| Subject: |
Re: A plea for restoration |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:10:54 -0500 |
|
On 3 Jul 99, at 18:58, Daniel Dreesbach wrote:
>
> I believe that the old system should be restored.that system is why I
> joined
>
Honest to the gods, I'm not trying to be funny. Just WHAT system
do you believe you joined under. I joined for the Religio. My
husband joined for the Historical. Etc, etc, etc.
Since no one in the government seems to be receiving this email
list I will ask the remaining members....
I think I sent the email asking WHAT IS NOVA ROMA. Hades, I
have been asking the same question for ever.
Crys
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil
ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
What is Nova Roma (was A plea for restoration) |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:03:13 EDT |
|
Salvete Crys et alia,
I'm quite taken aback by the notion that some "Board of Directors" that
doesn't even exist in the Constitution has usurped governmental authority
and presumed to exile citizens, shut down communication here, and modify
the Web site. Sure makes a joke out of national sovereignty, doesn't it?
Basically, at this point, I'm waiting to be convinced that Nova Roma
isn't just a juvenile prank played on the rest of us by Cassius and
whoever else was involved.
It sounds like there was a perfectly appropriate (if unpleasant)
discussion of taking legal action to correct the inactivity of the
Censors, to which someone (Cassius?) reacted in a ludicrously
disproportionate and unconstitutional way. I had considered personally
bringing charges against the Censors if there wasn't some action soon,
but I didn't want to introduce more acrimony into NR than we've already
had in the past. Little did I know how much acrimony would be involved!
I THOUGHT Nova Roma was growing in several directions, some of which I
was interested in and others not. I THOUGHT the Comitiae issue was
approaching resolution, based on the report from Roman Days. But I had no
idea that any individual could or would take over and shut down
everything for personal reasons.
I would like to see NR restored, but the Board of Directors has to be an
organ of government -- perhaps identical with the Senate, or the curule
magistrates, or whatever. The BoD CANNOT be an external body that has the
power to illegally shut things down. That must be corrected ASAP if NR is
to have any future.
If not, then perhaps Rome needs to be reborn again somewhere else. We had
too good a start here to let one person or a small clique destroy it all.
They may own the name "Nova Roma" and the flag, but they don't own the
history or the idea.
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
|
| Subject: |
The Festival of Liberty |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete, Quirites.
In my view, purpose of the government of Nova Roma should be to provide a
structure which facilitates the religious and cultural activities of the
People. I also view it as a social experiment, to approximately re-create
the Roman Republic and to evolve into a more perfect system of government
that eluded Roma Antiqua. This may be Hubris, given the great men who were
the actors on that ancient stage. Yet we, their spiritual descendants,
should be able to learn from their example, as well as from the examples of
modern republics, and develop our own vibrant legacy of self-government.
Accordingly, I believe the full restoration of the Constitutional government
is the sine qua non of Nova Roma. Anything less is a sick and cynical sham
that has been perpetrated on hundreds of people across four continents by a
tiny and secretive clique in Maine.
As evidenced by the recent announcement of the California Provincia web site
by Propraetor Caius Aelius Ericius, I am continuing in my duties as Aedilis
Curule to the best of my ability under the present "Interregnum" that
Cassius has imposed. I believe we, magistrates and Cives, all must conduct
ourselves as though Nova Roma has a functioning Constitutional government.
The Republic lives because we insist that it lives, not because Cassius
issues some damned decree! Under patient and relentless pressure,
eventually Cassius will have to give in and fully restore the status quo
ante. From there, we can work patiently to complete the Constitutional
framework of the Republic, and to correct the flaws in Nova Roma that have
come to light in recent days.
1. All information media of Nova Roma must be returned to the control of
duly constituted authority. The cost of providing these essential services
must be borne by the Republic, rather than by an individual.
2. Let's work together openly to solve the issue of the Tribes and
Centuries by a reasonable date, and then form the corresponding comitiae by
a reasonable date.
3. The corporation's bylaws must be published for all Cives to see;
legally, these are a matter of public record.
4. The corporation's bylaws must be amended to give the Constitution the
full force of law within Nova Roma, rather than treat it as an irrelevancy
to be swept away when it proves to be inconvenient. The corporation's power
outside of the Constitution must be abolished forever.
5. The corporation's Board of Directors and the Senate must be made one and
the same body, not only de facto but de jure.
6. All past and present magistrates holding Imperium must automatically be
made full members of the Senate, and the Constitution must be amended to
that effect.
7. The Constitution must be amended to prohibit anyone from occupying more
than one magistracy simultaneously; there is too much power concentrated in
the hands of too few.
I quote Thomas Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States of America:
"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the
subjects of govenment. The history of liberty is the history of resistance.
The history of liberty is the history of the limitations of governmental
power, not the increase of it. When we resist... concentration of power, we
are resisting the powers of death, because concentration of power is always
what precedes the destuction of human liberties."
On this, the 223rd birthday of the United States of America, let all of us
who are admirers of the American Revolution, wherever in the world we may
live, remember those Patriots who took a stand against tyranny, and
inaugurated the modern era of self-government, which was until then eighteen
hundred years absent from this earth.
May God bless the United States of America.
May the Gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma.
Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
Respublica Novae Romae
Thomas Gangale
Captain, United States Air Force (Retired)
At 12:03 PM 7/4/99 EDT, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; wrote:
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>Salvete Crys et alia,
>
>I'm quite taken aback by the notion that some "Board of Directors" that
>doesn't even exist in the Constitution has usurped governmental authority
>and presumed to exile citizens, shut down communication here, and modify
>the Web site. Sure makes a joke out of national sovereignty, doesn't it?
>
>Basically, at this point, I'm waiting to be convinced that Nova Roma
>isn't just a juvenile prank played on the rest of us by Cassius and
>whoever else was involved.
>
>It sounds like there was a perfectly appropriate (if unpleasant)
>discussion of taking legal action to correct the inactivity of the
>Censors, to which someone (Cassius?) reacted in a ludicrously
>disproportionate and unconstitutional way. I had considered personally
>bringing charges against the Censors if there wasn't some action soon,
>but I didn't want to introduce more acrimony into NR than we've already
>had in the past. Little did I know how much acrimony would be involved!
>
>I THOUGHT Nova Roma was growing in several directions, some of which I
>was interested in and others not. I THOUGHT the Comitiae issue was
>approaching resolution, based on the report from Roman Days. But I had no
>idea that any individual could or would take over and shut down
>everything for personal reasons.
>
>I would like to see NR restored, but the Board of Directors has to be an
>organ of government -- perhaps identical with the Senate, or the curule
>magistrates, or whatever. The BoD CANNOT be an external body that has the
>power to illegally shut things down. That must be corrected ASAP if NR is
>to have any future.
>
>If not, then perhaps Rome needs to be reborn again somewhere else. We had
>too good a start here to let one person or a small clique destroy it all.
>They may own the name "Nova Roma" and the flag, but they don't own the
>history or the idea.
>
>Valete,
>
>Lucius Sergius Australicus
>
>
>sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
>
>(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist: the best source for group communications.
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Join a new list today!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius
|
| Subject: |
A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
Art McGrath amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:02:30 -0400 (EDT) |
|
The following resolution of the crisis passed the Senate today by a
majority vote. This was not done lightly but in the knowledge that it is
the only possible way to keep Nova Roma intact and preserve our system of
government. A declaration by Flavius Vedius Germanicus, now dictator of
Nova Roma, will follow shortly. I do not congratulate him for
accepting this post this, for it is not a moment to celebrate.
"I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma, hereby convene the
Senate to an emergency session to vote on the following:
'Whereas the current situation in Nova Roma is intolerable and threatens
the very existence of Nova Roma both as a nation and as a membership
organization, and,
"Whereas this crisis, while precipitated by a single incident, has at its
root many causes that must be addressed so as to avoid any similar
situations in the future, as well as to ensure the orderly and enjoyable
continuation of Nova Roma, and,
"Whereas any solution to the present crisis should and must be done in
accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma,
"Do we, the Senate of Nova Roma, by vote of a majority, hereby appoint
Flavius Vedius Germanicus to the office of Dictator, and invest in him
complete authoritas and imperium, trusting him to resolve the present crisis
and take whatever steps he deems necessary to prevent its recurrence in the
future."
In the name of the Senate and People of the New Rome,
And in the sight of the Gods,
Signed,
Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma'
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:14:24 -0400 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Art McGrath <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 3:02 PM
Subject: [novaroma] A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis
>From: Art McGrath <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
>
>The following resolution of the crisis passed the Senate today by a
>majority vote. This was not done lightly but in the knowledge that it is
>the only possible way to keep Nova Roma intact and preserve our system of
>government. A declaration by Flavius Vedius Germanicus, now dictator of
>Nova Roma, will follow shortly. I do not congratulate him for
>accepting this post this, for it is not a moment to celebrate.
>
>"I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma, hereby convene the
>Senate to an emergency session to vote on the following:
>
I, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Consul Novae Romae hereby Veto this action!
Give us the Tribes you promised and informed us were done!
Valete Omnes!
BTW Where is the Senate these days or is this Consul not privy to the Senate
anymore?
>
>'Whereas the current situation in Nova Roma is intolerable and threatens
>the very existence of Nova Roma both as a nation and as a membership
>organization, and,
>
>"Whereas this crisis, while precipitated by a single incident, has at its
>root many causes that must be addressed so as to avoid any similar
>situations in the future, as well as to ensure the orderly and enjoyable
>continuation of Nova Roma, and,
>
>"Whereas any solution to the present crisis should and must be done in
>accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma,
>
>"Do we, the Senate of Nova Roma, by vote of a majority, hereby appoint
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus to the office of Dictator, and invest in him
>complete authoritas and imperium, trusting him to resolve the present
crisis
>and take whatever steps he deems necessary to prevent its recurrence in the
>future."
>
>In the name of the Senate and People of the New Rome,
>And in the sight of the Gods,
>
>Signed,
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma'
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Who is the most visited e-mail list community Web Service?
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>ONElist.com - where more than 20 million e-mails are exchanged each day!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: A plea for restoration |
| From: |
Exitil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:28:18 EDT |
|
What is Nova Roma you ask? Well the answer I've gotten repeatedly is "people
trying to restore roman religion and culture". What does it mean to me?
Well no one really gives half a shit.
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:31:30 -0400 |
|
Salve,
> From: "Lucius" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
>
> >"I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma, hereby convene the
> >Senate to an emergency session to vote on the following:
> >
> I, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Consul Novae Romae hereby Veto this
action!
As Consul, you do not have the power to veto a Senatus Consultum, nor do you
have the power to veto an action of your collegate magistrate retroactively.
The vote was taken and declared closed when the question was decided by a
majority.
> Give us the Tribes you promised and informed us were done!
>
> Valete Omnes!
>
> BTW Where is the Senate these days or is this Consul not privy to the
Senate
> anymore?
It is exactly where it has always been. In fact, you had posted a call for a
vote there on June 25th (not that I was informed, though I was a Senator).
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
A Statement |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:15:46 -0400 |
|
Salvete Citizens of Nova Roma,
As you are doubtless aware, the last few days have been rough ones for our
fair Republic. Accusations of unconstitutional conspiracy, a rift between
the Board of Directors and the Government, the continued failure to
establish the various Comitiae, and ill-feelings growing exponentially.
It was felt that the only way to resolve the crisis and still maintain
continuity with what had gone before (and still act within the bounds of the
Constitution), that a Dictator should be appointed to sort out the problems
fairly, decisively, and legally. As I was not involved in the recent
"impeachment" scandal even tangentially, am not a member of the Board of
Directors, and am completely conversant with our Constitutional system, I
was chosen to serve in that capacity.
As Decius Iunius Palladius said, this is not a time for congratulations, as
it was the gravest of situations which brought us to this point. I have
deliberately laid low in the world of Nova Roman politics as of late, but
when called to serve, I fulfill my duty as any Roman would.
I would add that my appointment was made with the agreement that the
officers and Board of Directors of the Corporation would completely
cooperate with any reforms I might need to instigate regarding the
relationship between the Corporation and the State.
Many problems are to blame for the crisis which has befallen us. Above all,
problems with our Constitution and other institutions of government as they
currently exist, a failure to reconcile the Government with the non-profit
Corporation's officers and Board of Directors, and the impossibility of
resolving any of these problems as long as the Assemblies remain unable to
operate.
Finally, despite all of the problems which beset us, we *must* honor the
Constitution, flawed though it may be. Previously, this has not been done,
and the Constitution has been trampled in the name of necessity.
Several incidents come to mind. First and most egregious, elections of
magistrates were held last December in violation of the procedures set forth
in the Constitution, at the insistence of Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. This
same individual most recently attempted to instigate proceedings of
impeachment against other magistrates. Whether one believes that the Censors
needed to be removed or not, neither a Consul nor the Senate has the
authority under our Constitution to undertake such an act.
Therefore, as legally appointed Dictator, I hereby decree:
1) The results of last December's elections, having been held using illegal
procedures in the first place, are hereby nullified. Protempore magistrates
shall be appointed forthwith, pending the calling of new elections to be
held in accordance with established Constitutional procedures.
2) Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who has demonstrated a willingness to
subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve his desired ends, and as such
represents a grave threat to the State, is hereby removed from membership in
the Senate, his Citizenship is hereby revoked, and he is hereby banned from
re-applying for Citizenship for a period of ten years.
I would at this time invite anyone who wishes to please contact me with
ideas and suggestions regarding solutions to the various problems which
plague our nation. I need input from all sides on the weighty issues that we
face. While I may be Dictator, I do not believe that means I must be
autocratic.
My email address is <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> a--------y AOL I----------------esse--------
screen name is FL_Vedius.
Hoping to be able to lay down this office as soon as possible,
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator, co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:22:02 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Germanicus is correct: the decision to appoint a Dictator is a perfectly
Constitutional exercise of the power of the Senate under the Constitution
(Art 3.9), and is not subject to veto by magistrates. It is therefore a
great improvement on the previous proceedings of the "Board of Directors".
However, we were told only three days ago that a decision had been reached
to restore the Constitutional status quo ante as a result of negotiations,
and that the Comitia were now ready for formation (which as I understand it
would remove the original casus belli). Can Citizens be told what new
crisis forces the immediate appointment of a Dictator?
Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Appointment of Pro Tempore Magistrates |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:53:09 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
As legally-appointed Dictator, I hereby appoint the following individuals to
their respective offices. Please note that, with minimal exceptions, these
appointments represent a return to the state of affairs that existed before
the Interregnum.
Censor: Decius Iunius Palladius
Censor: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Consul: (vacant)
Consul: Decius Iunius Palladius
Praetor Urbanus: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus: Marcus Mucius Scaevola Magister
Aedilis Curule: Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Aedilis Plebis: Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis: (vacant)
Quaestrix: Patricia Cassia
Quaestor: Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor: Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Tribunus Plebis: Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Tribunus Plebis: (vacant)
Tribune Militaris: Marcus Minucius Audens
Tribune Militaris: Lucia Maria Fimbria
Administrationis Provinciales
Praetor, America Austroccidentalis Provincia: (vacant)
Propraetor, America Austrorientalis Provincia: Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Praetor, America Boreoccidentalis Provincia: (vacant)
Praetor, America Medioccidentalis Superior Provincia: (vacant)
Praetor, Brasilia Provincia: (vacant)
Propraetor, Britannia Provincia: Quinta Claudia Lucentia Aprica
Praetor, California Provincia: Caius Aelius Ericius
Praetor, Canada Occidentalis Provincia: (vacant)
Propraetor, Canada Orientalis Provincia: Gaius Triumphius Cicero
Praetor, Italia Provincia: Primus Fabius Cunctator
Praetor, Laci Magni Provincia: Gaius Drusus Domitianus
Propraetor, Lusitania Provincia: Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Legata, Lusitania Provincia: Emilia Camunna Brittania
Praetor, Mediatlantica Provincia: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Praetor, Mexico Provincia: (vacant)
Proconsul, Nova Britannia Provincia: Marcus Cassius Iulianus
Propraetor, Thule Provincia: Magnus Hadrianus Ingmarius Cogitatus Thuleus
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator, co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
Correction, and a Request |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:07:49 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
I just realized that Marcus Minucius Audens has resigned his offices, and
thus should not have been included in the list of pro tempore magistrates.
Also, in my researches, I understand that a group of non-elected
magisterial/priestly aides known collectively as "apparitores". They would
function as scribes, attendents, lictors, etc. I think there could be a
definite place for such a group in Nova Roma, and I was wondering if there
would be any interest amongst the Citizenry in filling such positions? At
this stage, I'd like to just take an informal poll; if you think you might
be interested in participating in the business of government (and other
ceremonial duties), I'd like to know.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator, and co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Statement |
| From: |
Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:10:27 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete, Quirites.
Not knowing what further purges Germanicus contemplates, I will make this
statement before he expels me as well.
Although he is not the most diplomatic man I have ever known, I do know
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus to be a man of great integrity, and he has been
slandered.
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus indicated to me in private several times over
the past several months that he opposed holding the elections last December.
Since at the several times he mentioned this, it was not an issue of great
import, I can't imagine that he would have had a motive to lie to me about
it. Furthermore, I was shocked that he took this position because in my
view, although I was not a Civis at the time, the election was a good thing.
Although the election was conducted without the Tribes and Centuries, it was
a free and fair election that was conducted on the principle of "one person,
one vote." Accordingly, I see now valid reason to nullify the results of
those elections, and I say this having no stake in the matter whatsoever,
since I was appointed to my position by Senatus Consulta.
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus has never, to my knowledge, attempted to
"subvert and ignore the Constitution". Rather, he has repeatedly urged the
Censores to complete the the formation of the Tribes and Centuries, for
without Comitiae that are to be constituted from these bodies, he could
bring no legislation. The ability of Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus to act
Constitutionally was thwarted by the delay of the Censores.
I say for the record that I believe the expulsion of Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus to be unjust, and I further believe the nullification of last
year's free and fair elections to be unjust.
What I see in these actions is that the only real coup -- the coup made by
the Maine clique -- is being consolidated.
That these actions have been taken on the Fourth of July, when America
celebrates freedom, fills me with disgust far beyond my poor ability to
express it.
May the gods preserve the Senate and People of Nova Roma. They certainly
have their work cut out for them.
Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
At 05:15 PM 7/4/99 -0400, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Citizens of Nova Roma,
>
>As you are doubtless aware, the last few days have been rough ones for our
>fair Republic. Accusations of unconstitutional conspiracy, a rift between
>the Board of Directors and the Government, the continued failure to
>establish the various Comitiae, and ill-feelings growing exponentially.
>
>It was felt that the only way to resolve the crisis and still maintain
>continuity with what had gone before (and still act within the bounds of the
>Constitution), that a Dictator should be appointed to sort out the problems
>fairly, decisively, and legally. As I was not involved in the recent
>"impeachment" scandal even tangentially, am not a member of the Board of
>Directors, and am completely conversant with our Constitutional system, I
>was chosen to serve in that capacity.
>
>As Decius Iunius Palladius said, this is not a time for congratulations, as
>it was the gravest of situations which brought us to this point. I have
>deliberately laid low in the world of Nova Roman politics as of late, but
>when called to serve, I fulfill my duty as any Roman would.
>
>I would add that my appointment was made with the agreement that the
>officers and Board of Directors of the Corporation would completely
>cooperate with any reforms I might need to instigate regarding the
>relationship between the Corporation and the State.
>
>Many problems are to blame for the crisis which has befallen us. Above all,
>problems with our Constitution and other institutions of government as they
>currently exist, a failure to reconcile the Government with the non-profit
>Corporation's officers and Board of Directors, and the impossibility of
>resolving any of these problems as long as the Assemblies remain unable to
>operate.
>
>Finally, despite all of the problems which beset us, we *must* honor the
>Constitution, flawed though it may be. Previously, this has not been done,
>and the Constitution has been trampled in the name of necessity.
>
>Several incidents come to mind. First and most egregious, elections of
>magistrates were held last December in violation of the procedures set forth
>in the Constitution, at the insistence of Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. This
>same individual most recently attempted to instigate proceedings of
>impeachment against other magistrates. Whether one believes that the Censors
>needed to be removed or not, neither a Consul nor the Senate has the
>authority under our Constitution to undertake such an act.
>
>Therefore, as legally appointed Dictator, I hereby decree:
>
>1) The results of last December's elections, having been held using illegal
>procedures in the first place, are hereby nullified. Protempore magistrates
>shall be appointed forthwith, pending the calling of new elections to be
>held in accordance with established Constitutional procedures.
>
>2) Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who has demonstrated a willingness to
>subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve his desired ends, and as such
>represents a grave threat to the State, is hereby removed from membership in
>the Senate, his Citizenship is hereby revoked, and he is hereby banned from
>re-applying for Citizenship for a period of ten years.
>
>I would at this time invite anyone who wishes to please contact me with
>ideas and suggestions regarding solutions to the various problems which
>plague our nation. I need input from all sides on the weighty issues that we
>face. While I may be Dictator, I do not believe that means I must be
>autocratic.
>
>My email address is <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> a--------y AOL I----------------esse--------
>screen name is FL_Vedius.
>
>Hoping to be able to lay down this office as soon as possible,
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Dictator, Senator, co-Founder
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
><a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>Come join one of 180,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius
|
| Subject: |
The Republican Rome's Dictator's office |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:39:06 EDT |
|
Salvete!
With Flavius Vedius Germanicus having been nominated to the Dictatorship of
Nova Roma, I thought that it might be prudent to post an explaination to
those aren't sure what the dictatorship was in the time of Roman Republic.
It was nothing like Caesar's or the common accepted meaning of today.
About The Dictator in the Roman Republic.
This office is found as a permanent office in other Latin States,
however any connection with similar magistracies I.E. The Meddix
Tuticus: the Oscan supreme magistrate, is uncertain, but likely.
Most governments in Italy had office of supreme magistrate with
temporary powers. In this way no Italian government had to put
up with the permanence of a king.
It appears that the Dictatorship was added to the Roman
constitution soon after the expulsion of the Etruscan kings.
This was to provide a transient, but extremely powerful magistracy in Roman
domestic crises: it had to be an extreme cause. (Livy book 1.)
At first the office holder was a major colleague of the consuls,
he was known as the praetor maximus, but later as the dictator he soon
became completely independent of the consulship, holding absolute
authority of a military nature, impervious to veto or appeal both
abroad and at Rome. Twenty-four lictors symbolized his
quasi-regal power, which, should be correctly viewed as a
gathering of all consular authority rather than a restricted
renewal of the Etruscan kingship.
The dictator was not elected by the people, but nominated by a
consul on the Senate's proposal. The Comitia Curiata confirmed
the nomination. Around 361 B.C.E. a former or sitting consul
were normally selected, it appears earlier the 'best man' was
chosen, the pragmatic Romans rightfully figuring who was best
suited for the job. The man nominated had to be a member of the
Senate.
The dictator (who could also be known as magister populi, or
pedes I.E. Master of Infantry or Foot) would immediately
appointed a magister equitum (Master of Horse) as his
subordinate. The other magistrates of the republic remained in
office but were subject to the dictator.
It must be stressed that this was a temporary office, Roman law
stated that a dictator held his post for six months, but usually
he would retire earlier, as soon as his particular task was done.
This period restriction rendered the office ineffective outside Italy, and
its importance declined in the third century.
Now Dictators were found increasingly appointed for minor
purposes that is holding elections or celebrating festivals.
The finally blow to the office, was when the common view of the
people finally was able by 300 B.C. to subject the dictatorship
to "provacatio" that right every Roman republican citizen enjoyed
to appeal to judgement by jury. Now that the office was mired in
"red tape," unable to make absolute decisions, it quickly
declined.
There was a revival during the second Punic war (Hannibal's
Invasion) and helped save the republic twice during the time,
it was never employed for its original purpose after 216 B.C.E.
Quntius Fabius Maximus being the last Republican Roman dictator.
This was because of growing senatorial jealousy of offices
independent of their authority.
After 202 B.C. even the dictators with limited imperium were no
more appointed. The later dictatorships of L.C. Sulla, G. J.
Caesar contrasted greatly from the original office in influence
and function. These would be best viewed as a Tyranny.
Q. Fabius
Roman Historian
|
| Subject: |
A Single Suggestion and Offer |
| From: |
BenBorgo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:40:57 EDT |
|
Salve,
First of I'd like to say that it is about time that this actions was taken
(ie appointment of a Dictator).
-I would like to offer my assistance in any area of government that desires
it, as I did to Cassius once before. I am very interested in the functioning
of Nova Roma's government and have plenty of time to devote to any tasks the
magistrates may assign. As I've told our former Censor, I am at your disposal.
-I have a simple suggestion as far as the administration goes, increase the
number of members in the Senate. I have heard quite a few citizens complain
about this East Coast 'clique' taking over the government. By appointing
Senators from other provincia of NR, you could dispell any premonition of
this, wether it is accurate or not. There are a few capable and willing
citizens that I am sure would be honored to take a position in the Senate if
it was offered to them. I have also talked with several citizens that see the
Senate as an oligharchy. This idea could be quickly put down by merely
increasing the number of Senators regardless of location. To some citizens it
may seem almost tyrannical to have only five people invested with so much
power over the state(especially when one takes into account the Board of
Directors). In my opinion it would be a good idea to open the Senate to quite
a few new members, possibly doubling their number. I am expressing only what
I and several other citizens have discussed, personally I have had very
little problems with the administration aside from the past few days drama. I
have many more ideas, but we shall leave it at this for the moment. Please
consider this situation.
Most Respectfully,
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Single Suggestion and Offer |
| From: |
BenBorgo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:47:08 EDT |
|
That was supposed to go to Germanicus, sorry.
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:49:43 -0700 |
|
Of course you know the does not resolve the crisis.
Art McGrath wrote:
> From: Art McGrath <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
> The following resolution of the crisis passed the Senate today by a
> majority vote. This was not done lightly but in the knowledge that it is
> the only possible way to keep Nova Roma intact and preserve our system of
> government. A declaration by Flavius Vedius Germanicus, now dictator of
> Nova Roma, will follow shortly. I do not congratulate him for
> accepting this post this, for it is not a moment to celebrate.
>
> "I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma, hereby convene the
> Senate to an emergency session to vote on the following:
>
> 'Whereas the current situation in Nova Roma is intolerable and threatens
> the very existence of Nova Roma both as a nation and as a membership
> organization, and,
>
> "Whereas this crisis, while precipitated by a single incident, has at its
> root many causes that must be addressed so as to avoid any similar
> situations in the future, as well as to ensure the orderly and enjoyable
> continuation of Nova Roma, and,
>
> "Whereas any solution to the present crisis should and must be done in
> accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma,
>
> "Do we, the Senate of Nova Roma, by vote of a majority, hereby appoint
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus to the office of Dictator, and invest in him
> complete authoritas and imperium, trusting him to resolve the present crisis
> and take whatever steps he deems necessary to prevent its recurrence in the
> future."
>
> In the name of the Senate and People of the New Rome,
> And in the sight of the Gods,
>
> Signed,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma'
from the Constitution of Nova Roma:
Artc. II, Sect 4.
4.Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked, with no refunding of taxes or other fees
heretofore paid, through one of several
means, all of which may be appealed to the Comitia Centuriata if desired:
1.By Senatus consulta;
2.Through the judgment of a magistrate, after a trial in accordance with the leges
Novae Romae in which the
individual has been found guilty of a crime that warrants such punishment; and,
3.Through the summary judgement of a magistrate, after having been witnessed
committing a felony (as defined by
the civil authority) by that magistrate at an event sponsored by Nova Roma.
Artc. III, Sect 9.
9.In times of emergency, as determined by the Senate, a Dictator may be appointed by the
Senate, to serve for a term not
to exceed that of the emergency, not to exceed six months. The dictator shall
function as the supreme magistrate and not
be subject to veto or recall by the Senate, and shall hold imperium. After his or her
term of office has expired, the
actions of the Dictator will be subject to review and final permanent approval by the
Senate and Citizens of Nova Roma.
Artc. V, Sect 5.
5.The Senate may issue Senatus Consulta upon a majority vote of its quorum. There shall be
no limit on the issues upon
which a Senatus Consultum may be issued, and they may be regarded as the official
statements of the policies of Nova
Roma, but not as law, until and unless they are ratified as such by one of the three
comitia. The various magistrates shall
be charged with the enforcement of the Senatus Consulta as appropriate and practical.
These are parts I found in your constitution that seem to address the issues of the last
several days. If anybody else is aware of appropriate parts of the Nova Roma Constitution
they might post them to the list. It will further the experiment that is being run. I
will allow others to draw their own conclusions. But be careful what you think and say.
Nova Roma is now a Dictatorship. Having said that I will act the free man. Not all of
the citizens of Nova Roma might truly understand this next part, it is part of the
American mythos and psyche, and many Americans don't seem to get it anymore either. Today
is American Independence Day. The Fourth of July. I am profoundly disturbed that
Americans have declared a Dictatorship in a micronation that they set up based on a
republican form of government. Also that most, if not all, of the persons who did this
are veterans of the United States military. Part of the U.S. military oath is vowing to
defend the Constitution against all its enemies foreign and domestic. If they had waited
a few days it would have shown that they possessed Pietas, as well as Prudentia. Waiting
would not have hurt the cyber situation. It might have helped. The Americans have a
three day weekend for their national day this year. Second thoughts during the three
days might have helped Nova Roma. Now those who are away for this weekend will come back
and download their mail and get a big surprise. It would be laughable if it were
happening to a hated enemy.
As for what I am going to do? I've been saying that I would wait to see what develops. I
might still do that. Unless developments continue to go downhill. I will probably
continue to read the list, and even comment from time to time. But the auspices are so
inauspicious that I keep telling myself I would be doing myself and my family a favor if I
just left. I'm not at the point of quitting, yet. But under the form of government Nova
Roma now has I might be spared that decision.
May all our sets of Gods aid you, Flavius Vedius Germanicus.
C. Aelius Ericius
...---... ...---... ...---... ...---...
I sign by the Roman name I have been using for about thirty years now.
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Statement |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:01:34 -0400 |
|
Salve,
> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>
> Salvete, Quirites.
>
> Not knowing what further purges Germanicus contemplates, I will make this
> statement before he expels me as well.
I would like to take this opportunity to reassure our esteemed Marcus
Martianus Gangalius that his Citizenship in Nova Roma is quite safe. I did
not "purge" (to use his term) Cincinnatus out of spite or because of
personalities, but because of his actions.
If such was indeed my motive, I would indeed have posted a much longer
proscription list. I would also remind him that he himself retains his
office; I am willing and happy to work with anyone willing to work within
the system to fix the problems besetting our Republic.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator, co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
An open letter to the Dictator |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:00:53 EDT |
|
To Flavius Vedius Germanicus the Dictator
>Therefore, as legally appointed Dictator, I hereby decree:
>
[SNIP]
>
>2) Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who has demonstrated a willingness to
>subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve his desired ends, and as such
>represents a grave threat to the State, is hereby removed from membership in
>the Senate, his Citizenship is hereby revoked, and he is hereby banned from
>re-applying for Citizenship for a period of ten years.
You start out sounding like Sulla (the original) -- all that's lacking is
Cincinnatus' head on a pike! Are we to now endure a reign of virtual
bloodletting?
In what way has Cincinnatus threatened the State or subverted the
Constitution? By asking repeatedly that the Censores perform their
duties? By seeking to have the magistrates force the Censores to perform
their duties?
The State and the Constitution have been most threatened by the
persistent, ongoing failure of the Censores to form the Comitiae called
for by the Constitution.
If this action is justified, there is nothing in the information that has
been made public so far that would justify it.
>Several incidents come to mind. First and most egregious, elections of
>magistrates were held last December in violation of the procedures set forth
>in the Constitution, at the insistence of Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus.
Cincinnatus held no imperium at that time. The Consuls were Marcus
Cassius Julianus and Quintus Caecilius Metellus. How could Cincinnatus be
the one responsible for holding improper elections?
>This same individual most recently attempted to instigate proceedings of
>impeachment against other magistrates. Whether one believes that the Censors
>needed to be removed or not, neither a Consul nor the Senate has the
>authority under our Constitution to undertake such an act.
I, Lucius Sergius Australicus, have also seriously considering bringing
charges to the Praetor Urbanis that the Censores were undermining the
State by failing to constitute the Comitiae. It has been obvious to
everyone with even half a brain that something had to be done. It seems
to me that Cincinnatus deserves honors for having tried to have the
problem corrected. If the Constitution doesn't provide for it, then
what's the solution? Hang Concinnatus?
>I would at this time invite anyone who wishes to please contact me with
>ideas and suggestions regarding solutions to the various problems which
>plague our nation. I need input from all sides on the weighty issues that we
>face. While I may be Dictator, I do not believe that means I must be
>autocratic.
Perhaps the first thing you should do is INFORM THE CITIZENS (apparently
a novel idea in some circles here) of what has happened and why you are
taking the actions you are taking.
The next thing would be to form the tribes and centuries, hold
constitutional elections, and then start patching the holes in the
Constitution.
And just who are the Board of Directors and the officers of the
non-profit legal entity with which Nova Roma is associated? What are its
bylaws? How did it come to be established outside the government?
Obviously somebody there was subverting the State, even if
unintentionally. Who did it?
It's going to be very difficult to make this work as long as we have
nameless people pulling the strings of a puppet government. That has no
resemblance to what Nova Roma is advertised to be.
I was heartened when I read that you had been appointed dictator to
straighten out this mess, Germanicus, but I'm not much encouraged by this
start. I suggest you declare an amnesty for all actions taken in
attempting to keep Nova Roma going in the face of failure of our Censores
to perform the duty of constituting the Comitiae. Hell, include the
Censores in the amnesty, too. We don't need to be exiling and driving
away good people either because they were not up to the tasks given them
or because they made honorable attempts to fix the mess. You need to pull
the Romans together, not splinter them further.
Besides, remember what happened to Cicero after his dictatorship.
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus (now packing for Ostium!)
sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Single Suggestion and Offer |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:05:05 -0400 |
|
Salve,
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------;
>
> -I have a simple suggestion as far as the administration goes, increase
the
> number of members in the Senate.
<snip>
> In my opinion it would be a good idea to open the Senate to quite
> a few new members, possibly doubling their number. I am expressing only
what
> I and several other citizens have discussed, personally I have had very
> little problems with the administration aside from the past few days
drama.
This is a wonderful idea, and one that I had already, in fact, been
considering (indeed, I've already approached one or two candidates with the
idea).
Thanks for your help and your offer of more help; it's most appreciated!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator, Senator, co-Founder
|
| Subject: |
Dictatorship-a blessing or a curse |
| From: |
BenBorgo@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:05:14 EDT |
|
Salvete,
I would like to say a few breif words regarding the dictatorship in general.
First of all it is not automatically a bad thing that one man has near
complete control of the government, it is far easier to accomplish certain
tasks when there is only one voice speaking. Yes this can be a bad thing as
well, but it was seen by our ancestors as the absolute best way to deal with
a crisis, and I agree. A dictator will step in, fix things the way he feels
they need to be fixed, and step out. We may not agree with all of his
decisions (ie revocation of L.Equitius' citizenship) but they are his
decisions nonetheless. This particular dictatorship can shatter the thin pane
that remains of our Republic, or it can polish it up so as to make it shine
as never before. This may just be the best thing that has happened to the
Republic, and it yet may be the worst. Whatever the case the situation
obviously called for the appointment of a dictator(I was surprised this
hadn't happened sooner, in my opinion it should have been done a while ago),
and we shall hope the citizen appointed will cure the problems that plague
our Republic. What is done, is legally and constitutionally done, wether we
agree or not. And remember, a dictator only stands for so long, nothing is
ever etched in stone.
Valete,
Caesar
|
| Subject: |
Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:22:00 -0700 |
|
I put on a partially played audio tape an that song came up. I subscribe to cledonistic
oracles and omens, so I am following up on this one. For you who are not familiar with
the famous Gaul bardess Edith Piaf, the song title in Britannic is No Regrets.
When I first saw Nova Roma advertised I took a look and, basically, jumped in.
I not only found value in the rituals that were posted, I got a JATO pack assist on the
longest straight session of Roman Studies I have done in a long time. And I found where
the lines for the prayers came from. That boost, and the people I have communicated with
in Nova Roma have increased and my knowledge of Roman subjects. I've been turned on to
more fine books than I can afford, much less read. As with all things I study, all this
has given me more insight into the world we live in. I will not take the time, mine or
yours, to dig through all the layers that I've gotten good stuff out of Nova Roma. It has
been 16 months of intense work, and fun. And a roller coaster ride. In honor of Audens
I'll end with an appropriate nautical saying.
"A dead whale of a stove boat."
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
A thought on the open letter to the Dictator by L.Sergius Australicus |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:41:42 -0700 |
|
I. General Amnesty. Declare one. Have the new slate begin with end of the Poplifugi and
the Games of Jove (5 July). This long (or longer) in order to give people coming back to
their puters time for some knee jerk venting.
II. Refusal to Accept Any Resignations. Retroactive to the fasti of Iove Stator (27
July). People who left because of the "problems" to be allowed to take part in the new
start. A day that looks propitious on the Roman calendar for the cut off date for this
part of cleansing the slate would be the 17 July [XVI Kal. Sext.] when the temple of Honos
et Virtus was dedicated. In keeping with Roman tradition no state business should be
conducted on the next day, the anniversary of the defeat at the Alia River by the Gauls,
which led to the fall of the City. This day was considered a black day of ill-omen
through out the Republic and on into the Principate.
C. Aelius Ericius.
(I'll start not posting soon. Really.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: A thought on the open letter to the Dictator by L.Sergius Australicus |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:51:29 -0700 |
|
I humbly agree with our ProPraetor of California. This is a very sensitive
juncture for our Republic. Let milder heads prevail in this. We cannot
afford to lose more talented people! This is the prudent course if our
Republic is to survive!
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 4:41 PM
Subject: [novaroma] A thought on the open letter to the Dictator by
L.Sergius Australicus
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
> I. General Amnesty. Declare one. Have the new slate begin with end of
the Poplifugi and
> the Games of Jove (5 July). This long (or longer) in order to give people
coming back to
> their puters time for some knee jerk venting.
>
> II. Refusal to Accept Any Resignations. Retroactive to the fasti of Iove
Stator (27
> July). People who left because of the "problems" to be allowed to take
part in the new
> start. A day that looks propitious on the Roman calendar for the cut off
date for this
> part of cleansing the slate would be the 17 July [XVI Kal. Sext.] when the
temple of Honos
> et Virtus was dedicated. In keeping with Roman tradition no state
business should be
> conducted on the next day, the anniversary of the defeat at the Alia River
by the Gauls,
> which led to the fall of the City. This day was considered a black day of
ill-omen
> through out the Republic and on into the Principate.
>
> C. Aelius Ericius.
>
> (I'll start not posting soon. Really.)
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Are you? If not, see our homepage for details.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:37:40 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/04/1999 3:02:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a> writes:
<< A declaration by Flavius Vedius Germanicus, now dictator of
Nova Roma, will follow shortly. >>
So now it comes to this? Ok...let's see where this leads.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Statement |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:43:52 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/04/1999 5:14:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes:
<<
1) The results of last December's elections, having been held using illegal
procedures in the first place, are hereby nullified. Protempore magistrates
shall be appointed forthwith, pending the calling of new elections to be
held in accordance with established Constitutional procedures.
2) Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who has demonstrated a willingness to
subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve his desired ends, and as such
represents a grave threat to the State, is hereby removed from membership in
the Senate, his Citizenship is hereby revoked, and he is hereby banned from
re-applying for Citizenship for a period of ten years.
>>
Yep...I was afraid of this. Ok...looks like the games continue. To nullify
the elections from last year and to do away with a citizen who has
contributed to this organization shows seems personal in nature. (we all
know there has been strife between Germanicus and Cincinnatus).
So...I don't know all about you, but I'm going to be contemplating some
things in the next few days.
Don't all hold your breath, ok? Let's see what other responses are
forthcoming.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Appointment of Pro Tempore Magistrates |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:45:33 EDT |
|
In a message dated 07/04/1999 5:51:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes:
<< Quaestor: Marcus Minucius Audens >>
Ummm...Audens is not a citizen anymore. Unless no one told us he came back.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Fw: Agenda from Roman Days Votes |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:15:13 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
>> >"I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma, hereby convene the
>> >Senate to an emergency session to vote on the following:
>> >
>> I, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Consul Novae Romae hereby Veto this
>action!
>
The action of convening the Senate to vote a Dictator.
>As Consul, you do not have the power to veto a Senatus Consultum, nor do you
>have the power to veto an action of your collegate magistrate retroactively.
Where is this retroactive first we have heard of it ToDay... They come like a thief in the night.
>The vote was taken and declared closed when the question was decided by a
>majority.
>
**For those a little slow on the uptake. I have vetoed the calling of the Senate for this vote. ***
For those who wish a Dictator, be careful what you wish for.
Interesting that the only one to hold Consul who was not a "founder" is thrown out.
>> Give us the Tribes you promised and informed us were done!
>>
>> Valete Omnes!
>>
>> BTW Where is the Senate these days or is this Consul not privy to the
>Senate
>> anymore?
>
>It is exactly where it has always been. In fact, you had posted a call for a
>vote there on June 25th (not that I was informed, though I was a Senator).
>Vale,
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Dictator, Senator co-Founder
If you are talking about this vote....
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
To: <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a> <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a>; Decius Iu-------- Palladius <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=014158113165021154015057190036129" >bcatfd@t...</a>; Qui--------s Caecilius Metellus <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=230063178237146031033082190" >fjga@a...</a>; Flavia Claudia Julia--------lt;a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >missmoo--------..</a>; Marcus Cassius Iulia--------<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >Cassius622@a...</a>; Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=045202250078193194170218163036129208" >jkbloch@e...</a>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 9:43 PM
Subject: Agenda from Roman Days Votes
MEETING OF NOVA ROMAN CITIZENS AND MAGISTRATES
XII Junius 2752 (June 12, 1999)
Marietta Mansion, Glenn Dale, Maryland
Salvete, Senatores
Only two items from the agenda of Roman Days need to be voted on by the Senate. I have also post this in the Curia Hostilia. So far, Germanicus and Metellus have not post there. Do either of you not have the password and instructions on how to find it? Also, we have a nice chatroom that has not been used. We should try to find some times when at least a few of us can meet.
Firstly, I would like to convene the Senate to vote on the following proposals.
I. All ELECTED magistrates be given a seat in the Senate, but only those selected by the Senate for full Senator status have a vote and a voice.
(Full Senatores may give permission for "back benchers" to speak with consent of the Consules)or just as easily the full Senator should just post the statement that the 'backbencher' would like to present.
1.L Equitius Cincinnatus votes Yes
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
II. Pursuant to Article V, sec.9 "If any other magistrate should vacate his or her office before the regular end of the term, the Senate shall appoint a magistrate to fill it through the end of the term."
As first runner up, Aedilis Plebis Antonius Gryllus Graecus be appointed to the vacant Tribune Plebis post. We all are familar with him now so we know somewhat how he will behave.
1. L Equitius Cincinnatus votes Yes
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
ITEM:
Marcus Minucius Audens sought to establish as Senate policy a proper response to proposals submitted to it, saying that any Citizen who goes to the trouble of presenting a proposal to the Senate should be told what action was taken. If the proposal did not pass or was not presented, the Citizen should be advised what changes would make it acceptable.
Once the Comitiae are set up any proposal will be brought to the vote by either the Consules, Praetores Urbani or Tribunes Plebes.
ITEM:
Organizing the Tribes and Comitiae
After some discussion, it was agreed that this is properly the job of the Censors. Marcus Cassius Julianus noted that his fellow Censor, Decius Iunius Palladius, had proposed a system which Cassius thought would work. Patricia Cassia pointed out that if he and Palladius agreed on a system, they did not need approval from the Senate or the Citizens to implement it.
Valete, Consul Lucius Equitius
.....you sure were notified. This is the Last item I convened the Senate for and It was not announced until the June 28, Giving you and Metetelus time to vote, as you never have bothered to respond to the last few votes we had I was asked to go on and announce it.
So I'm calling you a Liar, Germanicus.
|
| Subject: |
LOL!!! |
| From: |
"Rusticus" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:41:23 -0400 |
|
Oho, man! You all are pretty well screwed. :p
Really, this was a magnificent finale... much better than the cheesy
fireworks show I just attended.
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:20:29 -0500 |
|
On 4 Jul 99, at 16:14, Lucius wrote:
> BTW Where is the Senate these days or is this Consul not privy to the
> Senate anymore?
Where HAS the Senate been?
I already KNOW citizens have no say!
Crys (good thing I already KNOW how to shuffle and smile <G>)
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil
ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:22:50 -0700 |
|
Well according to the Website there are only 4 Senators now.....Germy,
Cassius, Metellus (has anyone seen or heard from him?) and Palladius.
Pratically the same people who shut down NR, it seems....
L. Cornelius Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Don and Crys Meaker &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] A Dictator is Appointed, A Resolution to the Crisis
> From: "Don and Crys Meaker" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a>
>
> On 4 Jul 99, at 16:14, Lucius wrote:
>
> > BTW Where is the Senate these days or is this Consul not privy to the
> > Senate anymore?
>
> Where HAS the Senate been?
>
> I already KNOW citizens have no say!
>
> Crys (good thing I already KNOW how to shuffle and smile <G>)
> Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
>
> Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach
the ways of peace.
> Virgil
>
> ICQ# 38493770
> <a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected.
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Join a new list today!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Question |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:03:38 -0700 |
|
Salve Omnes...
Dictator Germanicus, I have a question for you. Since you have decreed that the Elections were invalid becuase of the voting.....are the previous Senatus Consulta null and void becuase they were done the very same way? As a governmental magistrate I am curious. If you recall during this very debate that was one of the questions I asked you? Because the voting was done the very same way. i.e. one person one vote. Your invalidating the elections opens up some serious questions regarding the past Senatus Consultas and their force of law.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
|
| Subject: |
The Gods speak |
| From: |
Patrick Dunn <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166192084017233015199190036129" >saevvs@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 21:31:59 PDT |
|
Germanice:
Nova Roma can only survive if you are steadfast and honorable. Do not
explain your actions, or apologize for them. You must do what must be done,
and the gods guide you.
You shall take into consideration the following: Nova Roma cannot long
endure without two consuls. You know the man you must place upon that seat;
the sooner you do it, the better, even if it pains you to do so.
Also: The full constitution must be put into effect as soon as possible.
Before you withdraw from your office, you must provide for and organize the
offices of our constitution. This might mean undertaking a task painful to
you, but do not hesitate to act.
--M. Gladius Saevus, Augur, Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
New Member and Thoughts |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:52:58 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete, omnes!
I was officially accepted into Nova Roma a little over a week ago.
My name is Gaius Cordius Symmachus, and I was very graciously accepted
into gens Cordia by Numerius Cordius Paulus. I finished a double major in
Computer Science and German in 1996, and I'm about to finish up a Classics
degree at the University of Arkansas this Fall. After this I plan on
working on a master's degree in Comparative Literature with Latin and
German Literature as my areas of concentration. I've owned a
successful small computer consulting business for a little over a year.
I've been active with a neo-pagan group in Fayetteville since 1993.
I've been receiving _The Eagle_ since November, and I've been
trying (almost hopelessly) to follow the political discussions on this
list for the last month or so. After reviewing the Nova Roma website and
the old copies of _The Eagle_, I feel that Nova Roma certainly still has
very much of value worth preserving. Since I am self-employed, and I
typically don't take too many hours per semester at school, I'll be happy
to help in any capacity that I can in my extra time to help bring
stability to Nova Roma. If there are religious or politiical vacancies
that need to be filled I'll be happy to help out. Although I would much
prefer to serve in a religious position, I can take a political position
if it cannot be otherwise filled.
I've also started a page helping neo-pagans learn classical and
foreign languages through pagan hymns, if anyone is interested in seeing
it or contributing. It is at <a href="http://alumni.uark.edu/~ckieffer/hymns.htm" target="_top" >http://alumni.uark.edu/~ckieffer/hymns.htm</a>
I'll have "Pervigilium Veneris" and the praise section to Isis from
_The Golden Ass_ up on the page in the next week or two hopefully.
Hopefully, we can all work together to try to bring stability and
strength to Nova Roma. Di vos ament!
Bene valete!
Gaius Cordius Symmachus
|
| Subject: |
Tribe XVIII, Papiria: America Boreoccidentalis (Northwest America), |
| From: |
william wheeler wuffa@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:06:51 +0100 |
|
Salve
so Flavius Vedius Germanicus
if you have Civii lists with you are there ANY other Civii
in Tribe XVIII, Papiria: America Boreoccidentalis (Northwest America),
other then MOI? and or Any civii out here in the PNW
now that we are a Tribe lets get to know each other.
Not that I mind but as you have set this up
some Genii ( Cornelius, all the genii starting with the Letter E etc..)
same to have a lot of Tribei that they will OWN out right and
I would guess vote as ONE
I would think you would want to have a genii only in one tribe
other then give a few Genii a lot of the tribe
I am talking about this now before the seting of the tribe become a
thing of just a few genii and other genii locked out of the voteing
and no I do not know how to fix it other then the way you are doing it.
Vale
|
| Subject: |
Let me try this again |
| From: |
william wheeler wuffa@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:10:54 +0100 |
|
Salve Honored Dictator!
What I was trying to say was, it appears to me that the current tribes
as
setup now allows too much power to only a few genii, even though one
those is
my particular gens.
We must be careful here. We do not wish to form a new oligarchy, and
have
another war.
Vale
M.Cornelius Felix
|
| Subject: |
oath |
| From: |
william wheeler wuffa@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:24:39 +0100 |
|
I, Marcus Cornelius Felix do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the Honor
of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the People and
Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I Marcus Cornelius Felix swear to do
Honor to the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue
the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Marcus Cornelius Felix further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Quaestor ( am i Pro Tempore or nonei?)
to the best of my
abilities.
On my Honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and
Goddesses of the Roman People and by Their Will and Favor, do I accept
the
position of Quaestor and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities thereto.
so say I Marcus Cornelius Felix
|
