gryllus Graecus
>
> Ita Est!
>
> Valete, Consul Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>
> PS this is not a "parthian shot"! (which has turned into the proverbial
> 'parting shot')
>
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
greetings to all |
| From: |
Djester6@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:19:15 EDT |
|
Greetings,
hello everyone one, i'm a new member to the list. my name is Ryan,
and i'm a Celtic Reconstructionist. My reasons for suscribing to this list is
in the study of Indo-European cultures and religion. I hope to help and
particpate in the conversations. I am very adament about my heritage, and
become fiery when the subject of Gaul or Germania come up, but this time we
can hopefully all get along;).
Gods Bless,
Ryan walsh
|
| Subject: |
Re: Merulli de rerum statu Sententiae |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:26:09 -0400 |
|
Salvete Marce Muci et alii
:>-Marce Muci, could you investigate these events, for the purpose of
:>prosecuting guilty parties before functional comitia (centuriata?)
:
:Regrettably, this would be inappropriate since (a) I was involved in the
:"impeachment discussion" and
If you don't mind my asking, to what extent were you involved in the
"impeachment discussion", and did that discussion call for fracturing or
destroying Nova Roma? If no to the latter question, then I think that you
remain qualified to investigate the matter.
(b) one of the early acts of the Board of
:Directors in the crisis phase was to send me a letter expelling me from NR.
:"Nemo iudex in causa sua", no-one can be a judge is his own cause, is an
:old rule of roman law and one of the foundations of modern law.
No disrespect is meant to you by this, but, I don't give a faex, really,
about the BoD's position in this regard. The Corporation closed us down, or
at least, declared that it was doing so and usurped control of some of the
principal means of our communication; so it is more accurate to say that
the Corporation dealt us a heavy, heavy blow. Does the Corporation even
exist in our constitution? No. Does the Corporation represent anything in
the law of Roma Antiqua? No. The BoD is an entirely separate entity from
the Res Publica. The former's action against you does nothing to your
ability to act on behalf of us, your constituents.
:
:However, I do have a near-complete set of emails of the "impeachment"
:discussions, (which started from the PUBLIC arguments, on the e-list, about
:
Marce Muci, I still hope that you'll entertain the idea of basing an
investigation on those e-mails.
:
:My own feeling is that we got into deep shit through some paranoia on both
:sides; and that Flavia Claudia's account is still trapped in the paranoid
:fantasy. Graecus' conclusion that both sides had honest intentions may
:sound anodyne but has a pretty fair degree of truth in it.
I don't dispute that. You know better than I do. But until this thing can
be formally laid to rest, baseless accusations are bound to fly around, or
at least, doubts about what happened and didn't happen may nag us.
:
:Valete,
:
:M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
:
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
--------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:02:44 -0500 |
|
On 2 Jul 99, at 13:37, Lucius wrote:
> Lucius Equitius: This is a false characterization. Anyone who wants a copy
> ask and you can see for yourself.
Please post it. Not to me personally, but to this main list. I'm sick
of the secrecy!
Crystallina
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil
ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:05:10 -0500 |
|
On 2 Jul 99, at 17:43, Antonio Grilo wrote:
> An inquiry is now running to find the promoters of the illegal
> impeachment. Those who are to be found guilty shall be condemned
> accordingly, although this can only happen upon the return of NR to the
> Constitutional status. No summary trials shall be made. Justice shall be
> put to work according with the Constitution.
Too late. One has been banned already. I'll be more than happy to
forward the email if anyone wants to see it. I do believe it was
dated Wednesday.
Crystallina
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil
ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:26:42 EDT |
|
In a message dated 7/2/1999 8:05:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> writes:
<< Too late. One has been banned already. I'll be more than happy to
forward the email if anyone wants to see it. I do believe it was
dated Wednesday. >>
If you are meaning me, QFM I'm pleased to say that my banishment has been
rescinded. The Trib of the Plebs investigated, and cleared me of any wrong
doing.
F. Claudia is obviously on drugs. I was with you most of Wed. Do you
remember me boasting how Sulla and I were taking over NR?
Vale!
QFM
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story (apology to F.C.) |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:37:32 EDT |
|
In a message dated 7/2/1999 8:27:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=246157057089235135162082190036" >SFP55@--------</a>
writes:
<< f you are meaning me, QFM I'm pleased to say that my banishment has been
rescinded. The Trib of the Plebs investigated, and cleared me of any wrong
doing.
F. Claudia is obviously on drugs. I was with you most of Wed. Do you
remember me boasting how Sulla and I were taking over NR? >>
Salvete!
This was not to be posted on the main list. I was upset at F. Claudia's
accusations and was posting to Back Alley to vent. But truth be told I had
nothing to do with wed, and I never signed anything. However since I wasn't
a magistrate, or a priest in NR, I couldn't anyway. That is all I'm going to
say about the matter.
But F. Claudia never should have attacked me. Still I regret what I said.
Quintus Fabius Maximus.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Meditations |
| From: |
"Keith Seddon" K.H.S@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:22:33 +0100 |
|
Thank you, Pontius Flavius Silva, for reminding us of the words of Marcus
Aurelius in his Meditations.
Plato said that human societies would be subject to bad governments until
such a time as rulers became philosophers or philosophers became rulers.
Marcus Aurelius, as far as I know, was the only ever philosopher-ruler (he
was a philosopher before he became a ruler).
It would be better still if we ALL became philosophers.
If you don't fancy Plato -- and in a good translation, he is very readable
(try the new Hackett translation) -- you can stick to the good old Roman
Stoic Trio, Seneca, Epictetus, and Marcus.
Live with honour,
L. Gellius Severus
(Stoic Philosopher)
|
| Subject: |
just so people in the us know what the uk people are saying[Fwd: [britannia] Digest Number 38] |
| From: |
william wheeler wuffa@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:21:32 +0100 |
|
<a href="mailto:britannia@--------" >britannia@--------</a> wrote:
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 3 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Nova Roma Crisis
> From: Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a>
> 2. a Quorum of the Senate has declared an Interregnum
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
> 3. Re: Nova Roma Crisis
&g-------- From: &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------Pascal Thiele)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:31:59 -0400
> From: Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a>
> Subject: Nova Roma Crisis
>
> Salvete, omnes!
>
> I am sorry to have to dump on the Britannia list a load of crap. However, I
> have just received an email expelling me from Nova Roma, IMHO on pretty
> lousy grounds, and I thought I should inform citizens in Britannia.
>
> The background to this is that L. Equitius Cincinnatus, and I, and several
> others, have been agitating for some time for the Comitia to be set up as
> required by the Constitution of NR. L. Equitius raised the matter at the
> meeting at "Roman Days" in the US, and the Censors responded that they
> would act in the immediate future.
>
> When nothing then happened. L. Equitius got pissed off and circulated to
> several of the magistrates a proposal that the Censors should be impeached
> for breach of their duty. I responded that impeachment was IMO an
> inappropriate approach, but that by refusing to constitute the Comitia the
> Censors might be considered to have resigned their offices; in any case
> before taking any action the magistrates should give them a deadline to
> act, or else. Some discussion followed (yesterday US time) which I just
> caught up with this evening - terminating with the expulsion message from
> M. Cassius Iulianus (timed at 09.37 am BST today).
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus has sent to the NRBackAlley list the following message:
>
> >Salvete!
> >As you may or may not know, Marcus Cassius Julianus has pulled the plug on
>
> >the WEB site after the Magistrates asked him to resign. His exact words
> to
> >me at 6 AM via IM was "I'm going tear it all down."
> >I won't go into how I wanted the site to be independent of anybody this
> Jan,
> >to avoid this sort of thing. But it has happened. The first question
> that
> >must be asked is do we want to continue? I believe NR is bigger then any
> >individual. Marcus Cassius has proven that he thinks it is not. I think
> we
> >should prove him wrong. Amethystia Iunia Crystallina has set a chatroom
> at
> ><a href="http://bx6.deja.com/~pax" target="_top" >http://bx6.deja.com/~pax</a> If you are interested in continuing NR, you
> should
> >join it.
> >Valete!
> >Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
> Ceteris paribus, this appears to be a split. I certainly had no intention
> in my participation in discussions with L. Equitius to precipitate a split,
> or as M. Cassius accuses me (and L. Equitius of) a "coup attempt". I was
> merely concerned, as I have been for some time, that if NR is to have a
> Constitution, it should play by the rules: that's pietas and the roman way.
> I had no idea that relations between people in the US were so extremely
> touchy.
>
> Citizens in Britannia will have to decide for themselves how to act. I can,
> if anyone wants to see it, forward the record of the email discussion among
> magistrates which seems to have precipitated the split; I have dumped it on
> the Back Alley List for those who subscribe, but don't want to dump it on
> this list without a request.
>
> Valete,
>
> M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:38:56 -0700
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
> Subject: a Quorum of the Senate has declared an Interregnum
>
> It is on the website front page.
>
> They have suspended the government.
>
> C. Aelius Ericius.
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 11:24:36 +0200
&g-------- From: &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------Pascal Thiele)
> Subject: Re: Nova Roma Crisis
>
> Salve Mucius,
>
> Iīd be interested in the email discussion of the magistrates.
> Please forward this to me.
> I think itīs terrible, there is no info on the email list, it seems to
> come out of the blue???
>
> Vale
> Lucius Metellus
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
|
