| Subject: |
Re: Merulli de rerum statu Sententiae |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:54:32 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Merullus writes:
>If you don't mind my asking, to what extent were you involved in the
>"impeachment discussion", and did that discussion call for fracturing or
>destroying Nova Roma? If no to the latter question, then I think that you
>remain qualified to investigate the matter.
The short answer to these questions is:
1) "To what extent"? As far as I can see from the correspondence, this
episode started with my suggesting on the main list (somewhen just before
15th June) that it was the Censors' principal duty to constitute the
Comitia, and that if they positively refused to do so they could be deemed
to have resigned under the relevant principles of the modern law of
corporations and unincorporated associations. Martianus then suggested that
the Censors should be given a deadline to act.
The issue died temporarily when we were told after the Roman Days
meeting that constitution of the Comitia was imminent, and was then revived
by L. Equitius when it appeared to him that the Censors were still
stalling. I did not draft the proposed articles of impeachment and in fact
advised that impeachment had no constitutional basis, and that the original
idea of proposing a deadline was preferable to going for immediate
proceedings of any sort. However, I was deeply involved and Cassius &
co-thinkers would certainly be entitled under the principles of both Roman
and modern law (cf. the Pinochet case!) to reject me as a judge.
2) "Did that discussion call for fracturing of destroying NR"? NO. All the
participants were concerned solely with the question: how to get the
Comitia formed, so that NR could function constitutionally.
However, we underestimated the extent to which Cassius and friends
would see the use of threats of legal action as a personal attack, were
unaware of the paranoid fantasy of a conspiracy which was in circulation
among them (Flavia Claudia's email) and did not imagine the lengths to
which they would go to prevent it.
3) "You remain qualified". I think not, for the reasons given at the end of
(1). Certainly, if I did uncover evidence of a Californian conspiracy which
sought to use me and others as front-men, I would happily see the offenders
prosecuted, and to that extent there is not actual bias. But the other side
are entitled to the avoidance of the APPEARANCE of bias (see the Pinochet
case); so I am disqualified.
Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Perspective (repost) |
| From: |
legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:47:41 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete omnes...
This didn't get much attention when I first put it up a week ago...but
then, considering the week we've had, I'm not surprised that this would
have been the case. I'm reposting it now because I think it is
sorely-needed... I sincerely hope (and pray) that it helps, even a
little.
-- Marius Fimbria
<---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
From: <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
Subject: Perspective
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Salvete omnes...
This was posted a couple of days ago to a Celtic Christian List to
which I also subscribe. That List, too, has seen what the Chinese
curse calls 'interesting times'; and this message spoke so well to my
distress at some of the upheavals on the Nova Roma List, I thought I'd
share it with you. This is NOT evangelical at all (gads, I can't stand
those types either!!!) --just good food for thought about communities
in general, cyber- or otherwise.
<------------------------>
Message: 2
Date: 22 Jun 99 23:26:12 Sydney Standard Time
From: Fusion Gippsland <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=123176104115099153169158004248240208071048" >gippsland@--------</a>
Subject: the stages of community
How encouraging the last digest was. Some very adult "transactions". It
was refreshing to read to say the least.
Andi I think the new purpose statement you came up with is fine. I find
it difficult to stay on track with my thoughts and my journey (in terms
of what is appropriate to share). In some forums I am a part of we read
the goals and aims at the beginning of each meeting. Even Lions clubs
and other service clubs do this, it's just a way of keeping the purpose
clear in peoples minds. I wonder if we could have a brief statement
that helped us all to stay focused as a header or even a footer to our
postings?
With regard to what we are experiencing within this little electronic
community of ours! Let's not panic, it is very normal - even
predictable! All communities go through phases, the healthier the
community the closer it gets to reality.
Many of you no doubt will be familiar with Scott Pecks book "The road
less travelled" For any that are not I highly recommend you get a copy
(M.Scott.Peck. 1990.Arrow books ltd.20 Vauxhill bridge road, London
SW1V2SA). I haven't read it for a while, but I'm fairly certain it is
Peck that talks about these phases of community. (many others do as
well) The suggestion is that people find themselves for one reason or
another as a part of a group. At first they are little more than
individuals with some tenuous thread of commonality between them. As we
are social beings we don't tend to like this and we look for
"community" within our groups. In the early stages we are all very
polite this is sometimes called "pseudo community" being blunt about it
it is superficial at best. We can only maintain this superficial
community for so long, it requires great amounts of energy to keep
being polite!
Eventually the group will either disintegrate or move on from "pseudo
community" to a second phase (which I forget the name of). This second
phase is characterised by conflict! During this second phase the real
issues of life are at stake which are Intimacy and authority, some
would say Intimacy is about "is there anyone here that it is safe to
relax with and reveal my true self to" and that authority is
essentially about "whose view of the world will prevail" (sound
familiar to anyone?). This is still an essentially selfish stage in the
development of community, the individual wants intimacy and the
individual wants authority (some individuals are passive about this but
they generally attach themselves to someone elses intimacy &
authority). True community is expressed when issues of intimacy and
authority are dealt with. Again groups will either deal with these
issues, disintegrate or revert back to the safer and polite "pseudo
community".
The third phase which is "true community" has at its' heart our God
given capacity to see beyond our own needs and genuinely "see" the
other people (not just the masked polite person - but the real person,
whom sometimes the individual can not see of themselves! )
I believe our little community may be between the second and third
phase. Faced with a choice of revealing our true selves (a great risk).
If we take the risk and manage to experience intimacy together,
(acceptance of each other for who we really are) then issues of
authority (whose view of the world will prevail) will melt away,
neither I nor you will need to be "right" and my feeling accepted by
you (and my feeling ok about who I am or even who I fear I am!) will
not depend on you seeing things my way - because you will have accepted
me for who I am. True community is a safe place, it does not have
condemnatory or reactionary responses. True community is not pale grey
"everyone pretending to agree" either (that's pseudo community) In true
community I can agree or disagree with what you say and do and you can
hear me affirm your contribution, agree with your action or disagree
etc. None of which would be condemnatory or reactionary because I will
have seen you for who you really are and not what you say, how you
think, what you do or how you express yourself.
Well some of you may be more familiar with this stuff than me, I've
reported it how I've experienced it - perhaps you have something to add
to what I've said? There are other ways of explaining this process too
(illusion - disillusionment - reality) & (dependence - counter
dependence - independence - interdependence) are a couple that come to
mind, perhaps someone familiar with them or another model would like to
"pick up the baton and run with it?
The main thing to remember is that community is always hard work!
love
Chris.
<----------------------->
Yours under the Eagles,
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!
aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends
<---- End Forwarded Message ---->
|
| Subject: |
Re: Before I move on......... |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:52:44 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/02/1999 9:34:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> writes:
<< But don't I need to be dead to be deified? If I do, I would just as
soon put it off <G>. >>
Sweetie...you're a living Goddess!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
A plea for restoration |
| From: |
Joan Lansberry and Julia Cachia gallae@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 03 Jul 1999 08:52:00 -0700 |
|
I fervently hope that the devotion, idealism, and good effort which
inspired the creation of Nova Roma will suffice to bring reconciliation and
a renewed commitment among the noble spirits attracted by the Vestal flame.
It's all too true that words and emotions quickly get out of hand in this
medium of communication, simply through the absence of body language and
intonations of voice; that happens everywhere. It's true also that the
vision of Nova Roma, whatever extent shared, is not an easy one to
accomplish ... "not built in a day" or a year or a decade for that matter,
especially with few in a position to work at it full-time. May the Gods
long-honored by Romans then, and once-again, lend their strength to all who
find wisdom and worthiness in this vision. Let us learn from the brief
misfortune, remembering great Concordia, and return to the good work of
reconstruction!
Vopisca Iulia Galla speaks from her heart: Valete Omnes!
* * * * *
Colloquy: <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm</a>>
Joan's "A Tale Told With Time":
<<a href="http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm" target="_top" >http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm</a>>
Julia: <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm</a>>
Joan's "Out On a Limb":<<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html</a>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Meae sententiae de rerum statu |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:11:34 EDT |
|
All I can say to this is that I'm glad for once I'm not the center of the
controversy!
--Dexippus
<heading to the beach of Lake Michigan>
|
| Subject: |
Re: greetings to all |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:14:05 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/02/1999 9:19:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132063192112175198218021203140129208071" >Djester6@--------</--------; writes:
<< I am very adament about my heritage, and
become fiery when the subject of Gaul or Germania come up, but this time we
can hopefully all get along;). >>
If you promise not to ransack Rome, I promise not to attack Gaul or Germania!
==Dexippus
Divus Maximus Extremus
|
| Subject: |
Does Nova Roma exist anymore? |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:25:13 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I just came from the website. That 'statement' is still gracing the
page. What's up? Is Nova Roma still in existence or are we (those
who might be welcome, I should say) all moving to Cassius' Julian
Society? If Nova Roma still exists, HOW is it existing?
And while I hate to ask, could I get an answer this time?
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina (probably)
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil
ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
birthright of vergil |
| From: |
Djester6@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:05:16 EDT |
|
Falite,
i recall reading somewhere that Virgil was born of a Gaulish
parent or parents? i would appricite your imput on this.
Erin go Brough,
Ryan Walsh
|
| Subject: |
Re: the inside story |
| From: |
Exitil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:48:47 EDT |
|
Someone please send me info about this "Roma Respublica"..whats the website
and what are their goals?
|
| Subject: |
Re: Meditations |
| From: |
SDmtwi@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:23:34 EDT |
|
Salvete,
Si vales, valeo.
> Marcus Aurelius, as far as I know, was the only ever philosopher-ruler (he
> was a philosopher before he became a ruler).
Actually, Julian the Apostate was also a philosopher before he took
the purple.
> It would be better still if we ALL became philosophers.
Agreed!
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Chicago |
| From: |
Patrick Dunn saevvs@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 03 Jul 1999 13:56:04 PDT |
|
I dwell in DeKalb during the school year, although I may not be a nova Roman
for much longer if this sort of idiocy continues. . .
|
| Subject: |
California Provincia Website |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 03 Jul 1999 16:04:04 -0700 |
|
There is now a Provincia California website!
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/mars_ultor/california/califrm.htm" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/mars_ultor/california/califrm.htm</a>
Compliments of the talented G. Martianus Gangalius.
One of the features on the site are classical statues and architecture in California. I
have some photos I've been taking over the years of classically inspired statues that I am
going to mail to Gangalius for him to scan for the Provincia California website. Perhaps
others in the Provincia could also do so. History of the land the provincia encompasses
are also on the site. The site is brand new. It has been accepted by Nova Roma Webring.
As Propraetor of Provincia California I shall have oversight of the site.
Check it out. Tell us what you think.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor ad Californiam Provinciam.
|
| Subject: |
Re: A plea for restoration |
| From: |
Daniel Dreesbach dreesbach@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:58:54 -0700 (PDT) |
|
I believe that the old system should be restored.that system is why I
joined
--- Joan Lansberry and Julia Ca-------- <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=123166235078158198015102190036129" >gallae@--------</a> wrote:
> From: Joan Lansberry and Julia Cachia
> <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=123166235078158198015102190036129" >gallae@--------</a>
>
> I fervently hope that the devotion, idealism, and
> good effort which
> inspired the creation of Nova Roma will suffice to
> bring reconciliation and
> a renewed commitment among the noble spirits
> attracted by the Vestal flame.
> It's all too true that words and emotions quickly
> get out of hand in this
> medium of communication, simply through the absence
> of body language and
> intonations of voice; that happens everywhere. It's
> true also that the
> vision of Nova Roma, whatever extent shared, is not
> an easy one to
> accomplish ... "not built in a day" or a year or a
> decade for that matter,
> especially with few in a position to work at it
> full-time. May the Gods
> long-honored by Romans then, and once-again, lend
> their strength to all who
> find wisdom and worthiness in this vision. Let us
> learn from the brief
> misfortune, remembering great Concordia, and return
> to the good work of
> reconstruction!
>
> Vopisca Iulia Galla speaks from her heart: Valete
> Omnes!
>
> * * * * *
> Colloquy:
> <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm</a>>
> Joan's "A Tale Told With Time":
> <<a href="http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm" target="_top" >http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm</a>>
> Julia: <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm</a>>
> Joan's "Out On a
> Limb":<<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html</a>>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: where real people with real interests get
> connected.
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Join a new list today!
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
the fall of rome |
| From: |
Djester6@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 22:05:16 EDT |
|
dear countrymen,
let us remember history, for it is like a river and tends to
repeat itself. i have not been a member of this list for a great while, but i
am reminded of how Rome fell, it spread itself so vastly, their forces
weakened, and foregin influences begin to become the majority of thought, and
the original Italians becoming less and less. the homefront became weak, and
the goverment became tainted and curropted. let us grab on to our homelands
and anestral cultures and relgions, and hang on for dear life. I think
NovaRoma may have bitten off more than they can chew. let us remember our
anestors, for they have given us an example of what damage has been done, and
fix it so that are children and legacy can be bettered from it. This is just
my opinion, and i hope no one is affended by it.
Strength in our Arms, Truth in out Hearts, and Fulliment in our
Tounges-Cormac
Ryan Walsh
|
